iOS 17 is available today(apple.com)
apple.com
iOS 17 is available today
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/09/ios-17-is-available-today/
391 comments
In conjunction, I would love the ability to have a flag that tells anyone that adds me to their Contacts in iOS to not give my info to any apps. Basically, take me off the share list.
I'm not saying the end-user shouldn't be able to ignore this, but as part of these controls that would be great. I don't need or want a shadow-profile on Clubhouse or anything else.
I'm not saying the end-user shouldn't be able to ignore this, but as part of these controls that would be great. I don't need or want a shadow-profile on Clubhouse or anything else.
This seems like something that would need state-level legislation to get done, but I don't see who'd cough up the money you'd need to buy the politicians necessary to make this happen though.
Absolutely. I'd add that we also need a privacy-preserving way to see that contacts have accounts on a given social app (aka contact matching).
A standard pattern for social apps is to ask for access to your contacts to see if anyone you know is on their app. This is important to creating a healthy and diverse ecosystem of social software, because these apps are really up against the natural network effects of existing offerings.
Contact matching is the best shot app creators have at bootstrapping new social offerings, but right now the experience sucks. Just to see if you like a new social app you have to either a) give up lots of private data in perpetuity to an entity you don't know, or b) have a subpar experience of manually finding people.
One solution may be for Apple to offer an API that helps social apps match users. Apple acts as the escrow system to match contacts so that the apps never have access to private contact data, and the apps just get notice when there's a new contact match to offer the user.
On the user side, the user has a simple privacy setting that says 'find matches once' or 'always look for new matches when app is open'. Users may also toggle whether they wish to be discoverable by others.
In a world with this feature, we get to try new social apps without concern, and apps only have access to an anonymized user ID for our contacts that are also using the app.
A standard pattern for social apps is to ask for access to your contacts to see if anyone you know is on their app. This is important to creating a healthy and diverse ecosystem of social software, because these apps are really up against the natural network effects of existing offerings.
Contact matching is the best shot app creators have at bootstrapping new social offerings, but right now the experience sucks. Just to see if you like a new social app you have to either a) give up lots of private data in perpetuity to an entity you don't know, or b) have a subpar experience of manually finding people.
One solution may be for Apple to offer an API that helps social apps match users. Apple acts as the escrow system to match contacts so that the apps never have access to private contact data, and the apps just get notice when there's a new contact match to offer the user.
On the user side, the user has a simple privacy setting that says 'find matches once' or 'always look for new matches when app is open'. Users may also toggle whether they wish to be discoverable by others.
In a world with this feature, we get to try new social apps without concern, and apps only have access to an anonymized user ID for our contacts that are also using the app.
Hopefully Apple listens and implements something like this. They've already shown that they'll bend to their users even if it means screwing over developers and other large companies. App tracking transparency and precision location [1] come to mind.
[1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/12/ios-14-precise-location/
[1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/12/ios-14-precise-location/
They totally screwed up the location thing to the point of uselessness because they report what the user selects to the app, and scummy apps just disable themselves until you grant the permission they want.
The choice to use a scummy app (and you should know if it's doing this that it's scummy), is still a choice.
The situation is more nuanced than that. For example, I have some security cameras installed around my home where the app has updated itself and now requires continuous precise location tracking. That was not the case when I purchased them and set them up, or I would have returned them and left a bad review. I guess you could say I deserve it for not using hardware based on open standards, but now my only options are to generate masses of ewaste and spend hundreds of dollars more, or just bend over and take it. My OS could work harder to protect me here.
Unfortunately apps which don’t pass the smell test get deleted. Ridiculous requirements such as permanent precise GPS location and access to health and motion and my credit card purchase history are too much man.
It’s not “developers and other large companies”.
Small indie developers are the majority of developers in Apple’s ecosystem. If they are to be screwed over as well (for example, with the upcoming sideloading feature unlocking piracy for everyone), it doesn’t seem fantastic.
Sometimes bending to the user is to the detriment of developers who create the ecosystem your users appreciate in the first place.
Small indie developers are the majority of developers in Apple’s ecosystem. If they are to be screwed over as well (for example, with the upcoming sideloading feature unlocking piracy for everyone), it doesn’t seem fantastic.
Sometimes bending to the user is to the detriment of developers who create the ecosystem your users appreciate in the first place.
Sideloading feature? That's a good thing, users should always be the one in control and the EU will mandate this very soon.
iOS is the singular OS in the world where the user's freedom is curtailed in such a heavy handed manner.
iOS is the singular OS in the world where the user's freedom is curtailed in such a heavy handed manner.
Sideloading is going to eliminate the small indie dev who could make an honest living through the simple model of 1) make software, 2) let the user buy it once and own.
No subscriptions, no servers required to use. It is very rare now. Apple made this ecosystem it possible by being an intermediary between you and your customers, ensuring they do not run cracked versions of your work to save money and rip you off. It would suck to see it go.
Note who lobbied for this law. Not coincidentally, not the companies that actually did the above (selling software to own), just big corps with competing platforms.
No subscriptions, no servers required to use. It is very rare now. Apple made this ecosystem it possible by being an intermediary between you and your customers, ensuring they do not run cracked versions of your work to save money and rip you off. It would suck to see it go.
Note who lobbied for this law. Not coincidentally, not the companies that actually did the above (selling software to own), just big corps with competing platforms.
Nope, there are plenty of other operating systems with user restrictions, feature phones, game consoles, embedded OS.
There are three dominant desktop and two mobile operating systems, only 1 out of those 5 is locked down to where even applications are handcuffed. I'm not talking about embedded industrial systems I'm talking about everyday general purpose devices.
You know this and I know this.
You know this and I know this.
Moving goalposts.
No goalposts have been moved here. Stop playing dumb.
If anything pedantic.
> iOS is the singular OS in the world where the user's freedom is curtailed in such a heavy handed manner.
Pointed out that isn't the case across the planet, moved goalposts to only 5 OSes, ignoring the supposed rest of the world
> There are three dominant desktop and two mobile operating systems...
Apparently the world is too big to make a point.
> iOS is the singular OS in the world where the user's freedom is curtailed in such a heavy handed manner.
Pointed out that isn't the case across the planet, moved goalposts to only 5 OSes, ignoring the supposed rest of the world
> There are three dominant desktop and two mobile operating systems...
Apparently the world is too big to make a point.
Much simpler would simply be the ability to exclude certain contacts (your doctor, therapist, or teacher etc).
Additionally, it would be great to not share metadata about contacts (ie, don't share that I have this person listed as my sister).
It's quite difficult to have a privacy preserving API system that's on-device because people could pre-compute a rainbow table (phone numbers are only 10-ish digits long). If the API is provided by Apple using their servers, this might work.
Additionally, it would be great to not share metadata about contacts (ie, don't share that I have this person listed as my sister).
It's quite difficult to have a privacy preserving API system that's on-device because people could pre-compute a rainbow table (phone numbers are only 10-ish digits long). If the API is provided by Apple using their servers, this might work.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/contactsui/cnconta...
iOS 9.0+. The blunder is Apple not deprecating CNContactStore, but then many apps really only work if they get your full contacts list (e.g. knowing when a friend joins Snapchat)
iOS 9.0+. The blunder is Apple not deprecating CNContactStore, but then many apps really only work if they get your full contacts list (e.g. knowing when a friend joins Snapchat)
> many apps really only work if they get your full contacts list
Too bad for those apps. They should be able to work whether I have 1000 contacts, 0 contacts, or any number in between.
If they want to have a cool feature like alerting me when a friend joins, they are more than welcome to persuade me to provide my full contacts list so I get the most out of a feature.
Too bad for those apps. They should be able to work whether I have 1000 contacts, 0 contacts, or any number in between.
If they want to have a cool feature like alerting me when a friend joins, they are more than welcome to persuade me to provide my full contacts list so I get the most out of a feature.
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> many apps really only work if they get your full contacts list (e.g. knowing when a friend joins Snapchat)
Offering a privacy-preserving alternative to that would be a huge iOS feature. It seems like Apple even already has most of the necessary pieces for that in place (e.g. the contacts app already knows whether my contacts have FaceTime enabled, Messages knows who has iMessage etc.)
Offering a privacy-preserving alternative to that would be a huge iOS feature. It seems like Apple even already has most of the necessary pieces for that in place (e.g. the contacts app already knows whether my contacts have FaceTime enabled, Messages knows who has iMessage etc.)
Apple has all the necessary pieces in place - it has simply failed to take a hardline stance with apps that still want your full contact list. All apps (outside of ethical developers) want to get all your contacts since that data is valuable... Apple is the party here that is responsible for limiting their access to that data - and Apple customers are the part that is responsible for putting pressure on Apple to take that hardline stance... unfortunately the last party (outside of the technically apt as represented here) aren't particularly motivated to advocate for better privacy rules. Abstractly, sure - everyone wants better privacy, but the average user wouldn't be willing to go to any real effort to get it.
I’m not sure what your feature request exactly is but I guess it’s one of the following:
- Access to all contacts
- Access to selected contacts
Additionally, for any of the two options above:
- Access to all details
- Access to selected details (e.g. phone, email)
Lastly:
- Access to all labels
- Access to selected labels (e.g. home, work)
So, finally, all Germans will be able to sleep at night knowing that they gave WhatsApp only permission to access their friends’ non-work phone numbers and nothing else.
LOL
- Access to all contacts
- Access to selected contacts
Additionally, for any of the two options above:
- Access to all details
- Access to selected details (e.g. phone, email)
Lastly:
- Access to all labels
- Access to selected labels (e.g. home, work)
So, finally, all Germans will be able to sleep at night knowing that they gave WhatsApp only permission to access their friends’ non-work phone numbers and nothing else.
LOL
Good germans have a business phone, so they can justify to be reachable 24/7!
Obviously, the companys data protection office will prevent WhatsApp on the business phone, so no work phone numbers were at risk!
Write but not read in cases like this and calendar would be nice too, or limiting read/write to the apps own entries.
If I book an event let an app save it and read it’s own data, but not every event ever.
If I book an event let an app save it and read it’s own data, but not every event ever.
I miss no access control for speaker. There is global default. I turn on speakers for one music app and at next launch another social media app plays their ads on full volume.
I notice that sharing a contact is now a bit more tactful and allows you to hide some info. Not an iOS 17 feature though.
I really wish all the voice dictation/transcription had better language support. I'd really like to be able to say "Send a message to <my wife> in Spanish" and have it use Spanish dictation, and similarly to say "Read the last message in Spanish" when I'm using CarPlay. Perhaps at some point soon it will just get good enough that it'll detect which language is being used automatically, but right now it's pretty annoying for dual-language households.
Most of Big Tech is sleeping on multilingual support, purely because the USA is still their primary revenue stream.
Someday, they’ll start focusing on the rest of the world and we’ll see real advancements in this space…
Someday, they’ll start focusing on the rest of the world and we’ll see real advancements in this space…
To this day I never bothered with speech reckognition, I am not going to talk to my devices in english, and understanding Portuguese, Spanish and German, never really works.
Multilingual support extends much further than just assistant speech recognition - translation and transliteration, keyboard input, media captioning are places where I find current OSes lacking.
But I’m surprised they’re still sleeping in this considering Apple expects it’s highest growth markets to be outside the English speaking part of the world
I think it’s less about revenue stream and more about dev’s languages. There are many tech companies who’s primary revenue stream is China, for example, but in those cases they still don’t need multilingual support nor even devs who speak Chinese.
Most of USA doesn't speak English as their first language, isn't it?
78.5% of Americans speak English at home:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States
Yep, it baffles me too.
