Laptop of choice for a Programmer, Need Help
104 comments
Sounds like you really want a MacBook - you'll find a way to amortize the couple of hundred bucks extra it'll cost.
As for me, I use a 1st gen black MacBook w/Leopard, added a bigger HDD and aftermarket RAM to 2GB. I use a Logitech V470 bluetooth mouse which I carry everywhere, and I've got a couple of bluetooth apple keyboards (shorties without the num pad) - one for the office and one at home. For external monitors I've got a cheap Dell 23" widescreen in each location.
For the occasional Windows mission (usually to load updates to my N95) I was using Win XP via Parallels, but my experience with the performance of the last few releases has left me wanting and I'm currently using a trial copy of VMWare Fusion.
As for me, I use a 1st gen black MacBook w/Leopard, added a bigger HDD and aftermarket RAM to 2GB. I use a Logitech V470 bluetooth mouse which I carry everywhere, and I've got a couple of bluetooth apple keyboards (shorties without the num pad) - one for the office and one at home. For external monitors I've got a cheap Dell 23" widescreen in each location.
For the occasional Windows mission (usually to load updates to my N95) I was using Win XP via Parallels, but my experience with the performance of the last few releases has left me wanting and I'm currently using a trial copy of VMWare Fusion.
How's fusion?
VirtualBox is free / open source: http://www.virtualbox.org/
From the site: Runs on Windows, Linux, Macintosh and OpenSolaris hosts and supports a large number of guest operating systems including but not limited to Windows (NT 4.0, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista), DOS/Windows 3.x, Linux (2.4 and 2.6), Solaris and OpenSolaris, and OpenBSD.
On this site, you can find sources, binaries, documentation and other resources for VirtualBox. For up-to-date press coverage about VirtualBox: blogs.sun.com/VirtualBoxBuzz
From the site: Runs on Windows, Linux, Macintosh and OpenSolaris hosts and supports a large number of guest operating systems including but not limited to Windows (NT 4.0, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista), DOS/Windows 3.x, Linux (2.4 and 2.6), Solaris and OpenSolaris, and OpenBSD.
On this site, you can find sources, binaries, documentation and other resources for VirtualBox. For up-to-date press coverage about VirtualBox: blogs.sun.com/VirtualBoxBuzz
If you're going to use fusion, you'll probably not want to go with 1GB of RAM which is what you get with the last-gen macbook. That's another reason to consider getting the new one, or alternatively you could get a memory upgrade - but be sure to get it from a third party seller like crucial, not from Apple, to save money.
I have no trouble with Fusion, except for playing some old games, but I have 4GB RAM. I'm not sure if the 2GB you get with the new MacBook is enough.
I have no trouble with Fusion, except for playing some old games, but I have 4GB RAM. I'm not sure if the 2GB you get with the new MacBook is enough.
It feels (I haven't done any benchmarks) snappier than parallels, and is more efficient with memory. I'll buy buying a copy at the end of the trial. YMMV.
I've been happy with it. I've run a variety of operating systems on it, and haven't run into any problems. Other people's mileage may vary compared to mine.
If you want to comparison shop, Parallels and VirtualBox are also options. Others I know have been happy with both, but I haven't played much with either.
If you want to comparison shop, Parallels and VirtualBox are also options. Others I know have been happy with both, but I haven't played much with either.
VMWare fusion is great. I received a copy from a recruiter, which came in handy when I took a course that required Quartus (Windows or Linux). I had no issue interfacing with the CPLDs we were using (I used XP).
This may not be popular, but, I use HP laptops almost exclusively, I'm a Python and PHP mostly programmer (I have been learning Java for about a year), and I have three HP laptops. A dv2300 pavilion, an HDX 16, and an older one, can't remember series, that still works. They all dual boot windows and linux (sorry, no OSX, just doesn't appeal to me). As long as you can easily add ram and HDD's (one of the reasons apple doesn't appeal to me), almost any mainstream laptop will suit your needs
I've used HPs, they feel like they're made of the plastic they make trash cans out of. Keyboards are just as bad. They make me want to cry because I know what kind of hardware HP is capable of making.
actually the new HP line is really really popular (HP has surpassed dell as the #1 PC maker) -- and the quality isn't bad at all. you can get the latest nvidia geforce 9800go with a 17 inch screen, dvd burner. if you get the really popular models, hackintosh is a snap (there's one hackintosh thing that makes it super easy, I dont remember if its iatkos or something else...) -- and linux is also.
keep in mind that on ANY computer, you can install windows and dual boot ubuntu with the WUBI installer, which is a REAL linux installation that uses your windows partition to run (so it doesnt use the extention filesystem). that solves the "hassle free linux" problem.
I personally have been using a Dell Precision M70 Workstation with a Quadro 1400go gfx (1920x1200 res) for the past 3 and a half years, which has been awesome. Like you, my system got old, and I customized a cyberpower laptop for 1 grand. I got geforce 8600gt (yes last gen I know but that was months ago), core 2 duo (the fastest I could afford at the time), minimum ram (I bought another 4gb later to install), dvd burner, and all that jazz.
Love it.
keep in mind that on ANY computer, you can install windows and dual boot ubuntu with the WUBI installer, which is a REAL linux installation that uses your windows partition to run (so it doesnt use the extention filesystem). that solves the "hassle free linux" problem.
