China sanctions US drone maker Skydio(skydio.com)
skydio.com
China sanctions US drone maker Skydio
https://www.skydio.com/blog/chinas-sanctions-on-skydio
100 comments
The US "sanctions on Chinese" are limited to US federal agencies not being allowed to use Chinese drones.
China now confidently banning Skydio entirely and also blocking them from getting batteries probably means that China has concluded that it is impossible for the US to make batteries on their own. People will bring up the recent lithium discoveries in the US but has completely forgotten the amount propaganda that has been pushed against "open pit mining" targeting both the left and the right (Joe Rogan, RFK jr.)
https://dronelife.com/2024/09/10/house-passes-countering-ccp...
China now confidently banning Skydio entirely and also blocking them from getting batteries probably means that China has concluded that it is impossible for the US to make batteries on their own. People will bring up the recent lithium discoveries in the US but has completely forgotten the amount propaganda that has been pushed against "open pit mining" targeting both the left and the right (Joe Rogan, RFK jr.)
https://dronelife.com/2024/09/10/house-passes-countering-ccp...
While it might be hard for the US to make lithium batteries that are competitive economically, there are still many countries in the world that can make them economically that are not China, eg. SK, Japan, Taiwan, and the rest of SEA. For Skydio, surviving these sanctions is just a matter of moving their supply chain away from China.
If no other batteries are as cheap as the ones from China then these sanctions could push up the price of the competitor's drones.
It is not impossible for the US to develop batteries. The problem is that it will be costly in terms of investment and the resulting product will necessarily be more expensive for consumers. While this happens Chinese companies will dominate their internal market, Asian markets, Africa and South America. The US is trying to start a fight where their consumers will be left with high inflation and a protectionist market with low innovation.
Can't say that I feel bad for them. Skydio builds inferior drones and sells them at exorbitant prices. Instead of innovating, they opt to lobby and ban the competition (DJI and Autel).
This is not atypical–however, the more you dig into the topic, the more shady they get. Worthwhile watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cb-Zv783yQ
This is not atypical–however, the more you dig into the topic, the more shady they get. Worthwhile watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cb-Zv783yQ
First I was surprised because I was under the impression that Skydio was nowhere near DJI in terms of functionality and quality, but then I see it's about Taiwan..
I feel like China is watching intently the ru-ua situation, and depending how it pans out with international support, Taiwan may find itself in hot water.
I feel like China is watching intently the ru-ua situation, and depending how it pans out with international support, Taiwan may find itself in hot water.
I've always felt like China doing a "hot war" in Taiwan would be really uncharacteristic of them. What I think is more likely is that they sponsor parties/social movements in Taiwan that support reunification. Eventually I'd imagine Taiwan would do a referendum on whether or not to join the PRC.
The way I would frame it if I were China: 1. Re-join PRC and lose some civil liberties, but hopefully not have any worse material quality of life. 2. Stay in the US sphere of influence, and continue to be the hypothetical "first theater" of WWIII. Taiwan would need to increase military readiness and always live with the threat of invasion looming.
“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.” -- Sun Tzu
The way I would frame it if I were China: 1. Re-join PRC and lose some civil liberties, but hopefully not have any worse material quality of life. 2. Stay in the US sphere of influence, and continue to be the hypothetical "first theater" of WWIII. Taiwan would need to increase military readiness and always live with the threat of invasion looming.
“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.” -- Sun Tzu
DJI has had two insight that their Western competitors lacked:
- The market wants cheap and durable high-quality cameras that can fly. Drone/flying-centric features are secondary.
- Software and "AI" features are important but they don't have moat and can be easily copied.
Skydio had more reliable person-tracking feature earlier than DJI but their camera quality has almost always been inferior to DJI.
- The market wants cheap and durable high-quality cameras that can fly. Drone/flying-centric features are secondary.
- Software and "AI" features are important but they don't have moat and can be easily copied.
Skydio had more reliable person-tracking feature earlier than DJI but their camera quality has almost always been inferior to DJI.
I find the author's letter a bit tone deaf. It acknowledges that China is sanctioning Skydio for military reasons, but ignores that the US is doing the same.