But as we can observe - Big Tech can totally ignore multilingual support and still make billions of dollars!
But as we can observe - Big Tech can totally ignore multilingual support and still make billions of dollars!
What do you mean? Of course they do.
Easily the most intriguing mistake I've seen in months.
Yeah. And the keyboard support for multi-languages is horrible, too. The prediction is nowadays so bad, I have to tiền it off or must use a single language only. Alone the notion that it should predict words in a different language than the current setting is baffling for me.
> The prediction is nowadays so bad, I have to tiền it off
This is great! I assume prediction gone wrong on "tiền". :)
It matches my experience as well, to the point that I also have it turned off.
This is great! I assume prediction gone wrong on "tiền". :)
It matches my experience as well, to the point that I also have it turned off.
Of course, I wanted to write “turn”, but the Apple keyboard was supposedly so smart, it had changed my word into something completely nonsensical
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Overall smaller languages is abysmal. Microsoft translated Windows to my native language decades ago. MacOS still not translated. Nor iPhone. While Android phones come with translation out-of-box for most manufacturers UIs.
How I wish Apple's core apps weren't tied to the OS. Apple Music needs a ground up redesign so badly. It's not quite as bad as it used to be, but it's such a core part of the iOS experience, and it really feels like they put in the minimum they could get away with.
Just look at this: https://www.apple.com/v/ios/ios-17/a/images/overview/music/p...
Just look at this: https://www.apple.com/v/ios/ios-17/a/images/overview/music/p...
It’s so inefficiently designed. Wasted space on oversized album artwork or (even worse) generic playlist covers. High friction to resume listening/browse by recency. Lazy loading everywhere, slow load times. Cluttered menu drawers.
The only thing it has going for it is general ecosystem integration (and lossless), which still is the deciding factor for me unfortunately, despite the qualms above.
The only thing it has going for it is general ecosystem integration (and lossless), which still is the deciding factor for me unfortunately, despite the qualms above.
What are your issues with it? For me it’s still 100x better than Spotify’s last 3 redesign disasters. And the integration with my own library of bootlegs and bandcamp purchases is brilliant. I have no UI issues with it, but they could spend a bit more time on QA. It’s a bit too buggy from time to time.
Being better than Spotify is an incredibly low bar, and not really what I was comparing against. The iOS music player was very pleasant to use before they haphazardly added Apple Music to it.
As you mentioned, it's full of bugs. Bugs happen, but they seem to have gotten out of control lately.
Top issues:
- 3/5 tabs use lazy load and anything less than great cellular/wifi means waiting to see anything.
- Speaking of cell/wifi, it really shows that this app was designed in a lab under perfect conditions. Music just... stops if the connection is weak when streaming. Was it another bug? My airpods? My car's bluetooth? Who knows, and who needs feedback anyway.
- Listen now tab can show a grand total of one (!!) full item before needing to scroll. On my phone with 1,483,776 pixels. It's also sorted in an arbitrary order that I cannot change.
- The Browse and Radio tabs are not at all personalized to me, so I don't have much to say about them and are mainly ignored.
- My library tab, my mainly used tab, is littered with album views of "Recently Added" in favor of adding a bunch of taps to things I actually want to listen to (Playlists> Playlist Name> Song/Play button) requires 3 taps.
- The album view in Recently Added makes no sense outside of downloading complete albums, which seems exceedingly rare. The music topping the charts is a bunch of singles and maybe EPs, not full albums. Even if one is not into pop music, adding music from a newly discovered artist, it's probably not a full album, rather a song or maybe a few tops. On top of this, it requires two taps or a long hold gesture to play it!
- Search is weirdly segmented for no reason, and is a step backwards from what Apple already solved with Spotlight. I always want results from my music first, and Apple Music second. A "no results" screen is useless for me, just show me Apple Music results, don't add yet another tap. Oh and search has Browse categories of course.
I could go on for a lot longer, but these issues grate me every day. Everything just requires too many taps or scrolling to get what I want.
As you mentioned, it's full of bugs. Bugs happen, but they seem to have gotten out of control lately.
Top issues:
- 3/5 tabs use lazy load and anything less than great cellular/wifi means waiting to see anything.
- Speaking of cell/wifi, it really shows that this app was designed in a lab under perfect conditions. Music just... stops if the connection is weak when streaming. Was it another bug? My airpods? My car's bluetooth? Who knows, and who needs feedback anyway.
- Listen now tab can show a grand total of one (!!) full item before needing to scroll. On my phone with 1,483,776 pixels. It's also sorted in an arbitrary order that I cannot change.
- The Browse and Radio tabs are not at all personalized to me, so I don't have much to say about them and are mainly ignored.
- My library tab, my mainly used tab, is littered with album views of "Recently Added" in favor of adding a bunch of taps to things I actually want to listen to (Playlists> Playlist Name> Song/Play button) requires 3 taps.
- The album view in Recently Added makes no sense outside of downloading complete albums, which seems exceedingly rare. The music topping the charts is a bunch of singles and maybe EPs, not full albums. Even if one is not into pop music, adding music from a newly discovered artist, it's probably not a full album, rather a song or maybe a few tops. On top of this, it requires two taps or a long hold gesture to play it!
- Search is weirdly segmented for no reason, and is a step backwards from what Apple already solved with Spotlight. I always want results from my music first, and Apple Music second. A "no results" screen is useless for me, just show me Apple Music results, don't add yet another tap. Oh and search has Browse categories of course.
I could go on for a lot longer, but these issues grate me every day. Everything just requires too many taps or scrolling to get what I want.
Yes yes yes. This is well-articulated. I agree with every point, especially poor connectivity. The cellular service in my area is a bit spotty and Apple Music is worthless outside of my home.
All said, I’d say it’s a UX disaster.
Unfortunately, the poor design extends even to Apple TV. My favorite - the “Now Playing” screen doesn’t have a visible Play/Pause button. Seriously.
All said, I’d say it’s a UX disaster.
Unfortunately, the poor design extends even to Apple TV. My favorite - the “Now Playing” screen doesn’t have a visible Play/Pause button. Seriously.
I’m not an Apple Music subscriber. The other day I was in the car and my daughter wanted to hear a particular song, so I asked Siri to play it (since I knew it was on my phone, I didn’t think this would be a difficult thing for Siri to do). Siri instead announced it was signing me up for a 10 day preview of Apple Music and then tried to stream the song. :/
I love Apple Music. I like the UI too.
But I also bought the Marvis Pro iOS app. It’s like $10 or something. It’s fantastic and the developer is incredibly active/responsive online. Worth checking out if you’re unfamiliar
But I also bought the Marvis Pro iOS app. It’s like $10 or something. It’s fantastic and the developer is incredibly active/responsive online. Worth checking out if you’re unfamiliar
It’s purposely neglected to push ads for Apples own subscription services. The App Store used to be a lot better to browse as well
Why would Apple intentionally worsen the experience of Apple Music and then advertise people to sign up for that very same platform? What does that accomplish?
If they could make it only have a Play button, that only played what they wanted to stream to you, while you continue to pay a subscription fee, they would.
The reason to make it harder to navigate your own library is so you don't navigate your library at all and just put on a channel. Amazon did this also, to favor their subscriptions. It is now frustratingly difficult to play your music. Searches return results not in your library, even when you were searching... your library.
It's the same reason Google and Bing are so much worse than they once were. The apps aren't serving the users, they're serving the customers (shareholders and advertisers).
The reason to make it harder to navigate your own library is so you don't navigate your library at all and just put on a channel. Amazon did this also, to favor their subscriptions. It is now frustratingly difficult to play your music. Searches return results not in your library, even when you were searching... your library.
It's the same reason Google and Bing are so much worse than they once were. The apps aren't serving the users, they're serving the customers (shareholders and advertisers).
> Searches return results not in your library, even when you were searching... your library.
I am floored by just how untrue this statement is
I am floored by just how untrue this statement is
It happened to me the last time I used the Amazon Music desktop application. It's part of the reason I don't anymore.
Hey I want to formally apologize for my earlier reply. I misread your comment, thinking your statement was about Apple Music. Reading it now I see you were talking about Amazon Music, which I have no experience with. Sorry again
Apple Music Voice is a subscription service. Music is an app that is preinstalled. If you’ve been using apple long enough you’ll have seen the gradual improvement in apps diminish to stop and in Some cases become removed to add buttons for the “signup” or subscription additions
This is different from intentionally sabotaging and degrading the user experience of a service, then advertising it to the world and telling them they should join, which appears to be what the original comment was saying.
Not really sure what comment you are referring to. Apple has neglected the mp3 capabilities for the streaming
I've thought it surprising they don't put more effort into the core apps and don't remove them from the iOS upgrade cycle. They could really leverage the iCloud subscription to turn it into a money maker.
The definition of "good" is whatever makes the most money, not what makes the best user experience.
I wish we had more control over default apps in general. Similar to the settings for email, browser, calendar, etc.
I thought that screenshot was a joke
Look at all that * space *
I notice Siri still continues to be some embarrassing afterthought for Apple.
At least to non-native English speakers, Siri is really atrocious. Most of the time, it doesn't even get the simplest queries right.
At least to non-native English speakers, Siri is really atrocious. Most of the time, it doesn't even get the simplest queries right.
Based on the comments here [1] Siri is on old, hard to maintain codebase.
Which means Apple is likely going to just replace it entirely with a new LLM based system which we know they are working on.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2023/03/15/apple-engineers-working...
Which means Apple is likely going to just replace it entirely with a new LLM based system which we know they are working on.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2023/03/15/apple-engineers-working...
Don’t worry, as a native speaker it’s not much better. While it can transcribe your request well, it very rarely can actually do anything more than search the internet.
Well, it's even so idiotic than WHEN it understands me (it can't handle any environmental noise.), it will actively change the name of people I call regularly into the name of people I haven't speoken to in 5+ years.
It's plain stupid.
It's plain stupid.
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Siri is the Safari of voice assistants.
But Safari is actually competent… and good?
Let's say it has improved.
When? I’ve been using it for the last 10 years (exclusively!) and I’ve had zero issues with it.
I think these complaints sometimes come from web developers who perceive Safari as being slow to adopt web standard APIs. IMO this is justified in some cases, and not in others where Apple resists implementing certain APIs for principled and/or technical reasons.
For the most part, these issues don’t have a big impact on end users, except when web developers choose to target Chrome-only.
For the most part, these issues don’t have a big impact on end users, except when web developers choose to target Chrome-only.
It's ok for users because we web developers have been working around Safari's issues for the last 10 years. Has gotten better, though.
I only use siri for cooking - hey siri, set timer 30 minutes, or - siri, wake me up in 2 hours
Still no phone and SMS anti-spam features :/ I would have thought Apple would add something similar to Android's speech to text transcription feature or anything more compelling than the current user experience.
I’ll second what my sibling poster said but also…
From my perspective iOS already has pretty good call/text blocking. Are you sure you know all the existing features?
For calling, there’s a built-in contacts only mode behind a single opt-in switch, this is what I use. There’s also a privacy preserving app system that allows you to install third party apps which provide block lists and labeling to the phone app.
Messages is similar, except with unknowns being put in a separate list and an older and simpler static block list, though it does also support reporting the message as junk which presumably means all iOS devices have a bit of a shared message spam filter.
From my perspective iOS already has pretty good call/text blocking. Are you sure you know all the existing features?
For calling, there’s a built-in contacts only mode behind a single opt-in switch, this is what I use. There’s also a privacy preserving app system that allows you to install third party apps which provide block lists and labeling to the phone app.
