Why VR Games Still Haven't Taken Off(spectrum.ieee.org)
spectrum.ieee.org
Why VR Games Still Haven't Taken Off
https://spectrum.ieee.org/vr-games
95 comments
Which gets at the thing that bugs me about the article: “developers are focused on hard-core gamers” is not a root cause.
Why would a casual-game developer waste time on a VR effort, when the only people who already have the $1000+ worth of necessary VR equipment are the hardcore gamers. The “casual” crowd (i.e., people with other hobbies) would much rather upgrade their phone, or buy a new stand mixer for their kitchen, or go on a vacation, or whatever. They are specifically not going to go out and buy a expensive piece of equipment in order to try PokemonVR (in large enough numbers to matter), and when they do, it will sit unused for months at a time. You can't monetize a casual player who doesn't have the headset on long enough to want to buy in-game improvements to the experience.
Why would a casual-game developer waste time on a VR effort, when the only people who already have the $1000+ worth of necessary VR equipment are the hardcore gamers. The “casual” crowd (i.e., people with other hobbies) would much rather upgrade their phone, or buy a new stand mixer for their kitchen, or go on a vacation, or whatever. They are specifically not going to go out and buy a expensive piece of equipment in order to try PokemonVR (in large enough numbers to matter), and when they do, it will sit unused for months at a time. You can't monetize a casual player who doesn't have the headset on long enough to want to buy in-game improvements to the experience.
> games that are improved by deep immersion, like horror games.
There are so, so many horror games. I really just want WoW on the quest - all of the MMORPG things are so clunky atm.
>I think the PSVR2 would FLY off the shelves for a bit if they unlocked its best features for PC
You are in luck for this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/15139hs/full_psvr2_he...
Edit: That's an old post, I was certain that the iVRy devs had unlocked eye tracking using their app, but I can't seem to find that post atm.
There are so, so many horror games. I really just want WoW on the quest - all of the MMORPG things are so clunky atm.
>I think the PSVR2 would FLY off the shelves for a bit if they unlocked its best features for PC
You are in luck for this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/15139hs/full_psvr2_he...
Edit: That's an old post, I was certain that the iVRy devs had unlocked eye tracking using their app, but I can't seem to find that post atm.
I don't think it's a content issue as much as a comfort issue. Literally everyone I know who bought a VR headset, high-end or low-end, has said more or less the same thing: It's impressive, but it starts to hurt after an hour or so. Hard to get and stay immersed when you're in physical discomfort.
It's not just physical comfort though that's definitely a part of it. It's also how fiddly it can be to find the sweetspot where image is not so blurry. There's either screen door or mura effects depending on screen technology. There's the clunkiness of the controls on most games. There's high potential for motion sickness. Most games require quite a lot of space which a lot of people won't have. It isolates the player from the surrounding environment which is not always an adequate position to be in. On games with more movement (boxing, beat saber and other rhythm games, etc) there's the heat that accumulates in the headset, which is not only uncomfortable but can make the lenses blur and the headset to start slipping. So many issues. Some smaller, some subjective, some dependent on player, but any given player will have a stack of issues to deal with any time they hop into the virtual world.
Agreed. Uncomfortable in many ways:
- Heavy on the head, making the neck sore after a while.
- Press into the face, which can also get sore.
- Seals around the face, which is claustrophobic.
- Insulates head/face, making hot and sweaty.
- Even high resolution headsets look pixelated, making things like reading / trying to see details irritating.
- VR motion sickness is very real, (with guides on how to develop your VR legs... which takes multiple days of careful practice).
Despite current headsets being excellent from a technical perspective, IMO they still need to get significantly ligher and more physically comfortable, significantly higher resolution, and ideally solve VR motion sickness in some way...
- Heavy on the head, making the neck sore after a while.
- Press into the face, which can also get sore.
- Seals around the face, which is claustrophobic.
- Insulates head/face, making hot and sweaty.
- Even high resolution headsets look pixelated, making things like reading / trying to see details irritating.
- VR motion sickness is very real, (with guides on how to develop your VR legs... which takes multiple days of careful practice).
Despite current headsets being excellent from a technical perspective, IMO they still need to get significantly ligher and more physically comfortable, significantly higher resolution, and ideally solve VR motion sickness in some way...
It's also way harder to jump in/out of a game session. I have to take a dramamine, clear the area, put on the damn thing, make sure my focal calibration didn't get messed up, then actually play... and if something beckons me mid-session it's a chore to take off the headset and put it back on again.
Versus with regular gaming, if my phone buzzes or the laundry goes off, pausing the game and putting down the controller takes two seconds.
Versus with regular gaming, if my phone buzzes or the laundry goes off, pausing the game and putting down the controller takes two seconds.
One thing I also miss is being able to just jump from the regular game on a monitor into VR and back. Star Wars: Squadrons is the only game I can think of that even has VR as an in-game option to toggle. Everything else requires a full restart of the game to switch to VR or even the purchase of a separate VR version of the game.
That's something that should have been handled much smoother, especially given the comfort issue that might force people to not play everything in VR. But alas, VR support in regular monitor games is extremely rare to begin with and that area of VR never really got much support.
That's something that should have been handled much smoother, especially given the comfort issue that might force people to not play everything in VR. But alas, VR support in regular monitor games is extremely rare to begin with and that area of VR never really got much support.
As somebody who's deep into the VR space, most of that is just bad ergonomic design by the headset makers, as a result of them trying to make headsets look (rather than actually be) lighter in the marketing material.
For the kind of design that's actually comfortable, look at third party suppliers like BOBOVR, which have various designs that have actually learned from what's done in other industries. For example, halo strap designs (like https://www.bobovr.com/products/s3-pro) distribute the weight around the head like a hard hat/welding mask instead of clamping things to your face, making the results immensely more comfortable.
For the kind of design that's actually comfortable, look at third party suppliers like BOBOVR, which have various designs that have actually learned from what's done in other industries. For example, halo strap designs (like https://www.bobovr.com/products/s3-pro) distribute the weight around the head like a hard hat/welding mask instead of clamping things to your face, making the results immensely more comfortable.
There are comfort solutions but if there's nothing compelling enough for you to do so, you probably won't seek them out. (fwiw Globular Cluster is the general solution for Quests!)
I just got a new different headset (Quest Pro, coming from an Index) and I had to figure out how to make it comfortable enough, because you're right that out of the box, they rarely are. (Except Index, which is still one of the best all-around headsets, even years on)
But I figured out a comfort fix because I'm hooked: I'm in VR 10-20 hours a week these days, because I use it to transcend my physical body and hang out with friends around the world. There are even sleep worlds in VRChat where people literally sleep in VR! Also, less intentionally, sometimes you're hanging out and someone passes out on the couch and starts lightly snoring. As above, so below. :)
In some ways, sci-fi is here! It's just, like bars, beaches, or boardgames, not for everyone.
I just got a new different headset (Quest Pro, coming from an Index) and I had to figure out how to make it comfortable enough, because you're right that out of the box, they rarely are. (Except Index, which is still one of the best all-around headsets, even years on)
But I figured out a comfort fix because I'm hooked: I'm in VR 10-20 hours a week these days, because I use it to transcend my physical body and hang out with friends around the world. There are even sleep worlds in VRChat where people literally sleep in VR! Also, less intentionally, sometimes you're hanging out and someone passes out on the couch and starts lightly snoring. As above, so below. :)
In some ways, sci-fi is here! It's just, like bars, beaches, or boardgames, not for everyone.
