Ask HN: How do I find a job, in this market with ADHD
46 comments
Send me your resume julien _at_ serpapi.com.
We specialize in hiring people on the spectrum. All our workflows are async, remote-first, transparent-first, in a written format, and don't have a deadline unless absolutely needed. We are almost all - including myself - on the spectrum, and minimize team meetings to 1 per week, allow only 1:1s outside of that, and trust everyone to priotzit their own work outside of tasks assigned specifically to one person.
We specialize in hiring people on the spectrum. All our workflows are async, remote-first, transparent-first, in a written format, and don't have a deadline unless absolutely needed. We are almost all - including myself - on the spectrum, and minimize team meetings to 1 per week, allow only 1:1s outside of that, and trust everyone to priotzit their own work outside of tasks assigned specifically to one person.
> I visited a psychiatrist recently and was diagnosed with ADHD.
Were you prescribed any medication? Just getting a diagnosis is good, and learning some tools to help you cope is great, but honestly medication has done wonders for me when I was taking it. (I'm not going to say which specific one, because I'm not a doctor, and what worked for me may not work for you.)
> And job market has not been so good unless I get enrolled in shady consultancies, which I don't want to.
What sort of shadiness are you talking about? If they're just crappy build-out-six-CRUD-apps-a-week shops, but their paychecks don't bounce... well, rent doesn't pay itself, you know? On the other hand, if they're doing something explicitly immoral or illegal, then yeah, avoid those.
Were you prescribed any medication? Just getting a diagnosis is good, and learning some tools to help you cope is great, but honestly medication has done wonders for me when I was taking it. (I'm not going to say which specific one, because I'm not a doctor, and what worked for me may not work for you.)
> And job market has not been so good unless I get enrolled in shady consultancies, which I don't want to.
What sort of shadiness are you talking about? If they're just crappy build-out-six-CRUD-apps-a-week shops, but their paychecks don't bounce... well, rent doesn't pay itself, you know? On the other hand, if they're doing something explicitly immoral or illegal, then yeah, avoid those.
I can’t recommend this enough. The stigma around people with ADHD taking the medication that they are legally prescribed is toxic. And it’s not your fault.
Watch videos by “how to ADHD” Get involved in the ADHD community. Psychiatrist should also help you provide some resources. There’s a strong psychological component to dealing with a stigma around ADHD, the self loathing. ADHD often co-morbid with anxiety and depression.
Stimulant medication can help with all of these. If anything try it for a month, then stop using it, and see which world you like better.
Personally, I take stimulant medication not so I’m better at work, but so that I have the energy to be a good dad and husband after I’ve already used all of my energy, trying to be a good employee. It really helps.
Watch videos by “how to ADHD” Get involved in the ADHD community. Psychiatrist should also help you provide some resources. There’s a strong psychological component to dealing with a stigma around ADHD, the self loathing. ADHD often co-morbid with anxiety and depression.
Stimulant medication can help with all of these. If anything try it for a month, then stop using it, and see which world you like better.
Personally, I take stimulant medication not so I’m better at work, but so that I have the energy to be a good dad and husband after I’ve already used all of my energy, trying to be a good employee. It really helps.
Using stimulants prescribed for ADHD to have extra pep in your step is drug abuse - just sayin. You see this a lot with adults taking stimulants for ADHD.
When normal activity completely drains you due to a recognized and diagnosed disorder, and you take a prescribed drug to offset that deficit - that’s called “medication”.
It's not drug abuse, it's highly effective medication.
https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence
> Were you prescribed any medication.
Yes I'm hesitant to it because. Im worried about developinand addiction to it.
If you wouldn't mind sharing some insight from your experience how is it.
> What sort of shadiness are you talking about? Lying about my VISA status, experience etc.
Yes I'm hesitant to it because. Im worried about developinand addiction to it.
If you wouldn't mind sharing some insight from your experience how is it.
> What sort of shadiness are you talking about? Lying about my VISA status, experience etc.
I've been taking ADHD medications for 15 years, off and on, and have never developed any dependencies. You may have to experiment a little bit to find the right medication and dosage, but I don't think developing an "addiction" should be a big concern for you. Ask your provider for the lowest therapeutic dose and stick with that for as long as you can. For example, I take 27mg of Concerta (a low-dose of long acting Ritalin) and I barely notice it, except for at the end of the day, I'm like "damn, I just cranked out 6 hours of uninterrupted productive work". If you are genuinely ADHD, it will feel like putting on a pair of corrective lenses for your mind, it's not going to feel like getting high.
Thank you for your advice, I will discuss with my provider about this.
