Mexico City may be just months away from running out of water(cnn.com)
cnn.com
Mexico City may be just months away from running out of water
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/25/climate/mexico-city-water-crisis-climate-intl/index.html
35 comments
I doubt those numbers are usefully comparable across cities, as a lot would depend on how much of a city's usage the reservoir held.
So it would need to be days of reserves or something like that.
So it would need to be days of reserves or something like that.
True, would need to assume that over time drought-prone cities converge on a number of days from full for their reservoirs. Unlikely to be the case.
For 39% to be low enough to get to 0 by june though they'd have to get through the whole thing in under a year with no rain.
For 39% to be low enough to get to 0 by june though they'd have to get through the whole thing in under a year with no rain.
Baja California is not that similar to Mexico City, but I will just mention that when I lived in Tijuana and Ensenada for a few years, the water being shut off for a few days or even a week at a time during the summer was fairly common. Many businesses or well-off families have backup water tanks.
But I never saw a point where there wasn't normal bottled or reverse-osmosis water available to buy in stores.
And in northern Baja, although it is semi-arid, the weather is not nearly as variable and the population is minuscule in comparison.
I'm just remembering the times when I had refilled water jugs stockpiled in the bathroom for flushing the toilet. If things get really bad in Mexico City, who knows, but there might be millions of people doing that sort of thing for a month.
And then if it gets to the point where you really can't flush your toilet or get water to drink, times a million people (supposing only a fraction of the 22 million are really cut off for a significant amount of time), times a month, people will get desperate and probably resort to doing things they normally wouldn't in order to survive.
It sounds apocalyptic to me.
But I never saw a point where there wasn't normal bottled or reverse-osmosis water available to buy in stores.
And in northern Baja, although it is semi-arid, the weather is not nearly as variable and the population is minuscule in comparison.
I'm just remembering the times when I had refilled water jugs stockpiled in the bathroom for flushing the toilet. If things get really bad in Mexico City, who knows, but there might be millions of people doing that sort of thing for a month.
And then if it gets to the point where you really can't flush your toilet or get water to drink, times a million people (supposing only a fraction of the 22 million are really cut off for a significant amount of time), times a month, people will get desperate and probably resort to doing things they normally wouldn't in order to survive.
It sounds apocalyptic to me.
> And then if it gets to the point where you really can't flush your toilet or get water to drink
These are not similar standards. If you can't get water to drink, you'll die in a matter of days, maybe about a week.
If water is scarce enough that you don't want to flush your toilet, you'll relieve yourself outside. You'll hit that point long, long, long before not having anything to drink is a risk.
These are not similar standards. If you can't get water to drink, you'll die in a matter of days, maybe about a week.
If water is scarce enough that you don't want to flush your toilet, you'll relieve yourself outside. You'll hit that point long, long, long before not having anything to drink is a risk.
Fossil fuels consume a lot of water. Energy production accounts for around 40 percent of all water withdrawals in the United States[1]. Renewables consume zero gallons of water. Switching to renewables is the easiest solution to all water problems. Also, the cheapest!
[1] https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/3...
[2] U.S. energy system requires an estimated 58 trillion gallons of water withdrawals each year: https://viterbischool.usc.edu/news/2018/08/how-much-water-is...
[1] https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/3...
[2] U.S. energy system requires an estimated 58 trillion gallons of water withdrawals each year: https://viterbischool.usc.edu/news/2018/08/how-much-water-is...
> Energy production accounts for around 40 percent of all water withdrawals in the United States
But “withdrawals” is misleading, in the case of fracking over 93% of the water withdrawn is pumped back in according to your second reference.
> Renewables consume zero gallons of water
Renewable energy uses water during its manufacturing and transport to its site of final use. Solar panels and wind turbines are cleaned with water and even hydropower has a complicated relationship with water availability. It’s not true that renewables use zero gallons.
But “withdrawals” is misleading, in the case of fracking over 93% of the water withdrawn is pumped back in according to your second reference.
