Getting Older Isn't What You Think(katycowan.co.uk)
katycowan.co.uk
Getting Older Isn't What You Think
https://www.katycowan.co.uk/blog/getting-old
234 comments
I agree about the clickbait. As I come up on 50, however, I think there are a number of axes on which we can analyze aging.
Chronological age: there is no getting past getting older, you will age and it will be increasingly apparent with time.
Grooming and style: you can, nonetheless, choose to date yourself with your clothing and overall presentation, or not. This can be overdone and make you stand out “trying too hard” not to be old. But there’s a world of middle ground.
Physical: a mix of genetics, nutrition, exercise, access to medical care, self care, and luck. Some people slow down much more than others. Some people, like the author, simply choose to, having been relived of the expectation that younger folks be very busy.
Mentality: do you want to look at younger generations as an alien species, or do you want to deal with people as people and acknowledge that while we all have different backgrounds, new perspectives have their own value. I find I can still relate well to people of about any age. At some point mental decline may rob me of that, but I won’t stop while it’s in my control.
Interests: do you mostly enjoy media and activities particular to a time when you were younger, or do you have a penchant for novelty despite your age?
Chronological age: there is no getting past getting older, you will age and it will be increasingly apparent with time.
Grooming and style: you can, nonetheless, choose to date yourself with your clothing and overall presentation, or not. This can be overdone and make you stand out “trying too hard” not to be old. But there’s a world of middle ground.
Physical: a mix of genetics, nutrition, exercise, access to medical care, self care, and luck. Some people slow down much more than others. Some people, like the author, simply choose to, having been relived of the expectation that younger folks be very busy.
Mentality: do you want to look at younger generations as an alien species, or do you want to deal with people as people and acknowledge that while we all have different backgrounds, new perspectives have their own value. I find I can still relate well to people of about any age. At some point mental decline may rob me of that, but I won’t stop while it’s in my control.
Interests: do you mostly enjoy media and activities particular to a time when you were younger, or do you have a penchant for novelty despite your age?
> Grooming and style: you can, nonetheless, choose to date yourself with your clothing and overall presentation, or not. This can be overdone and make you stand out “trying too hard” not to be old. But there’s a world of middle ground.
for the longest time, I've resisted the zoomers' attempt to bring back 90s/early 00s fashion with oversized shirts and baggy pants, hopelessly clinging to my millennial sensibilities (I like my fitted shirts and skinny jeans, dammit). then one day I just said screw it and bought new oversized shirt and it kinda grew on me.
I'm not going full zuckerberg with the gold chain and whatnot, though.
for the longest time, I've resisted the zoomers' attempt to bring back 90s/early 00s fashion with oversized shirts and baggy pants, hopelessly clinging to my millennial sensibilities (I like my fitted shirts and skinny jeans, dammit). then one day I just said screw it and bought new oversized shirt and it kinda grew on me.
I'm not going full zuckerberg with the gold chain and whatnot, though.
You know what, I'm gonna say it: skinny jeans were never flattering, especially so for men. Even worse when they were low-rise. You're telling me I get to look like I'm shorter, fatter, and have skinny little chicken legs? Well... don't sign me up.
I'm very pleased that flares and high(er)-rise pants are coming back, kinda. With worse materials, unfortunately. Now if only we can have colors that aren't some variation of gray or blue...
I'm very pleased that flares and high(er)-rise pants are coming back, kinda. With worse materials, unfortunately. Now if only we can have colors that aren't some variation of gray or blue...
Well, you have to dress for your figure. Me, I make fitted jeans sing, but I wear boots with stacked heels and I've got legs for days, and even in my forties still can just about put my heels behind my head. (And I wear button shirts which I tuck in, because I am a grownup...or wear untucked and unbuttoned, open over a black or gray strappy undershirt, never white. Or tie around my waist, if it's really hot.)
But I can't wear cargo shorts to save my life! It's all about figuring what works for you and how to make the most of it, you know?
But I can't wear cargo shorts to save my life! It's all about figuring what works for you and how to make the most of it, you know?
I'll go on wearing clothes that fit, thanks. Eventually the children will come around. In the meantime it's hardly as if they aren't noticing all the gray in my hair, so why act the fool by behaving as if I didn't? And clothes that fit look good.
I’m GenX and I hate that this style is coming back, even though I wore my share of baggy pants. It’s not really even the same style, it’s just warped through a second distillation via capitalism and I don’t think it looks that great.
> Grooming and style: you can, nonetheless, choose to date yourself with your clothing and overall presentation, or not.
One thing I admittedly do is stay clean shaven and bald so the gray hair and receding hairline don’t show. But I’ve had the latter since I was in my mid 20s.
I had a (White) former manager tell me years ago that no one can tell how old Black guys are that are clean shaven. I never realized that.
The old joke is that it’s the lotion…
https://youtu.be/RiH-_ZUILk0?si=3I68rm8P35sIy3ke
One thing I admittedly do is stay clean shaven and bald so the gray hair and receding hairline don’t show. But I’ve had the latter since I was in my mid 20s.
