PC shipments decline slows in Q3 2023, but Apple plunges over 23%(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
PC shipments decline slows in Q3 2023, but Apple plunges over 23%
https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/10/pc-shipments-decline-slows-in-q3-2023-but-apple-plunges-over-23/
85 comments
40 months! Silly me, I've been on the ten year plan.
I just refreshed my hardware as my old gaming rig (top of the line at the time) couldn't run LLM engines or diffusers without overloading the power supply and shutting down in the middle of a run.
I switched to Linux in the process (no Win 11 for me). The only reason for not going Mac desktop is that Nvidia is still the king of the hill for ML workloads.
I just refreshed my hardware as my old gaming rig (top of the line at the time) couldn't run LLM engines or diffusers without overloading the power supply and shutting down in the middle of a run.
I switched to Linux in the process (no Win 11 for me). The only reason for not going Mac desktop is that Nvidia is still the king of the hill for ML workloads.
>40 months! Silly me, I've been on the ten year plan.
The OP missed out a word, it should be the average upgrade cycle for PC ( or specifically Laptops ) is about 40 months. But if you look at Data closely, lots of company buy a new laptop for their employees every 24 months. Some even gets 12 months as some sort of perks.
If you ignores these outliner you will see average drops to 50 to 60 months.
The OP missed out a word, it should be the average upgrade cycle for PC ( or specifically Laptops ) is about 40 months. But if you look at Data closely, lots of company buy a new laptop for their employees every 24 months. Some even gets 12 months as some sort of perks.
If you ignores these outliner you will see average drops to 50 to 60 months.
From my experience, guarantee happens to be three years, but they only get actually replaced when they brake, battery dies, or are no longer able to fulfil project requirements, which means a five year turnover on average.
Maybe FAANG are a bit more open with their wallets.
Maybe FAANG are a bit more open with their wallets.
Yes, at work, it's this. three to five years... stretch if you can. But if the machine is struggling to compile, it isn't worth wasting the time of my engineers on a problem new hardware can fix.
I can usually trust my people to spend some time yak-shaving before they'll ask, so when they ask I take it seriously.
But for personal, non-work equipment... different story. I'll use it until I can't anymore.
I can usually trust my people to spend some time yak-shaving before they'll ask, so when they ask I take it seriously.
But for personal, non-work equipment... different story. I'll use it until I can't anymore.
M1 is just too good. And m2 is way too expensive without much benefit unless you are one of the top end users. Apple even raised price for m2. My mba still works great and the battery isn't even that bad yet
While I understand that Apple is a PC manufacturer for analysis purposes, I think their cycles are likely different than the regular consumer cycles. Even the analyst cited in the article mentions Windows 10 being deprecated in 2024 as a driver for PC shipments, but that does not really apply to Apple.
There is also the M1 possibly having a bit more longevity. Consumer grade Windows laptop usually starts degrading at the 3 years mark because of the battery decaying. Since the M1 had much longer battery life out of the box, it seems likely this adds a delay in the replacement cycle.
After all of this I feel compelled to say, I don't own a Mac or Apple stock, I just think the headline might be slightly misleading.
There is also the M1 possibly having a bit more longevity. Consumer grade Windows laptop usually starts degrading at the 3 years mark because of the battery decaying. Since the M1 had much longer battery life out of the box, it seems likely this adds a delay in the replacement cycle.
After all of this I feel compelled to say, I don't own a Mac or Apple stock, I just think the headline might be slightly misleading.
The lifespan of a laptop is not tied to a replaceable battery - if you buy a new laptop because you have lost 20% battery capacity, then you are making an unsound financial decision.
A laptop does not really degrade much apart from cosmetic wear or physical damages - instead, what the same amount of money can get you changes, and at some point you feel like that cost has been amortized and that the gap between back then and now has increased enough to justify a new purchase. The only reason M1's would last longer in that regard would be stagnation on Apple's behalf.
Same with how the PC market had stagnated with minimal generational improvements until both Ryzen and M1 shook things up in interesting ways.
A laptop does not really degrade much apart from cosmetic wear or physical damages - instead, what the same amount of money can get you changes, and at some point you feel like that cost has been amortized and that the gap between back then and now has increased enough to justify a new purchase. The only reason M1's would last longer in that regard would be stagnation on Apple's behalf.
