RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets(theconversation.com)
theconversation.com
RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets
https://theconversation.com/rfk-jr-said-many-autistic-people-will-never-write-a-poem-even-though-theres-a-rich-history-of-neurodivergent-poets-and-writers-255367
35 comments
The quote is:
"And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features."
Then pbs fact-checking is questioning the "twenty-five percent".
But he was talking about severe autism, and yet this seems to be morphing somehow into "RFK Jr says George Bernard Shaw didn't exist".
"And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features."
Then pbs fact-checking is questioning the "twenty-five percent".
But he was talking about severe autism, and yet this seems to be morphing somehow into "RFK Jr says George Bernard Shaw didn't exist".
Thank you. Read the whole quote. He's just listing everyday things most people take for granted. Pointing out that these people won't be able to do them. Stupid to zero in on "write a poem". BTW, George Bernard Shaw did not have level 3 autism.
> Most cases now are severe.
Wasn’t this always the case?
Wasn’t this always the case?
I don't even know what it means, 25% isn't "most".
I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, and the rise in autism diagnoses is almost entirely people who overall function well in society and wouldn't have been diagnosed in the past.
So to me it would be very surprising if the ratio wasn't shifting away from serious cases of autism.
If that wasn't the case, and cases of actally disabling autism were on the rise, I'd think actual scientists would be trying to find the cause, yet all we ever hear from is conspiracy idiots trying to blame anything from vaccines to "the Jews" for autism.
So to me it would be very surprising if the ratio wasn't shifting away from serious cases of autism.
If that wasn't the case, and cases of actally disabling autism were on the rise, I'd think actual scientists would be trying to find the cause, yet all we ever hear from is conspiracy idiots trying to blame anything from vaccines to "the Jews" for autism.
That’s what I meant - the early autism diagnosis were exclusively “severe”
Only as more symptoms were discovered did the milder forms get recognized
Only as more symptoms were discovered did the milder forms get recognized
A rich kid heroin addict who didnt OD and failed upward is the last person we should be discussing seriously.
Unfortunately when they're in such a position of power, it's difficult not to discuss, seriously or not.
You’re right. We have no choice. But it is hard for me to be serious and objective. It is like having to disprove flat earthers.
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RFK never said or implied that all people with autism are non-functional in important areas. It's true that a significant number are, and it's really strange and perhaps cruel to see people trying to erase that. And it doesn't make it less of an issue to address even if some of those people write poetry.
A few months ago, there was an op-ed in the NY Times that said RFK was wrong to say x% of people are diabetics. But RFK mentionned explicitly x% are "diabetics and pre-diabetics" people. While I can't verify if the number is correct, it was obvious the NY Times was misquoting RFK.
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I feel like there is a group of people that *deeply* want the autism rates to continue at the rate they are at due to some strange ideation. It's hard to describe what I mean, but the closest thing I can think of is a social contagion or a society wide Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?
In some circles, there is social capital to being part of some marginalized identity. The autism spectrum is so wide that it's pretty easy for many highly functional people to slot themselves onto it somehow. Then many of these people make this a core part of their identity and feel a need to "advocate" for other autistic people and autism in general. Once your identity is wrapped up in something, this isn't so different than advocating for gay rights or against racism or something. Of course advocating for what is a debilitating disease for many makes no sense and can actually be cruel.
No.
We don't have a cure for autism.
We don't have a prevention for autism.
We don't have a clear cause for autism beyond recognizing that genetics play a role.
We don't even have a clear picture of the scope; one reason rates appear to be increasing is simply that we've gotten better at recognizing symptoms in previously ignored populations. But... We are probably still ignoring symptoms in some significant populations.
It is completely understandable that, as we learn more and the scope of the problem becomes more apparent, folks are alarmed and clamoring for politicians to Do Something.
...it is less apparent that there is anything productive to be done, beyond continued efforts to better understand the situation.
We (as a society) and Kennedy in particular (within his own family), have ample experience with the harms wrought by efforts to Do Something when no effective solution exists.
We don't have a cure for autism.
We don't have a prevention for autism.
We don't have a clear cause for autism beyond recognizing that genetics play a role.
We don't even have a clear picture of the scope; one reason rates appear to be increasing is simply that we've gotten better at recognizing symptoms in previously ignored populations. But... We are probably still ignoring symptoms in some significant populations.
It is completely understandable that, as we learn more and the scope of the problem becomes more apparent, folks are alarmed and clamoring for politicians to Do Something.
...it is less apparent that there is anything productive to be done, beyond continued efforts to better understand the situation.
We (as a society) and Kennedy in particular (within his own family), have ample experience with the harms wrought by efforts to Do Something when no effective solution exists.
This is what I'm talking about... Not knowing how to fix the problem should not exclude attempts to fix the problem. The logic is strange to me.
That doesn't make any sense. The percentage of people with severe autism barely grew, and is loosely correlated to the mother age.
The diagnosis of autism grow, but mostly because a lot more people are diagnosed with autism. I don't like that sentence, but modern autism is more of a social construct than what autism used to be.