I had a (White) former manager tell me years ago that no one can tell how old Black guys are that are clean shaven. I never realized that.
The old joke is that it’s the lotion…
https://youtu.be/RiH-_ZUILk0?si=3I68rm8P35sIy3ke
Yeah, going bald definitely helped me, though I think I aged into the look. (I went bald at 21 by mistake; it looked hella weird then).
I didn't like my hair. It didn't grow very long and, because I'm a side sleeper, I would wake up with super compacted hair that was itchy. I also didn't like paying to wait 30 minutes to make small talk with barbers about shit I didn't care about. Mach 3 all the way.
I _have_ to have a lotion routine. Otherwise my skin will turn dry and gray and feel rough and generally horrible.
At the moment, I use Palmer's shea butter body oil while I'm still wet from the shower, then I top it off with Palmer's coconut butter formula. I used to make my own shea butter lotion, but it was a fair amount of work and takes a while to dissolve into my skin.
I didn't like my hair. It didn't grow very long and, because I'm a side sleeper, I would wake up with super compacted hair that was itchy. I also didn't like paying to wait 30 minutes to make small talk with barbers about shit I didn't care about. Mach 3 all the way.
I _have_ to have a lotion routine. Otherwise my skin will turn dry and gray and feel rough and generally horrible.
At the moment, I use Palmer's shea butter body oil while I'm still wet from the shower, then I top it off with Palmer's coconut butter formula. I used to make my own shea butter lotion, but it was a fair amount of work and takes a while to dissolve into my skin.
I have not seen a clip of a young Bill Burr in ages! Now that he is bald, he is my doppelgänger.
Viktor Frankl also claimed that staying clean-shaven made you look younger, and attributed it as one factor in his survival of the concentration camps. He used a piece of broken glass to shave.
Viktor Frankl also claimed that staying clean-shaven made you look younger, and attributed it as one factor in his survival of the concentration camps. He used a piece of broken glass to shave.
Shaving can definitely help you stay younger looking, but there's also something to be said for the silver fox look. No question I get more attention from women today than when I was 20. Take good care of your body and skin and you can be good looking at any age.
I am married - I only need the attention of one woman…
But when I don’t keep my hair bald. I look more like George Jefferson than George Clooney.
https://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120725/ent/ent2.html
But when I don’t keep my hair bald. I look more like George Jefferson than George Clooney.
https://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120725/ent/ent2.html
> do you mostly enjoy media and activities particular to a time when you were younger, or do you have a penchant for novelty despite your age?
I have negative interest in the superhero movies, so there's that. I don't care for the modern style of shifting the colors to blue/orange. Movies from the 70's have a natural look to the colors.
I prefer 1970s music. Autotune is for whippersnappers.
I yell at clouds a lot, too.
I have negative interest in the superhero movies, so there's that. I don't care for the modern style of shifting the colors to blue/orange. Movies from the 70's have a natural look to the colors.
I prefer 1970s music. Autotune is for whippersnappers.
I yell at clouds a lot, too.
I'm "only" 40 and strongly prefer films made when they still shot and edited on film. The peak as far as visual quality and overall effect of film, for me, was probably the 60s through early 90s, though I love a bunch of films older or newer than that.
The constraints of not being able to color-grade the whole film with a slider or two, of every cut in the edit taking time to do, and of effects that weren't in-camera being relatively expensive, tended to lead to better and more-interesting filmmaking, even in middling films.
I appreciate what the right people can do with modern tools—I enjoy and even love plenty of newer films, and it's undeniably brought some cool stuff within reach of smaller, cheaper productions—but overall I see it as making cinema worse.
"We did it in a computer" being the answer to every "how'd they do that?" isn't movie magic, it's boring as hell. It's why even a film that tries to avoid that to some degree, like the new Dune duology, is in some important respects—though setting aside overall quality of the film on some other dimensions—just less interesting than broadly similar films like Lawrence of Arabia or Star Wars (or even, if I may be so bold, David Lynch's Dune).
I think this sort of opinion is fairly common among film-fans of all ages, due to interest in film making itself as much as output of the process per se. Not sure most movie watchers care, and they may well prefer the newer stuff because of the ultra-fast editing and tuned-to-be-cotton-candy-appealing color schemes and unconstrained video-game camera of fully CGI scenes and all that.
> I prefer 1970s music. Autotune is for whippersnappers.
Hard agree. I can't friggin' believe the heavy-handed autotune in children's media, especially (Daniel Tiger! Fred Rogers would be so unhappy with it). Let's teach them that natural human singing voices, like their own, sound wrong and bad. WTF.
The constraints of not being able to color-grade the whole film with a slider or two, of every cut in the edit taking time to do, and of effects that weren't in-camera being relatively expensive, tended to lead to better and more-interesting filmmaking, even in middling films.
I appreciate what the right people can do with modern tools—I enjoy and even love plenty of newer films, and it's undeniably brought some cool stuff within reach of smaller, cheaper productions—but overall I see it as making cinema worse.