Same with how the PC market had stagnated with minimal generational improvements until both Ryzen and M1 shook things up in interesting ways.
> The lifespan of a laptop is not tied to a replaceable battery
This applies to me. My laptop is 10 years old, has 16G memory and is running Linux. I have replaced battery once before (and definitely need a new battery again now).
Edit: replace 9 years old with 10 years old
This applies to me. My laptop is 10 years old, has 16G memory and is running Linux. I have replaced battery once before (and definitely need a new battery again now).
Edit: replace 9 years old with 10 years old
Laptops definitely get replaced when the battery stops holding charge, but typically that happens at 5+ Yeats not 3.
In my experience it's: battery goes bad after 2-3 years and then you replace the laptop after 5 years because you are tired of using your laptop as a desktop computer because it shuts down as soon as you unplug it.
Sure after 2-3 years you still have some charge, but it's more like 1 hour when browsing the Internet and not the 6-7 hours that it had originally.
I might just be buying shitty laptops though. Do your phone batteries also last 5 years?
Sure after 2-3 years you still have some charge, but it's more like 1 hour when browsing the Internet and not the 6-7 hours that it had originally.
I might just be buying shitty laptops though. Do your phone batteries also last 5 years?
Does anyone else not just buy a new battery? Fresh install, NVMe SSD, a clean fan and fresh thermal paste, maybe a new WiFi card. Makes a laptop feel new again.
You forgot more ram. OTOH, I've not reinstalled a machine in 15+ years for perf reasons. As I upgrade the machine, what has killed the last few desktop machines has been MS dropping support. Or in the case of linux laptops the fact that I get tired of the eventual tape and bailing wire nature of 5+ year old machines full of dings, dents and broken ports or the CPU perf has finally gotten to the point where I can get >4x perf uplift.
I think it depends on circumstances...
Below a certain dollar amount, the refurbish vs replace from a value standpoint changes quickly.
Below a certain dollar amount, the refurbish vs replace from a value standpoint changes quickly.
You can come up with these excuses and caveats, but at the end of the day they don't matter.
if you have a 401k or really any mutual fund, you own AAPL like it or not...
the M1 is marketed at the right price point to bring in volume sales, and they are still winning converts from Windows
so a decline this deep seems to speak more about rapidly deteriorating consumer activity
the M1 is marketed at the right price point to bring in volume sales, and they are still winning converts from Windows
so a decline this deep seems to speak more about rapidly deteriorating consumer activity
There are many funds other than the Vanguard Index funds (or similar alternatives), and there are definitely ones that don't include AAPL.
Yes.
IT folks that use Apple, wouldn't surprise me if new hires get something from a previous round of layoffs.
Regular consumers, between everything else being more expensive and/or seeing store financing rates go even higher, are more likely to repair their existing device to get by or just stick with a non Apple laptop.
IT folks that use Apple, wouldn't surprise me if new hires get something from a previous round of layoffs.
Regular consumers, between everything else being more expensive and/or seeing store financing rates go even higher, are more likely to repair their existing device to get by or just stick with a non Apple laptop.
I can't imagine Apple's pricing is helping, at least in the UK. We've had high inflation but even as a dev/power user that is usually happy to justify an upgrade every few years, I can't justify it anymore. Comparing my last Macbook Pro 16" purchase in late 2019, with an equivalent current model, the price increase is about £1000. That's insane. £1000 increase in four years.
Electronics have done 25% inflation over this time, or more.
Doesn't help that crypto and then AI back to back killing the consumer GPU market. A lot of people want to buy GPUs to play games but basically they are priced out by the enterprise market.
The GTX 1080 MSRP was $599 in 2016, the RTX 4080 launched $1199 this year.
Much easier to recommend a console nowadays than years ago, even with for example Sony increasing the PS5 price after launch
The GTX 1080 MSRP was $599 in 2016, the RTX 4080 launched $1199 this year.
Much easier to recommend a console nowadays than years ago, even with for example Sony increasing the PS5 price after launch
The vast majority of PC sales aren't desktops, let alone anything with a discrete GPU [1]. The AI craze boosting GPU prices to the moon has very little to do with this.
