Ask HN: Starting a business is way harder than Twitter-bros claim. Any advice?
15 comments
You've got further than me! I've spent evenings and weekends over the past 15 months trying to start an online business with 0 revenue to show.
I've also been burned out trying to follow what I've seen other people on Twitter, or even those in my local meetups.
I've come to accept that there's no single set of steps that will guarantee me success. I have to keep trying and seeing what sticks; I still look at what's worked for others, but I also consider my circumstances and adapt to them.
You have to enjoy the journey as well. Just look back at how you were 8 months ago; I'm sure you'll feel proud of all the things you've learned!
I've also been burned out trying to follow what I've seen other people on Twitter, or even those in my local meetups.
I've come to accept that there's no single set of steps that will guarantee me success. I have to keep trying and seeing what sticks; I still look at what's worked for others, but I also consider my circumstances and adapt to them.
You have to enjoy the journey as well. Just look back at how you were 8 months ago; I'm sure you'll feel proud of all the things you've learned!
Thank you kind stranger.
I do look back occasionally and realize that I made a huge leap. Nevertheless, I'm not at a place I thought that I will be. Does not mean I'm not grateful for what I have.
Mind sharing what are you building and how it is going? You can DM me (social are in links in profile) if you don't want to make it public
I do look back occasionally and realize that I made a huge leap. Nevertheless, I'm not at a place I thought that I will be. Does not mean I'm not grateful for what I have.
Mind sharing what are you building and how it is going? You can DM me (social are in links in profile) if you don't want to make it public
> I'm one step away from claiming that their success is pure luck, as in "being in the right time with the right people", rather than some effort that they've put it which helped them acquire customers, and I'm simply unlucky.
It's definitely a lot of luck - but don't think it's just that. Relentless drive and stellar performance in many different fields (tech, marketing, sales etc) is absolutely necessary and practically no amount of luck would help you without that. You have to keep trying to get lucky and be ready to take and milk the opportunity when it happens.
The luck is not in getting customers, though, especially not in B2C. That's just about product-market fit and marketing. I know people who can consistently do it again and again with any product or service that makes sense - and of course appropriate budget.
It's more about luck in B2B if you're just starting out, but again, I know people who can consistently sell anything that makes sense to the customers. They had to get lucky a lot at the beginning, but they went out, met people, pitched, and did it again and again. Do that for enough years and you build a network wide enough to just send a few messages and get clients immediately.
It's just numbers - there is a likelihood you'll meet a big client ready to buy, a likelihood you'll meet an investor today. It's about putting yourself out continuously, every day, to increase the odds you get lucky.
How many cold calls with prospective customers do you have daily? How often do you talk to people who might be interested on LinkedIn or other professional forums/social networks? How often do you attend in-person professional/networking events, conferences, tech talks? If you're not doing that at least few times a week, your odds are very low.
It's definitely a lot of luck - but don't think it's just that. Relentless drive and stellar performance in many different fields (tech, marketing, sales etc) is absolutely necessary and practically no amount of luck would help you without that. You have to keep trying to get lucky and be ready to take and milk the opportunity when it happens.
The luck is not in getting customers, though, especially not in B2C. That's just about product-market fit and marketing. I know people who can consistently do it again and again with any product or service that makes sense - and of course appropriate budget.
It's more about luck in B2B if you're just starting out, but again, I know people who can consistently sell anything that makes sense to the customers. They had to get lucky a lot at the beginning, but they went out, met people, pitched, and did it again and again. Do that for enough years and you build a network wide enough to just send a few messages and get clients immediately.
It's just numbers - there is a likelihood you'll meet a big client ready to buy, a likelihood you'll meet an investor today. It's about putting yourself out continuously, every day, to increase the odds you get lucky.
How many cold calls with prospective customers do you have daily? How often do you talk to people who might be interested on LinkedIn or other professional forums/social networks? How often do you attend in-person professional/networking events, conferences, tech talks? If you're not doing that at least few times a week, your odds are very low.
Hey kind stranger, thanks for the comment.
The problem I have with vague statements such as "being consistent", is it's not a strategy. You can swim as long as you want, but if you are swimming away from shore towards a current that pulls you back, consistency does not matter.
I don't want to believe it luck as the sole factor for success, but based on what I see and my experience, it feels like it is, and I'm loosing faith. There are people who build tools that are far from being the next Facebook or ChatGPT, and they succeed. People who build in a super saturated market and they succeed.
And the entire infomercial sphere is pumping the "consistency is key" mantra, which is very vague and far from a strategy.
No disregard to other makers who built successful but simple products. I use them as an example that even if you build a simple tool, or a tool in a highly saturated market, you can succeed.
