Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Worldcoin has a new Orb and is now just World
https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/18/24273691/world-orb-sam-altman-iris-scan-crypto-token
108 comments
> It soon stopped being about that
I submit that it could never have actually been about that. It may have been out of the states control but it was far to technocratic and dependent on first movers so it was always going to leave behind the class of people you hoped it would most benefit.
> the original spirit of Bitcoin
Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_. People projected quite a bit onto that.
I submit that it could never have actually been about that. It may have been out of the states control but it was far to technocratic and dependent on first movers so it was always going to leave behind the class of people you hoped it would most benefit.
> the original spirit of Bitcoin
Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_. People projected quite a bit onto that.
Yep, it was very obviously going to produce landgrab dynamics. Like... it would be utterly astounding for someone not to see that from day one.
All of the banks and state regulation keep getting in the way. It’s like there’s a fence in the middle of a path — all we need to do is get rid of the fence and everything will obviously improve.
Not sure if that's earnest or satirical - remove all the regulation, and things will improve for some, but I am not optimistic they'll be ordinary people. It seems much more likely to me that wild-west financial transactions will benefit banks and not ordinary folks? I am quite fond of regulations limiting arbitrary fees, for example...
I believe GP's comment is a reference of Chesterton's Fence [1] (an excellent image to load into your brain!). I think they agree with you.
[1] https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
[1] https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
That, and also adding that naive reformist attitudes are incredibly common. Chesterton’s fence is a cognitive tool a lot of people don’t have, or that they only manage to apply in one narrow field of expertise. “I don’t know how anyone could think X” where X is a naive position, is kind of funny, so I replied kind of funnily to remind people that the underlying principle is not obvious.
This was explicitly the aim of projects like Urbit too, literally feudal lords ruling over their virtual real estate lol
You say that, but I remember the talk in 2009-2011 being about replacing Visa, not about hodling and speculation.
Right, which was a mixture of dishonesty, self-delusion, and naivety from the start.
A deflationary asset will only ever be used for hodling and speculation.
Also, Visa works almost literally flawlessly for tens of billions of dollars of transactions (hundreds of millions of individual transactions) every day. A technologically inferior system wasn’t going to replace it regardless of its ideological purity.
A deflationary asset will only ever be used for hodling and speculation.
Also, Visa works almost literally flawlessly for tens of billions of dollars of transactions (hundreds of millions of individual transactions) every day. A technologically inferior system wasn’t going to replace it regardless of its ideological purity.
>Is effectively "you don't need permission." That's _it_
Also anonymous or semi anonymous. Worldcoin is largely about that.
Also anonymous or semi anonymous. Worldcoin is largely about that.
I'm glad you came around, yes the correct solution is to eat Sam Altman and not to let him invent his own private currency.
I don't want to be the wet blanket... but this is just another "crypto bro" peddling yet another scam, err... "ICO". Only this time the elite's behind the project will have everyone's biometric data too.
> with the working class taking power for themselves
This is exactly the opposite of that. Sam has a rocky history with conflicts-of-interest and self-promotion. I don't see any reason we should trust him or his organization with this attempted consolidation of economic and identity powers.
FTA:
> Last year, Kenya suspended World while it investigated its practices surrounding data collection (it has since dropped its investigation). Hong Kong asked World to stop all operations in the country over privacy risks, while both Portugal and Spain have also taken action against the project.
> with the working class taking power for themselves
This is exactly the opposite of that. Sam has a rocky history with conflicts-of-interest and self-promotion. I don't see any reason we should trust him or his organization with this attempted consolidation of economic and identity powers.
FTA:
> Last year, Kenya suspended World while it investigated its practices surrounding data collection (it has since dropped its investigation). Hong Kong asked World to stop all operations in the country over privacy risks, while both Portugal and Spain have also taken action against the project.
>It soon stopped being about that
It's because everyone forgot about Chesterton's Fence. Stuff like the emergence of exchanges and the story of Magic The Gathering Online Exchange in particular are the result of people realizing those fences were necessary.
