I rented a Tesla for a month. It was a giant pain in the a*(abc.net.au)
abc.net.au
I rented a Tesla for a month. It was a giant pain in the a*
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-16/rented-a-tesla-for-a-month-experience-opinion-730/102833718
79 comments
I do not drive a car, but I agree, even as a passenger. I think it should have no data sharing at all (it should not connect to the internet, nor any radio communication other than that explicitly selected by the operator (AM and FM radio, receive only, with no software updates)). I also think that many parts should not need computers to operate (including the doors, windows, and lights). Furthermore, they should have manually operable windows. And, the different subsystems (e.g. driving, audio/clock, heating/cooling, etc) should be isolated from each other, to improve security and to allow powering off the subsystems which are not in use. And if you really want a locked glove box then I suppose you could add your own lock. I also don't like touch screens on other computers, whether or not it is in the car. But, at least the electric cars do not have the fuel, noise, exhaust, etc of other cars, so there is one advantage, but that could be done without all of the other problems, I think.
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Elon probably would just say “ok, boomer”
But I’m not sure what 20-somethings can afford his product.
But I’m not sure what 20-somethings can afford his product.
Tech workers. I know a ton of tech people who buy Teslas because it's a status thing and you want to be seen driving the new cool tech.
People coming in green and using a product for the first time are the people you need to listen to the most. "Is this a car or a laptop?" is pretty solid feedback. He thought as a piece of technology, it was full of obscurantism and pretension, which wasn't his style. Complaints like not having a speedometer or turn signals are pretty understandable; the car's a poorly interfaced black box.
That fits what I've heard about Teslas too (I'm going to test drive one this Sunday): they're fast but obnoxious.
That fits what I've heard about Teslas too (I'm going to test drive one this Sunday): they're fast but obnoxious.
to be honest, imo a test drive isn't enough. I test drove a Model 3 (was given 30 minutes), thought it was interesting, and might have considered buying one. A few weeks later I rented a Model Y for 12 days to go on a road trip with my family, and ended up absolutely hating it. And it wasn't because of the charging - that was quite pleasant - it was the constant beeping at me for the way I usually drive. Plus, overall, it just felt cheap, not sure how to describe it. The steering wheel feels too small, can't stand the buttons on the wheel, wish there was a small vibrate motor to tell me I'm going overspeed instead of noise (or nothing). No speed limiter which I find maddening (adaptive cruise control not suitable for city driving!). Basically, now I would never buy one, and the original test drive illuminated nothing
> the constant beeping
... is why I hate renting cars these days. So many pings and you don’t even know why. You try to shut them off through layers of menus and then they go back to defaults the next time you start the car.
Worst is the LDW dinging at you and jerking the wheel. Hyundai and Kia are egregious. F-off!
And the map, reverting to zoomed-in-3D-direction-you’re-headed view after 30 seconds. Excuse me, Chrysler, but some of us understand maps better when they are flat, north is up, and there’s context.
A memorable BMW shouting at me every time I exceeded the speed limit, in Dutch.
The engine eco-shutting-off just when you’re about to dash across an intersection and a truck is coming. NDE.
It used to be fun to try new things, now it’s just a headache.
... is why I hate renting cars these days. So many pings and you don’t even know why. You try to shut them off through layers of menus and then they go back to defaults the next time you start the car.
Worst is the LDW dinging at you and jerking the wheel. Hyundai and Kia are egregious. F-off!
And the map, reverting to zoomed-in-3D-direction-you’re-headed view after 30 seconds. Excuse me, Chrysler, but some of us understand maps better when they are flat, north is up, and there’s context.
A memorable BMW shouting at me every time I exceeded the speed limit, in Dutch.
The engine eco-shutting-off just when you’re about to dash across an intersection and a truck is coming. NDE.
It used to be fun to try new things, now it’s just a headache.
> A memorable BMW shouting at me every time I exceeded the speed limit, in Dutch.
That BMW could have saved you a fine if you had been driving on one of the roads with 'trajectcontrole' [1], a type of entry-to-exit average speed check which is used on a number of roads in the Netherlands as well as in Belgium. This system is based around cameras with number plate readers which are placed on all entries and exits to the roads as well as on the roads themselves which record when you enter and exit a stretch of road, calculate your average speed and send you a fine if that average speed is more than 3 km/h (for speed limits up to 100 km/h) or 3% (above 100 km/h) over the posted speed limit. That posted speed limit varies depending on the day of week and time of day. The limit can also be reduced temporarily which is indicated on matrix signs on portals above the road so I assume those limits are taken into account as well. Suffice to say this system is hard to circumvent and it is very easy to end up getting fined.
[1] https://boetes.nl/trajectcontroles/
That BMW could have saved you a fine if you had been driving on one of the roads with 'trajectcontrole' [1], a type of entry-to-exit average speed check which is used on a number of roads in the Netherlands as well as in Belgium. This system is based around cameras with number plate readers which are placed on all entries and exits to the roads as well as on the roads themselves which record when you enter and exit a stretch of road, calculate your average speed and send you a fine if that average speed is more than 3 km/h (for speed limits up to 100 km/h) or 3% (above 100 km/h) over the posted speed limit. That posted speed limit varies depending on the day of week and time of day. The limit can also be reduced temporarily which is indicated on matrix signs on portals above the road so I assume those limits are taken into account as well. Suffice to say this system is hard to circumvent and it is very easy to end up getting fined.
[1] https://boetes.nl/trajectcontroles/
Alas, Ik spreek geen, so I got three tickets from the same speed trap outside Amersfoort: rise (not quite a hill, right?), curve, overhanging trees, boom. Damn thing shouted at me all through Belgium and France. No way to shut it off or change languages.
