The Notetaking Cold War (2020)(every.to)
every.to
The Notetaking Cold War (2020)
https://every.to/superorganizers/the-notetaking-cold-war-591898
30 comments
I just add quick notes or clip websites into onenote. Sometimes organized inte notebooks but often not. It's easily searchable. No system, keep it simple.
This whole article ('cold war'?) seems rather long and overwrought.
> The more precisely we know what to use a piece of information for, the more precisely we can organize it.
Well, duh. Notes are the leftovers of, and precursors to, more structured information. The miscellanea. This seems to me to be obvious and unremarkable.
> The more precisely we know what to use a piece of information for, the more precisely we can organize it.
Well, duh. Notes are the leftovers of, and precursors to, more structured information. The miscellanea. This seems to me to be obvious and unremarkable.
I hate the word CRM because it means different things for different people. It can be:
- Sales Pipeline Software
- Customer Service
- Marketing campaign automation software (owned media)
- Centralized Customer Database
If i ask 4 people what CRM is I might get 4 different answers
If i ask 4 people what CRM is I might get 4 different answers
This article is about 20 times as long as it should be.
It's not about hierarchy or flexibility, but the ill-defined nature of what 'notes' are. Ask people to share notes and you'll observe several different types with disparate goals:
1. Shorthand: A memory mechanism to simplify/summarize a complex text.
2. Logbook: Record a series of events which occurred and what order.
3. Planner: Todo lists, upcoming meetings, due dates.
4. Whiteboard: A worksheet for working through a complex problem.
5. Time-capsule: Long term memory about why we decided to do [thing].
If you take someone who treats notes like a Whiteboard and try to sell them a system which looks like a Logbook, they will think it makes no sense.
1. Shorthand: A memory mechanism to simplify/summarize a complex text.
2. Logbook: Record a series of events which occurred and what order.
3. Planner: Todo lists, upcoming meetings, due dates.
4. Whiteboard: A worksheet for working through a complex problem.
5. Time-capsule: Long term memory about why we decided to do [thing].
If you take someone who treats notes like a Whiteboard and try to sell them a system which looks like a Logbook, they will think it makes no sense.
Hmm, can I subscribe to a newsletter about this SLoPWiT technique you've just invented?
Off topic, but what is SLoPWit? You're comment is the top hit for this on Google with no other helpful results
Sibling response is correct, just a silly acronym summarizing parent's off-the-cuff list of note types.
I meant it as a joke, in comparison to e.g. PARA or LATCH systems. The funny thing is, listing out all the different types feels much more useful to me than any other "note taking system" idea. It would lead you to design different UIs and workflows, depending on the type you're currently working with. I use several of them, sometimes via different tools. Being more aware of and explicit about the types seems like a good thing.
I meant it as a joke, in comparison to e.g. PARA or LATCH systems. The funny thing is, listing out all the different types feels much more useful to me than any other "note taking system" idea. It would lead you to design different UIs and workflows, depending on the type you're currently working with. I use several of them, sometimes via different tools. Being more aware of and explicit about the types seems like a good thing.
It’s the first letter of each of the bullets in the list of note styles above.
This is a nice explanation and definition. Now, I realize I’m multiple of them and like to use different medium for these types.
As a “Planner”, I default to digital notebooks and uses the tools such as Apple Notes, Obsidian, Sublime Text to write.
I also love recording memories as part of my “Time-Capsule” and are more structured. They are in Markdown and I use iA Writer, Obsidian, or Sublime Text to write it.
While in a meeting, thinking, scribbling, I turn on my “Whiteboard” on a physical Notebook and use a pen to write it. The additional thing I do is if I have a to-do in my mind and need to write it down, I start from the end of the Notebook. So, in a typical 200-odd paged Notebook, the last 4-5 pages are filled up with check-box TO-DOs. At the end of most meetings that I attend, people usually take pictures of my Notebook.
As a “Planner”, I default to digital notebooks and uses the tools such as Apple Notes, Obsidian, Sublime Text to write.
I also love recording memories as part of my “Time-Capsule” and are more structured. They are in Markdown and I use iA Writer, Obsidian, or Sublime Text to write it.
