Microsoft keeps shooting itself in the foot with Edge(xda-developers.com)
xda-developers.com
Microsoft keeps shooting itself in the foot with Edge
https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-shooting-itself-foot-edge/
55 comments
> People forgot what it was to Google back in the day, where google was always showing a notification box to download their Google Chrome
What do you mean "back in the day"? My daily driver is Firefox, and every other time I go to look something up on Google Maps, it tells me I'd get a better experience using Chrome.
What do you mean "back in the day"? My daily driver is Firefox, and every other time I go to look something up on Google Maps, it tells me I'd get a better experience using Chrome.
I wonder why you get this? I also use Firefox and I don't think I've ever seen this. I am on Linux. Is this a Windows thing?
uBlock vs no uBlock?
I'm using uBlock and specifically rejected all cookies. So maybe it respects my choices and doesn't remember that it's bugged me already and I said no. I'm also using containers and don't open maps in the same container as gmail.
I'm also on Linux.
The rare times I use Windows I use Edge, and I can't remember the last time I've used Google Maps there, so can't tell whether it shows it too.
The rare times I use Windows I use Edge, and I can't remember the last time I've used Google Maps there, so can't tell whether it shows it too.
Ironically, GMaps doesn’t have 3D view on my Google Chrome (macOS). “Download Google Earth” it says.
GMaps in Firefox has 3D views just fine. The experience of browsing GMaps is better in FF than Chrome itself.
GMaps in Firefox has 3D views just fine. The experience of browsing GMaps is better in FF than Chrome itself.
Yes, but back then the other option was Internet Explorer and literally anything else was better than it.
Right now MS is playing the browser game again. And it is beyond me why it thinks people want to use Bing for search.
Sometimes I have this impression that Microsoft has some collective amnesia where they think they’re in the 90s-00s again where they dominanted the market with their tactics. Quite curious why it hasn’t been sued yet by the DOJ.
Right now MS is playing the browser game again. And it is beyond me why it thinks people want to use Bing for search.
Sometimes I have this impression that Microsoft has some collective amnesia where they think they’re in the 90s-00s again where they dominanted the market with their tactics. Quite curious why it hasn’t been sued yet by the DOJ.
Google is bad enough these days that Bing could be seen as an "improvement". M$ might have a shot to make it even better by integrating OpenAI features and not involving their marketing division too much.
Of course, their objective is not to create great software but to monopolize whole sectors and extract value = techno feudalism.
Of course, their objective is not to create great software but to monopolize whole sectors and extract value = techno feudalism.
Bing assistant which is maybe GPT3.5 comes out handy when searching for something. That was the time I started using Bing and it ain't bad.
Bing chat is GPT4 and, in my experience, provides better results than any search engine. I haven't been using search engines at all since they rolled that out. I can just ask GPT and I get a neutral answer without visible ads, sponsorlinks or SEO.
> And it is beyond me why it thinks people want to use Bing for search.
It's not about what people want, it's about the ads they can be shown.
It's not about what people want, it's about the ads they can be shown.
> Quite curious why it hasn’t been sued yet by the DOJ.
A single corporation owns the proprietary OS running what must be upwards of 80% of the world's corporate and government workstations that is known to be laden with copious amounts of telemetry and privacy invading logging is probably quite an attractive partner to the various TLOs of the US government.
I read some fan-fic conspiracy theory that MS is actually a facade for an intelligence agency a couple of decades ago. Getting less and less certain about the weight of "theory" these days.
A single corporation owns the proprietary OS running what must be upwards of 80% of the world's corporate and government workstations that is known to be laden with copious amounts of telemetry and privacy invading logging is probably quite an attractive partner to the various TLOs of the US government.
I read some fan-fic conspiracy theory that MS is actually a facade for an intelligence agency a couple of decades ago. Getting less and less certain about the weight of "theory" these days.
You should read up on Eric Schmidt then. Google's partnership with US authorities is not even a conspiracy theory.
All US corporations are effectively compelled to collaborate with US authorities at any given time. There is some pretend/acting going on for the benefit of paying consumers (like Apple resisting unlocking phones for smalltime cops, while likely passing iCloud data to the big boys), but that's it.
All US corporations are effectively compelled to collaborate with US authorities at any given time. There is some pretend/acting going on for the benefit of paying consumers (like Apple resisting unlocking phones for smalltime cops, while likely passing iCloud data to the big boys), but that's it.
Hey I didn't say Google were any better.
I am also posting these remarks with a tongue in cheek. I am sure they (any) do liaise with government agencies when requested but not that they are primarily intel branches with a retail mask.
I am also posting these remarks with a tongue in cheek. I am sure they (any) do liaise with government agencies when requested but not that they are primarily intel branches with a retail mask.
You would still get that same very behavior whenever you try any Google website in a non chrome
> The only pity would be Windows not respecting default browser choice when opening links.
It does though? Links from Microsoft/Windows applications only open in edge.
It does though? Links from Microsoft/Windows applications only open in edge.