That sounds like a great tool for quality of life improvement for lets say disabled people or very old. A thousand times better than sad empty look down the street, if they are even capable of looking out of window.
For regular folks, you must have messed something up in your real life pretty badly to waste it in VR in such ways. Real life can have amazing experiences, adventures, passions, extreme sports, experiencing different cultures through real social interaction. But it requires actual effort to get there, not just throwing some money at the problem. Efforts build character, lack of them shows.
If all that sounds old school, boy am I glad to belong there.
For regular folks, you must have messed something up in your real life pretty badly to waste it in VR in such ways. Real life can have amazing experiences, adventures, passions, extreme sports, experiencing different cultures through real social interaction. But it requires actual effort to get there, not just throwing some money at the problem. Efforts build character, lack of them shows.
If all that sounds old school, boy am I glad to belong there.
While comfort is an important issue with a lot of low-hanging-fruit solutions (top-straps!!!), it's a hole every serious VR user will mod themselves out of. There are numerous third party solution to make existing headsets more comfortable, be it complete strap replacement, facial interfaces or top straps. Even alternative headsets like the BigScreenBeyond or Xreal that are substantially lighter and smaller exist. The option are out there.
> It's impressive, but it starts to hurt after an hour or so.
The issue is that "impressive" wanes after a few weeks or months, while comfort tends to improve by additional adjustments and customization. What VR is missing is long-term content, the stuff you use VR for after the initial wow-factor has vanished, the stuff that takes advantage of the 360° 3D screen in front of your eyes and the 6DOF controls without just being gimmicky.
That's one issue I think Apple handled much better than Meta. On VisionPro you have full 2D app support, so most of the apps just work. It might sound boring, but VR needs to embrace that kind of boring when it wants to survive long term, since boring stuff is what people do with computers 24/7.
On Meta Quest things are much more of a mess. There is no clear vision for what's the headset is actually good for. You have a few lackluster games here, a few exercise apps there, a "Metaverse" that still feels woefully incomplete, basic 2D app support without Google Play Store, no easy way to watch movies and a whole lot of other half done ideas.
> It's impressive, but it starts to hurt after an hour or so.
The issue is that "impressive" wanes after a few weeks or months, while comfort tends to improve by additional adjustments and customization. What VR is missing is long-term content, the stuff you use VR for after the initial wow-factor has vanished, the stuff that takes advantage of the 360° 3D screen in front of your eyes and the 6DOF controls without just being gimmicky.
That's one issue I think Apple handled much better than Meta. On VisionPro you have full 2D app support, so most of the apps just work. It might sound boring, but VR needs to embrace that kind of boring when it wants to survive long term, since boring stuff is what people do with computers 24/7.
On Meta Quest things are much more of a mess. There is no clear vision for what's the headset is actually good for. You have a few lackluster games here, a few exercise apps there, a "Metaverse" that still feels woefully incomplete, basic 2D app support without Google Play Store, no easy way to watch movies and a whole lot of other half done ideas.
I agree with this being a user and a VR dev myself. A couple of things that make the experience somewhat tedious is that you can't really get comfortable if you are on a sofa and then decide to lay down and turn side-to-side. Which you can just watching a movie or playing a game casually using a TV etc.
Another reason personally also, it is more tedious to develop games for VR wearing and taking off the HMD all the time. I can imagine this would deter other developers not wanting to make VR games, it's already a slow painstaking process to make games already.
I think also the amount of apps you have to switch on your desktop if using PC also means you keep taking the HMD on and off before you begin to play. Too many barriers to entry when it should be a convenience thing, wear and go!
Not everybody is physically fit/young/healthy or wants to just do physical gaming which i think leads to lack on incentive to use VR too. I personally play most games now via my monitor or projector screen and use VR for simracing as there really is no comparisson here. So VR Great for sim cockpit type games, flying and racing but for everything else, it's back to good old pancake mode monitor instead.So there's now edu-tech start-ups working on VR training. Which does sound cool, like provide an immersive experience in hospital room with different patient scenarios for example. My spouse got to try one recently and it sounded like a mixed bag in practice. Lots of problems with people feeling sick, not having glasses that fit under the goggles etc.
An hour is much more than I can do. I want to play in VR, but every time I try again I regret it. And it only takes about 15 minutes for the pain to start (and a couple days at least to subside). I really truly love playing Beat Saber, but I just can't ever let myself do it again (until and unless headsets get dramatically lighter).
It's not even comfort for me, it's the hygiene of it. Touching greasy skin and then sharing... ick. You really need a personal device for everyone which is pricy.
I got these little fabric covers ("VR cover") for my HMD so the cleanliness aspect is a bit better managed. A couple people can use the first one and then I can swap it to a new, clean one, etc.
To give you one counterpoint, I can wear my Quest 2 (with upgraded head strap) for hours and not get tired or uncomfortable, and I suffer from motion sickness normally too.
The one trick though is that I drink about a liter of water every hour I'm using the headset, even when doing low impact games like golf. The headset is super dehydrating, and I suspect that is the cause of many people's discomfort.
You have to have a bottle nearby that you can drink by feel.
The one trick though is that I drink about a liter of water every hour I'm using the headset, even when doing low impact games like golf. The headset is super dehydrating, and I suspect that is the cause of many people's discomfort.
You have to have a bottle nearby that you can drink by feel.
I don't know. Author complains devs are targeting "hard core" game culture with violent games. But my instinct is that only "hard core" gamers are going to want to stick a thing on their head (that they had to pony up large amounts of dosh for, BTW).
I also believe in The Market. With the number of years VR headsets have been one the market I am quite confident no one somehow missed a lucrative genre. I see a lot of people projecting that they wish VR were the Next Big Thing, but they seem unable to wish it into reality.
Author mentions Beat Saber which would seem to contradict the argument that VR is focused on hyper violent games. Is VR taking off now or not?
My sense is that VR will always be a niche thing — maybe akin to 3D movies, TV. Or like Guitar Hero a (much more expensive) fad.
I also believe in The Market. With the number of years VR headsets have been one the market I am quite confident no one somehow missed a lucrative genre. I see a lot of people projecting that they wish VR were the Next Big Thing, but they seem unable to wish it into reality.
Author mentions Beat Saber which would seem to contradict the argument that VR is focused on hyper violent games. Is VR taking off now or not?
My sense is that VR will always be a niche thing — maybe akin to 3D movies, TV. Or like Guitar Hero a (much more expensive) fad.
The "targeting "hard core" game culture with violent games" thing is quite silly. Many of the most mainstream games around, played by average Joes, are very violent games. I am thinking particularly of the Call of Duty and Halo franchises. Meanwhile many "hardcore gamers" making a lifestyle out of it are into games like Mario.
Completely agree, it’s destined to be niche forever… because it involves strapping something to your face. Niche is FINE! Beat Saber is one of my favorite games of all time, VR did that!
As someone who's spent a large amount of time in Beat Saber I think half the problem is that as good as VR headsets have gotten since the introduction of the original Rift, they're still full of compromises. None of them do everything well, and so you have to pick the one that sucks the least for a single use case (fitness games, racing/flight sims, VRChat, etc), and that's really bad for something as expensive as VR headsets are (even the cheaper quests).
In the case of Quest stuff, PC link users being treated somewhat as second class (no direct DisplayPort input) and the lock-in of the crappy Quest desktop software doesn't help matters.
I agree that VR will always be a niche, but I would also say that there's a good chance of the niche growing with the introduction of a well-built, affordable, well rounded headset that's built on the SteamVR ecosystem.
