IBM and the Holocaust(en.wikipedia.org)
en.wikipedia.org
IBM and the Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
118 comments
This is where government sanctions come in. While some companies may behave morally, we can't expect that they all will when there is money to be made.
If we the people as represented by our government decide that a particular foreign regime is off-limits, then companies are compelled to not do business with them. We don't leave it to choice.
If we the people as represented by our government decide that a particular foreign regime is off-limits, then companies are compelled to not do business with them. We don't leave it to choice.
Shouldn’t individuals and companies also have a set of morals?
Individuals may, but the market doesn't.
So if you want companies to have any form of morality, you need to enforce it. Because otherwise all the ones that do care are just going to be outcompeted and die out, and you'll be left with specifically the worst of the bunch. Organizations and individuals act to their incentives, and if they don't, then they stop existing.
If ethics were self-enforcing, then we wouldn't need to be talking about it. We have laws against killing and stealing because without those laws, killing and stealing are a shockingly effective way to get ahead.
So if you want companies to have any form of morality, you need to enforce it. Because otherwise all the ones that do care are just going to be outcompeted and die out, and you'll be left with specifically the worst of the bunch. Organizations and individuals act to their incentives, and if they don't, then they stop existing.
If ethics were self-enforcing, then we wouldn't need to be talking about it. We have laws against killing and stealing because without those laws, killing and stealing are a shockingly effective way to get ahead.
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I think the moral obligation is slightly different when you have capabilities that no other firm has. I believe IBM falls into that category then, a company like ASML would now. Google Cloud would not: Israel can get cloud services anywhere.
(note this is true regardless of your feelings on the morality of Israel's government's choices)
(note this is true regardless of your feelings on the morality of Israel's government's choices)
So, "If I didn't do it, then somebody else would, so I may as well take the profit for myself"?
Or "As long as I'm not the only one who's complicit, it's okay"?
Or "As long as I'm not the only one who's complicit, it's okay"?
If anything, "Israel can get cloud services anywhere" is an argument that Google should be even less inclined to take their money. If they have alternatives, it's not even as much money as it would be if they don't.
> I think the moral obligation is slightly different when you have capabilities that no other firm has.
hmmm... I don't know if that argument holds water.
for example, the corollary would be that your obligation is less if other firms have the capability?
although AI and choosing bombing targets is pretty horrible, I think surveillance tech ("advertising") is something more fundamental that everyone should think more about.
hmmm... I don't know if that argument holds water.
for example, the corollary would be that your obligation is less if other firms have the capability?
although AI and choosing bombing targets is pretty horrible, I think surveillance tech ("advertising") is something more fundamental that everyone should think more about.
> regardless of whether I can subscribe to all of their principles
Sure, being able to work with people who have different values is a noble thing. But what about whether or not they observe international law?
This is like a business saying "I cooperate with all customers, regardless of their criminal nature". That is a quite different statement.
Sure, being able to work with people who have different values is a noble thing. But what about whether or not they observe international law?
This is like a business saying "I cooperate with all customers, regardless of their criminal nature". That is a quite different statement.
There is a line between saying "I am a business person and therefore I don't judge people with different values" and saying "I am a business person and therefore I expect not to be judged for my lack of ethical behavior".
Yes, understanding and cooperating with people of very different values can be noble or evil, it depends entirely on what those different values are.
Also, legality doesn't have a close relation to morality, so cooperating with people regardless of legality can also be noble or evil.
Also, legality doesn't have a close relation to morality, so cooperating with people regardless of legality can also be noble or evil.
As a complication, it's important to state that concentration camps were not against international laws at the time! Pursing racist and eugenic policies was in vogue, and many of Germany's concentration camps were toured and audited by the Red Cross before the war!
It's because of the holocaust that we thankfully have changed our collective attitude about such things. But in 1939, people's knowledge of the racial atrocities happening was very restricted, so I don't think we can underrate just how naïve some people where at the time.
It's because of the holocaust that we thankfully have changed our collective attitude about such things. But in 1939, people's knowledge of the racial atrocities happening was very restricted, so I don't think we can underrate just how naïve some people where at the time.
I don't think eugenics by means of killing people was ever widely considered moral or even a gray area.
What happened a lot at the beginning of WWII was that people didn't know what was happening at the concentration camps. And yes, there were some twisted moral templates at the time based on racism and dehumanization.