I personally have been using a Dell Precision M70 Workstation with a Quadro 1400go gfx (1920x1200 res) for the past 3 and a half years, which has been awesome. Like you, my system got old, and I customized a cyberpower laptop for 1 grand. I got geforce 8600gt (yes last gen I know but that was months ago), core 2 duo (the fastest I could afford at the time), minimum ram (I bought another 4gb later to install), dvd burner, and all that jazz.
Love it.
actually the new HP line is really really popular (HP has surpassed dell as the #1 PC maker) -- and the quality isn't bad at all. you can get the latest nvidia geforce 9800go with a 17 inch screen, dvd burner. if you get the really popular models, hackintosh is a snap (there's one hackintosh thing that makes it super easy, I dont remember if its iatkos or something else...) -- and linux is also.
My work machine is a nx9420, with 17" screen and full size keyboard. I like it. We've had some problems around the office with lesser models, but several engineers have the nx9420, and I've not heard any complaints or problems.
My work machine is a nx9420, with 17" screen and full size keyboard. I like it. We've had some problems around the office with lesser models, but several engineers have the nx9420, and I've not heard any complaints or problems.
I've been using Linux for a long time. What exactly is the hassle with repartitioning a machine or resizing an NTFS partition?
The partitions were never my problem.
Here are my problems:
Fucking sound will break when I update my software as Ubuntu asks me to do.
I'll fix this, install compiz, then X.org will break. Uninstall compiz, get X back, but on the wrong resolution.
Fix the xorg.conf, get my resolution back. Now my 3d Acceleration isn't working.
Install propietary drivers, fix xorg.conf AGAIN. Fix my resolution AGAIN.
Now I'm back in my desktop, and I haven't installed Java, flash, mono (UGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH), or much of anything else.
Wubi slows it down too.
There is no single laptop model that I know of that is 100% hackintosh compatible other than the MSI Wind, and I'm not looking to purchase a toy.
The partitions were never my problem.
Here are my problems:
Fucking sound will break when I update my software as Ubuntu asks me to do.
I'll fix this, install compiz, then X.org will break. Uninstall compiz, get X back, but on the wrong resolution.
Fix the xorg.conf, get my resolution back. Now my 3d Acceleration isn't working.
Install propietary drivers, fix xorg.conf AGAIN. Fix my resolution AGAIN.
Now I'm back in my desktop, and I haven't installed Java, flash, mono (UGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH), or much of anything else.
Wubi slows it down too.
There is no single laptop model that I know of that is 100% hackintosh compatible other than the MSI Wind, and I'm not looking to purchase a toy.
I don't know, when you said you had linux problems I assumed you were new to it and that installation might be a problem. Sorry I assumed wrong...
If you're asking for anything 100% "hackintosh compatible" I don't know what to tell you. By 100% you mean pop DVD, install and go, no? Well, that's asking for a bit much. I have friends who have it running on dell and HP laptops all around. All took plenty of screwing around. And same goes for linux. If you can't deal with driver issues, you probably shouldn't be using linux...though you say you've used it for a long time. Are you just fed up now?
May I add that Wubi eliminates all those problems, and the slowdown is minimal. It really is, I used a wubi installation for quite a long time.
There is another option: install ubuntu with wubi, and then use LVPM.
here: http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/12/06/graduate-from-a-wubi-in...
It even says "Purely performance wise you won’t see much difference when you move from a wubi install to a dedicated install - considering that you have a fairly fast hard drive and that your windows partition is not heavily fragmented."
Also, you have been checking dealcatcher.com and slickdeals.net right? there are a lot of sites out there with awesome deals on laptops that you can get cheap (and reliable). I mean if the only game you're playing is EVE, you really don't need more than any discrete gfx card 2 or 3 generations old, counting from today, right?
If you're asking for anything 100% "hackintosh compatible" I don't know what to tell you. By 100% you mean pop DVD, install and go, no? Well, that's asking for a bit much. I have friends who have it running on dell and HP laptops all around. All took plenty of screwing around. And same goes for linux. If you can't deal with driver issues, you probably shouldn't be using linux...though you say you've used it for a long time. Are you just fed up now?
May I add that Wubi eliminates all those problems, and the slowdown is minimal. It really is, I used a wubi installation for quite a long time.
There is another option: install ubuntu with wubi, and then use LVPM.
here: http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/12/06/graduate-from-a-wubi-in...
It even says "Purely performance wise you won’t see much difference when you move from a wubi install to a dedicated install - considering that you have a fairly fast hard drive and that your windows partition is not heavily fragmented."
Also, you have been checking dealcatcher.com and slickdeals.net right? there are a lot of sites out there with awesome deals on laptops that you can get cheap (and reliable). I mean if the only game you're playing is EVE, you really don't need more than any discrete gfx card 2 or 3 generations old, counting from today, right?
Capable of handling driver issues, I'm just losing my patience with how it seems to waste gobs of my time.
You're correct on the gfx chip.
I've been having stability issues on my desktop that prevent me of late from using anything other than...get this...Windows XP. Everything else freezes in the install. I'd forgotten about wubi. I'll get my unix fix that way.
Make no mistake, I'm not comfortable with the control Apple exerts over the hardware and software.
EDIT: Btw, Windows 7 is very nice if you use windows on a regular basis. Very fast on my 14" Dell 1.4 GHz Celeron 1GB Radeon 9000.
You're correct on the gfx chip.
I've been having stability issues on my desktop that prevent me of late from using anything other than...get this...Windows XP. Everything else freezes in the install. I'd forgotten about wubi. I'll get my unix fix that way.
Make no mistake, I'm not comfortable with the control Apple exerts over the hardware and software.