In the case of Quest stuff, PC link users being treated somewhat as second class (no direct DisplayPort input) and the lock-in of the crappy Quest desktop software doesn't help matters.
I agree that VR will always be a niche, but I would also say that there's a good chance of the niche growing with the introduction of a well-built, affordable, well rounded headset that's built on the SteamVR ecosystem.
It's interesting to me that you compare VR and Guitar Hero as they are very different. VR is nothing but isolation. Guitar Hero and the other Band game at least made it where more people could participate at the same time in the same location. One pulls you away, while the other attempted to include more people.
Fairly confident 2D games are still missing many genres which will eventually become lucrative; never underestimate creativity.
Beat Saber doesn't contradict the hyper violent games given how many VR games are shooters.
Beat Saber just happens to have a intuitive controls and no motion sickness because of the stationary game play.
But it's mainly considered as an introduction to VR gaming not it's final form.
Beat Saber just happens to have a intuitive controls and no motion sickness because of the stationary game play.
But it's mainly considered as an introduction to VR gaming not it's final form.
Hardcore gamers don’t want to stick this on their head because it’s a gimmick. They want to play games, not have ads up to their eyeballs.
Games aren’t the VR killer app that people mistakenly think it is. Nothing is. VR as glasses is a gimmick. Sensory depravation of vision far outranks whatever thing you want to do on a computer. It’s too much effort for no gain and so far it’s been too much marketing and too much tech hyping things up. It’s cringe to see it unfold like it isn’t obvious. Wearing ski goggles indoors to use a computer makes you look like a tool.
Games aren’t the VR killer app that people mistakenly think it is. Nothing is. VR as glasses is a gimmick. Sensory depravation of vision far outranks whatever thing you want to do on a computer. It’s too much effort for no gain and so far it’s been too much marketing and too much tech hyping things up. It’s cringe to see it unfold like it isn’t obvious. Wearing ski goggles indoors to use a computer makes you look like a tool.
I think the overlap between "hard core" flatscreen gamers and "hard core" VR gamers isn't a given.
I mean, look at VRChat. People spend thousands of dollars on gear (before even getting into the physical space needed for full immersion) to... wander around talking to each other and play low-quality clones of minigolf and Among Us games.
I mean, look at VRChat. People spend thousands of dollars on gear (before even getting into the physical space needed for full immersion) to... wander around talking to each other and play low-quality clones of minigolf and Among Us games.
It's good to have a third place (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place).
I think there's a much simpler explanation here, one that covers all of the other failed stereoscopic 3D products: It's a cool novelty effect, but people's brains are already pretty good at reconstructing 3D from 2D, so there's little lasting value. Once the novelty wears off, most people stop caring.
I believe that explanation also covers the Brewster Stereoscope (500k units sold in the 1850s), the ViewMaster (the US DOD bought 100k units alone as part of the future of education), the 1950s wave of 3D movies, the 1990s wave of VR, the 2010s wave of 3D movies, and the rapid rise and fall of 3D TV.
It also covers my experience every time I try this stuff. A while back I rented an Oculus Quest. For the first week, everybody was super into it, and I really loved some of the games. By the end of the second week, nobody even noticed when I mailed it back; we had all returned to playing games on Switches and the consoles.
I think the reason we keep having this problem is that a mixture of the concept (3D is obviously better that 2D, right?) plus the wow from a novelty experience suffices to attract investor money. This time, gobs and gobs of it.
I believe that explanation also covers the Brewster Stereoscope (500k units sold in the 1850s), the ViewMaster (the US DOD bought 100k units alone as part of the future of education), the 1950s wave of 3D movies, the 1990s wave of VR, the 2010s wave of 3D movies, and the rapid rise and fall of 3D TV.
It also covers my experience every time I try this stuff. A while back I rented an Oculus Quest. For the first week, everybody was super into it, and I really loved some of the games. By the end of the second week, nobody even noticed when I mailed it back; we had all returned to playing games on Switches and the consoles.
I think the reason we keep having this problem is that a mixture of the concept (3D is obviously better that 2D, right?) plus the wow from a novelty experience suffices to attract investor money. This time, gobs and gobs of it.
> It's a cool novelty effect, but people's brains are already pretty good at reconstructing 3D from 2D, so there's little lasting value. Once the novelty wears off, most people stop caring.
This might be true for some categories of games, and not true for other categories.
For example, I've played VR on/off since I think the first version of Oculus Rift, until now using a HP Reverb G2. For action games and most categories of games, it is just fun and useful for a small amount of time.
But when it comes to simulators like flight simulators and (realistic) racing games, I literally cannot go back to faux-3D anymore. The sense of depth you get when flying/driving and being able to turn your head around helps so much that going back to non-VR is just impossible now, there is no comparison.
I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling like this regarding simulators and VR. But can it hold up a whole market segment with just this? Unsure, but not impossible either, simulator rigs/hardware seems to be doing more-or-less OK even though it's very niche.
This might be true for some categories of games, and not true for other categories.
For example, I've played VR on/off since I think the first version of Oculus Rift, until now using a HP Reverb G2. For action games and most categories of games, it is just fun and useful for a small amount of time.
But when it comes to simulators like flight simulators and (realistic) racing games, I literally cannot go back to faux-3D anymore. The sense of depth you get when flying/driving and being able to turn your head around helps so much that going back to non-VR is just impossible now, there is no comparison.
I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling like this regarding simulators and VR. But can it hold up a whole market segment with just this? Unsure, but not impossible either, simulator rigs/hardware seems to be doing more-or-less OK even though it's very niche.
Oh yeah, I totally believe there are niches. And I know the simulator crowd has some people who will go to great lengths to get more of the real feel. E.g., the multi-monitor setups: https://help.realsimgear.com/en/articles/4162793-recommended...
But I'll note that as entertainment experiences, plenty of people are happy to play flying and racing games on a 2D screen, so I suspect that this particular niche is quite small, similar to the fraction of dedicated fans who insist on 3D screenings of movies.
I'm sure it's not big enough to justify the billions spent on R&D, and I suspect it's too small to interest the major players in the long term. But perhaps the niches are enough to justify continued production of 3rd-party headsets.
But I'll note that as entertainment experiences, plenty of people are happy to play flying and racing games on a 2D screen, so I suspect that this particular niche is quite small, similar to the fraction of dedicated fans who insist on 3D screenings of movies.
I'm sure it's not big enough to justify the billions spent on R&D, and I suspect it's too small to interest the major players in the long term. But perhaps the niches are enough to justify continued production of 3rd-party headsets.
VR is not that much about stereoscopic 3D, it is more about the 360° environment. You can get most of the immersive effect of VR with a large enough 2D display. 3D is an improvement, but not the most important one.
A VR headset works by putting small displays very close to the eyes to achieve a wide field of view, which is cheaper and more convenient than using large displays further away (like in CAVE system). But for that, one needs one set of optics per eye, as our eyes can't focus that close, and since we need one set per eye, we might as well show different pictures and support stereoscopic 3D.
In other words, VR headsets are a convenient way of displaying a wide field of view, and you get 3D for free.
A VR headset works by putting small displays very close to the eyes to achieve a wide field of view, which is cheaper and more convenient than using large displays further away (like in CAVE system). But for that, one needs one set of optics per eye, as our eyes can't focus that close, and since we need one set per eye, we might as well show different pictures and support stereoscopic 3D.