Messages is similar, except with unknowns being put in a separate list and an older and simpler static block list, though it does also support reporting the message as junk which presumably means all iOS devices have a bit of a shared message spam filter.
People want to be called from unknown numbers from time to time. A pizza delivery being outside, my doctor with test results etc. Blocking everyone but contacts is in the realm of "you're holding it wrong" kinda excuse.
Messages going to a different list helps little when iMessage is full of 0-day exploits that happen as soon as your phone receive the message.
Messages going to a different list helps little when iMessage is full of 0-day exploits that happen as soon as your phone receive the message.
There is a support for a third party blocking list which can both hint and block marketers etc (At least for phone calls not sure if it works with texts).
It’s not a well known nor heavily advertised feature - I learned about it from carrier commercial who provides app of their own.
It’s not a well known nor heavily advertised feature - I learned about it from carrier commercial who provides app of their own.
> From my perspective iOS already has pretty good call/text blocking. Are you sure you know all the existing features?
For context I'm comparing what's in place in iOS with what Android has had for at least a couple releases. With that familiarity, iOS's anti-spam features appear rudimentary at best.
> For calling, there’s a built-in contacts only mode behind a single opt-in switch
Contacts-only incoming calls and texts is a clunky design. Businesses (doctors offices, delivery services come to mind) frequently use random 1-800 numbers for their outgoing calls. Having those _and_ spam clutter up one's voicemail is far from ideal; the expectation is that the user will spend their time going through voicemail and delete spam. Live voicemail is definitely an improvement but even if I choose to block an incoming spam call, the voicemail is still left on my phone. Android lets one end the call as soon as spam is detected and there's no action needed after the fact.
> There’s also a privacy preserving app system that allows you to install third party apps which provide block lists and labeling to the phone app.
This is what I was referring to in my original post. On Android suspected spam calls and texts are labelled as such by default. Why does Apple expect users to install third party apps for this? It should at least be an opt-in feature that ships as part of iOS.
For context I'm comparing what's in place in iOS with what Android has had for at least a couple releases. With that familiarity, iOS's anti-spam features appear rudimentary at best.
> For calling, there’s a built-in contacts only mode behind a single opt-in switch
Contacts-only incoming calls and texts is a clunky design. Businesses (doctors offices, delivery services come to mind) frequently use random 1-800 numbers for their outgoing calls. Having those _and_ spam clutter up one's voicemail is far from ideal; the expectation is that the user will spend their time going through voicemail and delete spam. Live voicemail is definitely an improvement but even if I choose to block an incoming spam call, the voicemail is still left on my phone. Android lets one end the call as soon as spam is detected and there's no action needed after the fact.
> There’s also a privacy preserving app system that allows you to install third party apps which provide block lists and labeling to the phone app.
This is what I was referring to in my original post. On Android suspected spam calls and texts are labelled as such by default. Why does Apple expect users to install third party apps for this? It should at least be an opt-in feature that ships as part of iOS.
My carrier charges too much for voicemail, so if I block these calls they just go to the void.
The problem I have with these is that unknown but wanted senders get squelched with the spam. I get MFA tokens via SMS from assorted random numbers, or worse calls from them (looking at you Citibank).
That’s why the category is called “unknown” and not “unwanted”. There’s no way to know in advance whether a sender is wanted or not, so people should be actively checking that inbox instead.
Hence the complaints that Apple isn’t doing enough. It’s technically possible to know ahead of time if an SMS or call comes from a fraud operation or from an MFA number. Personally I don’t know if the phone is the right place to handle that. Seems like a carrier problem. But, other people in this thread are saying Android has better capabilities of filtering this abuse, so Apple ought to keep up.
Is this feature globally available? Because I receive an embarrassing amount of spam calls and never had a single of them blocked. The same goes for SMS.
Live voicemail with Silence Unknown Callers turned on looks to be exactly what you're describing. The second item on the page under Live Voicemail.
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You can report SMS spam from the Messages app.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph203ab0be4/io...
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph203ab0be4/io...
This is only for iMessage, it states SMS spam reporting is carrier dependent (I have no option to report SMS spam), and Apple isn’t filtering SMS spam
They have this, send a call to voicemail and see a transcription come in https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213877
Not everything has to be built in if the APIs are available:
https://www.hiya.com/products/app
https://www.hiya.com/products/app
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>If you use dual SIM,
you can set different ringtones per SIM and
choose either SIM card to return a phone call
from an unknown caller.
Probably the best change imo
Probably the best change imo
Genuinely curious: what's a use case for dual SIM? Different countries? Separation from personal and business? Something else?
In some locales, you want to do all of your internet use over one unlimited or high usage internet plan and handle SMS/calls over another carrier or plan. This is appealing for business users and regular people alike in some places that have high tariffs, highly asymmetrical usage limits, or other uneven plan limits that don't align with how you use your mobile device.
For example, I once had a lot of automated alerts sent by SMS to my phone for the early rollout of an IoT device I was working on. My regular unlimited voice and data plan was very cheap but only included a couple hundred SMS per month and I was going to blow past that during alpha testing, so I got a SIM from an MVNO with unlimited messaging for ~$5/mo and sent all the alerts to that number and had the company pay that bill, which was a nice way of isolating the expense as well.
It's also great if you are an international jewel thief and need a second line for taunting the Interpol agents hot on your trail without having to add them to your friends & family plan.
For example, I once had a lot of automated alerts sent by SMS to my phone for the early rollout of an IoT device I was working on. My regular unlimited voice and data plan was very cheap but only included a couple hundred SMS per month and I was going to blow past that during alpha testing, so I got a SIM from an MVNO with unlimited messaging for ~$5/mo and sent all the alerts to that number and had the company pay that bill, which was a nice way of isolating the expense as well.
It's also great if you are an international jewel thief and need a second line for taunting the Interpol agents hot on your trail without having to add them to your friends & family plan.
Those are two, also having different networks for different areas (if you have a good service on carrier 1 at one location and carrier 2 at another)
I use one sim card for day-to-day life in the US, and another sim card from my home country to interact with digital services there, when needed.
I have 4 SIM cards due to living in different countries. Sadly only 2 can be active at all times.
It also a diversification for telco shenanigans. Just to give an example, Singapore regulator just ordered telcos to stop accepting incoming SMS from entities not registered with local regulator. This affected a lot of overseas services OTP.
It also a diversification for telco shenanigans. Just to give an example, Singapore regulator just ordered telcos to stop accepting incoming SMS from entities not registered with local regulator. This affected a lot of overseas services OTP.
Work number and personal number on the same device. I’ve friends that switched their number completely to their work number because of the lack of dual sim phones back in the day. That is just a poor decision all around. I know someone who had to negotiate a release of the phone number to him in the compensation package when they were let go
That sounds a little questionable to me. I'd want the company to buy me a new phone because they likely consider all the associated data to be their property, and also because I wouldn't want my real phone subpoenaed in a lawsuit.
I know several people who have never had a personal phone - their employer has always provided one since the 90s
Given how many government and critical business websites like banks rely on SMS 2FA, I cannot imagine giving an employer that much control.
Data privacy. one esim I use for all these websites requiring a phone number as 2FA or when it's unclear to me why they need a phone number. It's off all the time, unless I expect an SMS on it. It reduce how much my real phone number spreads and hopefully reduces the amount of phishing I get...
I currently have my personal and company SIMs. Data goes through the company one, calls through my own.
People who travel a lot usually have their "native" sim as the eSIM and just grab whatever prepaid they can get for the country they're travelling in. Easiest way to avoid insane roaming fees.
People who travel a lot usually have their "native" sim as the eSIM and just grab whatever prepaid they can get for the country they're travelling in. Easiest way to avoid insane roaming fees.
Super useful if you're an expat or travel between two countries often.
Yep - with wifi calling (over mobile data) you can effectively roam for free anywhere in the world
Exactly the options you mentioned, + if you want to have a backup provider in case your primary is struggling somewhere.
I alternate between a Google Fi sim, and an AT&T business.
I alternate between a Google Fi sim, and an AT&T business.
I have one with almost unlimited data plan, other for my phone calls/texts.
Different countries is an obvious one. I live in both Spain and the UK.
I do dual country. One for the US and one for Canada.
It can be a bit economical to do that for the US & Canada but once you start needing to regularly make calls in both NA and somewhere outside NA that's where it really shines. There are some providers that cover all of NA for a reasonable price and most other geographies have really wide coverage - but there are scant choices for NA & Spain or NA & France coverage.
Yeah personal and business seems to be the best.
Yes, both of those.
I for one, my phone has been on the silent mode for the past 6-7 years, can’t remember last time my phone had a ringtone,
Some people needing a sound alert because they have time sensitive duties. For example, a daycare/school needs to reach a parent.
I don't usually opt into these early, but have been looking forward to AirTag sharing.
To be fair, it's not really all that early if you're doing the public release. I've been on iOS17 for months as part of the beta, and I'm not even using the developer beta, just the public beta.
Oh thank heavens. That alone's worth the upgrade.
It's so insane it wasn't a feature from the beginning, it's as if Apple didn't know people might live together and share things.
I agree. I understand the privacy concerns, but my wife and I already share our locations in Find My Friends. If I use her keys to drive to the store, I don't need a warning that her AirTag is following me. I know. And I'm 100% OK with that.
I'd already opted in to share my phone's and watch's location. It was beyond annoying that I couldn't opt in to share a specific AirTag's location, too.
I'd already opted in to share my phone's and watch's location. It was beyond annoying that I couldn't opt in to share a specific AirTag's location, too.
I don’t think this was so much a privacy concern as it was a bit challenging in terms of revoking keys and they, like they often do, opted for a basic implementation first to be refined later.
During the beta the 16 AirTag limit was still enforced with every shared AirTag counting towards it (and individual AirPods as well).
I’m glad to see that they’ve seemed to upped the limit or don’t count the shared AirTags against that limit anymore.
16 seems like a lot, but if you’re traveling with a couple of items you want to track and share with your party as backup, you start hitting it pretty fast.
I’m glad to see that they’ve seemed to upped the limit or don’t count the shared AirTags against that limit anymore.
16 seems like a lot, but if you’re traveling with a couple of items you want to track and share with your party as backup, you start hitting it pretty fast.
Only potential problem (at least when I checked on the state of the beta) is that the person you share it with has to be on iOS 17 too. This was the reason I didn't bother with the beta (although it was the feature I needed asap) since the person I was going to share with wasn't going to use the beta.
The most annoying new thing over the last few months for me was that my Android phone started giving privacy alerts for my physical key chain which has an AirTag which is registered to my wife (a present from her to me).
I've had Apple alert me about my own AirTag, registered to me and I don't know how that happened.
It was a rough public beta. Would suggest keeping this plan.
Any anecdotes you can share? This is the first bit of warning I’ve seen for iOS 17 so far with most people saying it’s been smooth
Those people have been misleading you :-)
Mostly the usual battery/heat issues, the frequent app crashes (1st and 3rd) and the annoying hidden keyboard bugs that lasted through several public beta releases that required force quitting and restarting apps before it would show up again.
Rather than re-hash, /r/iosbeta is a good indicated of the tribulations of each release.
https://old.reddit.com/r/iOSBeta/top/?sort=top&t=month
Mostly the usual battery/heat issues, the frequent app crashes (1st and 3rd) and the annoying hidden keyboard bugs that lasted through several public beta releases that required force quitting and restarting apps before it would show up again.
Rather than re-hash, /r/iosbeta is a good indicated of the tribulations of each release.
https://old.reddit.com/r/iOSBeta/top/?sort=top&t=month
I was on the developer beta from day 1, then switched to the public beta when that opened up. I haven't encountered any bugs significant enough that I remember details about them.