"We did it in a computer" being the answer to every "how'd they do that?" isn't movie magic, it's boring as hell. It's why even a film that tries to avoid that to some degree, like the new Dune duology, is in some important respects—though setting aside overall quality of the film on some other dimensions—just less interesting than broadly similar films like Lawrence of Arabia or Star Wars (or even, if I may be so bold, David Lynch's Dune).
I think this sort of opinion is fairly common among film-fans of all ages, due to interest in film making itself as much as output of the process per se. Not sure most movie watchers care, and they may well prefer the newer stuff because of the ultra-fast editing and tuned-to-be-cotton-candy-appealing color schemes and unconstrained video-game camera of fully CGI scenes and all that.
> I prefer 1970s music. Autotune is for whippersnappers.
Hard agree. I can't friggin' believe the heavy-handed autotune in children's media, especially (Daniel Tiger! Fred Rogers would be so unhappy with it). Let's teach them that natural human singing voices, like their own, sound wrong and bad. WTF.
This is a tired argument. I can easily rattle off movies and music from the last decade that hit as hard as anything from the 70s.
Selective memory. Go listen to all the actual Billboard hits from the 70s. Even before autotune, there was no shortage of ways to make terrible music.
Selective memory. Go listen to all the actual Billboard hits from the 70s. Even before autotune, there was no shortage of ways to make terrible music.
I can easily rattle off movies and music from the last decade
If you have recommendations for good recent drama, I'm interested to hear your suggestions. Let's limit it to interpersonal conflict, by which I mean a movie that follows multiple persons and multiple viewpoints. Think Closer or Dead Poets Society, not Lady Bird or Juno.
If you have recommendations for good recent drama, I'm interested to hear your suggestions. Let's limit it to interpersonal conflict, by which I mean a movie that follows multiple persons and multiple viewpoints. Think Closer or Dead Poets Society, not Lady Bird or Juno.
You know, it hadn’t occurred to me how rare that very-narrow sort of film is. I can easily come up with ones focused on a single character, or different sorts of films with multiple perspectives, but that? The only recent stuff I can think of is from Wes Anderson, though even that’s not a close match, if I’m reading your request correctly.
I certainly enjoyed The Grand Budapest Hotel, but I remember it more as an absurdist exposition rather than a gripping drama. I may be misremembering though. The only other movie I have seen from him is Moonrise Kingdom, so there's a lot left to explore. Thanks for the recommendation!
Maybe you're right that my request is quite narrow. I didn't mean it to be, but it occurred to me that many stories seem to fall back on the rather formulaic "one person's struggle against the world", so my intention was to specifically ask for movies outside of that formula. I could probably have phrased it better than I did.
Maybe you're right that my request is quite narrow. I didn't mean it to be, but it occurred to me that many stories seem to fall back on the rather formulaic "one person's struggle against the world", so my intention was to specifically ask for movies outside of that formula. I could probably have phrased it better than I did.
Pretty much anything on Apple TV is super high quality and worth watching, IMO. Since this is HN, For All Mankind is worth checking out.
> Go listen to all the actual Billboard hits from the 70s
I have the set of Billboard hits CDs.
> hit as hard
I like a lot of music made since the 70's. But one thing is gone - quality singing.
I have the set of Billboard hits CDs.
> hit as hard
I like a lot of music made since the 70's. But one thing is gone - quality singing.
Really?
I can’t make a top 20 movies from the last decade without including crap. There’s several years where I can’t even recommend a single movie.
I can’t make a top 20 movies from the last decade without including crap. There’s several years where I can’t even recommend a single movie.
This perception is an effect of what gets promoted, which is mostly hot garbage.
I watch a lot of movies and can't keep up with the likely-to-be-good ones every year.
There are north of 500 US & Canadian films released per year. Add in foreign (edit: I mean, even more foreign than Canada) cinema, and it's solidly in the four figures. How many movies were you aware of last year? Ten? A couple dozen? Maybe as many as fifty? Drop in the bucket, regardless.
I'm sure there hasn't been a year in the 2000s in which there weren't at least 20 movies released that were worth your time (for those with all but the stingiest and harshest take on "worth my time", and probably also coupled with narrow taste to get the list down under 20).
And I write this as the person who has been perceived as disliking modern movies, from my post a couple steps up this thread! (I don't dislike modern movies! They're just almost-all, for reasons of technology-related changes in production processes, missing certain qualities that I appreciated a bunch in film-era movies)
I watch a lot of movies and can't keep up with the likely-to-be-good ones every year.
There are north of 500 US & Canadian films released per year. Add in foreign (edit: I mean, even more foreign than Canada) cinema, and it's solidly in the four figures. How many movies were you aware of last year? Ten? A couple dozen? Maybe as many as fifty? Drop in the bucket, regardless.
I'm sure there hasn't been a year in the 2000s in which there weren't at least 20 movies released that were worth your time (for those with all but the stingiest and harshest take on "worth my time", and probably also coupled with narrow taste to get the list down under 20).