In other words, VR headsets are a convenient way of displaying a wide field of view, and you get 3D for free.
I understand the argument, but I think the 360° environment came along in the era of Quake. In contrast to the 2D environment of platformers or top-down games, I think the true 3D environments of the Quake era were a big leap forward in terms of giving people a 3D experience. That it was seen through a flat monitor didn't much matter once you were in motion.
I think what VR adds to that is a more natural way of experiencing that 3D environment. But I'm not convinced that makes much of a difference to gaming audiences. The hardcore gamers were always fine with learning less-natural controls. And I don't think casual gamers care much about the 3D environments; quite a lot of popular games are 2D and people seem happy with it.
I also think the novelty 3D experience is more central to the gee-whiz appeal of VR than you do. It's really cool! Just like every stereoscopic 3D experience is really cool. Albeit briefly.
I think what VR adds to that is a more natural way of experiencing that 3D environment. But I'm not convinced that makes much of a difference to gaming audiences. The hardcore gamers were always fine with learning less-natural controls. And I don't think casual gamers care much about the 3D environments; quite a lot of popular games are 2D and people seem happy with it.
I also think the novelty 3D experience is more central to the gee-whiz appeal of VR than you do. It's really cool! Just like every stereoscopic 3D experience is really cool. Albeit briefly.
I agree. Ultimately, while being able to actually physically hide behind a cabinet in SUPERHOT VR was a really cool experience, I have quite similar memories from playing regular SUPERHOT despite of me sitting comfortably in front of a flat screen at the time. I can also vividly remember book scenes despite of only ever seeing black text on some paper in front of my eyes. The brain is quite good at abstracting the medium away.
Oh yeah, books are a great example here.
Superhot is one of the games that most impressed me in VR. And then I looked up how well it sold in non-VR versions. At first that seemed wrong to me, but the more I thought about it, them more it made sense.
Superhot is one of the games that most impressed me in VR. And then I looked up how well it sold in non-VR versions. At first that seemed wrong to me, but the more I thought about it, them more it made sense.
It was a huge hit as a non-VR game first and only later got a VR version. It doesn't feel like a VR conversion, but it's mostly because it just happened to translate into VR really well, both gameplay- and story-wise (but also because VR version is more like a standalone sequel than a port).
> there's little lasting value. Once the novelty wears off, most people stop caring.
i disagree. if we got half-life alyx level games as often as flatscreens people would still be playing. I do think we need lighter cooler headsets (at least compared to valve index) for longer play sessions.
the big trend now on PC is flat2vr. UEVR and luke ross have been carrying pcvr on their back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q02UCNXLJY8
i disagree. if we got half-life alyx level games as often as flatscreens people would still be playing. I do think we need lighter cooler headsets (at least compared to valve index) for longer play sessions.
the big trend now on PC is flat2vr. UEVR and luke ross have been carrying pcvr on their back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q02UCNXLJY8
I believe you would. But I'm confident I wouldn't. And I think the experience of 3D movies and 3D TV indicates most people are more like me in this. Or we might look at the rise in mobile and handheld gaming, which I think is a step away from VR. As anybody who has tried to get a child to put down a Switch or a mobile game knows, 2D is plenty immersive already.
people's brains are already pretty good at reconstructing 3D from 2D
But we do prefer stereo over mono in audio domain, right?
But we do prefer stereo over mono in audio domain, right?
The question isn't if people prefer it, it's if they prefer it enough to spend the time, money, and energy it currently requires to get that experience. I'd prefer lots of things if they were cheap and easy, but they aren't, so I don't bother.
I mean, I do! But I see plenty of people listening to stuff from their phones or mono Bluetooth speakers, so I don't think it's a strong preference. Heck, I'd rather have stereo, but my workshop speaker is mono and I don't care enough to upgrade it for the casual listening I do there.
Beat Saber and Walkabout Mini Golf are hardly "hyper-realistic and violent immersive games" and there are no shortage of other extremely popular (within the market) titles along those lines.
VR gaming faces a low ceiling because (a) VR headsets present a challenge to how our eyes, neck, and proprioceptive systems are accustomed to working and induce a associated fatigue, and (b) VR gaming is more isolating than any other kind of gaming. You disconnect entirely from your surroundings, which is fun as a novelty, but is an "all-in" activity that you can't semi-attentively engage in like you might a portable/mobile game, TV game, a PC game.
VR gaming faces a low ceiling because (a) VR headsets present a challenge to how our eyes, neck, and proprioceptive systems are accustomed to working and induce a associated fatigue, and (b) VR gaming is more isolating than any other kind of gaming. You disconnect entirely from your surroundings, which is fun as a novelty, but is an "all-in" activity that you can't semi-attentively engage in like you might a portable/mobile game, TV game, a PC game.
It seems like they set up a straw man to make the points about gaming they wanted to make. In fact the most popular things on Quest are either various movie streamers or various 3D chat program. Neither of those things are particularly hard core or hyper realistic.
I love when academics take on a medium. Those who can't do teach.
I love when academics take on a medium. Those who can't do teach.
I think it still makes for an interesting contrast when you look at what's got the most ongoing users (VRChat, Gorilla Tag, Bigscreen, Beat Saber, etc), and then compare to the endless parade of devs trying to make yet another direct VR port of FPS game design.
Weak article. Rehash of VR history from other articles. Then author's guesses.
For a good overview of VR today, see Phia's "The Virtual Reality Show."[1] There really are "VR natives", and she is one of them. She's tried almost all the available hardware and environments, including full body and face tracking, and even the omnidirectional treadmills. She's very critical of flaws in hardware and software. Cost is a big issue. The headset isn't all you need. For real immersion, you need face, eye, and body trackers and controllers, all of which cost extra. The good ones aren't cheap. The cheap ones aren't good. She posts videos of her live self and her VR self side by side so you can check the tracking quality.
All this gear provides good social VR immersion if you're in good shape, have good balance, a mobile face, an extroverted personality, a sizable hardware budget, plenty of free time, and an interest in virtual worlds. That's a niche.
Watching Phia does show that except for cost, weight, and complexity, VR does currently work. The original article claims it doesn't, but that probably reflects too much attention to Facebook/Meta's rather weak system.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/@TheVirtualRealityShow
For a good overview of VR today, see Phia's "The Virtual Reality Show."[1] There really are "VR natives", and she is one of them. She's tried almost all the available hardware and environments, including full body and face tracking, and even the omnidirectional treadmills. She's very critical of flaws in hardware and software. Cost is a big issue. The headset isn't all you need. For real immersion, you need face, eye, and body trackers and controllers, all of which cost extra. The good ones aren't cheap. The cheap ones aren't good. She posts videos of her live self and her VR self side by side so you can check the tracking quality.
All this gear provides good social VR immersion if you're in good shape, have good balance, a mobile face, an extroverted personality, a sizable hardware budget, plenty of free time, and an interest in virtual worlds. That's a niche.
Watching Phia does show that except for cost, weight, and complexity, VR does currently work. The original article claims it doesn't, but that probably reflects too much attention to Facebook/Meta's rather weak system.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/@TheVirtualRealityShow
There is some irony in one of the largest companies in the world changing their name to Meta; and hordes of people preaching about the metaverse and the brilliance of Neal Stephenson and Snowcrash and then all at the end of the day paying basically no attention to the part of the book where he explains the thing that made the meta verse popular in universe (it was high fidelity facial expression copying).