This’ll do for next time - https://www.joeyrent.com/lancia-fulvia-1300-s-rallye
This’ll do for next time - https://www.joeyrent.com/lancia-fulvia-1300-s-rallye
Thought nothing would be crazier than a Y until I got an X5 BMW for a rental. It was even more insane. It has a frantic beep when you open the door to get in or out. It honks because it thinks you’ve left the fob in it. Thanks for waking my neighbors up at 2am.
Replying by point, as I've been driving my 2019 M3 for 4y now:
- agree, rent it for a few days after the test drive, EVs have a different style of driving that might not suit you
- pings in modern cars are everywhere, it's not just Teslas - the way I drive, I very rarely (<2 times/month) get a ping from Forward Collision Warnings, but just because I keep it to "Early", which is the longest triggering distance; otherwise the car is silent (you may be constantly driving too close to other cars?), my father's ID.4 is just as annoying, if not worse
- people call Tesla interior "cheap", when in reality it's just simple and plain but durable, most of the costs of the car are in the battery and powertrain
- Am 1.85m tall at 110kg, steering wheel feels appropriate in size
- On my M3 2019, there's two buttons that have 2 axes (up/down/left/right) and a push
- Overspeed indication can be configured: none/speed limit icon animation/super-annoying bell that scares you every time (I keep it to icon animation)
And, replying to final point, the speed limiter IS the adaptive cruise control, which is perfectly working in cities, esp. in traffic jams. The way it works is to pick the speed limit as ceiling, and adapt the cruise to the traffic and the follow the vehicle in front at the distance that you've set (right wheel button left/right). The distance is adaptive (dist. 7 @ 50 km/h << dist. 7 @ 130 km/h). I usually keep 7 because it reduces the amount of slowdowns when people cut in front, resulting in a smoother ride. I've often seen the complaint that follow distance 7 in US cities is impossible, because everyone would jump in front of you - I'd still not recommend setting 2, it makes for a super-annoying stop-and-go drive.
I have the "bad luck" of living in Switzerland, where speed limits change every 50m: my routine is to use TACC as much as possible, and disengaging it with ample margin (using only regen to break) when coming up to traffic lights/roundabouts/crossings. I don't have to think about speed limits anymore, because TACC does it for me. Only exception is highway drives, where I need to change the speed limit beforehand with the right steering wheel button (or tap on the limit icon).
Hint: you can disengage TACC and/or AP without breaking, just do a quick soft tap-up on the right stalk (like soft-blinker tap).
There are a couple important points about the driving style of an EV, that I feel are not stressed enough:
- you try to regen as much as possible and avoid using breaks to get some energy back (extend the driving range), and you wear down break pads way less than ICE cars
- you don't floor it after every stop, because torque is instant and the engine needs no revving up - if you do this, I guarantee you'll always be running up to the bumper of the vehicle in front of you and having the car scream at you (regardless of the brand)
From my point of view, after 4y, looking also at all the other EVs that followed after Teslas (father has ID.4, mother Peugeot e-208), Tesla has managed to automate mostly-well many aspects of driving while reducing UI complexity (and removing "I have used it once in the lifetime of the car" buttons).
- AC does a good job of keeping the temperature in relation to the outside temp, also selecting the appropriate air flow outlets
- Automated lights off/on/high-beams well enough, that honestly I can't remember the last time I touched the setting, possibly never
- Voice control works decently enough that I can select songs or playlists just by pressing the wheel button (in addition to controlling pretty much all the car features)
- Auto-wipers works well enough for me in >90% conditions, except perhaps hurricane-level thunderstorms in a pitch-black area
- TACC/AP do an excellent job at keeping distance and lane on highways, and they're years better in terms of quality compared to competitors (I wanted for a long time Enhanced AP with lane changes, but after having tested it, I'd rather not; never used FSD, also: Europe)
Considerations about the UI: people keep claiming that they want 200 physical buttons, and that it's dangerous to take your eyes off the road, but:
- the Tesla UI is done well enough that I can adjust my AC faster than my ICE-powered friend can (not that I need it that much, it does a good job)
- my friend still also needs to either look at the AC temp/flow selectors or press a -/+/... button until a display shows what he wants, so it's not like the ICE version is safer than the Tesla in this regard
- I feel the "muscle memory" everybody talks about works for 1/2 HUGE tactible features at most if you only have 1 car available to drive, the rest of stuff you'll still need to look what you're doing regardless (unless you regularly spend >15s counting X buttons from the left of the second row of buttons from the bottom)
- TACC and AP (and safety features worst case) fill in the attention void created by these actions, while the ICEs have none of these available unless they are in the same price range
- VW ID.4 and Peugeot e-208 have archaic OSes that have huge input latency and were designed with automotive in mind BUT NOT REALLY TESTED FOR IT (in general UI interactions are NOT well thought out), while Tesla has a simple settings panel with everything in it, automates most regulations, and it's super-responsive
- VW ID.4 has so many buttons to activate the TACC/AP equivalents, in different modes, that my father after >2y of daily driving still hasn't mastered them, and the steering wheel looks like an Formula 1 steering wheel; compare that to: "single-tap" -> TACC engaged + "double-tap" -> AP engaged
In general, driving for me has become fun again: I don't need to worry about a ton of stuff, and operating the car is WAY easier than manual or even auto transmission.