There are very good reasons that the currencies we trust are managed and regulated by reputable banks and countries.
It's because everyone forgot about Chesterton's Fence. Stuff like the emergence of exchanges and the story of Magic The Gathering Online Exchange in particular are the result of people realizing those fences were necessary.
There are very good reasons that the currencies we trust are managed and regulated by reputable banks and countries.
> “To provide access to every human, we need more Orbs. Lots more Orbs. Probably on the order of a thousand times more Orbs than we have today,” Heley said. “Not only more Orbs but more Orbs in more places.”
What a blob of a thing to say. And ‘access’ isn’t even a thing people want. There’s few companies I hope for bankruptcy and this is one of them
What a blob of a thing to say. And ‘access’ isn’t even a thing people want. There’s few companies I hope for bankruptcy and this is one of them
> And ‘access’ isn’t even a thing people want
They will want to access orb if orb is needed to maintain daily live in some dystopian version of the future:)
They will want to access orb if orb is needed to maintain daily live in some dystopian version of the future:)
In London they had two Orbs and they seemed to run out of people to scan after a month or so. I'm not sure more Orbs will fix that.
I've not researched how this works, but this definitely feels like one of those things where if you dig deep enough into it, it boils down to "we verify your 'humanness' by checking that there's your biometric data signed by our private key, for which the public key is hardcoded everywhere, so trust us please".
It actually uses a lot of modern cryptography (zero knowledge proofs, multiparty computation, decentralized consensus, etc) to avoid exactly that.
Someone is gonna reverse engineer their orb and add a couple thousand fake people with fake biometrics to the database - or just pay people to borrow their WorldID.
I feel like the former could probably be avoided if they use an ORWL-PC-like thing to ensure that an on-device generated private key can’t be extracted, and use some kind of like, video recording from multiple cameras to demonstrate that the construction of the device didn’t differ from the standard, and showing the public key it produced, and had such footage signed by trusted parties, as part of the like, certificate for the public key that the device uses?
Of course,
1) I doubt they did this
2) This still kicks the can down to “why do you trust the authorities who signed the alleged footage showing the construction of the device”. (You can kick the can further by having the cameras also have such infeasible-to-extract private keys, but encounter the same problem)
Of course,
1) I doubt they did this
2) This still kicks the can down to “why do you trust the authorities who signed the alleged footage showing the construction of the device”. (You can kick the can further by having the cameras also have such infeasible-to-extract private keys, but encounter the same problem)
The white paper has all the details
https://whitepaper.world.org/
https://whitepaper.world.org/
If there is a problem with trust, in human-made technologies there will always be a link in the chain where trust can be violated by a human; the higher up the chain the link, the bigger the impact of the violation.
On the other hand, if there is no problem with trust (humans are all nice to each other), then trying to enforce trust through the straightjacket of Worldcoin and other blockchain technologies is a complete waste of resources.
And it’s more than just waste. There is a well-known labeling effect in psychology, where the way people are treated affects the way they act by making them subconsciously adapt to what is expected of them. (If you are treated as if you were dumb as a student, your actual capability and intelligence may not even matter: unless you happen to be sociopathic enough—no judgement, welcome to the club—it becomes your persona; later, every verification in daily life is a subtle invitation into the mind of those abusing the system and benefitting from it enough to warrant the extra checks.) It always makes me think about the implications of such technologies becoming part of the fabric of society where all humans are treated as inherently untrustworthy.
Making it more difficult to violate trust, with appropriately increased payoff, is never the solution—it only raises the incentives. The solution is to work with humans, understand what causes us to want to violate it in the first place, and treat them as inherently trustoworthy by allowing violation at lower levels where the impact is smaller.
On the other hand, if there is no problem with trust (humans are all nice to each other), then trying to enforce trust through the straightjacket of Worldcoin and other blockchain technologies is a complete waste of resources.