> Renewables consume zero gallons of water
Renewable energy uses water during its manufacturing and transport to its site of final use. Solar panels and wind turbines are cleaned with water and even hydropower has a complicated relationship with water availability. It’s not true that renewables use zero gallons.
Should I Clean my Solar Panels?
"While dust and dirt settling on your panels is unavoidable, thankfully, so is rain. Even just a mild and short rain shower will do a sufficient job of cleaning the grime off your panels and will have them performing at their full potential with no effort or money spent.
This is backed by a University of San Diego study where researchers looked at how much energy production was lost due to dust and grime each month during the summer drought. They found that in nearly every situation, hiring a professional to clean your panels is not worth the cost."
https://www.paradisesolarenergy.com/blog/do-solar-panels-nee...
"While dust and dirt settling on your panels is unavoidable, thankfully, so is rain. Even just a mild and short rain shower will do a sufficient job of cleaning the grime off your panels and will have them performing at their full potential with no effort or money spent.
This is backed by a University of San Diego study where researchers looked at how much energy production was lost due to dust and grime each month during the summer drought. They found that in nearly every situation, hiring a professional to clean your panels is not worth the cost."
https://www.paradisesolarenergy.com/blog/do-solar-panels-nee...
Yes, the joys of fracking[2]! "The presence of certain contaminants commonly found in fracking wastewater — including bromide (which can create toxic by-products) and radionuclides, as well as Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) like salts (for which conventional wastewater treatment is largely ineffective) — are of major concern not only because of the potential impacts on rivers, streams and groundwater, but also for downstream water treatment plants, where conventional treatment technologies are not equipped to deal with such contaminants. " https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/fighting-climate-chaos/issues...
Both flowback and produced water may contain (PDF) heavy metals such as barium and lead (PDF), hydrocarbons, naturally occurring radioactive material, and incredibly high levels of salinity. Flowback and produced wastewater can also include chemical additive formulas, with volatile organic compounds (VOCs) such as benzene, ethylene glycol, methanol, and toluene. Between 2005 and 2013, the EPA identified 1,084 chemicals reported in fracking formulas: https://www.consumerreports.org/water-contamination/how-frac...
Wind: on average a wind turbine should be cleaned every 5 to 7 years to achieve maximum performance[1], so 3 - 5 times total in a ~25 year lifespan. This recommendation is from a wind turbine maintenance company, of course they'll recommend these kind of services, just like dealerships recommend changing oils every 3000 miles, when reality is you don't need them that often. I can't imagine wind turbines needing any cleaning with water that rains can't do.
Solar: Can't imagine anyone cleaning panels that would do a better job than rains. Most of the utility scale plants are in deserts, highly unlikely they have any water. A few utility scale plants may wash once or twice a year for better performance.
[1]https://fairwindres.com/wind-industry-maintenance/turbine-cl...
[2] The Latest Fracking Science Finds More Serious Health Risks: https://www.nrdc.org/bio/amy-mall/latest-fracking-science-fi...
Both flowback and produced water may contain (PDF) heavy metals such as barium and lead (PDF), hydrocarbons, naturally occurring radioactive material, and incredibly high levels of salinity. Flowback and produced wastewater can also include chemical additive formulas, with volatile organic compounds (VOCs) such as benzene, ethylene glycol, methanol, and toluene. Between 2005 and 2013, the EPA identified 1,084 chemicals reported in fracking formulas: https://www.consumerreports.org/water-contamination/how-frac...
Wind: on average a wind turbine should be cleaned every 5 to 7 years to achieve maximum performance[1], so 3 - 5 times total in a ~25 year lifespan. This recommendation is from a wind turbine maintenance company, of course they'll recommend these kind of services, just like dealerships recommend changing oils every 3000 miles, when reality is you don't need them that often. I can't imagine wind turbines needing any cleaning with water that rains can't do.