[1] https://windowsreport.com/desktop-vs-laptop-market-share/
[1] https://windowsreport.com/desktop-vs-laptop-market-share/
It always surprises me that laptops maintained such as large market share over desktops. I'd have thought that as PCs became more of a niche, power user tool (a lot of people only use smartphones these days), desktops would prevail.
Many power users travel often and it's nice to take your computer with you. If the top of the line laptop is powerful enough for your use, then it's a great choice. Power users compute is often in the cloud anyway, so having a powerful home machine is not always useful.
Nobody under the age of 50 can afford to own their own home, which means they are much more likely to be in a small or shared living situation and cannot justify having a desk separate from the table they cook and eat at.
Even people above 50s, see housing crysis in many European countries.
I've noticed that a lot of people hardly know what a desktop PC is anymore. Every PC they use at work is a laptop, and if they buy a PC for themselves it's a laptop. Most people, when they imagine "Computer" -- a laptop flashes in their mind.
The only people who are familiar at all with desktop PCs are gamers. That's why every consumer desktop PC component is called "Stryker Ice Wraith Elite"
Anyone at work who still uses the desktop form factor is a creative person (they use a Mac Studio) or a workstation tower from Dell/Lenovo or similar.
The only people who are familiar at all with desktop PCs are gamers. That's why every consumer desktop PC component is called "Stryker Ice Wraith Elite"
Anyone at work who still uses the desktop form factor is a creative person (they use a Mac Studio) or a workstation tower from Dell/Lenovo or similar.
Why are you comparing the pricing of an RTX 4080 with a console?
From my experience an RX 6650 XT provides me with a similar experience, and I picked that up for £200.
With a Ryzen 5600x from £120 stuck in an Era ITX, it's just a shame that we don't have prebuild Steam Machines like this. That's the only reason I would recommend a console, prebuilts.
Otherwise I'm able to play games that are otherwise only able to be played on one console brand or the other. That's a massive savings.
From my experience an RX 6650 XT provides me with a similar experience, and I picked that up for £200.
With a Ryzen 5600x from £120 stuck in an Era ITX, it's just a shame that we don't have prebuild Steam Machines like this. That's the only reason I would recommend a console, prebuilts.
Otherwise I'm able to play games that are otherwise only able to be played on one console brand or the other. That's a massive savings.
> The GTX 1080 MSRP was $599 in 2016, the RTX 4080 launched $1199 this year.
Nvidia shifted their entire product stack up in the 4000 series - the 4080 should be badged as a 4070.
Nvidia shifted their entire product stack up in the 4000 series - the 4080 should be badged as a 4070.
That wave is gone, previous gen of GPU's are sold very cheaply.
You don’t need an RTX 4080. The 2080 mobile gpu in my laptop is plenty strong to play pretty much anything on the max settings + ray tracing.
I believed you until you mentioned, specifically, "max settings" and that is flat out not accurate with the games released in the past couple of years.
It is accurate for the vast majority of games. There are very few games that actually ask for more. And most of the games that do are trashy AAA games imo.
Edit: maybe more helpful. The highest end recent games I’ve played without any issues at max include Resident evil 4 remake and remnant 2 off the top of my head.
Edit: maybe more helpful. The highest end recent games I’ve played without any issues at max include Resident evil 4 remake and remnant 2 off the top of my head.
And ray tracing on top of that, on a mobile GPU with low power budget. No way. Well maybe if the screen is 720p.
At 1080p right? Not at 1440p or 2160p
Depends on the game I guess. I don’t really care. I find resolution greater than 1080 to be invisible once you’re actually playing a game or watching a show.
DLSS upscaling tends not to work well on my laptop but I also think caring about that is dumb
DLSS upscaling tends not to work well on my laptop but I also think caring about that is dumb
I have a different theory. Mac sales have declined since the mass tech industry layoffs because most tech jobs would buy macs for their new employees. Since they aren’t hiring there’s no need to keep buying new Mac laptops. And mac pc sales outside of tech profession are very low.
> And mac PC sales outside of tech profession are very low.
Can you share any source for this claim? It strikes me as improbable.
Can you share any source for this claim? It strikes me as improbable.