What happened a lot at the beginning of WWII was that people didn't know what was happening at the concentration camps. And yes, there were some twisted moral templates at the time based on racism and dehumanization.
> I don't think eugenics by means of killing people was ever widely considered moral or even a gray area.
Oof, how I wish that were true. You may be interested in Pernick, Martin (1999): The Black Stork: Eugenics and the Death of "Defective" Babies in American Medicine and Motion Pictures since 1915.
Several nations (the US included) were well on their way to "Great Society" ideas of shaping the next generation by controlling genetics (be that in who reproduced or who was allowed to live). A lot of experiments ended abruptly when the Allies reached the camps, and a lot of politically-powerful institutions have kicked dirt over their own pasts to try and help people forget that's where we were headed.
(Quite a few experiments did not; forced sterilization wasn't outlawed in the US until, IIRC, the eighties).
Oof, how I wish that were true. You may be interested in Pernick, Martin (1999): The Black Stork: Eugenics and the Death of "Defective" Babies in American Medicine and Motion Pictures since 1915.
Several nations (the US included) were well on their way to "Great Society" ideas of shaping the next generation by controlling genetics (be that in who reproduced or who was allowed to live). A lot of experiments ended abruptly when the Allies reached the camps, and a lot of politically-powerful institutions have kicked dirt over their own pasts to try and help people forget that's where we were headed.
(Quite a few experiments did not; forced sterilization wasn't outlawed in the US until, IIRC, the eighties).
You might want to read a bit more about Margaret Sanger and her little project called "Planned Parenthood."
Indeed, the US had their own camps that they filled with Japanese, Germans, Italians and a few others. Of course they were relatively nicer to the people placed in the camps.
Doesn't that lead to absurdities, though? Like, is McDonald's morally required to avoid serving known fentanyl dealers?
I think McDonald's would condemn and distance itself from a high-profile customer or partner that was responsible for highly illegal activity like that. Like it did with Russia.
Exactly. The CEO is speaking in doublespeak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP07oyFTRXc)
Like when Twitter declined to remove ISIS propaganda due to their liberal principles
ISIS propaganda isn't a crime, and anyone can be smeared as an ISIS propagandist for questioning any military decision or explanation (it's almost exclusively how Anglo-American politics is done these days.) Using unwritten and unconstitutional speech crimes as the benchmark for criminality is scary. Call me when some military contractor is helping jihadists find targets in Syria.
Yep that liberal company that’s owned by Trump. ISIS is the GOP, they both believe the same things about women.
dingnuts(2)
I know this topic resurfaced due to the Googler protest scandal but nothing really changed under the surface since then. A lot of western corporations are still active in Russia today after the invasion. Corporations don't heave a soul or moral compass, they don't care who they hurt or kill, they just follow the money.
French concrete corporation Lafarge was caught funding terorism by paying ISIS to leave their concrete trucks lone in Syria and all they got was a fine from the US government. Nestle is responsible for a shit tonne of infant mortality in impoverished nations and IKEA for major deforestation and nothing really happened to them despite preaching how much they care about people and the environemnt.
I still maintain my PoV that if the execs were to face jailtime or a trail at The Hague instead of petty corporate fines that become part of the cost of doing business, companies would be a lot more mindful on how humane they earn their money. Bring the downvotes, I made peace with it.
French concrete corporation Lafarge was caught funding terorism by paying ISIS to leave their concrete trucks lone in Syria and all they got was a fine from the US government. Nestle is responsible for a shit tonne of infant mortality in impoverished nations and IKEA for major deforestation and nothing really happened to them despite preaching how much they care about people and the environemnt.
I still maintain my PoV that if the execs were to face jailtime or a trail at The Hague instead of petty corporate fines that become part of the cost of doing business, companies would be a lot more mindful on how humane they earn their money. Bring the downvotes, I made peace with it.
Actually things have changed for IBM. Speaking as an IBM employee, but not on behalf of IBM, my team (and I suspect all others) had to identify any work done by Russian IBM employees and then subsequently divested ourselves of those employees and offices during the start of the invasion of Ukraine.
Throwaway for obvious reasons. Do you mean that you've "divested" yourselves from the employees of Russian IBM branch or from anyone who's a Russian national?
The company I work for is in the process of being acquired by IBM. Even though I'm located in Europe, I have Russian citizenship. Does it mean that I'm also going to be "divested from" after the acquisition is complete?
The company I work for is in the process of being acquired by IBM. Even though I'm located in Europe, I have Russian citizenship. Does it mean that I'm also going to be "divested from" after the acquisition is complete?