EDIT: Btw, Windows 7 is very nice if you use windows on a regular basis. Very fast on my 14" Dell 1.4 GHz Celeron 1GB Radeon 9000.
Ughh... Tough times... Seems like right now there aren't any usable notebooks on the market. I have two of the "dream" machines you have mentioned: Thinkpad T61 and prev. generation Macbook Pro. Both are junk: Lenovo uses one of those el-cheapo dim and terrible colored screens and MBP also uses a 6-bit LCD albeit with LED backlight. My MBP also runs OSX, which blows ass compared to superior Ubuntu/Gnome on a Thinkpad. Please don't moan: I've learned to be VERY productive in Gnome+Compiz and while I like Macs, I highly recommend you guys check those out.
Back to the hardware: I keep jumping between the two. I wish I could just run Ubuntu on a Mac, but I absolutely need Adobe software for work: our designers as well as business people use Fireworks and Photoshop all the time, so I gotta be able to read and modify those files, so I'm trying to bear with OSX/Finder... Ughh.
I am also a photography nut and the situation with laptop LCDs is grim right now: the total degradation compared to what we've had 2-3 years ago. I don't know a single laptop manufacturer who offers 16.7 million colors on a laptop LCD... So if you pay any attention to LCD quality, I don't think you'll be happy with anything.
But it's either Thinkpads or Macs, as always. There aren't anything else out there. DELL makes the nice Latitude series, but as always, they couldn't resist the urge of saving a few dollars and opted for the cheapest touchpad possible, rendering the machine useless: that ALPS junk just doesn't work.
Back to the hardware: I keep jumping between the two. I wish I could just run Ubuntu on a Mac, but I absolutely need Adobe software for work: our designers as well as business people use Fireworks and Photoshop all the time, so I gotta be able to read and modify those files, so I'm trying to bear with OSX/Finder... Ughh.
I am also a photography nut and the situation with laptop LCDs is grim right now: the total degradation compared to what we've had 2-3 years ago. I don't know a single laptop manufacturer who offers 16.7 million colors on a laptop LCD... So if you pay any attention to LCD quality, I don't think you'll be happy with anything.
But it's either Thinkpads or Macs, as always. There aren't anything else out there. DELL makes the nice Latitude series, but as always, they couldn't resist the urge of saving a few dollars and opted for the cheapest touchpad possible, rendering the machine useless: that ALPS junk just doesn't work.
Have you tried Dell's Precision Mobile Workstation series? They're brilliant. Plus goldcare support = god. they send technicians to your house to fix anything. burnt motherboards, shattered screens, etc.
Then again I got this laptop on a research grant...
Then again I got this laptop on a research grant...
Hrm. Well, MBP / T61p might be junk but I'm not swimming in options.
I just got a Dell XPS 1530 - bigger than you probably want, but for me it's outstanding. 1920x1200 LCD, HDMI out, 4GB RAM, Core2 Duo, 320GB haard drive - for under $1500. A huge seling point for me was that it can be ordered with Ubuntu so it's fully linux compatable.
As soon as a windows laptop cracks 1k, it's macbook buying time I'm afraid.
Hey hey hey, you spend $2k on a REALLY nice PC, and install Ubuntu via wubi for ZERO driver problems (granted you need to install windows beforehand but that doesn't look troublesome since you play eve online).
Who said macbook was the only way to go over 1k? ever read zed shaw's horror story? yeah.
Who said macbook was the only way to go over 1k? ever read zed shaw's horror story? yeah.
Another question, gherlein's suggestion actually sounded really good. What makes over $1000 automatically a macbook? Is there something about over $1000 PCs that you can't stand? Does the fact that the XPS can come with preinstalled linux (meaning minimal driver issues as dell probably extensively tested it to work) not help? 1920 res (meaning good gfx), dvd burner, 4gb ram, great processor, solid support (I will vouch for dell support believe it or not as almost a 4 year dell user), and everything else you've asked for....
Or are you just hell-bent on getting a mac and none of this discussion really matters?
Or are you just hell-bent on getting a mac and none of this discussion really matters?
[deleted]
I want a unix-based OS that isn't going to waste gobs of my time on hardware/software-package related issues. Mac OS X is the only one that fits the bill.
Failing that, it makes me nauseous thinking of paying over 1k for hardware that is as poorly constructed and ugly as most PC laptops tend to be.
Exception: Sony VAIOs. Pretty little thangs, and the predominance of intel hardware makes me think they're Linux compatible. If I can configure a sharp looking VAIO with dedicated graphics for under 1k, she's mine.
Failing that, it makes me nauseous thinking of paying over 1k for hardware that is as poorly constructed and ugly as most PC laptops tend to be.
Exception: Sony VAIOs. Pretty little thangs, and the predominance of intel hardware makes me think they're Linux compatible. If I can configure a sharp looking VAIO with dedicated graphics for under 1k, she's mine.
Hm, you probably could have simplified your original post to:
"I want a mac, but anyone have suggestions for decent PCs under 1k with DVD burners?"
and then when your karma hit 150, you could start a poll for "how many people use macs" like you asked --
...instead of a tirade about electrocuting batteries and whatever the heck else you talked about cause mix a mac survey with computer suggestions and you're looking for a mess.
And seriously, VAIOs? You might as well go for a Mac. I mean, all that tells me is that you care about how your lappy looks and not about what it does. Get a Sager for god's sake. you can configure one for about 1k and it will run better and last longer than any silly overpriced vaio out there. I mean if you're looking for 1k computers, you should chuck the word vaio out the window.