You mean with DJI? It's not remotely symmetrical. The US does not prohibit DJI from buying US parts to use in their drones. The US do not prohibit US citizens from buying DJI drones. Only the US Dept of Defense is prohibited from buying DJI equipment.
The US does this because DJI is considered a Chinese Military Company [1] (nb that DJI disputes this and asked to be removed from the list). China is sanctioning Skydio because they sold some drones to Taiwan.
[1] https://media.defense.gov/2024/Jan/31/2003384819/-1/-1/0/126...
The US does this because DJI is considered a Chinese Military Company [1] (nb that DJI disputes this and asked to be removed from the list). China is sanctioning Skydio because they sold some drones to Taiwan.
[1] https://media.defense.gov/2024/Jan/31/2003384819/-1/-1/0/126...
Last month the U.S. House of Representatives voted to "bar new drones from Chinese drone manufacturer DJI from operating in the United States"[1], and even more recently there has been reports that customs is, using some arguably phony justifications, holding up imports of DJI drones[2].
While you are right that the US has not fully passed and officially enforced a country-wide DJI ban, saying that the US is "just" banning DJI usage by the dept of defense, ignores a number of developments suggesting that the US is in the process of a more expansive ban.
[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-house-votes-bar-new-dron... [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-customs-halting-some-dro...
While you are right that the US has not fully passed and officially enforced a country-wide DJI ban, saying that the US is "just" banning DJI usage by the dept of defense, ignores a number of developments suggesting that the US is in the process of a more expansive ban.
[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-house-votes-bar-new-dron... [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-customs-halting-some-dro...
I'll also add that earlier this year, the US put a number of Chinese consumer technology companies, including DJI, on a public blacklist that designates them as "Chinese military companies". This is a clear use of the United States' diplomatic power to hurt and discredit Chinese tech businesses. Whether the US should be doing that is another issue. At the end of the day these sorts events are a common biproduct of large power politics, but the point is that China's actions are not unwarranted.
The house they always passes legislation that will never be implemented to support the base or send a message.
That signal only has meaning if the Senate or administration takes it up. For example, before the great flip of segregation advocates, the house passed legislation making lynching a federal crime for nearly 50 years. The Senate never allowed it to leave committee for a vote.
The meaning of the signal is unclear without understanding the dynamics. The MAGA idiots control it, so there’s a lot of performative legislation to keep the crowd occupied.
That signal only has meaning if the Senate or administration takes it up. For example, before the great flip of segregation advocates, the house passed legislation making lynching a federal crime for nearly 50 years. The Senate never allowed it to leave committee for a vote.
The meaning of the signal is unclear without understanding the dynamics. The MAGA idiots control it, so there’s a lot of performative legislation to keep the crowd occupied.
You would have to be naive to think that a house bill banning consumer drones is about "supporting the base". The prevalence of Chinese goods in the US is not a popular or even very partisan issue. The actions being taken against DJI has everything to do with the United States' strategic economic and military objectives.
Arguably sanctions poker should be played asymmetrically until one side folds due to uneven damage. If both sides play for even damage then neither side should sanction.
I mean in general, starting with Huawei.
Huawei got sanctions after catch on spy activity.
Who else you know?
Who else you know?
Huawei got entity listed for selling to Iran (which Nokia and many other western companies does as well). There has never been any evidence proving Huawei espionage activity, which it can obviously be used for. Only Huawei gear has enabled foreign govs to undermine US espionage / influence efforts, iirc Huawei tech helping some african country using lawful intercept technologies to bust US aligned activists.
Likewise skydio got sanctions after arming Taiwan. Can you arm Russia from within US without sanctions?
Nobody said about sanctions after arming Taiwan. It is just your guess. But about sanctions against Huawei, exists juridical cases and official statements.
Could you remember any case where US use sanctions without juridical case?
Could you remember any case where US use sanctions without juridical case?
I could make up judicial cases and sanctions galore.. It's the reason why wto exists.
Huawei is neither sanctioned by wto nor Europe (till 2029) or any other part of the world
Huawei is neither sanctioned by wto nor Europe (till 2029) or any other part of the world
From the article's opening sentence, it's clear that they are being sanctioned for doing business with Taiwan's Fire Agency, and not for any military reasons.
