Ask HN: 19yr old child suffering from internet gaming disorder? Any suggestions?
169 comments
In my own experience and watching similar things play out with friends and family, compulsive gaming of the kind you're describing (assuming you're not exaggerating) is almost always covering for some kind of stress or anxiety. More specifically, the most common cases where I've seen this kind of behavior have been with kids whose parents were overprotective and constantly managing their business while they were growing up.
I'm going to be brutally honest here because you seem to be open to it: Kids who reach adulthood without any practice adulting tend to become overwhelmed by the sudden onset of real responsibility, and it's not uncommon for that to lead to maladaptive coping mechanisms, with video games being one of the most benign. In this context, since you're asking and clearly still extremely involved in your adult child's life, I strongly suspect that this is exactly what's going on here (though obviously I could be wrong!).
If I'm right, managing their life for them and trying to solve their problems with university will provide a band-aid, but won't address the root of the problem. You might get them through uni and have them fall apart when they get into a career or a relationship. At this point you have to let go—it's too late to make the transition to adulthood smooth, but better a bumpy transition at 19 than complete failure to launch.
I'm going to be brutally honest here because you seem to be open to it: Kids who reach adulthood without any practice adulting tend to become overwhelmed by the sudden onset of real responsibility, and it's not uncommon for that to lead to maladaptive coping mechanisms, with video games being one of the most benign. In this context, since you're asking and clearly still extremely involved in your adult child's life, I strongly suspect that this is exactly what's going on here (though obviously I could be wrong!).
If I'm right, managing their life for them and trying to solve their problems with university will provide a band-aid, but won't address the root of the problem. You might get them through uni and have them fall apart when they get into a career or a relationship. At this point you have to let go—it's too late to make the transition to adulthood smooth, but better a bumpy transition at 19 than complete failure to launch.
> parents were overprotective and constantly managing their business while they were growing up.
Not sure if we were overprotective, but sometimes self-evaluation is not accurate. I have heard them express continually that they want to manage their life and push back on help. So, perhaps we were.
Not sure if we were overprotective, but sometimes self-evaluation is not accurate. I have heard them express continually that they want to manage their life and push back on help. So, perhaps we were.
I obviously don't have any context beyond what you've given, but these are the red flags to me that suggest that you've been too involved:
* How did they get into the top tier school? Did they lose a work ethic that they had in high school or did they get good grades without developing a work ethic?
* Why do you know their grades? As a reference point, my parents never had cause to know my grades in college.
* This is more minor, but the fact that you identify a behavioral pattern as a disorder is concerning to me. The proliferation of the word "disorder" to describe every bad behavior is correlated in my head with a tendency among modern parents to shield their children from responsibility for their actions.
I don't want to go dredging up the past except insofar as it's useful for improving the future—there's no need to go back and kick yourselves for anything that's done and gone. That said, what I'm hearing suggests that in the present you're more involved in your adult child's life than is healthy, and that's something that can be addressed now.
* How did they get into the top tier school? Did they lose a work ethic that they had in high school or did they get good grades without developing a work ethic?
* Why do you know their grades? As a reference point, my parents never had cause to know my grades in college.
* This is more minor, but the fact that you identify a behavioral pattern as a disorder is concerning to me. The proliferation of the word "disorder" to describe every bad behavior is correlated in my head with a tendency among modern parents to shield their children from responsibility for their actions.
I don't want to go dredging up the past except insofar as it's useful for improving the future—there's no need to go back and kick yourselves for anything that's done and gone. That said, what I'm hearing suggests that in the present you're more involved in your adult child's life than is healthy, and that's something that can be addressed now.
> Why do you know their grades? As a reference point, my parents never had cause to know my grades in college.
A lot of parents contribute financial support to their college students and therefore feel they have a vested interest in knowing their childrens' grades.
A lot of parents contribute financial support to their college students and therefore feel they have a vested interest in knowing their childrens' grades.
And frankly I think that that monetary contribution is part of the problem. Not that any one parent can solve it by stemming the flow, but all the money that flows into the college system that isn't contributed by the financially insecure young adults who college is ostensibly marketed to inflates the cost for everyone else who doesn't have wealthy parents.
Aside from the obvious problems this causes for affordability, this also causes young adults continue to be dependent on their parents well into adulthood, leading to the problems manifested here.
I don't expect any one set of parents to pull the plug (though we're absolutely going to do that and encourage our kids to go to state schools that they can afford or have a really solid plan for paying down the debt). However, I would definitely suggest that parents consider that paying huge amounts of money to get your kid through a top-to-tier school doesn't actually give them a leg up if you deprive them of entering adulthood until years later than their less-wealthy peers.
Aside from the obvious problems this causes for affordability, this also causes young adults continue to be dependent on their parents well into adulthood, leading to the problems manifested here.
I don't expect any one set of parents to pull the plug (though we're absolutely going to do that and encourage our kids to go to state schools that they can afford or have a really solid plan for paying down the debt). However, I would definitely suggest that parents consider that paying huge amounts of money to get your kid through a top-to-tier school doesn't actually give them a leg up if you deprive them of entering adulthood until years later than their less-wealthy peers.
You would think part of the willingness to contribute financial support would stem from trust. I was fortunate enough to have my parent's financial support and they never asked about my grades.
if it helps, my parents were not overprotective, and I was in a similar place when I was 19
Same here, and in some ways still am. Mine was abuse-filled with a lot of neglect.
Abuse and neglect are definitely another way to end up with severe anxiety and stress that gets masked by compulsive video game use. I didn't dwell on that because I haven't seen it as often and because the little evidence I have suggests that no one could accuse the original poster of neglect.
I can relate. I have been there. My parents made all decisions for me pre university and they had to let it go. Then hell broke and I didn't even got my diploma.
I don't think I ever recovered from that (now 40+). Once the damage has been done that's it for the whole life, however hard one tries, because you can't work hard for unknown objectives.
Right now I have everything clicked, family, good work, etc. But there is always a hole.
OP should aggressively pull back their support. Kick him out of home and let him feed himself. He will have to work and spend less on games. That's the only way to heal.
I don't think I ever recovered from that (now 40+). Once the damage has been done that's it for the whole life, however hard one tries, because you can't work hard for unknown objectives.
Right now I have everything clicked, family, good work, etc. But there is always a hole.
OP should aggressively pull back their support. Kick him out of home and let him feed himself. He will have to work and spend less on games. That's the only way to heal.
This. When someone has to do their own laundry, and get a job that will keep them busy 8h-10h per day in order to pay rent, etc. the gears shift, priorities change. Even if he/she manages to find a flatmate (or become someone's flatmate) for lower cost of living, the reality will catch up with him/her (I'm not a pronouns-warrior, it's just the term "child" that is purposely vague).
I've been through my Diablo2, then MUD, then WoW addictions and I know the story from the inside. A j-o-b is the path forward.
Also, as Dave Ramsey frequently says, "don't give a drunk a drink", so.. do the thing that hurts-but-helps and cut him/her off (but do stay close and vigilant).
Also.. talk to some specialists/therapists with experience, they may also have some helpful (clinical/hands-on tips).
I've been through my Diablo2, then MUD, then WoW addictions and I know the story from the inside. A j-o-b is the path forward.
Also, as Dave Ramsey frequently says, "don't give a drunk a drink", so.. do the thing that hurts-but-helps and cut him/her off (but do stay close and vigilant).
Also.. talk to some specialists/therapists with experience, they may also have some helpful (clinical/hands-on tips).
I'm a counter example to this. I've stayed for a long time at my parents. I also had gaming addiction. My parents let me do whatever I wanted. In part, this was because they recognized that they didn't have the knowledge or wisdom to tell me what to do. All they could do was to provide me: love, food and a roof over my head. We all knew this.
One big difference though is that I come from a family of abuse and they scared the living hell out of me by showcasing all the addicts in our family and their educational obtainment. So for me, school was a flight to safety, despite being game addicted as well. At the time, game addiction wasn't a well understood thing. I barely scraped by in high school, but I got into university.
University felt much more like a game to me anyway, so I decided to gamify it and make a whole game out of it. Then studying at university became my addiction.
Oh, and I was still living at home all this time.
One big difference though is that I come from a family of abuse and they scared the living hell out of me by showcasing all the addicts in our family and their educational obtainment. So for me, school was a flight to safety, despite being game addicted as well. At the time, game addiction wasn't a well understood thing. I barely scraped by in high school, but I got into university.
University felt much more like a game to me anyway, so I decided to gamify it and make a whole game out of it. Then studying at university became my addiction.
Oh, and I was still living at home all this time.
For me, the OP's use of the word "child" to describe a 19-year-old seems to bolster your point. If a parent automatically uses that word (rather than the more age-neutral "son" or something similar) it makes me think they're infantilising the person in question.
Fair point, though the post is written in gender neutral language, perhaps to shield privacy. In that context, “child” is probably the most natural word to use?
I had a similar reaction, but on reflection, I think if I were trying to describe my relationship with adults I am a parent of, I would still have to describe them as children.
Adult children is the vernacular.
And the inverse is?
I don't think I agree that this is common language.
The simple form of relationship is "our children" or "my parents", clarifying the age bracket isn't normally used. I say this as someone with 2 children, one is 19.
In some contexts I may describe my parents as "my elderly parents", but only if the age context is relevant.
I don't think I agree that this is common language.
The simple form of relationship is "our children" or "my parents", clarifying the age bracket isn't normally used. I say this as someone with 2 children, one is 19.
In some contexts I may describe my parents as "my elderly parents", but only if the age context is relevant.
> And the inverse is?
Infant? Toddler? Young child? Tween? Teenager?
Really?
Infant? Toddler? Young child? Tween? Teenager?
Really?
Inverse means opposite, but I'll pretend you answered the question.
So you'd introduce every time, as your (infant|toddler|young child|tween|teenager|adult|senior|elderly) child? Because that seems odd.
Yes, really.
So you'd introduce every time, as your (infant|toddler|young child|tween|teenager|adult|senior|elderly) child? Because that seems odd.
Yes, really.
> So you'd introduce every time, as your (infant|toddler|young
As opposed to what? I’m not arrogant enough to assume every stranger online knows the general age of my kids.
As opposed to what? I’m not arrogant enough to assume every stranger online knows the general age of my kids.
You introduced your children into the discussion using the bare noun "kids" rather than a more specific noun phrase like "young kids" or "teenage kids." By omitting any age-related adjective, you focused on the essential fact of having children without specifying their age. This choice demonstrates common linguistic practice, we typically only mention the age range of relatives when it's directly relevant to the topic at hand. Your language use here is a nice example of this principle in action, effectively supporting my argument.
One might argue that by not providing the age context as an adjective, you disrespected your children. However, this position seems to assume that age-specific descriptors are always necessary, which I disagree with. In fact, your choice to use the bare noun appears to show a nuanced understanding of when such specificity is needed and when it's superfluous.
EDIT: I also see it's not the first time you've, according to your definition, been arrogant enough to not provide the age range of your children: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41213069
One might argue that by not providing the age context as an adjective, you disrespected your children. However, this position seems to assume that age-specific descriptors are always necessary, which I disagree with. In fact, your choice to use the bare noun appears to show a nuanced understanding of when such specificity is needed and when it's superfluous.
EDIT: I also see it's not the first time you've, according to your definition, been arrogant enough to not provide the age range of your children: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41213069
Damn bro, this really got to you huh? Not rebuffed much?
I'm not going to bother with a real reply. You clearly have issues.
I'm not going to bother with a real reply. You clearly have issues.
Your response perfectly illustrates a common behaviour: the inability to admit when one is wrong. Rather than engaging with the linguistic analysis I presented, you've retreated to personal attacks and dismissive language. This is a textbook reaction of someone who realises their argument doesn't hold water but lacks the integrity to acknowledge it.
I provided a thoughtful, on-topic discussion. Your choice to sidestep it entirely speaks volumes. It strongly suggests you recognise the validity of my points but are too prideful to concede.
If you actually have a substantive rebuttal to the linguistic concepts we were discussing, let's hear it. Otherwise, your ad hominem remarks only serve to underscore the strength of my original argument and your inability to counter it.
And let's be clear - I'm not your 'bro'. Resorting to such casual dismissiveness doesn't mask your failure to engage in genuine debate.
I'll take no response to this as an acknowledgement that you were incorrect in your assertion.
I provided a thoughtful, on-topic discussion. Your choice to sidestep it entirely speaks volumes. It strongly suggests you recognise the validity of my points but are too prideful to concede.
If you actually have a substantive rebuttal to the linguistic concepts we were discussing, let's hear it. Otherwise, your ad hominem remarks only serve to underscore the strength of my original argument and your inability to counter it.
And let's be clear - I'm not your 'bro'. Resorting to such casual dismissiveness doesn't mask your failure to engage in genuine debate.
I'll take no response to this as an acknowledgement that you were incorrect in your assertion.
Offspring is the word I would use. I use the word Spawn in casual settings though.
the word "child" was used since I wanted to use a gender neutral language and "offspring" is not a word that came to mind. "kid" would have been equally bad.
I think they are going for gender neutral language.
I will take the word "child" from the context that "hey I'm the parent, they are the child".
Also, I'm over 40, and I can say that at 19 I thought I was god/king/etc. and looking bad I am thinking that "damn I was soooOOOOOooo stupid!!". So yeah, at 19 kids are still morons. They may get some things right, but hey, there is a reason that many of us feel that we are (still) learning and (still) have a lot to learn about life at our 40s, 50s, 60s.
