‘Occupied by the US’: wildfires renew Native Hawaiian call for sovereignty(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
‘Occupied by the US’: wildfires renew Native Hawaiian call for sovereignty
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/07/native-hawaiian-sovereignty-maui-wildfires
38 comments
I don't think it should be totally annexed because that changes electoral college issues, but the whole state should be transitioned to a reservation like an Indian reservation. Retain statehood, but also their sovereignty.
Oooor ... just ask them what they want to do. They're standing right there.
Never gonna happen. The US gov't will never willingly cede control of all the testing and missile ranges and the economic/military power projecion the islands provide it.
Frankly, from a realpolitik standpoint, I would be supremely annoyed at the government if it were to allow secession. It's really too valuable of a landmass to let go. Doing so would drastically alter the pacific theater as china continues a military buildup, threatens Taiwan, and manufactures islands in the south china sea.
Frankly, from a realpolitik standpoint, I would be supremely annoyed at the government if it were to allow secession. It's really too valuable of a landmass to let go. Doing so would drastically alter the pacific theater as china continues a military buildup, threatens Taiwan, and manufactures islands in the south china sea.
That's the answer right there: make the deal that they leave but the US maintains a military base. Problem solved.
couldn't maybe carving out the military parts and making the rest one huge reservation work? residents can retain dual citizenship, or however native Americans do things.
As I recall we established a precedent about whether states could leave the union about 160 years ago.
I would argue that we settled a precedent that states could choose to leave unilaterally, not that they could leave at all.
A "precedent"....nice.
The guardian is supporting the creation of an ethno nationalist state of a tiny minority? Wonder what will happen to the vast majority of Hawaiians who don't meet "blood" requirements...
The US government has already decided another $8 billion to Ukraine is more important than helping those in midst of a disaster (See East Palestine)
Hawaii has received and will continue to receive relief.
[1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
[1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
> More than 1,000 Federal personnel are on the ground on Maui
to aid response efforts
How many personnel are dedicated to Ukraine efforts, I wonder?
Honestly not denigrating any efforts anyone is undertaking. Its a natural comparison to make, tho. There could have been troops there cleaning up within hours. There could have been troops there fighting fires when populations were threatened.
The Navy in particular has some assets not far from there.
How many personnel are dedicated to Ukraine efforts, I wonder?
Honestly not denigrating any efforts anyone is undertaking. Its a natural comparison to make, tho. There could have been troops there cleaning up within hours. There could have been troops there fighting fires when populations were threatened.
The Navy in particular has some assets not far from there.
> the Coast Guard and Navy are supporting response and rescue efforts, while the Marines are providing Black Hawk helicopters to fight the fires.
[1] https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2023/08/09/coast-gu...
I understand the impulse to make these comparisons, but it's apple to oranges. 1000 CIA analysts and artilary shells won't help Hawaii. I'm sure more could have been done, but pretending it's nothing also won't help anybody.
[1] https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2023/08/09/coast-gu...
I understand the impulse to make these comparisons, but it's apple to oranges. 1000 CIA analysts and artilary shells won't help Hawaii. I'm sure more could have been done, but pretending it's nothing also won't help anybody.
This was civilian Ukraine yesterday... (nsfw) https://t.me/espresotb/73104
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-blinken-counte...
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-blinken-counte...
I live in the US. Sad but not my problem.
>As disaster capitalists descend on Lahaina, Indigenous Hawaiians fight for self-governance
People have made jokes that Maui would've gotten more Federal aid if it had been a foreign country. Others have said that those people were spreading divisive Russian disinformation.
People have every right to be upset with their governments in this, at all levels. The "highway of death" photos demand answers from local government officials, just to name one example.
People have every right to be upset with their governments in this, at all levels. The "highway of death" photos demand answers from local government officials, just to name one example.
boycotters and agitators are really busy this year.
Sadly, if they secede from the US, foreign capital will still dictate what goes on over there, be it American, Chinese, Japanese or Aussie capital. Their economy is mostly based on tourism --agriculture is small and I don't think becoming a socialist paradise is viable.