A few weeks ago, China announced sanctions on Skydio for selling drones to Taiwan, where our only customer today is the National Fire Agency.I don’t really think a sanctioned entity is under obligation to argue “both sides”. I doubt Chinese companies under similar conditions will do so, or have done so in the past.
Funny thing is, when I talk to Chinese people in China, nearly all of them understand why the US and China are fighting: economic reasons. There isn't the same level of hate/demonization of the US in China as there is the opposite in US.
People in China seem to be able to separate the emotions from the situation and able to understand the circumstance logically. Meanwhile, in the US, it's become more of a hate thing through nonstop anti-China propaganda.
People in China seem to be able to separate the emotions from the situation and able to understand the circumstance logically. Meanwhile, in the US, it's become more of a hate thing through nonstop anti-China propaganda.
People in the US can recognize that the fighting is caused by economic reasons, and surely the average American citizen and the average Chinese citizen don't hold animosity towards each other on a personal level.
I think manufacturing jobs moving to China hurt the middle class in the US, and that's caused a disdain for China (and US politicians who push for things like that). But otherwise, I don't think the China rhetoric is too out of touch with reality. It would be very interesting to talk to someone in China and directly compare perspectives.
I think manufacturing jobs moving to China hurt the middle class in the US, and that's caused a disdain for China (and US politicians who push for things like that). But otherwise, I don't think the China rhetoric is too out of touch with reality. It would be very interesting to talk to someone in China and directly compare perspectives.
>I think manufacturing jobs moving to China hurt the middle class in the US, and that's caused a disdain for China
Why is that China's fault? It's the American CEOs and financial consultants who are choosing to move jobs overseas, not Chinese people.
Why is that China's fault? It's the American CEOs and financial consultants who are choosing to move jobs overseas, not Chinese people.
I'm going to disagree on this one. It's not based on my personal observation.
I recently read a comment on HN on why this is. The main point of that comment suggested that in a democracy, the government has to convince the public (voters) to hate something before they can justify the action. In China, they don't have do such thing obviously. Therefore, the level of propaganda is not nearly the same.
I recently read a comment on HN on why this is. The main point of that comment suggested that in a democracy, the government has to convince the public (voters) to hate something before they can justify the action. In China, they don't have do such thing obviously. Therefore, the level of propaganda is not nearly the same.
That’s a false premise. The government in the US does not need popular approval to do things. There isn’t direct voting on any of these actions and pressure on politicians is indirect and very slow for all but extremely egregious actions.
>That’s a false premise. The government in the US does not need popular approval to do things.
Are you sure about that? Every US history class I've ever taken growing up told me about some form of propaganda usage by the US government prior to some action. WWI, WWII, Cold War, Vietnam War, Iraq War etc.
Are you sure about that? Every US history class I've ever taken growing up told me about some form of propaganda usage by the US government prior to some action. WWI, WWII, Cold War, Vietnam War, Iraq War etc.
There wasn’t propaganda before WW2. Japan hit Pearl Harbor and the US was at war by the time people were just hearing about it.
The only propaganda before Vietnam was the general red scare. Nothing specifically prepping people to go to war in Vietnam. Once there, propaganda definitely ramped up to keep people happy with a draft.
The point is that no approval is needed to do stuff. There is often propaganda later to help justify it, but that doesn’t limit the speed or capability of what can be done.
The only propaganda before Vietnam was the general red scare. Nothing specifically prepping people to go to war in Vietnam. Once there, propaganda definitely ramped up to keep people happy with a draft.
The point is that no approval is needed to do stuff. There is often propaganda later to help justify it, but that doesn’t limit the speed or capability of what can be done.
Propaganda is as much about convincing "the people" as it is convincing the "internal apparatus". Of course, for something like WWI, you have to have propaganda because the effort required is too large -- you can't do WWI or WWII with the apparatus alone.
But it's very important, even for the people "on the inside", to believe that they are fighting for the right cause, to be able to rationalize their actions. If you need something morally fraught to be done (like fight a war), the people doing it, regardless of who they work for on paper, are much more effective if they believe in their hearts that it's the right thing to do. Propaganda isn't really about convincing people do to things, it's about giving them the emotional toolkit to justify doing things with purpose and pride.