And it’s more than just waste. There is a well-known labeling effect in psychology, where the way people are treated affects the way they act by making them subconsciously adapt to what is expected of them. (If you are treated as if you were dumb as a student, your actual capability and intelligence may not even matter: unless you happen to be sociopathic enough—no judgement, welcome to the club—it becomes your persona; later, every verification in daily life is a subtle invitation into the mind of those abusing the system and benefitting from it enough to warrant the extra checks.) It always makes me think about the implications of such technologies becoming part of the fabric of society where all humans are treated as inherently untrustworthy.
Making it more difficult to violate trust, with appropriately increased payoff, is never the solution—it only raises the incentives. The solution is to work with humans, understand what causes us to want to violate it in the first place, and treat them as inherently trustoworthy by allowing violation at lower levels where the impact is smaller.
[deleted]
I would give up the internet before I register my biometric ID with Sam Altman’s crypto orb.
So if I understand this right, this is a physical thing you stand in front of to prove that you are a unique human before making some transaction with another possibly unique human...
You stand in front of the Orb. The Orb scans your biometric data and stores it in Sam's Database (Sam says he doesn't own the database, something something blockchain good of humanity - but Sam doesn't "own" OpenAI either).
Once the Orb gathers enough people's biometrics, the Orb will become the gatekeeper for transactions. The Orb will verify your identity and humanity. Sam's Database will be more precise than your social security number, more secure than your bank login, internationally transcendent, and secured by the rigid and infallible laws of cryptocurrency. The history of crypto has shown us that ownership of tokens is a good and safe way to verify people's identities and uniqueness, and that fraud is basically impossible with these systems.
National governments will use Sam's Database to assign Universal Basic Income as AGI decimates the need for labor, shortly before they collapse and give way to the AI world government. Sam's database will contain the unique identifiers of every human, giving our benevolent AI overlord a head start on getting to know us all and making our lives richer and more wonderful than we could possibly dream, by [unspecified].
Prostrate yourself before the Orb. Give it your most ineffable data. Invest your money in Sam's database. He is a responsible steward.
Once the Orb gathers enough people's biometrics, the Orb will become the gatekeeper for transactions. The Orb will verify your identity and humanity. Sam's Database will be more precise than your social security number, more secure than your bank login, internationally transcendent, and secured by the rigid and infallible laws of cryptocurrency. The history of crypto has shown us that ownership of tokens is a good and safe way to verify people's identities and uniqueness, and that fraud is basically impossible with these systems.
National governments will use Sam's Database to assign Universal Basic Income as AGI decimates the need for labor, shortly before they collapse and give way to the AI world government. Sam's database will contain the unique identifiers of every human, giving our benevolent AI overlord a head start on getting to know us all and making our lives richer and more wonderful than we could possibly dream, by [unspecified].
Prostrate yourself before the Orb. Give it your most ineffable data. Invest your money in Sam's database. He is a responsible steward.
> National governments will use Sam's Database to assign Universal Basic Income
Didn't the big UBI study come to the conclusion that UBI didn't work (meaning, folks in the control group without UBI were better off at the end of the study than those who received it)? Honest question ; I'm fuzzy on the details.
Didn't the big UBI study come to the conclusion that UBI didn't work (meaning, folks in the control group without UBI were better off at the end of the study than those who received it)? Honest question ; I'm fuzzy on the details.
That was the conclusion Pete Judo came to: https://youtu.be/oyoMgGiWgJQ
I mean besides that everything else in OPs comment checks out.
I will clarify that World is doing this today (albeit independent of government involvement): https://blockworks.co/news/empire-newsletter-worldcoin-ubi
I often wonder if Peter Thiel is somewhere, laughing bitterly into a glass of terrible overpriced gin that only a billionaire would drink: "this fuckin' guy... this is my schtick"
I assume there's some element of being very angry that "it's not me" but an even larger element of "but at least it's one of us rich elite ruling class techbros and not the proles".
Well, kind of. It's also a physical thing that you stand in front of to give up a bunch of biometric information to go in some database somewhere for...some reason that is unspecified. The fact that they're doing it "for free" suggests to me that there is some purpose to it that makes it profitable in spite of the costs. Given how much everyone's data is actually worth, I suspect that the reason it's free is because the biometric data has a bunch of intrinsic value such that it's worth building a bunch of hardware and giving away monopoly money.