"I want a mac, but anyone have suggestions for decent PCs under 1k with DVD burners?"
and then when your karma hit 150, you could start a poll for "how many people use macs" like you asked --
...instead of a tirade about electrocuting batteries and whatever the heck else you talked about cause mix a mac survey with computer suggestions and you're looking for a mess.
And seriously, VAIOs? You might as well go for a Mac. I mean, all that tells me is that you care about how your lappy looks and not about what it does. Get a Sager for god's sake. you can configure one for about 1k and it will run better and last longer than any silly overpriced vaio out there. I mean if you're looking for 1k computers, you should chuck the word vaio out the window.
just wanted to say that Macbooks DO come with a DVD burner (SuperDrive) even the last gen ones.
For extra money (last gen ones).
The $949 model I mentioned that is refurb has a DVD-Burner.
The $949 model I mentioned that is refurb has a DVD-Burner.
You can get a new last-gen Macbook for $949 with a DVD burner for with a student discount.
Not a student? They don't check if you order it online, but they do at the Apple store (I bought mine this summer before receiving my student id).
Or you could get a new this-gen MB for $1249 with a student discount. That's what I would do if I were buying a computer now.
Not a student? They don't check if you order it online, but they do at the Apple store (I bought mine this summer before receiving my student id).
Or you could get a new this-gen MB for $1249 with a student discount. That's what I would do if I were buying a computer now.
Second hand (or refurbished), last gen 15" Macbook Pro. I use one of these for development, no complaints.
Yes. This (Penryn MacBook Pro) is absolutely the best developer computer available.
Amazon had the 2.5 GHz model (the one Apple was selling for $2500 a few months ago) for $1500, but it looks like that deal ended with December. Maybe it will come back.
You can still get the 2.4 GHz model (orig $2000) for $1400 from MacMall and maybe other places.
Amazon had the 2.5 GHz model (the one Apple was selling for $2500 a few months ago) for $1500, but it looks like that deal ended with December. Maybe it will come back.
You can still get the 2.4 GHz model (orig $2000) for $1400 from MacMall and maybe other places.
Agreed. Find a mac addict on craigslist who bought one right before the new ones came out. Spend 50 bucks at crucial to max out the memory to 4GB. Mmmm. Tasty memory.
Not a bad idea at all, finding one that is affordable is critical. Also, I don't even own a mac other than my powermac G4 and I still check (macrumors is it?) that one site that has a guesstimate on when new models are due to come out. That way if I buy a new one, I don't get screwed.
How much did you pay, and where did you get it from? What do you develop in/on?
I bought mine new a while back (~$3000 AUD) from Apple. Just looking at eBay, they seem to go for a touch over $1000 USD at the moment. I figure they're a bit of a bargain at the moment since they're perfectly capable and have just been replaced by the shiny new model. I mainly develop Ruby Rails/Merb apps with TextMate.
Egads, I love textmate. Another reason I want a mac. That and darkroom and a multitude of other apps. :|
I'll poke around ebay and see if I find anything worthwhile.
I'll poke around ebay and see if I find anything worthwhile.
Free Darkroom, plus cross-platform.
http://www.codealchemists.com/jdarkroom/
15.4" Lenovo Thinkpad with the WUXGA+ display really really provides valuable screen real estate for code
Well over the mac price point. Nice machines, but not as well built as they used to be.
Well over the macbook (not mbpro) price point - and for a reason.
I don't think Macbook could ever compare to Thinkpad T61/T500 for some serious development. Ever.
Macbook Pro is another story, with another price tag too :)
I don't think Macbook could ever compare to Thinkpad T61/T500 for some serious development. Ever.
Macbook Pro is another story, with another price tag too :)
FBSD compatibility is a plus and a half.
Well, you want a cheap(er) Mac laptop, 13-14"...sounds like you've already made up your mind.
I've been a long time Linux user and recently got a macbook, partly because it just works and I don't have to read 1001 web forums trying to decide whether the specific NVidia chipset is compatible with the latest Xorg driver.
So it's really easy to set up and easy to use, once you get used to the oddities (command Q...). It's basically a BSD, so you get Bash and Python and gcc and Vim etc.
However, I'm starting to discover while it is Unix, it's got its problems. On Ubuntu, everything is just an apt-get away. I can check out bug reports on launchpad and get unstable fixes, and not have to wait for an update from the Apple gods. On OSX, you need to use fink or darwinports, which isn't integrated with the OS (anyone said Apple gcc vs fink gcc?). Apple just likes doing things its own way, like rewriting config files for you (even though you edited them manually), having obscure config options (.MacOSX/environment.plist???).
So as much as I enjoy the interface, I think my next machine will be some sort of Thinkpad + Ubuntu, for all that brown themed ugliness :)
(oh, and I swear the white macbook scratches and scuffs the second you take it out of the box, get a black one or a pro.)
So it's really easy to set up and easy to use, once you get used to the oddities (command Q...). It's basically a BSD, so you get Bash and Python and gcc and Vim etc.
However, I'm starting to discover while it is Unix, it's got its problems. On Ubuntu, everything is just an apt-get away. I can check out bug reports on launchpad and get unstable fixes, and not have to wait for an update from the Apple gods. On OSX, you need to use fink or darwinports, which isn't integrated with the OS (anyone said Apple gcc vs fink gcc?). Apple just likes doing things its own way, like rewriting config files for you (even though you edited them manually), having obscure config options (.MacOSX/environment.plist???).