But it's very important, even for the people "on the inside", to believe that they are fighting for the right cause, to be able to rationalize their actions. If you need something morally fraught to be done (like fight a war), the people doing it, regardless of who they work for on paper, are much more effective if they believe in their hearts that it's the right thing to do. Propaganda isn't really about convincing people do to things, it's about giving them the emotional toolkit to justify doing things with purpose and pride.
manufacturing jobs aren't moving to China
they have moved already, they're completely done moving. heck, by this point many are trying to move them back into the USA only to realize that it takes decaces to reach the level of quality we all want and even expect
they have moved already, they're completely done moving. heck, by this point many are trying to move them back into the USA only to realize that it takes decaces to reach the level of quality we all want and even expect
Is this actually true? From what Ive seen and read, the US is constantly demonized in the Chinese media.
The fact that people actually ask this question, shows how people in the west (assuming you are from there) only see China through mainstream media. No offense to you in particular.
In China, if you walk around the street in any city, you can see many American brands such as McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks, Microsoft, Apple. American logos are proudly displayed. If you walk into a cafe, you will more often than not, hear American music. Chinese cinemas will show Hollywood movies. They have statues of Kobe Bryant and when the NBA plays there, they get hundreds of thousands of fans. This is all in 2024, by the way.
Meanwhile, in America, everything Chinese will inevitably get the "China bad" treatment. Chinese companies doing business in America have to hide the fact that they're Chinese. Google "Is company..." and often the top autocomplete results includes something like "Is x company Chinese?".
The level of propaganda is not nearly the same on both sides.
Go to China and see for yourself. I just came back from Shenzhen. Absolutely stunning modern city that feels like it's 5 years ahead of anywhere I've been to. It's extremely safe for foreigners. Ridiculously safe actually. By my estimation, 80% of the cars on the road are EVs. Super clean air, cleaner than most American cities nowadays. You never hear about this stuff in western mainstream media.
In China, if you walk around the street in any city, you can see many American brands such as McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks, Microsoft, Apple. American logos are proudly displayed. If you walk into a cafe, you will more often than not, hear American music. Chinese cinemas will show Hollywood movies. They have statues of Kobe Bryant and when the NBA plays there, they get hundreds of thousands of fans. This is all in 2024, by the way.
Meanwhile, in America, everything Chinese will inevitably get the "China bad" treatment. Chinese companies doing business in America have to hide the fact that they're Chinese. Google "Is company..." and often the top autocomplete results includes something like "Is x company Chinese?".
The level of propaganda is not nearly the same on both sides.
Go to China and see for yourself. I just came back from Shenzhen. Absolutely stunning modern city that feels like it's 5 years ahead of anywhere I've been to. It's extremely safe for foreigners. Ridiculously safe actually. By my estimation, 80% of the cars on the road are EVs. Super clean air, cleaner than most American cities nowadays. You never hear about this stuff in western mainstream media.
75% of Chinese report negative views of the US: https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/how-do-chinese-p...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-American_sentiment_in_m...
Apparently 60% responded that the killing of Bin Laden was a bad thing because he was an anti-american warrior.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-American_sentiment_in_m...
Apparently 60% responded that the killing of Bin Laden was a bad thing because he was an anti-american warrior.
>75% of Chinese report negative views of the US
I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing the type of negative view and the degree.
I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing the type of negative view and the degree.
I was under the impression there was a large demographic of Chinese who would buy Huawei phones over iPhones because they were Chinese and not American, despite the chip being being a few generations behind an iPhone.
Meaning, there are people in China who are nationalistic, as there are in America. And these have enough of a Chinese over American view they would purchase an arguably worse product for their views.
As for cultural exports, I think America just dominates the world in that regard. If you want to use that as a comparison China would have to have equivalent cultural exports to be a fair point. And as far as I know most people have no qualms with eating Panda Express, PF Changs, or small Chinese takeouts, which is a Chinese cultural export.
>Super clean air, cleaner than most American cities nowadays.