I've been diagnosed with ADHD last year, at the age of 31, and been using methylphenidate since about then. It's not perfect, but it can be a good aid, especially in the beginning.
I was afraid too, because I am prone to get addicted quite fast, but the regular appointments with my psychiatrist and a good portion of will power seem to work. I try not to take it during weekends to slow down the tolerance a bit and to learn to live without it.
Can recommend/10. And as someone else has said here in the comments. It's sad but true, the world does not resolve around "us". So keep fighting, explain yourself where it's needed and try to find your path. It's very hard though
Can recommend/10. And as someone else has said here in the comments. It's sad but true, the world does not resolve around "us". So keep fighting, explain yourself where it's needed and try to find your path. It's very hard though
It’s worth reading up on ADHD from well respected sources, you may have preconceptions that are false - especially about the typical medication prescribed to people with ADHD.
Concerta or Ritalin, for instance, are not like some other mental health drugs where you have to take them regularly without fail to benefit. You can take it one day, benefit for that day, and not take it the next.
If you are worried about dependence, remember, you have a condition, you _need_ dopamine. If you don’t get it via a prescription, you will get it elsewhere. That’s what ADHD behaviour is - you are seeking dopamine. Maybe better from a pill than from narcotics, alcohol, or other antisocial behaviour.
Concerta or Ritalin, for instance, are not like some other mental health drugs where you have to take them regularly without fail to benefit. You can take it one day, benefit for that day, and not take it the next.
If you are worried about dependence, remember, you have a condition, you _need_ dopamine. If you don’t get it via a prescription, you will get it elsewhere. That’s what ADHD behaviour is - you are seeking dopamine. Maybe better from a pill than from narcotics, alcohol, or other antisocial behaviour.
It's usually hard to develop an addiction to these meds unless abused in higher dosages than prescribed. You're more likely to struggle with remembering to take them.
> Yes I'm hesitant to it because. Im worried about developinand addiction to it.
Are you worried about getting addicted to Tylenol? If you broke your femur, would you avoid taking prescribed medication? If you're going to the dentist, do you eschew nitrous oxide and lidocaine?
I mean, yes, it's a concern - people do develop addictions - but with a proper doctor, and taking it as prescribed, the odds are pretty low.
Are you worried about getting addicted to Tylenol? If you broke your femur, would you avoid taking prescribed medication? If you're going to the dentist, do you eschew nitrous oxide and lidocaine?
I mean, yes, it's a concern - people do develop addictions - but with a proper doctor, and taking it as prescribed, the odds are pretty low.
Fight yourself. Fight yourself all day as the world doesn’t revolve around you. Learn how to compensate for tote issues. Do t change up everything, but learn to communicate. Carry something to fidget with that allows your hand to move as much as needed which then allows the body to be a little bit calmer and focused.
I carry a satin sash everywhere that I constantly play with. Always out of sight, but I’m playing with it. It allows me to take some of that energy and spend it there while I fight myself to pay attention.
You’ve stated issues you have focusing on the interview. Work on those. Go get purposely bored and work on those skills.
It’s not fun. It sucks. But you’re not going to change until the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.
I carry a satin sash everywhere that I constantly play with. Always out of sight, but I’m playing with it. It allows me to take some of that energy and spend it there while I fight myself to pay attention.
You’ve stated issues you have focusing on the interview. Work on those. Go get purposely bored and work on those skills.
It’s not fun. It sucks. But you’re not going to change until the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.
> Fight yourself. Fight yourself all day as the world doesn’t revolve around you.
As I can personally attest to, sometimes this just leads to complete burn out and mental break down rather than self-improvement.
OP: Keep going to the person who diagnosed you (or a therapist who focuses on things like ADHD) if possible and absolutely look into getting medicated if you aren't. Medication isn't a silver bullet, but it's been invaluable to me.
As I can personally attest to, sometimes this just leads to complete burn out and mental break down rather than self-improvement.
OP: Keep going to the person who diagnosed you (or a therapist who focuses on things like ADHD) if possible and absolutely look into getting medicated if you aren't. Medication isn't a silver bullet, but it's been invaluable to me.
I agree, if taken literally and to the extreme, fight yourself is bad advice on the long-term as it can lead to burnout and eventually giving up.
It resonates with me however, not so much as battling non-stop, but more so with controlling urges and making yourself voluntarily uncomfortable in an effort to improve.