While in a meeting, thinking, scribbling, I turn on my “Whiteboard” on a physical Notebook and use a pen to write it. The additional thing I do is if I have a to-do in my mind and need to write it down, I start from the end of the Notebook. So, in a typical 200-odd paged Notebook, the last 4-5 pages are filled up with check-box TO-DOs. At the end of most meetings that I attend, people usually take pictures of my Notebook.
I like this comment. Thank you.
Think your list is comprehensive, or is it just an off-the-cuff summary? I mean, the full list must be a pretty good start to making actually decent notes-software.
Think your list is comprehensive, or is it just an off-the-cuff summary? I mean, the full list must be a pretty good start to making actually decent notes-software.
Off-the-cuff; there are certainly more categories.
Notes related behavior is a good place to find ideas, but not a good goal itself. 'Notes' is where information lands which isn't being specifically captured. Looking at your organization's notes will draw the outline of the system which isn't present, what feature the present system is missing, or what training doesn't cover.
Notes related behavior is a good place to find ideas, but not a good goal itself. 'Notes' is where information lands which isn't being specifically captured. Looking at your organization's notes will draw the outline of the system which isn't present, what feature the present system is missing, or what training doesn't cover.
Is this a new number, or is it 3a?
Drafts for blog posts; ideas for YouTube videos; half-formed notions which might one day make a good speech in Toastmasters.
Drafts for blog posts; ideas for YouTube videos; half-formed notions which might one day make a good speech in Toastmasters.
I always have a dumping ground of uncategorized piecemeal notes in whatever note-taker I'm using at the time which I usually call the 'heap' (like a heap of dirty laundry)
Anyone who says X must be done in Y way is most absolutely wrong. Who is Tiago Forte to tell how I should organize my thoughts? Am I a robot to follow so simply in the footsteps of another? I would like a more general approach, please.
Any serious note taker eventually realizes that the way their brain works doesn't really fit into any PARA, ARPA or any other standarized system.
Note taking is a messy business. It's not supposed to be organized because you take notes to become more organized, not to organize more notes.
Just take your notes.
Organization will automatically happen. Humans are very bad at doing things randomly. There's always an order, a sequence, a method to the way we do things. Who's to say your method is better than mine?
Any serious note taker eventually realizes that the way their brain works doesn't really fit into any PARA, ARPA or any other standarized system.
Note taking is a messy business. It's not supposed to be organized because you take notes to become more organized, not to organize more notes.
Just take your notes.
Organization will automatically happen. Humans are very bad at doing things randomly. There's always an order, a sequence, a method to the way we do things. Who's to say your method is better than mine?
> Organization will automatically happen.
People will surely, as you say, adopt certain habits, e.g. ordering notes chronologically for lack of a better idea.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a "best" system, which anyone who wants to be productive should adopt. But what I regret is dogmatism unsupported by empirical evidence of superiority (=unscientific claims), and the world of productivity systems (including note-taking) is full of that.
Notes may contain ideas that need to be captured so that they aren't forgotten. Notes may contain event logs that need to be capture to verify later what actually happened (or not). Notes may contain task lists, potentially with commitments and/or assignees and associated promised completion dates. (Many notes can be repurposed later: an informal list of things may become a list of chapter titles in a book one day - I guess that view makes me a pragmatist [pragmaticist, more precisely, c.f. Pierce], maybe not surprising for a student[yours truly] of a student[Spärck-Jones] of a student[Masterman] of Wittgenstein).
The good thing about computers as tools that support our personal knowledge management is that we do not need to worry that much about the organization compared to e.g. a paper-based system, because we can always fulltext-index everything, so at least there is a high chance of re-finding things (known item search) at least as long as we give things specific names or we can recall sets of keywords we likely used in describing something.
EDIT: PS: My personal note on note-taking is that indexed plain text beats any particular software anytime - because notes (any data, really) live longer than the note taking software of the day, so you don't want lock in.
People will surely, as you say, adopt certain habits, e.g. ordering notes chronologically for lack of a better idea.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a "best" system, which anyone who wants to be productive should adopt. But what I regret is dogmatism unsupported by empirical evidence of superiority (=unscientific claims), and the world of productivity systems (including note-taking) is full of that.
Notes may contain ideas that need to be captured so that they aren't forgotten. Notes may contain event logs that need to be capture to verify later what actually happened (or not). Notes may contain task lists, potentially with commitments and/or assignees and associated promised completion dates. (Many notes can be repurposed later: an informal list of things may become a list of chapter titles in a book one day - I guess that view makes me a pragmatist [pragmaticist, more precisely, c.f. Pierce], maybe not surprising for a student[yours truly] of a student[Spärck-Jones] of a student[Masterman] of Wittgenstein).