- agree, rent it for a few days after the test drive, EVs have a different style of driving that might not suit you
- pings in modern cars are everywhere, it's not just Teslas - the way I drive, I very rarely (<2 times/month) get a ping from Forward Collision Warnings, but just because I keep it to "Early", which is the longest triggering distance; otherwise the car is silent (you may be constantly driving too close to other cars?), my father's ID.4 is just as annoying, if not worse
- people call Tesla interior "cheap", when in reality it's just simple and plain but durable, most of the costs of the car are in the battery and powertrain
- Am 1.85m tall at 110kg, steering wheel feels appropriate in size
- On my M3 2019, there's two buttons that have 2 axes (up/down/left/right) and a push
- Overspeed indication can be configured: none/speed limit icon animation/super-annoying bell that scares you every time (I keep it to icon animation)
And, replying to final point, the speed limiter IS the adaptive cruise control, which is perfectly working in cities, esp. in traffic jams. The way it works is to pick the speed limit as ceiling, and adapt the cruise to the traffic and the follow the vehicle in front at the distance that you've set (right wheel button left/right). The distance is adaptive (dist. 7 @ 50 km/h << dist. 7 @ 130 km/h). I usually keep 7 because it reduces the amount of slowdowns when people cut in front, resulting in a smoother ride. I've often seen the complaint that follow distance 7 in US cities is impossible, because everyone would jump in front of you - I'd still not recommend setting 2, it makes for a super-annoying stop-and-go drive.
I have the "bad luck" of living in Switzerland, where speed limits change every 50m: my routine is to use TACC as much as possible, and disengaging it with ample margin (using only regen to break) when coming up to traffic lights/roundabouts/crossings. I don't have to think about speed limits anymore, because TACC does it for me. Only exception is highway drives, where I need to change the speed limit beforehand with the right steering wheel button (or tap on the limit icon).
Hint: you can disengage TACC and/or AP without breaking, just do a quick soft tap-up on the right stalk (like soft-blinker tap).
There are a couple important points about the driving style of an EV, that I feel are not stressed enough:
- you try to regen as much as possible and avoid using breaks to get some energy back (extend the driving range), and you wear down break pads way less than ICE cars
- you don't floor it after every stop, because torque is instant and the engine needs no revving up - if you do this, I guarantee you'll always be running up to the bumper of the vehicle in front of you and having the car scream at you (regardless of the brand)
From my point of view, after 4y, looking also at all the other EVs that followed after Teslas (father has ID.4, mother Peugeot e-208), Tesla has managed to automate mostly-well many aspects of driving while reducing UI complexity (and removing "I have used it once in the lifetime of the car" buttons).
- AC does a good job of keeping the temperature in relation to the outside temp, also selecting the appropriate air flow outlets
- Automated lights off/on/high-beams well enough, that honestly I can't remember the last time I touched the setting, possibly never
- Voice control works decently enough that I can select songs or playlists just by pressing the wheel button (in addition to controlling pretty much all the car features)
- Auto-wipers works well enough for me in >90% conditions, except perhaps hurricane-level thunderstorms in a pitch-black area
- TACC/AP do an excellent job at keeping distance and lane on highways, and they're years better in terms of quality compared to competitors (I wanted for a long time Enhanced AP with lane changes, but after having tested it, I'd rather not; never used FSD, also: Europe)
Considerations about the UI: people keep claiming that they want 200 physical buttons, and that it's dangerous to take your eyes off the road, but:
- the Tesla UI is done well enough that I can adjust my AC faster than my ICE-powered friend can (not that I need it that much, it does a good job)
- my friend still also needs to either look at the AC temp/flow selectors or press a -/+/... button until a display shows what he wants, so it's not like the ICE version is safer than the Tesla in this regard
- I feel the "muscle memory" everybody talks about works for 1/2 HUGE tactible features at most if you only have 1 car available to drive, the rest of stuff you'll still need to look what you're doing regardless (unless you regularly spend >15s counting X buttons from the left of the second row of buttons from the bottom)
- TACC and AP (and safety features worst case) fill in the attention void created by these actions, while the ICEs have none of these available unless they are in the same price range
- VW ID.4 and Peugeot e-208 have archaic OSes that have huge input latency and were designed with automotive in mind BUT NOT REALLY TESTED FOR IT (in general UI interactions are NOT well thought out), while Tesla has a simple settings panel with everything in it, automates most regulations, and it's super-responsive
- VW ID.4 has so many buttons to activate the TACC/AP equivalents, in different modes, that my father after >2y of daily driving still hasn't mastered them, and the steering wheel looks like an Formula 1 steering wheel; compare that to: "single-tap" -> TACC engaged + "double-tap" -> AP engaged
In general, driving for me has become fun again: I don't need to worry about a ton of stuff, and operating the car is WAY easier than manual or even auto transmission.
Thanks for your detailed reply. I am yet to try other EVs other than a Nissan Leaf and an eNV200, but I think both of these fit my driving style a bit more than the MY (I used B mode in other EVs and love regen braking).
Giving credit where it is due, I do agree that the Tesla cruise control is great. I was driving it in Germany and Austria and it maintaining correct speed going down mountains and hills was just chefs-kiss perfect.
But - I think it is not correct to say that you don't need a speed limiter because of TACC or that it can replace a speed limiter. And I believe I got into a good rhythm with the Tesla (with TACC on, hold stick down when approaching a speed change sign, release when I pass it, no beeps of disable/re-enable- although this still causes overspeed alert even if car is slowing to match new speed).
I had the overspeed alert set very strict - which is why it was beeping at me - but without a speed limiter this is the only way to force myself to not go overspeed everytime I accelerate while looking at traffic rather than the speedometer.
Driving in 20kmh areas, TACC didn't switch on for me, and I hated having to re-engage TACC every time I slowed to enter a roundabout. I literally just want to concentrate on driving in these complex suburban situations, but I don't want to have my photo taken by radar, I just want the car to limit my speed, or have the speed available if I really need it suddenly (at the extreme end of the throttle range)
Have you used speed limiters in other vehicles? I know I have driven a Peugeot 2008 which could read speed signs then you could double press a button to set your limiter to that speed.
I want that, but without needing to press a button. I actually want to remap throttle response over the range of the throttle, and have a particular range of the throttle which is "sticky" at the speed limit... like a "gravity well" of throttle range that will maintain the speed limit. Does that make sense?