Not OP, but I believe for most companies including IBM the policy was "anyone residing within Russia who did not wish to or could not relocate outside of Russia" would be terminated. If you did relocate (and I believe some assistance was provided) then you were fine.
I work for an IBM subsidary, and to the best of my knowledge this is how it worked. One of my coworkers is a Russian expat (and I believe still citizen) living in Europe and they were unaffected.
I work for an IBM subsidary, and to the best of my knowledge this is how it worked. One of my coworkers is a Russian expat (and I believe still citizen) living in Europe and they were unaffected.
> Corporations don't heave a soul or moral compass, they just follow the money.
It's less true that corporations don't have a soul or moral compass and more so that they reflect the soul and moral compass of their owners. Anti-semitism was common amongst the US business and intellectual classes, and many companies - IBM included - were run by people who sympathized with Hitler's ideals.
The uncomfortable truth is that the US and Nazi Germany were a lot more similar in terms of their ideology than the propaganda leads people to believe. Hitler even credited the US' policies of genocide against native Americans, eugenics and racial discrimination as inspiration.
It's less true that corporations don't have a soul or moral compass and more so that they reflect the soul and moral compass of their owners. Anti-semitism was common amongst the US business and intellectual classes, and many companies - IBM included - were run by people who sympathized with Hitler's ideals.
The uncomfortable truth is that the US and Nazi Germany were a lot more similar in terms of their ideology than the propaganda leads people to believe. Hitler even credited the US' policies of genocide against native Americans, eugenics and racial discrimination as inspiration.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin for an example of US ideology aligned with Hitler's.
The business plot [1] was the potential inflection point in the USA where fascism could have enveloped the nation. (IMO). We got lucky. We STILL are getting lucky.
This stuff is why businesses need to be equally owned by the workers that do all the work. That power and wealth is diffused throughout the population, not concentraighted in the hands of a few men with fewer morals.
The inequity of our way of life is a existential threat.
[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
This stuff is why businesses need to be equally owned by the workers that do all the work. That power and wealth is diffused throughout the population, not concentraighted in the hands of a few men with fewer morals.
The inequity of our way of life is a existential threat.
[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
It seems entirely possible that the business plot succeeded, just with someone other than Smedley Butler as the figurehead. Despite Smedley informing congress of the plot, it seems no disciplinary action was taken against the conspirators.
I’m feeling that this submission might be more apropos of Gaza than the Russian invasion.
Yeah, the sanctions against Russia were among the most severe in history, and widely observed by Western corporations. That they failed is a different discussion. Meanwhile, BDS is a "hate crime".
BDS is not a hate crime, but the movement is hateful in the methods it employs. It assumes all Jewish entities are guilty by association, unless they make an effort to proclaim their ideological alignment with anti-Israel ideology. Jews are seen by this movement as Zionist-by-default until they declare otherwise, and it takes a very small amount of circumstantial evidence to be targeted for boycott.
We don’t treat other ethnic or religious groups this way. We shouldn’t treat anyone this way.
We don’t treat other ethnic or religious groups this way. We shouldn’t treat anyone this way.
I think you are making things up; if not, can you give an example of a "Jewish entity" with no significant links to Israel that was explicitly targeted by BDS?
I can give many examples of non-Jewish businesses with links to Israel that have been targeted by BDS.
I can give many examples of non-Jewish businesses with links to Israel that have been targeted by BDS.
https://www.adl.org/boston-mapping-project
Also I never questioned that some targets are non-Jewish. There being some non-Jewish targets who support the self-determination of the people of Israel doesn’t invalidate targets that are placed on synagogues, day cares, schools, community centers, bagel shops, etc on specious grounds.
Also I never questioned that some targets are non-Jewish. There being some non-Jewish targets who support the self-determination of the people of Israel doesn’t invalidate targets that are placed on synagogues, day cares, schools, community centers, bagel shops, etc on specious grounds.
I didn't investigate all of the obviously Jewish entities in the "Mapping Project", but I looked up half a dozen and all but one of them had explicit "we support Israel in their conflict with Palestine" language at least, and some were actively raising funds for that explicit purpose. (note that most of the list is non-Jewish organizations)
I'm not local, but I did see random internet comments to the effect that "most local Jewish organizations aren't listed", so it seems plausible that the list might in fact be limited to Zionist organizations and those who do business with htem?