So as much as I enjoy the interface, I think my next machine will be some sort of Thinkpad + Ubuntu, for all that brown themed ugliness :)
(oh, and I swear the white macbook scratches and scuffs the second you take it out of the box, get a black one or a pro.)
I've been poking around a cheap Thinkpad on Craigslist.
I didn't know the situation was that hairy with the ports on mac os x. From the way others spoke of macports and fink, it had that same apple 'just works' going on.
I didn't know the situation was that hairy with the ports on mac os x. From the way others spoke of macports and fink, it had that same apple 'just works' going on.
Fink/ports work enough, but like I said it doesn't integrate with the OS like on Debian/Ubuntu. I've already mentioned the issue of clashing versions (gcc from Fink vs from Apple, etc.)
But OS X is nice, if only Ubuntu and Linux in general had the drivers, the overall polish, better menus (System Preferences on OS X are nice, on gnome they are a dog's breakfast) and dropped the ugly brown theme...
I think I'll stick to Mac laptops and Linux desktops and enjoy the best of both worlds :)
But OS X is nice, if only Ubuntu and Linux in general had the drivers, the overall polish, better menus (System Preferences on OS X are nice, on gnome they are a dog's breakfast) and dropped the ugly brown theme...
I think I'll stick to Mac laptops and Linux desktops and enjoy the best of both worlds :)
I'd get a XPS M1330. I dual boot Windows 7 Beta and OS X 10.5.6 with no problems. Got 4 GB of RAM, and both OS fly. I've installed Ubuntu on it as well and everything works.
Only things that don't work in OS X are Ethernet, Card Reader, and you have to manually press the Power button for 5 seconds to power down. Other than that, it's great.
Only things that don't work in OS X are Ethernet, Card Reader, and you have to manually press the Power button for 5 seconds to power down. Other than that, it's great.
Maybe I'm wrong here, but what good is a laptop to a .NET developer if it doesn't have ethernet? Do you mean the wired card doesn't work, but wi-fi still works?
He does, which is highly bothersome to me.
http://www.tuaw.com/2008/01/15/accessories-for-macbook-air-u...
Possibly compatible, who knows.
Possibly compatible, who knows.
Nah, I know for a fact that works.
Which graphics chip?
I love my MBP 17" with 1900x resolution. It allows me to pack my screen full. It sounds like it isn't in your budget, but as a developer, you might think about screen real estate.
I had a 15" but couldn't develop on it. Since I got this 17", I've used it 100% of the time, 10+ hours a day.
I had a 15" but couldn't develop on it. Since I got this 17", I've used it 100% of the time, 10+ hours a day.
"I love my MBP 17" with 1900x resolution ... I had a 15" but couldn't develop on it. "
One of the things that pushed towards the Dell 830 and away from the MBP was that I was used to the 1920x1200 rez but liked getting that on a 15" screen. (That and a preference for a clit mouse.)
Bought it with the FreeDOS option, tossed on Kubuntu, and happily hacking away.
One of the things that pushed towards the Dell 830 and away from the MBP was that I was used to the 1920x1200 rez but liked getting that on a 15" screen. (That and a preference for a clit mouse.)
Bought it with the FreeDOS option, tossed on Kubuntu, and happily hacking away.
Eh, this needs to be a portable machine, and I fully expect to have an extra monitor available to plug into if I need the real estate for coding. I've simply never needed that much space while on the go. Can't say I'd mind the space, but it's not feasible with my budget.
If the Dell Studio 15's were compatible with leopard, I'd go with that because there's a 1900x1200 resolution upgrade that is VERY reasonably priced.
If the Dell Studio 15's were compatible with leopard, I'd go with that because there's a 1900x1200 resolution upgrade that is VERY reasonably priced.
I have a backpack and I take it everywhere. Not sometimes, but every single day I hit up a coffeeshop. So it's very portable.
If you regularly plug into a bigger screen, a smaller machine might be better. If the Dell isn't compatible yet, I'm sure it will be in the future. Darn hackers!
If you regularly plug into a bigger screen, a smaller machine might be better. If the Dell isn't compatible yet, I'm sure it will be in the future. Darn hackers!
It's not that simple. There just isn't a lot of people working on the OS X x86 situation. There was one guy making tons of progress single-handedly, but he disappeared.
There just isn't much in the way of progress. The only people out there making any (somewhat) progress is the macvidia team and they're still fundamentally reliant upon Apple's willingness to support a given chip for the Mac Pro.
It's not a matter of time if no one cares.
The problem is that people either already own a mac and don't care about people who can't afford one, or they don't care about using the OS.
I love the hardware, I really really do, but I'm not dumping that kind of money into a machine. It's not feasible on my income (meager).
There just isn't much in the way of progress. The only people out there making any (somewhat) progress is the macvidia team and they're still fundamentally reliant upon Apple's willingness to support a given chip for the Mac Pro.
It's not a matter of time if no one cares.
The problem is that people either already own a mac and don't care about people who can't afford one, or they don't care about using the OS.
I love the hardware, I really really do, but I'm not dumping that kind of money into a machine. It's not feasible on my income (meager).
Definitely go with a MacBook. Seems perfect for you
Thanks for the suggestion, it's just financially painful compared to a natively compatible hackbook or other idea.
If you're a student (it doesn't sounds like you are, but...) you can get the student discount, which can be around ~$200 for most laptops that apple sells. Maybe you know a student who can actually make the purchase for you? Just a thought.