Giving credit where it is due, I do agree that the Tesla cruise control is great. I was driving it in Germany and Austria and it maintaining correct speed going down mountains and hills was just chefs-kiss perfect.
But - I think it is not correct to say that you don't need a speed limiter because of TACC or that it can replace a speed limiter. And I believe I got into a good rhythm with the Tesla (with TACC on, hold stick down when approaching a speed change sign, release when I pass it, no beeps of disable/re-enable- although this still causes overspeed alert even if car is slowing to match new speed).
I had the overspeed alert set very strict - which is why it was beeping at me - but without a speed limiter this is the only way to force myself to not go overspeed everytime I accelerate while looking at traffic rather than the speedometer.
Driving in 20kmh areas, TACC didn't switch on for me, and I hated having to re-engage TACC every time I slowed to enter a roundabout. I literally just want to concentrate on driving in these complex suburban situations, but I don't want to have my photo taken by radar, I just want the car to limit my speed, or have the speed available if I really need it suddenly (at the extreme end of the throttle range)
Have you used speed limiters in other vehicles? I know I have driven a Peugeot 2008 which could read speed signs then you could double press a button to set your limiter to that speed.
I want that, but without needing to press a button. I actually want to remap throttle response over the range of the throttle, and have a particular range of the throttle which is "sticky" at the speed limit... like a "gravity well" of throttle range that will maintain the speed limit. Does that make sense?
You're welcome, no problem :)
I honestly couldn't tell too much difference between my M3 1-pedal driving (stop mode: Stop) and my father's ID.4 (not sure if it was in B mode). I used to go with Creep mode (Stop mode was introduced sometime in 2020 IIRC), then I tried Stop and fell in love with it, it provides max regen and auto-engages breaks when close to standstill.
As for the overspeed, on highways, I usually ensure there's enough space in the passing lane, I change lane and let it accelerate without pushing it myself (or give it a small nudge without disengaging). I literally just discovered that AP also has "Overtake acceleration", which I never knew existed or used ( https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/2017_2023_model3/en_eu/GU... ). On city streets, I let TACC run at 50km/h or 30km/h, so I usually go for the accelerator only to navigate in/out of turns.
You can switch on TACC at <30km/h if you have visible traffic ahead of you more than 1.5m apart, so unless you're driving at night with nobody around you should be able to enable it also at 20km/h.
TBH though after 4y I also developed a feeling for city-speeds, so I rarely overspeed, even accidentally. The small price to pay is that I really have to use feather-weight on the accelerator and it's not always easy (esp. if you're physically tired).
As I read your post I realized what you really want: power cut-off at set speed ("do not push over X") with override option. Throttle remapping sounds cool, but I'm not sure anybody implements it like that. AFAIK Tesla does not have that on any model, agreed.
I honestly couldn't tell too much difference between my M3 1-pedal driving (stop mode: Stop) and my father's ID.4 (not sure if it was in B mode). I used to go with Creep mode (Stop mode was introduced sometime in 2020 IIRC), then I tried Stop and fell in love with it, it provides max regen and auto-engages breaks when close to standstill.
As for the overspeed, on highways, I usually ensure there's enough space in the passing lane, I change lane and let it accelerate without pushing it myself (or give it a small nudge without disengaging). I literally just discovered that AP also has "Overtake acceleration", which I never knew existed or used ( https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/2017_2023_model3/en_eu/GU... ). On city streets, I let TACC run at 50km/h or 30km/h, so I usually go for the accelerator only to navigate in/out of turns.
You can switch on TACC at <30km/h if you have visible traffic ahead of you more than 1.5m apart, so unless you're driving at night with nobody around you should be able to enable it also at 20km/h.
TBH though after 4y I also developed a feeling for city-speeds, so I rarely overspeed, even accidentally. The small price to pay is that I really have to use feather-weight on the accelerator and it's not always easy (esp. if you're physically tired).
As I read your post I realized what you really want: power cut-off at set speed ("do not push over X") with override option. Throttle remapping sounds cool, but I'm not sure anybody implements it like that. AFAIK Tesla does not have that on any model, agreed.
If the car was "constantly beeping", you were either not wearing your seat belt (unlikely), speeding with speed limit warnings turned on (though there are plenty of mapped areas that have outdated speed limits and no updated signs on the road to replace them), or approaching stopped cars way too quickly, triggering forward collision warnings.
I'd say it's pretty crappy ui if a new user can't immediately identify what's causing the beeping. If I'm in car going highway speeds and it starts yelling at me not knowing what to do will result in a more dangerous situation.
IMO, many of the people using Teslas for the first time will complain that it doesn't have the same controls as their "traditional" car.
This can still be good feedback, but the thing to note about Tesla is that their design philosophy is to make the car as simple and evolvable as possible.
Cameras instead of sensors. Software instead of buttons. That sort of thing. This way, you don't have to buy a car every three years to get what should be basic usability improvements (like better rain sensing).
This doesn't translate to "simple to use" immediately, but I've found that it eventually does if you're willing to try a new approach. To wit, I find non-Teslas complicated and incredibly obnoxious by comparison.
This can still be good feedback, but the thing to note about Tesla is that their design philosophy is to make the car as simple and evolvable as possible.
Cameras instead of sensors. Software instead of buttons. That sort of thing. This way, you don't have to buy a car every three years to get what should be basic usability improvements (like better rain sensing).
This doesn't translate to "simple to use" immediately, but I've found that it eventually does if you're willing to try a new approach. To wit, I find non-Teslas complicated and incredibly obnoxious by comparison.
> but the thing to note about Tesla is that their design philosophy is to make the car as simple and evolvable as possible.
Like having a leaver on doors, which in ALL cars open the doors, but in Tesla it might also break the window glass, because some utter genius decided to make this "Emergency release" and normal opening is via button...