I'm not saying it was bugfree, just that the apps I use most were in decent shape from the start. (But I still acknowledge that you or anyone else might've had a very different experience from mine.)
I'm not saying it was bugfree, just that the apps I use most were in decent shape from the start. (But I still acknowledge that you or anyone else might've had a very different experience from mine.)
AFAIK, the disappearing keyboard bug affected everyone on the betas with recent iPhones. And it happened basically all the time.
which doesn't seem to work if the other user doesn't have an apple device even if they have an apple id. Really lost opportunity here
Upgraded yesterday. I’m loving the improvements to the keyboard. The autocorrection is a lot, lot better. And I never get ducking now when I’m trying to write something else.
But the real new shift is resizable windows and such on ipadOS 17 and watchOS 10 looks really nice on my series 7.
But the real new shift is resizable windows and such on ipadOS 17 and watchOS 10 looks really nice on my series 7.
Ha! I purposely change those words (duck, ducking, ducker etc) to sound less harsh. Still gets the point across to most people.
The keyboard is a huge improvement, much more accurate and easy to use
That’s great news and maybe the only reason I might upgrade. Ever since I went back to an iPhone I’ve had trouble with typing. I don’t know why but the Android keyboard was always much more accurate.
It’s the best keyboard upgrade in years. I’ve changed nothing about my typing and it’s far far more accurate. Not perfect but also not frustratingly bad. It’s very close to perfect.
And yet I still can not get any of the more "advanced" features (like predictive text) for my native language keyboard.
It's been, what, at least five years(?) since predictive text was launched. I never expected to be the first to be supported, but starting to feel a bit ridiculous when some languages with a few tens of percents more speakers have had support from nearly the start.
Meanwhile third party keyboards have had support for ages. I'd rather use the stock keyboard, but can't bear it in its current state.
It's been, what, at least five years(?) since predictive text was launched. I never expected to be the first to be supported, but starting to feel a bit ridiculous when some languages with a few tens of percents more speakers have had support from nearly the start.
Meanwhile third party keyboards have had support for ages. I'd rather use the stock keyboard, but can't bear it in its current state.
The keyboard enhancements were very much needed. iOS no longer forcing me to delete 30 times before it finally lets my actually correct word stay is worth the update alone.
It does also seem to have grammar improvements, and doesn’t seem to be so happy to “correct, but actually make incorrect 5 words back” as the prior keyboard would frequently do after apple stopped giving you the option to stop that.
The beta before release had significant alarm issues with alarms definitely not going off. So I hope those are sorted out.
It does also seem to have grammar improvements, and doesn’t seem to be so happy to “correct, but actually make incorrect 5 words back” as the prior keyboard would frequently do after apple stopped giving you the option to stop that.
The beta before release had significant alarm issues with alarms definitely not going off. So I hope those are sorted out.
I wonder if it will start understanding the difference between “its” and “it’s”
“Were” and “we’re” is also an annoying one. Specifically “were”, it’s autocorrected to the other one six or seven times just trying to type this comment (iOS 16 here)
Autocorrects that "fix" a real word that's spelled correctly and make sense in context to an incorrect word make me want to throw my phone into a lake.
Oh my god, please yes. It acts like it thinks “its” is never correct (except when turning “it’d”, which, admittedly, is rather slangish, to “it’s”) with the result that it causes more harm than good. It’d be an improvement to simply make it ignore that pair of words and never try to correct either, versus the current behavior.
We'll, I guess were just going to have to wait and see if its fixed.
But seriously! Typing is sooo bad on iOS, that it has almost made me move back to Android.
But seriously! Typing is sooo bad on iOS, that it has almost made me move back to Android.
I would be happy if it stopped correcting "and" to "And" in the middle of a sentence.
I’m not sure it’s got that correct. It’s okay. It’s got a brain of its own.
(I did not manually correct any of the above)
(I did not manually correct any of the above)
or “of” vs “if”, “in” vs “on”, “I” vs “o” (wtf? lol), and on and on
do you have more info on the keyboard improvements?
I got so annoyed with autocorrect that I turned if off entirely. But it's hard to type accurately without it :(
I got so annoyed with autocorrect that I turned if off entirely. But it's hard to type accurately without it :(
Autocorrect now uses a language model so it won't autocorrect 'fucking' to 'ducking' if it thinks that's how you speak. It learns slang / curse words now, whereas before you would have to manually go in and add a keyboard shortcut to override the autocorrect.
It’s just overall vastly improved. I understand that’s not really saying much since the iOS 16 keyboard, when compared to what’s out there, is essentially unusable.
I can’t remember the last time I said “fuck this stupid fucking keyboard”, whereas I said it with the iOS 16 keyboard every time I had to use it.
I can’t remember the last time I said “fuck this stupid fucking keyboard”, whereas I said it with the iOS 16 keyboard every time I had to use it.
I wonder if it will recognize "won't"
The big failure of Siri isn't the lack of AI, it is the lack of programming useful simple functionality.
The big failure of Siri isn't the lack of AI, it is the lack of programming useful simple functionality.
Slightly off topic: Does anybody know how to remove something from AutoSuggestion?
It's been more than a year—and every time I type "Good night" it still suggests my ex-girlfriend.
ARGHHHH
It's been more than a year—and every time I type "Good night" it still suggests my ex-girlfriend.
ARGHHHH
You can try going to Settings > General > Reset then tap "Reset Keyboard Dictionary". I think this wipes everything iOS has stored about your typing habits so it should hopefully fix the issue
I must have entered my wife's name in lower case at some point, because it autocompletes everyone else's names with a capital but leaves hers lower cased.
I wonder if you add a text expansion for "good night" expanding to "good night" again if it fixes it?
this is also a good trick for swear words! unsure if it will still be needed on 17 but fuck=fuck will stop iOS from autocorrecting it to duck
Would really like to be able to have different personal “poster” images for different contacts. The friend trolling potential is immense.
Most important part of a major version phone OS update these days is which devices are no longer supported.
It supports the iPhone XS and XR, which are ~5 years old. Apple is better than most vendors about supporting old devices.
This longer-term support, while still not as long as I'd like it, I'd a big part of why I switched from Android for the device I mostly use. I still keep a few de-crapified/de-bloated Android phones for audiobooks, music files, and as a KDE Connect controller for a media PC, largely thanks to F-Droid, but the security updates on this hand-me-down iPhone give me some peace of mind.
If/when this XR dies or is no longer supported and another old-but-good gift phone is not in the works I'll probably look for a cheap-enough, good-enough Android and stop paying for Apple One. As I get older and the desire for novelty is replaced by the expectation of consistency and reliability for communication, information (a web browser), and a decent camera, I just want this device that I'm used to to keep working.
If/when this XR dies or is no longer supported and another old-but-good gift phone is not in the works I'll probably look for a cheap-enough, good-enough Android and stop paying for Apple One. As I get older and the desire for novelty is replaced by the expectation of consistency and reliability for communication, information (a web browser), and a decent camera, I just want this device that I'm used to to keep working.
I was an Android user for ~6 years, but as you said, I want something consistent and reliable. Android was never that for me.
I bought an iPhone 11 Pro four years ago and still like it. Occasionally I'm tempted for a newer iPhone, but there's no compelling reason to buy a newer model.
I bought an iPhone 11 Pro four years ago and still like it. Occasionally I'm tempted for a newer iPhone, but there's no compelling reason to buy a newer model.
You aren't alone. I really wanted the 2020 SE to be the 5-year phone but the battery just dies too fast, it's not good for a day even when starting on 100% charge with battery saver mode on and replacing it takes a week because they have to send the unit to god knows where a service center is actually located. And the new battery will just cook itself after a year anyway, so I'm very seriously considering the 15, especially since it comes with USB-C so I can ditch half the cables.
I'd gladly take a thicker SE with a more robust battery. It isn't a fashion item anyway anymore.
I'd gladly take a thicker SE with a more robust battery. It isn't a fashion item anyway anymore.
This is certainly alleviated a bit on Android by having most of the core apps updatable separate from the OS itself. I know people who are running 5+ year old Android devices that are only just starting to think about upgrading.
5 years is absolutely pitiful when no meaningful hardware changes have occurred IMO. Apple being the best of a sad field is not really inspiring.
FWIW that's 5 years of feature updates.
They still do security fixes for iOS 15 which is the iphone 6S in 2015 so 8 years.
The last security update for iOS 12 was 7 months ago too.
IMO that's a generous period for security updates.
Their usefulness is honestly more limited by app developer's support of the old api's, and the increasing bloat of web apps rather than Apple's support. It would be better of course if we could homebrew on them after that but I'm not sure I'd call it pitiful.
They still do security fixes for iOS 15 which is the iphone 6S in 2015 so 8 years.
The last security update for iOS 12 was 7 months ago too.
IMO that's a generous period for security updates.
Their usefulness is honestly more limited by app developer's support of the old api's, and the increasing bloat of web apps rather than Apple's support. It would be better of course if we could homebrew on them after that but I'm not sure I'd call it pitiful.
There have been huge architectural changes under the hood. Granted, most end users are oblivious to them (eg. Neural Engine generational changes, GPU, SoC, etc)
FWIW, iOS 15 updates are still being released for these devices. A. week ago[1], in fact.
1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213913
FWIW, iOS 15 updates are still being released for these devices. A. week ago[1], in fact.
1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213913
Apple does however continue to provide security updates, they released a security update for ios 15 earlier this year. As an iphone 8 user this is perfectly fine for me. My phone works great and none of this new stuff is something I can't live without.
Looking over the list, so much of it seems like application-level changes to stuff like messages, calls, contacts, etc. For a user who has opted out of most of that in favour of GMail, Whatsapp, Signal, and so on, it's hard to see the big draw.
I'm not sure what you mean - the last security update fixed massive 0-day which was an arbitrary code execution caused by the image decoder. CVE-2023-41064
AFAIK every app that uses the ImageI/O api is effected by it, which includes every app you mentioned. You often don't need to even open the message for the image to be decoded.
From my understanding most vulnerabilities are from either the image decoder, text decoder, or webkit which again, effects nearly all apps. All apps can only use the webkit view, which affects nearly all of them to some degree.
I think you might be confusing the attack vector - messages is the easiest to attack since you just sent a regular text. Even if you don't normally use messages, it'll parse the image and you'll be hit by the 0 day. In theory this will work with most messaging apps.
AFAIK every app that uses the ImageI/O api is effected by it, which includes every app you mentioned. You often don't need to even open the message for the image to be decoded.
From my understanding most vulnerabilities are from either the image decoder, text decoder, or webkit which again, effects nearly all apps. All apps can only use the webkit view, which affects nearly all of them to some degree.
I think you might be confusing the attack vector - messages is the easiest to attack since you just sent a regular text. Even if you don't normally use messages, it'll parse the image and you'll be hit by the 0 day. In theory this will work with most messaging apps.
I was referring to the opposite side of things— not the security patches but the actual new features of iOS 17. Rather than being OS-level capabilities that feel like they would impact the whole ecosystem, they're more like app features, and a lot of the app features don't apply to me as I use alternatives to those specific apps.
What are you comparing it to? Python does bug fixes for 2 years, then security updates for 5 [0]. Ubuntu LTS releases do 5 years and you have to pay to get the 10 years [1]. Apple stacks up quite well against any competition I'm aware of here.