> some reason that is unspecified.
Their end goal is for you to need this to use the internet.
> something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.
https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...
Their end goal is for you to need this to use the internet.
> something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.
https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...
[deleted]
Wow, “whether you like it or not” directly contradicts the “for the good of humanity” of their proposal. That’s what autocrats say
If that goal is actually achieved, then the internet instantly becomes a tool I can no longer use.
If that ever happens, nothing of value is lost.
Does anyone else find it creepy that they want to control who can access the internet? You know, the thing you use to pay bills, do banking, look for jobs, and communicate with people? Being able to lock people out is definitely something they could monetize by charging fines or fees for continued access.
Does anyone else find it creepy that they want to control who can access the internet? You know, the thing you use to pay bills, do banking, look for jobs, and communicate with people? Being able to lock people out is definitely something they could monetize by charging fines or fees for continued access.
>bunch of biometric information to go in some database somewhere for...some reason that is unspecified
They just take a pic of your eyes to prevent you getting multiple accounts.
They just take a pic of your eyes to prevent you getting multiple accounts.
Did Sam ever satisfactorily answer why they seeded the database not in say, Silicon Valley, or the US, but in some of the most impoverished regions in Africa, and offering "insane" amounts - like in some cases two months salary or more?
Sam needs to hire a consultant when he wants to name products. First it was ChatGPT, then came the 4o's and o-1's, and now this. "World" is not easy to pronounce for some non-English speakers (the "rld" part). For a product literally meant to be used by everyone, that's quite the faux pas.
I get that this solution is distasteful. But verifying humanity on the Internet is a real problem that is getting harder and more important very quickly. CAPTCHAs aren't going to work much longer. What is a solution that people can live with?
Playing devil's advocate: why is it important? Why do we need to know if an agent on the internet is human or robot?
Generally what we actually need to know is if a given agent is engaging in manipulative behavior, illegal activities, or otherwise causing harm to us or our customers. Those behaviors are often correlated with robot agents, which has allowed us to use "is this a robot" as an imperfect proxy for "is this agent up to no good". But for most use cases the humanity isn't actually what we're interested in, it's whether the agent is abusive.
In a world where we can't verify humanity as easily, maybe we just need to find different proxies for abuse detection?
Generally what we actually need to know is if a given agent is engaging in manipulative behavior, illegal activities, or otherwise causing harm to us or our customers. Those behaviors are often correlated with robot agents, which has allowed us to use "is this a robot" as an imperfect proxy for "is this agent up to no good". But for most use cases the humanity isn't actually what we're interested in, it's whether the agent is abusive.
In a world where we can't verify humanity as easily, maybe we just need to find different proxies for abuse detection?
I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint. There will be applications that need human verification, but maybe in most cases it doesn't matter. It does seem to me like the endgame of this would be that everyone interacts mostly with AIs online rather than other humans, as AIs will be (at least superficially) more helpful, patient, pleasant, whatever you want. Check out this social network of AI sycophants and imagine that they start populating all the regular social networks too: https://x.com/michaelsayman/status/1835841675584811239
If Ticketmaster wants to know I'm not a bot, I guess I would be OK signing a challenge with my government issued identity card [0] - for message boards that need to avoid spam and griefers, IMO an invite only system with revokable access to everyone a bad actor handed an invite code could be sufficient
Also scanning my eyeballs to have a private corporation give the thumbs up or thumbs down on whether I can access a particular service isnt merely distasteful but dystopian in a "we already lost" kind of way
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card
Also scanning my eyeballs to have a private corporation give the thumbs up or thumbs down on whether I can access a particular service isnt merely distasteful but dystopian in a "we already lost" kind of way
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card
I think this is a totally valid question. My answer would probably be to have people actually pay for more things. I think a huge proponent of something like World is advertisers, who want to make sure that real human eyeballs are seeing your ads. But if you pay me money, I don't care if you're a rogue AI botnet running amok, I'm happy to serve your request.