Meta is working on that with their Codec Avatars[1], but since their focus is on affordable self contained VR headsets, and PCVR support is all but abandoned, they'll likely remain R&D experiments for quite a few more years. They just don't have enough compute in their current hardware offering.
Apple with their VisionPro is quite a bit further along and their Persona[2] are available to consumer, though the price tag of the device puts it out of reach for almost everybody.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxMZ9zjqMs
[2] https://youtu.be/H3PB2zA6Q-c?si=E_OU1WeF4tsqhpTR&t=288
Apple with their VisionPro is quite a bit further along and their Persona[2] are available to consumer, though the price tag of the device puts it out of reach for almost everybody.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxMZ9zjqMs
[2] https://youtu.be/H3PB2zA6Q-c?si=E_OU1WeF4tsqhpTR&t=288
I'm too much of a transhumanist to understand why, when you can choose to look like anything you could imagine, you would choose to look like your default human self!
I bought a Valve VR headset just to play Half Life Alyx. It was beyond awesome. My son and my wife also played it and also thought it was very, very cool.
I played a few more games since then, nothing as good as HL-A (I haven't heard that anything is as good as that is...). My eyesight isn't great so I have to wear glasses inside. I only have one pair of glasses that fit okay. Getting focus on glasses + lenses + adjustment takes time. The eyes do get strained after 45-60 minutes and I get a little nauseous, so that limits my enjoyment. If there was a way to use my feet to walk Ready Player One style that'd be really super awesome and might alleviate the disconnect between virtual and physical movement.
These days my son plays multiplayer shooter games and occasional multiplayer sword fighting. He seems to enjoy it, especially the social aspect of it.
Also, at parties the various visiting youth play, lots of Superhot playthroughs as it's so easy to get into casually.
I played a few more games since then, nothing as good as HL-A (I haven't heard that anything is as good as that is...). My eyesight isn't great so I have to wear glasses inside. I only have one pair of glasses that fit okay. Getting focus on glasses + lenses + adjustment takes time. The eyes do get strained after 45-60 minutes and I get a little nauseous, so that limits my enjoyment. If there was a way to use my feet to walk Ready Player One style that'd be really super awesome and might alleviate the disconnect between virtual and physical movement.
These days my son plays multiplayer shooter games and occasional multiplayer sword fighting. He seems to enjoy it, especially the social aspect of it.
Also, at parties the various visiting youth play, lots of Superhot playthroughs as it's so easy to get into casually.
Getting clip-in lenses designed for the headset should improve the experience a fair bit, both from ease of use and because it allows for a tighter fit.
For the movement, try out Gorilla Tag. For most people, it turns out that arm-swing movement eliminates nausea; it's just enough to convince the brain that you're the one doing it and not something else.
For the movement, try out Gorilla Tag. For most people, it turns out that arm-swing movement eliminates nausea; it's just enough to convince the brain that you're the one doing it and not something else.
This is anecdotal and the little boring, but... Your house/apartment situation. Some games can be played sitting, but many need some floor-space for a good experience.
The people who live in places with nice big room habitually empty of obstacles which they can monopolize for an hour are probably not the prime demographic for VR gaming escapism.
I keep telling myself I'll play one or two of the things in my Steam library once I finally finish a hardware project and clear some junk away...
The people who live in places with nice big room habitually empty of obstacles which they can monopolize for an hour are probably not the prime demographic for VR gaming escapism.
I keep telling myself I'll play one or two of the things in my Steam library once I finally finish a hardware project and clear some junk away...
I think the main point is not emphasized enough: VR is physically exhausting.
Unless you are playing with stick control (which is nice but nauseating) you will be moving a lot, I am a big guy that can barely kneel and you expect me to do super soldier stuff? yeah, no
I find the best experiences for me are those that require less "getting your VR legs": puzzling places, zombieland or that kayak infiltration game. Of course everybody has different preferences, but to the author's point: not everyone wants (or can) play high intensity action games (which is what AAA focuses on).
As an aside: the other big one are sports games (usually racquet), playing ping pong or tennis feels realistic and its a good exercise.
I find the best experiences for me are those that require less "getting your VR legs": puzzling places, zombieland or that kayak infiltration game. Of course everybody has different preferences, but to the author's point: not everyone wants (or can) play high intensity action games (which is what AAA focuses on).
As an aside: the other big one are sports games (usually racquet), playing ping pong or tennis feels realistic and its a good exercise.
I feel like the other obvious area that VR games have barely touched on is simulation games. Think of Theme Hospital, Rollercoaster Tycoon, and the like as floating dioramas you can manipulate and zoom in and out of.
yeah! there are a few for the quest, heck, there is even a port of cities skylines!.
But all of them run into the fact that making a good simulation (VR or not) requires time and money, and that's something VR games rarely have in abundance.
But all of them run into the fact that making a good simulation (VR or not) requires time and money, and that's something VR games rarely have in abundance.
Put another way, if I want to pretend I'm still in the military, to get all dirty, to get exhausted, etc., I'll go play paintball or airsoft.
Sure, those aren't going to immerse me in a sci-fi or fantasy world the same way, but if recreation is the goal I'll take the in-chair experience.
Sure, those aren't going to immerse me in a sci-fi or fantasy world the same way, but if recreation is the goal I'll take the in-chair experience.
It’s because the sets are expensive for something you can only use solo at home, mostly for video games.
Compare to the price of a Switch, which is portable (or the smartphone you already have…) or to a TV, which is usable by multiple people at once.
And then if you still get one, gaming alone at home in a way that’s more isolating than the stereotypical nerd basement gaming dungeon, while also forcing you to worry about the environment around you so you don’t bump into things or people, turns out to suck. A lot.
So even if you get a headset, good odds you won’t use it much.
That’s putting aside discomfort or motion sickness.
Compare to the price of a Switch, which is portable (or the smartphone you already have…) or to a TV, which is usable by multiple people at once.
And then if you still get one, gaming alone at home in a way that’s more isolating than the stereotypical nerd basement gaming dungeon, while also forcing you to worry about the environment around you so you don’t bump into things or people, turns out to suck. A lot.
So even if you get a headset, good odds you won’t use it much.
That’s putting aside discomfort or motion sickness.
Its basically geeks trying to get their wet dream come true (pun intended, I may have been one of them), and then realizing that its hardly what they dreamed about, just a mediocre experience (or excellent for some for half an hour, which makes it still overpriced crap nobody cares about after initial wow period).
I keep hearing about 'its just behind the corner, just lighter / better resolution / just resolve XYZ problem' literally from 90s (VFX1 for example), but the 'almost there' mantra never changed, just the details. When Apple's solution has fallen hard on the market, it was pretty clear how far from success we are and Apple adjusted plans accordingly.
I gave up on the topic for good, actually grew up some time ago and found out real life out there, with some effort offers massively more than any such goggles will ever offer in my lifetime. Most (rather successful and smart) women I ever talked to about this express immediate disgust with this, it downgrades men to weird boys in their eyes. I still see young me dreaming about alternate realities, but when you want powerful experience now or in near future use psychedelics (responsibly).
There is no good enough content, nobody wants to invest into this too much due to all above, there is no 360 porn to speak of to break barrier like it used to with previous digital revolutions. Human's senses are much harder to fool well than few geeks thought it would.
I keep hearing about 'its just behind the corner, just lighter / better resolution / just resolve XYZ problem' literally from 90s (VFX1 for example), but the 'almost there' mantra never changed, just the details. When Apple's solution has fallen hard on the market, it was pretty clear how far from success we are and Apple adjusted plans accordingly.