[0] https://peps.python.org/pep-0537/
[1] https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
[0] https://peps.python.org/pep-0537/
[1] https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
You’re comparing the wrong things. A specific release of Python or Ubuntu is only maintained for that long, but you can upgrade to the next version just fine, normally with little effort. (Sometimes it takes more effort, but that’s true of iOS workflows too.) If you have fifteen-year-old x86-64 hardware, you can probably run the latest versions of Ubuntu and Python on it. By contrast (using the figures from this thread), iPhones become less useful after about five years since you can’t get feature upgrades any more and so increasingly apps will stop working, and become unmaintained after about eight years.
What x86-64 hardware provides software support from the manufacturer for 15+ years?
What do you mean by “software support”? All I can think of that would be relevant is things like firmware/BIOS security patches. Honestly most people never need or get even that. But even if there’s an unpatched rootkit opportunity (which is unlikely to be practical to invoke), everything else in the stack can still be modern and patched, featurewise and securitywise. I’d say that’s normally good enough.
But even if we allow that, that’s a completely distinct topic, and my point stands; your Python/Ubuntu comparison was still clearly unreasonable.
But even if we allow that, that’s a completely distinct topic, and my point stands; your Python/Ubuntu comparison was still clearly unreasonable.
Just "5 years" is very misleading.
I have a 7.5 year-old iPhone SE and it has gotten two security updates this past month. In other words, the 5 years you mention is ONLY for entirely new OS versions which old hardware simply can't support. Older phones continue to be supported.
I have a 7.5 year-old iPhone SE and it has gotten two security updates this past month. In other words, the 5 years you mention is ONLY for entirely new OS versions which old hardware simply can't support. Older phones continue to be supported.
There have been huge changes in CPU/GPU performance and RAM- how does that not indicate a meaningful hardware change?
When you can only run one app at a time on iOS, why do you need 8GB of RAM? Outside of high end games or professional editing type apps, this seems hugely overkill for most apps.
You can definitely run more than one app at a time on iOS so I’m not sure what you’re referring to. For me, I am really looking forward to 8 gigabytes of ram because I use stable diffusion on my phone.
For which Wikipedia seems to be consistently the best source.
In this case, it's XS and up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_17
Thankfully, older devices (like my iPhone 8) continue to receive security updates, which suits me just fine as none of the new features interest me.
In this case, it's XS and up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_17
Thankfully, older devices (like my iPhone 8) continue to receive security updates, which suits me just fine as none of the new features interest me.
Do you think people are consistently keeping their phones for more than a decade? I get that anti-consumer vibe but this doesn't feel like a common use-case. Compare Apple to almost anyone and they stack up well.
The only devices it drops support for are the ones released in 2017 – the iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, and iPhone X.
Remember, this is a feature update. Security updates still get pushed to devices nearly 10 years old.
My spirits are a little crushed as an iPhone 8 owner. But I know my hardware can barely keep up as-is
Which is funny, because I own an iPad from 2018. Which has the A10 chip (which was used in the iPhone 7). Guess what, the iPhone does not get iOS 17 but the iPad does get iPadOS 17.
often these disparities have to do with the iPad with a seemingly-same CPU having more RAM.
It’s a different hardware package too - id imagine the thermals differ significantly between the phone and the pad, and that you can drive the chip harder in the pad.
I usually update right away, but unfortunately my insulin pump's app only supports some features on versions they've validated.
That's scary in so many ways.
I assume you can operate the insulin pump without any app? Or do you depend on a functional smartphone on-hand?
Does the pump itself not have built-in safety features that the app shouldn't be a critical component?
I assume you can operate the insulin pump without any app? Or do you depend on a functional smartphone on-hand?
Does the pump itself not have built-in safety features that the app shouldn't be a critical component?
No, the pump works perfectly fine without an app. At least one pump out there doesn't (the Omnipod), but in lieu of a smart phone, they give you a device (essentially a single-purpose Android)
The ability to bolus (administer insulin) from the app is fairly convenient, that's all. Since that's the biggest area of risk, that's the feature they disable until they've validated the OS version.
The ability to bolus (administer insulin) from the app is fairly convenient, that's all. Since that's the biggest area of risk, that's the feature they disable until they've validated the OS version.
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Yeah, my dad is in the same situation. The companies that make this diabetes machinery will certify it for use pretty soon (probably) but not immediately.
funny enough the journal apps / notes apps that live inside people's computers / phones are useless for future generations or ya kids.
when you die and no one knows your password what happens ?
whereas a notebook - people can easily read or try to if your handwriting isn't legible.
the notebook will remain the same 200 years from now. if humans can still read handwriting.
sometimes no-tech is the best tech.
when you die and no one knows your password what happens ?
whereas a notebook - people can easily read or try to if your handwriting isn't legible.
the notebook will remain the same 200 years from now. if humans can still read handwriting.
sometimes no-tech is the best tech.
Is that necessarily a bad thing?
A notebook isn’t nearly as meticulous as every semi anonymous post I’ve ever made to Reddit or discord or whatever, plus my meme image collection, my browsing history, etc
Why should my kids and future generations get access to my shameful secrets just because I’m dead? If i wanted that information hidden, shouldn’t it stay that way?
To that end I suppose it’s just the philosophical argument of “is it shitty to read someone’s diary after they die?” but with the stakes increased a bit due to the nature of greatly increased data collection
A notebook isn’t nearly as meticulous as every semi anonymous post I’ve ever made to Reddit or discord or whatever, plus my meme image collection, my browsing history, etc
Why should my kids and future generations get access to my shameful secrets just because I’m dead? If i wanted that information hidden, shouldn’t it stay that way?
To that end I suppose it’s just the philosophical argument of “is it shitty to read someone’s diary after they die?” but with the stakes increased a bit due to the nature of greatly increased data collection
> when you die and no one knows your password what happens ?
iOS 17 has a Legacy contact option for death scenario
Don’t know if it’s new but I was just prompted for it
iOS 17 has a Legacy contact option for death scenario
Don’t know if it’s new but I was just prompted for it
As a counterpoint, it takes a lot less effort to keep a file preserved. A fire-and-flood-proof document storage solution would certainly be a lot more work for me than setting my google/govt. data up so people in my life get access to what they need.
Some writers burn their manuscripts. Phone calls generally aren't recorded. There is historical value to VIPs leaving behind diaries in which they discuss their thoughts and feelings around important events.
The "Journal" app is not in this immediate release.
Are you able to export data from that journal feature in some widely accessible format?
Not sure about the journal, but the rest of the Health app allows export to XML (also, it is a GDPR requirement as well), so I would assume the same will be true of journal as well.
Ipados still doesn't have a bleeping calculator.
I just want a toggle for the flat UX so I can know what items are interactive.
I just want a toggle for the flat UX so I can know what items are interactive.
If Apple Vision Pro or just the whole VR & friends industry takes off, then we're gonna see a resurgence of z-depth all over the place, and perhaps even a small return to skeuomorphism.
I finally did it... I kept an iPhone long enough to not be able to upgrade. Looks like iPhone 8 doesn't get iOS 17. I guess I won't be bothered with update nags anymore.
Since iPhone 8 started on iOS 11 thats pretty darn good.
It funny, I remember the ad and what was going through my life more than the phone itself. I don't know how apple ads seems to do that to me. I can say that for a lot of their ads.
Even now im looking back and loving that Champagne Gold color with the creme white back. It evokes thoughts of the flavors white chocolate and champagne cola. Two things I love. All of this in a phone that was an afterthought (since Apple launched the iPhone X at the same conference).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0py91Y0bLo
Making half decent products could get you to 1 trillion dollars market cap but making ads that cause desire is how you get to 2 trillion I guess.
It funny, I remember the ad and what was going through my life more than the phone itself. I don't know how apple ads seems to do that to me. I can say that for a lot of their ads.
Even now im looking back and loving that Champagne Gold color with the creme white back. It evokes thoughts of the flavors white chocolate and champagne cola. Two things I love. All of this in a phone that was an afterthought (since Apple launched the iPhone X at the same conference).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0py91Y0bLo
Making half decent products could get you to 1 trillion dollars market cap but making ads that cause desire is how you get to 2 trillion I guess.
Finally, in iOS-17 Maps app one can download offline maps -- a very useful feature for navigating in areas with poor or no cell-phone coverage. I have mostly switched from Google Maps to Appel Maps due to Apples better UI and ability to control font sizes.
> FaceTime now features an incredible connected experience with Apple TV 4K. To see friends and family on the big screen, users can use Continuity Camera to start a FaceTime call on iPhone and hand it off to Apple TV, or initiate the FaceTime call directly from their Apple TV. With Center Stage, users stay perfectly framed even as they move around the room.
I was really looking forward to making FaceTime calls on my Apple TV with my parents who live halfway across the world. But of course, they restrict it to only Apple TV 4K 2nd gen and above. What possible reasons could there be to not support this feature in the 1st gen hardware? Is it just a money grab?
I was really looking forward to making FaceTime calls on my Apple TV with my parents who live halfway across the world. But of course, they restrict it to only Apple TV 4K 2nd gen and above. What possible reasons could there be to not support this feature in the 1st gen hardware? Is it just a money grab?
History with Apple is that it's a little bit the older hardware isn't quite powerful enough, and a little that Apple's bar is high. They might be able to make a version of this that was not quite as polished or not as good of framerate etc that did work with older hardware, but they won't bc that's now how Apple rolls.
Sometimes this feels like they're trying to force people onto newer hardware, but Apple also supports old hardware for a long time and regularly adds things to devices that are 3-4 years old, so... it's not actually that one-sided AFAICT.
Sometimes this feels like they're trying to force people onto newer hardware, but Apple also supports old hardware for a long time and regularly adds things to devices that are 3-4 years old, so... it's not actually that one-sided AFAICT.
The main differences between those generations are the core CPU (the 2nd gen is an A12, the 1st is an A10) and the wifi 6 (vs 5 on the 1st gen).
Probably one (or both of those) aren't good enough to do what is necessary for the FaceTime.
Probably one (or both of those) aren't good enough to do what is necessary for the FaceTime.
And in my experience during the beta it was already pretty jank. Looking forward to trying it now that it may be fully polished.
The A10 came out in 2016... Facetime came out in 2010 on the iPhone 4, a device running iOS 4 on a an Apple A4 CPU and 2.4GHz-only 802.11n. Surely the A10 can handle making a call.
But can A10 handle the coordination involved between a phone and an AppleTV so that it can show the image on one but use the camera and microphone on the other but keep them in sync?
I looked up the specs, and the biggest glaring omission is that the A10 (not A10 fusion), does not appear to have hardware encoding of HEVC.
The Apple TV has to stream camera from the iPhone to the TV and the other participants (up to 32 participants) in real time without dropping frames or garbling the audio.
I'm not sure the the A10, say nothing of the A4, could reliably handle group calls. To be fair to the A4 and A10, group calls weren't a feature of FaceTime until 2018. Could the A4 handle an audio or low-res video call? Probably.
I'm not sure the the A10, say nothing of the A4, could reliably handle group calls. To be fair to the A4 and A10, group calls weren't a feature of FaceTime until 2018. Could the A4 handle an audio or low-res video call? Probably.
> Facetime came out in 2010 on the iPhone 4
You have a great recall of the timeline. I thought that it came out much earlier but I was mistakenly thinking of iChat AV. "In June 2003, Apple announced iChat AV . . ." [1]
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaceTime
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IChat
You have a great recall of the timeline. I thought that it came out much earlier but I was mistakenly thinking of iChat AV. "In June 2003, Apple announced iChat AV . . ." [1]
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaceTime
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IChat
FaceTime in full HD was not supported until 2020, and it was only on devices that released in 2017 or newer. It is more than just a 'call'
Whatever hardware they use for near field comms between the phone and the TV maybe?
> What possible reasons could there be to not supporting this feature in the 1st gen hardware? Is it just a money grab?