If anything, I suspect individual purchases of Macs are pretty high. It's the routine corporate PC/laptop purchases where Windows dominates. I see a whole lot of Macs in coffee shops that are presumably not all techworkers co-working.
My anecdata (2 jobs at large Fortune 500 companies, 2 jobs at startups) suggests that large corporations run Windows, and it's the startups running Macs.
You are way overestimating the layoffs' impact on Mac shipment. And sorry to inform you that many people laid off are not developers and more likely use Windows over Mac, and even among developers roughly half use Windows or Linux on a PC. (People here seem to think almost every developer uses Mac, but that is very very far from the truth.)
A few thousand (or even ten thousand) tech workers getting laid off isn’t going to move the needle on Mac sales numbers, it’s not like they didn’t all go and get jobs elsewhere anyway.
Most European tech jobs don't buy Macs, unless you're located in rich countries from central and northern Europe.
Windows and Thinkpad/Dell running Linux, on the others.
Otherwise it is mostly for iDevices app development.
Windows and Thinkpad/Dell running Linux, on the others.
Otherwise it is mostly for iDevices app development.
If these people are unemployed (which I doubt), they will buy a new laptop to stay relevant.
Not sure if this is really surprising. Apple released the M2 in the begining of Q3 2022, but in Q3 2023 they did not release any new Mac chip. I expect a significant YoY decline in this case.
OEMs betting on people throwing away working computers due to Windows 11 or AI gimmicks, good luck with those forecasts.
I'm still waiting to buy a mac but I just can't justify paying so much extra for 24-32gb of ram and 1 terabyte ssd. The M series is truly awesome, but 8gb ram with 256gb ssd is just too little
BHPhotoVideo has the M1 Max with 64GB ram and 4TB for $2999. $1900 off. Not a bad discount that’ll last for a while.
Well $2700 for the 14", but you have to understand that 64G of ram is ~$110, and a 4TB ssd is ~$200, and one can get within striking distance of the M2 with a $1200 AMD machine. Ex, base framework laptop + $300 is a much better situation for linux users given the mac is still solidly in the WIP category. Nevermind windows users.
So you can argue about how much better the mac is for costing nearly 2x as much, but it sure isn't 2x unless your already stuck on OSX.
So you can argue about how much better the mac is for costing nearly 2x as much, but it sure isn't 2x unless your already stuck on OSX.
Within striking distance of what, and in what workload?
http://hrtapps.com/blogs/20220427/
https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph17024/117494.png
https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph17024/117495.png
Apple silicon does extraordinarily well in CFD, it does extremely well at compiling, it does extremely well at any sort of JVM workload (IntelliJ) or JavaScript workload.
Also worth noting that as of cinebench 2024, the numbers have really changed, it was unfairly favoring x86 because of a small scene and short dependency chains, CB23 was basically just measuring Simd performance.
http://hrtapps.com/blogs/20220427/
https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph17024/117494.png
https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph17024/117495.png
Apple silicon does extraordinarily well in CFD, it does extremely well at compiling, it does extremely well at any sort of JVM workload (IntelliJ) or JavaScript workload.
Also worth noting that as of cinebench 2024, the numbers have really changed, it was unfairly favoring x86 because of a small scene and short dependency chains, CB23 was basically just measuring Simd performance.
Since I can't edit that other comment: Look at this
https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m2-zen4-mobile
and some other random google hit for zen4 vs m2 (geekbench & passmark)
https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m2-pro-vs-amd-ry... https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m2-max-vs-amd-ry...
The trends seems to be that heavily multithreaded benchmarks seem to do better on the amd machine, and one could argue that the m2 + linux benchmarks aren't quite right due to power mgmt, which is why some of them are run with different governors. And one could argue the 7945hx is a bit big for a laptop, but people have repeatidly shown that hard limiting the TDP by 1/2 or so only takes 10% or so off the top of line per. So, its not at all clear that apple is leading the CPU field at this point. I have a smaller zen based machine that can easily pull ~15H with light usage under linux, so the incredible battery life of the mac's isn't unreachable on the amd either. I personally suspect a large part of the poor battery life on amd/windows machines is largely a windows problem (and on some machines a firmware issue, or the use of nvidia graphics).