I gave up on the topic for good, actually grew up some time ago and found out real life out there, with some effort offers massively more than any such goggles will ever offer in my lifetime. Most (rather successful and smart) women I ever talked to about this express immediate disgust with this, it downgrades men to weird boys in their eyes. I still see young me dreaming about alternate realities, but when you want powerful experience now or in near future use psychedelics (responsibly).
There is no good enough content, nobody wants to invest into this too much due to all above, there is no 360 porn to speak of to break barrier like it used to with previous digital revolutions. Human's senses are much harder to fool well than few geeks thought it would.
I am not a gamer but was absolutely fascinated by a VR game on Oculus GO that I can't even find anymore.
In the game, I was essentially a metal sphere that could "jump" and float through a huge maze. It was a puzzle game.
Tried a ton of games on more modern headsets and never got into them. Zombie games, shooters, sims, etc - nothing came even close to the fascinating experience of that colossal maze.
So in my view, VR games have moved in the wrong direction. From games that explored the new opportunities VR offered to trying -- and failing -- to match the console game experience.
In the game, I was essentially a metal sphere that could "jump" and float through a huge maze. It was a puzzle game.
Tried a ton of games on more modern headsets and never got into them. Zombie games, shooters, sims, etc - nothing came even close to the fascinating experience of that colossal maze.
So in my view, VR games have moved in the wrong direction. From games that explored the new opportunities VR offered to trying -- and failing -- to match the console game experience.
Daedalus - excellent game! The devs have since made Red Matter (and Red Matter 2), just as beautiful but otherwise more conventional.
There is still a lot of indie energy exploring the possibilities of VR. For cool environment you can find a lot in VRChat. For mechanics there are things like Monkey Tag (new motion mechanic) or Silent Slayer on Quest (experimenting with MR).
There is still a lot of indie energy exploring the possibilities of VR. For cool environment you can find a lot in VRChat. For mechanics there are things like Monkey Tag (new motion mechanic) or Silent Slayer on Quest (experimenting with MR).
That's right, Daedalus! Thanks for reminding me the name. I spent so much time in it - just floating around. It's actually possible to jump over the wall in several places and just endlessly fall down outside of the geometry of the walls. Very meditative.
This opinion feels like the age-old gaming divide between high-fidelity graphics in games and simply creating an enjoyable experience. Some believe that a AAA game today needs to have the most stunning visuals to be a game worthy of playing with others focusing more on the mechanics and how rewarding it is to play a game.
I think while this touches on something I don't think immersion and embodiment are mutually exclusive.
I think while this touches on something I don't think immersion and embodiment are mutually exclusive.
Have VR headset from almost of the original, was not part of the kickstarter, but got the first on (Rift?), and have now Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro. Also tried PSVR1/2 but returned them.
The only reason I would use Quest 3 only for fitness. I actually very like it, really entertaining, and keeps you motivated.
The only reason I would use AVP just to see new Apple TV Shows (Immersive) which are only 5-6 minutes long, and watch videos/photos in Spatial format, that really give me some emotions. I have tried to use it as external display, hard to compete with setup of 2 5K/6K monitors. Also, it is so easy to get out of the Mac, and come back without putting headset on. Sure, you can walk with the headset, but why would you.
What I really like right now is Meta AI glasses. I can snap a photo of my dogs on the walk, without taking my phone out, I can talk to AI while visiting museum without trying to get through the crowd to the sign. That device really amazed me. And it just a simple sunglasses, with being a bit more annoying, just because they weight a bit more, only after 3-4 hours I start noticing them on my nose.
The only reason I would use Quest 3 only for fitness. I actually very like it, really entertaining, and keeps you motivated.
The only reason I would use AVP just to see new Apple TV Shows (Immersive) which are only 5-6 minutes long, and watch videos/photos in Spatial format, that really give me some emotions. I have tried to use it as external display, hard to compete with setup of 2 5K/6K monitors. Also, it is so easy to get out of the Mac, and come back without putting headset on. Sure, you can walk with the headset, but why would you.
What I really like right now is Meta AI glasses. I can snap a photo of my dogs on the walk, without taking my phone out, I can talk to AI while visiting museum without trying to get through the crowd to the sign. That device really amazed me. And it just a simple sunglasses, with being a bit more annoying, just because they weight a bit more, only after 3-4 hours I start noticing them on my nose.
My son is an anomaly and loves, loves VR (Oculus Quest 2). He'll play Ghost of Tabor all day long if he can. He played Compound a ton, played the hell out of Boneworks during the pandemic, and generally just loves it more than regular 2D games. However, it is hard to get anyone to play with him, which limits his enjoyment. A big part is that when he played a ton of Boneworks during the pandemic, he pushed beyond his VR sickness and was able to build up a hell of a tolerance and so nothing phases him in VR anymore. By far it is his favorite form of entertainment and it sucks that it hasn't taken off more.
It certainly limits my enjoyment, because I don't have the time to build up the tolerance and I can go max 30m, whereas he can go 3+ hours easy.
I do admit though, that played even the limited amount I have has somewhat ruined the 2d experience of games for me - VR is just so much more visceral!
It certainly limits my enjoyment, because I don't have the time to build up the tolerance and I can go max 30m, whereas he can go 3+ hours easy.
I do admit though, that played even the limited amount I have has somewhat ruined the 2d experience of games for me - VR is just so much more visceral!
I think it simply comes down to price and the fractured VR market. Be it Rift CV1, HTC Vive, Index, PSVR2, QuestPro or Quest3, they just straight up put the price too high for the average gamer. $500 or more just doesn't work with technology that is as unfinished as the current VR devices are. Quest2 is the one device that sold well, thanks to it's $300 price tag, though even there Meta couldn't hesitate to mess it up the momentum with a short lived price increase.
The other issue is just the amount of incompatible VR ecosystems out there, Cardboard, Daydream, PSVR1, PSVR2, Rift, Go, Quest are all separate system with little or no compatibility. That means you constantly end up with good content that only a fraction of the VR market can access, which is a huge problem when VR is already short on content.
Finally, VR never managed to integrate with the rest of the gaming world. Ports of regular games into VR were actively discouraged in the early days and only a few of them ever happened. That meant the whole promise of VR allowing you to "step into your games" fell flat very early on. None of your favorite games could be revisited in VR, instead you where stuck with a lot low budget indie tech demos. Lately that has been changing with UEVR, which allows to mod VR support into Unreal Engine games, but that still is just an unofficial hack, not a feature embraced by any of the VR companies.
There is of course also the big "motion sickness" bogeyman in the corner and while that can certainly be an issue, most people just get used to it. I think the efforts to mitigate the issue (don't port games to VR, make everything slow and boring) have done far more damage to VR than they helped, since it simply means we are stuck with a whole lot of games in VR that simply can't compete with what's available in the world of non-VR gaming. That's kind of a big problem when VR was always supposed to be the "next-level" of gaming and yet it feels like a step backwards.
The other issue is just the amount of incompatible VR ecosystems out there, Cardboard, Daydream, PSVR1, PSVR2, Rift, Go, Quest are all separate system with little or no compatibility. That means you constantly end up with good content that only a fraction of the VR market can access, which is a huge problem when VR is already short on content.
Finally, VR never managed to integrate with the rest of the gaming world. Ports of regular games into VR were actively discouraged in the early days and only a few of them ever happened. That meant the whole promise of VR allowing you to "step into your games" fell flat very early on. None of your favorite games could be revisited in VR, instead you where stuck with a lot low budget indie tech demos. Lately that has been changing with UEVR, which allows to mod VR support into Unreal Engine games, but that still is just an unofficial hack, not a feature embraced by any of the VR companies.
