Kroger's Digital Struggle(joshstrange.com)
joshstrange.com
Kroger's Digital Struggle
https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/11/krogers-digital-struggle/
79 comments
Where I live, Kroger used to do their own delivery, but they've switched to Instacart for fulfillment now. I've stopped doing Kroger delivery because the Instacart people are WAY too annoying to deal with; I hate having to babysit every single decision the Instacart shoppers make. I would happily pay more for in-house Kroger shoppers, but there's no option to do so.
At my Kroger in the midwest, you have the option for either. But you dont tip when you use Kroger and tbh, they do a much better job at picking out the items. If they went to Instacart only, I would cease to use the service.
Weirdly in Florida Kroger is doing grocery delivery via its own vehicles, but no Kroger stores exist in the state, only distribution centers.
Kroger owns a dizzying number of brands. If be shocked if you didn't have at least one of their supermarket chains there.
There are not. It is by design...
https://www.wesh.com/article/kroger-central-florida/38508663
Kroger delivers groceries to Central Florida without opening a single store
https://www.wesh.com/article/kroger-central-florida/38508663
Kroger delivers groceries to Central Florida without opening a single store
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And a just couple percentage points higher in margins was enough to earn the name "whole paycheck".
My beef with Kroger (since I have nowhere else to put it) is twofold:
1. The Kroger sign on doesn't work with Firefox, so the in-app Kroger SSO thing doesn't work for me. I had to temporarily switch my browser to chrome to log in.
2. They changed the pickup method from sms to in-app. Problem is that not everybody who does curb-side pickup is the same person who has the app installed and logged in. I used to have my wife order and I could confirm presence for pickup from my phone (even a different number!). Now I need to tell my wife to log in, press the button, and tell her what stall I'm parked at.
Both of these didn't used to be a problem as of about a year ago, these are recent regressions in functionality.
1. The Kroger sign on doesn't work with Firefox, so the in-app Kroger SSO thing doesn't work for me. I had to temporarily switch my browser to chrome to log in.
2. They changed the pickup method from sms to in-app. Problem is that not everybody who does curb-side pickup is the same person who has the app installed and logged in. I used to have my wife order and I could confirm presence for pickup from my phone (even a different number!). Now I need to tell my wife to log in, press the button, and tell her what stall I'm parked at.
Both of these didn't used to be a problem as of about a year ago, these are recent regressions in functionality.
Forgot to mention their appallingly bad self-checkout systems - one of the worst I've ever used because of anti-theft measures. I will say I went to Schnuck's the other day and it was actually worse because of their UI.
If you have 10+ items it’s almost guaranteed that you’ll need an attendant at some point. Also why lock out the whole system when you scan alcohol? Let me keep scanning and I’ll show ID when the person gets here.
Hmm, I wonder if this varies from place to place. Ralph's imho has a very easy-to-use system as those things go. Better than costco (which with their receipt checkers, should really give you a gun and not require the placing of all those bulky cartons in the weighing area). Though not as good as target which seems to be the most friendly system.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like infinite scrolling?
I especially don't like it on mobile because it can shift the entire view a lot more, and lead to misclicks. A misclick on mobile might take 2-3x the time to get back where you were compared to desktop.
No. I quite hate it too.
I agree. I’d rather click “load more results” once in a while than rage as I struggle to get to something in the footer I need to click on.
Yeah, if you have a functional footer, you can't have infinite scroll. This is why Kroger isn't doing it.
I’ve seen sites with both a footer and infinite scroll. It is amusing an infuriating to get close enough to the bottom of the scroll area to see the footer peaking out just before the next block of content loads and pushes it out of sight. It would make Kafka smile.
I like "snappy" infinite scrolling for things like yt shorts/tiktok, hate it for long lists.
You're not. Infinite scrolling has long been one of my pet peeves.
> I want better for Kroger
Same company who avoided Apple Pay for years to push their ridiculous Kroger Pay.
Same company who avoided Apple Pay for years to push their ridiculous Kroger Pay.
Walmart/Home Depot/Winco are the only big Apple Pay holdouts that I know of now.
It's annoying but at least with Home Depot you enter your card number in the app and find receipts for all the home widgets you bought that you don't actually need
HEB as well.
Ehh, it at least has its advantage, that you can apply loyalty and payment at the same time. I know Walgreens integrated their loyalty with Apple Wallet too, but in practice that means you have to (ensuring unlocked-ness both times) present the phone to the reader once before the cashier puts it into the payment "mode" and again after. KP is annoying that it takes a couple taps to get its barcode on your screen but at least it's one and done.