Also, I'm over 40, and I can say that at 19 I thought I was god/king/etc. and looking bad I am thinking that "damn I was soooOOOOOooo stupid!!". So yeah, at 19 kids are still morons. They may get some things right, but hey, there is a reason that many of us feel that we are (still) learning and (still) have a lot to learn about life at our 40s, 50s, 60s.
My strongest recommendation:
Do not make this about the game. When you talk to him be sure to focus entirely on your concerns about their performance in school and how that will impact their future. But never directly call out the game itself.
In all likelihood he KNOWS that he's not meeting your expectations and knows exactly why, and knows that you know. What good is there to tell them that they're playing too many video games?
Instead, suggest that they spend more time on school and even use funding as a consequence. If they fail, they get X chances, before funding is pulled.
Lastly, I would implore you to figure out why they're more interested in wasting time on roblox. In all likelihood they just haven't found their "thing" yet. It's not your job per se to find it for them, but I would try hard to support whatever path they want to take even if it isn't the one you saw for them.
Does that mean you need to let them waste away on roblox? Of course not. But chances are they're spending so much time on that game because they're unhappy in whatever pursuit they're in now.
Do not make this about the game. When you talk to him be sure to focus entirely on your concerns about their performance in school and how that will impact their future. But never directly call out the game itself.
In all likelihood he KNOWS that he's not meeting your expectations and knows exactly why, and knows that you know. What good is there to tell them that they're playing too many video games?
Instead, suggest that they spend more time on school and even use funding as a consequence. If they fail, they get X chances, before funding is pulled.
Lastly, I would implore you to figure out why they're more interested in wasting time on roblox. In all likelihood they just haven't found their "thing" yet. It's not your job per se to find it for them, but I would try hard to support whatever path they want to take even if it isn't the one you saw for them.
Does that mean you need to let them waste away on roblox? Of course not. But chances are they're spending so much time on that game because they're unhappy in whatever pursuit they're in now.
I'll chime in and quickly say I played way too much League of Legends for a good decade of my life for some people's taste (sometimes averaging 20-30 hours a week). I'm sure other people will have way outdone me in terms of time commitment, but its still a lot. The thing is, I always got good grades, made a point of being productive, and performed or excelled at my job. Even though from the outside it might have looked like the game was a problem, it really was just a way to fill extra time because I felt like I didn't have other better options to fill that time. All that to say that I agree that the game likely isn't all that important to them, it's more that other things that should feel important don't feel that way either due to the child's lack of perceived consequences or lack of wisdom. But really just my two cents, I'm not going to profess to be an expert or anything.
Echoing CitrusFruits here. I did the same. Lots of LoL (and still do on the mobile version), but I still did extremely well academically and I continue to succeed in my career. I simply choose to fill my extra time with video games because that's what I like.
I don't think video games itself is necessarily the problem, it seems like the kid may be facing some intense external pressures in life that they need to escape to something; the escape just happens to be a specific video game.
I have a sibling (I'm omitting gender to obscure which sibling it could be) that my parents were extremely overprotective over; they had a lot of problems with just life in general. I had them live with me for around four years and covered as much as I could for them while their job was to just graduate from college.
They couldn't do it, and I ramped down my support for them over time and had them eventually move out. They said it was the best thing I ever did for them because it forced them to face life and they eventually got a job, found a place to live on their own, and also get therapy. They were diagnosed with ADHD. After getting appropriate medication, they were able to complete schooling successfully.
Sometimes you have to let the chicks leave the nest; let them fail and fight. Sometimes medication might be required to live a normal life. There's only so much one can do as a parent or a sibling, but in the end, it's their life and you need to let them live it out.
I don't think video games itself is necessarily the problem, it seems like the kid may be facing some intense external pressures in life that they need to escape to something; the escape just happens to be a specific video game.
I have a sibling (I'm omitting gender to obscure which sibling it could be) that my parents were extremely overprotective over; they had a lot of problems with just life in general. I had them live with me for around four years and covered as much as I could for them while their job was to just graduate from college.
They couldn't do it, and I ramped down my support for them over time and had them eventually move out. They said it was the best thing I ever did for them because it forced them to face life and they eventually got a job, found a place to live on their own, and also get therapy. They were diagnosed with ADHD. After getting appropriate medication, they were able to complete schooling successfully.
Sometimes you have to let the chicks leave the nest; let them fail and fight. Sometimes medication might be required to live a normal life. There's only so much one can do as a parent or a sibling, but in the end, it's their life and you need to let them live it out.
So true. I still play videogames quite a lot, and I have been fortunate to have a successful marriage, family, and carreer (so far). Videogames are my hobby and way to relax. I rarely watch TV, movies, or sports or, honestly, read books. It's mostly video games. That's just what interests me.
May or may not have found their thing, but excessive gaming can be a coping mechanism which doesn’t necessarily have much to do if they found their ”thing” or not.
Depression, anxiety, etc. can be sort of pushed aside by gaming all day. Did that for years. Finding their ”thing” might help with it, but not finding it isn’t probably the direct cause imo.
Depression, anxiety, etc. can be sort of pushed aside by gaming all day. Did that for years. Finding their ”thing” might help with it, but not finding it isn’t probably the direct cause imo.
Why would the child be responsible for "meeting expectations" they didn't choose to have placed on them? A parent's support should be unconditional.
> A parent's support should be unconditional.
I agree.
It's not "meeting expectations", I look at it as a concern that one can become self-sufficient and do well in life, regardless of the path.
I agree.
It's not "meeting expectations", I look at it as a concern that one can become self-sufficient and do well in life, regardless of the path.
> A parent's support should be unconditional.
Yeah but no but yeah but... (to echo "Little Britain").
Love can be tough sometimes. A child (even when they are 20-30-40) and addicted to heroin, a parent doesn't love them by giving them money to score again. Or if your kid (again is 20-30-40 and alcoholic) you do them no good if you give them beer-money daily.
Love is the intention. The means/medium/manner in which the Love is materialized/expressed is a whole other ballgame.
Yeah but no but yeah but... (to echo "Little Britain").
Love can be tough sometimes. A child (even when they are 20-30-40) and addicted to heroin, a parent doesn't love them by giving them money to score again. Or if your kid (again is 20-30-40 and alcoholic) you do them no good if you give them beer-money daily.
Love is the intention. The means/medium/manner in which the Love is materialized/expressed is a whole other ballgame.
Thanks.. that's a great suggestion!!
Edit: Missed this part in the suggestion, " If they fail, they get X chances, before funding is pulled."
This is something, at the moment, I don't agree with. But who knows, depending on how things evolve..
Edit: Missed this part in the suggestion, " If they fail, they get X chances, before funding is pulled."
This is something, at the moment, I don't agree with. But who knows, depending on how things evolve..
Yea, I can understand not agreeing with that.
I don't think there's a right or wrong here... I just think that at some point they need to know that you will always love them, will try very hard to support them, but there is a limit to how far you will go.
I don't think there's a right or wrong here... I just think that at some point they need to know that you will always love them, will try very hard to support them, but there is a limit to how far you will go.
There are two flaws in this recommendation:
Assumption that time spent playing Roblox at his age is a waste. (None of us know if this is true)
And that there should be conditions on your support and love.
Assumption that time spent playing Roblox at his age is a waste. (None of us know if this is true)
And that there should be conditions on your support and love.
Not sure where the OP mentioned that, but yes, there should be No conditions on the support and love for one's child. It's part of an unwritten contract one sign's into when one decides to have children.
There should be no conditions on your love for your child, but support? Yes actually. You can actually hurt your child in the long run by supporting them too much. My brother was an absolute fuck up who couldn't get his shit together until my parents were like no more. And then magically he knew how to hold a job and support himself. I have countless stories like this. Sometimes not giving your kid the space to fail is hurting them. Fact is that parents don't live forever and when my aunt died my cousins fell into horrible poverty not knowing how to dp anything on their own. They burned through all the money she left them. That's what fate you leave a child you always have to support.
This is exactly the difference between being "nice" and being "kind". Nice is giving someone what they think they want. Kind is giving them what they actually need. I would frame it as: your parents saying "no more" was a genuine act of support.
You're right, I think I mixed up which comment I was responding to. I stand by my point but will add nuance that I get the sense you already know, that unconditional support doesn't mean unconditional coddling.
Unconditional support doesn't mean protecting your son from failure or consequences in life. It just means you always offer an empathetic ear to help them process their struggles. It may even mean helping the face hard truths, so long as it's being done from a place of love and not disappointment.
I really do get the sense you know this, I'm saying it mostly because others seem to have misunderstood what I meant.
Unconditional support doesn't mean protecting your son from failure or consequences in life. It just means you always offer an empathetic ear to help them process their struggles. It may even mean helping the face hard truths, so long as it's being done from a place of love and not disappointment.
I really do get the sense you know this, I'm saying it mostly because others seem to have misunderstood what I meant.
My philosophy is that it is my job to support my child's growth into an adult and that my sole responsibility is to prepare them to survive and thrive in the world they're going to live in after they're an adult. I'm not sure this translates into unconditionally handing them money for school.
Please for the love of god, do not impose conditions on your support and love.
Everything I ever wanted as a teenager was always on a condition I would get good grades. Not 8 out of 10 but perfect 10's. Even then it was never met with any compliments or recognition. It was my job and I was expected to just do it.
I'll be honest here, I don't speak with my mom anymore and barely with my father. If this isn't the relationship you want to have with your kids in the future, please evaluate the impact your demands and expectations could have on them today.
Everything I ever wanted as a teenager was always on a condition I would get good grades. Not 8 out of 10 but perfect 10's. Even then it was never met with any compliments or recognition. It was my job and I was expected to just do it.
I'll be honest here, I don't speak with my mom anymore and barely with my father. If this isn't the relationship you want to have with your kids in the future, please evaluate the impact your demands and expectations could have on them today.
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I don't know how not a single comment here has mentioned ADHD, but it's possible your kid could be suffering from some form of executive dysfunction that could be linked to ADHD. Internet gaming (and the internet in general) intentionally exploits these types of vulnerabilities, which makes it even worse. Here are some resources on ADHD:
https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/
https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html
https://twitter.com/ErynnBrook/status/1011311249513070594
I am autistic and have ADHD myself so I know a bit about it. If you suspect something it may be worth bringing it up with your kid to see if they care. If they're anything like me they'll care, but if they don't care the situation gets a lot more complicated.
In other words: there's a difference between genuinely wanting to get good grades and not being able to, and blowing it off because you only want to do the bare minimum. I fell into the former bracket. Solutions vary between them.
"Not being able to" doesn't mean not being capable of doing it. It usually means being fully capable of doing it but being unable to actually get your brain to do it because it wants to do something else more. This is a thing and it's called ADHD. It's usually easy to tell when someone has it because they can be incredibly gifted and then barely manage to use that gift (resulting in everyone calling them lazy).
https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/
https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html
https://twitter.com/ErynnBrook/status/1011311249513070594
I am autistic and have ADHD myself so I know a bit about it. If you suspect something it may be worth bringing it up with your kid to see if they care. If they're anything like me they'll care, but if they don't care the situation gets a lot more complicated.
In other words: there's a difference between genuinely wanting to get good grades and not being able to, and blowing it off because you only want to do the bare minimum. I fell into the former bracket. Solutions vary between them.
"Not being able to" doesn't mean not being capable of doing it. It usually means being fully capable of doing it but being unable to actually get your brain to do it because it wants to do something else more. This is a thing and it's called ADHD. It's usually easy to tell when someone has it because they can be incredibly gifted and then barely manage to use that gift (resulting in everyone calling them lazy).
> I'll try to read the first problem and my eyes will just sort of gloss over it and won't take it in.
This (and your comment) is exactly spot on. I had this big time and nobody understood me (and I didn't know that it was a disorder, so I just felt like I was useless). When something doesn't interest me, I'm perfectly capable of physically doing the task, but my brain absolutely refuses to focus on the task for more than one second. It led to me just wasting days on end on trying to study, but getting nowhere, while everyone else just saw me play games, or do random tasks, or anything other than studying, and kept trying to "help" with useless "just sit down and do it" advice.
If this is what your kid has, go to a specialist and try to find something that will focus him. For me, that was working in groups. I always had a really tough time at work because I wasn't productive at all when things weren't interesting, but working with someone in a meeting (usually staying silent, just knowing that the other person was there and also doing work) somehow focused me enough on the task at hand and made me productive.
ADHD is a very real thing, and people who are otherwise perfectly capable of performing a task are just entirely unable to. It has really bad results if you don't get help, and even worse if you don't understand that that's what it is.
This (and your comment) is exactly spot on. I had this big time and nobody understood me (and I didn't know that it was a disorder, so I just felt like I was useless). When something doesn't interest me, I'm perfectly capable of physically doing the task, but my brain absolutely refuses to focus on the task for more than one second. It led to me just wasting days on end on trying to study, but getting nowhere, while everyone else just saw me play games, or do random tasks, or anything other than studying, and kept trying to "help" with useless "just sit down and do it" advice.
If this is what your kid has, go to a specialist and try to find something that will focus him. For me, that was working in groups. I always had a really tough time at work because I wasn't productive at all when things weren't interesting, but working with someone in a meeting (usually staying silent, just knowing that the other person was there and also doing work) somehow focused me enough on the task at hand and made me productive.