Besides that, remember that the ADL in particular has a history of mapping projects of its own, and went beyond that to actually committing crimes. Either mapping of bigots is acceptable or it is not; the one stance that is obviously wrong is that only some types of bigots are allowed to be mapped.
I'm not local, but I did see random internet comments to the effect that "most local Jewish organizations aren't listed", so it seems plausible that the list might in fact be limited to Zionist organizations and those who do business with htem?
Besides that, remember that the ADL in particular has a history of mapping projects of its own, and went beyond that to actually committing crimes. Either mapping of bigots is acceptable or it is not; the one stance that is obviously wrong is that only some types of bigots are allowed to be mapped.
They are targeting Zionists. That the most active Zionist actors are Jewish doesn’t make it a witch hunt based on religion. Also lol at the level of Main Character Syndrome involved in using a phrase like “the self-determination of the people of Israel” - I wonder if any other people in those parts could do with some self-determination?
That example is appalling and indefensible.
I think it's important to note that it has been condemned by BDS.
According to the website you linked to - "Even the BDS Movement has called on BDS Boston, a group promoting the Mapping Project, to cease doing so"
I don't know more about the issue than what you shared, and do not know the structure of BDS, but decentralised groups are vulnerable to their sort of thing where one autonomous group undertakes actions that are entirely unacceptable.
It's one of the reasons it is so important for groups to stamp out antisemitism within their own ranks and not let it fester.
I think it's important to note that it has been condemned by BDS.
According to the website you linked to - "Even the BDS Movement has called on BDS Boston, a group promoting the Mapping Project, to cease doing so"
I don't know more about the issue than what you shared, and do not know the structure of BDS, but decentralised groups are vulnerable to their sort of thing where one autonomous group undertakes actions that are entirely unacceptable.
It's one of the reasons it is so important for groups to stamp out antisemitism within their own ranks and not let it fester.
Others have brought up good points about why this is a weak example.
Anyways, do you think ADL should be defined by its loose association with genocidal extremists like Itamar Ben-Gvir? Because that's the level of guilt-by-association that you are recommending here.
Anyways, do you think ADL should be defined by its loose association with genocidal extremists like Itamar Ben-Gvir? Because that's the level of guilt-by-association that you are recommending here.
and Ukraine is still on track to lose the war even after all that sanction
Western companies exiting Russia created several Russian billionaires overnight
Resulting in more tax revenues and money staying within that country
I'm sorry but Western virtue signaling impact is routinely over-exaggerated and actually achieves the complete opposite of what it set out to do
Western companies exiting Russia created several Russian billionaires overnight
Resulting in more tax revenues and money staying within that country
I'm sorry but Western virtue signaling impact is routinely over-exaggerated and actually achieves the complete opposite of what it set out to do
Sanctions do work, but anyone claiming that they would single handedly crush the Russian economy in a matter of months were delusional, especially due to all of the avoidance going on through Turkey and Kazakhstan.
Nonetheless, it does add a lot of friction that slowly grinds away at the economy.
For example:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russias-arctic-l...
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-sp...
Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics, manpower shortages due to the war, wartime spending, and corruption. Right now they're coasting on what's left of their reserves, but those are finite. Their economy won't outright collapse but it will get more and more inefficient and fragile.
Nonetheless, it does add a lot of friction that slowly grinds away at the economy.
For example:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russias-arctic-l...
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-sp...
Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics, manpower shortages due to the war, wartime spending, and corruption. Right now they're coasting on what's left of their reserves, but those are finite. Their economy won't outright collapse but it will get more and more inefficient and fragile.
[deleted]
yet the sanctions are doing little to change the outcome in the battlefield
Russia is clearing pulling out ahead and its delusional to think that Ukraine even had a chance to begin with
Quantity always wins over quality.
Russia is clearing pulling out ahead and its delusional to think that Ukraine even had a chance to begin with
Quantity always wins over quality.
>Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics
Do you think Ukraine's demographics are doing any better?
I live in western Europe and every day I hear Ukrainian on the streets . Wherever you go in Europe, Germany, Luxembourg, Ireland, etc. it's full of Ukrainians (mostly women and youngsters). How do you think Ukraine's chances of success look like when all their women and youngsters are living abroad? Those are you future and they're not where they're needed most but building up other countries future and economies.
Ukraine is dying the slow death. If Russia doesn't do it, their demographics will. Even if they "win", the victory gained will be bombed out land hosting mostly scarred men and elderly pensioners. How is that a victory?