You can link the loyalty to the credit card number. You can have more that one loyalty linked to it and just ask the user which one to apply it to.
HomeDepot and the USPS both will send me an email receipt and they remember my address when I put in a credit card.
HomeDepot and the USPS both will send me an email receipt and they remember my address when I put in a credit card.
I could be wrong here, but I don't see how that approach could work efficiently in this case. When the terminal is ready to read your credit card, it has a total 'in mind' already at every place I've ever shopped.
The supermarket, on the other hand, needs your loyalty info first, to decide whether to give you the "sale" price on a bunch of things, and to also redeem coupons. Not only is this convenient, so you can see and confirm expected prices as things ring up, but importantly, your loyalty situation will obviously change the total.
I guess this could be done by authing the worst-case amount and then capturing only the amount you really owe after any "savings" -- but ohhhh boy I can already imagine how many people would be using debit cards and be FREAKED OUT that "Kroger put a hold on my account for more than my grocery bill!!"
The supermarket, on the other hand, needs your loyalty info first, to decide whether to give you the "sale" price on a bunch of things, and to also redeem coupons. Not only is this convenient, so you can see and confirm expected prices as things ring up, but importantly, your loyalty situation will obviously change the total.
I guess this could be done by authing the worst-case amount and then capturing only the amount you really owe after any "savings" -- but ohhhh boy I can already imagine how many people would be using debit cards and be FREAKED OUT that "Kroger put a hold on my account for more than my grocery bill!!"
One way is the moment you give it the credit card it adjusts prices and tells you "You saved $$$", and shows the new total "Approve/Deny".
> When the terminal is ready to read your credit card, it has a total 'in mind' already at every place I've ever shopped.
Only the cheap ones. At Costco I put in and remove my cedit card before they scan anything at all, then when they are done I tell them "already entered it". And the transaction goes through. It's way faster than waiting for the total.
I'm actually annoyed when I go to a store that makes me wait till the total is ready - I'd rather enter the card while the clerk is ringing up my items, and have my hands free and ready to go the second they scan the last time.
> When the terminal is ready to read your credit card, it has a total 'in mind' already at every place I've ever shopped.
Only the cheap ones. At Costco I put in and remove my cedit card before they scan anything at all, then when they are done I tell them "already entered it". And the transaction goes through. It's way faster than waiting for the total.
I'm actually annoyed when I go to a store that makes me wait till the total is ready - I'd rather enter the card while the clerk is ringing up my items, and have my hands free and ready to go the second they scan the last time.
Kroger == toddler-grade stubborn
I feel like the retail grocery industry as a whole is opposed to anything that doesn't get people into the stores, which are designed to maximize profits based on impulse buying. The industry dies without impulse buying. And I'm sort of an expert considering I worked at a grocery store in high school. LOLOLOLOL
Stores cost money to run. It costs money to move goods from regional warehouse to store.
At scale, on demand grocery delivery introduces significant efficiency which probably offsets whatever the reliance on impulse buys.
At scale, on demand grocery delivery introduces significant efficiency which probably offsets whatever the reliance on impulse buys.
It's a strange thing to watch someone admit their own ignorance, and then immediately disregard it, in order to make a case for something that they - by their own admission - can't possibly understand. It's a doublethink poem. I don't think; therefore, I am.
Perhaps the disconnect is his belief that "what I do know is technology and UI/UX." Perhaps he really believes he knows how to build technology like this. But his complaints are those of a person who clearly only thinks of technology, as technology. Not as the stupid redneck in Arkansas who needs to use a shitty mobile connection in order to find out if diapers are on sale yet; but as the lofty technologist, surveying the digital landscape from his 100-gigabit 16-cpu latest-generation pocket powerhouse, flicking through content faster than it can render, concluding that the technological marvel of dreary old-world tech to be wanting.
The poor fools! They don't understand what I, a technology UI/UX expert, want in a mobile app! How foolish that they have not implemented what their competition has. It can only be incompetence. Not to worry though. I, the technological wunderkind, will write a blog post. I will educate them on their shortcomings, and inform them of the correct path to profitability. It's my duty to help these poor sods realize the truth: that they are not yet advanced enough. But with my help, they'll get there.
Perhaps the disconnect is his belief that "what I do know is technology and UI/UX." Perhaps he really believes he knows how to build technology like this. But his complaints are those of a person who clearly only thinks of technology, as technology. Not as the stupid redneck in Arkansas who needs to use a shitty mobile connection in order to find out if diapers are on sale yet; but as the lofty technologist, surveying the digital landscape from his 100-gigabit 16-cpu latest-generation pocket powerhouse, flicking through content faster than it can render, concluding that the technological marvel of dreary old-world tech to be wanting.