So, this isn't to say that the mac isn't a good machine for macos, just that they picked a good time to launch a product, and people now have this idea that their product is world beating, and while its better than much of the trash at your local big box retailer, there are a lot of products in the x86 space. And particularly if your a linux user your going to be alot better served staying away from the mac.
https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m2-zen4-mobile
and some other random google hit for zen4 vs m2 (geekbench & passmark)
https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m2-pro-vs-amd-ry... https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m2-max-vs-amd-ry...
The trends seems to be that heavily multithreaded benchmarks seem to do better on the amd machine, and one could argue that the m2 + linux benchmarks aren't quite right due to power mgmt, which is why some of them are run with different governors. And one could argue the 7945hx is a bit big for a laptop, but people have repeatidly shown that hard limiting the TDP by 1/2 or so only takes 10% or so off the top of line per. So, its not at all clear that apple is leading the CPU field at this point. I have a smaller zen based machine that can easily pull ~15H with light usage under linux, so the incredible battery life of the mac's isn't unreachable on the amd either. I personally suspect a large part of the poor battery life on amd/windows machines is largely a windows problem (and on some machines a firmware issue, or the use of nvidia graphics).
So, this isn't to say that the mac isn't a good machine for macos, just that they picked a good time to launch a product, and people now have this idea that their product is world beating, and while its better than much of the trash at your local big box retailer, there are a lot of products in the x86 space. And particularly if your a linux user your going to be alot better served staying away from the mac.
The gap is a lot closer than those graphs now, the M1->M2 uplift wasn't as large as the zen3->zen4 uplift.
$2999 For the 16”. That’s a great screen and tons of space. Mac has great integration. Everything just works seamlessly between all the devices. The older I get, the more I am willing to pay for convenience.
While using macOS is a much better experience than GNU/Linux, it isn't always it just works.
And people that never used Apple stuff only have to listen to a couple of rants on ATP Podcast, Under the Radar, Swift by Sundel, among others, to validate that.
Specially how they handle Radar issues, and stuff that breaks between releases.
And people that never used Apple stuff only have to listen to a couple of rants on ATP Podcast, Under the Radar, Swift by Sundel, among others, to validate that.
Specially how they handle Radar issues, and stuff that breaks between releases.
Are they simply reverting to the mean after a big pump during COVID lockdown and as a lot of people shifted to work from home?
That's part of it. Many people upgraded early 3 years ago. Combine that with inflation eating away at disposable income and people are extending the usable life of... everything.
I would prefer a comparison to pre- Q4Y20 (release of the M1 mac and the surge of companies replacing Intel macs) and pre- Q2Y20 (start of COVID and WFH mandates). or even Q3Y22 when they come out with the M2. If you trend it against those periods, how much has changed? Is it far below 2019? Companies were rushing to replace all Intel macs after the M2 (when it supported dual monitors), and are now falling into more of the standard 2-3 year upgrade cycle. If you take out those big sales spikes, do the sales look as bad? Or do they fall more in-line with the PC sales slumps?
Here's Canalys' Q32019 report: https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/canalys-global-pc-market-Q3...
They have Apple with 5.4 million shipments in Q3 2019. The matching Q32023 number is 6.4 million, and Q32022 is 9 million.
They have Apple with 5.4 million shipments in Q3 2019. The matching Q32023 number is 6.4 million, and Q32022 is 9 million.
[deleted]
One reason is probably the fact that the M2 is not a significant upgrade over the M1 which makes used M1s a fantastic deal.
I bought an M1 Macbook right when they came out and don't see the need to upgrade for another few years. Probably one of the best bang-for-buck purchases I've made in the recent past.
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Apple sales always get a bump when the new models come out. Q3 2022 had the M2 air and pro come out, this year not much new hence less sales.
Yeah well it wouldn’t if they would finally replace the 27” iMac and not give professionals garbage like the Apple Studio Display.
It's funny, the Studio Display runs on an A13 processor (iPhone 11 equivalent) and could basically be a computer if they wanted it to be. But no, if you want an all-in-one you get a 24" iMac that hasn't been updated in nearly 3 years.