The good thing about computers as tools that support our personal knowledge management is that we do not need to worry that much about the organization compared to e.g. a paper-based system, because we can always fulltext-index everything, so at least there is a high chance of re-finding things (known item search) at least as long as we give things specific names or we can recall sets of keywords we likely used in describing something.
EDIT: PS: My personal note on note-taking is that indexed plain text beats any particular software anytime - because notes (any data, really) live longer than the note taking software of the day, so you don't want lock in.
Humans will try to dogmatize anything. And overcomplicate everything.
I’m gonna write a streamlined program to uncomplicated it, just you wait.
I use both with Org-mode, except my R=refile and is my org-roam directory.
Some notes have a known place in a system from the start. Some need to wait for connections.
Some notes have a known place in a system from the start. Some need to wait for connections.
I am not convinced of the premise this subculture takes as its point of departure: that a single piece of software can be written, or a single process developed, that improves upon a wide range of established and purpose-built note-taking systems.
There is a craving for generality here that I suspect is rooted in an investor narrative - "the total addressable market of a good note-taking app is huge!" - rather than a good faith effort to solve the particular problems of particular users.
There is a craving for generality here that I suspect is rooted in an investor narrative - "the total addressable market of a good note-taking app is huge!" - rather than a good faith effort to solve the particular problems of particular users.
the most capable minds in computing are working in advertising or the allied trades.
The notion of a universal canvas which can host multiple content types and allow the creation of new modes of interaction is the holy grail of this sort of thing, but the common platforms today are not free-form enough to accommodate this.
The notion of a universal canvas which can host multiple content types and allow the creation of new modes of interaction is the holy grail of this sort of thing, but the common platforms today are not free-form enough to accommodate this.
So to settle the issue, we should be like Mother Russia, and keep notes in our mind like on the back of one enormous envelope.
Presumably related ongoing thread:
Note-taking apps are designed for storage, not insight – can AI change that? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37262265 - Aug 2023 (72 comments)
Note-taking apps are designed for storage, not insight – can AI change that? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37262265 - Aug 2023 (72 comments)
This person doesn’t understand CRMs.
I take notes in no particular order, but i give an estimate on the effort it would take to solve the tasks, and depending on the time of the day I reorder them (i save them on redmine), when I wake up and have enough brain power, I work on the ones which require the most efforts, then when I see brain power go away I reorder them in the opposite direction.
It’s another reason I don’t like to set effortless meetings like standup in the morning, because they occupy an important spot in the day where I could use energy to do something more meaningful
(I am not sure if it's relevant, but I processed the information this way because I classify the notes regarding tasks I need to do, otherwise notes are only organised by topic, and I don't see how else would it be meaningful to classify them)
It’s another reason I don’t like to set effortless meetings like standup in the morning, because they occupy an important spot in the day where I could use energy to do something more meaningful
(I am not sure if it's relevant, but I processed the information this way because I classify the notes regarding tasks I need to do, otherwise notes are only organised by topic, and I don't see how else would it be meaningful to classify them)
I think if you've spent more than 2 full weeks trying to figure out an effective note-taking system, it's time to just design and build out your own. Nothing will ever be more perfect for you than the one you build for yourself. Mine's at https://github.com/gsuuon/note.nvim
I just wanted easy daily task tracking and timestamped notes at first, now I slowly add things to it. I can deep-link to items or sections in other files (even at different commits) and have helpers that effectively exposes an API for my tasks. Everything else is just standard neovim things, like using Telescope for finding labeled items.
I just wanted easy daily task tracking and timestamped notes at first, now I slowly add things to it. I can deep-link to items or sections in other files (even at different commits) and have helpers that effectively exposes an API for my tasks. Everything else is just standard neovim things, like using Telescope for finding labeled items.
To take clothes as analogy: when you buy a shirt off-the-shelf, you can (usually) choose between XXS to XXL. Let's assume you want to wear the shirt for the rest of your life, wouldn't the natural conclusion be: a tailor-made shirt?
The real solution is to take one note taking system as starting point and adapt it to your needs. There is no shortcut, it will take a while till you've figured out what your needs are and how you can adapt the system you chose.