The poor fools! They don't understand what I, a technology UI/UX expert, want in a mobile app! How foolish that they have not implemented what their competition has. It can only be incompetence. Not to worry though. I, the technological wunderkind, will write a blog post. I will educate them on their shortcomings, and inform them of the correct path to profitability. It's my duty to help these poor sods realize the truth: that they are not yet advanced enough. But with my help, they'll get there.
You wrote three long paragraphs without mentioning a single point where the big post was wrong or an explanation for one of the shortcomings. Impressive!
Hmm kroger delivery has been working well for me, and glad they are increasingly offering non instacart fulfillment. A little clunky in the UI? Fine, I’ll take that over a polished app that changes the prices on me.
I don’t hate Kroger’s app. If I’m at the store I can search for an item and find out what aisle it’s in. Complaints seem to be more about shopping online.
Can you see the aisle without first adding it to a list?
It's showing the aisle in "search results". Details screens like "buy again" do not show the aisle. I have the mobile app in "in store" shopping mode with a store selected.
I used to use it to plan lists, but now I go straight to paper and only use it to look up sales and tag e-coupons.
I used to use it to plan lists, but now I go straight to paper and only use it to look up sales and tag e-coupons.
Ahh, that’s the trick. I guess mine is always in delivery or pickup mode. But yes, I see it in the search results once I’ve switched to in-store. Annoying that they don’t show it on the detail view. Thank you.
A few months ago, you could see the price in lists. Suddenly that stored.
> Not its fellow grocers, of which there seem to be few
And that's the key. There isn't any competition. Instacart and shipt aren't competition. You are still buying groceries from your local Kroger brand. What it would take to push for real improvement is if another grocery store had an app that was enough better than Kroger's that people preferred to shop at that store instead of Kroger's.
And that's the key. There isn't any competition. Instacart and shipt aren't competition. You are still buying groceries from your local Kroger brand. What it would take to push for real improvement is if another grocery store had an app that was enough better than Kroger's that people preferred to shop at that store instead of Kroger's.
I find their app so annoying to use as well. I don't have the energy to list all the things that drive me crazy, but I've gone back to just using a card for checkout and gas and resigned myself to just overpaying when there's a digital coupon. They push and push us to use their app and the experience is just torture.
They are diametrically opposed to any and all change brought about by competition, technology, and the evolving marketplace. This opposition is so ingrained in their culture and leadership that, like a defiant toddler, this organization can't see past it's own neurosis.
Instacart / Shipt
I’ve given up on using 1st party grocery store website/app.
I just use Instacart or Shipt now instead, due to better UI/UX.
Which is sad for the grocery store because it creates a situation of they become a nameless supplier & you longer have loyalty/affinity anymore.
I’ve given up on using 1st party grocery store website/app.
I just use Instacart or Shipt now instead, due to better UI/UX.
Which is sad for the grocery store because it creates a situation of they become a nameless supplier & you longer have loyalty/affinity anymore.
I’ve considered it many times but they cost 25-30%+ more which I can’t stomach even with a better UI/UX.
$100 instacart gift card for $80-$85 bucks from Costco and other retailers really helps bring down the cost difference for me.
Yeah you're paying so much over actual MSRP on everything it's sad
Instacart's markup is insane, it's like DoorDash levels of extraction for some hitherto unexplained value they allege to provide.
I mean, they are popular, right? Someone must be deriving value or else so many people wouldn't be using Instacart.
Sure, absolutely. They must be popular in some demographic if they consistently come up this much.
Heard a talk by their CEO and I was impressed by his focus on technology as a differentiator and competitive advantage.
I will also say that technology is more than just the website/app - it is also their supply chain and how they run the stores.
I will also say that technology is more than just the website/app - it is also their supply chain and how they run the stores.
Was it their earnings call? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-15/the-ceo-o...
Possibly relevant, but they seem to have a hard time hiring and retaining talent. There's been a consistent player in my LinkedIn inbox from 2018 to present (even post-ZIRP) and that's Kroger engineering recruiters.
Just looked at their tech careers page.
Seems they want to pay folks < 100K onsite in LA? And only marginally more in Seattle?
Combine that with the fact the vast majority of jobs are hybrid in what appears to be middle of nowhere Ohio(Blue Ash, correct me if I'm wrong I'm looking at a map), I can take a few guesses as to why.