Longest update cycle since at least 2014 and it's not close https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac
Longest update cycle since at least 2014 and it's not close https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac
Depends, my professional work is being done on laptops with docking stations since 2006.
So for a wide spectrum of professionals, that is good enough.
However, you're right, they have nothing to offer to professionals that need towers with replaceable parts.
For those users using a virtual Mac on the cloud isn't also a viable alternative, as Mac hardware is no longer customisable as PCs anyway.
So for a wide spectrum of professionals, that is good enough.
However, you're right, they have nothing to offer to professionals that need towers with replaceable parts.
For those users using a virtual Mac on the cloud isn't also a viable alternative, as Mac hardware is no longer customisable as PCs anyway.
Apple hasn't come out with new machines in a while, so it seems folish to buy before they do.
I wonder how much of Apple PC sales decline is because of anticipation of the M3.
From all the rumors it is going to be a beast, and anybody interested in Apple hardware may want to at least see how it compares. Even if they don’t go with it, M3 will push down the prices of M2 and M1
From all the rumors it is going to be a beast, and anybody interested in Apple hardware may want to at least see how it compares. Even if they don’t go with it, M3 will push down the prices of M2 and M1
For me it was just getting an M silicone. Now that I have one, I don't feel like I am going to be replacing it for a very long time.
Yeah, M1 here. Not even thinking about replacement, not because the M2 and (presumably M3) aren't great, but the M1 MBP is just running perfectly and fast and quiet, I don't really see a need to upgrade yet.
Silicone: boobs
Silicon: sand
Aren't most people buying anything really buying things when there is an immediate need and they have money for it? Computer breaks, buy a new one. Computer is too slow, buy a new one. Most consumers do not track industry news. They have a need and cash so they go to a store and buy what's in it.
Yes, the days of buying new PCs every three years are long gone, despite OEMs hoping otherwise.
I'd be surprised if the mass-market apple hardware consumer was too worried about a potential incoming chipset change.
I doubt the average consumer cares much about any upcoming M3. My wife's last laptop was a 2013 Macbook Air, and during lockdown I guess she decided she needed a new laptop so we got an M1 Air. She can definitely afford to upgrade annually. I expect that to last her until 2030 unless someone steps on it. My current travel laptop I purchased a couple weeks before covid hit, and besides struggling with most new indie games coming out, probably won't upgrade it before 2025 and I used to consider myself a "power user".
As long as vscode and chrome continue to run a rock-solid 60fps in Linux, I don't have much incentive to upgrade. I used to need to upgrade every 2-3 years to stay on the curve but it's such a long tail now, it's usually a hardware failure that necessitates upgrade, rather than technology itself.
As long as vscode and chrome continue to run a rock-solid 60fps in Linux, I don't have much incentive to upgrade. I used to need to upgrade every 2-3 years to stay on the curve but it's such a long tail now, it's usually a hardware failure that necessitates upgrade, rather than technology itself.
Yup, same as with phones and tablets.
The manufacturers (Apple and otherwise) need to keep iterating on technology to make sure their current line is competitive for those who do need to buy, but the sweeping "must upgrade" pressure only arrives when there's an especially disruptive shift.
I suspect that you and your wife will at least consider upgrading sooner once generative AI products and Apple hardware converge on some new "you can only do this revolutionary new thing with the latest Neural Engine chip" milestone, but until then, all three platforms of PC/Phone/Tablet are in a pretty mature and stable phase.
The manufacturers (Apple and otherwise) need to keep iterating on technology to make sure their current line is competitive for those who do need to buy, but the sweeping "must upgrade" pressure only arrives when there's an especially disruptive shift.
I suspect that you and your wife will at least consider upgrading sooner once generative AI products and Apple hardware converge on some new "you can only do this revolutionary new thing with the latest Neural Engine chip" milestone, but until then, all three platforms of PC/Phone/Tablet are in a pretty mature and stable phase.
It's just a single case but I had an 2013 Intel Mac Mini that finally gave up the ghost that was mostly my wife's computer and thought seriously about replacing it with an M2 Mini that could possibly be used for Apple Vision development. But I had an old Alienware laptop that could be pressed into service for that job and figured some other hardware (used Hololens, Quest 2) would be a better investment towards developing that kind of software. Then I got serious about sports photography and any money that might go toward electronics has gone towards gear for that.