I recently raised this point in a similar thread but I couldn't reproduce it at the time. Yesterday I came across this behavior again in the Settings app of Windows 11 23H2 by clicking on any of the links in the bottom "Related help" section, e.g. Settings -> System -> Display -> Help with Display.
I also remember web results from the start menu opening in Edge before I ran one of those decrapifying scripts which disabled them completely.
I also remember web results from the start menu opening in Edge before I ran one of those decrapifying scripts which disabled them completely.
People forgot that Microsoft lost an antitrust case for this EXACT SAME THING back in the day too. Kinda wild how far consumer/competition-protection has fallen in the past 25 years or so
Microsoft doesn't have a browser monopoly (ok, near monopoly) any more, so antitrust rules doesn't apply.
Par for the microsoft product course. They are the 80%ers - all of their products achieve ~80% of their potential.
Some might argue that's just being prudent and shipping only the minimally marketable features but my riposte to that is the layer upon layer of shit they continue to apply whilst ignoring broken core features on many of their products.
Some might argue that's just being prudent and shipping only the minimally marketable features but my riposte to that is the layer upon layer of shit they continue to apply whilst ignoring broken core features on many of their products.
Edge will die in two years if Microsoft keeps using it to increase views for Bing and MSN. They should remove useless features like news section, bing background image... or at least make it easy for users to disable them.
These are not only useless they cheapen the product. It would be like if you were trying to sell a nice car but it came covered in tabloid headlines and advertisements for chicken.
The Edge team is attached to the Ads division. It will only get worse.
Edge is pretty good. I'd like Firefox to pick up a few of the nice quality of life features Edge has introduced. The obvious example is saving credit card details. Apparently Firefox does this but only in the US?? Bizarre.
> he obvious example is saving credit card details. Apparently Firefox does this but only in the US?? Bizarre.
I am in the UK, use Firefox on Windows and Android, and it constantly asks me if I want to save card details. Annoying.
I am in the UK, use Firefox on Windows and Android, and it constantly asks me if I want to save card details. Annoying.
To clarify, aince I can't edit:
My point was to confirm that FF asks me to store card numbers even though I'm not in the US. I'm sure I could disable this in the settings but I never get around to it. So I have no-one else to blame for my annoyance.
My point was to confirm that FF asks me to store card numbers even though I'm not in the US. I'm sure I could disable this in the settings but I never get around to it. So I have no-one else to blame for my annoyance.
Does it stop when you disable credit card auto completion in the settings?
I have hopes that I may remember to do this some time in 2024.
Check the settings.
Chrome Autofill of my credit card does hit my card with some sort of £0 soft check. It also requests the CVC then doesn't fill it in on the webpage. I guess there are some expectations of Visa/MC that nobody wants to violate.
1Password, at least a couple years ago, did let you store your full CC details.
1Password, at least a couple years ago, did let you store your full CC details.
> 1Password, at least a couple years ago, did let you store your full CC details.
It still does.
It still does.
Firefox does that in the UK and Poland from my experience. I've not actually used the setting because I'm paranoid and prefer to enter them myself, but it is definitely offered.
I did it ONCE and it registered me for Google Pay.
I’d like to pay for Gmail but I don’t want a hegemonic company to have unrestricted access to my credit card. Google’s size is a deterrent to its own growth.
I’d like to pay for Gmail but I don’t want a hegemonic company to have unrestricted access to my credit card. Google’s size is a deterrent to its own growth.
> The problem is that Manifest V3 will affect every browser that currently uses Chromium as a framework
Is this true? Why shouldn't Chromium-based browsers be able to maintain V2 indefinitely?
Is this true? Why shouldn't Chromium-based browsers be able to maintain V2 indefinitely?
Because it's not like it's just a matter of commenting out a line with "if (version > 3){ explode(); }". The whole point of v3 is that it disables a ton of features and extensions points, changing a whole bunch of stuff in various places. Maintaining parallel v2/v3 compatibility will likely be an ever-increasing burden on Chromium forks.
My guess is because the company making that browser would then have to maintain (and patch) those parts of the code once Google stops supporting it?
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What bothers me is the updates are far too frequent, and every time after it updates you need to check every single setting to find which of your privacy-oriented configurations have been freshly compromised.
And of course to bring yourself up-to-date with each newly introduced disappointment.
And of course to bring yourself up-to-date with each newly introduced disappointment.
> Microsoft Edge wants you to do things its way
Should be
> Microsoft wants you to do things its way
It thinks it owns your data, owns any interactions with you, like all corporations do. This is all supported legally. Once it has an online only OS, this will be obvious.
It's a choice to go along with this nonsense, isn't it?
Should be
> Microsoft wants you to do things its way
It thinks it owns your data, owns any interactions with you, like all corporations do. This is all supported legally. Once it has an online only OS, this will be obvious.
It's a choice to go along with this nonsense, isn't it?
Yes, but until it actively blocks people's typical day, it will be low on people's priority list.