And I write this as the person who has been perceived as disliking modern movies, from my post a couple steps up this thread! (I don't dislike modern movies! They're just almost-all, for reasons of technology-related changes in production processes, missing certain qualities that I appreciated a bunch in film-era movies)
Let’s be real, the overwhelming majority of those 500 are straight up terrible. Netflix alone has produced well over 100 movies, and IMO at best some of them are worth finishing not that I can think of any off the top of my head.
Now I’m sure you’ve looked forward to many movies but off the top of your head list stuff you’ve either seen more than once and or actually recommend to someone that came our in the last 10 years vs…
(78) The Deer Hunter, Superman, National Lampoon's Animal House, Invasion of the Body Snatchers (79) Apocalypse Now, Alien, Life of Brian, Mad Max, Escape from Alcatraz (80) The Shining, Star Wars: Episode V, Airplane!, The Blues Brothers, Caddyshack, The Elephant Man (81) Raiders of the Lost Ark, Das Boot, The Evil Dead, Mad Max 2, Escape from New York, Time Bandits (82) Blade Runner, The Thing, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, Poltergeist, Conan the Barbarian, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Tron (83) Scarface, WarGames, Star Wars: Episode VI, Trading Places, The Evil Dead
Obviously not all great movies but that’s ~30 classic movies in just 6 years and I’m sure I’ve missed a few as kids movies are largely missing from that list.
Now I’m sure you’ve looked forward to many movies but off the top of your head list stuff you’ve either seen more than once and or actually recommend to someone that came our in the last 10 years vs…
(78) The Deer Hunter, Superman, National Lampoon's Animal House, Invasion of the Body Snatchers (79) Apocalypse Now, Alien, Life of Brian, Mad Max, Escape from Alcatraz (80) The Shining, Star Wars: Episode V, Airplane!, The Blues Brothers, Caddyshack, The Elephant Man (81) Raiders of the Lost Ark, Das Boot, The Evil Dead, Mad Max 2, Escape from New York, Time Bandits (82) Blade Runner, The Thing, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, Poltergeist, Conan the Barbarian, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Tron (83) Scarface, WarGames, Star Wars: Episode VI, Trading Places, The Evil Dead
Obviously not all great movies but that’s ~30 classic movies in just 6 years and I’m sure I’ve missed a few as kids movies are largely missing from that list.
I dunno, 2015, I'm a little weak on this year: It Follows, Creed, Ex Machina, Max Max: Fury Road, Sicario, The Hateful 8. I'd watch those again with someone any time, and recommend all of them often. Several on my to-watch list most of which I expect to be good, like Queen of the Desert, While We're Young, Slow West, and The Overnight, just haven't made it to them yet. Not an exhaustive list, just gleaned from some titles I have at hand.
2016: Green Room, The Nice Guys, Hail Caesar!, The Neon Demon, Swiss Army Man, Hunt for the Wilder People, The VVitch, Train to Busan, Shin Godzilla, Moana (hey, I like this one), Arrival. Moonlight's on my to-watch and is supposed to be really good.
2017 (I've done OK on catching up with these!): The Lost City of Z, Dunkirk, Low Life, Good Time, Logan Lucky (absolutely slept on, kills it as a feel-good lightweight small-stakes heist movie), Blade Runner 2049, The Death of Stalin (I liked this less than a lot of folks, but given how widely-loved it was, I'm probably the idiot here), One Cut of the Dead, You Were Never Really Here. The Planet of the Apes movie from that year, plus Phantom Thread, and The Little Hours are to-watch for me and come highly recommended.
2018: Annihilation, Isle of Dogs, Upgrade, Sorry to Bother You, High Life, Eighth Grade, the Suspiria remake. To-watch that I expect to be good include Champion (Korean arm wrestling movie—there's another movie by the same name that year), First Reformed, BlacKkKLansman, The Favourite, The Wolf House, Climax, and some others.
2019: HUGE year for the particular (small) set I'm seeing on my list, including a ton to-watch but a bunch I've seen. Uncut Gems, The Lighthouse, Knives Out, Little Women, JoJo Rabbit, Ready or Not, Parasite, Midsommar, The Art of Self Defense, maybe Marriage Story (but if you've seen one Baumbach movie, you've kinda seen them all, and I'm not sure I'd put it above The Squid and the Whale). Midway's a well-above-average war movie and pairs great with Tora, Tora, Tora! as a crazy-long double feature in a really fun way. To-watch list is nuts and I really need to dedicate a month or so to filling out my watched-list for this year: First Cow, The Irishman, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Bacurau, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, The Farewell, The Souvenir, Blow the Man Down, The Vast of Night, Her Smell, Funan.