This is almost always a limitation of the hardware. Keep in mind the AppleTV has really old SoCs compared to iPhones and iPads of similar vintage. The AppleTV 4k 1st edition has an A10X SoC while the 2nd edition has an A12. The A10 is the same CPU as the iPhone 7 but was sold up through 2021.
This is almost always a limitation of the hardware. Keep in mind the AppleTV has really old SoCs compared to iPhones and iPads of similar vintage. The AppleTV 4k 1st edition has an A10X SoC while the 2nd edition has an A12. The A10 is the same CPU as the iPhone 7 but was sold up through 2021.
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Usually there's something subtle about the hardware that's lacking. Maybe not for this particular version, but the next iteration of it that Apple has already planned.
In these cases they usually just gate the feature to the latest hardware versions.
In these cases they usually just gate the feature to the latest hardware versions.
I’m willing to bet it’s both hardware video en/decoding (which is necessary for the near zero lag double jump) and the Wi-Fi chipset. If most people are running these things in a tv cabinet on Wi-Fi, both need to be pretty decent for the experience not to be disappointing
See "Privacy and Security" section.
> And it [Communication Safety] extends beyond Messages to include content sent and received in AirDrop, ..., and third‑party apps.
This distorted Apple's vision of privacy is not news to me, but extending their invasive policy to third-party apps is crossing the line. However, I'm not sure whether this means that they are going to forcefully intercept all content from 3rd party apps, or introduce an API to app developers that will allow them to flag content as sensitive. If anybody knows more about this, please let us all know.
> And it [Communication Safety] extends beyond Messages to include content sent and received in AirDrop, ..., and third‑party apps.
This distorted Apple's vision of privacy is not news to me, but extending their invasive policy to third-party apps is crossing the line. However, I'm not sure whether this means that they are going to forcefully intercept all content from 3rd party apps, or introduce an API to app developers that will allow them to flag content as sensitive. If anybody knows more about this, please let us all know.
It’s not news to you, you make harsh statements, but reading the actual description of the feature was too much.
And wow, describing Apple’s vision on privacy as distorted is really something.
Is Meta your reference on privacy matters?
I know on a personal level the executives and experts of the entire privacy division. There might be some very US-centric agenda items in what they do (the CSAM detection fiasco which cost them a dent in their reputation) but generally speaking I’ve rarely seen a team more motivated and driven than that one.
I know on a personal level the executives and experts of the entire privacy division. There might be some very US-centric agenda items in what they do (the CSAM detection fiasco which cost them a dent in their reputation) but generally speaking I’ve rarely seen a team more motivated and driven than that one.
> The Sensitive Content Analysis framework enables third-party developers to integrate Communication Safety in their apps. The framework allows developers to detect if content that children receive or attempt to send in their apps may contain nudity, and developers can add protections in their apps when sensitive content is detected.
https://www.apple.com/child-safety/
https://www.apple.com/child-safety/
Thanks. This feature is described as optional for 3rd party apps and a claim is made that the information is not sent off the device. Assuming this is true, I take back my criticism about the policy being invasive.
As an owner of iPhone X, I don‘t feel like I‘m missing out. Maybe will get the 15 directly in a year or two.
Carriers tend to burn off the previous gen pros for nearly free in the week after the next gen pros are announced. For myself a free 14 pro from an X.
The longer you wait the more impressive the performance boost is once you do upgrade.
Yeah, I have an iPhone 11 Pro, which still works perfectly well—good battery life, good performance, etc. It really puts to rest those complaints everyone used to make about "forced obsolescence."
I’ve just had to go back to my 11 pro after my 14 pro met its end. It’s absolutely fine, apart from the broken FaceID sensor, which is driving me nuts (using 1Password without it is irritating as anything. )
Yeah my iPhone X is still doing amazingly. I should probably get a new battery at some point I guess but other than that I have literally zero complaints
FaceID, camera, 120hz display are significantly good upgrades.
iPhone X was the phone that introduced FaceID
subsequent phones significantly improved FaceID performance (faster, fewer false negatives)
Yeah, everyone has different needs :)
The 15 is .4 mm thicker and 7 grams heavier than the 12. That’s a bit disappointing.
Also still no touchID buttons from the iPad and iPad mini. Booo.
Also still no touchID buttons from the iPad and iPad mini. Booo.
> The 15 is .4 mm thicker and 7 grams heavier than the 12. That’s a bit disappointing.
I sincerely cannot tell if that's satire or not.
I sincerely cannot tell if that's satire or not.
You’re giving me a phone with essentially the same feature set and it keeps getting a little bit bigger and a little bit heavier. Why? So they can sell me a new case? The screen is the exact same dimensions. They even dumped a button, which should mean more internal volume for other things.
This is why I’m still on the 12. I only got that because it had a little more screen real estate than the one I had before, but still mostly fits in my pocket.
This is why I’m still on the 12. I only got that because it had a little more screen real estate than the one I had before, but still mostly fits in my pocket.
Maybe just don't buy it?
I implied but did not state clearly that I’m on the 12 still. I usually skip every other version, but at some point I skipped 2 and got on the even numbered editions (never buy the first version from Apple) and now it looks like I’m skipping at least 4.
It’s valid for a customer who had generally been happy with a company (or in this case a division) to complain that they haven’t given them a reason to do so in a long time.
It’s valid for a customer who had generally been happy with a company (or in this case a division) to complain that they haven’t given them a reason to do so in a long time.
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Really having fun with the contacts poster as I try to complete all of my close friend's pictures.
Still no major improvement on Siri. Really disappointing considering iOS does not let you replace Siri with ChatGPT or Google Assistant.
Really behind what’s possible today especially since LLMs. This is where the future of computing lays IMO, not new stickers.
I just want it to unbreak the screenshot button combo.
Before ios16 it would always work. Now half the time it just makes a full screenshot and saves it without any UI feedback that it did anything. So I tap the buttons longer and get the pop-up for editing.
Before ios16 it would always work. Now half the time it just makes a full screenshot and saves it without any UI feedback that it did anything. So I tap the buttons longer and get the pop-up for editing.
Gosh, I would love to re-map that combo. My photo album fills up with accidental screenshots, which I pretty much _never_ want.
In case you don't know, there's a Screenshots smart album in Photos, and you could use that to relatively easily delete them all.
Same. The combo made sense when power was on top of the phone. With it being just opposite of volume, it just means accidental screenshotting all the time. It's quite infuriating!
Oh, I would be also happy for fixing the bugs bothering me: once out of 10 times opening the smart-cover doesn't wake up my iPad (have to close and open again, or use the side button), and randomly I have to kill the email app because it fails syncing my mails. But such quality of life bugfixes rarely happen :( At least I have been waiting for these since years.
It's broken for me in the same way on iOS 16.
Noooooooooooooooooooo. Completely unplayable.
> iOS 17 is compatible with these devices.
iPhone 15 iPhone 15 Plus iPhone 15 Pro iPhone 15 Pro Max iPhone 14 iPhone 14 Plus iPhone 14 Pro iPhone 14 Pro Max iPhone 13 iPhone 13 mini iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro Max iPhone 12 iPhone 12 mini iPhone 12 Pro iPhone 12 Pro Max iPhone 11 iPhone 11 Pro iPhone 11 Pro Max iPhone XS iPhone XS Max iPhone XR iPhone SE (2nd generation or later)
Still having good support right?
Btw, I feel like Apple is gradually improving small thing in their built-in apps base on other 3rd-party alternatives' advantages. It's good for Apple ecosystem and its users.
iPhone 15 iPhone 15 Plus iPhone 15 Pro iPhone 15 Pro Max iPhone 14 iPhone 14 Plus iPhone 14 Pro iPhone 14 Pro Max iPhone 13 iPhone 13 mini iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro Max iPhone 12 iPhone 12 mini iPhone 12 Pro iPhone 12 Pro Max iPhone 11 iPhone 11 Pro iPhone 11 Pro Max iPhone XS iPhone XS Max iPhone XR iPhone SE (2nd generation or later)
Still having good support right?
Btw, I feel like Apple is gradually improving small thing in their built-in apps base on other 3rd-party alternatives' advantages. It's good for Apple ecosystem and its users.
XS was released in 2018. So 5 years support so far.
And they are investing in their core apps because the code base is increasingly shared between iPhone, iPad, Mac, Watch and soon to be Vision Pro. Apps that aren't tend not to get as much love.
And they are investing in their core apps because the code base is increasingly shared between iPhone, iPad, Mac, Watch and soon to be Vision Pro. Apps that aren't tend not to get as much love.
kinda mad that there still is no upgrade path for my 1st-gen se that will let me have a phone at around 100g
I am playing with safari profiles and it doesn’t seem to work as I expected. I expected that a new profile is completely fresh and clean. However, the history is copied and separate from there on. There is an option to clean that per profile but that is an extra step. As for bookmarks / favorites I still have to find out how to get it completely separated.
I want to create a “meta” profile for accessing meta’s webpages but don’t want to give them access to bookmarks/history whatever except their own.
I want to create a “meta” profile for accessing meta’s webpages but don’t want to give them access to bookmarks/history whatever except their own.
Beware! After upgrading, the iCloud sync for "Passwords & Keychain" had turned itself on. It's not even the first time this has happened.
Fuck you, Apple!
Fuck you, Apple!
What I really wish was there to be some way to disable Siri. In theory you can, but as soon as you want to use CarPlay, Siri has to be enabled. Very frustrating.
Very disappointing so far. I was excited by some changes and nothing seems to work:
- groceries lists in reminders should create automatic sections, it doesn’t work
- photos should automatically detect pets, it doesn’t work
- hey siri was supposed to become just Siri, it doesn’t work (maybe it’s English only?)
At least sharing AirTags works.
Edit: the custom contact picture doesn’t appear to work either…
- groceries lists in reminders should create automatic sections, it doesn’t work
- photos should automatically detect pets, it doesn’t work
- hey siri was supposed to become just Siri, it doesn’t work (maybe it’s English only?)
At least sharing AirTags works.
Edit: the custom contact picture doesn’t appear to work either…
Groceries will take a little bit to generate a ML model and even then it’ll get better over time as it learns more niche stuff based on where you place it.
Pet detection requires a bit more time as it builds the ML model and crawls through your photos, progress towards that is typically only done overnight while it’s on the charger.
Siri trigger word is English only (Australia, Canada, UK and US).
Pet detection requires a bit more time as it builds the ML model and crawls through your photos, progress towards that is typically only done overnight while it’s on the charger.
Siri trigger word is English only (Australia, Canada, UK and US).
> groceries lists in reminders should create automatic sections, it doesn’t work
This took a short time to kick in for me after I updated. Make sure the list is set as a "Groceries" list type, and try adding something to the list.
This took a short time to kick in for me after I updated. Make sure the list is set as a "Groceries" list type, and try adding something to the list.
It’s indeed working now. This is exactly what I did previously (3 times precisely), but now it works. Maybe the update doesn’t actually update everything, just the bare minimum and completes the rest in background.
Your OS is now updated. the updated applications that comprise iOS 17 then have to check and update the data, particularly in cases where other devices tied to iCloud also require updating.
It is likely that if you also have a Mac or iPad that isn't using the most recent point releases, the lists or the Photos will not update to the new behavior.
“Siri” works if you change to UK or US language
Whatever new major release promises to deliver, I will wait until spring around .3 to update, because apple .0 releases are riddled with bugs, everytime I tried... Never ever am I going to update to a .0 of Apple. Its basically a public beta with a lot of fuzz.