Anyhoo, Lahaina people and East Palestine people have received the short shrift from the gov.
Anyhoo, Lahaina people and East Palestine people have received the short shrift from the gov.
There is zero chance Hawaii will be allowed to secede ever. It’s one of the US’s most important military outposts, especially as tensions with China rise.
Agreed. The Hawaiian islands occupy an incredibly strategic position. If Hawaii did somehow secede, they would be utterly unable to defend their sovereignty over the long term.
Some sort of suzerain power arrangement with the US, where the US retains control over foreign policy and responsibility for military defense but the Hawaiian islands are otherwise independent, would make far more sense.
Still, that would also come with serious costs, and US statehood already gives them substantial independence and far more power to direct resources to the islands. I think Hawaiians already have the best deal possible--not perfect, but better than all the alternatives.
Some sort of suzerain power arrangement with the US, where the US retains control over foreign policy and responsibility for military defense but the Hawaiian islands are otherwise independent, would make far more sense.
Still, that would also come with serious costs, and US statehood already gives them substantial independence and far more power to direct resources to the islands. I think Hawaiians already have the best deal possible--not perfect, but better than all the alternatives.
I had some similar conversations with a few Hawaiian natives while there.
In short: you guys had the only good harbor for thousands of miles in any direction, directly on the Asian-North American route. Yes, your islands were flat-out stolen and then systematically raped for resources while your culture was turned into tchotchkes. But you weren't going to be left alone no matter what, so it becomes a matter of who you would rather be ruled by.
In short: you guys had the only good harbor for thousands of miles in any direction, directly on the Asian-North American route. Yes, your islands were flat-out stolen and then systematically raped for resources while your culture was turned into tchotchkes. But you weren't going to be left alone no matter what, so it becomes a matter of who you would rather be ruled by.
Like an Indian reservation? That's what I think would be the best compromise.
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Hawaii without the backing of the United States will be a poor and corrupt hellhole. They need the US more than the US needs them.
Hawaii's problems are mostly self-inflicted. The corrupt and incompetent ruling class encourages all the talk about sovereignty and blaming everything on haoles to prevent anyone from looking too closely at the people that are elected by and for those actually living in Hawaii.
Nobody on the mainland can prevent them from reforming their system of taxation which makes it nearly free to be an absentee landowner while putting almost the entire burden on people living and working on the islands. Will they? Don't hold your breath.
Nobody on the mainland can prevent them from reforming their system of taxation which makes it nearly free to be an absentee landowner while putting almost the entire burden on people living and working on the islands. Will they? Don't hold your breath.
>Nobody on the mainland can prevent them from reforming their system of taxation which makes it nearly free to be an absentee landowner while putting almost the entire burden on people living and working on the islands. Will they? Don't hold your breath.
Nobody on the mainland reforms our equivalently landlord-favoring tax systems!
Nobody on the mainland reforms our equivalently landlord-favoring tax systems!
If you think its bad on the mainland...
While I sympathize with the sentiment, how would this "sovereignty" for Hawaii look like? As far as I could tell, their economy could not function on its own. Go back to hundreds of years ago with no hospitals, etc? Would population appreciate that? With large military bases present, it's a moot point anyway. If a country of Germany's size is not able to function as a sovereign country, what chances Hawaii has?
Something like Indian reservations in America? Still sovereign but still a state?
It doesn’t seem that the reservation model works well at least not when it comes to the welfare of its residents.
Maybe, but it shouldn't be up to the colonizers to determine that on their behalf. If sovereignty leaves them an economic wasteland then maybe they could join the US voluntarily, rather than through a coup organized by a cabal of fruit companies.
Using the term "boomer" means you lost my interest.
Also "literally". You and yours ruined an otherwise useful word. Probably forever. Thanks.
Also "literally". You and yours ruined an otherwise useful word. Probably forever. Thanks.
Don't have a cow, man.
Don't know how it could be untangled now. Like Scotland, not sure modern natives would care about century-old political screwing around.