There is of course also the big "motion sickness" bogeyman in the corner and while that can certainly be an issue, most people just get used to it. I think the efforts to mitigate the issue (don't port games to VR, make everything slow and boring) have done far more damage to VR than they helped, since it simply means we are stuck with a whole lot of games in VR that simply can't compete with what's available in the world of non-VR gaming. That's kind of a big problem when VR was always supposed to be the "next-level" of gaming and yet it feels like a step backwards.
Until VR is as light and intrusive as a pair of normal glasses it will remain in the "Flight Simulator Cockpit Setup" realm of gaming.
IMO it's because too many VR games focus on the "VR" part of that phrase rather than the "game" part. Even Alyx, which is a good game, has some limitations. Most feel more like VR tech demos than real games
I think there are plenty of fun VR games. Beat Saber is quite entertaining. As is Walkabout Mini Golf. Both of those can keep me entertained for longer than makes sense.
Gran Turismo is also very fun. Though, honestly, the steering wheel kit will do more to build that experience than the VR headset.
I think the biggest thing killing VR for many otherwise great games, is that I really can't just walk around. Maybe if the "treadmill" options pan out, that can be solved. As things are, though, it is very jarring to have to pen yourself in, or to rely on controller for walking. Shame, as otherwise it works really well.
Gran Turismo is also very fun. Though, honestly, the steering wheel kit will do more to build that experience than the VR headset.
I think the biggest thing killing VR for many otherwise great games, is that I really can't just walk around. Maybe if the "treadmill" options pan out, that can be solved. As things are, though, it is very jarring to have to pen yourself in, or to rely on controller for walking. Shame, as otherwise it works really well.
Anecdata, with a few exceptions, the VR games I tried were impressive as an experience, but not really all that fun once the novelty passed. The limitations of the format clash with the kinds of games that are being made so I often felt like the games were limited, or toy-like. I think the argument made by the article does hit on something about why VR isn't really getting accepted. The games are wrong: but they might be wrong because of the limitations vs expectations of the developers and audience.
The comfort issue is real too. Even with the fairly svelte PSVR2, it's annoying to wear those things.
The comfort issue is real too. Even with the fairly svelte PSVR2, it's annoying to wear those things.
Well, they canceled EchoVR which was by far my favorite. Also, the cheap plastic headband clips on my Oculus broke so I can't wear it any more because it's loose without them.
The good news is that the developers of Gorilla Tag and Echo Arena are working on a spiritual successor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjnw_skc9g
I bought the original kickstarter version of the oculus. I was very excited about the whole VR thing taking off. Ultimately though it was a very nauseating experience. It got so bad that the smell of the headset's cushion was enough to trigger nausea without even putting it on my face. I've heard the newer stuff is less nauseating but I don't want to know.
What is the point of the question being asked by the title, and why do things have to take off?
I think VR is super cool. Playing an hour of beatsaber, pistol whip, or superhot is tremendously entertaining. I also get why people aren't flocking to VR in droves. Compared to other forms of entertainment it's expensive, clunky, isolating, and potentially causes motion sickness. I don't believe in the metaverse / AVP future where your average person is going to work 40 hours a week with a headset on or whatever. My fear is that Meta is going to wake up to the fact that the returns for the billions of dollars per year they're burning trying to make Metaverse a thing are never going to materialize and then give up on the whole thing. Why can't VR just be a niche subdomain of the games industry?
If they just accepted it for what it is, VR could be a small but profitable business within Meta's portfolio or a profitable/sustainable spinoff.
I think VR is super cool. Playing an hour of beatsaber, pistol whip, or superhot is tremendously entertaining. I also get why people aren't flocking to VR in droves. Compared to other forms of entertainment it's expensive, clunky, isolating, and potentially causes motion sickness. I don't believe in the metaverse / AVP future where your average person is going to work 40 hours a week with a headset on or whatever. My fear is that Meta is going to wake up to the fact that the returns for the billions of dollars per year they're burning trying to make Metaverse a thing are never going to materialize and then give up on the whole thing. Why can't VR just be a niche subdomain of the games industry?
If they just accepted it for what it is, VR could be a small but profitable business within Meta's portfolio or a profitable/sustainable spinoff.
Not sure what the author is getting at, VR gaming has taken off[1]. I assume the author means all of VR except provocative ones, and that indeed had not taken off, but non-provocative entertainment is just logical contradiction.
There's no way around including stimulating elements in making of entertainment content; contents lacking in those never take off, just as SIE's CONCORD had proven earlier this month. I am of the opinion that this has nothing to do with diversity or equity or inclusion as those words are defined despite how cheaply these terms are thrown around, to be clear. The problem has to be lack of avid and neutral pursuit of engineered enjoyment.
There's no way around including stimulating elements in making of entertainment content; contents lacking in those never take off, just as SIE's CONCORD had proven earlier this month. I am of the opinion that this has nothing to do with diversity or equity or inclusion as those words are defined despite how cheaply these terms are thrown around, to be clear. The problem has to be lack of avid and neutral pursuit of engineered enjoyment.
1: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=VRChat,Boba%20tea,Beat%20SaberBackground: I spent a few years commercially designing and building VR and AR headsets.
Biggest challenge with VR is the design philosophy for headsets. No matter how much I and others pushed against it - many VR folk are intent on sticking all the hardware on people's heads and faces.
Instead, we need more walkman like designs, where the compute and batteries sit on a user's hip, and the tethered headset is as light as physically possible. Cables for tethering can be a pain, but not as much as putting 500+ grams on your face.
Light headsets are amazing, and yes, I've worn prototypes. Ideally, get headsets down to 80-100 grams and the experience is radically improved.
There are a few small companies pushing on the design, but not main stream enough.
Biggest challenge with VR is the design philosophy for headsets. No matter how much I and others pushed against it - many VR folk are intent on sticking all the hardware on people's heads and faces.
Instead, we need more walkman like designs, where the compute and batteries sit on a user's hip, and the tethered headset is as light as physically possible. Cables for tethering can be a pain, but not as much as putting 500+ grams on your face.
Light headsets are amazing, and yes, I've worn prototypes. Ideally, get headsets down to 80-100 grams and the experience is radically improved.
There are a few small companies pushing on the design, but not main stream enough.
Isn't Apple a bit like that, with their wired battery? And I think Meta is experimenting in that direction too.
I mean, AAA games for VR get a lot more hype because ... well, because that's a part of the spend, on marketing, etc.
But the vast majority of games (on Oculus at least) are very much casual games in the vein of Beat Saber, but they all suck and our Oculus has been gathering dust once the novelty of Beat Saber wore thin.
I don't think the article makes a compelling case for a "why". I'll take a shot at it -- it's a technological dead end. Maybe there are applications for AR once the technology matures, but VR is never going to be a holodeck. The movement-based mechanics of the Wii and the Kinect and whatever the Playstation crap was had a moment in the sun and then we all moved on because there was no killer app, just a bit of novelty.
But the vast majority of games (on Oculus at least) are very much casual games in the vein of Beat Saber, but they all suck and our Oculus has been gathering dust once the novelty of Beat Saber wore thin.