Like having a leaver on doors, which in ALL cars open the doors, but in Tesla it might also break the window glass, because some utter genius decided to make this "Emergency release" and normal opening is via button...
> obscurantism
damn thats a good word. I have known a lot of people like this, and they are really unpleasant to be around. I prefer the free flow of information and ideas.
damn thats a good word. I have known a lot of people like this, and they are really unpleasant to be around. I prefer the free flow of information and ideas.
>>obscurantism
Eschew obfuscation!
Eschew obfuscation!
To an extent.
Entrenched usage patterns sometimes deserve to be broken, bringing in a new method of operation facilitated by new tech can be a game changer.
I’m not in a position to say if this is the case here though, but for one example, a Tesla’s ability to cancel indicators once it’s seen you’ve completed a lane change operation seems to be a step forward. So at least they’re thinking of new methods of operation.
Change is uncomfortable, everyone will be somewhere on the curve, depending on where you are, you might love it or hate it.
Entrenched usage patterns sometimes deserve to be broken, bringing in a new method of operation facilitated by new tech can be a game changer.
I’m not in a position to say if this is the case here though, but for one example, a Tesla’s ability to cancel indicators once it’s seen you’ve completed a lane change operation seems to be a step forward. So at least they’re thinking of new methods of operation.
Change is uncomfortable, everyone will be somewhere on the curve, depending on where you are, you might love it or hate it.
>Tesla’s ability to cancel indicators once it’s seen you’ve completed a lane change operation seems to be a step forward
That already exists. It's called "tap to pass." Tap down the left stalk but don't let it indent, and then it'll flash three to five times (depending on manufacturer) before resetting. Even then most modern steering wheels have speed sensitive systems that let you just bip the wheel right or left to turn off the turn signal at highway speeds without a full quarter rotation of the wheel.
That already exists. It's called "tap to pass." Tap down the left stalk but don't let it indent, and then it'll flash three to five times (depending on manufacturer) before resetting. Even then most modern steering wheels have speed sensitive systems that let you just bip the wheel right or left to turn off the turn signal at highway speeds without a full quarter rotation of the wheel.
There are two things going on here:
* The author seems to be a bit older * The author drives an older car at home
As a younger person who drives an old car, I too had to spend some time reading the car manual to figure out how to adjust things like automated breaking and steering assist when I rented a new model Camry on a trip earlier this year. The Tesla likely has even more features, but the idea that you can just jump in to a brand new car and understand everything about how to use it seems far fetched.
Couple that with someone who is older and perhaps doesn't have as much intuition for digital user interfaces and you get what's in the article.
* The author seems to be a bit older * The author drives an older car at home
As a younger person who drives an old car, I too had to spend some time reading the car manual to figure out how to adjust things like automated breaking and steering assist when I rented a new model Camry on a trip earlier this year. The Tesla likely has even more features, but the idea that you can just jump in to a brand new car and understand everything about how to use it seems far fetched.
Couple that with someone who is older and perhaps doesn't have as much intuition for digital user interfaces and you get what's in the article.
The safety features like forward emergency braking are relatively new and were forced to market quickly because of regulation. Between 1946 and 2016 the interface for a car was mostly the same, save for Citroen being weird until they were bought by Peugeot, and GM for that brief period in the late '80s where everything had to be a steering wheel "pod." The two biggest changes really were changing the headlight switch from a floor mounted pedal to a button or stalk knob starting in the '50s, and going from keyed ignition to push button start in the 2010s. Otherwise turn signals were on the left stalk and wipers were on the right, gas is on the right, brake center, clutch left, manual was 1,3,2,4,5,R (add or subtract gears as needed) and automatic was P, R, N, D, L, radio controls were left dial was power and volume while right dial was tuning, and the three dials below that controlled interior heat, A/C, and defrost. If you drove a car in 1973 and went into a coma you could wake up and drive a brand new car in 2003 no problems. If you went into a coma in 2003 you wouldn't be able to do the same with a 2023 car.
> The Tesla likely has even more features, but the idea that you can just jump in to a brand new car and understand everything about how to use it seems far fetched.
Tesla's just have terrible UX. Quit making excuses.
I bought a 2021 Range Rover with all the safety features of a Tesla. It has sophisticated software with a big touchscreen but it also has knobs for the normal stuff. I was comfortable using the car immediately and found cool new features for a couple weeks. It was pleasant getting used to it.
Tesla's just have terrible UX. Quit making excuses.
I bought a 2021 Range Rover with all the safety features of a Tesla. It has sophisticated software with a big touchscreen but it also has knobs for the normal stuff. I was comfortable using the car immediately and found cool new features for a couple weeks. It was pleasant getting used to it.
>The author seems to be a bit older * The author drives an older car at home
I mean, given the prices of cars nowadays, I highly suspect that any car buyer is going to be on the older side.
I mean, given the prices of cars nowadays, I highly suspect that any car buyer is going to be on the older side.
When did everybody forget the difference between break and brake?
As an owner of a model Y, I never access the screen for car features except for the glovebox, which I use maybe twice a year, while in park.
I just get in and drive. Everything is automated and set to my preferences when I sit down. It’s frankly crazy how many knobs and buttons I press in my Sante Fe just to back out of the driveway.
Every other complaint is applicable to any modern car, or even decades-old luxury cars for that matter. My 2011 Genesis had mirrors that angled down in reverse, it’s considered a safety feature for kids and animals.
I guess if you care about these issues then don’t get a Tesla, but the notion that you need to fiddle with your car while driving is now foreign to me. Lights, temperature, heated seats, and wipers just do their thing when you expect them to. Turn signals turn off when you finish turning. Any music genre or artist ready at the press of a button on the wheel. I don’t know what else you would do while driving - or why you would want to.
