Ask HN: Moving from an IC Role to Vice President at a young age, any advice?
13 comments
I agree with other posters that this is most likely a degree of title inflation, and a nice pay-bump. Likely worth the jump.
But I'd like to add a bit of nuance into it too. Be very careful about the real job description and expectations. Being in a VP position without actual institutional support to do your job can be burnout inducing (been there, done that). Make sure to enumerate your duties and your tools. You don't want to be caught managing a metric you can't budge.
Ah, and follow the money. If you can't manage your own branches' budget (at least to some extent), then you should refuse accepting responsibility at that level.
Wonders of middle management, eh?
But I'd like to add a bit of nuance into it too. Be very careful about the real job description and expectations. Being in a VP position without actual institutional support to do your job can be burnout inducing (been there, done that). Make sure to enumerate your duties and your tools. You don't want to be caught managing a metric you can't budge.
Ah, and follow the money. If you can't manage your own branches' budget (at least to some extent), then you should refuse accepting responsibility at that level.
Wonders of middle management, eh?
Don't worry about skipping a rung - more often than not, title inflation happens when you move into the services world. It is a sales technique -- customers feel good when a VP is leading their product. There is an unbelievable number of VPs in some industries.
You would only need to worry if you were actually going to be doing VP-level work - building organizations instead of products. It sounds like you are not expected to be at that level. You just need to run a small existing org, not build out new ones. So just make sure you are able to do the actual job you are getting hired for, and enjoy the nice title.
You would only need to worry if you were actually going to be doing VP-level work - building organizations instead of products. It sounds like you are not expected to be at that level. You just need to run a small existing org, not build out new ones. So just make sure you are able to do the actual job you are getting hired for, and enjoy the nice title.
Definitely noticed the rampant title inflation in that industry, there’s two more rungs of VP-style titles before the actual company C suite at the firm I’m joining, haha.
I highly encourage some sort of leadership training. I got promoted at not the rainforest but the big cloud competitor and they sent me through some leadership training. I learned a lot. Most importantly I learned that this is a skill like any other. And that I’ve seen examples of good and bad leadership my whole life.
One thing I’d keep in mind is that an important part of leadership is being aware of people’s emotions. Part of the job is protecting your people so they can stay effective. In a lot of cases this just comes down to being compassionate and checking in often.
Not sure if that applies as much in higher levels of leadership. Maybe, maybe more so. Do please check and report back :-p
Some (most) large corporations designate VP titles to non-vp work as a means of attempting to bypass labor laws protecting overtime payments to workers. It is a mostly illegal practice but violations tend to be overlooked and the practice has become fairly widespread. IMO it speaks volumes about the (slave-like) working conditions one is likely to encounter in businesses engaging in such practices.
Which country has job title as a criteria for whether or not you are an exempt employee? In the USA, it is not:
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17a-overtime
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17a-overtime
I am not sure what point you think you are making, but you are simply confirming my post. It is illegal to fail to pay overtime as mandated by labor laws.
Yet many Fortune 500 companies will have hundreds if not thousands of employees given the title of VP. And companies that follow that practice expect those employees to work well beyond 40 hours per week yet never pay any OT. To be clear, these employees do not exercise control over any other employees. Do not perform oversight functions. They do not engage in any practice one would normally associate with executive functions. They are merely employees performing normal individual work but given the VP title, together with hundreds and thousands of others in the corporation.
Yet many Fortune 500 companies will have hundreds if not thousands of employees given the title of VP. And companies that follow that practice expect those employees to work well beyond 40 hours per week yet never pay any OT. To be clear, these employees do not exercise control over any other employees. Do not perform oversight functions. They do not engage in any practice one would normally associate with executive functions. They are merely employees performing normal individual work but given the VP title, together with hundreds and thousands of others in the corporation.
The point is that you are 100% off-track on job titles having anything to do with it. All tech workers are exempt. Focusing on a small slice of them who have a VP title is ignoring 99% of the very problem that you are getting worked up over. If you want to fight for overtime pay for salaried employees, go for it... but you are ranting down the wrong path when you act like a job title is relevant.
Again, you are 100% missing my point. I am fully aware that the job title has no legal bearing on overtime. The job title is used to mislead the employees into believing they are not entitled to OT.
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I'll echo what the others say - if you think the path is clear (but you should think twice about that, of course), then don't be intimidated. A long time ago I participated in a negotiation/scoping on a big project, and while most of the people on the other side were a VP of some sort, in the end all but one turned out to be basically senior devs and their managers.
So, first, congratulations. New role, big pay bump, exciting opportunities? Sounds rewarding.
Managing people, especially tech-minded folks, comes with its own nuances, imho. You are young, but I was running a large division at a big company by the time I was 30. So, it's not crazy.
That said, you're going to make mistakes with people. Hell, I still make mistakes, and I'm middle aged and have run a company. There are many little things to watch out for, but really, they come with experience or shop talk. Small examples might be stuff like, don't go it alone when you fire someone, always have another peer present or there are many personality types to watch out and deal with. I'm still shocked at mid-sized VPs wanting to move up but who will do drugs with their subordinates. Not something I'd ever advise and not executive behavior.
But I would strongly recommend getting with an older mentor who's adept at managing, someone who you can bounce situations and ideas off of, someone you trust with wisdom who doesn't work there. Preferably someone with tech experience would be better, given some of the workplace culture differences. And don't be afraid to read books and articles about how people tick.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. You're already thinking about what it'll take to do right by those around you. That likely puts you ahead of the game.
Managing people, especially tech-minded folks, comes with its own nuances, imho. You are young, but I was running a large division at a big company by the time I was 30. So, it's not crazy.
That said, you're going to make mistakes with people. Hell, I still make mistakes, and I'm middle aged and have run a company. There are many little things to watch out for, but really, they come with experience or shop talk. Small examples might be stuff like, don't go it alone when you fire someone, always have another peer present or there are many personality types to watch out and deal with. I'm still shocked at mid-sized VPs wanting to move up but who will do drugs with their subordinates. Not something I'd ever advise and not executive behavior.
But I would strongly recommend getting with an older mentor who's adept at managing, someone who you can bounce situations and ideas off of, someone you trust with wisdom who doesn't work there. Preferably someone with tech experience would be better, given some of the workplace culture differences. And don't be afraid to read books and articles about how people tick.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. You're already thinking about what it'll take to do right by those around you. That likely puts you ahead of the game.
Do it.
This is how good day jobs happen.
And this is just a day job.
You can always get another day job.
Good luck.
This is how good day jobs happen.
And this is just a day job.
You can always get another day job.
Good luck.
However, I’m only 27. Never been in a management position before, but led and executed on some key projects in my current role and was crucial to growth of a profitable sector of the business for Rainforest. While I do believe this is a great opportunity for career growth, my lack of experience on the management side of the professional world creates some doubt that it’s a good role. It feels like I’m skipping a rung in the ladder, so to speak. I have a clear understanding of what I’d be expected to execute on, and good relationships, but would be inheriting a team of about 5 managers and reports immediately upon joining and expected to set direction, and manage this organization.
For those on HN that have been in a similar position, do you have any advice or input? Books or blogs to read? Thanks in advance!