The student thing is a good idea, and no I'm not a student. I've already made a post looking for ideas on how to get back into school. :P
Actually probably not past the day you buy it, at least if you can put a dollar figure on the time you spend dealing with hackintosh-specific issues.
Thinkpad T42p 14" with ubuntu 8.10 + 24" LCD with USB hub + keyboard + wireless logitech mouse, + 2 GB RAM
Laptops are like cars - they depreciate the most in the first year or two. Go for a corporate laptop just off the refresh cycle.
- IBM build quality - fast enough as a decent backup to a desktop - runs windows in vmware for testing, .net apps - Ubuntu just works - good size, weight - Costs approximately laptop: $350 + LCD $300
Alternately I bought my daughter an MSI Wind with Suse (switched to Ubuntu) and I find myself using it quite frequently. Very light, great build quality + great screen.(Also Mac Compatibility now with the Realtek 8187SE drivers).
Laptops are like cars - they depreciate the most in the first year or two. Go for a corporate laptop just off the refresh cycle.
- IBM build quality - fast enough as a decent backup to a desktop - runs windows in vmware for testing, .net apps - Ubuntu just works - good size, weight - Costs approximately laptop: $350 + LCD $300
Alternately I bought my daughter an MSI Wind with Suse (switched to Ubuntu) and I find myself using it quite frequently. Very light, great build quality + great screen.(Also Mac Compatibility now with the Realtek 8187SE drivers).
Seriously considering a Thinkpad so that I can run BSD/Linux without hassle.
I'm using two HP/Compaq Presarios, both with Ubuntu v8.10 and Mac4Lin. I was going to buy a Mac, but considering the price differential the Compaq's are a better deal. Ubuntu upgrades also come at the right price.
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I don't want Mac OS X because of the appearance. I want it because:
My 3d acceleration will always work. My sound will always work. My resolution will display properly. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade software. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade "os" versions. There's non-trash software available for Mac OS X. (Textmate, darkroom, etc) Media will playback without complaint, hassle, or copyright-related zealotry. If I plug in a second monitor, it will just work. No config file editing, no bullshit. Just work.
I don't want Mac OS X because of the appearance. I want it because:
My 3d acceleration will always work. My sound will always work. My resolution will display properly. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade software. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade "os" versions. There's non-trash software available for Mac OS X. (Textmate, darkroom, etc) Media will playback without complaint, hassle, or copyright-related zealotry. If I plug in a second monitor, it will just work. No config file editing, no bullshit. Just work.
My 3d acceleration will always work. My sound will always work. My resolution will display properly. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade software. Shit won't break FREQUENTLY when I upgrade "os" versions. There's non-trash software available for Mac OS X. (Textmate, darkroom, etc) Media will playback without complaint, hassle, or copyright-related zealotry. If I plug in a second monitor, it will just work. No config file editing, no bullshit. Just work.
This may sound slightly crazy.... but you might want to try a PC with windows.
You're on a budget, play EVE, do some .net, and don't care about UI. You could dual boot some sort of linux (hell if you hate upgrades so much, then just install slackware and stop updating your kernel. if it aint broke don't break it) for whatever *nix shit you need to do, and the rest...all work. You want instant compatibility with about EVERYTHING. Okay man, Windoze seems to suit you well.
;) and don't forget AVG antivirus. It's a dangerous world out there!
This may sound slightly crazy.... but you might want to try a PC with windows.
You're on a budget, play EVE, do some .net, and don't care about UI. You could dual boot some sort of linux (hell if you hate upgrades so much, then just install slackware and stop updating your kernel. if it aint broke don't break it) for whatever *nix shit you need to do, and the rest...all work. You want instant compatibility with about EVERYTHING. Okay man, Windoze seems to suit you well.
;) and don't forget AVG antivirus. It's a dangerous world out there!
Well, that's my current situation, I'm using Windows right now. (Installing Windows 7 as we speak)
However, I happen to rather like GNU tools and the unix-style shell environment (bash).
Windows doesn't offer either, and it isn't conducive to contributing my time to an open source project either.
However, I happen to rather like GNU tools and the unix-style shell environment (bash).
Windows doesn't offer either, and it isn't conducive to contributing my time to an open source project either.
Question: So if you get a mac, are you going to install windows on it also?
For .NET work, yes. I have to. Might do VMWare Fusion but I'd be worried about IIS or something going pissy on me about the networking when running under a virtual machine.
To echo what a lot of people are saying: It sounds like you really want a mac, so I'd say go ahead and swallow the cost and just get it.
Personal testimonial: I own a G4 Powerbook that I bought about 5 years ago, and a MacBook Pro that I acquired about three years ago. Both work really well, and their longevity has been more than worth the price tag. My Powerbook still runs Halo flawlessly on medium settings. Any time I've had a problem with either, I've gone to an apple store and they've fixed any and all problems I've had.
Personal testimonial: I own a G4 Powerbook that I bought about 5 years ago, and a MacBook Pro that I acquired about three years ago. Both work really well, and their longevity has been more than worth the price tag. My Powerbook still runs Halo flawlessly on medium settings. Any time I've had a problem with either, I've gone to an apple store and they've fixed any and all problems I've had.
I have an ancient PowerMac G4 (500 MHz) that still works to this day. Too bad I can't get XCode to install properly. :(
Every passionate developer deserves an aluminum MacBook + an extremely big external screen with resolution at least 1920x1280.
No, don't go for the plastic refurbs, even it saves you some bucks. In the long run you'll be much much happier.