Complaining about the lack of an analog speedometer is something to be said about 1999, not 2023. But what it does say, is that there wasn’t anything more substantive to complain about. In my opinion that speaks volumes about how well the car was designed.
I just get in and drive. Everything is automated and set to my preferences when I sit down. It’s frankly crazy how many knobs and buttons I press in my Sante Fe just to back out of the driveway.
Every other complaint is applicable to any modern car, or even decades-old luxury cars for that matter. My 2011 Genesis had mirrors that angled down in reverse, it’s considered a safety feature for kids and animals.
I guess if you care about these issues then don’t get a Tesla, but the notion that you need to fiddle with your car while driving is now foreign to me. Lights, temperature, heated seats, and wipers just do their thing when you expect them to. Turn signals turn off when you finish turning. Any music genre or artist ready at the press of a button on the wheel. I don’t know what else you would do while driving - or why you would want to.
Complaining about the lack of an analog speedometer is something to be said about 1999, not 2023. But what it does say, is that there wasn’t anything more substantive to complain about. In my opinion that speaks volumes about how well the car was designed.
The author complains about needing to go through on-screen UI to adjust the mirrors. Wait till he finds out that in the newest Tesla Model 3 you have to go on-screen UI to change gears!
If it's like the Smart Shift system in the S and X, the idea here is that the car will figure out when to shift to D and R based on environmental context. This actually worked pretty well when I tried it. The on-screen shift works really well also!
Really there's isn't a stick there? I'm not expecting manual in an electric or most hybrids but how are you supposed to reverse, neutral or park the thing?
Supposedly, the car will correctly guess what gear you want to be in. Most of the time. So for example, if you press brakes to bring the car to a stop while in reverse gear, the car will guess that you want to be in forward gear next. If it doesn't guess correctly, there is on-screen UI to change the gear.
That sounds like a recipe for hitting things by accidentally driving in the wrong direction.
Yes, pretty sure that's what will happen if I am the driver.
Here's a video of this feature in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWdZYqiuecE
Here's a video of this feature in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWdZYqiuecE
Wow! That sounds maddening.
It’s physical buttons on my ICE Honda Passport which is pretty efficient if it’s a fly by wire system anyone. If you want to switch forward gears manually which I rarely do it’s paddle shifters.
> For example, in the default setting for when you reverse, the mirrors tilt to the ground so you can't use them to back up. That's to force you to use the image from the rear camera on the screen.
Huh, didn't realize some people don't like this feature. I have it on my non-EV and it makes parallel and back-in parking much easier.
Huh, didn't realize some people don't like this feature. I have it on my non-EV and it makes parallel and back-in parking much easier.
Yeah, it's to make it easier to see the curb while parking, not to "force you" to do anything.
Incidentally, looking at a side mirror while reversing is an excellent way to run over a child, no matter what kind of car it is.
Incidentally, looking at a side mirror while reversing is an excellent way to run over a child, no matter what kind of car it is.
On my 12 year old car, I manually point my mirrors at the ground when I'm reversing. I thought everybody did this. How else do you align yourself with the parking space?
To see what's behind me, I mostly turn around to look. Too many blind spots to trust a mirror for that. However on newer cars with cameras, I am guessing they offer a less obstructed view.
To see what's behind me, I mostly turn around to look. Too many blind spots to trust a mirror for that. However on newer cars with cameras, I am guessing they offer a less obstructed view.
> On my 12 year old car, I manually point my mirrors at the ground when I'm reversing.
What does this even mean?
What does this even mean?
I don’t think I’ve been in the super high end Tesla but every other one I’ve ridden in felt like an economy car. The seats are terrible and the suspension on those things is an abomination. I also severely dislike all the usual suspects… huge screen, no knobs. It’s like that “safe” spaceship in Futurama. I can understand making a totally utilitarian vehicle but Tesla isn’t in that price bracket. For the price, it should be a lot more comfortable.
I've never driven a Tesla but this description indicates that it would be my dream car.
All the ones I had suck so, so much on the electronics part that it is painful. It is like they were taking people who hate electronics to design it.
I drive 1 year old Toyota RAV4 hybrid. Th screen is so awful I avoid looking at it before Android Auto starts. The features are from the 80's, like if it was a fake vintage car. A 1 year old SUV...
OS on wheels, a dream.
All the ones I had suck so, so much on the electronics part that it is painful. It is like they were taking people who hate electronics to design it.
I drive 1 year old Toyota RAV4 hybrid. Th screen is so awful I avoid looking at it before Android Auto starts. The features are from the 80's, like if it was a fake vintage car. A 1 year old SUV...
OS on wheels, a dream.
This is a rant from a lifelong windows user who got a mac and cries that “things are different here!”:-)
The most hilarious part is “.. driving the car was not a problem”.
His rant is basically - Oh, this is a new place. Why doesn’t it look like the places I already know?!
The most hilarious part is “.. driving the car was not a problem”.
His rant is basically - Oh, this is a new place. Why doesn’t it look like the places I already know?!
I rented a Tesla Model 3 on a recent trip as well. I loved the car, mostly. I loved the instant torque. I loved the one-pedal driving (thanks to regenerative braking). Overall, a fantastic driving experience.
The part I didn't like: I had to have the passenger help when I needed to adjust the AC. Most things need multiple touches on the screen, and given my unfamiliarity with the UI, I needed the passenger to help. If I had time to get familiar with the UI would I be comfortable with it? I am unsure.
Despite this, I considered switching to Tesla. Then I read that in new Tesla 3, they are removing even more physical controls: the turn signal stalk is getting replaced with buttons, and the reverse-gear is now controlled through on-screen UI, so no stalk for that either. This made me change my mind.
Elon Musk's philosophy is "best part is no part", but that doesn't necessarily match my expectations for driving experience.