I'm skeptical of that. I'd concede if you provided data but a quick Google search for AQI right now says the worst US city NYC is 54 AQI and Shenzhen is 56. Los Angeles is 33, SF is 19. (source IQAir)
Meaning, there are people in China who are nationalistic, as there are in America. And these have enough of a Chinese over American view they would purchase an arguably worse product for their views.
As for cultural exports, I think America just dominates the world in that regard. If you want to use that as a comparison China would have to have equivalent cultural exports to be a fair point. And as far as I know most people have no qualms with eating Panda Express, PF Changs, or small Chinese takeouts, which is a Chinese cultural export.
>Super clean air, cleaner than most American cities nowadays.
I'm skeptical of that. I'd concede if you provided data but a quick Google search for AQI right now says the worst US city NYC is 54 AQI and Shenzhen is 56. Los Angeles is 33, SF is 19. (source IQAir)
Meaning, there are people in China who are nationalistic, as there are in America. And these have enough of a Chinese over American view they would purchase an arguably worse product for their views.
As for cultural exports, I think America just dominates the world in that regard. If you want to use that as a comparison China would have to have equivalent cultural exports to be a fair point. And as far as I know most people have no qualms with eating Panda Express, PF Changs, or small Chinese takeouts, which is a Chinese cultural export.
The cultural export power of America is precisely one of the main reasons why I sense that the level of anti-American sentiment in China is not nearly as bad as the anti-China sentiment in the US.
I'm skeptical of that. I'd concede if you provided data but a quick Google search for AQI right now says the worst US city NYC is 54 AQI and Shenzhen is 56. Los Angeles is 33, SF is 19. (source IQAir)
>The data is just me walking on any street in Shenzhen and almost never smelling any gasoline or feel the heat from cars.
If we're basing our arguments on opinions then I'm not sure there's any value in this discussion for me.
If we're basing our arguments on opinions then I'm not sure there's any value in this discussion for me.
Does AQI capture the experience of walking around the street?
>It's extremely safe for foreigners.
I wonder if the parents of the Japanese boy stabbed on the way to school last month would agree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Shenzhen_stabbing
I wonder if the parents of the Japanese boy stabbed on the way to school last month would agree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Shenzhen_stabbing
That was notable because of how unusual it was. Chinese cities are extremely safe, generally speaking.
In the West we have a general consensus that any encroachment on freedom in the name of safety isn’t worth the trade. People even go so far as to claim that those who would choose safety don’t deserve it, which I find completely uncalled for and unnecessarily strident. A lot of Asian countries (China, Japan, Singapore) have no such problem, and view the US as a generally unsafe country.
In the West we have a general consensus that any encroachment on freedom in the name of safety isn’t worth the trade. People even go so far as to claim that those who would choose safety don’t deserve it, which I find completely uncalled for and unnecessarily strident. A lot of Asian countries (China, Japan, Singapore) have no such problem, and view the US as a generally unsafe country.
What do you mean by "everything Chinese will inevitably get the "China bad" treatment."
China is either the 2nd or 3rd largest trading partner of the US. A large amount of our finished consumer good come from there as well are raw industrial inputs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa... https://usafacts.org/articles/who-are-the-uss-top-trade-part...
China is either the 2nd or 3rd largest trading partner of the US. A large amount of our finished consumer good come from there as well are raw industrial inputs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa... https://usafacts.org/articles/who-are-the-uss-top-trade-part...
China mostly exports goods lower on the value chain. When China tries to move up in the value chain such as exporting whole cars, phones, networking gear, software, that's where the "China bad" becomes much more of a problem for Chinese companies.
I have seen concerns about Chinese software and network gear along the lines of "if this is compromised we would loose everything", which is not a bad position from a security standpoint.
Phones: There was a very large acceptance of OnePlus and other Chinese phones in the US.
Cars: China has just recently started to try and export cars to the US and it looks like the US is putting up trade barriers to prevent that. There are several factors in this, i.e. domestic worker protection.
The only one that may be considered "China Bad" is network gear and software, since the concern is the state apparatus compromising the product being received.
For all other's I have not seen a daemonization of China or Chinese people.