I’m never doing a manual upgrade again, it took a full hour for my iPhone 11 Pro to install this update. That seems insanely slow for the amount of data that needs copying, and my flash storage is half empty so it should be quite speedy still!
There are multiple factors that go into this.
Main one on release day being load balancing on the servers.
It also doesn’t help that major releases are typically done by downloading the full image instead of your typical delta update.
Add onto that the process where it creates a compressed backup of your current version for rollback purposes and the verification process to check that your download didn’t end up corrupted and it’ll keep your iPhone busy for a while.
Main one on release day being load balancing on the servers.
It also doesn’t help that major releases are typically done by downloading the full image instead of your typical delta update.
Add onto that the process where it creates a compressed backup of your current version for rollback purposes and the verification process to check that your download didn’t end up corrupted and it’ll keep your iPhone busy for a while.
There is only one thing I wish for. For it to stop butt wallpaper switching. The most retarded feature I have ever seen. I take the phone out of my pocket and I somehow switch wallpapers in the middle of it.
Yeah this is really annoying. I goes I had played around with it when it first came out and created some alternatives with focus modes. I recently stopped using my wallet-like case, so now my screen is exposed in my pocket, and I couldn’t figure out why it kept getting into a meeting focus mode and silencing all my incoming comms!
Please reconsider your use of the r-word. It is offensive, and there are better ways to convey what you mean.
I haven't had this problem (since I don't keep my phone in a back pocket), but still agreed.
Having to long press anywhere on the screen and then swipe side-to-side between lock screens is weird. Just let me swipe sideways on the handle thing at the bottom like for swiping between apps.
Aside from that, my iOS 17 beta impressions are fine, I've been running it since dev betas on my iPad and since public betas on my phone. Only issue was the camera locking up and crashing once.
Having to long press anywhere on the screen and then swipe side-to-side between lock screens is weird. Just let me swipe sideways on the handle thing at the bottom like for swiping between apps.
Aside from that, my iOS 17 beta impressions are fine, I've been running it since dev betas on my iPad and since public betas on my phone. Only issue was the camera locking up and crashing once.
It even gets frozen in the transition to that stupid UI. I'll pick up my phone and it's all blurry and doesn't respond to touch. I am really hoping that's fixed.
why is my phone always getting slower with each new big release?
Should I avoid new versions completely to avoid lowering performance?
I have a 5 year old iPhone running iOS 16 which is snappier than most Android phones out of the box. The only problem I have is that it’s extremely aggressive at killing backgrounded apps due to the tiny amount of RAM and no swap.
However, it isn’t surprising or malicious for Apple to optimise their software for modern hardware. They still seem to do a significantly better job supporting old hardware than anyone else.
Perhaps some components in your phone are dying? If you go into Battery settings, has Peak Performance Capability been reduced?
However, it isn’t surprising or malicious for Apple to optimise their software for modern hardware. They still seem to do a significantly better job supporting old hardware than anyone else.
Perhaps some components in your phone are dying? If you go into Battery settings, has Peak Performance Capability been reduced?
1) You always need to wait a two or day before assessing performance. Often the Spotlight index is being rebuilt.
2) Nobody should ever evaluate anything on a .0 release. Wait a few point releases.
3) I've found the last few iOS/OSX releases to have better performance as their moved to pushing services based revenue.
2) Nobody should ever evaluate anything on a .0 release. Wait a few point releases.
3) I've found the last few iOS/OSX releases to have better performance as their moved to pushing services based revenue.
Safari seems a bit faster to me
Should I upgrade? I don’t want to it to screw over my battery life, I really like my current battery life
If you don't want to upgrade on day one, it's totally fine to wait - but once 17.1 is available I would recommend everyone upgrades. Most issues will be fully resolved.
Has anyone tried it on an XS yet? Are you satisfied with its performance?
My only iOS complaint: no transliteration in search, which Android has.
Does this update actually fix music/podcasting app skipping?
Nope. I’m pretty sure it’s an Apple Music/podcasts server side bug, as I’ve had it happen across numerous iOS/ipados updates and devices including Sonos and Bluetooth. It’s so annoying and sounds like it’s barely skipping a beat but it’s noticeable frequently for me.
Do you have lossless enabled? If so, try disabling it and see if it still happens (yes, it’s sad…)
I do and honestly I’d rather live with the bug on lossless than without on AAC
its tottaly shit, my only favourite feature translate in apple books dissapeared
They aren’t even trying to innovate anymore.
What the new features iOS 17 offering?
This is one of the best iOS updates in years. There are so many great quality of life features and improvements in this release!
could you list the ones you are thinking of?
Sure!
- Automatically deleting text-based and email-based 2FA codes
- Adaptive Transparency with AirPods Pro 2
- Live Voicemail. This one's huge. You can hear and read the VMs that people are leaving and use that context to decide whether to accept or ignore their call. Android's had this for a while; glad to see it in iOS.
There are others, but I can't think of them right now.
- Automatically deleting text-based and email-based 2FA codes
- Adaptive Transparency with AirPods Pro 2
- Live Voicemail. This one's huge. You can hear and read the VMs that people are leaving and use that context to decide whether to accept or ignore their call. Android's had this for a while; glad to see it in iOS.
There are others, but I can't think of them right now.
Wow. That’s quite exciting.
Hands up who read the ts&cs prior to installing clicking agree :-)
Did you read the terms and conditions of HN before commenting? :P
There are no terms and conditions here, afaik
Practically every widely known website you can participate on as a user has terms and conditions, even if they're not linked to on the sign up form. This is to cover for both theoretical and real legal issues down the line.
Multiple timers. Run several timers on iPhone simultaneously, perfect for when you’re cookingWhy was this so hard to implement? Or they just never felt like many people needed it? This has always seemed like a really basic missing feature. I'm surprised it took so long.
It's the perfect "bottom of the backlog" feature. I doubt there's a dedicated Clock app team.
This is such a welcome addition! I totally agree: it likely took all of 30 minutes to implement (plus testing, QA, etc time).
I'd love to see another Clock feature: let me choose a new timer/alarm sound _without_ immediately previewing the sound. At this point I know a handful of my favorites that I like to choose from, and I don't want to hear them at full alarm volume just because I'm changing the noise. A preview button trailing-aligned in the list would be perfect spot for a quick way to listen to an alarm sound.
And a related feature: include Alert Tones (ie Messages alert sounds) in addition to Ringtones as timer/alarm noises.
I'd love to see another Clock feature: let me choose a new timer/alarm sound _without_ immediately previewing the sound. At this point I know a handful of my favorites that I like to choose from, and I don't want to hear them at full alarm volume just because I'm changing the noise. A preview button trailing-aligned in the list would be perfect spot for a quick way to listen to an alarm sound.
And a related feature: include Alert Tones (ie Messages alert sounds) in addition to Ringtones as timer/alarm noises.
Working on a very big but nowhere near as big or far reaching software project, even the most trivial changes take a long time end to end. The design review alone will have taken a long time at apple, without even starting to think about the technicals.
The iPad doesn't even have a native calculator app. The iOS calculator is not part of iPadOS. These kinds of 'basic features' can be really easy to ignore for the flashier stuff that people will potentially use less.
I wonder if they accommodated the issue where you use the timer to "stop playing" (like a sleep timer for Youtube Music) but then the next time you set a timer it's set to stop playing so it makes no noise if you forget to switch off of "stop playing" been bit a few times by that so i remember to switch but that's some pretty bad UX as it makes Siri useless for setting timers
Yes, it's now addressed.
In my view, it didn't make Siri useless for setting timers, it meant there was no universal sleep timer, as I refused to use the "Stop Playing" feature.
In my view, it didn't make Siri useless for setting timers, it meant there was no universal sleep timer, as I refused to use the "Stop Playing" feature.
Timers can be managed via Siri. I’d guess that difficulty of adding that to the barely-working assistant was a blocker.
Siri always thinks I'm saying "fifteen" when I'm saying "fifty". It's annoying because one dish I make often bakes for fifty minutes. At least Siri understands when I say "five zero minutes". I sound like I'm calling in an artillery strike on my kitchen.
Siri saying "Roger" to this is really the only correct response. :-)
I've been bit by adding timers via Siri so many times because I use the timer as a sleep timer for youtube music. So the next day I go to set a timer with siri and its set to "stop playing" which makes no sound and therefore the timer is next to useless. :( So now I just set timers manually but it nullifies Siri.
happy to see this has been fixed in ios17. you can create a "sleep timer" and your siri timer will be created as a new timer with defaults.
It's weirder because the Apple Watch has been able to do it for a while now. I use it all the time.
Probably not a priority or they could not prioritize designing the UX
Ah. So that feature is why my alarms randomly stopped working for part of the beta.
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I don't intend this as criticism at all, but it's quite amusing how routine iOS updates and new iPhone releases have become. I recall being in high school when the first iPhone was introduced, and the sheer novelty of smartphones was awe-inspiring. Nowadays, they've become so commonplace that I find myself getting more enthusiastic about new additions to the Python standard library!
And even though iOS/MacOS updates happen frequently and bring little new each time, they still manage to break lots of stuff each time.
Like how many devs need to recompile their old apps to keep them "compatible", or how the network stack keeps changing destroying our VPN and stuff, or how even programs like Office sometimes won't work.
Like how many devs need to recompile their old apps to keep them "compatible", or how the network stack keeps changing destroying our VPN and stuff, or how even programs like Office sometimes won't work.
I recently rewatched the original keynote where Steve Jobs first announced the iPhone. The thing that struck me was how wild the crowd went when he demoed pinch-to-zoom, something which we basically take for granted nowadays.
It killed the segregated internet for phones. They just figured out how to display normal web pages. And the double tap to zoom in on a column was a pretty big feature too.
I kept waiting for the Apple Watch to have its iPhone 3GS moment, where they came out with one noticeably thinner and with the same or better battery life. But it never came. Is anything they’re a tiny bit taller than the original. Instead they went with a smaller and larger version which is not quite the same.
I still struggle with keeping it on while doing anything that requires work gloves. Make it thinner already.
I kept waiting for the Apple Watch to have its iPhone 3GS moment, where they came out with one noticeably thinner and with the same or better battery life. But it never came. Is anything they’re a tiny bit taller than the original. Instead they went with a smaller and larger version which is not quite the same.
I still struggle with keeping it on while doing anything that requires work gloves. Make it thinner already.
Something weird is going on with Apple Watch.
When the iPhone 12 came out in 2020, we got a new design language. Sharp flat edges were back. Every year since then we’ve been waiting for the watch to get a design update. But still in 2023 it’s the same old fat bubbly design which looks _very_ dated.
I wonder if Apple is waiting for some piece of tech to get better (batteries?), so they can launch a sleeker flatter watch.
When the iPhone 12 came out in 2020, we got a new design language. Sharp flat edges were back. Every year since then we’ve been waiting for the watch to get a design update. But still in 2023 it’s the same old fat bubbly design which looks _very_ dated.
I wonder if Apple is waiting for some piece of tech to get better (batteries?), so they can launch a sleeker flatter watch.
They had a patent on putting auxiliary batteries in the watch band. I was so stoked and then nothing came of it. I’m guessing poor performance or a fire hazard. I waited way too long before I gave up on that every hitting the manufacturing floor.
Often companies sit on patents and do nothing with them simply to ensure their competitors can't use that innovative feature.
> And the double tap to zoom in on a column was a pretty big feature too.
By itself this feature is not a very big deal: Opera Mobile/Mini had it for quite some time before iPhone, I certainly used it a lot. But the whole package the iPhone brought was a game changer for the industry.
By itself this feature is not a very big deal: Opera Mobile/Mini had it for quite some time before iPhone, I certainly used it a lot. But the whole package the iPhone brought was a game changer for the industry.