The part I didn't like: I had to have the passenger help when I needed to adjust the AC. Most things need multiple touches on the screen, and given my unfamiliarity with the UI, I needed the passenger to help. If I had time to get familiar with the UI would I be comfortable with it? I am unsure.
Despite this, I considered switching to Tesla. Then I read that in new Tesla 3, they are removing even more physical controls: the turn signal stalk is getting replaced with buttons, and the reverse-gear is now controlled through on-screen UI, so no stalk for that either. This made me change my mind.
Elon Musk's philosophy is "best part is no part", but that doesn't necessarily match my expectations for driving experience.
In borrowed my sisters for a month when she was away and my car was in the shop.
If you’re not invested (as far as putting $40k) it’s more irritating.
If you’re not invested (as far as putting $40k) it’s more irritating.
Most of the complaints are "it's different" rather than having more substance.
Tesla cars have issues, but not these.
Tesla cars have issues, but not these.
Not having physical buttons for things like windshield wipers, AC, and mirror controls, are very bad UX. Having all of these very important systems on a flat touchscreen require taking your eyes off the road to navigate these features. This is a serious safety hazard caused by Tesla's poor UX.
Wipers and climate are automatic in Teslas. If someone is messing with the mirrors while driving, then I think the five whys lead to careless driving, not a bad UX.
The automatic wipers do not working properly. It’s widely reported everywhere and I experienced myself.
The point is design vs execution. Tesla's goal isn't to put critical controls and displays in an inconvenient or unsafe location; it's to make fewer controls and displays critical, so that drivers can focus on driving.
It's a valid criticism that their execution hasn't completely achieved the goal. But if you think the goal is wrong, then yeah, that's a great reason to avoid Teslas, because they're going to keep removing more and more controls and readouts as they automate them or make them irrelevant.
It's a valid criticism that their execution hasn't completely achieved the goal. But if you think the goal is wrong, then yeah, that's a great reason to avoid Teslas, because they're going to keep removing more and more controls and readouts as they automate them or make them irrelevant.
Adjusting mirrors while in steady highway traffic is the best way to tune out the blind spots.
It's the people who don't know to do this who merge into you because their mirrors aren't adjusted properly making you invisible to them.
It's the people who don't know to do this who merge into you because their mirrors aren't adjusted properly making you invisible to them.
Maybe I'm paranoid about distractions, but my method is to ask one of my kids to walk in a circle around my car while it's parked in the driveway. I'll adjust my mirrors so that the kid is continuously visible, either directly or in a mirror.
This is impractical in cars that don't save driver profiles.
This is impractical in cars that don't save driver profiles.
In my car, the mirror controls are on the door, close to my left hand. It’s a d-pad with an additional switch to choose which mirror. Adjusting the mirror can be done without looking. Only an occasional glance to verify.
I see this argument all the time. Any data to support it? Has AC UI caused many accidents and worsened road safety? Personally I find most physical AC controls in cars awkward to use. At least in Tesla I can set the direction of fans very precisely with a single finger. And forget about it for the rest of my life.
We used to have physical cassette and CD players in every car that required - you won't believe it! - taking your eyes off the road.
We used to have physical cassette and CD players in every car that required - you won't believe it! - taking your eyes off the road.
I adjust fans all the time. Sometimes I want ice cold air blowing in my face. Half an hour later I may be annoyed by that or getting too cold because it's no longer 35C in the car but 23 and the air is making me shiver. Reverse in winter. I want the warm air to blow on me when it's -20C but once it's heated up I don't.
A physical cassette or CD requires no taking your eyes off the road. I'd have a few of those around and would know which one is where and you can switch them by touch without looking. Just like I find buttons on the radio or other controls by feel. I know where things are from easy to find reference points like the edge of the middle concole.
A physical cassette or CD requires no taking your eyes off the road. I'd have a few of those around and would know which one is where and you can switch them by touch without looking. Just like I find buttons on the radio or other controls by feel. I know where things are from easy to find reference points like the edge of the middle concole.
Guess you and I represent the opposite sides of the UX argument. I could never find the CD I wanted to listen to by touch (in a case of about 3 dozen CDs)! Seems like you mastered not only this task but could adjust the entirety of car controls without ever taking your eyes off the road. Which I applaud you for.
It's likely a pointless argument - I prefer a minimal design with as few physical knobs as possible and an intelligent self-adjusting system. Other people prefer more traditional physical controls. Just a matter of preference... I haven't seen any data to suggest that people in Teslas are getting into more accidents than people driving Hondas (in fact, the opposite seems to be true: https://motorandwheels.com/do-tesla-cars-crash-more-often/).
It's likely a pointless argument - I prefer a minimal design with as few physical knobs as possible and an intelligent self-adjusting system. Other people prefer more traditional physical controls. Just a matter of preference... I haven't seen any data to suggest that people in Teslas are getting into more accidents than people driving Hondas (in fact, the opposite seems to be true: https://motorandwheels.com/do-tesla-cars-crash-more-often/).
At 3 dozen I wouldn't find these either. Absolutely agreed. 6 or 8 cassettes in the (waaay back) cassette thingie. So I'd know what was where. Same amount of music but less CDs when it was just regular CDs. And then just one or two MP3 CDs.
Most cars I have been in have abysmal automatic climate controls. Either too hot or too cold. Manual adjustment needed. For that I need knobs. If you give me a car that can actually keep me comfy without needing to adjust things I don't mind not having knobs. Yet to find such a car. Thus I need knobs for that.
For the music definitely need knobs. No car is gonna figure out my mood anytime soon. Thus I need knobs to switch to folder 3 that has my "calm me down music" or folder 5 for "I need Euro Dance now" etc.