Edit: you edited your comment after I posted my reply. In regard to cold calls. I don't see anyone mention it. All successful one-man/side projects I see online who share their story, simply say they built a good product. Nobody talks about customer acquisition. And, maybe it's my problem, I don't see how cold calling/emailing will work. I get cold emails every other day, and most of them are so lame, that I don't understand how people fall into it. But maybe I'm just stupid and idealistic.
The problem I have with vague statements such as "being consistent", is it's not a strategy. You can swim as long as you want, but if you are swimming away from shore towards a current that pulls you back, consistency does not matter.
I don't want to believe it luck as the sole factor for success, but based on what I see and my experience, it feels like it is, and I'm loosing faith. There are people who build tools that are far from being the next Facebook or ChatGPT, and they succeed. People who build in a super saturated market and they succeed.
And the entire infomercial sphere is pumping the "consistency is key" mantra, which is very vague and far from a strategy.
No disregard to other makers who built successful but simple products. I use them as an example that even if you build a simple tool, or a tool in a highly saturated market, you can succeed.
Edit: you edited your comment after I posted my reply. In regard to cold calls. I don't see anyone mention it. All successful one-man/side projects I see online who share their story, simply say they built a good product. Nobody talks about customer acquisition. And, maybe it's my problem, I don't see how cold calling/emailing will work. I get cold emails every other day, and most of them are so lame, that I don't understand how people fall into it. But maybe I'm just stupid and idealistic.
Consistency isn't a strategy, indeed. It's not meant to be. It means you have to keep trying - what strategy you use is a different question. You should make one, try it out a statistically significant amount of times, measure and decide whether to keep it or modify it.
I don't get it. It's very vague. I did everything "correct": I invested in SEO, I had billing setup, I paid for ads, I created a niche product that caters to a specific audience. I ticked all the boxes of classical entrepreneurial literature, and yet I make coffee money from my side project.
I can continue beating it more and more, but I don't see how that's a strategy.
I can continue beating it more and more, but I don't see how that's a strategy.
Let me repeat the edited-in question at the end of my first comment:
How many cold calls with prospective customers do you have daily? How often do you talk to people who might be interested on LinkedIn or other professional forums/social networks? How often do you attend in-person professional/networking events, conferences, tech talks? If you're not doing that at least few times a week, your odds are very low.
I used to build like you, do SEO and marketing, etc. But people buy from people - it's about trust. I got my first client after I finally took the phone and started calling - had to do it for 3 weeks (hundreds of calls, ugh) but it worked out. I got my second client when I went to my ~15th professional event. I had a big streak of luck on my ~20th event - 3 clients after one evening. I'd never get to have this kind of luck if I didn't try 20 times.
How many cold calls with prospective customers do you have daily? How often do you talk to people who might be interested on LinkedIn or other professional forums/social networks? How often do you attend in-person professional/networking events, conferences, tech talks? If you're not doing that at least few times a week, your odds are very low.
I used to build like you, do SEO and marketing, etc. But people buy from people - it's about trust. I got my first client after I finally took the phone and started calling - had to do it for 3 weeks (hundreds of calls, ugh) but it worked out. I got my second client when I went to my ~15th professional event. I had a big streak of luck on my ~20th event - 3 clients after one evening. I'd never get to have this kind of luck if I didn't try 20 times.
I do 0. Zero calls with customers. Because I don't know how to reach my customers. That's why I built a tool and invested in SEO and marketing, so they could come to me. And some did. Some even returned (which I consider a big success given the fact that my tool is designed for one time use).
I don't understand this part. I don't understand how to reach to people, and what do I offer them? Do I build the product beforehand? Do I offer them riches and wonders?
I don't understand this part. I don't understand how to reach to people, and what do I offer them? Do I build the product beforehand? Do I offer them riches and wonders?
I sell software consulting services - a very saturated market. I bought access to a SaaS/database of companies and key management phone numbers, identified which companies use technologies I can offer from their job posts etc, and started calling. Many declined, many were rude to me, but at the end I found one that needed immediate help I could offer.
Offer solutions to problems, not products. Don't talk about all your features - ask them whether they have the problem you're solving and tell them about your solution. You'll have to get creative to get them talking - model situations, past successes and case studies of your other clients... Don't try to milk them - just set a fair price and be open about it, people don't like feeling you're going to take advantage of them. Build rapport, friendship and trust.
Check out how Michael Scott sells. I'm doing it just like him, it really works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYWwfdb2A88
Offer solutions to problems, not products. Don't talk about all your features - ask them whether they have the problem you're solving and tell them about your solution. You'll have to get creative to get them talking - model situations, past successes and case studies of your other clients... Don't try to milk them - just set a fair price and be open about it, people don't like feeling you're going to take advantage of them. Build rapport, friendship and trust.