ADHD is a very real thing, and people who are otherwise perfectly capable of performing a task are just entirely unable to. It has really bad results if you don't get help, and even worse if you don't understand that that's what it is.
unfortunately it looks like my comment happens to be one of the few that OP hasn't replied to, so my only hope is that they saw it and might consider it.
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Hey! While I was similar to your child (now a good few years older), I'm not a parent or really knowledgeable in these situations, but I'd highly recommend checking out Dr. K ("Healthy Gamer").
He's an actual psychiatrist from Harvard and has a YT channel focused on mental health for gamers (https://youtube.com/@healthygamergg) but also for parents, https://youtube.com/@healthygamerfamilies
His resources helped me personally, and I'm confident his parent channel is just as good!
Good luck!!
He's an actual psychiatrist from Harvard and has a YT channel focused on mental health for gamers (https://youtube.com/@healthygamergg) but also for parents, https://youtube.com/@healthygamerfamilies
His resources helped me personally, and I'm confident his parent channel is just as good!
Good luck!!
I am not a gamer, but I discovered Dr. K on a podcast talking about issues with young men. He spoke a lot about incels. Really interesting and smart man. Definitely a voice worth listening to. Especially if you're concerned about the health of young men. Great recommendation.
Could you link (or just give a search term) to whichever podcast you're referencing? Seems like this guy has been on quite a few.
Dr K has his own channel at https://www.youtube.com/@HealthyGamerGG
Very good IMHO.
Very good IMHO.
It was a two part episode called "This Keeps People Lazy & Pathetic! - Porn, Sex, Women, AI Girlfriends & Weak Men | Healthy Gamer" on the podcast Impact Theory.
There are two episodes one from March 5 and 6 of this year.
There are two episodes one from March 5 and 6 of this year.
He also wrote a book for parents named How to Raise a Healthy Gamer.
Your child is burnt out, potentially depressed, from 12 years of continuous, unrelenting school work with unnecessary, overly strict parenting from your side. They don't need an internship, they need a hiatus, and especially the acceptance from your side that doing this is not a failure and that you support them in their recovery.
Luckily for me, I went through my "World of Warcraft (private servers of course)" phase in highschool so by the 2nd year of university I had enough time to get it out of my system and gain back the energy to focus on internships and my career. Other people I know that went through this later in life (World of Tanks, League of Legends) did not have the span of time necessary to recover and they ended up dropping out or needing to repeat a year.
What I needed really, right after highschool was a year off, and I mean really "OFF". No pressure, no expectations, just recovery. Unfortunately, many people don't really grasp the concept of mental health. Neither me nor my parents knew about mental health as a concept at the time, so it was pure luck that I got burnt out early and had time to adjust (4 years) before the last year of university where consequences would have been way bigger.
Luckily for me, I went through my "World of Warcraft (private servers of course)" phase in highschool so by the 2nd year of university I had enough time to get it out of my system and gain back the energy to focus on internships and my career. Other people I know that went through this later in life (World of Tanks, League of Legends) did not have the span of time necessary to recover and they ended up dropping out or needing to repeat a year.
What I needed really, right after highschool was a year off, and I mean really "OFF". No pressure, no expectations, just recovery. Unfortunately, many people don't really grasp the concept of mental health. Neither me nor my parents knew about mental health as a concept at the time, so it was pure luck that I got burnt out early and had time to adjust (4 years) before the last year of university where consequences would have been way bigger.
Whole lot of judgement and personal anecdotes without good advice.
But a potentially useful perspective on how the situation may look like from the opposing side.
Sometimes the parents are like "how can I increase the pressure on my children to make them better perform according to my standards?" and the children are like "the 24/7 pressure from my parents with no time to relax is driving me so crazy that my choices seem to be either suicide or video games; so far I am choosing the video games".
Now trying to convert this to advice...
Maybe something like: "Hey, I wonder if things are okay; I have this feeling like maybe you have a lot of stress recently. Sometimes when I am stressed, I try to distract myself with the computer, but that's actually not an efficient way to relax, many new inputs. Taking a walk, even a short one, works better for me. And I feel like taking a walk today, would you like to accompany me?" (note: no is a valid answer here)
If the child agrees, during the walk I might start talking (the first 5 minutes) by mentioning some problems that I have (unrelated to the child), not necessarily serious ones, could be something like "I am not sure what to cook for dinner today", but without making it the child's responsibility, so I would also make it clear that I am expecting myself to solve it, e.g. "maybe the same thing I did last week, but I need to check whether we actually have the necessary ingredients at home, after we return". Then silence. There is a chance the child also mentions something. Maybe the important thing will not be mentioned first, but rather something small... to test the waters.
For this to work, there needs to be some general conditions of trust. The child should trust the parent that telling them about their problems will not backfire horribly (e.g. will not result at the parent having yet another thing to nag them or make a huge drama about).
Sometimes the parents are like "how can I increase the pressure on my children to make them better perform according to my standards?" and the children are like "the 24/7 pressure from my parents with no time to relax is driving me so crazy that my choices seem to be either suicide or video games; so far I am choosing the video games".
Now trying to convert this to advice...
Maybe something like: "Hey, I wonder if things are okay; I have this feeling like maybe you have a lot of stress recently. Sometimes when I am stressed, I try to distract myself with the computer, but that's actually not an efficient way to relax, many new inputs. Taking a walk, even a short one, works better for me. And I feel like taking a walk today, would you like to accompany me?" (note: no is a valid answer here)
If the child agrees, during the walk I might start talking (the first 5 minutes) by mentioning some problems that I have (unrelated to the child), not necessarily serious ones, could be something like "I am not sure what to cook for dinner today", but without making it the child's responsibility, so I would also make it clear that I am expecting myself to solve it, e.g. "maybe the same thing I did last week, but I need to check whether we actually have the necessary ingredients at home, after we return". Then silence. There is a chance the child also mentions something. Maybe the important thing will not be mentioned first, but rather something small... to test the waters.
For this to work, there needs to be some general conditions of trust. The child should trust the parent that telling them about their problems will not backfire horribly (e.g. will not result at the parent having yet another thing to nag them or make a huge drama about).
Thank you for understanding. It means alot to me.
Thank you
You are still their parent, but a 19 year old is no longer a child.
Allow the adult you raised to live their own life. This is not a life-threatening condition.
Allow the adult you raised to live their own life. This is not a life-threatening condition.
If they aren't going to apply themselves to school, adults should help pay the rent.
I would guess the parents are paying the bills. So it's not that clear cut. Legally, yes. But they could cut him off. Maybe they should to get him to wake up. The problem is he would lose his place in school.
I got started in programming cause of my love for games. I wanted to learn how they made stuff move across the screen. My first programs were all game themed.
Amazing that there are still adults out there that don't understand how you find yourself and place in life isn't some paint by numbers book.
Amazing that there are still adults out there that don't understand how you find yourself and place in life isn't some paint by numbers book.
I agree. Unfortunately, people keep holding on to this idea of the undeveloped prefrontal cortex (which is a bastardization of the research) as an excuse to infantilize adults.
At 19 I lacked the life skills to succeed at topped ranked EECS program. I eventually transferred to tiny school where I developed the skills I needed in a low pressure environment. I'm currently 16 years into a good career.
I wasn't dealing with addictions, but I had my own share of mental health struggles back then. It sounds like you need to seek help from professionals, rather than internet randos.
I wasn't dealing with addictions, but I had my own share of mental health struggles back then. It sounds like you need to seek help from professionals, rather than internet randos.
By 19 you’re starting to run out of options. It seems like you have a few plays: appeal to emotion/reason in hopes it could be sorted out that way. Sounds like maybe you’ve tried that before. Or, start turning screws (change WiFi password, take phone, etc) but if the internal motivation isn’t there this is a stop-gap at best.
Teaching someone to be self-motivated is a tricky thing, taking either the nature or nurture side of the debate. Either it is innate, or taught. If taught, I don’t think it’s a quick lesson, rather it takes years.
I know I grew up without much means, and was very motivated to get a “real job” and make “real money” after working through high school and college, mostly full-time. Wasn’t great but it worked out I guess. My spouse has much younger siblings, a wealthy father, and her siblings were in high-level sports their whole childhood. Never worked, wanted for nothing. Trips around the world, etc. One of them dropped out of college and the other two live back at home without a job, having graduated.
I don’t know why I typed that out, hope it helps.
Teaching someone to be self-motivated is a tricky thing, taking either the nature or nurture side of the debate. Either it is innate, or taught. If taught, I don’t think it’s a quick lesson, rather it takes years.
I know I grew up without much means, and was very motivated to get a “real job” and make “real money” after working through high school and college, mostly full-time. Wasn’t great but it worked out I guess. My spouse has much younger siblings, a wealthy father, and her siblings were in high-level sports their whole childhood. Never worked, wanted for nothing. Trips around the world, etc. One of them dropped out of college and the other two live back at home without a job, having graduated.
I don’t know why I typed that out, hope it helps.
Too late to edit: your kid has a 3.0, back off. You asking this question is all the answer you need. Grab a mirror.
I’m 40. I was addicted in college to the video game du jour, logging 400 days in game by the time I graduated, so about 7 hours per day over 4 years. Difference is, my parents gave me space to figure things out, which I did after logging a couple of C’s one semester.
I’m now a PhD with a wife, kids, and a comfy Big Tech job. 3.0 GPA is not the kind of kid I expect to crash and burn like some of my friends. You need to loosen the leash.
I’m now a PhD with a wife, kids, and a comfy Big Tech job. 3.0 GPA is not the kind of kid I expect to crash and burn like some of my friends. You need to loosen the leash.
I did my EE undergrad at Stanford (now in my early 30s).
Throughout college I watched an absolutely insane amount of TV. I would procrastinate the hell out of every problem set and coding assignment I was given, often staying up until 4am or later to binge watch anything I could find. At the time, I certainly thought I had an addiction, and there were moments when I felt like I needed to just get my shit together and be less lazy and all my problems would go away. This never really happened, and I wasn't close to top of my class, but I still managed to graduate without issue and it didn't hurt me in getting internships/jobs.
With the benefit of hindsight, therapy, and over a decade of distance, I can see very clearly that I was actually struggling with some deep mental health issues (among them: depression, ADHD, and CPTSD) and was leaning heavily on TV as a coping mechanism. My parents were deeply involved in my life growing up to a degree that I believe was very detrimental (and their behavior was absolutely one of the direct causes of the mental health struggles that I'm still dealing with today). During college, this “involvement” often meant giving me lectures about how I was in danger of falling behind my peers because I wasn’t interning at Google (and because when I visited home I defaulted to watching more TV).
You say in your post that your child’s grades are “not great”. In the comments, you say they have a 3.0. There is literally nothing wrong with this. Your child’s grades are fine. My grades were fine too, and my parents similarly disagreed.
My take, based solely on the extremely limited information from this post and my heavy personal bias, is that your child is doing the best they can while dealing with something deeper than a gaming disorder. My advice is to let them be. Be supportive, and trust them to handle their work, education, and emotions in whatever way they think is best. It does not at all sound like they are “throwing away a great educational opportunity” (and again, this is basically what my parents said to me in a similar situation).
I apologize if this comes across as hostile — reading this was admittedly somewhat triggering for me, and despite their flaws, I do believe my parents did what they thought was best. At the same time, their best was sorely lacking. In the off chance my take is correct, I believe being supportive without trying to intervene will probably work out in the long run. If I happen to be wrong, it certainly won’t hurt.
Throughout college I watched an absolutely insane amount of TV. I would procrastinate the hell out of every problem set and coding assignment I was given, often staying up until 4am or later to binge watch anything I could find. At the time, I certainly thought I had an addiction, and there were moments when I felt like I needed to just get my shit together and be less lazy and all my problems would go away. This never really happened, and I wasn't close to top of my class, but I still managed to graduate without issue and it didn't hurt me in getting internships/jobs.
With the benefit of hindsight, therapy, and over a decade of distance, I can see very clearly that I was actually struggling with some deep mental health issues (among them: depression, ADHD, and CPTSD) and was leaning heavily on TV as a coping mechanism. My parents were deeply involved in my life growing up to a degree that I believe was very detrimental (and their behavior was absolutely one of the direct causes of the mental health struggles that I'm still dealing with today). During college, this “involvement” often meant giving me lectures about how I was in danger of falling behind my peers because I wasn’t interning at Google (and because when I visited home I defaulted to watching more TV).
You say in your post that your child’s grades are “not great”. In the comments, you say they have a 3.0. There is literally nothing wrong with this. Your child’s grades are fine. My grades were fine too, and my parents similarly disagreed.
My take, based solely on the extremely limited information from this post and my heavy personal bias, is that your child is doing the best they can while dealing with something deeper than a gaming disorder. My advice is to let them be. Be supportive, and trust them to handle their work, education, and emotions in whatever way they think is best. It does not at all sound like they are “throwing away a great educational opportunity” (and again, this is basically what my parents said to me in a similar situation).
I apologize if this comes across as hostile — reading this was admittedly somewhat triggering for me, and despite their flaws, I do believe my parents did what they thought was best. At the same time, their best was sorely lacking. In the off chance my take is correct, I believe being supportive without trying to intervene will probably work out in the long run. If I happen to be wrong, it certainly won’t hurt.