I don't think the article makes a compelling case for a "why". I'll take a shot at it -- it's a technological dead end. Maybe there are applications for AR once the technology matures, but VR is never going to be a holodeck. The movement-based mechanics of the Wii and the Kinect and whatever the Playstation crap was had a moment in the sun and then we all moved on because there was no killer app, just a bit of novelty.
Headsets are big and heavy. Now imagine that some outdated (hardware-wise) popular headsets like PSVR/PSVR2 are additionally attached to a cable which makes the experience even worse especially in dynamic games. I can't imagine going back to my wired headset, I would rather not use it at all. Another thing is VR needs some free space which is not available to everyone, however wireless headsets can at least partially help with this issue (you can take it outside or move to another room and play wirelessly either streaming from your PC or natively on Quest).
There's really cool / chill experiences on PCVR like a kayak game, but I can't spend money on a PCVR only headset. I have a Quest 3 and it's such a hassle to set up Oculus Link on top of the PC running - that I end up playing Quest games only.
Which is where I am a bit mystified by the article's claim of "hyper realistic" games. Even on PCVR the quality of PC VR games in general is quite low. We're a far cry from hyper realistic experiences. Typically either the graphics suffer and you have smooth FPS or the graphics are great and you have bad FPS, or you are a rich person that owns an RTX 4090 etc.
For me it's only a matter of a few more years. Most games on Quest atm to me look like cheap mobile games. I hate those low poly / untextured styled games with a passion.
The author perhaps does not understand that to make truly immersive, relaxing experiences in VR you need a LOT more power. There 's nothing very relaxing about being in a forest made of low poly trees, shitty looking water and distant scenery that looks blurry AF.
Even on YouTube at the best quality I can find, there is hardly anything truly relaxing or immersive. Take a random video of the Grand Canyon in VR and everything in the distance is just flat.
Colours is also a huge problem. Watch a VR video of someone walking on the beach : the sky is blue yes but a weird half light blue that is nowhere near anything like the kind of brightness of the real sky. It's all deadened and flat.
The technology just isn't there. So right now, violent, in your face action is where VR shines. Typically anything that moves, and anything that comes close to the camera gives a much better sense of immersion. I find myself often times almost putting my nose to everything because it's when things are up close that you get that sense of 3D the most. Anything taht is even a couple meters away becomes flat and featureless.
Anyway I could just rant on and on. VR is great. The kind of games that currently do well on it do so for a reason. I'd love to just travel in VR, to be immersed on some remote island, basking in the sun, or to listen to the crickets and watch the starry sky.. all those things currently are awful experiences in VR due to the technical limitations.
Which is where I am a bit mystified by the article's claim of "hyper realistic" games. Even on PCVR the quality of PC VR games in general is quite low. We're a far cry from hyper realistic experiences. Typically either the graphics suffer and you have smooth FPS or the graphics are great and you have bad FPS, or you are a rich person that owns an RTX 4090 etc.
For me it's only a matter of a few more years. Most games on Quest atm to me look like cheap mobile games. I hate those low poly / untextured styled games with a passion.
The author perhaps does not understand that to make truly immersive, relaxing experiences in VR you need a LOT more power. There 's nothing very relaxing about being in a forest made of low poly trees, shitty looking water and distant scenery that looks blurry AF.
Even on YouTube at the best quality I can find, there is hardly anything truly relaxing or immersive. Take a random video of the Grand Canyon in VR and everything in the distance is just flat.
Colours is also a huge problem. Watch a VR video of someone walking on the beach : the sky is blue yes but a weird half light blue that is nowhere near anything like the kind of brightness of the real sky. It's all deadened and flat.
The technology just isn't there. So right now, violent, in your face action is where VR shines. Typically anything that moves, and anything that comes close to the camera gives a much better sense of immersion. I find myself often times almost putting my nose to everything because it's when things are up close that you get that sense of 3D the most. Anything taht is even a couple meters away becomes flat and featureless.
Anyway I could just rant on and on. VR is great. The kind of games that currently do well on it do so for a reason. I'd love to just travel in VR, to be immersed on some remote island, basking in the sun, or to listen to the crickets and watch the starry sky.. all those things currently are awful experiences in VR due to the technical limitations.
VR is interesting; we think we want VR, and we probably do, but this is like saying we wanted airliners before we actually had the technology to build one. Most recent VR headsets feel, relatively speaking, like those crazy early flying contraptions that simply couldn't deliver on the promise. At best, the state of the art is equivalent to the Wright Flyer - amazing demo, not quite ready for mass adoption.
Until VR headsets provide a seamless, pleasant experience, they will remain in the hands of early adopters and enthusiasts.
Until VR headsets provide a seamless, pleasant experience, they will remain in the hands of early adopters and enthusiasts.
The last thing I want to do after working all day is to come home and put on a headset and be disorientated. That isn't my idea of fun, or entertainment and there are many people who feel the same way I do. There isn't a single thing any of the tech companies could do, or not do, to make me a VR or AR user. I don't care how realistic it is, how lightweight the headset is, or how well the tracking works. I just don't want to put on a headset, and I never will.
> Striking a box releases a note in the accompanying song, resulting in an experience that is half playing an instrument, and half dance.
I get the feeling the author has never actually played Beat Saber.
But I do agree it's a great example of a VR game that's accessible and fun, and that you can play for hours.
I get the feeling the author has never actually played Beat Saber.
But I do agree it's a great example of a VR game that's accessible and fun, and that you can play for hours.
All this and no mention of Eleven Table Tennis. If you’re a fan of table tennis and you have a Quest, you should try this game. It’s fantastic. The controller is about the same weight as a table tennis racquet and it’s great practice.
I wanted to love VR and bought an early unit.
VR felt like it would be the ultimate gaming experience.
Sadly it gave me a headache, made me feel sick and was a real hassle to set up and make happen.
There’s too many competing forms of entertainment without even one of these problems.
VR felt like it would be the ultimate gaming experience.
Sadly it gave me a headache, made me feel sick and was a real hassle to set up and make happen.
There’s too many competing forms of entertainment without even one of these problems.
wow one billon people trying VR by 2027, would that even happen if they gave away headsets for free? I get that it’s a lofty moonshot goal, not a real goal, but still!
Until they solve the vertigo issue it's a non-starter for me and several of my friends who would otherwise be the target market.
There has been a lot of progress in that front over time.
Unironically the standaline headsets also help because the most vertigo-inducing thing is to run PCVR with an underpowered PC. It makes you nauseous before you consciously notice the skipped frames etc.
Unironically the standaline headsets also help because the most vertigo-inducing thing is to run PCVR with an underpowered PC. It makes you nauseous before you consciously notice the skipped frames etc.
Most nausea issues come down to bad/unimaginative design, rather than being inherent to the headset. For an example, try out Gorilla Tag, which uses arm-swing movement instead of making you use a joystick.
I haven't tried Gorilla Tag, but given I can't stand still with the headset on in the Quest lobby I have my reservations.
I can't stand wearing regular glasses, imagine that bulky thing...
I always think of Tom Hall's quote from early id days.
"No one wants to strap shit to their face."
Yeah.
"No one wants to strap shit to their face."
Yeah.
I don't want to spend my life in VR, that simple.
CTRL-F Alyx… no? Ok, I’ll just skip this comment section then.
For social interaction, our tools are getting better every day. VRChat and its similars really are very, very good. A very real downside of it, though, is just how much money you need to spend to get "everything working".
At every stage, you'll want to spend more money on it, it feels like.
In the end, each of those steps is __several__ hundred dollars, and some of them require swapping out major parts of your machine for deeper and deeper immersion in the social world.