So Twitter Blue/X Premium is the model of the future?
no need to reverse-engineer anything, both hardware[1] and software[2] are up on GitHub
[1]: https://github.com/worldcoin/orb-hardware [2]: https://github.com/worldcoin/orb-software
[1]: https://github.com/worldcoin/orb-hardware [2]: https://github.com/worldcoin/orb-software
<< What is a solution that people can live with?
Dropping a good portion of digital life seems like a good start.
Dropping a good portion of digital life seems like a good start.
This is a solution I could put up with as long as it wasn't being run by a company (and especially not an SV-type company, and doubly so with Worldcoin specifically). That requires me to have a ton more trust in them than I can summon.
If we have to have something like this, I want it to be run by governments instead. Governments already have our identity information anyway, so I wouldn't be leaking any data to a new entity, and if the government is remotely democratic in nature, the citizenry has more say in how things are done than they do with companies.
If we have to have something like this, I want it to be run by governments instead. Governments already have our identity information anyway, so I wouldn't be leaking any data to a new entity, and if the government is remotely democratic in nature, the citizenry has more say in how things are done than they do with companies.
Agreed, the internet is already in desperate need of a way to authenticate real humans, and we'll need it even more in 5-10 years. But it can't simply be verification via government-issued ID. The solution needs to be private, and ideally as decentralised as possible.
A real solution is to create privacy-preserving proofs regarding the state of a timestamped cryptographic feedback loop in projector-camera systems.
It's trivial to add incoming image hashes and timestamps to a Merkle tree and to derive the output hashes of projector emissions as they come, while providing an output hash to one's interlocutor (or BFT network) periodically. This proves the beginning time, end time, and sequentiality of all emissions.
Correspondence between emissions and recordings is proven by training autoencoders on concatenated projection images and returned camera images. These autoencoders are transformed using privacy preservation techniques.
Thus, human relationships and trust can be modeled and secured.
It's trivial to add incoming image hashes and timestamps to a Merkle tree and to derive the output hashes of projector emissions as they come, while providing an output hash to one's interlocutor (or BFT network) periodically. This proves the beginning time, end time, and sequentiality of all emissions.
Correspondence between emissions and recordings is proven by training autoencoders on concatenated projection images and returned camera images. These autoencoders are transformed using privacy preservation techniques.
Thus, human relationships and trust can be modeled and secured.
I'm sure this is fine, and there is no reason to be concerned that the same very rich person is behind this device as the AI technology whose worst outcomes it exists to combat.
Also there's a blockchain so that's great! I know you're not a crypto evangelist on Twitter anymore, or an NFT evangelist, and now you're an AI consultant and solutions provider. But here it is -- that great application for the blockchain you were all so sure was coming all along.
All tied up with one neat looped bow that can make you feel like it isn't somehow some empty, culture-destroying, billionaire-welfare griftapolooza.
And it's even a bit YCombinator because Sam Altman, right? He was always going to make it. He's got the killer instinct.
Also there's a blockchain so that's great! I know you're not a crypto evangelist on Twitter anymore, or an NFT evangelist, and now you're an AI consultant and solutions provider. But here it is -- that great application for the blockchain you were all so sure was coming all along.
All tied up with one neat looped bow that can make you feel like it isn't somehow some empty, culture-destroying, billionaire-welfare griftapolooza.
And it's even a bit YCombinator because Sam Altman, right? He was always going to make it. He's got the killer instinct.
Wasnt there a scifi movie about mysterious Pod/Sphere showing up promising to teleport people to another world, but then it turns out it was all a conspiracy by a crazy scientist and all the scanned people were just disintegrated to help out Earth ecosystem recover from overpopulation? Hmmm there it is https://www.reddit.com/r/NameThatMovie/comments/190d0fb/im_l...