For example, many people with ADHD have an extremely hard time being bored. This leads to a constant flow of attention to things like mobile devices, TVs, etc. This also tends to deplete dopamine, which further aggravates the ADHD. By making yourself bored, you can both preserve dopamine, but also work on retraining yourself on how to handle downtime. If you are also suffering from electronic addiction, then this helps break the cycle. Jonathan heights new book. The anxious generation is absolutely a must read for people with ADHD. He goes very deep into all of this in a way that is very accessible. There are things that are aggravating my condition that I never considered and have never heard before. I'm sure it is out there as he isn't doing groundbreaking research here, but his ability to organize, filter, and articulate is incredible. I also highly recommend it if you have children.
It resonates with me however, not so much as battling non-stop, but more so with controlling urges and making yourself voluntarily uncomfortable in an effort to improve.
For example, many people with ADHD have an extremely hard time being bored. This leads to a constant flow of attention to things like mobile devices, TVs, etc. This also tends to deplete dopamine, which further aggravates the ADHD. By making yourself bored, you can both preserve dopamine, but also work on retraining yourself on how to handle downtime. If you are also suffering from electronic addiction, then this helps break the cycle. Jonathan heights new book. The anxious generation is absolutely a must read for people with ADHD. He goes very deep into all of this in a way that is very accessible. There are things that are aggravating my condition that I never considered and have never heard before. I'm sure it is out there as he isn't doing groundbreaking research here, but his ability to organize, filter, and articulate is incredible. I also highly recommend it if you have children.
I tried using some fiddling stuff in past around people, it seems to annoy them.
But yeah, having this diagnosis was a relief in a way, it answered the unknown to me.
I'm still learning on how to cope with it, but definitely some helpful suggestions thanks.
But yeah, having this diagnosis was a relief in a way, it answered the unknown to me.
I'm still learning on how to cope with it, but definitely some helpful suggestions thanks.
When I do it, it’s always off camera. If I’m in person, depending who I’m around, if it’s close friends, I’ll just take it out and mess around with it. If not close friends, that’s where the fight comes in.
I had a professor once who I confessed to that I’ve read a paragraph more than 20 times and I don’t remember any of it, even after I just finished reading it. It was in a subject that didn’t interest me too much, and yeah, since I didn’t care too much about it, it was a damn fight to even sit there and get myself through that paragraph, let alone, remember it as there’s a battle going on in my head for attention.
The thing he said to me is something I’ll never forget, and that is, “when you’re going through that material that doesn’t interest you that much or at all, try and find figure out why the author of it found it so interesting. Why did the author spend their time and energy to research and publish this material? Look at it through their eyes and find their interest.” That reframing of how I go about reading has helped me more than almost anything else has.
Find ways to cope, reframe, and understand what feelings lead to what levels of inattention, anxiety, frustrations, etc…
I had a professor once who I confessed to that I’ve read a paragraph more than 20 times and I don’t remember any of it, even after I just finished reading it. It was in a subject that didn’t interest me too much, and yeah, since I didn’t care too much about it, it was a damn fight to even sit there and get myself through that paragraph, let alone, remember it as there’s a battle going on in my head for attention.
The thing he said to me is something I’ll never forget, and that is, “when you’re going through that material that doesn’t interest you that much or at all, try and find figure out why the author of it found it so interesting. Why did the author spend their time and energy to research and publish this material? Look at it through their eyes and find their interest.” That reframing of how I go about reading has helped me more than almost anything else has.
Find ways to cope, reframe, and understand what feelings lead to what levels of inattention, anxiety, frustrations, etc…
Yeah, the annoyance to others is a big thing. I've had success getting stuff that is quiet and sits in my pocket. If you search on Amazon for ADHD fidget toys for adults, you'll find quite a few options. The one that works the best for me, is a little brass cube that has gears on each side. You can spin the gears easily in your pocket without looking , and it is completely noiseless. I also use it during video meetings where I can hold it off camera.
Whatever you do, when you are in front of people, don't pick something that makes noise :-) it will annoy almost everyone, but very few people are willing to tell you.
Whatever you do, when you are in front of people, don't pick something that makes noise :-) it will annoy almost everyone, but very few people are willing to tell you.
Realistically?
1. Find the copes that get you through the day.
2. Don't tell anyone at work. Ever. You will be seen as unreliable and employers don't need to accommodate the kinds of things adhd does to you.
A byproduct of the interview process is that it weeds out people who suck at talking. I took an acting class and that helped me a lot. In the biz we call this Masking.
1. Find the copes that get you through the day.
2. Don't tell anyone at work. Ever. You will be seen as unreliable and employers don't need to accommodate the kinds of things adhd does to you.
A byproduct of the interview process is that it weeds out people who suck at talking. I took an acting class and that helped me a lot. In the biz we call this Masking.
