The British sitcom that swept through the Balkans (2023)(blog.samizdata.co)
blog.samizdata.co
The British sitcom that swept through the Balkans (2023)
https://blog.samizdata.co/p/how-a-british-sitcom-swept-through-the-balkans
79 comments
Here is peak Bri'ish philosophy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY
First time I saw that I thought it was the cleverest joke I'd ever seen - took me a while to realise it's philosophical origin.
Your common or garden philosopher will refer to the Ship of Theseus, or Theseus paradox, and those with a foot in the '90s will call it Trigger's Broom.
Those truly tuned in to popular culture will indeed refer to The Sugarbabes, a UK Girl Group who presented a similar situation when all their original members were replaced one by one. This is the superior reference because eventually all the original members returned, elevating the situation to new levels of paradox.
Those truly tuned in to popular culture will indeed refer to The Sugarbabes, a UK Girl Group who presented a similar situation when all their original members were replaced one by one. This is the superior reference because eventually all the original members returned, elevating the situation to new levels of paradox.
The round round baby round round paradox?
Or is peak British comedy Stuart Lee satirising that scene as a quaint village folk tradition? https://youtu.be/7J1J_iHC2Qw?si=kUy3aQvZ4p2PjLG8
Or maybe both?
Or maybe both?
Peak ... or peep comedy ...
(Peep Show, I would argue is some of the best recent comedy from us)
(Peep Show, I would argue is some of the best recent comedy from us)
It’s easily one of the best comedies I’ve seen. I’ve lost count of the amount of rewatches I’ve done. Absolute gold standard.
> bri'ish
I forget the exact quote, but:
We specifically made something called “Harry Potter” and beat it to absolute death to show you we pronounce the letter ‘T’ in the majority of our accents.
I forget the exact quote, but:
We specifically made something called “Harry Potter” and beat it to absolute death to show you we pronounce the letter ‘T’ in the majority of our accents.
I always wondered why so many British shows were never broadcast in America. I think the most I ever saw growing up in the 80s and 90s was a bit of monty python, mr bean and fawlty towers on PBS, but otherwise nothing. Were the licensing fees so high that it just wasn't worth it? I suppose you could argue that the style wasn't a perfect fit for American audiences, but even then, having a large source of already produced tv shows must have been worth it to one of the tv stations?
Budgets maybe? British shows (especially from the 80s) are cheaply made and a bit grubby, especially in comparison to US shows with their comparatively enormous budgets, beautiful people etc.
>beautiful people etc.
Red Dwarf usa suffered such a fate.
Red Dwarf usa suffered such a fate.
> beautiful people
I’ve watched both the original british “Ghosts” sitcom and the still running american one. And to be honest this is the american quirk that i found the most odd.
I’ve actually like the fact they have created different characters to make more sense to be stuck in an american manor, but the main ones dont hide the beautifull actors appeal, which is weird.
Also, the american ghosts chatecters seem to have less depht, or at least their deph is rarely shown, ie, deph is there, but ignored or forgotten in most eps.
I miss the “cavern ghost” that while he had very primitive behaviours, he was actually smart, but more than that, he showed the pain, experience and how he grow detatched from partimgs and the lime due to the millenia he has been stuck, his mirror “thor” also has noce things, but doesn’t compare, or at least they dont play to them enough.
The english boy scout is a more mature and melancolic as well, and acts as a father feature to the female lead occasionally, while the american younger seems much more steriotipical.
I really like the american finance bro, it is no way similar to his british politic counterpart, and they do show his nice guy side often, I think the fact that they made them so opposite made me enjoy it more.
I guess that the difference in episode count per season might also justify why in most eps the americans are just steriotypes.
But the “beauty” of the american ghosts is just silly american obsession.
I’ve watched both the original british “Ghosts” sitcom and the still running american one. And to be honest this is the american quirk that i found the most odd.
I’ve actually like the fact they have created different characters to make more sense to be stuck in an american manor, but the main ones dont hide the beautifull actors appeal, which is weird.
Also, the american ghosts chatecters seem to have less depht, or at least their deph is rarely shown, ie, deph is there, but ignored or forgotten in most eps.
I miss the “cavern ghost” that while he had very primitive behaviours, he was actually smart, but more than that, he showed the pain, experience and how he grow detatched from partimgs and the lime due to the millenia he has been stuck, his mirror “thor” also has noce things, but doesn’t compare, or at least they dont play to them enough.
The english boy scout is a more mature and melancolic as well, and acts as a father feature to the female lead occasionally, while the american younger seems much more steriotipical.