Those of us that, for whatever reason, see it coming, should keep calm and steady and keep ocasionnaly presenting our view in a non-confrontational way, and support groups or legislative efforts which may be allies.
If you, like me, don't have the mental bandwidth for all of that, just try to keep frustration to a low when possible and keep rowing for the good side.
Those of us that, for whatever reason, see it coming, should keep calm and steady and keep ocasionnaly presenting our view in a non-confrontational way, and support groups or legislative efforts which may be allies.
If you, like me, don't have the mental bandwidth for all of that, just try to keep frustration to a low when possible and keep rowing for the good side.
> Those of us that, for whatever reason, see it coming, should keep calm and steady and keep ocasionnaly presenting our view in a non-confrontational way
Yes.
> and support groups or legislative efforts which may be allies.
No. Legislative bodies are part of the problem. Most groups too . The governance structure is fascistic already - it is government and corporations working together. The tanker cannot be redirected, it's not a case of voting someone else in.
If that's negative, sorry, but don't blame me. I'd rather deal with reality than a false hope.
The deeper answer for me, lies with each individual. Each of us gets to choose.
Yes.
> and support groups or legislative efforts which may be allies.
No. Legislative bodies are part of the problem. Most groups too . The governance structure is fascistic already - it is government and corporations working together. The tanker cannot be redirected, it's not a case of voting someone else in.
If that's negative, sorry, but don't blame me. I'd rather deal with reality than a false hope.
The deeper answer for me, lies with each individual. Each of us gets to choose.
I see your point.
I counter with: Societies abhor power vacuums. Someone will fill that niche.
So, increased accountability is what's needed.
More good newspapers/magazines with good research/investigation. More literacy. More time to do those things. More money to support good work.
So, increased accountability is what's needed.
More good newspapers/magazines with good research/investigation. More literacy. More time to do those things. More money to support good work.
I see the vacuum issue with societies.
But this talks to the heart of the issue - who has authority over the individual? Is a social structure (laws, convention, the understood history provided by that society, religion etc) superior to an individual and their lived experience? Can we say it is right for society to forcibly extract wealth and resources from those it purports to govern, for the greater good? Or is all that self-serving nonsense, to justify slavery?
And then you might wonder what the purpose of this experience is for oneself. Is it to accommodate oneself to power in the best way one can, accepting it as inevitable, thereby tacitly consenting to the system we find? Or do we even embrace the system, to get all the goodies we can? Or does one grasp at something more intangible such as doing right and being guided by truth and love, trying to recover or even improve one's soul?
But this talks to the heart of the issue - who has authority over the individual? Is a social structure (laws, convention, the understood history provided by that society, religion etc) superior to an individual and their lived experience? Can we say it is right for society to forcibly extract wealth and resources from those it purports to govern, for the greater good? Or is all that self-serving nonsense, to justify slavery?
And then you might wonder what the purpose of this experience is for oneself. Is it to accommodate oneself to power in the best way one can, accepting it as inevitable, thereby tacitly consenting to the system we find? Or do we even embrace the system, to get all the goodies we can? Or does one grasp at something more intangible such as doing right and being guided by truth and love, trying to recover or even improve one's soul?
You're thinking too much.
People crave confort. Be it a god, a church, the state or a feudal lord who promises everything will be alright.
People crave confort. Be it a god, a church, the state or a feudal lord who promises everything will be alright.
> It thinks it owns your data, owns any interactions with you, like all corporations do.
Mozilla is a corporation. Do you hold the same opinion of Firefox?
Mozilla is a corporation. Do you hold the same opinion of Firefox?
Of Mitchell Baker's Mozilla, Inc. the answer is probably "yes" in some way even if that corporation seems to be more bent on manipulating your political opinion than the contents of your wallet.
Of the Firefox browser project the answer is "no" notwithstanding some controversial choices related to the way self-hosted Firefox sync has been deprecated and the shenanigans around Pocket integration.
Of the Firefox browser project the answer is "no" notwithstanding some controversial choices related to the way self-hosted Firefox sync has been deprecated and the shenanigans around Pocket integration.
Yes. Do you think it wouldn't/doesn't hand over your data, if requested to do so by, say, a secret court?
I use ff btw.
I use ff btw.
As long as there is no better alternatives, we don't really have a choice, do we? But I can see all those BS are about to come to an end. To me, Windows have turned into an entertainment system from a production system. Most of the computers I own already run Linux, but I do play games/videos on Windows, once I get rid of those last bits, why would I care what M$ wants?
People forgot what it was to Google back in the day, where google was always showing a notification box to download their Google Chrome. So MS now uses their tactics. But they have grater leverage - they control OS and browser. And in this way they are not shooting themselves in the foot, but trying to keep the casual user base who doesn't care what color their internet gatway is.
The only pity would be Windows not respecting default browser choice when opening links.
And talking about Manifest V3 is some kind of mistake from MS... well, it is a chromium browser, what would you expect? Guess MS doesn't want to fork too deep from chromium. If users care about Manifest V3 then MS greatest competitor - Google - is also out of equation.