Deus (2022)
TLDR: Orb eyeball scanning might be first step of some crazy Population control conspiracy :)
TLDR: Orb eyeball scanning might be first step of some crazy Population control conspiracy :)
[deleted]
I'm sure there's already a plan to monetize and privatize what's soon to be the most valuable biometric database on earth.
Plus it's cute how they developed the problem [reaction] solution in parallel. [1]
> Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.
Par for the course for the Davos types.
[1] https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...
Plus it's cute how they developed the problem [reaction] solution in parallel. [1]
> Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.
Par for the course for the Davos types.
[1] https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/10/an-or...
> Sam the snake
Please edit personal attacks out of your HN comments, as the site guidelines ask: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may not owe people whom you call snakes better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.
This applies regardless of who the person in question is, because it's not about them, it's about us, i.e. the group you belong to.
Please edit personal attacks out of your HN comments, as the site guidelines ask: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may not owe people whom you call snakes better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.
This applies regardless of who the person in question is, because it's not about them, it's about us, i.e. the group you belong to.
> > verify [that you are human] on the internet
IMO it's crucial that we keep in mind the policy/engineering differences between:
1. Prove you're a human and share your global permanent ID.
2. Prove you're probably human.
3. Prove that if you're a bot you're at least the high-quality kind that isn't part of an army and whose operators are likely to follow the rules.
In many cases #1 is overkill, difficult to engineer, has reams of nasty privacy implications, and requires a massive amount of bureaucracy for edge-cases.
Most websites are happy with #2 or even #3.
[Edit: Some prior musings in comments here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41714245 , where someone also mentions Worldcoin.]
IMO it's crucial that we keep in mind the policy/engineering differences between:
1. Prove you're a human and share your global permanent ID.
2. Prove you're probably human.
3. Prove that if you're a bot you're at least the high-quality kind that isn't part of an army and whose operators are likely to follow the rules.
In many cases #1 is overkill, difficult to engineer, has reams of nasty privacy implications, and requires a massive amount of bureaucracy for edge-cases.
Most websites are happy with #2 or even #3.
[Edit: Some prior musings in comments here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41714245 , where someone also mentions Worldcoin.]
The finance industry has strict KYC laws to prevent fraud and funding of other criminal pursuits. Now we have several converging trends:
- we need to know if anyone ever says anything doubleplus ungood so we can punish them with a lifetime exile from society. what qualifies depends on the day and if mercury is in retrograde.
- data is useful for making money
- human verification on an AI-enshittified net becomes practically "required" to get any "legitimate" content, by which i mean the dreck we had pre-2022 as opposed to post-2022.
- everything as a subscription service
- also the ghost of web 3.0
More parties are incentivized to hoover more data. So although #1 is overkill and everything else you listed, it's the path more companies will be taking in a neverending arms race.
- we need to know if anyone ever says anything doubleplus ungood so we can punish them with a lifetime exile from society. what qualifies depends on the day and if mercury is in retrograde.
- data is useful for making money
- human verification on an AI-enshittified net becomes practically "required" to get any "legitimate" content, by which i mean the dreck we had pre-2022 as opposed to post-2022.
- everything as a subscription service
- also the ghost of web 3.0
More parties are incentivized to hoover more data. So although #1 is overkill and everything else you listed, it's the path more companies will be taking in a neverending arms race.
> Something like World ID will eventually exist, meaning that you will need to verify [that you are human] on the internet, whether you like it or not. I think that's certainly going to happen with the progress in AI.
No thanks. I would prefer to just opt out.
No thanks. I would prefer to just opt out.
Anonymity and lack of accountability/a target to attack on the internet is just a huge pain in the ass for most governments and corporate interests.
It is also useful, to some extent, for bot farms, propaganda, opinion influencing and spycraft. But if you're a government controlling the "internet id" for your or other nations, then you can easily make affordances for whipping up a "valid" fake digital personage.
That it still exists is a technical and political challenge that will eventually be resolved. There's too much money and soft and hard power to be gained by getting rid of it.
It is also useful, to some extent, for bot farms, propaganda, opinion influencing and spycraft. But if you're a government controlling the "internet id" for your or other nations, then you can easily make affordances for whipping up a "valid" fake digital personage.