Most cars I have been in have abysmal automatic climate controls. Either too hot or too cold. Manual adjustment needed. For that I need knobs. If you give me a car that can actually keep me comfy without needing to adjust things I don't mind not having knobs. Yet to find such a car. Thus I need knobs for that.
For the music definitely need knobs. No car is gonna figure out my mood anytime soon. Thus I need knobs to switch to folder 3 that has my "calm me down music" or folder 5 for "I need Euro Dance now" etc.
Oh I see your point. If I had a car with a horrible climate control precision controlled via a touch display - I would be furious. In my mind I am comparing Tesla's automatic climate control (in my view - excellent) to traditional cars where I had to twist these X/Y joystick-like plastic sticks to turn the fan in the right direction. For me personally - no comparison, Tesla beats that hands down.
If I had my way I'd adjust the vents when I first got into a car and then weld them into place.
Can't you just do it with voice commands?
It’s nonstandard, and less intuitive. So the jump to digital allows for new advanced settings but the default experience is worse (using controls in unfamiliar situations or without taking your eyes off the road)
I complain about tesla a lot but this article simply reads like a complaint from someone that rented an unfamiliar vehicle.
There's a number of interface conventions - especially about really important things - that "legacy" car manufacturers have standardized on but that Tesla jettisons. I frequently rent cars for travel, ride-share, etc., and while there's differences between them all, even if I can't figure out how to sync my phone (say), I can still drive any of them safely and comfortably within a matter of moments. Things like how a turn signal works are baked into my muscle memory. I haven't had the pleasure of driving a Tesla yet but wouldn't be surprised if the change-for-change's-sake is frustrating.
I rented a Volvo S90 to check out their driver assistance, and it was a similar experience after coming from a Tesla. Some of the way things work just didn’t make sense to me, but it wasn’t my car so I wasn’t used to them.
An aside, the Volvo self driving was scary. Not ready for prime time. Surprising given their record for safety
An aside, the Volvo self driving was scary. Not ready for prime time. Surprising given their record for safety
I returned my S90 at the end of a two year lease. The self driving was frightening. It often drifted out of the lines then would jerk back into the lane then disable itself without warning.
Also, the start/stop (or w/e it's called whereby the engine turns off when you stop) was such a jerky experience and sometimes it would turn off before I even came to a complete stop.
The infotainment system was terribly slow and would take almost a minute after starting for it to become responsive. Typing into the nav was especially sluggish and unintuitive. One time the AC crashed (not the HVAC unit, the computer module) and I had to take it in for a software update to fix.
The luxury, look and feel, and comfort were fabulous! The drivetrain and tech were trash!
Also, the start/stop (or w/e it's called whereby the engine turns off when you stop) was such a jerky experience and sometimes it would turn off before I even came to a complete stop.
The infotainment system was terribly slow and would take almost a minute after starting for it to become responsive. Typing into the nav was especially sluggish and unintuitive. One time the AC crashed (not the HVAC unit, the computer module) and I had to take it in for a software update to fix.
The luxury, look and feel, and comfort were fabulous! The drivetrain and tech were trash!
Volvo's been owned by Geely for a few years now, so any weird issues are inherited from them using Geely's home market technology. A lot of Chinese luxury automotive stuff seems to be looks first function second and it's been hitting Volvo hard with the S60 and S90.
I think it can generally be summarized as "In a desire to save costs, Tesla stuffed every single bit of instrumentation and input into a touchscreen. Which sucks."
Trying to operate a touch screen WHILE driving more than "just sucks" it can also be dangerous.
To make it worst the UI isn't very intuitive and is overly complicated
It's not just to cut costs, it also means they can remotely update the interface as new features are introduced or new designs implemented.
Imagine you wake up one day, get into your car and realise that the manufacturer sent technicians overnight who have rearranged buttons on your dashboard, all without your permission.
That’s cool in theory. How is the onboarding for new UI? I already don’t want to learn any new widgets on my phone, let alone a deadly tool like a car.
> they can remotely update the interface as new features are introduced
And take away "features" you have already.
And take away "features" you have already.
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I'm still waiting for the point where EVs become objectively better than ICE cars in terms of range. Until then, I just won't even consider an EV. Like in the article it says it takes 45 minutes to charge even at a supercharger? No thanks. It would be acceptable if the actual range of the car was way ahead of ICE cars, but 450 KM (280 miles) is just not even close to your typical 16 gallon tank at 30 mpg. Other than fast acceleration I just see zero advantages to EVs. Believe me, I'm rooting for battery tech to improve dramatically just as much as anyone else, but after 20+ years of one hype-laden discovery after another with 0 to show for it, my hopes aren't exactly high.
Range anxiety goes away entirely if you have an L2 charger at home.
I plug in at night and wake up with 300mi range in the morning. Way more than I need for every trip save one or two a year
The biggest blockers to EV adoption IMO is all the folk who rent and won’t have access to a home charger.
I plug in at night and wake up with 300mi range in the morning. Way more than I need for every trip save one or two a year
The biggest blockers to EV adoption IMO is all the folk who rent and won’t have access to a home charger.
Yeah, I mean that is a big blocker. Housing is absurdly expensive in the bay area, I'll probably just have to leave eventually since my career has just progressed very averagely.
* Analogue speed indicator. I know EVs do not need tachometers, so mēh, but the speed indication must be an analogue display. The data might be digital but my brain is not.
* Door handles - well duh!
* glove box with a knob (it is not a safe, I do not need a safe in my car, I do not lock my car in normal situations, it is not secure, trying to make it secure is asking your thief to destroy things they leave behind as well as steal the stuff they take away. I learnt that the hard way)
* Data sharing default off. WTF? If you want my data - pay for it!
The user interface of a car has developed over more than a century. Trying to change it all at once is stupid. It is hating your users.
Disrespect for car users like this is not unique to Tesla.