I remember the era. We had to double click or basically press a zoom button. It was still so bad even with zoom that my first job ended up making mobile/responsive sites because nobody wanted to zoom in and out all the time.
Anything multi-touch at that point was pretty impressive. Up until then touch screens had been single finger only, and often resistive.
Android 14 isn't much better: https://developer.android.com/about/versions/14/features
Grammatical inflection is interesting, though. I'd prefer formality over gendered though, like the difference between du and Sie in German.
Grammatical inflection is interesting, though. I'd prefer formality over gendered though, like the difference between du and Sie in German.
Android "peaked" around v8, maybe v9. Up until then, jumping from one version to the next one really felt worthy of a new major release.
10-13 (haven't used v14 yet) were all just completely forgettable (mostly UI changes, no significant new feature).
10-13 (haven't used v14 yet) were all just completely forgettable (mostly UI changes, no significant new feature).
There were some tightened security features on both Android and iOS in that phase.
Basically a lot of really dark patterns were killed. A free casual game reading all your files. A game with media access being able to "track" you from location information in your photos, without any file or location access. A social media app could be pasting your password from clipboard to their servers. A messaging app which you gave cam/mic access once to could be recording you while it's in background, and converting your audio information via their speech to text.
So a lot of the changes have been around making this behavior really visible. Sure, any app can access your cam/mic, but there's a green light every time it does. Sure, it can copy/paste from clipboard, there will just be a little notification each time.
Basically a lot of really dark patterns were killed. A free casual game reading all your files. A game with media access being able to "track" you from location information in your photos, without any file or location access. A social media app could be pasting your password from clipboard to their servers. A messaging app which you gave cam/mic access once to could be recording you while it's in background, and converting your audio information via their speech to text.
So a lot of the changes have been around making this behavior really visible. Sure, any app can access your cam/mic, but there's a green light every time it does. Sure, it can copy/paste from clipboard, there will just be a little notification each time.
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Almost as if there are now more decent smartphone manufacturers that one can bother to remember, let alone models.
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I have quick question. how can i revert the beta version ios17 to actual ?
aleph_goon(1)
What the heck. I'll give it a go.
Cool! Incoming calls => incoming dick pics
> A new feature, Sensitive Content Warning, helps adult users avoid seeing unwanted nude images and videos.
It looks like there's now a feature you can enable that uses a classifier (I'm guessing?) to identify dick pics, and let you choose whether you want to see it or not. The last slide[0] in the last carousel on the linked page has an image of the dialog.
I bet that was an interesting team to work on.
edit: Obligatory Silicon Valley ref: pt1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACmydtFDTGs pt2: https://youtu.be/dvn-hpZdElo?t=28
[0]https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2023/09/ios-17-is-avai...
It looks like there's now a feature you can enable that uses a classifier (I'm guessing?) to identify dick pics, and let you choose whether you want to see it or not. The last slide[0] in the last carousel on the linked page has an image of the dialog.
I bet that was an interesting team to work on.
edit: Obligatory Silicon Valley ref: pt1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACmydtFDTGs pt2: https://youtu.be/dvn-hpZdElo?t=28
[0]https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2023/09/ios-17-is-avai...
They made it in 2021 if I remember correctly[1]. Was originally designed for children, but they're just now releasing it for general use.
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/10/22613225/apple-csam-scann...
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/10/22613225/apple-csam-scann...
That's a different feature, hashes images and looks them up in a database of CSAM (Child Sexual Abuse Materials) database and then if you have that, reports you to an NGO, not law enforcement.
Why is that so badly photoshopped on what appears to be an original iPhone?
That’s only for known contacts. Maybe you need better friends?
You only add friends to your contacts list?
I wonder if it'll finally have notifications of missed calls, after 16 years.
Ugh, the responses are just depressingly ignorant for a tech site. The iPhone has NEVER had them: https://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/06/will-apple-ever-fix-...
Ugh, the responses are just depressingly ignorant for a tech site. The iPhone has NEVER had them: https://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/06/will-apple-ever-fix-...
Are you talking about some specific implementation that you want? Because I know when I miss a call on iOS...
Edit: they want the "Repeat Alerts" setting that "Messages" has but for "Phone" which is missing the option. Settings > Notifications > Messages > Customize Notifications > Repeat Alerts
Edit: they want the "Repeat Alerts" setting that "Messages" has but for "Phone" which is missing the option. Settings > Notifications > Messages > Customize Notifications > Repeat Alerts
What are you talking about. Of course it has missed call notifications. Always has.
Nope. It has missed-TEXT notifications. After years of complaints about the lack of missed-call notifications, what does Apple do? Add them for TEXTS only. You can have them repeat up to 10 times.
Now go to the nearly-identical settings screen for Phone. NONE.
Here's a post about it. Older, but still true today: https://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/06/will-apple-ever-fix-...
Now go to the nearly-identical settings screen for Phone. NONE.
Here's a post about it. Older, but still true today: https://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/06/will-apple-ever-fix-...
Are you talking about repeated alerts? “Missed Call” is a notification I regularly see in my Notification Center, but it does only make an alert sound once: immediately after the call stops ringing.
You see it. Not hear it. And you only see it if you happen to be staring at your phone.
So yes, this is the whole problem. The fact that Apple finally added audible notifications, but only for texts, is just infantile pettiness on their part. Truly incredible, since the settings screens are otherwise nearly identical.
So yes, this is the whole problem. The fact that Apple finally added audible notifications, but only for texts, is just infantile pettiness on their part. Truly incredible, since the settings screens are otherwise nearly identical.
I think, given the difficulty you're having getting people to understand what exactly is the feature that you're missing, undercuts the idea that it's an essential feature which is inexcusable to not support.
Not really. Try doing a search on the issue. It has been complained about for the iPhone's entire existence. The "not understanding" here reflects the sad acceptance of ever-falling design standards. People forget how much something sucks when they habitually incorporate workarounds to its failings day after day, year after year.
Missed-call notifications were a standard feature on cell phones way before the iPhone (the StarTAC, for example). Not to mention answering machines. Even microwave ovens beep periodically if you forget to take the food out.
But if you miss a call on Apple's $1000 handheld Unix computer/phone, it doesn't make a peep. You don't even have the OPTION to make it do so. That's simply dumb.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251972613 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251039398 https://community.verizon.com/t5/Apple-Archive/Why-no-repeat... https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7470555 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250513009 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254081341 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254081315 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253503860 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2242972
And on and on...
Missed-call notifications were a standard feature on cell phones way before the iPhone (the StarTAC, for example). Not to mention answering machines. Even microwave ovens beep periodically if you forget to take the food out.
But if you miss a call on Apple's $1000 handheld Unix computer/phone, it doesn't make a peep. You don't even have the OPTION to make it do so. That's simply dumb.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251972613 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251039398 https://community.verizon.com/t5/Apple-Archive/Why-no-repeat... https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7470555 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250513009 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254081341 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254081315 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253503860 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2242972
And on and on...
Yeah, after reading the link you posted above, I get what you're talking about. Fully agree. I should be able to select any arbitrary notification and enable repeated alerts for it. Not just calls or texts or whatever, but anything that's important to me not to miss.
What's really baffling is that iOS hides older notifications after some amount of time, or screen unlockings, or something. I like to leave notifications around so I can remember to handle them later when I unlock my phone ("oh yeah, I need to read/respond to that email"). Instead iOS just removes them from my lock screen so I don't see them when unlocking and I forget they exist. They're still there--you can swipe up from the bottom to bring back your hidden notifications--but that requires you to remember they're there, which is the whole reason I didn't dismiss them in the first place.
iOS's notification system is shockingly bad. Android is leagues ahead here, both in features & configurability.
iOS's notification system is shockingly bad. Android is leagues ahead here, both in features & configurability.
Ah, you mean the feature where it plings again after 2 minutes?
Yeah that one is for texts only so far.
But lost calls show up as notifications too. It’s just that they won’t pling again.
Yeah that one is for texts only so far.
But lost calls show up as notifications too. It’s just that they won’t pling again.
What are you talking about
Who are you asking? It must not be me, since there's an elaborate explanation (not that it's needed) above.
to be fair your original unedited comment was so vague no one got it until you clarified with the blog post. so maybe there is something for you to take away there
> since there's an elaborate explanation (not that it's needed)
Clearly the explanationn is needed. Most of us didn't understand what you meant. After grasping what you're asking for, I get your request, and I think it'd be nice if Apple implemented this for you and others, but I don't think iOS is broken, nor would I enable such an option if it were implemented – it wouldn't solve a problem for me.
You might try to understand that you are in a minority in wanting this, and that the current behavior is actually acceptable for the vast majority of iPhone users.
Clearly the explanationn is needed. Most of us didn't understand what you meant. After grasping what you're asking for, I get your request, and I think it'd be nice if Apple implemented this for you and others, but I don't think iOS is broken, nor would I enable such an option if it were implemented – it wouldn't solve a problem for me.
You might try to understand that you are in a minority in wanting this, and that the current behavior is actually acceptable for the vast majority of iPhone users.
I don't buy that. It's just a tiny number of people who
1. Take the time to speak up about it 2. Speak up about it in a forum that you're aware of
Another problem is the diminishing number of people over time who were exposed to more-functional products that were standard in the past. The obvious feature requested here was present on millions of telephonic devices for decades, including cell phones. Android phones have it. But the iPhone is now 15 years old, like many of its users.
The Web is rife with requests for this feature. I posted a tiny sampling of them above.
1. Take the time to speak up about it 2. Speak up about it in a forum that you're aware of
Another problem is the diminishing number of people over time who were exposed to more-functional products that were standard in the past. The obvious feature requested here was present on millions of telephonic devices for decades, including cell phones. Android phones have it. But the iPhone is now 15 years old, like many of its users.
The Web is rife with requests for this feature. I posted a tiny sampling of them above.
I've been using iPhones since 2010 and they have always had this feature.
Really? Where do you set the number of repeats, then?
Here's what Apple added for missed TEXTS, but not for phone calls: https://i.imgur.com/nhCrOcL.png
If you can tell me where to find it for phone calls in iOS, I'll appreciate it.
Here's what Apple added for missed TEXTS, but not for phone calls: https://i.imgur.com/nhCrOcL.png
If you can tell me where to find it for phone calls in iOS, I'll appreciate it.
When hasn't it had a notification for a missed call, modulo whatever bug must be plaguing you?
They sell a convenient wrist monitor for missed calls.
Ha! Let's call it just another dongle.
How do they define "today"? Because I've been running iOS 17 since last week.
EDIT: Seriously, I got notified about the update the day they premiered iPhone 15, I thought that's their standard operating procedure to release software on the same day as hardware. Reading about iOS release today was really confusing.
Is there any "early access" program that I could have unconsciously signed up to, so that's why I did receive it early?
EDIT: Seriously, I got notified about the update the day they premiered iPhone 15, I thought that's their standard operating procedure to release software on the same day as hardware. Reading about iOS release today was really confusing.
Is there any "early access" program that I could have unconsciously signed up to, so that's why I did receive it early?
Today is for the public, but you and the beta testers would have been able to upgrade since the summer.
I think the confusion is that people that have opted into beta updates got full non-beta iOS17 a few days ago.
Makes sense to early access beta users
If only there was some way to segment our user base by risk tolerance... : )
Apps want to access contacts and it’s all or nothing right now. But Contacts also is quite integrated and is better if you fill in more details such as addresses and birthdates.
So an app requesting access gets everything if you grant it.
For Apple‘s pro-privacy stance, this oversight is quite painful.