Seems they want to pay folks < 100K onsite in LA? And only marginally more in Seattle?
Combine that with the fact the vast majority of jobs are hybrid in what appears to be middle of nowhere Ohio(Blue Ash, correct me if I'm wrong I'm looking at a map), I can take a few guesses as to why.
Blue Ash is a suburb of Cincinnati (where Kroger is headquartered), so not quite the middle of nowhere but also not exactly a tech hotspot.
Thanks. I'm not super well versed in Cinci and didn't mean to insult them as a city, but it seems like Blue Ash is 15 miles from the city center and 30 miles to the airport. Seemed kinda far out accounting for traffic and such. Or is it one of those cities where more is going on in the suburbs than the city proper(lived in one of those myself)?
Blue Ash is a more educated/affluent suburb with significant P&G and Kroger facilities. Probably preferable to a 1hr each way (typical for many suburbs to downtown) commute and paying for parking. Downtown Cincinnati is kind of boring-- there have been a few new places open, but there are better choices for food and entertainment in various other neighborhoods.
I had an interview at Kroger HQ out of college and it was probably the most depressing office building I had ever been in. That combined with the type of work encountered at legacy industry bigco and it has to be hard to recruit anyone decent. (This coming from someone who is wildly inept, too :D)
Their analytics company 84.51/dunnhumby was always the flashier option that could recruit at a national level.
I had an interview at Kroger HQ out of college and it was probably the most depressing office building I had ever been in. That combined with the type of work encountered at legacy industry bigco and it has to be hard to recruit anyone decent. (This coming from someone who is wildly inept, too :D)
Their analytics company 84.51/dunnhumby was always the flashier option that could recruit at a national level.
Dunnhumby is owned by Tesco in the UK afaict. Kroger is just a customer.
Yep, they sold DunnhumbyUSA to Kroger and rebranded to 84.51. They used to have a super visible building right by Fort Washington Way (downtown interstate) and moved closer to Kroger HQ maybe 8-10 years ago after the sale. They still did other shopper card analytics type work, but they are pretty much only Kroger brands (and associated suppliers-- think typical CPG companies) at this point.
It's really not far out of the way -- it's right on 275 (the circle freeway around Cincinnati), and is very much a tech hotspot. Blue Ash is filled with tall office buildings and giant parking lots that house various tech companies -- everyone from Sogeti to Johnson & Johnson to innumerable other players are located in Blue Ash. It's been this way all the way back to the 90's -- always felt like the hotspot for tech jobs. Downtown is a relic for established blue chip companies (like P&G) -- if you're an up-and-coming tech company in Cincinnati, chances are you're in Blue Ash.
Proximity to the airport isn't really a big deal -- the airport isn't even in Ohio and is far away from literally everything. City center isn't a big deal -- that's more important for night life, and it's a pain to get in and out of. Believe it or not, Blue Ash has always felt way more accessible to me than downtown.
The most "happening" shopping center in Cincinnati right now is Kenwood, which is right next to Blue Ash -- overall located near far better retail biomes than downtown. Not everything in Cincinnati is going on in the suburbs (downtown and Newport have seen a big resurgence in years of late), but the north suburbs (like Sharonville, Blue Ash, Fairfield, Kenwood) are still some of the more "up" places in the city.
Proximity to the airport isn't really a big deal -- the airport isn't even in Ohio and is far away from literally everything. City center isn't a big deal -- that's more important for night life, and it's a pain to get in and out of. Believe it or not, Blue Ash has always felt way more accessible to me than downtown.
The most "happening" shopping center in Cincinnati right now is Kenwood, which is right next to Blue Ash -- overall located near far better retail biomes than downtown. Not everything in Cincinnati is going on in the suburbs (downtown and Newport have seen a big resurgence in years of late), but the north suburbs (like Sharonville, Blue Ash, Fairfield, Kenwood) are still some of the more "up" places in the city.
You should go through their recruitment process,for fun.
They seem to be optimized for discarding the best candidates. It's comical.
They seem to be optimized for discarding the best candidates. It's comical.
Do you really think that SWE grads are lining up to work at Kroger?
It's amusing that SWE grads are turning down a real company that provides actual value to millions of customers to work at startups that "dream of changing the world" with yet another social media app. Or AI app. Or whatever the latest silly tech fad happens to be.
No, groceries aren't sexy. But everyone needs to eat, and Kroger will be around long after all of the stupid startups these SWE grads choose to work for have died.
No, groceries aren't sexy. But everyone needs to eat, and Kroger will be around long after all of the stupid startups these SWE grads choose to work for have died.