I am you basically but opposite in that my parents were totally uninvolved. I had food and shelter but no emotional support and no micromanaging insistence that I do well. I actually wish they had talked to me about school or emotional things... but they don't have those skills. They were both high achieving professors, always busy and always working, so I felt an intrinsic expectation to do a PhD. My parents also hated each other so there's that too. I guess what I am trying to say is that you can get to the same place (depression, adhd etc..) from different paths. In your case "tiger" parenting and in my case "hands off" parenting.
It's interesting that what happened in the past doesn't really matter now or for the future.. huh.. I guess it makes sense that we are all depressed from different reasons... but really all here in the same place now.
It's interesting that what happened in the past doesn't really matter now or for the future.. huh.. I guess it makes sense that we are all depressed from different reasons... but really all here in the same place now.
Thank you.. I do 100% agree that there's nothing wrong with 3.0, I honestly do, and FWIW have never bothered them about the grades or said that they are not good. I was around average back in my day and have told them that.
My worry is primarily about the insane amount of gaming that we're able to observe during summer and no idea if that was the case during the semester or if it will resolve during the fall when classes hit. It is definitely likely that there's some other underlying issue, but having a 19 year old share that with you is a hard problem, and hence I was looking for advise/pointers or general thoughts on whether I should just leave them alone and hope it resolves.
Unfortunately, to leave them on their own devise is not easy for a parent, but perhaps we should.
My worry is primarily about the insane amount of gaming that we're able to observe during summer and no idea if that was the case during the semester or if it will resolve during the fall when classes hit. It is definitely likely that there's some other underlying issue, but having a 19 year old share that with you is a hard problem, and hence I was looking for advise/pointers or general thoughts on whether I should just leave them alone and hope it resolves.
Unfortunately, to leave them on their own devise is not easy for a parent, but perhaps we should.
Sir or madam, you need to go see a psychologist. You have real control issues. You and your SO need counseling really bad. Go talk to a professional, I can't believe you are asking this question in HN! Funnily enough, even people here are more considerate than yourself with your sibling.
Your "child"(actually, an adult) is a person and a person has desires. They might be full of your shit and don't care so much about your precious investments you've made to get them the education you are paying for. They've never had to work for it. Does it hurt? You have to deal with this.
You are probably rich as you can afford this, so it means you are well-studied, so I'll suppose you understand how the brain works given different stimuli and you gave your "child" (of 19) the wrong idea about the world for 19 years, now you expect it to just get a wide comprehension of the world and perform well?
They will never be able to give as much value as for example, I would if I had that opportunity at that age, but I understand him/her.
You have a sickening desire of control of your sibling as if they were your property. You need to go see a professional, now.
You have no control over them, I bet if you keep being a PITA they will start doing drug and that will be all your fault. Get professional help before it's too late.
And let the 'kid' play their games.
Your "child"(actually, an adult) is a person and a person has desires. They might be full of your shit and don't care so much about your precious investments you've made to get them the education you are paying for. They've never had to work for it. Does it hurt? You have to deal with this.
You are probably rich as you can afford this, so it means you are well-studied, so I'll suppose you understand how the brain works given different stimuli and you gave your "child" (of 19) the wrong idea about the world for 19 years, now you expect it to just get a wide comprehension of the world and perform well?
They will never be able to give as much value as for example, I would if I had that opportunity at that age, but I understand him/her.
You have a sickening desire of control of your sibling as if they were your property. You need to go see a professional, now.
You have no control over them, I bet if you keep being a PITA they will start doing drug and that will be all your fault. Get professional help before it's too late.
And let the 'kid' play their games.
If they are passing their classes, I wouldn’t worry about it. Many smart people were addicted to video games at some point.
Let them encounter the consequences of their actions and make decisions. If you keep pushing they will grow to not like being around you.
This guy (Frank Niu) isn’t the best but he was addicted to a game, overcame it on his own and went on to get a job in tech.[1]
Complete guess but I’m thinking your child goes to berkeley and I know plenty of smart people who go to berkeley who are addicted to something or another.
They still have 6 more years of brain development left and you have to let them figure out their life on their own.
3.0 is also an (above) average GPA at a public with grade deflation. If you are going to take drastic measures (please don’t), please consider taking them after they fail a few classes.
I personally was addicted to video games (in a similar manor to your child) but I made it out with 0 intervention. I realized that playing video games doesn’t make me happy and that I wanted to spend the rest of my life following what I truly wanted to do. You can’t convince your child of this on your own. Your child has to become self-motivated and likely already knows it’s a problem.
[1] https://www.tiktok.com/@frankniu/video/7293695619519073541
Let them encounter the consequences of their actions and make decisions. If you keep pushing they will grow to not like being around you.
This guy (Frank Niu) isn’t the best but he was addicted to a game, overcame it on his own and went on to get a job in tech.[1]
Complete guess but I’m thinking your child goes to berkeley and I know plenty of smart people who go to berkeley who are addicted to something or another.
They still have 6 more years of brain development left and you have to let them figure out their life on their own.
3.0 is also an (above) average GPA at a public with grade deflation. If you are going to take drastic measures (please don’t), please consider taking them after they fail a few classes.
I personally was addicted to video games (in a similar manor to your child) but I made it out with 0 intervention. I realized that playing video games doesn’t make me happy and that I wanted to spend the rest of my life following what I truly wanted to do. You can’t convince your child of this on your own. Your child has to become self-motivated and likely already knows it’s a problem.
[1] https://www.tiktok.com/@frankniu/video/7293695619519073541
> Complete guess but I’m thinking your child goes to berkeley
Very curious as to why would you think that?
Very curious as to why would you think that?
I updated my comment a bit with other stuff, so you can check that out.
Out of the schools you mentioned only berkely has an EECS program (that I know of). I think you might of used just CS if it was another school. The roblox games also kind of give me berkely vibes. You also used they/them pronouns to describe your child, though that was not a good or conscience reason, it might of slightly affected my biases in retrospect.
I also know gaming addicts that go to berkeley (although I know a lot of people that go to berkeley in general).
Other than the first reason, I can’t really explain it, which is why it was a complete guess.
Out of the schools you mentioned only berkely has an EECS program (that I know of). I think you might of used just CS if it was another school. The roblox games also kind of give me berkely vibes. You also used they/them pronouns to describe your child, though that was not a good or conscience reason, it might of slightly affected my biases in retrospect.
I also know gaming addicts that go to berkeley (although I know a lot of people that go to berkeley in general).
Other than the first reason, I can’t really explain it, which is why it was a complete guess.
People who behave like this usually have an underlying psychological problem. Obsessive gaming is an avoidance mechanism that allows a person to avoid negative emotion caused by real-life responsibilities and interactions.
How best to handle this depends on the individuals involved. Some people go through a phase where they need to figure this stuff out for themselves; it's just part of their growing up. Others could use a push. Still others benefit from harsh discipline.
Because your child is 19 and no longer a minor, I would say you have passed the stage of harsh discipline. So some combination of pushing and patience are called for. How exactly you go about this is complicated but I would try pushing a bit and see where things go. Have some hard conversations about school, the internship, how your kid is feeling. They'll probably be unwilling to open up but keep at it, at least a little bit. Consider getting a professional involved if your child is unwilling to talk to you but willing to talk to a shrink. If there's absolutely no openness, don't push too hard.
Finally, remember that it's okay to be figuring this stuff out at 19. Bad grades aren't the end of the world and people who waste their time in college (I did) can still become happy adults with good jobs. People grow up at different rates.
How best to handle this depends on the individuals involved. Some people go through a phase where they need to figure this stuff out for themselves; it's just part of their growing up. Others could use a push. Still others benefit from harsh discipline.
Because your child is 19 and no longer a minor, I would say you have passed the stage of harsh discipline. So some combination of pushing and patience are called for. How exactly you go about this is complicated but I would try pushing a bit and see where things go. Have some hard conversations about school, the internship, how your kid is feeling. They'll probably be unwilling to open up but keep at it, at least a little bit. Consider getting a professional involved if your child is unwilling to talk to you but willing to talk to a shrink. If there's absolutely no openness, don't push too hard.
Finally, remember that it's okay to be figuring this stuff out at 19. Bad grades aren't the end of the world and people who waste their time in college (I did) can still become happy adults with good jobs. People grow up at different rates.
Hands off is probably a bad approach here.
One of my roommates in college got addicted to League of Legends. He'd play it all day long, skip classes, not study, etc.. I don't remember what happened exactly but his mom had to get involved and I think he spent some time back at home (detoxing maybe from constant gaming?) before coming back and being better (even apologized for being the way he was, it's easy to realize how crazy it can get when your on the other side).
Basically, get him out of an environment where gaming is freely available. If not that, at least keep contact and keep the pressure up so that they at least have some influence against the tide.
He's 19, a child who just a year or two ago still lived at home... don't think of yourself as powerless and take the action needed to get him to snap back. Hopefully he's receptive.
EDIT: I think people here who think this is fine are just assuming this is a typical kid gaming at school. If this is seemingly so bad that the OP is going on here, I'd err on the side of the parent having a legitimate concern rather than some helicoptering, especially since it's easy to fall into this trap with a developing mind and in a new environment.
One of my roommates in college got addicted to League of Legends. He'd play it all day long, skip classes, not study, etc.. I don't remember what happened exactly but his mom had to get involved and I think he spent some time back at home (detoxing maybe from constant gaming?) before coming back and being better (even apologized for being the way he was, it's easy to realize how crazy it can get when your on the other side).
Basically, get him out of an environment where gaming is freely available. If not that, at least keep contact and keep the pressure up so that they at least have some influence against the tide.
He's 19, a child who just a year or two ago still lived at home... don't think of yourself as powerless and take the action needed to get him to snap back. Hopefully he's receptive.
EDIT: I think people here who think this is fine are just assuming this is a typical kid gaming at school. If this is seemingly so bad that the OP is going on here, I'd err on the side of the parent having a legitimate concern rather than some helicoptering, especially since it's easy to fall into this trap with a developing mind and in a new environment.
Thank you, and that's the concern.
Every waking moment, literally, is spent in gaming. Slept at 8am (not a typo), woke up at 2pm and went directly to game. How is that not an addiction?
Every waking moment, literally, is spent in gaming. Slept at 8am (not a typo), woke up at 2pm and went directly to game. How is that not an addiction?
If he were behaving the same, but instead of gaming it was working or studying, would you feel the same way?
What if he were studying the equivalent of "basket weaving"?
It's definitely obsessive behavior, but it sounds like that's how your son is wired. If you want your son to be happy, start supporting him unconditionally and stop making him feel judged. If you want him to be exceptional, be patient and odds are he will eventually direct his obsessive behavior towards something valuable.
What if he were studying the equivalent of "basket weaving"?
It's definitely obsessive behavior, but it sounds like that's how your son is wired. If you want your son to be happy, start supporting him unconditionally and stop making him feel judged. If you want him to be exceptional, be patient and odds are he will eventually direct his obsessive behavior towards something valuable.
Interesting point, will think more on it. Thank you.
That sounds like a normal college-aged kid that’s still learning about life.
When I was in college (before streaming TV) they played X-Files for 4-6 hours each night starting at midnight and I’d stay up all night watching.
After getting my first real job, I remember seriously trying to figure out how I would record all 6 hours each night (how many VHS tapes and if I’d need multiple VCRs), and how I would fit 6 hours of X-Files into my evening each night after work.
Then I realized, “I guess I can’t watch X-Files anymore”. And I stopped watching X-Files.
Discuss with him the options and paths in front of him, including your concerns that gaming might be the symptom of something more serious, and that you love him no matter what, are here to support him, and that even if he dropped out of school, while you’d be very disappointed you would still be there to support him no matter what.
Then you let him make choices and learn from them. Sometimes people have to fail in order to learn. You literally can’t convey to someone what it’s like to burn their hand on the stove. You have to give them the freedom to touch it. And then they know.
When I was in college (before streaming TV) they played X-Files for 4-6 hours each night starting at midnight and I’d stay up all night watching.
After getting my first real job, I remember seriously trying to figure out how I would record all 6 hours each night (how many VHS tapes and if I’d need multiple VCRs), and how I would fit 6 hours of X-Files into my evening each night after work.
Then I realized, “I guess I can’t watch X-Files anymore”. And I stopped watching X-Files.
Discuss with him the options and paths in front of him, including your concerns that gaming might be the symptom of something more serious, and that you love him no matter what, are here to support him, and that even if he dropped out of school, while you’d be very disappointed you would still be there to support him no matter what.
Then you let him make choices and learn from them. Sometimes people have to fail in order to learn. You literally can’t convey to someone what it’s like to burn their hand on the stove. You have to give them the freedom to touch it. And then they know.
I still watch X-files every 2-3 years. Love it. Favorite show for life, on par with Yes Minister.
I'm in my 30's now. I did the same exact thing, with the same completely whacked out sleep schedule, when I was transitioning 18-19. I spent thousands of hours on Oblivion. My parents did not get on my case about it. They did occasionally say "don't be late for X," or "you're going to miss Y," but they never blew it out of proportion to what it actually was, which was "just a phase" for me. I had very bad grades at this time, and gaming was a way to cope an escape; not the cause of it. My advice is to give him some space and let it play out. If he's going to fail something, let him fail and learn. Let him have a bad semester. He will bounce back. Perhaps this is unavoidable at this point.
A person can be addiction to something (like a game).
Or a person can be addicted to avoiding something (like his real-world life) via addiction- or OCD-like obsession with something that's both (1) readily available in quantity, and (2) well-suited to keeping his mind off whatever he's avoiding.