It basically just keeps going like that, year after year, and I've barely even tried to dredge up good movies for most of those years, the bulk of it's just stuff that's risen to my attention one way or another, and I'm terrible at keeping up with foreign film especially. I also left off some that a lot of folks would probably include, like at least one Mission Impossible (aside from MI2, I think these are all pretty good action movies, though quality varies a bit) and Avengers: Endgame which, opinion on the rest of Marvel aside (I think it's mostly kinda lazy crap? But was basically entertained for most of them regardless, so I guess I can't complain too much) was a hell of an event. Also Black Panther, which everyone loved but I was pretty meh on (I hate the entire end fight, and it's looooong)
2016: Green Room, The Nice Guys, Hail Caesar!, The Neon Demon, Swiss Army Man, Hunt for the Wilder People, The VVitch, Train to Busan, Shin Godzilla, Moana (hey, I like this one), Arrival. Moonlight's on my to-watch and is supposed to be really good.
2017 (I've done OK on catching up with these!): The Lost City of Z, Dunkirk, Low Life, Good Time, Logan Lucky (absolutely slept on, kills it as a feel-good lightweight small-stakes heist movie), Blade Runner 2049, The Death of Stalin (I liked this less than a lot of folks, but given how widely-loved it was, I'm probably the idiot here), One Cut of the Dead, You Were Never Really Here. The Planet of the Apes movie from that year, plus Phantom Thread, and The Little Hours are to-watch for me and come highly recommended.
2018: Annihilation, Isle of Dogs, Upgrade, Sorry to Bother You, High Life, Eighth Grade, the Suspiria remake. To-watch that I expect to be good include Champion (Korean arm wrestling movie—there's another movie by the same name that year), First Reformed, BlacKkKLansman, The Favourite, The Wolf House, Climax, and some others.
2019: HUGE year for the particular (small) set I'm seeing on my list, including a ton to-watch but a bunch I've seen. Uncut Gems, The Lighthouse, Knives Out, Little Women, JoJo Rabbit, Ready or Not, Parasite, Midsommar, The Art of Self Defense, maybe Marriage Story (but if you've seen one Baumbach movie, you've kinda seen them all, and I'm not sure I'd put it above The Squid and the Whale). Midway's a well-above-average war movie and pairs great with Tora, Tora, Tora! as a crazy-long double feature in a really fun way. To-watch list is nuts and I really need to dedicate a month or so to filling out my watched-list for this year: First Cow, The Irishman, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Bacurau, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, The Farewell, The Souvenir, Blow the Man Down, The Vast of Night, Her Smell, Funan.
It basically just keeps going like that, year after year, and I've barely even tried to dredge up good movies for most of those years, the bulk of it's just stuff that's risen to my attention one way or another, and I'm terrible at keeping up with foreign film especially. I also left off some that a lot of folks would probably include, like at least one Mission Impossible (aside from MI2, I think these are all pretty good action movies, though quality varies a bit) and Avengers: Endgame which, opinion on the rest of Marvel aside (I think it's mostly kinda lazy crap? But was basically entertained for most of them regardless, so I guess I can't complain too much) was a hell of an event. Also Black Panther, which everyone loved but I was pretty meh on (I hate the entire end fight, and it's looooong)
Ahh, I’ve seen quite a few of those and am surprised you actually recommend them.
I remember describing Ex Machina as the worst movie of the year I actually finished watching, but hey everyone likes different things.
I remember describing Ex Machina as the worst movie of the year I actually finished watching, but hey everyone likes different things.
Haha, I’d recommend that one for the performances alone, especially Oscar Isaac but also the other two.
Personally when I notice the acting the movie has already failed at something else. The Lighthouse’s acting stands out to me because the movie’s attempts at suspense fail. I quickly found it hard to avoid engaging with nuances of the films creation as an intellectual exercise rather than the film itself.
At the other end of the spectrum there’s a ton of movies with child actors where the kids are just vastly less talented, so the film simply demands less of them. It’s just as true of Let the Right One In a low budget foreign film as it is high budget films such as Harry Potter or classics like The Shinning. Characters come to life not through great acting but because all the elements line up so you forget you’re looking at puppets at the puppet show.
IMO, Great movies are all about understanding the limitations of the medium, the audience, characters, budget, script, etc. That’s why the snap at the end of Avengers: Infinity War was spectacle but didn’t have the emotional impact of a single deer being shot at the beginning of Bambi.
/soapbox
Again not that you’re wrong, but I was thinking about your response for a while.
At the other end of the spectrum there’s a ton of movies with child actors where the kids are just vastly less talented, so the film simply demands less of them. It’s just as true of Let the Right One In a low budget foreign film as it is high budget films such as Harry Potter or classics like The Shinning. Characters come to life not through great acting but because all the elements line up so you forget you’re looking at puppets at the puppet show.
IMO, Great movies are all about understanding the limitations of the medium, the audience, characters, budget, script, etc. That’s why the snap at the end of Avengers: Infinity War was spectacle but didn’t have the emotional impact of a single deer being shot at the beginning of Bambi.
/soapbox
Again not that you’re wrong, but I was thinking about your response for a while.
It's not about "hitting as hard" and I admitted I like, and love, tons of modern films... it's not even an "argument", it's a statement of preference, part of what I, and many other film fans, enjoy is the craft of film, and there was simply more to that before everything went digital, so pre-heavily-digital films are more interesting and impressive, to me and to others who appreciate those factors, all else being equal (though often enough, all else is not equal!)