The iPhone 15 to me categorically proves m3 will be a pretty incremental improvement, and Apple doesn’t have any other huge changes in the pipeline anytime soon for its laptops. Nor do I think a chipset change will have a significant impact on the average users experience.
It’s either some sort of decline in high end computing generally or with Apple specifically.
As to why Apple specifically would decline, they have become quite a bit less competitive in terms of value for money compared to 3 years ago.
It’s either some sort of decline in high end computing generally or with Apple specifically.
As to why Apple specifically would decline, they have become quite a bit less competitive in terms of value for money compared to 3 years ago.
I agree. As things are it seems doubtful that Apple will be able to increase performance very significantly in the coming years unless they make some drastic change that would require a whole lot of new engineering.
Now they have chips that are low power but also not very competitive at any price point so it's not particularly exciting (batteries are cheap...).
On the higher end chips the power consumption advantage isn't as big of a deal as they make it out to be and doesn't matter that much in real world applications (if you run an M2 Max at full power, you gonna get less than 2h of battery life anyway). But they lose hard particularly in 3D (GPU) applications.
The hope with M3 is that they at least figure out how to make GPU somewhat competitive with similarly priced offerings from NVDIA. As is you can buy a mid range windows laptop and get better perf it doesn't look good...
Now they have chips that are low power but also not very competitive at any price point so it's not particularly exciting (batteries are cheap...).
On the higher end chips the power consumption advantage isn't as big of a deal as they make it out to be and doesn't matter that much in real world applications (if you run an M2 Max at full power, you gonna get less than 2h of battery life anyway). But they lose hard particularly in 3D (GPU) applications.
The hope with M3 is that they at least figure out how to make GPU somewhat competitive with similarly priced offerings from NVDIA. As is you can buy a mid range windows laptop and get better perf it doesn't look good...
> The iPhone 15 to me categorically proves m3 will be a pretty incremental improvement
Unless you care about Mac GPU performance.
"Overall, Apple's claim of up to 20% better performance seems to be right on the money, as is normally the case with these things."
https://www.imore.com/iphone/iphone-15/the-iphone-15-pros-a1...
Unless you care about Mac GPU performance.
"Overall, Apple's claim of up to 20% better performance seems to be right on the money, as is normally the case with these things."
https://www.imore.com/iphone/iphone-15/the-iphone-15-pros-a1...
>The iPhone 15 to me categorically proves m3 will be a pretty incremental improvement,
Um... It is far more likely M3 will be based on A18 rather than A17.
Um... It is far more likely M3 will be based on A18 rather than A17.
The M3 will likely be based on the A17, while the M2 was based on the A15. That will be a more significant jump compared to M1 to M2.
'PC shipments decline slows' == 'PC sales increase'
Why complicate the headline?
Why complicate the headline?
It's not the same, "decline slows" means that the sales are still shrinking, but at a slower pace.
Not the same thing.
The derivative of PC sales is increasing, from a negative number to a less negative number.
It's still shrinking, but shrinking at a lower rate.
The headline is as simple as it needs to be to be accurate.
The derivative of PC sales is increasing, from a negative number to a less negative number.
It's still shrinking, but shrinking at a lower rate.
The headline is as simple as it needs to be to be accurate.
The upgrade cycle for computers is 40 months.
With the move to work from home, or people just spending more time at home during covid, many people upgraded with a 15% increase in 2021 and 16% in 2022.
Everyone felt flush with cash, and wanted something to spend it on.
Now people don't feel rich. I've been waiting to buy a new computer until things get REALLY cheap, and I don't even think we're there yet. Maybe another quarter or 2.
On top of that, what are people upgrading for? I'm avoiding Windows 11, and based on the messages I'm not getting in Windows 10, I'm moving to Linux.
I also have a mac, but I don't love the OS, and the pricing for a new mac with the memory I need/want just doesn't make sense.
My Mom can easily get buy on an 8 year old machine, as long as she's getting security updates. Everything is in the cloud, she has no reason to buy something new.
My nieces and nephews (surprisingly) have chrome books. But they could also easily get buy on an iPad.