And of course there are overlap situations, and shades of gray, and possibly multiple things being avoided, being addicted to, and being used as distractions.
Or a person can be addicted to avoiding something (like his real-world life) via addiction- or OCD-like obsession with something that's both (1) readily available in quantity, and (2) well-suited to keeping his mind off whatever he's avoiding.
And of course there are overlap situations, and shades of gray, and possibly multiple things being avoided, being addicted to, and being used as distractions.
You want to read this book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Healthy-Gamer-Relationship/...
Tough one to crack since they are technically adults. Idk back in my day my parents would just say if I fail they would pull funding (they paid tuition room and board at state school) and I would have to come back home, go to community college and pay for it myself. That was pretty motivating. Key point is I knew they were dead serious.
You can also try to talk logic to him. Explain how much you love him and want him to be successful. And you really want him to try quitting the game for “just two weeks” and see what happens.
But if you are still paying for everything, internet included. Cut the funds.
You can also try to talk logic to him. Explain how much you love him and want him to be successful. And you really want him to try quitting the game for “just two weeks” and see what happens.
But if you are still paying for everything, internet included. Cut the funds.
Like your son, I was once a teen in a CS program. I was "good at computers" and my parents expected me to go, but I had no direction, no interest in the courses, and no hobbies outside of video game modding, which I pursued relentlessly to the exclusion of everything else.
I was also lonely, anxious, and depressed, and lacking the maturity to express it. In any case, no-one asked.
Pretty soon my grades were tanking, and my parents and I were having awful screaming matches. I hated class, life, and my parents, who could only offer housing, funding, and angry punishment.
Eventually there was no way to continue. I dropped out and got a minimum wage job. It took years to find my own way back to computers. I found therapy too, which helped, but my relationship with my parents never fully recovered.
Looking back, I needed an adult who could ask good questions, listen with empathy (not judgement), and provide thoughtful guidance. My parents were not capable of this, in part because of their own upbringing.
I hope you find these skills inside yourself. Here are some example questions to consider asking your child:
- Tell me about this game. What do you like about it?
- Are you friends with the people in the game? How close are you with your IRL friends?
- Are you interested in a relationship with anyone?
- How do you see yourself making money one day? Are there any cool toys you want to buy for yourself?
- etc.
And here are a couple of books to consider reading:
- "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" - almost everything here applies to adults too.
- "Conversationally Speaking" - a general guide on asking good questions with meaningful answers. Some of the examples are awkward but you will get the idea.
Good luck.
I was also lonely, anxious, and depressed, and lacking the maturity to express it. In any case, no-one asked.
Pretty soon my grades were tanking, and my parents and I were having awful screaming matches. I hated class, life, and my parents, who could only offer housing, funding, and angry punishment.
Eventually there was no way to continue. I dropped out and got a minimum wage job. It took years to find my own way back to computers. I found therapy too, which helped, but my relationship with my parents never fully recovered.
Looking back, I needed an adult who could ask good questions, listen with empathy (not judgement), and provide thoughtful guidance. My parents were not capable of this, in part because of their own upbringing.
I hope you find these skills inside yourself. Here are some example questions to consider asking your child:
- Tell me about this game. What do you like about it?
- Are you friends with the people in the game? How close are you with your IRL friends?
- Are you interested in a relationship with anyone?
- How do you see yourself making money one day? Are there any cool toys you want to buy for yourself?
- etc.
And here are a couple of books to consider reading:
- "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" - almost everything here applies to adults too.
- "Conversationally Speaking" - a general guide on asking good questions with meaningful answers. Some of the examples are awkward but you will get the idea.
Good luck.
This is the best advice in this thread.
I wish I had proper suggestion. I went through something similar but got out randomly by myself.
In my case one day I woke up and I said "I played all day World of Warcraft and I hated every moment of it. Why on earth am I playing" and I shut it off forever.
My academic career went horribly, but to be fair, I wasn't cut for school. I had problems since the second year of high school and the last year I had this feeling of being completely out of place the entire time (last year of high school is at 19 in Italy).
I wonder he would feek better go straight into work? For me being compensated with knowledge didn't really cut it. I pursued knowledge if I was interested in it, otherwise I would just perform horribly. However whenever I did work that was paid, I would work extra hours and always strive to do the best possible job.
As an adult I'm fairly successful based on my peers (I'm not rich though).
I hope this could be of any help. It's really hard to deal with it.
My academic career went horribly, but to be fair, I wasn't cut for school. I had problems since the second year of high school and the last year I had this feeling of being completely out of place the entire time (last year of high school is at 19 in Italy).
I wonder he would feek better go straight into work? For me being compensated with knowledge didn't really cut it. I pursued knowledge if I was interested in it, otherwise I would just perform horribly. However whenever I did work that was paid, I would work extra hours and always strive to do the best possible job.
As an adult I'm fairly successful based on my peers (I'm not rich though).
I hope this could be of any help. It's really hard to deal with it.
He is an individual. An individual knows one’s needs innately. If an external influencer is convinced they know them better somehow then they will be dealing with a 31 year old child with “internet gaming disorder” in 12 years still trying to figure out what they are doing wrong.
Was it his choice to get into this top ranked program in the first place or is he still being “groomed” for success?
Forcing major life decisions (even dropping an addiction like gaming) robs an individual of agency and will eventually have them give up as what they know they need to do versus what someone else forces them to do are in contradiction.
Guiding his path will only increase cognitive dissonance with his true self and leave him prepared to navigate your generation not his.
I challenge you to say, know, and do less. Give him space to work it out. You may see the easy solution but the easy solution is not going to work for a complex individual.
Was it his choice to get into this top ranked program in the first place or is he still being “groomed” for success?
Forcing major life decisions (even dropping an addiction like gaming) robs an individual of agency and will eventually have them give up as what they know they need to do versus what someone else forces them to do are in contradiction.
Guiding his path will only increase cognitive dissonance with his true self and leave him prepared to navigate your generation not his.
I challenge you to say, know, and do less. Give him space to work it out. You may see the easy solution but the easy solution is not going to work for a complex individual.
Very common symptom of tiger parents. High pressure to go to a good school and once that pressure is off, there's a reversion to make up for lost time that they feel they lost during their childhood due to excessive tiger parenting.
As a parent it's important to provide structure, but not excessive pressure which can become debilitating. They're most likely depressed, and I would recommend talking to them about how they're feeling about their life and where they see themselves fitting into rather than trying to force any kind of behavior changes. Ultimately your kid will have to create their own incentive structures that exist outside of their parent's.
As a parent it's important to provide structure, but not excessive pressure which can become debilitating. They're most likely depressed, and I would recommend talking to them about how they're feeling about their life and where they see themselves fitting into rather than trying to force any kind of behavior changes. Ultimately your kid will have to create their own incentive structures that exist outside of their parent's.
He's in an EECS program so I'd assume he's looking into a career making games or in the game industry? I had no idea what I wanted to do at his age at a public university - switched majors twice(neither relating to CS) and never finished.
I've always wanted to be involved in the game industry, which is why I initially majored in Journalism(LOL, this was over a decade ago before print journalism effectively died) because I loved reading PC gamer, I loved gaming not just for gaming but because I found the creation of games to be so interesting.
I spent a lot of time playing, but also trying to create mods in Age of Empires and StarCraft but never thought about pursuing CS because I was and still am pretty terrible at learning any math/science related concepts, they never seem to 'click' no matter how much time I spend studying.
Point being, your son seems like he's still in a position to succeed. He's only 19, he just needs to find anything that he thinks is cool that he would actually put the effort in to learn and give him the fuel to step away from gaming and start fiddling with games.
It could be 3D rigging/animations, QA, whatever - you should try finding out what he likes so much about roblox or if it is as others have said; and is definitely a possibility that he's just using it as an escape.
I've always wanted to be involved in the game industry, which is why I initially majored in Journalism(LOL, this was over a decade ago before print journalism effectively died) because I loved reading PC gamer, I loved gaming not just for gaming but because I found the creation of games to be so interesting.
I spent a lot of time playing, but also trying to create mods in Age of Empires and StarCraft but never thought about pursuing CS because I was and still am pretty terrible at learning any math/science related concepts, they never seem to 'click' no matter how much time I spend studying.
Point being, your son seems like he's still in a position to succeed. He's only 19, he just needs to find anything that he thinks is cool that he would actually put the effort in to learn and give him the fuel to step away from gaming and start fiddling with games.
It could be 3D rigging/animations, QA, whatever - you should try finding out what he likes so much about roblox or if it is as others have said; and is definitely a possibility that he's just using it as an escape.
Idk when I was 19 I played the shit out of an online game (Planetside 2) and was in a CS program and didn’t have any summer internship that year. I’m going to get my PhD in Economics from a top 20 program next year so I’d say I turned out alright. TBH the fact he has an internship in the first place is a positive sign, I’d personally be more worried that he is missing out on social events in college, I know that I certainly regret that.
19 is an adult so time for them to move out and pay their own way if they’re failing in education. It’s a tough life so you have to make tough decisions for them.
Do this if you hate your child and just want them gone, but keep in mind it's a great way to permanently destroy your relationship.
This is about life choices. If a 19yo wants to waste the education opportunity then you need to give them a raw alternative to jolt them to make the right choices. You’re there to be a parent not their friend.
Pulling the rug out from your child is not the way to help them become self-reliant. If the expectation up until this point is that they would get financial support no matter what, you need to transition to a point where they’re self-reliant. You should still push at every step, but that is too big a change to tackle all at once.
> You’re there to be a parent not their friend.
Hard disagree. In there to be a parent and a friend.
Hard disagree. In there to be a parent and a friend.
I don’t have much to add, not having any experience as a parent, but wanted to say that it may be wise to take care in applying pressure in this situation.
Some people (including myself) have a tendency to retreat into games when feeling overwhelmed or when it seems like life is being consumed by responsibilities. In my case the game tends to be WoW, owing to the era in which I was a young adult. As I’ve aged I’ve been able to curb this tendency pretty well, but that can be tough to do before one’s ability to self-regulate has developed.
It might be worth trying to understand where the 19 year old is sitting in this regard. There may be a deeper reason why they’re being pulled into that Roblox tower defense game that needs addressing. Are they happy with where they’re at and what they’re doing? Do they feel like they still have enough time to themselves after taking care of their responsibilities? These are the sorts of questions I’d ask.
Of course it’s also possible that there’s no issues here at all, I obviously don’t know their situation, but it’s something to consider.
Some people (including myself) have a tendency to retreat into games when feeling overwhelmed or when it seems like life is being consumed by responsibilities. In my case the game tends to be WoW, owing to the era in which I was a young adult. As I’ve aged I’ve been able to curb this tendency pretty well, but that can be tough to do before one’s ability to self-regulate has developed.
It might be worth trying to understand where the 19 year old is sitting in this regard. There may be a deeper reason why they’re being pulled into that Roblox tower defense game that needs addressing. Are they happy with where they’re at and what they’re doing? Do they feel like they still have enough time to themselves after taking care of their responsibilities? These are the sorts of questions I’d ask.
Of course it’s also possible that there’s no issues here at all, I obviously don’t know their situation, but it’s something to consider.
Get an OpenWRT router, block roblox on a network level.
Don't share the admin password with the child.
a) addiction leads to child learning about network technologies, pentesting, and how to bypass the router firewall
b) child stops playing
I think both options are a desirable outcome.
And if a) happens there's a lot of possibilities how to make it harder. Install family management software that limits internet time. Install an antivirus tool that blocks roblox binaries. Install an EDR that blocks roblox binaries. Install an exchange server to remove admin capabilities from the local user. Install their smart phones as an enterprise-managed device with MobileIron where they cannot install anything. Etc. pp.
Each level will force them to learn more about how computers work and before you know it they'll learn about programming and cyber security as well :)
My point being that real life is too boring. So make it a game that's a rewarding challenge.
Don't share the admin password with the child.
a) addiction leads to child learning about network technologies, pentesting, and how to bypass the router firewall
b) child stops playing
I think both options are a desirable outcome.
And if a) happens there's a lot of possibilities how to make it harder. Install family management software that limits internet time. Install an antivirus tool that blocks roblox binaries. Install an EDR that blocks roblox binaries. Install an exchange server to remove admin capabilities from the local user. Install their smart phones as an enterprise-managed device with MobileIron where they cannot install anything. Etc. pp.
Each level will force them to learn more about how computers work and before you know it they'll learn about programming and cyber security as well :)
My point being that real life is too boring. So make it a game that's a rewarding challenge.
Try making him collide with reality: stop paying for certain bills. Don't throw him on the street, but basicaly: you want to play games? No problem: but you need to have the money to be able to pay for internet, food, electricity etc...
Show him that in real life there is no problem playing video games as long as he knows that you need to have money to support that thing.
Show him that in real life there is no problem playing video games as long as he knows that you need to have money to support that thing.
Not sure why this is being downvoted.
A child will eventually collide with reality. Hard. You have one choice:
- have him collide with reality under the watchful eyes of somebody who loves them
- have him collide with reality under the authority of somebody who could care less about him (police, landlord, utilities, etc)
A child will eventually collide with reality. Hard. You have one choice:
- have him collide with reality under the watchful eyes of somebody who loves them
- have him collide with reality under the authority of somebody who could care less about him (police, landlord, utilities, etc)
This is also my stance on parenting. Mine are 9 & 11, but I always try to view the place they are at now vs the 'hello reality' future (18-20ish?) and raise the expectations on what they can do along the lines of the imaginary slope connecting now until then.