Do you think Ukraine's demographics are doing any better?
I live in western Europe and every day I hear Ukrainian on the streets . Wherever you go in Europe, Germany, Luxembourg, Ireland, etc. it's full of Ukrainians (mostly women and youngsters). How do you think Ukraine's chances of success look like when all their women and youngsters are living abroad? Those are you future and they're not where they're needed most but building up other countries future and economies.
Ukraine is dying the slow death. If Russia doesn't do it, their demographics will. Even if they "win", the victory gained will be bombed out land hosting mostly scarred men and elderly pensioners. How is that a victory?
> Do you think Ukraine's demographics are doing any better?
How is that relevant to the discussion? I only brought it up in the context of Russia not being able to compensate for sanctions with their internal economic output.
How is that relevant to the discussion? I only brought it up in the context of Russia not being able to compensate for sanctions with their internal economic output.
Especially when your leaders, elites telling economically disenfranchised Ukranian men to a meat grinder while they themselves live abroad and have acquired German citizenship
I remember reading this book when it came out in 2002 and the expanded version in 2012.
It made a largely circumstantial case for IBM's involvement in the holocaust.
Yes - the following things are true:
* Germany used IBM Tabulating Equipment to compile its racial census.
* Deutsch Reichsbahn used IBM Punched Card equipment to run most of its operations.
* The German Government made extensive use of IBM Punched Card equipment to track prisoners, including in the concentration camps.
Beyond those three facts the case is basically circumstantial - Black made a bunch of suppositions when drawing his conclusions -
* IBM New York knew all of the particulars of use of its tabulating equipment, and what the outcomes would be.
* IBM New York had defacto continuing control of its german subsidiary (Dehomag) even after it was functionally nationalized.
* IBM New York provided technology and parts thru IBM Geneva.
* Profits from Dehomag were funneled thru IBM Geneva to IBM New York.
* Most glaringly, he asserts that IBM Punched Card technologies were the only way to do what Nazi Germany did at the scale it did it at.
However he makes the assertions without much backing evidence for it, and its all clouded in an aura of leading purple prose.
This article presents a pretty concise version of the gaping flaws in the book - https://muse.jhu.edu/article/33853
Most notably, the book leaves out important context - even if everything he supposed about IBM were true, what IBM did wasn't unique, it was common corporate practices at the time, indeed, many american corporations had similar subsidiaries, all of whom at a minimum contributed to the german war effort.
It made a largely circumstantial case for IBM's involvement in the holocaust.
Yes - the following things are true:
* Germany used IBM Tabulating Equipment to compile its racial census.
* Deutsch Reichsbahn used IBM Punched Card equipment to run most of its operations.
* The German Government made extensive use of IBM Punched Card equipment to track prisoners, including in the concentration camps.
Beyond those three facts the case is basically circumstantial - Black made a bunch of suppositions when drawing his conclusions -
* IBM New York knew all of the particulars of use of its tabulating equipment, and what the outcomes would be.
* IBM New York had defacto continuing control of its german subsidiary (Dehomag) even after it was functionally nationalized.
* IBM New York provided technology and parts thru IBM Geneva.
* Profits from Dehomag were funneled thru IBM Geneva to IBM New York.
* Most glaringly, he asserts that IBM Punched Card technologies were the only way to do what Nazi Germany did at the scale it did it at.
However he makes the assertions without much backing evidence for it, and its all clouded in an aura of leading purple prose.
This article presents a pretty concise version of the gaping flaws in the book - https://muse.jhu.edu/article/33853
Most notably, the book leaves out important context - even if everything he supposed about IBM were true, what IBM did wasn't unique, it was common corporate practices at the time, indeed, many american corporations had similar subsidiaries, all of whom at a minimum contributed to the german war effort.
> even if everything he supposed about IBM were true, what IBM did wasn't unique
Not only an ethically irrelevant assertion, but additionally a scientifically irrelevant assertion: one cannot be expected to research all subjects in all contexts. Black investigated the subject for which he had observations. The rest is up to the rest of us.
Not only an ethically irrelevant assertion, but additionally a scientifically irrelevant assertion: one cannot be expected to research all subjects in all contexts. Black investigated the subject for which he had observations. The rest is up to the rest of us.
He claimed in 2002, after the book was published, to have found additional evidence that IBM established a Polish subsidiary after Germany invaded Poland to sell machines to the Nazi government.
https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/The-business-of-makin...
https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/The-business-of-makin...