'on the spectrum' is probably to me a big lie. I've worked (as a counsellor) with genuine autistic people, non-communicative or not, and frankly if you've learned to mask and to lie on your own, with intent (I did) or naturally (most people do), you shouldn't be considered autistic. Or at least you shouldn't hide behind your diagnostic.
The diagnosis of autism grow, but mostly because a lot more people are diagnosed with autism. I don't like that sentence, but modern autism is more of a social construct than what autism used to be.
'on the spectrum' is probably to me a big lie. I've worked (as a counsellor) with genuine autistic people, non-communicative or not, and frankly if you've learned to mask and to lie on your own, with intent (I did) or naturally (most people do), you shouldn't be considered autistic. Or at least you shouldn't hide behind your diagnostic.
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The infamous speech fragment is really close to the likes of Nazi propaganda. An example was giving children homework to calculate how much a disabled person costs society. THAT is extremely cruel, and so was RFK's speech, because there definitely was this undertone present.
Sure, you can edit or misquote many speeches to make them sound like Nazi propaganda, or simply assert they are similar to propaganda, but that itself is also propaganda.
You people are a living meme https://youtu.be/LunM00vtcow?si=CH65ajpcUWwFsved
He also said that they will never pay taxes and never hold a job.
Insane statement for anyone in the tech industry.
Insane statement for anyone in the tech industry.
Scarily close to Nazi propaganda showing the cost of disabled persons to society: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/propaganda-s...
Of course RFK was wrong. You think people with disabilities don't make art? It is an absurd statement on its face, and he did nothing to supply any evidence he was correct.
Autistic folks have been with us forever, we're just way way better at finding and supporting them now.
Autistic folks have been with us forever, we're just way way better at finding and supporting them now.
The autism epidemic in Cali that George WBush attempted to investigate is exactly what made silicon valley exist. Autism should not be viewed as a negative. In the new tech economy aspergers is a huge benefit.
https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/autism-data-visuali...
Also interesting to note because of RFK jr context. Notice Georgia(56.9% vaccinated) and Tennesseeeseee(56.1% vaccinated) as hotspots for autism. While Kentucky isnt a hot spot and is 73.1% routine vaccinated. This is anti-correlative to vaccines causing autism.
My Poem(downvote me if it sucks):
Georgia stands at 56,
Tennessee just barely 56,
Yet Kentucky, in the heat,
Boasts 73 is no small feat.
If vaccines brought harm, the trend would show,
But higher rates see no such blow,
The vaccine myth falls flat,
No link from science, just fears.
https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/autism-data-visuali...
Also interesting to note because of RFK jr context. Notice Georgia(56.9% vaccinated) and Tennesseeeseee(56.1% vaccinated) as hotspots for autism. While Kentucky isnt a hot spot and is 73.1% routine vaccinated. This is anti-correlative to vaccines causing autism.
My Poem(downvote me if it sucks):
Georgia stands at 56,
Tennessee just barely 56,
Yet Kentucky, in the heat,
Boasts 73 is no small feat.
If vaccines brought harm, the trend would show,
But higher rates see no such blow,
The vaccine myth falls flat,
No link from science, just fears.
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> As an autistic English professor who studies literature and neurodiversity, I was especially unnerved by Kennedy’s contention that many autistic people will never write poetry.
> It couldn’t be further from the truth.
Screw this English professor with autism - RFK's comments are literally correct if you read them. Many autistic people like my child will never speak, he's not talking about English professors with level 1 autism. Stop ignoring those of us with much greater challenges, it's so condescending.
> It couldn’t be further from the truth.
Screw this English professor with autism - RFK's comments are literally correct if you read them. Many autistic people like my child will never speak, he's not talking about English professors with level 1 autism. Stop ignoring those of us with much greater challenges, it's so condescending.
Do you want to calculate how much your disabled child costs us healthy families next? It would be "literally correct" too.
An enormous amount, unfortunately for everyone? As it should, in a healthy society.
I think you misread my politics because I think attacking RFK over this point is stupid, counterproductive, and condescending. He is going to cause harm a million ways but this is not it. He is obviously not talking about the English professor who has had a very successful life. The author is trying to do a "well actually" here and missing the entire point, as well as being literally wrong when you read the words. So even a generous, pedantic angle is stupid.
For the record, I align completely with this liberal commentary in the NYT this week, that is 10x more eloquent than I am: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent...
I think you misread my politics because I think attacking RFK over this point is stupid, counterproductive, and condescending. He is going to cause harm a million ways but this is not it. He is obviously not talking about the English professor who has had a very successful life. The author is trying to do a "well actually" here and missing the entire point, as well as being literally wrong when you read the words. So even a generous, pedantic angle is stupid.
For the record, I align completely with this liberal commentary in the NYT this week, that is 10x more eloquent than I am: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent...
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These are all cruel suggestions about people, we should challenge why RFK makes statements like this. Not take them at face value, as if they merit being answered.