And I explain it to them. It's coming, it's real, you'll have to do so many things -- but that if these things are learned at a consistent steady pace, I imagine a bit less earth shattering than the notion of do whatever you want, until life beats you up.
Parenting, all about preparing them for their future in all the ways, or at least giving it your best shot. Communication here, like in everything, is key.
And I explain it to them. It's coming, it's real, you'll have to do so many things -- but that if these things are learned at a consistent steady pace, I imagine a bit less earth shattering than the notion of do whatever you want, until life beats you up.
Parenting, all about preparing them for their future in all the ways, or at least giving it your best shot. Communication here, like in everything, is key.
1) I know a few kids that went on to great schools that were addicted to various video games. In general, all of them are successful today, a couple decades later. In only two instances, did a parent actually have to intervene. One sent their kid to a sort of "boot camp" and the other grounded the kid for a year. Both of these were in high school.
2) Which game is it? Roblox is generally geared towards children - it's not exactly a mature game or audience. The gaming sounds like less of an issue than the choice of game. I would actually try to find out more about the game and what interests them about it.
My personal opinion is: hands off, supportive, but make your thoughts known - they are their own person and not every mistake leads to a life of disaster. If they got into a great school, they will land on their feet one way or another. But 19 is pretty old to have a video game issue, so it might be a symptom of other problems.
2) Which game is it? Roblox is generally geared towards children - it's not exactly a mature game or audience. The gaming sounds like less of an issue than the choice of game. I would actually try to find out more about the game and what interests them about it.
My personal opinion is: hands off, supportive, but make your thoughts known - they are their own person and not every mistake leads to a life of disaster. If they got into a great school, they will land on their feet one way or another. But 19 is pretty old to have a video game issue, so it might be a symptom of other problems.
> Which game is it? Roblox is generally geared towards children
some Tower defense game.
> But 19 is pretty old to have a video game issue, so it might be a symptom of other problems.
part of my concern, or perhaps there was always a gaming issue we just didn't think it was serious enough.
> My personal opinion is: hands off, supportive, but make your thoughts known
So far, this is our approach.
some Tower defense game.
> But 19 is pretty old to have a video game issue, so it might be a symptom of other problems.
part of my concern, or perhaps there was always a gaming issue we just didn't think it was serious enough.
> My personal opinion is: hands off, supportive, but make your thoughts known
So far, this is our approach.
I played video games aggressively because my dad was never there. Sounds like you. Physically present sure, but just never willing to see me as somebody worth forming a connection with. A purely transactional relationship. Except from my dad's side, he is not the kind of guy who will be respecting me more than himself.
You have a lot of expectations and a lot of "fancy talk" about growing up, being an adult, etc. But you are likely a boring shell of a person who cannot understand that the things worth living for (like friends, experiences, fun, being cool) are not observably a part of your life; nor can your advice about career be observed as leading to the things worth living for.
What are you offering your son instead of video games? Here's a simple challenge: offer your son an experience that is so tantalizing that he sets down the game to participate in. If you take part in this experience, it will likely improve your relationship.
And for christ sake never use the stupid phrase "19 year old child." Have some respect for your son. He's you, and if you respect him, he will be there for you when you are a drooling invalid at old age near death.
Go to sleep tonight and think about your own mortality; you will die. Maybe you will wake up and see the world differently.
You have a lot of expectations and a lot of "fancy talk" about growing up, being an adult, etc. But you are likely a boring shell of a person who cannot understand that the things worth living for (like friends, experiences, fun, being cool) are not observably a part of your life; nor can your advice about career be observed as leading to the things worth living for.
What are you offering your son instead of video games? Here's a simple challenge: offer your son an experience that is so tantalizing that he sets down the game to participate in. If you take part in this experience, it will likely improve your relationship.
And for christ sake never use the stupid phrase "19 year old child." Have some respect for your son. He's you, and if you respect him, he will be there for you when you are a drooling invalid at old age near death.
Go to sleep tonight and think about your own mortality; you will die. Maybe you will wake up and see the world differently.
Anyone who has kids so someone is around to take care of them late in life had kids for the wrong reason.
I’ll literally sail off into the sunset in a metal tub before imposing myself on my kids like that.
I’ll literally sail off into the sunset in a metal tub before imposing myself on my kids like that.
And here you are doing the exact thing you later said would be arrogant to do, you mentioned your kids as a bare noun without providing the age bracket as an adjective.
I however, agree that as the context of your children isn't relevant to the topic, it makes sense not to provide that context, however it does perfectly demonstrate that you either can't comprehend my point, inconsistent, or you are just plain arrogant.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41240943
I however, agree that as the context of your children isn't relevant to the topic, it makes sense not to provide that context, however it does perfectly demonstrate that you either can't comprehend my point, inconsistent, or you are just plain arrogant.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41240943
> some Tower defense game.
getting a deeper understanding of what is going on inside the game itself might provide some insight into what's going on
getting a deeper understanding of what is going on inside the game itself might provide some insight into what's going on
I get that you’re worried, but I think your kid is probably fine. They’re still a young kid in college at the end of the day. Figuring out how to deal with stuff like this is half of what college is all about.
I went to one of the EECS programs you mentioned, and the workload and stress that gets piled onto you is pretty intense. Just keeping my head above water was tough, and a B average GPA is honestly not something to worry about unless they want to go to grad school. I also played a ton of games, not only for stress relief, but also because my social circle was all online and we interacted via gaming. I imagine it’s similar for your kid.
Of course, if it keeps developing into something unhealthy, maybe it’s worth bringing up. But an EECS program is basically an unhealthy situation to begin with, so you’re going to see all sorts of coping behaviors. At least it’s not alcohol or weed. :)
I went to one of the EECS programs you mentioned, and the workload and stress that gets piled onto you is pretty intense. Just keeping my head above water was tough, and a B average GPA is honestly not something to worry about unless they want to go to grad school. I also played a ton of games, not only for stress relief, but also because my social circle was all online and we interacted via gaming. I imagine it’s similar for your kid.
Of course, if it keeps developing into something unhealthy, maybe it’s worth bringing up. But an EECS program is basically an unhealthy situation to begin with, so you’re going to see all sorts of coping behaviors. At least it’s not alcohol or weed. :)
You can't make someone do something they don't enjoy. Why would you want them to do something they don't enjoy? Money?
They're probably using the game to escape. Just tell them you support whatever they do, and help them try different things until they find what they are interested in.
They're probably using the game to escape. Just tell them you support whatever they do, and help them try different things until they find what they are interested in.
Even over 15 years ago, back when I was that age, I think my parents would have said the same thing about me and playing Counter-Strike. There were easily days in which I clocked in 8 hours playing that game, but back then the community was going through a special time. Non-steam providers were gaining traction in my country and they were all terrible at managing their infrastructure. Most were running Windows Server 2008 because nobody in that scene knew how to manage Linux servers. We started our own services, just renting out server space to public Counter Strike clans and it was my foray into Linux server management. I then later interned at large companies, and made my way into the Bay Area.
I wouldn't worry about it. You never know what direction it will take them.
I wouldn't worry about it. You never know what direction it will take them.
Sadly I don’t think Roblox will provide the same career opportunities but I could be wrong
I've lost one year of high school due to MMORPG, now I'm doing fine but I still regret wasting that year tbh
On the other hand, I knew someone who dropped out of university and lost his chance to qualify for the olympics because he was addicted to Guild Wars.
on the other hand, I know people who met their life-long spouse in EverQuest and made their fortunes (real USD) in MMORPGs.
I think it's fair to say that internet gaming is a poor metric for predicting success, even when there are horror/miracle stories abound.
I think it's fair to say that internet gaming is a poor metric for predicting success, even when there are horror/miracle stories abound.
Did they do so whilst playing all day and neglecting other facets of their life?
Regardless, saying "don't worry about it it will probably work out" isn't helpful advice.
Regardless, saying "don't worry about it it will probably work out" isn't helpful advice.
I'm 17, recently had a similar experience to what you describe. As others have mentioned, and from my own experience, this may indicate they are avoiding a much bigger problem. If there was a bigger problem they're trying to avoid, do they trust you enough to tell you? Would you truly listen and support them, or would your immediate reaction be against how they feel and in favour of _your opinion_ on "their entire future life"?
Aside from your perspective on their grades and time spent gaming, you don't list any other details...
If you wanted to discuss this in more detail with someone younger feel free to reach out, happy to chat.
Aside from your perspective on their grades and time spent gaming, you don't list any other details...
If you wanted to discuss this in more detail with someone younger feel free to reach out, happy to chat.
You’re already getting a lot of solid advice so I’ll keep mine short.
Video games are not inherently bad. They become a problem only when they’re getting in the way of your other life goals.
So, the best place to start is by asking your son: what do you want to achieve over the next 3-4 years?
Then, try to help him figure out the best way to spend his time to achieve those goals.
I feel strongly that the starting point of the conversation should be alignment around the fact that there isn’t anything inherently wrong with video games. Not only is this the truth, it also establishes that you aren’t judging him.
Video games are not inherently bad. They become a problem only when they’re getting in the way of your other life goals.
So, the best place to start is by asking your son: what do you want to achieve over the next 3-4 years?
Then, try to help him figure out the best way to spend his time to achieve those goals.
I feel strongly that the starting point of the conversation should be alignment around the fact that there isn’t anything inherently wrong with video games. Not only is this the truth, it also establishes that you aren’t judging him.
God forbid your son focus on something other than working 24/7. Have you considered transferring your son to a less prestigious institution so that he doesn't suffer from burn out anymore???
Addictive behaviors are not sustainable, kids don’t understand this and will get burned by it if they don’t get it sorted out. You should definitely help your offspring understand the urgency of mastering this habit. I suggest asking questions to help them understand that they’re not in control of their behavior, and offer them guidance and resources. You can help them connect with someone either at or near school who can help them master their executive function. And no, 19 year olds are not mature adults.
Nothing you can really do at this point. I do the same thing, and it's just a way to escape to something that actually gives us positive feelings, when everything else around is actively harms us. In a world devoid of meaning and purpose, where we have no economic prospects, we're saying - why bother? We'd rather just have some cheap fun. Can't look forward to something meaningful like kids and family when you can't even afford property to care for them until you're 65, if that.
I think the best treatment for addiction, as long as that addiction is not so strong as to need weaning or a substitute, would be to go cold turkey with adequate peer/social and other support, in-person, to start.
For an addiction to gaming, a good way to do this could be to go off-grid in a multiple week wilderness program such as NOLS.
After that, it could likely take multiple months before they could recover alone safely, and, even after that, they may need a sponsor or at least a therapist to help for years possibly.
For an addiction to gaming, a good way to do this could be to go off-grid in a multiple week wilderness program such as NOLS.
After that, it could likely take multiple months before they could recover alone safely, and, even after that, they may need a sponsor or at least a therapist to help for years possibly.
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In fact, any advice he may not follow right now, I think you can try to discuss it with him, or play with him, ask about certain things in the game, understand what he is gaining through the game, and what he is avoiding through the game; He may be able to find a major or job that suits him. Hopefully he'll get better
Presuming his issues aren’t major mental health warnings, most people don’t move on until they find another addiction or distraction. Either a GF or a job that makes them reprioritize their choices. Nothing like flipping hamburgers for a semester to make you wake up.
He should approach the school, explain his issues and ask for a semester or two off. He’s not going to have a choice sooner or later.
He should approach the school, explain his issues and ask for a semester or two off. He’s not going to have a choice sooner or later.
I made it a rule that I had to play standing up. This modified the habit enough to make it easier to quit. It becomes a more active thing- do a dance when you win, stretch while something loads. When you're on your feet, you're halfway to doing something else. Sitting down to study becomes a rest. And standing becomes tiresome after awhile.
I know someone who was in a similar situation at your child’s age, in the Stanford CS program. He was able to pause his studies and secure some kind of agreement he could come back when he felt ready. He worked on his issues for about 15 years, barely making enough to pay rent. But then he went back and finished, subsequently got better jobs, and now he’s retired at age 49.
Just to share that option.
Just to share that option.
If you're calling a B average at a nationally-ranked EE/CS program, plus an internship, "insufficient", then, bluntly, their behavior is probably an attempt to escape from the pressure that your expectations put them under. Roblox is not that engaging, as games go; the only way someone can be attached to it for 12 hours a day is if everything else in their life is worse.
So one thing to do is to ask yourself: Why would they dislike their internship and so much? Did they want that internship with that company? Are they doing a degree that matches their interests, or are they doing it because it's "good for their future"? I'd ask if they have any hobbies, but clearly they don't have any that you recognize as such, so instead I'll ask if you've ever prevented them from pursuing a hobby because it was a "distraction" or "expensive" or it "wouldn't get them a job". I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong about, say, teaching history not being stable employment, but I am saying that maybe they'd be throwing themselves into a performing arts or english degree in a way that they aren't engaged with an engineering degree. And why are they living in your house while doing a degree and internship, anyway? Have you "known" where they were going to go to school long enough to have moved there years ago, or did you move to follow them when they selected a school? Would they be hanging out with their friends in the evening if they lived in the dorms?
Whatever comes out of that, be very careful how you talk to them about it. It'd be all too easy for them to repeat back what you've been pushing at them their entire life, reinforcing the stresses that they're seeking to escape. Get them a counselor or therapist and then guarantee them the privacy they need to discuss their problems honestly and openly with that counselor or therapist, without you hovering over them. Like. Leave and go grocery shopping during their appointment. And whatever you do, don't cut off the video games; if they weren't gaming right now, they'd probably be doing drugs or joining a gang or the like.