That it still exists is a technical and political challenge that will eventually be resolved. There's too much money and soft and hard power to be gained by getting rid of it.
If this was necessary to solve a problem, why wouldn't the existing Internet access points simply solve the problems?
For example, why would Apple not add liveness detection to its devices, which users already trust with their biometric data?
One could imagine a Web standard that specifies minimum capabilities for user agents, which could then be implemented in a variety of ways. Apple might use an upgraded FaceID, for example.
That would have the added benefit of being able to verify liveness anywhere, anytime, unlike the Orbs.
World feels like a ZIRP phenomenon.
For example, why would Apple not add liveness detection to its devices, which users already trust with their biometric data?
One could imagine a Web standard that specifies minimum capabilities for user agents, which could then be implemented in a variety of ways. Apple might use an upgraded FaceID, for example.
That would have the added benefit of being able to verify liveness anywhere, anytime, unlike the Orbs.
World feels like a ZIRP phenomenon.
> For example, why would Apple not add liveness detection to its devices, which users already trust with their biometric data?
That's what I always assumed too, that existing biometrics on mobile would be adequate. This World Coin Orbo bullshit doe not bring anything to the table except get sama one step closer to his wet dream fantasy of WorLD DomInaAtiOn.
That's what I always assumed too, that existing biometrics on mobile would be adequate. This World Coin Orbo bullshit doe not bring anything to the table except get sama one step closer to his wet dream fantasy of WorLD DomInaAtiOn.
This is what I thought. Finger print and face detection have been added with little fanfare. FAANG wont let this become a defacfo standard without a fight.
You won't have a choice depending on what it will gatekeep, just like how at the moment web users can't opt out of being fingerprinted [1] and data intercepted by Cloudflare when they want to visit their favourite site or have to live with never having root access to their phones if they want to use their bank's mobile app.
[1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/turnstile-ephemeral-ids-for-frau...
[1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/turnstile-ephemeral-ids-for-frau...
It is more like how you can't opt out of an okta app, cisco vpn on your phone etc. if you want a job.
Speaking of which I suspect these sort of companies not World will win this race. It wont be a new product for them. It is just a new feature.
Speaking of which I suspect these sort of companies not World will win this race. It wont be a new product for them. It is just a new feature.
> It is more like how you can't opt out of an okta app, cisco vpn on your phone etc. if you want a job.
Huh? I've never needed any apps of those natures (or any apps at all) to get and keep jobs.
Huh? I've never needed any apps of those natures (or any apps at all) to get and keep jobs.
>Something like World ID will eventually exist
It's called a national ID with an eID feature and I've been using it to verify my age when I order booze online for like a decade. It cost 5 bucks extra when I renewed my id the last time. What do I need an eyeball scanning orb and a crypto coin for something that every developed or for that matter half developed government invented in like 2010?
It's called a national ID with an eID feature and I've been using it to verify my age when I order booze online for like a decade. It cost 5 bucks extra when I renewed my id the last time. What do I need an eyeball scanning orb and a crypto coin for something that every developed or for that matter half developed government invented in like 2010?
I agree that the crypto/blockchain angle is stupid, since it only makes sense in a completely hypothetical future where somehow governments ceased to exist or don't have identity management as one of their core functions. (For some people, this is less of a system-design oversight and more of an agenda.)
That said, there's always potential to improve privacy with some clever algorithms: A lot of naive approaches would make it too easy for a government or vendor to have lots of information about your activities that they don't really need or deserve to have.
That said, there's always potential to improve privacy with some clever algorithms: A lot of naive approaches would make it too easy for a government or vendor to have lots of information about your activities that they don't really need or deserve to have.
World(coin) was always private with monetization plans. They are VC funded by a16z and the like. Though how exactly they'll monetize or not remains to be seen. You can already make payments through the app.
If we’re dealing with an all-powerful Skynet intelligence, or even a WOPR or Wintermute, won’t it just figure out how to bypass the verification system?