I really like the american finance bro, it is no way similar to his british politic counterpart, and they do show his nice guy side often, I think the fact that they made them so opposite made me enjoy it more.
I guess that the difference in episode count per season might also justify why in most eps the americans are just steriotypes.
But the “beauty” of the american ghosts is just silly american obsession.
I watched one episode of Ghosts (US) and that was plenty. I watched every episode of every series of Ghosts (UK).
One of the reasons is the number of episodes in a typical UK sitcom series. Normally there are only 6 episodes which US broadcasters find difficult to schedule
The American comic hero is the Stand-Up Philosopher, wittily demonstrating his superiority with every line. The British comic hero is trying his best and failing miserably in a way that is relatable to the audience.
Consequently, the only British comedy that is popular in the US is satire, like Monty Python and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Consequently, the only British comedy that is popular in the US is satire, like Monty Python and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
There's plenty of American comedy that doesn't fit this mold (Broad City and Search Party are two examples that come to mind).
Definitely. It's rather that the plucky underdog surviving on his wits is practically absent in British comedy.
Brits don't do Bugs Bunny, only Wile E. Coyote.
Brits don't do Bugs Bunny, only Wile E. Coyote.
I think there are also plenty of counterexamples in that direction. Isn’t Edmund Blackadder a plucky underdog surviving on his wits?
Blackadder almost always fails by some measure.
He wins sometimes. Ask the Bishop of Bath and Wells.
https://youtu.be/rBhTIoIXoTI?si=7Xc-1Mg7E60l645W
https://youtu.be/rBhTIoIXoTI?si=7Xc-1Mg7E60l645W
This seems to be a rehash of Stephen Fry’s observation on the difference between the styles of humor.
You should watch 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia'.
I would push back on your generalization, the American family sitcoms are as big if not bigger than standup comedy.
It's not standup vs sitcom so much as winning vs losing.
British comedy runs on kicking its protagonists in the nuts. Ideally, they bring it upon themselves, but cosmic irony will do in a pinch.
It's practically unheard of for a British protagonist to end an episode in a better place than they started unless it's the Christmas special.
British comedy runs on kicking its protagonists in the nuts. Ideally, they bring it upon themselves, but cosmic irony will do in a pinch.
It's practically unheard of for a British protagonist to end an episode in a better place than they started unless it's the Christmas special.
I feel that everyone would benefit from a few runs of Yes (Prime) Minister.
The former PM's memoirs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9NifqJyDMI
The US broadcast syndication market is really only set up to sell shows that have more than 100 episodes. I think UFO, Space:1999, and the 1955 Robin Hood were among the few shows seen on regular non-PBS stations. The Disney Show would sometimes run UK-filmed material. (Scarecrow, Thomasina) Partly it's because Americans can't understand the words when they hear many UK dialect accents, so they tune out those shows and that tanks the ratings. Even if you give a station a free tv show they lose money if no one watches it. We do better at remaking shows like All in the Family, Sanford and Son, Skins, and Being Human.
But why?
Why do they need 100 episodes to run something?
Why do they need 100 episodes to run something?
Fools, Dad's Army, 'Allo 'Allo, Red Dwarf, Men Behaving Badly, The IT Crowd, Father Ted, The Office, Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, Bottom, The Young Ones, The Thick Of It, Alan Partridge, Some Mothers Do Have 'em, Mr Bean, Yes Minister, The Inbetweeners... British (and Irish) comedy was the best in the world for three decades.
Girls on Top, Absolutely Fabulous
Flebag, Toast, This Country, Detectorists, People Just Do Nothing, After Life.
Maybe four.
Maybe four.
I'd add Peep Show to that list of 2010s.
Even the funniest American show of the current decade, Succession, was written by an Englishman.
Even the funniest American show of the current decade, Succession, was written by an Englishman.
Peep Show started in 2003!
Now I feel old.
Now I feel old.
There's definitely some indefinable quality of Peep Show lurking in Succession.
I enjoyed this panel at the BFI with Armstrong, Bain, Mitchell and Webb, filmed around the time the Succession finale was on TV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwO1HP7ZS-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwO1HP7ZS-c
Because Jesse Armstrong co created Peep Show too
Monty Python, A Bit of Fry & Laurie, Jeeves and Wooster, League of Gentlemen, Royle Family, Phoenix Nights, Peep Show, Extras, Brass Eye, The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer, Bang Bang It’s Reeves and Mortimer, Shooting Stars, Spaced, Mighty Boosh, Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace, One Foot in the Grave, Ali G, Whose Line is it Anyway, HIGNFY, Idiot Abroad, Life’s Too Short, Fast Show, Black Books, Porridge…
We could do this forever, I’m sure there’s a load still missing!