Phones: There was a very large acceptance of OnePlus and other Chinese phones in the US.
Cars: China has just recently started to try and export cars to the US and it looks like the US is putting up trade barriers to prevent that. There are several factors in this, i.e. domestic worker protection.
The only one that may be considered "China Bad" is network gear and software, since the concern is the state apparatus compromising the product being received.
For all other's I have not seen a daemonization of China or Chinese people.
None of the things you listed mean much when it comes to ethno-nationalism. There are a lot of Chinese that love American brands but still hate the US for nationalist reasons.
Among my relatives I would say all are anti-US. About 5-6 of them vehemently so and want the war to start immediately.
I grew up in China and if you think there’s less propaganda in China compared to the US I don’t know what to tell you.
Among my relatives I would say all are anti-US. About 5-6 of them vehemently so and want the war to start immediately.
I grew up in China and if you think there’s less propaganda in China compared to the US I don’t know what to tell you.
I agree with most of what you said (especially the safety part). But in my experience anti-US sentiment is a part of anti-outsider skepticism more broadly. And there’s a justifiable history to it, with a century of humiliation and occupation that the US was a part of (although less than Japan/UK).
Basically they see anti-China sanctions as a continuation of foreign bullying.
Basically they see anti-China sanctions as a continuation of foreign bullying.
Nobody relies on that in China
I sonetimes come across Global Times articles which are subtly nuanced, not by demonizing the US but by promoting the Chinese narrative instead instead.
Nah it's more than that.
China is different. Really different. Our old adversaries the Russians/Soviets are like brotherly chums compared to the Chinese.
China has always had a separate sphere of influence, distinct language, culture, religions, geography. It's way out there.
Look at all the conflicts the West has had with Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. Those were not merely economic wars. There was ideology involved at every step. Go back thousands of years, and see the Assyrians evangelizing China (not so effective or memorable.) See the Jesuits and other missionaries landing in Asia and making some inroads, then getting expelled, persecuted, martyred.
The big trouble is, with China, Americans have freely entangled ourselves economically with them for a long, long time. And this made for a tacit friendship, while we were fundamentally opposed in other aspects. But China patiently manufactured luxurious silk, delicious opium, cheap toys, and worthless crap to send us, and they Hoovered up all our debt, and our garbage and "recycling", and they bought controlling interests in businesses such as banks and whatnot.
But an economic relationship is not a friendship, it's transactional, and hopefully it's equalizing, and our economic agreements have been stable enough, but they're not strong enough to overcome ideologies.
So now you can see, perhaps, why Americans are scared and looking to extricate ourselves. I wouldn't say it's about "protectionism" because that has some negative or extreme connotations. I'd just say we're trying to be not so globalist, because the globalism eventually comes back to haunt us.
China is different. Really different. Our old adversaries the Russians/Soviets are like brotherly chums compared to the Chinese.
China has always had a separate sphere of influence, distinct language, culture, religions, geography. It's way out there.
Look at all the conflicts the West has had with Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. Those were not merely economic wars. There was ideology involved at every step. Go back thousands of years, and see the Assyrians evangelizing China (not so effective or memorable.) See the Jesuits and other missionaries landing in Asia and making some inroads, then getting expelled, persecuted, martyred.
The big trouble is, with China, Americans have freely entangled ourselves economically with them for a long, long time. And this made for a tacit friendship, while we were fundamentally opposed in other aspects. But China patiently manufactured luxurious silk, delicious opium, cheap toys, and worthless crap to send us, and they Hoovered up all our debt, and our garbage and "recycling", and they bought controlling interests in businesses such as banks and whatnot.
But an economic relationship is not a friendship, it's transactional, and hopefully it's equalizing, and our economic agreements have been stable enough, but they're not strong enough to overcome ideologies.
So now you can see, perhaps, why Americans are scared and looking to extricate ourselves. I wouldn't say it's about "protectionism" because that has some negative or extreme connotations. I'd just say we're trying to be not so globalist, because the globalism eventually comes back to haunt us.
[deleted]
The people don’t fight. The governments do. War is the racket where the government convinces the people to die for them.