It is genuinely kinda fascinating, because, lets face it, based on what we are seeing now, short of omega swan event ( black swan events seem too common lately ), it will actually be a problem that will need to be solved. I am just mildly annoyed that solution to prove I am human is to effectively give last parts of me that are.
> I am just mildly annoyed that solution to prove I am human is to effectively give last parts of me that are.
What a poetic way to put it.
The market for fake eyes made on resin and plastic seems to have a brilliant future. Soon most of all 'certified 100% humans' talking on internet will be animatronic heads without a brain. Same as today
So far the orbs have been human operated and I think they'd give you a funny look if you tried it with a fake head.
If you need an orb plus an human to recognize a person, why do you need the orb. Just use the biggest cheapest technology available, just one human and no orb asking for an ID card. Or a sign of "put your card in this slot to open the door please". Well tested and reliable.
But if we think that the orb is doing something here, why not be ambitious? Lets provide each door with a device to extract blood and made a DNA analysis so is 100% granted that every time somebody enter their home is not a thief disguised as the owner
But if we think that the orb is doing something here, why not be ambitious? Lets provide each door with a device to extract blood and made a DNA analysis so is 100% granted that every time somebody enter their home is not a thief disguised as the owner
The orb is a multi-spectral imager with extreme zoom, liquid lens, and very tamper hardened. They'll be everywhere.
I doubt it. For one thing, the ergonomics of an "orb" are horrible. This is a solution looking for a problem and seemingly designed by people who took the wrong lessons from Apple's success.
Incidentally they have a typo in their announcement page[1].
> The Orb is the incluse[sic], secure and anonymous device that enables World ID holders to verify their humanness and uniqueness.
I assume "incluse" is meant to be "inclusive". But what's "inclusive" about letting a startup with foggy monetization plans collect everyone's biometrics? Sounds like bullshit.
[1] https://world.org/blog/announcements/world-unveils-new-orb-n...
Edit: I'm reminded of this old clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4
From all external appearances, "World" is being run by sales and marketing people from its inception.
Incidentally they have a typo in their announcement page[1].
> The Orb is the incluse[sic], secure and anonymous device that enables World ID holders to verify their humanness and uniqueness.
I assume "incluse" is meant to be "inclusive". But what's "inclusive" about letting a startup with foggy monetization plans collect everyone's biometrics? Sounds like bullshit.
[1] https://world.org/blog/announcements/world-unveils-new-orb-n...
Edit: I'm reminded of this old clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4
From all external appearances, "World" is being run by sales and marketing people from its inception.
> It’s also launching a new service called “Orb on Demand” (yes, it’s really called that) that will let people order Orbs “much like a pizza you would have delivered to your apartment
Great. I can't wait for captchas that requires me to pay someone to come to my home and scan my eyeballs. What a hellscape. Everyone involved should be embarrassed and shunned out of the society.
"Drink a Verification can to continue" crossed with the torment nexus. Fan-fucking-tastic.
Great. I can't wait for captchas that requires me to pay someone to come to my home and scan my eyeballs. What a hellscape. Everyone involved should be embarrassed and shunned out of the society.
"Drink a Verification can to continue" crossed with the torment nexus. Fan-fucking-tastic.
Unrelated, but it is a fascinating thought that when each of us dies there will have been exactly one thing that counts as The Stupidest Thing You Have Ever Seen. Much like we probably won’t know what sandwich will be our last, we likely won’t know if our current Stupidest Thing will be topped, so it is good to recognize and savor those moments when they happen.
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So a crypto grift-scam-bandwagonchasher pivoting to an AI grift-scam-bandwagonchasher?
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It soon stopped being about that and about "hodl" and self-enrichment. I applaud this project for being in the original spirit of Bitcoin.
I've since come to realise that the important thing is not how we organise our currency, but how we structure our social relations. We could have this currency, or Bitcoin or whatever be the global standard, but it would make no difference to our social relations based on wage labour for the owners of capital.
We are not going to solve that problem with technocratic solutions but with the working class taking power for themselves.