> Find the copes that get you through the day.
Adderall for working hours, weed to calm back and destress down after working hours. It can be really difficult to navigate and contort ourselves to a world that has little tolerance for mental differences, but alas we have no choice so copes are critical.
Adderall for working hours, weed to calm back and destress down after working hours. It can be really difficult to navigate and contort ourselves to a world that has little tolerance for mental differences, but alas we have no choice so copes are critical.
I can't recommend the weed. It will cloud your brain even if used a small amount daily.
Acting class, for helping with interviews is something I've never heard or read till now.
This post is helping me get some diverse perspectives. :)
You’ve already discovered that referrals are a great way to get work, with a side-benefit sometimes that the interviews matter less if not get used less, or if you’re lucky, not at all. If there any people from past jobs who like you and know your work, reach out to them and see if they are aware of any jobs who need someone with your skills.
Do spend a little time researching the company’s interview process. Some companies have live coding interviews and/or take-home coding and put more emphasis on those. I completely blew an interview once on databases, only to still get the offer because I aced the live coding. The live coding “interview” was me being left alone in a room for an hour to write a small text-based game after being handed the game rules.
Lots of people have different ADHD coping mechanisms and different things that help them and varied kinds of self-tricks and results. Could it help you during an interview if you thought about it as you testing them instead of them testing you? Maybe having a goal to collect information you want about the job and the people you’d work with could help with focus? Also remember that asking questions uses up interview time, can give you valuable information, and shows both curiosity and initiative. Be polite and conversational of course, but ask as many questions as you can! ;)
Do spend a little time researching the company’s interview process. Some companies have live coding interviews and/or take-home coding and put more emphasis on those. I completely blew an interview once on databases, only to still get the offer because I aced the live coding. The live coding “interview” was me being left alone in a room for an hour to write a small text-based game after being handed the game rules.
Lots of people have different ADHD coping mechanisms and different things that help them and varied kinds of self-tricks and results. Could it help you during an interview if you thought about it as you testing them instead of them testing you? Maybe having a goal to collect information you want about the job and the people you’d work with could help with focus? Also remember that asking questions uses up interview time, can give you valuable information, and shows both curiosity and initiative. Be polite and conversational of course, but ask as many questions as you can! ;)
Look for companies that do take home coding exercise (projects, not hackerrank quizzes) instead of the leetcode whiteboard stuff. Those tend to focus on quality of work vs verbal timed quizzes, which many good engineers aren't good at. The verbal, in-person stuff tends to favor good-sounding and good-looking people, and awkward types are at a disadvantage to begin with.
This is good advice considering the author says that he tends to mess up interviews by blurting stuff. Leetcode based timed quizzes inevitably optimize for memory recollection i.e if you seen a similar problem from the pool of problems. Trying to balance a binary tree under a 15 minute timer just proves that you’re a puzzle solver and not problem solver. Take a coding exercise to solve at home. Is there a way to filter companies that choose this approach ? Seems like all the top tech jobs require the leetcode method.
This is a good advice. I will try this. Thanks.
ADHD (and many other psychological struggles) can be managed with practice and good habits and time.
You seem to have a desire to change (evidenced by posting here) which is a great signal you are in a place to make changes in life. If you want, you can learn now how to make changes in your life to work with your ADHD and learn to manage it's effects, thereby being more successful than you would have been leaving it undiagnosed and poorly understood. This is a great position to be in! You know are in a position to learn the skills you need to manage the ADHD.
Additionally, you seem to have diagnosed yourself as having a skill deficit with interviewing. This is also a great position to be in. If you want to work on interviewing, which based on your message it sounds like is your weak skill, then invest time (and maybe money) in practicing that skill with the added understanding you have (and skills you are building) about your managing your ADHD.
One way to think about this is to treat interviewing as a separate skill set; there really are lots of online resources that teach you to interview these days. Practice interviewing as a separate skill set.
You can invest in this skill with money; leetcode and other sites really package this as a service. The benefit to you is not that they will grant you a job offer; it's that they will grant you the opportunity to practice in low stakes environments. There are also places online that are pairing people for interview practice.
You can also reach out to people you have worked with previously and say: I want to practice interviewing; would you spend 30 minutes with me doing a mock interview? People love to help each other.
At the same time continue to invest in managing and understanding your ADHD by working with professionals to develop those skills. Combine the two and some time and you can do this.
You'll get this. Hang in there! Feel free to email me if you would like to talk more.