Dell 600m ... I used to live in the same dorm with a guy owning such a machine back in college. Things impressed me include:
- key caps kept falling out while typing
- hot enough to burn your hands in summer (turned out to be very useful in winter, though)
- extremely noisy fan
- battery recalled due to possibility to explode (Sony's fault, as I remember)
No, don't go for the plastic refurbs, even it saves you some bucks. In the long run you'll be much much happier.
Dell 600m ... I used to live in the same dorm with a guy owning such a machine back in college. Things impressed me include:
- key caps kept falling out while typing
- hot enough to burn your hands in summer (turned out to be very useful in winter, though)
- extremely noisy fan
- battery recalled due to possibility to explode (Sony's fault, as I remember)
I dind't read all ur long post, but the only rational choice is a mac book pro 15" do bootcamp if you want windows or need to flip over to test something. all doors are open with the macbook, why even consider anything else? you wouldnt run mac os on a HP.
look, mac is about the hardware. it's superior hardware. run whatever OS you want on top of it, the hardware is the best in the industry, there just isn't any comparison.
look, mac is about the hardware. it's superior hardware. run whatever OS you want on top of it, the hardware is the best in the industry, there just isn't any comparison.
From the comments, it seems like that is what I'm gonna do, but I'll have to get a used one. I cannot afford a new one.
This depends on how urgent it is, but if you have some time and really want to save some cash, keep checking the refurbished Apple store a couple times a day for a week or two. The listings change regularly, but the good deals can be gone within hours.
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac
you obviously want a mac, so just get a mac. you aren't going to regret it.
Sure about that? I bought two (Macbook + MBP) and I do regret. Wasted $3.5K. LCDs on regular Macbooks are as cheap and healthy as $0.99 cheeseburgers and OSX/Finder can't hold a handle to Ghone/Compiz when to comes to window/file management. Font rendering isn't in the same league as what Linux/Freetype is capable of, especially in languages other than English. And lots of interesting software requires googling to install: most are 1st class citizens on Linux and 2nd - everywhere else.
Both of my Macs developed some hardware issues in their first year, and both issues are quite widespread among other Mac users according to Apple forums.
Just pointing out that the world is bigger than it seems.
Both of my Macs developed some hardware issues in their first year, and both issues are quite widespread among other Mac users according to Apple forums.
Just pointing out that the world is bigger than it seems.
While I certainly haven't had the same experience when it comes to the hardware or installation issues, I couldn't agree more with the first part of your post. I moved over to the mac for a long time, but I find myself more at ease in Linux.
In fact, I never understood why the RoR guys insist on macs for development - I've found development much easier on linux. On the other hand, I'm also not trading in my mac any time soon - it's by far the best music recording platform out there.
In fact, I never understood why the RoR guys insist on macs for development - I've found development much easier on linux. On the other hand, I'm also not trading in my mac any time soon - it's by far the best music recording platform out there.
I'm quite fond of Apple's font rendering and font design, esp. the Monoco monospace font. The way it looks in both TextMate and VIM is astonishing to me.
No, the same font renders like a crap on Win/Linux/FreeType/Cairo/whatsoever ...
Considering I'm facing the code in the font most of the day, I'm willing to pay $100 to just have it.
No, the same font renders like a crap on Win/Linux/FreeType/Cairo/whatsoever ...
Considering I'm facing the code in the font most of the day, I'm willing to pay $100 to just have it.
Sorry, but this post is nonsense. Mac's font rending not in the same league as Linux/Freetype?? Nope, it's far above it.
I highly recommend the last gen macbooks. I have a second to last gen one and it's a great computer besides the fact that it can only address 3gb of ram. I've recently upgraded to the new unibody macbook which is an amazing machine, but a little beyond your price point of $1000
You can do 4 GB of RAM in the last gen. That's what I've got here. That said, a huge percentage of my friends that have had last gen models (including myself) have had a number of problems with the hardware, which wasn't true with the older PPC models.
The new ones are still too new to know if they'll be similarly problematic. I was disappointed with the new model not supporting firewire or more than 4 GB of RAM though, so I probably won't upgrade any time soon.
The new ones are still too new to know if they'll be similarly problematic. I was disappointed with the new model not supporting firewire or more than 4 GB of RAM though, so I probably won't upgrade any time soon.
Most are recommending that I either get a lastgen mac or the current-gen. The current-gen is quite an upgrade, and it seems that I might just sell off some stuff to make up the difference and get a current-gen. There's just too much great software on OS X for me to pass up.
Depending on timelines - don't forget that snow-leopard is coming out soon... Not sure if it's worth the extra couple of months waiting?
I can wait. If I do, I'll def. have the money for a macbook/macbook pro outright.
Wow...then just WAIT if you can, buy what you want, and don't start huge threads on news.yc that essentially become macvangelist madness.
Well, the alternate option is buy a Sager now, now that you've directed me to them. Which was the point of this. I knew there had to be a decent no-name'ish brand out there.
Seems like you really want a macbook so you should get it. I've found that academic stores usually have very good prices. My alum is currently clearing out the old MBP for ~1200.
I am impressed that you keep reviving yourself from electrocution.
Anyway, I love my XPS m1330, and I picked up the 3GB RAM/250GB HDD/dedicated graphics version for $500 just over a year ago. If you get it on sale, it's excellent value.
Anyway, I love my XPS m1330, and I picked up the 3GB RAM/250GB HDD/dedicated graphics version for $500 just over a year ago. If you get it on sale, it's excellent value.