We could do this forever, I’m sure there’s a load still missing!
I'm shocked that no one has mentioned the Mrs Merton Show though you did at least mention The Royle Family. Caroline Aherne was amazing at understated comedy.
"So, what first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?" she asked Debbie McGee.
"So, what first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?" she asked Debbie McGee.
The Royal Family was amazing. Caroline is dearly missed :(
It's notable just how many of the shows called out in this thread have links to the Cambridge Footlights. Certainly not all, but perhaps a third have cast who came through that club.
Snuff box, Mitchell and Webb Look, Toast of London, Spaced...
Slowing down, but let’s add Friday Night Dinner and Green Wing.
This Morning With Richard Not Judy, Look Around You, Absolutely*, Ghosts, Not Only... But Also.
*The sketch show, not Ab Fab. Alright, Ab Fab too.
*The sketch show, not Ab Fab. Alright, Ab Fab too.
Horrible Histories and Murder So Horrid.
The Tory Party, that was the biggest long running joke ever, I never thought that they'd be able to top the hilarious Boris Johnson but then Liz Truss came out of nowhere and PORK MARKETS'd her way into infamy!
The Tory Party, that was the biggest long running joke ever, I never thought that they'd be able to top the hilarious Boris Johnson but then Liz Truss came out of nowhere and PORK MARKETS'd her way into infamy!
I've heard that Liz Truss is upset that a lettuce is launching a rival social media site to hers
You sound like a Matt Berry fan, yet you missed Year of the Rabbit and Man to Man With Dean Learner
Snap, thanks for those tips. Am a total fan (also the music he puts out is really good).
It's crazy isn't it? American sitcoms/comedy doesn't even come close and is almost universally derivative of the British greats, despite having 5-6x the population and far bigger budgets.
I think that is comes from the fact that Americans take themselves too seriously and have a very strong and an even stronger censorship model than the British (thanks to well-funded religious organisations who make fun illegal).
I think that is comes from the fact that Americans take themselves too seriously and have a very strong and an even stronger censorship model than the British (thanks to well-funded religious organisations who make fun illegal).
(British OP)
I agree that British sitcoms (not comedy generally) were superior for a couple of decades, but think we need to give modern American comedy much more credit; Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Larry Sanders, various animation series, etc, etc have established them back at the top. I can't see the UK as that competitive these days.
That's not considering American standup, movies etc which leave us in the dust.
I agree that British sitcoms (not comedy generally) were superior for a couple of decades, but think we need to give modern American comedy much more credit; Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Larry Sanders, various animation series, etc, etc have established them back at the top. I can't see the UK as that competitive these days.
That's not considering American standup, movies etc which leave us in the dust.
Oh there are certainly some excellent American comedy shows..
Seinfeld, Curb, Arrested Development, Modern Family, The Office (US), South Park, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock, Frasier, Fresh Prince, Friends, How I Met Your Month, Futurama, Simpsons (OG) and then there's not a lot more on the bench unless you include the lesser remakes of British shows.
A lot of them aren't funny or aren't satire.. just look at the Shameless remake - they turned that into a character drama when it was a sitcom.
America has more of a stand-up culture I feel.
I wonder if it's because the news in America is pretty much fiction that they basically don't have political satire as a genre outside of the topical news shows (Daily Show / John Oliver) which are honestly more like real news shows than comedy at this point.
Seinfeld, Curb, Arrested Development, Modern Family, The Office (US), South Park, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock, Frasier, Fresh Prince, Friends, How I Met Your Month, Futurama, Simpsons (OG) and then there's not a lot more on the bench unless you include the lesser remakes of British shows.
A lot of them aren't funny or aren't satire.. just look at the Shameless remake - they turned that into a character drama when it was a sitcom.
America has more of a stand-up culture I feel.
I wonder if it's because the news in America is pretty much fiction that they basically don't have political satire as a genre outside of the topical news shows (Daily Show / John Oliver) which are honestly more like real news shows than comedy at this point.
What We Do in the Shadows, except it's NZ really.
Some American comedy is pretty good especially the cartoons like Simpsons and South Park.
>Alan Partridge
Let's not forget that the Alan Partridge character was borne on Chris Morris' absolutely genius radio show "On The Hour", and made it onto tv on Morris' televised successor "The Day Today".
Which reminds me of the actual high water mark of British comedy, which was Chris Morris' third and final series "Brass Eye". He rustled too many feathers with that one.
It's a damn shame that those shows have been wiped from YouTube. For my money, Chris Morris is the most unappreciated creator of the 90s/00s, limey or not.