Source: I internalized expectations from my parents and mentors that were not realistic or healthy and have struggled with them my entire adult life. I find myself using video games to escape from stress and burnout.
So one thing to do is to ask yourself: Why would they dislike their internship and so much? Did they want that internship with that company? Are they doing a degree that matches their interests, or are they doing it because it's "good for their future"? I'd ask if they have any hobbies, but clearly they don't have any that you recognize as such, so instead I'll ask if you've ever prevented them from pursuing a hobby because it was a "distraction" or "expensive" or it "wouldn't get them a job". I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong about, say, teaching history not being stable employment, but I am saying that maybe they'd be throwing themselves into a performing arts or english degree in a way that they aren't engaged with an engineering degree. And why are they living in your house while doing a degree and internship, anyway? Have you "known" where they were going to go to school long enough to have moved there years ago, or did you move to follow them when they selected a school? Would they be hanging out with their friends in the evening if they lived in the dorms?
Whatever comes out of that, be very careful how you talk to them about it. It'd be all too easy for them to repeat back what you've been pushing at them their entire life, reinforcing the stresses that they're seeking to escape. Get them a counselor or therapist and then guarantee them the privacy they need to discuss their problems honestly and openly with that counselor or therapist, without you hovering over them. Like. Leave and go grocery shopping during their appointment. And whatever you do, don't cut off the video games; if they weren't gaming right now, they'd probably be doing drugs or joining a gang or the like.
Source: I internalized expectations from my parents and mentors that were not realistic or healthy and have struggled with them my entire adult life. I find myself using video games to escape from stress and burnout.
I have to question if they're truly spending every moment gaming. It doesn't feel possible to be at a top ranked EECS program and not fail out if you don't spend at least some time on it.
My mother assumed my father wasn't doing any coursework when they started dating, because he got it all done at school. She was quite surprised he had decent grades.
My mother assumed my father wasn't doing any coursework when they started dating, because he got it all done at school. She was quite surprised he had decent grades.
Assuming your 19 year old was smart enough to get into a top ranked program _on merit_ chances are they’ll be fine.
Internet gaming disorder, so 1 year plus where "every waking moment is literally spent gaming", while still getting OK(but not great) grades?
Either you're not looking at this clearly, or it's actually quite impressive that they can spend no time on school and still get ok grades.
Either you're not looking at this clearly, or it's actually quite impressive that they can spend no time on school and still get ok grades.
Hire a tutor. Someone that sits with him 3 hours per day and makes sure he's fully focused and studying. If you tell him to study from this to this hour every day that will make it much more bearable. The tutor can grab his books and notes and ask him questions from those.
Sometimes some real world accomplishment can help - get that real dopamine. Is there a hobby that might appeal to both of you? Maybe something like working on cars. Ask for their help doing some maintenance on your car. Maybe hand down (or buy) an old car and help them fix it.
All addictions stem from a root cause(s). If it’s an addiction and not just way of avoiding the career path imposed by you against his will - go find a decent therapist, not some random internet forum advice.
Either cut off the internet to the house or evict them according to the law in your state. They are able to spend 90% of their time on a game only because, you the parent, have passively enabled such.
No matter what they will push back to maintain the addiction with much greater force and energy than you have to challenge them to improve. There is nothing you can say to them that will set them straight, because every attempt to softly compromise is an opportunity for them to either passively ignore you or actively resist you. That is the irrational nature of addiction.
If this was easily solved you would have solved it already. As a result there is nothing you can do to compromise towards a balanced solution, so you have to cut them off from the source of addiction.
No matter what they will push back to maintain the addiction with much greater force and energy than you have to challenge them to improve. There is nothing you can say to them that will set them straight, because every attempt to softly compromise is an opportunity for them to either passively ignore you or actively resist you. That is the irrational nature of addiction.
If this was easily solved you would have solved it already. As a result there is nothing you can do to compromise towards a balanced solution, so you have to cut them off from the source of addiction.
I don't know what the answer is, but I can tell you that your concerns are legitimate. Even in the year 2000 when I was in college one of my friends had a roommate that played the MMORPG Asheron's Call with basically all of their free time. We never saw the person doing anything else. When we came back for our second year of school, that person was nowhere to be found.
I guess I can safely recommend that you seek help from professionals and not randos on the Internet. Or maybe get help from people who have been down the same road before. Either way, yes, you must do something.
I guess I can safely recommend that you seek help from professionals and not randos on the Internet. Or maybe get help from people who have been down the same road before. Either way, yes, you must do something.
You use singular they here. Is your child transgender? Gender dysphoria is an honest-to-god medical condition they should be discussing with a professional - it's a hell of a big one too, one that would certainly cause drowning one's sorrows in gaming addiction.
Singular they does not mean transgender, its just a gender neutral pronoun, I'm guessing the parent just wanted not to reveal their child's gender
This resource helped me personally.
Start with videos, your son will likely resonate with them.
https://www.youtube.com/@HealthyGamerGG
Further, there’s guides and even coaching to help.
I have no affiliation with them other than as someone who has benefitted tremendously from everything on offer.
Definitely treat this like an addiction. If something, chemical, behavioral, or otherwise is causing your life to suffer, it’s an addiction.
I would guess your child gets more positive feeling from the game than life.
It can take a little time, but there is hope and a healthy way through.
On a related note, my college roommate was exactly the same way. He failed out of college. He worked for a very large game studio by starting at the absolute bottom and then eventually headed a new game category of the type of game he frequently played in college.
He now runs a game studio of his own making multiples of what I do.
As parents, it’s hard to watch a child take a different path than you would expect would be optimal for them, but sometimes they can surprise you by getting out of the local optima you find yourselves in and branch out to something new.
Good luck to you. From someone who previously suffered this same thing, I wish you all the best.
Start with videos, your son will likely resonate with them.
https://www.youtube.com/@HealthyGamerGG
Further, there’s guides and even coaching to help.
I have no affiliation with them other than as someone who has benefitted tremendously from everything on offer.
Definitely treat this like an addiction. If something, chemical, behavioral, or otherwise is causing your life to suffer, it’s an addiction.
I would guess your child gets more positive feeling from the game than life.
It can take a little time, but there is hope and a healthy way through.
On a related note, my college roommate was exactly the same way. He failed out of college. He worked for a very large game studio by starting at the absolute bottom and then eventually headed a new game category of the type of game he frequently played in college.
He now runs a game studio of his own making multiples of what I do.
As parents, it’s hard to watch a child take a different path than you would expect would be optimal for them, but sometimes they can surprise you by getting out of the local optima you find yourselves in and branch out to something new.
Good luck to you. From someone who previously suffered this same thing, I wish you all the best.
become so into his gaming that he will begin to see it as lame. you are already doing a good job being a lame dad by asking hn for parenting help so it shouldnt be too hard
Healing from any addiction has to be self-motivated.
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When I was about that age I spent a whole afternoon playing Sim City. When I realised how many hours I had lost, I just uninstalled it and never looked back.
You should definitely talk to a psychologist if you can't convince him yourself.
The Epicureans taught that pleasure should be sustainable. He won't be able to sustain his gaming if he keeps neglecting his education. So this argument might reach him. Good luck.
You should definitely talk to a psychologist if you can't convince him yourself.
The Epicureans taught that pleasure should be sustainable. He won't be able to sustain his gaming if he keeps neglecting his education. So this argument might reach him. Good luck.
Get yourself a pi-hole and block that game.
What do you mean by “not great” grades? Failing, or not 4.0?
It’s honestly a little weird that you’re this into your child’s business after they’ve gone off to college, especially since this doesn’t even seem like a major crises (drug or alcohol problem, major psychiatric crisis) that I saw a ton of people go through in college.
Assuming they’re not failing, that they even got an internship after their first year shows a ton of initiative. I wouldn’t be too worried.
It does sound like you might be a helicopter parent though. In that case, did they get this internship largely of their own initiative or is it something you pushed them into?
It’s honestly a little weird that you’re this into your child’s business after they’ve gone off to college, especially since this doesn’t even seem like a major crises (drug or alcohol problem, major psychiatric crisis) that I saw a ton of people go through in college.
Assuming they’re not failing, that they even got an internship after their first year shows a ton of initiative. I wouldn’t be too worried.
It does sound like you might be a helicopter parent though. In that case, did they get this internship largely of their own initiative or is it something you pushed them into?
That sounds like a little judgemental. But,
> What do you mean by “not great” grades? Failing, or not 4.0?
3.0
> especially since this doesn’t even seem like a major crises..
Concern is that is this a symptom of another issue or can it develop into something else. I'm just looking for help/advise/suggestions/...
> you might be a helicopter parent though
Am I concerned, yes. Are we helicopter parents, don't think so.
> What do you mean by “not great” grades? Failing, or not 4.0?
3.0
> especially since this doesn’t even seem like a major crises..
Concern is that is this a symptom of another issue or can it develop into something else. I'm just looking for help/advise/suggestions/...
> you might be a helicopter parent though
Am I concerned, yes. Are we helicopter parents, don't think so.
> They are in a top ranked EECS program, think (Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, Cornell, CMU...) (getting a 3.0, and their parents still are upset about it)
All due respect, I too would black my mind out and escape and just want to play video games with my friends if I was from that kind of household/level of pressure/expectation.
All due respect, I too would black my mind out and escape and just want to play video games with my friends if I was from that kind of household/level of pressure/expectation.
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I was equally gaming obsessed at around the same age. For me it was world of Warcraft. My parents were also concerned, but they showed interest in what I was doing and I explained it to them. When they realized I was leading of raiding Guild of over 50 people, and a good chunk of the time was actually me managing people, including resolving conflicts and all sorts of administrative tasks, they weren't nearly as concerned.
Depending on what game your son is playing (I've heard of Roblox but I'm not familiar with it), and how they're playing it, it very well may be that your son is developing some very valuable skills. It might not be managing people, but it might be creative problem solving, setting goals and working towards them, etc.
It sounds also like your son is a bit obsessive, and clearly very intelligent if he's able to achieve the grades he has while devoting so much time to a game.
I was this way too.
By the time I was 23 years old I tapped into some self motivation and desire for more financial freedom and became an entrepreneur. Through the rest of my 20 isn't into my early 30s that obsessive attention shifted from gaming and into my business. I didn't make millions of dollars but that type of focused effort led me to develop many valuable skills. I ended up selling my business for a small sum and now I make good money consulting on my own terms.
Frankly I think the most constructive thing you could do is just show an interest in what your son is doing in his game. In order for this to be constructive you have to reserve judgment. Don't hope for any specific answer just be curious and empathetic. Rather than reading about "gaming disorders" read about Roblox, maybe even try playing it a bit yourself, and try to really understand what it is your son is doing and why.
You might find in the end that nothing is wrong.
Depending on what game your son is playing (I've heard of Roblox but I'm not familiar with it), and how they're playing it, it very well may be that your son is developing some very valuable skills. It might not be managing people, but it might be creative problem solving, setting goals and working towards them, etc.
It sounds also like your son is a bit obsessive, and clearly very intelligent if he's able to achieve the grades he has while devoting so much time to a game.
I was this way too.
By the time I was 23 years old I tapped into some self motivation and desire for more financial freedom and became an entrepreneur. Through the rest of my 20 isn't into my early 30s that obsessive attention shifted from gaming and into my business. I didn't make millions of dollars but that type of focused effort led me to develop many valuable skills. I ended up selling my business for a small sum and now I make good money consulting on my own terms.
Frankly I think the most constructive thing you could do is just show an interest in what your son is doing in his game. In order for this to be constructive you have to reserve judgment. Don't hope for any specific answer just be curious and empathetic. Rather than reading about "gaming disorders" read about Roblox, maybe even try playing it a bit yourself, and try to really understand what it is your son is doing and why.
You might find in the end that nothing is wrong.
One last thing...
There are many paths to success. Almost no one follows exactly the path they set out for themselves in their youth, and most of those who do have mental health issues.
Assuming you want your son to be content and successful, support them in finding their own way, even if you don't fully understand it.
When I was 17 I had a career counsellor lecture me on there being no future in computers, and that instead I should become a carpenter or electrician, etc.
You don't know what the world will be like in 10 years or what skills your son will need to navigate it. You don't even know if college is what's best for him (even if you think you do).
So let go, let him make mistakes and figure it out for himself. He's clearly smart enough. He just needs you to be there for him and believe in him. Make sure he knows you love him unconditionally.
It will work out.
There are many paths to success. Almost no one follows exactly the path they set out for themselves in their youth, and most of those who do have mental health issues.
Assuming you want your son to be content and successful, support them in finding their own way, even if you don't fully understand it.
When I was 17 I had a career counsellor lecture me on there being no future in computers, and that instead I should become a carpenter or electrician, etc.
You don't know what the world will be like in 10 years or what skills your son will need to navigate it. You don't even know if college is what's best for him (even if you think you do).
So let go, let him make mistakes and figure it out for himself. He's clearly smart enough. He just needs you to be there for him and believe in him. Make sure he knows you love him unconditionally.
It will work out.
Dude your kid is fine. He’s going to a top tier college for his program and making a B average after his first year. Maybe he’s playing too much Roblox? Is he happy, healthy? Does he have a social life? If so, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I don’t even check the GPA of new grads I hire.