I just explained that my Dell regularly shocks me because of the shoddy construction and you recommend another one? :(
Also: yes the M1330 is okay, and if you get it refurb/on-sale the dedicated graphics model is respectable, but bleurgh. Dell's build-quality makes me sick to my stomach.
Also: yes the M1330 is okay, and if you get it refurb/on-sale the dedicated graphics model is respectable, but bleurgh. Dell's build-quality makes me sick to my stomach.
Electrocution by definition is death from being shocked.
And yes, I recommended another Dell because why judge every Dell by your one experience? I've had plenty of dodgy Macbook experiences but I still recommend them.
And yes, I recommended another Dell because why judge every Dell by your one experience? I've had plenty of dodgy Macbook experiences but I still recommend them.
... my Dell regularly shocks me ...
Shut the fuck up. I bet you're lying your ass off. Computers are designed not to shock people. This is why I'm starting to steer towards enterprise as opposed to consumer market: making products for regular folks just isn't worth it because of little lying bitches like you.
Shut the fuck up. I bet you're lying your ass off. Computers are designed not to shock people. This is why I'm starting to steer towards enterprise as opposed to consumer market: making products for regular folks just isn't worth it because of little lying bitches like you.
Whoa there calm down he's probably just over-exaggerating some small problem. We get the point.
It's a small problem in the grand scheme of things, but the battery contacts are exposed and they do arc into me, and it is painful.
Am I suing? hahahah, fuck no. That shit is funny as hell more than anything, I don't like dozing off to a movie in bed with the laptop...shifting a leg, then getting woke the fuck up.
Am I suing? hahahah, fuck no. That shit is funny as hell more than anything, I don't like dozing off to a movie in bed with the laptop...shifting a leg, then getting woke the fuck up.
I'm not lying, the battery contacts are exposed and the circuits takes a shine to me here and there. If I had a camcorder I'd record it arcing into shit. Sometimes the shit it arcs into is me. It's an Inspiron 600m, I bought it $550, the fuck you want?
Calm down. I'm a business owner myself.
Reasons for getting a new laptop: 1. My 14" Dell 600m is falling apart, literally. Pieces of the case are falling off. I get electrocuted by the battery regularly. The screen hinges are on their last leg.
2. I need a reliable back-up machine because my desktop has some serious irreconcilable gremlims. This is particularly true because I tend to rage if I lose code when a machine goes down.
3. I just lost ~$1500 of stuff including my desktop computer monitor (amongst other things) and had to borrow a couple CRTs from some friends to get my desktop back up and running. I'd like to invest in a machine I tote with me.
Necessities: 1. DVD Burner. Non-negotiable. 2. Not 17", not a netbook.
Niceties: 1. Mac OS X. Huge bonus. This means hardware that can run mac OS X natively that isn't a netbook, or an actual macbook if there are no options. (I haven't found such a non-apple laptop that is not a netbook and can run leopard natively, do you guys know of one that isn't an MSI Wind or Dell Mini 9?)
I want the unix without the hassle. I likes my bash, but the situation with Linux and the lack of robustness for the power user/home user is getting absurd. I've been using Linux for a decade, and I'm tired of hoping it'll sort itself out.
2. Something under $1.5k, preferably under $1k. I'll take suggestions above that mark if they're sufficiently z0mg-great, but I just had a lot of stuff stolen and don't need to dump a car worth's of cash on a laptop.
3. Within the 13-14" range. 12s are too small for long-term use, 15s too big for what I use a laptop for. 13 and 14 is usually perfect. I can deal with 15 for the right laptop.
4. A graphics chip that can run a few games (Eve Online in my case) is a plus. This is particularly notable because again, if deskie goes down, it'd be nice if this could take up all functions inherent to my desktop. Not a necessity for the right laptop.
5. Illuminated keyboard. Wicked yo.
CANDIDATES SO FAR:
New Last-gen Macbook: $999 <=== this is shaping up to be a poor deal. No DVD-burner, integrated graphics, and high'ish price. However, this can be rectified with a refurb model I found from apple. $949 for 2.4GHz White model with DVD Burner and 2 GB of ram.
XPS M1330: This occurred to me because of CodingHorror, but fer godssakes, in order to get the dedicated graphics I hit the macbook price point, which at that point, I'm buying a macbook.
Dell Studios and Inspirons are out of the question. Price efficient to an extent, but too big and the reasonable-sized Inspiron (13") isn't easy to turn into an all-rounder without making it get within sniffing distance of the $949 Macbook.
Lenovo Thinkpads (T400/X300?): Wonderful machines, and I love the hardware compatibility with Linux/BSD. However, the price enters the stratosphere quickly (buying a macbook at that point, again), and the build quality isn't as good as it used to be. I have nothing but love for the trackpoint though. A trackpoint is the only interface related improvement I could make upon a macbook pro personally.
Sony VAIO Laptops: Great build quality, I like the chiclet keyboards (not just because apple uses them, I'm just fast with them). Nice machines, and the price isn't as bad as it used to be, but it's impossible to get one with something better than integrated graphics without bumping into macbook territory. The accessories are hell on earth expensive too, like Lenovo.
What do you guys use? How do you use it? How many of you are using Macs? Seems like a lot these days.
Software I use:
I do do some .NET programming, but I'd like to migrate to using more python/ruby. I don't mind dual-booting a mac in case I need to.
EDIT: Another plus to the Macs is I'd love to give iphone dev a try!
Suggestions?