Let's not forget that the Alan Partridge character was borne on Chris Morris' absolutely genius radio show "On The Hour", and made it onto tv on Morris' televised successor "The Day Today".
Which reminds me of the actual high water mark of British comedy, which was Chris Morris' third and final series "Brass Eye". He rustled too many feathers with that one.
It's a damn shame that those shows have been wiped from YouTube. For my money, Chris Morris is the most unappreciated creator of the 90s/00s, limey or not.
Don't forget "Jam" and "Nathan Barley"
That Brass Eye they they had Phil Collins talking "nonce sense"... brilliance.
Chris Morris and Armando Iannucci are national treasures.
Chris Morris and Armando Iannucci are national treasures.
Yes Minister is timeless. I still watch it on YouTube occasionally
You can't forget Peep Show. One of the longest-running British comedies, with 54 episodes.
Yep. In Croatia it has a cult following. Similar to obscure Italian comic “Alan Ford”, and Hungarian-Israeli writer Ephraim Kishon.
Anyone still listen to Roddy Radalj and Boris Sujdovic there? ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZCuCg-UM-U )
I expected this to be about Allo Allo.
I heard this was oddly popular in France and Germany. Only surprising because I wasn't sure the language inversion, self-deprecation and cliché would translate well.
I was expecting it to be Keeping Up Appearances, which is, bizarrely, the BBC's best-selling export show, and which is particularly popular in parts of Eastern Europe (the show came out just as the iron curtain was falling, so that must have been, ah, a confusing intro to the West...)
Wasnt an early 90s show called "Tropical heat" absurdly popular in the Balkans?
All I remember is that it had a pony-tailed detective called Nick Slaughter, who was solving cases with a red haired woman called Sylvia. The show was very 90s...
How about The X-files? The show was popular everywhere, although it had very un-even writing. Could have a 10/10 episode followed by a 1/10 episode.
All I remember is that it had a pony-tailed detective called Nick Slaughter, who was solving cases with a red haired woman called Sylvia. The show was very 90s...
How about The X-files? The show was popular everywhere, although it had very un-even writing. Could have a 10/10 episode followed by a 1/10 episode.
The Tropical Heat was indeed so popular that the Canadian actor, Rob Stewart, that played the main character visited Serbia back in 2009, talked to people, was signing autographs, took pictures with fans, etc. Since then he follows the country and has recently supported the ongoing students protests against the autocratic regime.
As someone from Bosnia this is 100% true.
There is something very similar to 80s Britain and Eastern Europe. It's why a lot of us who grew up (or had formative years in that decade) have a kinship with people from there.
There actually is a “The Nag’s Head” in the Balkans - it’s in Montenegro
These always came with the Thames ident at ${HOME_COUNTRY}, not sure why: https://youtu.be/ikH9OLnU3ao
> Fools was not only popular, it was
> well-liked. And I mean really well-liked.
Maybe outside London, but it wasn't well-liked in much of the capital. OF&H was seen as mocking and stereotyping the Cockney trader, whereas Minder ( which inspired it ) paid much more respect.
The difference between laughing at and laughing with.
Maybe outside London, but it wasn't well-liked in much of the capital. OF&H was seen as mocking and stereotyping the Cockney trader, whereas Minder ( which inspired it ) paid much more respect.
The difference between laughing at and laughing with.
From what I recall from my backpacking days near 20 years ago, Mr Bean used to be hugely popular in places like Thailand.
I think it was so popular in the Balkans because A) it was hilarious, B) people could actually watch it (on state TV, with subtitles). B is as important as A. Seinfeld would probably become very popular too, but no one could see it in the Balkans at the time.
In Czechoslovakia in 80s and 90s the most popular British TV series was Dempsey and Makepeace
I recall hearing (back in the day) that The Benny Hill Show was immensely popular in Germany even after its popularity had declined in the UK.
This is because it served as an accidental documentary and/or field guide for many micro entrepreneurs trying to break out during the autumn years of communist Yugoslavia.
The feeling lingers up to present - many still associate the word "entrepreneur" with at least slightly shady dealings.
If you work in tech in the valley, imagine how easily you could relate to Sillicon Valley (the show). It's the same for Only Fools and Horses for the 90s-00s Balkans.
The feeling lingers up to present - many still associate the word "entrepreneur" with at least slightly shady dealings.
If you work in tech in the valley, imagine how easily you could relate to Sillicon Valley (the show). It's the same for Only Fools and Horses for the 90s-00s Balkans.
Saved you a click: It's "Only Fools and Horses".
https://youtu.be/B74_ZoniuPE