Nobody dislikes the Chinese people . But we also recognize that China has ambitions to expand its territory and we assume that the us government will oppose that.
Nobody dislikes the Chinese people . But we also recognize that China has ambitions to expand its territory and we assume that the us government will oppose that.
I mostly see that too, but I do want to point out some genuine patriotism within China.
In the US, it seems like any conversation about China is derailed into something unrelated that the party in China does, which is confounded by the inability to separate a private sector in China from the party. Its just not a 1-to-1 mapping to our system, alongside an unwillingness to see it any other way.
In reality, people in China are just trying to live their lives, and do. They know how to navigate the rules of their system and the day to day is fine.
In the US, it seems like any conversation about China is derailed into something unrelated that the party in China does, which is confounded by the inability to separate a private sector in China from the party. Its just not a 1-to-1 mapping to our system, alongside an unwillingness to see it any other way.
In reality, people in China are just trying to live their lives, and do. They know how to navigate the rules of their system and the day to day is fine.
> They know how to navigate the rules of their system and the day to day is fine.
You could make the same argument of Soviet Russia and other despotic regimes (like today’s Russia). Does it provide any special insight? The majority of people are not involved in the power system of governments.
Having government be intimately intertwined the way China does makes the economy makes the playing field unfair. China basically locked out a lot of US companies from the market and forced a tech and knowledge transfer instead and the US leaders let that happen. The US is starting to finally try to adjust its markets to reflect that and it’s sticking with free markets for now (módulo stuff like TikTok).
Another issue for China domestically is that the entertaining or economy and politics means that there’s an even strong danger of corruption than even the US with all its problems.
You could make the same argument of Soviet Russia and other despotic regimes (like today’s Russia). Does it provide any special insight? The majority of people are not involved in the power system of governments.
Having government be intimately intertwined the way China does makes the economy makes the playing field unfair. China basically locked out a lot of US companies from the market and forced a tech and knowledge transfer instead and the US leaders let that happen. The US is starting to finally try to adjust its markets to reflect that and it’s sticking with free markets for now (módulo stuff like TikTok).
Another issue for China domestically is that the entertaining or economy and politics means that there’s an even strong danger of corruption than even the US with all its problems.
Of course, if you analyze things logically you'll conclude that the dispute is merely economic, because the US was buying everything from China until a few months ago.
Yes, when you don't have access to independent reporting, you miss China building hundreds of landing and invasion vessels, ramming and threatening neighbors over absurd territorial claims, and you could ignorantly conclude there must be "economic reasons" behind the US and China fighting. I'm here to tell you that the economic conflict is merely an immediate and necessary consequence from the realization that when war happens, the US is too reliant on Chinese manufacturing - and so it is being aggressively decoupled.
Is China threatening any American owned territory? If not, why do you conclude that the US needs to go to war?
Because the US is the primary enforcer of the world order that mandates, broadly, that everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping, and that we don't steal each other's land any more.
When the US gives up on that role, the world is going to change drastically, and not for the better.
When the US gives up on that role, the world is going to change drastically, and not for the better.
> the US is the primary enforcer of the world order
Nobody gave the US this legal power. It has no credibility there.
> everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping
Right now this is false around the area controlled by the Houthis.
> we don't steal each other's land any more
Israelis are stealing land with US support.
Nobody gave the US this legal power. It has no credibility there.
> everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping
Right now this is false around the area controlled by the Houthis.
> we don't steal each other's land any more
Israelis are stealing land with US support.
Sabinus(1)
>If there was ever any doubt, this action makes clear that the Chinese government will use supply chains as a weapon to advance their interests over ours.
In particular this sentence demonstrates a näive credulousness.
Kissinger would be laughing.
In particular this sentence demonstrates a näive credulousness.
Kissinger would be laughing.
I agree. Feels like panic that China violated the Rules-Based International Order™
This is great. Now everyone will get serious decoupling battery supply chain from China. Maybe companies making EVs will understand the stake.
But how are they going to compete with the huge state-supported battery makers from China?
By state-supporting our own battery makers? Or does the Chinese government have more money than we do?
We'll have to up our slave-labor game while we're at it.
I think battery manufacturing is pretty heavily automated, isn't it?