I simply find film-craft more interesting and impressive, and the constraints to drive more-fun (and sometimes absolutely brilliant) creative choices, before they were ~all shot and edited digitally. It's not about good or bad, exactly, but about an aspect of older films that's now all but gone in modern ones. I also happen to appreciate silent film, and some things about those that were impressive and fun went away with talkies—it's not that the talkies were necessarily worse in some absolute sense, but some potentially-enjoyable qualities of silents took a back seat once talkies took over. If someone had really been into those aspects of cinema, they might have tended to prefer older silents over newer talkies, without necessarily disliking all talkies. Similar story with film vs. digital.
I happen to like the film-craft side of things enough that, for me, it in general makes film-era movies more appealing. That doesn't mean I don't watch and enjoy three dozen or more digital films per year, but I do lose out on some of that aspect of my enjoyment of film, with those. This is most-pronounced in action and "genre" (e.g. sci fi) movies.
Like, I watch the modern US Godzilla (I happen to think the first one in this US series is pretty good!) and the action's... fine, nothing particularly wrong with it, but I'm marveling at none of it, just zero. I watch 1954 Godzilla, or Return of Godzilla (1984) and sure, the action's mostly less-convincing (though some of those room-collapse shots in the '54 movie...) but it's also far more interesting.
> Even before autotune, there was no shortage of ways to make terrible music.
Did anyone claim there weren't absolute mountains of bad music in any age? Of course there were, most of anything is bad. Disliking autotune and related tech's effects on music (e.g. visual vs. by-ear editing) doesn't mean claiming that music lacking it is necessarily not-bad.
I simply find film-craft more interesting and impressive, and the constraints to drive more-fun (and sometimes absolutely brilliant) creative choices, before they were ~all shot and edited digitally. It's not about good or bad, exactly, but about an aspect of older films that's now all but gone in modern ones. I also happen to appreciate silent film, and some things about those that were impressive and fun went away with talkies—it's not that the talkies were necessarily worse in some absolute sense, but some potentially-enjoyable qualities of silents took a back seat once talkies took over. If someone had really been into those aspects of cinema, they might have tended to prefer older silents over newer talkies, without necessarily disliking all talkies. Similar story with film vs. digital.
I happen to like the film-craft side of things enough that, for me, it in general makes film-era movies more appealing. That doesn't mean I don't watch and enjoy three dozen or more digital films per year, but I do lose out on some of that aspect of my enjoyment of film, with those. This is most-pronounced in action and "genre" (e.g. sci fi) movies.
Like, I watch the modern US Godzilla (I happen to think the first one in this US series is pretty good!) and the action's... fine, nothing particularly wrong with it, but I'm marveling at none of it, just zero. I watch 1954 Godzilla, or Return of Godzilla (1984) and sure, the action's mostly less-convincing (though some of those room-collapse shots in the '54 movie...) but it's also far more interesting.
> Even before autotune, there was no shortage of ways to make terrible music.
Did anyone claim there weren't absolute mountains of bad music in any age? Of course there were, most of anything is bad. Disliking autotune and related tech's effects on music (e.g. visual vs. by-ear editing) doesn't mean claiming that music lacking it is necessarily not-bad.
I guess but has anyone really replicated peak Led Zeppelin or “wish you were here”?
Nope.
There is Greta van Fleet, where the lead singer's voice sounds like Robert Plant's voice, and I could imagine Zep was back in business. Unfortunately, the singer hated being compared with Plant and went off in some loser direction.
Zep is still the greatest band ever.
There is Greta van Fleet, where the lead singer's voice sounds like Robert Plant's voice, and I could imagine Zep was back in business. Unfortunately, the singer hated being compared with Plant and went off in some loser direction.
Zep is still the greatest band ever.
Radiohead
I like aviation movies. Consider:
1. The Blue Max
2. Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines
The special effects in them were - they built flying replicas of the airplanes used in the films! Can you imagine that happening today?
Two great and very special movies. Both made in the 1960s.
A special mention for Battle of Britain - they didn't build replicas, but dredged up the last remaining flying Me-109s and Spits and, well, seeing and hearing them fly is glorious.
1. The Blue Max
2. Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines
The special effects in them were - they built flying replicas of the airplanes used in the films! Can you imagine that happening today?
Two great and very special movies. Both made in the 1960s.
A special mention for Battle of Britain - they didn't build replicas, but dredged up the last remaining flying Me-109s and Spits and, well, seeing and hearing them fly is glorious.
Battle of Britain isn't the best from a narrative perspective, but damn is it a fun watch anyway.
My other favorite air war movies I've made it to so far are Twelve O'Clock High with its beautiful flying fortresses (they belly landed one of them! For the movie! For real!), extremely well-integrated war footage, and clear action (compare to the muddled, ugly mess that is The Dambusters); and Wings—how, how on Earth did they get such good aerial photography that early? And the miniature work isn't bad, either.