Kroger was at one time remarkably progressive.
Back in 1992(!) they rolled out a smart-cart system that I can't find any references to because its new (2021) release dominates the SEO.
It was an LCD tablet mounted to the cart that would let you look items up, see a map of the store, and (I think?) play trivia games. I think they showed ads too when idle IIRC.
If you knew to look for them, there were stalactite-looking antennas hanging from the ceiling in a grid pattern all over the store to do triangulation.
It was pretty nifty until they stopped maintaining it.
Back in 1992(!) they rolled out a smart-cart system that I can't find any references to because its new (2021) release dominates the SEO.
It was an LCD tablet mounted to the cart that would let you look items up, see a map of the store, and (I think?) play trivia games. I think they showed ads too when idle IIRC.
If you knew to look for them, there were stalactite-looking antennas hanging from the ceiling in a grid pattern all over the store to do triangulation.
It was pretty nifty until they stopped maintaining it.
Many SWE grads (and even many established devs) seem to have a rather large blind spot. They tend to think that working for an overt software company (and especially a SV-style company) is the only real option.
The reality is that lots of different industries employ software engineers, and many/most of those industries are doing really cutting-edge and interesting things, often much more interesting than your standard SV-style software company.
The reality is that lots of different industries employ software engineers, and many/most of those industries are doing really cutting-edge and interesting things, often much more interesting than your standard SV-style software company.
SWE grads are turning down low pay and low potential, it's that simple.
Kroger is hiring right now, while most tech companies are laying people off.
And quite frankly, what Kroger is offering would have been considered a decent, even good, starting salary before the COVID tech hiring froth warped tech employees' salary expectations.
And quite frankly, what Kroger is offering would have been considered a decent, even good, starting salary before the COVID tech hiring froth warped tech employees' salary expectations.
If the money's right, they'll get enough folks to work for them.
Whoooooooooooooooooole bunch of people work at a whooooooooooooole bunch of places you've never heard of, man. There are so very many companies out there that employ programmers... it's nice if you can get a big Silicon Valley Darling on your resume, but not many folks can, so prestige isn't all that important.
Whoooooooooooooooooole bunch of people work at a whooooooooooooole bunch of places you've never heard of, man. There are so very many companies out there that employ programmers... it's nice if you can get a big Silicon Valley Darling on your resume, but not many folks can, so prestige isn't all that important.
if you live in Texas you will be aware that HEB has invested a lot into their homegrown app, and it really shows.
Great breakdown of the ux issues.
I wrote about the same service a decade ago[0]. Just re-read it and there has been progress!
0: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/1650
I wrote about the same service a decade ago[0]. Just re-read it and there has been progress!
0: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/1650
Safeway has roughly the same level of UI awfulness. If the Kroger & Safeway grocery store megamerger goes through... this could disastrously multiply the UI disaster.
Kroger brought out their Reward card, which caused a large backlash.
Walmart just quietly tracked everyone in their computers without so much backlash.
I see a difference here.
Walmart just quietly tracked everyone in their computers without so much backlash.
I see a difference here.
It's articles like these that make me miss n-gate. Yeah Kroger, be more like Uber! You basically control a bloated gig economy with W2s!
The coupon limit is annoying and not something enforced by all stores. For example Albertsons family stores are unlimited as are dollar general and rite aid. I wrote a chrome extension to clip all the coupons from major retailers across the us. Had to implement logic for places like Kroger that enforce arbitrary limits. It was also an interesting exercise because I noticed a few independent stores that seem to have worked with the same web developer who reused the same template.
https://throwlasso.com for anyone that's interested. It's completely free. Product feedback welcomed.
https://throwlasso.com for anyone that's interested. It's completely free. Product feedback welcomed.
> Albertsons family stores
For now. That will probably change if the deal for Kroger to purchase them goes through. It's getting more and more difficult to avoid shopping at a Kroger store.
For now. That will probably change if the deal for Kroger to purchase them goes through. It's getting more and more difficult to avoid shopping at a Kroger store.
Appears broken for Target right now.
Thanks for the heads up. They modified their UI to use "Apply" when previously it was "Save Offer". I have pushed an update. Usually takes google a couple days to approve. Will be v1.0.2.0
Always happy to submit bugs, they swap the nomenclature pretty often so you may wish to check for both in the future!
And it's even worse in the delivery app subcategory. Why bother with that tech when Instacart etc are losing 3 dollars for every dollar they bring in? Seems like best case scenario you get to sell to their customers at full price and Instacart shareholders pay for delivery fees.