Though I also read the book, I don't remember the details of DEHOMAG control via Switzerland, but I would be surprised if there wasn't a paper trail of directives from Armonk, NY via the Swiss to maximize DEHOMAG's market.
I do remember that Coca-Cola in Germany was not able to use the formula for the eponymous soft drink, and developed Fanta during this time. I do not imagine that much secrecy in tabulating machines was present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehomag
Looking over the DEHOMAG wiki, there are some curious facts...
"Watson had received Order of the German Eagle medal at the Berlin ICC meeting in 1937, but after Nazis' pogroms against Jews started in 1938 Watson himself wanted to distance himself and IBM from Germans but was convinced not to do so by Secretary of State Hull and he gave up the idea until spring of 1940.
"Leon Krzemieniecki, the last surviving person involved in the administration of the rail transportation to Auschwitz and Treblinka, stated he knew the punched card machines were not German machines, because the labels were in English. Income from the machines leased in General Government was sent through Geneva to IBM in New York."
I do remember that Coca-Cola in Germany was not able to use the formula for the eponymous soft drink, and developed Fanta during this time. I do not imagine that much secrecy in tabulating machines was present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehomag
Looking over the DEHOMAG wiki, there are some curious facts...
"Watson had received Order of the German Eagle medal at the Berlin ICC meeting in 1937, but after Nazis' pogroms against Jews started in 1938 Watson himself wanted to distance himself and IBM from Germans but was convinced not to do so by Secretary of State Hull and he gave up the idea until spring of 1940.
"Leon Krzemieniecki, the last surviving person involved in the administration of the rail transportation to Auschwitz and Treblinka, stated he knew the punched card machines were not German machines, because the labels were in English. Income from the machines leased in General Government was sent through Geneva to IBM in New York."
The issue is, there isn't a paper trail - now TJ Watson wasn't a big leaver of paper either. He learned at working at NCR - but this was an era when international phone calling was prohibitive.
Providing x to china will be the same with hindsight.
[deleted]
Google and Amazon are actively involved in the largest man-made famine since WWII, and we’re not even allowed to discuss it on HN (you know the conflict I’m talking about, every post about the genocide gets flagged immediately).
And also submissions that are tangentially related (look up)…
EDIT: not flagged any more :)
EDIT: not flagged any more :)
This is true, It was absolutely ridiculous to see even UN articles getting flagged to death. All the while absolute propaganda were still actively get promoted. An argument can be made that HN has to not keep discussions going to flamewar. I would acknowledge that I have learned much kore about the issues through HN. And it is much more clear to me that the responsibility almost completely lies on the west, both colonial and neo colonial entities there.
What is even more surprising is that US under Reagan, of all people, had cut off aid and stabilised Israel aggression much more than the current government. Yet, we have bipartisan support for the apartheid genocide machine when they commit even more cruel crimes against humanity.
What is even more surprising is that US under Reagan, of all people, had cut off aid and stabilised Israel aggression much more than the current government. Yet, we have bipartisan support for the apartheid genocide machine when they commit even more cruel crimes against humanity.
Which one. There’s a few ongoing right now.
Ethiopia in the 1980s?
While this is an important part of history to know, the story didn't stop there, and certainly not with IBM. Computers/primitive-databases were also used to manage Japanese internment in the US, also using Census data. The Stasi used improved technologies to their advantage until the 80s.
You can draw a line from there to the NSA, surveillance capitalism, and the commercial data broker markets of today. It's just a matter of time until the information gets used.
You can draw a line from there to the NSA, surveillance capitalism, and the commercial data broker markets of today. It's just a matter of time until the information gets used.
Good book. Have the hardcover on my bookshelf. Not a fan the cover art design though.
If only those engineers at IBM had looked into their crystal ball and known that Adolf Hitler was a bad egg, then they wouldn't have done a census and then everything would be great today.
myth_drannon(1)
jolj(2)
rnd0(2)
TJ Watson (of IBM) is quoted as saying: “I’m an internationalist. I cooperate with all forms of government, regardless of whether I can subscribe to all of their principles or not.”
I hear a lot of similar echos within tech companies right now. People using “we’re a business” to shut down discussion about the role of supplying AI technology to Israel, who has been using AI to choose bombing targets [2].
[1] https://hbr.org/podcast/2019/11/lessons-from-ibm-in-nazi-ger...
[2] https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/