I've somehow heard of neither of your first two mentions, but will be checking them both out soon.
My other favorite air war movies I've made it to so far are Twelve O'Clock High with its beautiful flying fortresses (they belly landed one of them! For the movie! For real!), extremely well-integrated war footage, and clear action (compare to the muddled, ugly mess that is The Dambusters); and Wings—how, how on Earth did they get such good aerial photography that early? And the miniature work isn't bad, either.
I've somehow heard of neither of your first two mentions, but will be checking them both out soon.
> I've somehow heard of neither of your first two mentions, but will be checking them both out soon.
I envy you! I wish I could see them again for the first time!
Based on your remarks, I bet you would love "The War Lover", 1963. They used 3 real B-17s for the movie. Very realistic. I know this because my dad flew 32 missions in a B-17, and was assigned by the Air Force to them as a consultant for accuracy for the movie. He made the mission map used in the briefing.
He was also responsible for the "cutting the grass sequence". The director was just going to use models because it was too dangerous, but my dad showed them how to do it safely. The sequence is just terrific. The AF was mad at him for recommending it, but the sequence was very popular with the critics and he was forgiven.
P.S. How to do it safely: do it at dawn when the air is still. Station people at various locations around the flight path in continuous communication with the pilot telling him his altitude. Fly the route again and again, each time slightly lower.
I envy you! I wish I could see them again for the first time!
Based on your remarks, I bet you would love "The War Lover", 1963. They used 3 real B-17s for the movie. Very realistic. I know this because my dad flew 32 missions in a B-17, and was assigned by the Air Force to them as a consultant for accuracy for the movie. He made the mission map used in the briefing.
He was also responsible for the "cutting the grass sequence". The director was just going to use models because it was too dangerous, but my dad showed them how to do it safely. The sequence is just terrific. The AF was mad at him for recommending it, but the sequence was very popular with the critics and he was forgiven.
P.S. How to do it safely: do it at dawn when the air is still. Station people at various locations around the flight path in continuous communication with the pilot telling him his altitude. Fly the route again and again, each time slightly lower.
The War Lover made its way onto my to-watch list a few months back! I’ll bump it up a bit and keep an eye out for that sequence, thanks for sharing the story.
Martin Caidin wrote an entire book about the B-17's in that movie: "Everything But The Flak".
https://www.amazon.com/Everything-But-Flak-Martin-Caidin/dp/...
https://www.amazon.com/Everything-But-Flak-Martin-Caidin/dp/...
What about The Dambusters? One of my favorites. Not only aviation but also hacking (inventing a bouncing bomb to overcome the dam defenses).
I've seen documentaries on the dam busters, but not the flick. I should check it out.
> The peak as far as visual quality and overall effect of film, for me, was probably the 60s through early 90s, though I love a bunch of films older or newer than that.
Those movies were real. The stories were made up, scenes were sets, but ... the images are of real people in meat-world locations, standing near other people, speaking things they mostly really spoke, doing things they mostly really did. It's jarring by juxtaposition just how ... fake modern hyperreal CGI appears on screen.
Those movies were real. The stories were made up, scenes were sets, but ... the images are of real people in meat-world locations, standing near other people, speaking things they mostly really spoke, doing things they mostly really did. It's jarring by juxtaposition just how ... fake modern hyperreal CGI appears on screen.
I get vertigo from heights very easily, so much so that I even have to look away from movie scenes where a camera looks straight down, like the scene at the beginning of The Matrix where Neo is on the ledge and drops his phone and the camera follows it down.
A couple years ago, some friends got me to go along to one of the Spiderman movies. Early on, there's a big fight scene on a bridge, and heroes and villains are flipping around in the air, falling off towers and things, and I realized it wasn't bothering me at all. None of it had any weight, or whatever it is about heights that usually makes me feel sick even when I know it's fake.
A couple years ago, some friends got me to go along to one of the Spiderman movies. Early on, there's a big fight scene on a bridge, and heroes and villains are flipping around in the air, falling off towers and things, and I realized it wasn't bothering me at all. None of it had any weight, or whatever it is about heights that usually makes me feel sick even when I know it's fake.
A fun scene is when Hans Gruber falls in Die Hard. The panic on his face is real as the director tricked him into it.
Older movies are like actually real.
Like if there's a coffee shop scene you can look out the window and see like a postman deliver mail or a somebody walk a dog. Stuff that isn't between the main characters happens.
The newer trend of blurring everything that isn't a main character is really annoying to me. Real life isn't blurred ...
Like if there's a coffee shop scene you can look out the window and see like a postman deliver mail or a somebody walk a dog. Stuff that isn't between the main characters happens.
The newer trend of blurring everything that isn't a main character is really annoying to me. Real life isn't blurred ...
> "We did it in a computer" being the answer to every "how'd they do that?" isn't movie magic, it's boring as hell.
True. I lost all interest in "making of" documentaries due to that.
True. I lost all interest in "making of" documentaries due to that.
For comparison, go watch the 1975 Escape to Witch Mountain movie.