Solar: Can't imagine anyone cleaning panels that would do a better job than rains. Most of the utility scale plants are in deserts, highly unlikely they have any water. A few utility scale plants may wash once or twice a year for better performance.
[1]https://fairwindres.com/wind-industry-maintenance/turbine-cl...
[2] The Latest Fracking Science Finds More Serious Health Risks: https://www.nrdc.org/bio/amy-mall/latest-fracking-science-fi...
[deleted]
Situation is similar even though less dire in Barcelona.
https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/02/01/spain-expected-to-...
https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/02/01/spain-expected-to-...
What's happening to Barcelona recently? The explosion of visible poverty signs everywhere is scary!
I work in the restaurant industry. When the South Africa cities were having severe water shortages, I started to imagine how would they cope. Most of the water in restaurants goes not into the soup, but is used for sanitation.
It's about Mexico City
It's interesting to hear this when places like the Pacific Northwest seem to be getting more rain fall. With a warmer climate, the atmosphere holds more moisture and results in more rain. It's been speculated before, but when will there be a war over water rights between states? Probably a good kernel for a sci-fi story there if not already written.
The Water Knife by Paolo Bacigalupi. Exactly that story and wonderfully done. Essentially a horror story for someone living in California etc.
"California etc." should be California, Arizona, Nevada the story spans much of the west not just California
Arizona is pretty much there already.
Anyone know of some estimates of the (energy) cost of desalinating seawater, vs. shipping in freshwater from where it is plentiful? (as a function of distance).
Doesn't seem too far fetched that in near future, eg. oil tanker ships could be re-purposed for that job.
Doesn't seem too far fetched that in near future, eg. oil tanker ships could be re-purposed for that job.
More rain for Germany too but more in shorter periods of time which makes it dangerous and more water runs of without filling ground water
That's the story pretty much all over Europe: Italy, France, Britain... They all have problems with seasonal floods that are very recent. It's not that they were dry countries before, and overall annual rainfall is often lower than it was in the past, but it creates more problems because it's much more concentrated on shorter and shorter timespans.
"Years of abnormally low rainfall" - at what point does "abnormal" become normal?
Never. That might make it sound less like an emergency.
For example, one of the first things you'll read in the wikipedia article on "Drought" is this:
> The longest drought in recorded history started 400 years ago in the Atacama Desert in Chile and still continues.
For example, one of the first things you'll read in the wikipedia article on "Drought" is this:
> The longest drought in recorded history started 400 years ago in the Atacama Desert in Chile and still continues.
So long as a settlement’s reason for its location has shifted drastically, never.
The population of Mexico City grew from 1 to 20 million in the past century, but let's blame the Spanish in 1500s instead of the decades of populist administrations not investing enough in water reservoirs.
https://archive.ph/rWfix
Ironically, the same kind of left wing populist administrations in Spain are responsible for the same problem due to under-investment in water systems. And it's mostly out of spite because the existing system is one of the main Franco's legacy talking points. So no update in decades and now they blame climate change alone.
https://archive.ph/rWfix
Ironically, the same kind of left wing populist administrations in Spain are responsible for the same problem due to under-investment in water systems. And it's mostly out of spite because the existing system is one of the main Franco's legacy talking points. So no update in decades and now they blame climate change alone.
I thought this was going to be about Phoenix but Mexico city makes sense.
HN should change the title guidelines to include renaming click bait.
"Mexico City may be months away from running out of water" is a better title, and it is, surprisingly, the title of the HTML page this links to.
"Mexico City may be months away from running out of water" is a better title, and it is, surprisingly, the title of the HTML page this links to.
Just updated the title, agree it makes more sense.
I do follow the guidelines, which I understand is to use the title of the page.
I do follow the guidelines, which I understand is to use the title of the page.
The guideline says "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait", so you're both right.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mglz(1)
Is that 39% number deceiving, meaning that the actual supply to Mexico DF would run out sooner?