Edit: If it’s any consolation, I did know people who were truly addicted to gaming in college. They couldn’t manage their time and were on academic probation by the end of freshman year. Slept through multiple finals because they were up late playing league of legends. Never got any internships. Your kid doesn’t sound like the people I knew who really couldn’t manage their time. Also, Freshman year is generally academically the rockiest. A 3.0 is fine. The kids I knew who really couldn’t cut it were failing by the end of their first semester. And this is at a far less competitive program than where your kid is at.
Edit: If it’s any consolation, I did know people who were truly addicted to gaming in college. They couldn’t manage their time and were on academic probation by the end of freshman year. Slept through multiple finals because they were up late playing league of legends. Never got any internships. Your kid doesn’t sound like the people I knew who really couldn’t manage their time. Also, Freshman year is generally academically the rockiest. A 3.0 is fine. The kids I knew who really couldn’t cut it were failing by the end of their first semester. And this is at a far less competitive program than where your kid is at.
It is also possible that the son may not really like CS as a subject and is using gaming to cope. I struggled to get above 3.0 in CS at a non-top school for CS but when I switched to a subject I liked (Economics) I was able to get almost straight As in undergrad, work as a RA in my last year, and get into a top 20 PhD program and succeed in that program.
Yeah, personally I think a lack of IRL socialization would be a much bigger concern than a 3.0 GPA from a tier 1.
Socialization is great, but too much socialization can be bad, too.
I didn't have enough alone time as a kid. I cannot exist alone.
I was always connected to the internet, so I would always be talking or interacting with someone. Always. I seemingly was not able to develop basic things that my brain should be able to do when alone, because I did not spend any time alone in order to develop them.
Now I can't do anything on my own unless I make it into a social thing. Some things by their very nature cannot be social things; I simply cannot do those things.
For example, I can't imagine things to myself. I can imagine things to describe to someone else, but I can't imagine things to myself. I can't entertain myself, either. Even watching videos or media, I have to also be talking to someone at the same time or I just get bored.
My only fulfillment comes from people. My happiness comes from making other people happy. My entertainment comes from entertaining other people. My imagination comes from depicting things to other people. My identity comes from showing other people.
But to myself, without anyone else, I do not exist.
I didn't have enough alone time as a kid. I cannot exist alone.
I was always connected to the internet, so I would always be talking or interacting with someone. Always. I seemingly was not able to develop basic things that my brain should be able to do when alone, because I did not spend any time alone in order to develop them.
Now I can't do anything on my own unless I make it into a social thing. Some things by their very nature cannot be social things; I simply cannot do those things.
For example, I can't imagine things to myself. I can imagine things to describe to someone else, but I can't imagine things to myself. I can't entertain myself, either. Even watching videos or media, I have to also be talking to someone at the same time or I just get bored.
My only fulfillment comes from people. My happiness comes from making other people happy. My entertainment comes from entertaining other people. My imagination comes from depicting things to other people. My identity comes from showing other people.
But to myself, without anyone else, I do not exist.
I don't think any of those issues are commonly associated with, or attributable to, being a well-socialized young adult.
Eh. There is a hole in me where "creativity" would normally be, because I would always just tell it to people instead of actually depicting it anywhere. As a result, it only really exists to be told to other people now.
Not sure if I'd call that "well-socialized" or "codependent". (although I guess codependence is usually on a specific other person rather than just people in general...)
Not sure if I'd call that "well-socialized" or "codependent". (although I guess codependence is usually on a specific other person rather than just people in general...)
Seems like others in the thread have some decent observations, but I don't really see too many people disregarding the importance if the program to begin with. Grades just don't decide your future, and to get them, you really need to believe in and most likely be prepared for the sacrifice. If you're looking at your prospects for after-grad entry into some related field, it would be hard to convince oneself now that it'd worth pursuing at that level, assuming every other element already being a non-issue (money, inherent motivation in the subject, drive toward academic success, motivation to do a job in the field after, intellect, lack of depression).
If you're setting out to pursue a degree program at the "status" schools in 2024, or any for that matter, you're going to be doing it quite optimistically. The apparent reality is that at-best you'll be competing with every other competitive rich person in a wildly over-saturated try-hard market (at present) for what are pretty isolating and potentially miserable, but hypothetically high-paying roles. I would not be shocked if students are starting to question the boomerisms of the last half-century that indicated if you just worked hard and got good grades you'll be successful, because that's all a heap of bs, it's just more visible now. In my city and many others, you'd have to get and keep an unrealistic level of luck over an extended period of time AND work quite hard to the point of burnout in order to... get like a 1 bedroom condo. Imagine if you've grown up in the suburbs and have gone straight to school, have no close friends, no romantic prospects, no options; this is what many 30+ y.o people are going through. If I was looking at that as my outcome at age 19, which I may not have because I wasn't that observant, I might just not care too much what my grade on some trite exam is promising to do for me.
Imagine grinding for years, graduating with $200k in debt or something (idk, not American, seems like your private education institutions are a pyramid scheme), and then still spending years in the basement of your parents place because it's impossible to find a job _at_all_, let alone one that would help you actually form the basis of a functional adult life. Maybe you OP graduated during the 2008 recession or the dot-com boom, that's like 1/4 of the way there in terms of existential dread if you're getting started now, but maybe most of it if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of people with years in their professions who can't even get a call back.
These thoughts are in addition to the others in this thread, but how relevant they are depends on who your kid is. I personally have never and will never respond to external pressures in the best of times, so I tend to question the source of motivation of the people attempting to apply the pressure, because usually they don't understand how someone wouldn't respond.
I literally cannot imagine performing well in school unless I deeply felt it would map to a better future, and I'd presume a smart kid would need a wise parent to help them navigate that in the least-hands-on way possible.
If you're setting out to pursue a degree program at the "status" schools in 2024, or any for that matter, you're going to be doing it quite optimistically. The apparent reality is that at-best you'll be competing with every other competitive rich person in a wildly over-saturated try-hard market (at present) for what are pretty isolating and potentially miserable, but hypothetically high-paying roles. I would not be shocked if students are starting to question the boomerisms of the last half-century that indicated if you just worked hard and got good grades you'll be successful, because that's all a heap of bs, it's just more visible now. In my city and many others, you'd have to get and keep an unrealistic level of luck over an extended period of time AND work quite hard to the point of burnout in order to... get like a 1 bedroom condo. Imagine if you've grown up in the suburbs and have gone straight to school, have no close friends, no romantic prospects, no options; this is what many 30+ y.o people are going through. If I was looking at that as my outcome at age 19, which I may not have because I wasn't that observant, I might just not care too much what my grade on some trite exam is promising to do for me.
Imagine grinding for years, graduating with $200k in debt or something (idk, not American, seems like your private education institutions are a pyramid scheme), and then still spending years in the basement of your parents place because it's impossible to find a job _at_all_, let alone one that would help you actually form the basis of a functional adult life. Maybe you OP graduated during the 2008 recession or the dot-com boom, that's like 1/4 of the way there in terms of existential dread if you're getting started now, but maybe most of it if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of people with years in their professions who can't even get a call back.
These thoughts are in addition to the others in this thread, but how relevant they are depends on who your kid is. I personally have never and will never respond to external pressures in the best of times, so I tend to question the source of motivation of the people attempting to apply the pressure, because usually they don't understand how someone wouldn't respond.
I literally cannot imagine performing well in school unless I deeply felt it would map to a better future, and I'd presume a smart kid would need a wise parent to help them navigate that in the least-hands-on way possible.
Off-the cuff response, not heavily edited:
My parents have one child that doesn't talk to them (myself) and as soon as my siblings are financially independent it'll be all three. I see echoes of what my parents did in what you're saying... unsure if my perception is accurate or not. A couple years ago my parents asked me, quite frankly, "what did we do wrong, why does your sister talk to you about all this stuff and not us, how can we support her like you're doing - because what we're trying doesn't work." They didn't take my advice, but maybe you will.
Your child is an adult. I know they don't seem like one; the 19 year olds I know certainly don't. But they are, and you _have_ to treat them like one. In my experience, people rise or fall to the level of your expectations. This means you ask how they're doing, you listen, and you _don't_ try and fix the problems right away. You really have to listen, I can't overstate this. You may offer advice or help, but never force it. Better yet, ask what they need instead of guessing, and then LISTEN. If they say "get off my back," then do it (ask "what does that look like, concretely?"). Build the trust that you'll be there in the ways they want. When they say "xyz is really rough", say "I went through some similar things, would you like to hear about that?" and not "let's sit down and make a plan to fix this, it's going to heavily impact your future." They have their own goals now. They will make mistakes. Please try and see yourself as a mentor, or even a peer, rather than just a parent.
My parents were overly involved in ways that made school so much more stressful than it needed to be. Participating in every parent group, tracking my location at all times, getting on me about grades constantly. It didn't help me build the skills I needed to, and I dropped out of college (a top 10 university!) after the first year. That's so much worse than getting a 3.0. What's gotten me to the level of achievement I have in my career is _not_ the stuff they really hammered in was important, but the messing around in my own time on stuff I was passionate about, and the connections I made entirely online.
I cannot speak much to the emotional work you will have to do. It is extremely difficult seeing someone you love going down a path you think is bad for them, and worse when you feel there is nothing you can really do without making it worse. I went through this recently with a partner struggling with addiction. I think the most important takeaway I have is that you can't make it about yourself and your desire to help, not to them at least. It's about nonjudgemental presence, support in the ways they say they need (and not the ways _you_ want to feel supportive), and offering options they might not have thought of - but only occasionally.
My parents have one child that doesn't talk to them (myself) and as soon as my siblings are financially independent it'll be all three. I see echoes of what my parents did in what you're saying... unsure if my perception is accurate or not. A couple years ago my parents asked me, quite frankly, "what did we do wrong, why does your sister talk to you about all this stuff and not us, how can we support her like you're doing - because what we're trying doesn't work." They didn't take my advice, but maybe you will.
Your child is an adult. I know they don't seem like one; the 19 year olds I know certainly don't. But they are, and you _have_ to treat them like one. In my experience, people rise or fall to the level of your expectations. This means you ask how they're doing, you listen, and you _don't_ try and fix the problems right away. You really have to listen, I can't overstate this. You may offer advice or help, but never force it. Better yet, ask what they need instead of guessing, and then LISTEN. If they say "get off my back," then do it (ask "what does that look like, concretely?"). Build the trust that you'll be there in the ways they want. When they say "xyz is really rough", say "I went through some similar things, would you like to hear about that?" and not "let's sit down and make a plan to fix this, it's going to heavily impact your future." They have their own goals now. They will make mistakes. Please try and see yourself as a mentor, or even a peer, rather than just a parent.
My parents were overly involved in ways that made school so much more stressful than it needed to be. Participating in every parent group, tracking my location at all times, getting on me about grades constantly. It didn't help me build the skills I needed to, and I dropped out of college (a top 10 university!) after the first year. That's so much worse than getting a 3.0. What's gotten me to the level of achievement I have in my career is _not_ the stuff they really hammered in was important, but the messing around in my own time on stuff I was passionate about, and the connections I made entirely online.
I cannot speak much to the emotional work you will have to do. It is extremely difficult seeing someone you love going down a path you think is bad for them, and worse when you feel there is nothing you can really do without making it worse. I went through this recently with a partner struggling with addiction. I think the most important takeaway I have is that you can't make it about yourself and your desire to help, not to them at least. It's about nonjudgemental presence, support in the ways they say they need (and not the ways _you_ want to feel supportive), and offering options they might not have thought of - but only occasionally.
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I imagine this will be labeled vitriol (and down-voted to the abyss) as is commonly done per the order of the pride of victim-hood currently threading its way through the collective human psyche, but I promise you that’s not what’s in my heart. I suspect you’re in the grip of emotional blackmail. You love your child because that’s part and parcel to how you were made. However, your love is under siege and you’re told ‘if you don’t affirm, you’re part of the problem’ and an imaginary wall of fire has been drawn between you the little person you’ve loved every day of his life.
My advice is to PRAY: Praise God, Repent, Ask and Yield. Pray for yourself, your family and especially your son. Every breath we take is an extension of God’s mercy and patience to work repentance in our life. We’re all in desperate need of repentance from following the world and its temporal / worldly fixes to problems whose root is sin. I’ve sat in many different therapists’ offices, taken different regimes of anti-depressants, listened to ‘wise’ healers etc… Turns out every single ‘mental health’ problem I’ve ever had is the consequence of sin. Sin against myself, my family and my God. Looking back, I realize how unreasonable it was that I could have ever been ‘mentally healthy’ and operating completely contrary to the One whose image in which I’ve been created. All the advice I’ve taken from the world was a vapid race to the bottom. I know what I’m saying is tough and uncomfortable to hear, but there’s no getting around the stunning miracle of repentance, believing every syllable of the gospel of Jesus, and being born again into the life God wills for us, e.g. fleeing sin with everything we’ve got and dying to this dark and passing world. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
They are not focused on internship, which is about to end, and I don't think they did a good job. I tried to help but they're just not prioritizing the work. When at home they are just spending time on the above game. It's hard for us to decide how much to push and how much to let go, in case it all backfires and makes it worse. I'm worried they are throwing this great educational opportunity away which will impact their entire future life and worse this develops into something even more serious that it already is.
Has anyone else gone through this, personally or for a loved one, and has any suggestions?
Thank you!!