Additionally, you seem to have diagnosed yourself as having a skill deficit with interviewing. This is also a great position to be in. If you want to work on interviewing, which based on your message it sounds like is your weak skill, then invest time (and maybe money) in practicing that skill with the added understanding you have (and skills you are building) about your managing your ADHD.
One way to think about this is to treat interviewing as a separate skill set; there really are lots of online resources that teach you to interview these days. Practice interviewing as a separate skill set.
You can invest in this skill with money; leetcode and other sites really package this as a service. The benefit to you is not that they will grant you a job offer; it's that they will grant you the opportunity to practice in low stakes environments. There are also places online that are pairing people for interview practice.
You can also reach out to people you have worked with previously and say: I want to practice interviewing; would you spend 30 minutes with me doing a mock interview? People love to help each other.
At the same time continue to invest in managing and understanding your ADHD by working with professionals to develop those skills. Combine the two and some time and you can do this.
You'll get this. Hang in there! Feel free to email me if you would like to talk more.
Sounds like you just need interview practice. (Your post seems more about interview nerves than ADHD issues). It’s a different skill, separate from being a good coder. It’s difficult to tell from your post if you have had any interviews yet. You mention “I've never had a real interview after college”. I would specifically look into getting mock interviews where the stakes are low, and get feedback and practice, so you learn how to improve and gain more confidence. You can ask friends, watch YouTube videos (for ideas, but this is not real practice), go to college career networking events, or search for “interview practice” - there are companies and services that offer this. You can get good at this! Good luck!
I am not sure ADHD is such a handicap since you could make an argument that most people in the tech industry are on the autism spectrum. Only small percentage of them can communicate well with proper eye contact.
Perhaps take a break and work on a job that helps you build soft skills?
Interviewing can be trained.
Start with companies you like but are not your preference.
Try to schedule them reasonable spread to have enough time to learn from them but not that you have to keep them waiting for too long on an answer.
Start with companies you like but are not your preference.
Try to schedule them reasonable spread to have enough time to learn from them but not that you have to keep them waiting for too long on an answer.
I have adhd. The only way I can focus, is the keto diet. I encourage you to try a diet of low carb veggies, steak, chicken, nuts, and avocados. It might change your life.
when i did my best rounds of interviewing, i was treating the entire ordeal as a comedy routine.
the goal was not just to get the right answer, but also to make the person interviewing me laugh.
i took a little longer on the questions, but it is way more beneficial to have a comically correct answer after a few seconds than an immediate one that while profound, was misunderstood by everyone but me.
definitely made me be more present in the room than if I'd only been in an interview.
the goal was not just to get the right answer, but also to make the person interviewing me laugh.
i took a little longer on the questions, but it is way more beneficial to have a comically correct answer after a few seconds than an immediate one that while profound, was misunderstood by everyone but me.
definitely made me be more present in the room than if I'd only been in an interview.
Interesting technique, I could try this. But Im sure I have to practice a bit, I tend to land some terrible jokes sometimes, that I cringe about to this day XD.
the entire job market for tech is in a large bust cycle and the internview process is a complete shit show. until these two processes improve I don't know. I'm 49 with 25+ years of experience and haven't worked since august.
I’m not far behind with work ex since 2008. I still have my current job which pays well but I’m going to start looking around because I’m moving closer to nyc. Why’d you say the process is a shit show ? Asking to prepare that’s all.
4 rounds of tech screens when a simple call will suffice.
I’ve been checking layoffs.fyi. Maybe it’s turned a corner but it’s hard to say.
Hear you.
49 is also a tricky age, considered too old.
I am about the same age have faced challenges finding work since covid19 layoffs.
Lie. Religious caste placation positions are not permanent.
Dude get on meds (stims) immediately. They make meds for this and they are highly effective. Your addiction fears are unfounded. https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence
I consider myself a good coder, I'm very creative with my approach to the problems. I pick new things very easily and my skillset is also very diverse. My employers in past have always been happy to have me on team. And always consider me an asset. But one thing I really suck at is interviews. My mouth just can't keep up with my mind and I end up blurting nonsense. I mess up the easiest questions. My skillset doesn't translate to the interview format at all. I fiddle, I get lost. Worst part is, I started my career as a freelancer, then I got an offer from a start-up after being impressed with my work. Then another startup hired me, looking at my work in the previous start-up. And I've never had a real interview after college.
I'm not tensed during the interview, but I just can't bring myself to focus during the duration of interview. I recently completed my masters, and I'm on an F1 status in US. And job market has not been so good unless I get enrolled in shady consultancies, which I don't want to. Anyone who can offer me an advice, I would genuinely appreciate it. Especially if you have been through something similar I would like to learn from you.