Check out how Michael Scott sells. I'm doing it just like him, it really works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYWwfdb2A88
I find it hard to believe that every indie hacker who built a successful macOS app/cron runner/uptime monitor--had to go through calling people and asking if they need a habit tracker.
Sure, they might have been active in online communities and "spammed" their app very time someone was looking for a habit tracker, but it's far from cold calling and talking with customers 6 days a week.
I understand that all niches are different. And from what you shared, it seems like you are in a big B2B business, which I believe requires more cold calling. But not everyone is doing consulting or building for big businesses. There are people, here and on other social networks, who build simple SaaS tools or macOS apps that can make a decent living off them.
Sure, they might have been active in online communities and "spammed" their app very time someone was looking for a habit tracker, but it's far from cold calling and talking with customers 6 days a week.
I understand that all niches are different. And from what you shared, it seems like you are in a big B2B business, which I believe requires more cold calling. But not everyone is doing consulting or building for big businesses. There are people, here and on other social networks, who build simple SaaS tools or macOS apps that can make a decent living off them.
Sure, I agree, this is just my own high level strategy that works for me but might not for you and your situation.
From what I saw, marketing is about data and a lot of money. If you don't have that, it's about having a big profile online account that people follow and trust - but I'm just not the person to build that, posting my stream of consciousness multiple times a day makes me cringe and my jokes are not funny. So I went B2B because I spent my career in large enterprises and understand them.
The same thing applies, though - people buy solutions from people they trust.
From what I saw, marketing is about data and a lot of money. If you don't have that, it's about having a big profile online account that people follow and trust - but I'm just not the person to build that, posting my stream of consciousness multiple times a day makes me cringe and my jokes are not funny. So I went B2B because I spent my career in large enterprises and understand them.
The same thing applies, though - people buy solutions from people they trust.
Yes, that makes sense. You grow in the industry you started in.
the reason the "twitter-bros" say it's easy is because what you're missing is their twitter account is their marketing and if they have high followers and good engagement then building to that audiences needs can cover your living costs as a solo dev much easier.
Hey, thanks for the comment.
I started to follow the build in public and solopreneurship movement on social networks a few months ago. And I agree with you. Recently, I feel like this entire community is "indie hackers building tools for indie hackers, while tweeting about their success and MRR to gain more indie hackers to sell tools to".
Which is not bad, but it is what it is.
I started to follow the build in public and solopreneurship movement on social networks a few months ago. And I agree with you. Recently, I feel like this entire community is "indie hackers building tools for indie hackers, while tweeting about their success and MRR to gain more indie hackers to sell tools to".
Which is not bad, but it is what it is.
Why not? A large percentage of GDP is about making things other businesses use to do their business. I'm getting spammed by ads from bigger companies doing the same thing - "become our partner / make money with our products / distribute to others who could make money with our products". Same thing, different niche.
It's a valid niche - and the one you talk about is terminally online, which makes it rather easy to break into.
It's a valid niche - and the one you talk about is terminally online, which makes it rather easy to break into.
For the past 8 or so months, I've embarked on a solopreneurship journey [0].
During that time, I was focused on building an online business/SaaS without much success. I've learned what not to do, and improved something with each new product I launched.
However, I'm slowly loosing faith in the ability to build a one-person business that will pay my bills. I can't live with the though that I'll have to work as an employee for the rest of my career. I gave up on the idea of passive income, or working 4 hours a week, and I at least want to spend my 40-50-60-whatever hours/week working on my own business, rather than building it for someone else.
I tried Micro-SaaS, I tried digital products. Some of them generate money, but it's not enough to quit my job, or switch to say 80% employment.
Twitter influencers portray Micro-SaaS as an easy, holy grail of financial freedom, with people claiming to make north of $10k/month from an AI PDF chat. Reddit bros say that B2C is dead, and the big money is in B2B. And even here, on HN, people share occasionally (in the recurring "one man business" and "side projects that make $500+/m" posts) how they make money from their small businesses or side projects.
I understand that starting a business is way harder than "here, I finished the landing page, now pay me money". But I feel stuck, since I don't know how to progress further.
I tried SEO, I tried paid ads, I tried SaaS and I tried digital products. The only thing I didn't try is B2B with the mindset of "hey big business, I have a [product] that solves your pain, pay me money please" while in reality I have no product. I keep hearing suggestions like "just create a fake landing page" etc, and start developing only after I close my first customer, but I can't seem to feel comfortable selling air.
I feel like I miss something, since I know that not everyone online is a liar, and people do make money from side projects. And I'm one step away from claiming that their success is pure luck, as in "being in the right time with the right people", rather than some effort that they've put it which helped them acquire customers, and I'm simply unlucky. Any advice?
[0] https://www.yieldcode.blog/post/6-lessons-6-months-6-projects/