That's what the left is saying illegal immigrants are for
Will the US government sanction itself then?
If batteries can't be sourced from China, there is no competition. If they can be, tariffs to balance out the subsidies.
We urgently need more tariffs on goods made in China. The most important feature of tariffs is not the revenue but incentives they create. We need near total “friendshoring” by 2027
Tariffs are useless if you don't have investments to replace that product with local alternatives. Tariffs by themselves will not make the replacements appear (and here is the important part) with the same quality of the taxed product. Most countries that apply tariffs end up with inferior products and a monopolized internal market.
From a national security perspective, and with the recent Israeli exploding pager development, I think a move away from Chinese batteries, forced or not, is a good thing.
> Chinese companies who are now rapidly losing market share to Skydio and our Western peers
Please, show us the detailed metrics on this claim.
Please, show us the detailed metrics on this claim.
Sanction for sanction, simple as that. Western countries like to sanction the shit out of China, but they don't like it when then they do it?
Sanction aside, this action is a wake-up call for all US based companies operating in geopolitically sensitive industries that they absolutely need to diversify their supply chain away from China.
And in terms of the sanction itself, it’s definitely a reasonable response by China, given the fact that DJI is heavily sanctioned by the US government.
And in terms of the sanction itself, it’s definitely a reasonable response by China, given the fact that DJI is heavily sanctioned by the US government.
The "sanctions" on DJI are limited to US federal agencies being banned from buying DJI drones.
China's move however will be a killing blow to Skydio because China has most likely correctly calculated that US/Western anti-mining sentiments makes it impossible to manufacture batteries.
https://dronelife.com/2024/09/10/house-passes-countering-ccp...
China's move however will be a killing blow to Skydio because China has most likely correctly calculated that US/Western anti-mining sentiments makes it impossible to manufacture batteries.
https://dronelife.com/2024/09/10/house-passes-countering-ccp...
Ahhh, so that's why all the crazies have been talking about lithium. They've been activated by the agitprop.
The bigger question is what will the US do if China decides to take the same action wrt EV batteries?
On one hand, e.g. Tesla make their batteries on the US soil, in Nevada. OTOH they don't make the batteries from the US soil, with more than half of the lithium coming from China.
I'd expect a Tesla Gigamine then, somewhere near the recently discovered giant lithium deposit in Arkansas. Drones could use some of that, too.
I'd expect a Tesla Gigamine then, somewhere near the recently discovered giant lithium deposit in Arkansas. Drones could use some of that, too.
[deleted]
DJI has extremely light sanctions. I can still buy them in the stores in the US. If they were heavily sanctioned by the government, this would not be possible.
First sentence of article.
>A few weeks ago, China announced sanctions on Skydio for selling drones to Taiwan, where our only customer today is the National Fire Agency.
>A few weeks ago, China announced sanctions on Skydio for selling drones to Taiwan, where our only customer today is the National Fire Agency.
...Yeah? That is pretty much in line with how sanction works in the West.
US has sanctioned for decades companies that cooperate economically with "enemy states" (Iran/Cuba/Russia/China), I don't see how China would be different.
US has sanctioned for decades companies that cooperate economically with "enemy states" (Iran/Cuba/Russia/China), I don't see how China would be different.
Indeed, and I'm not sure that China will arrest you when you're travelling in a foreign country, for trading with Taiwan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzh...
Yeah of course, because China is sanctioning them because they are making it harder for the PROC to invade and annex another free country.
The USA invaded and annexed lots of free countries.
Invading and annexing isn't some weird thing no one usually does.
Taiwan is the product of a recent civil war.
Invading and annexing isn't some weird thing no one usually does.
Taiwan is the product of a recent civil war.
Would you have argued that the American civil war was recent in 1940?
The Chinese civil war never officially ended. There was no agreement whatsoever, and the ROC never declared itself as separate, etc. Taiwan is simply a province within the ROC, and the ROC still consists of the mainland. That's what the ROC constitution states.
preisschild(1)
These threads are always depressing. Half the commenters here would cheer the collapse of the US.
Proactively offering their customers support due to the inconvenience, solid customer service move there.