The practical effects are whimsical but are so close to realistic that it's quite jarring for people who have only seen digital FX, it evokes that wonder of, "how did they do that" when you suddenly realize that it's not perfect but it wasn't done with a computer and you can't clearly identify what isn't perfect about it.
It's charming and it will make you lament the lack of practical special effects in modern movies.
Disney used to be the equivalent of watching a magician perform an amazing stage play live.
Now it's a prerecorded bus stop ad designed to distract you from the burning air and dirty seats until you step onto the next leg of your journey between work and the office.
The practical effects are whimsical but are so close to realistic that it's quite jarring for people who have only seen digital FX, it evokes that wonder of, "how did they do that" when you suddenly realize that it's not perfect but it wasn't done with a computer and you can't clearly identify what isn't perfect about it.
It's charming and it will make you lament the lack of practical special effects in modern movies.
Disney used to be the equivalent of watching a magician perform an amazing stage play live.
Now it's a prerecorded bus stop ad designed to distract you from the burning air and dirty seats until you step onto the next leg of your journey between work and the office.
If you haven’t seen it, check out the 1990 Total Recall making of especially for how they built and filmed the Mars models.
It was the peak era of practical special effects, and hugely expensive to do something that now can be done with only a couple of people and a cheap computer.
It was the peak era of practical special effects, and hugely expensive to do something that now can be done with only a couple of people and a cheap computer.
> heavy-handed autotune
Anyone who doesn't understand this should listen to a Karen Carpenter song, and compare it with a modern pop singer.
Anyone who doesn't understand this should listen to a Karen Carpenter song, and compare it with a modern pop singer.
Every sha-la-la-la, every whoa-e-whoa, still shines…
What was funny about the 70s was everyone was nostalgic for the 50s. (eg Happy Days) Now everyone is nostalgic for the 70s!
Somewhat ironically, HD killed cinematography.
Because there's enough clarity to see set errors, everything important is filmed in the dark.
Examples: just about every fight scene since 2018; Castle first season vs last.
One of the reasons why Shogun was so appealing is they did something different.
Because there's enough clarity to see set errors, everything important is filmed in the dark.
Examples: just about every fight scene since 2018; Castle first season vs last.
One of the reasons why Shogun was so appealing is they did something different.
And "modern" TVs have motion smoothing which make so many things look so synthetic and dizzying.
First thing I turn off when I get new TVs. It destroys old cartoons especially. Neutral color profile too. RTINGS tells you how to do it.
We’ve got the minority opinion; most don’t even notice. I make a point to ask whenever around others near one.
On the other hand a surprising amount of modern movies are still filmed on kodak movie film then scanned for digital distribution.
> Somewhat ironically, HD killed cinematography.
Imagine Wild Strawberries in HD. I think it would seem bleaker. Or Blue Velvet. It would make Blue Velvet creepier. It would also make any Corman film seem classier.
HD didn't ruin cinema. It only ruins beauty.
Imagine Wild Strawberries in HD. I think it would seem bleaker. Or Blue Velvet. It would make Blue Velvet creepier. It would also make any Corman film seem classier.
HD didn't ruin cinema. It only ruins beauty.
HD is lower quality than film. Maybe this is true for home entertainment, but we take less advantage of darkness than ever from my perspective. It's the video-game CGI that kills me.
There was an experiment maybe 15 years ago, where they sent film material through the whole printing and distribution process, and measured the vertical resolution that could still be resolved on an actual cinema screen using analog projection. The result was around 700p IIRC, below full HD in any case.
Yeah, I'm gonna need to see some receipts. From what I remember super35 film should approach 8k resolution under ideal conditions.
> under ideal conditions.
I interpreted the claim as being under non-ideal conditions (which is fair, frankly—it's well-known that the visual and sound quality is better at the beginning of a run than at the end, and film quality doesn't matter if your local theater doesn't ensure it's preserved as best it can be).
Plus, I saw a film viewing of Sinners this past weekend (quite a fun movie, highly recommend it) and some visual artifacts were very noticeable—it was regular enough I figured there was a slice of the film roll that got damaged somehow.
I interpreted the claim as being under non-ideal conditions (which is fair, frankly—it's well-known that the visual and sound quality is better at the beginning of a run than at the end, and film quality doesn't matter if your local theater doesn't ensure it's preserved as best it can be).
Plus, I saw a film viewing of Sinners this past weekend (quite a fun movie, highly recommend it) and some visual artifacts were very noticeable—it was regular enough I figured there was a slice of the film roll that got damaged somehow.
Just for a quick update, I got curious and it seems the resolution actually should be a touch over 10k for super35, as for regular 35mm it seems spot on at 9.5k resolution.
https://www.filmfix.com/en/blog/35mm-film-resolution/
https://www.filmfix.com/en/blog/35mm-film-resolution/
700p? Are you sure? I don't belive cinemas had about the same resolution as PAL at 576p. 720p is blurry too on big screens.
See the PDF kindly linked by the sibling (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43919991):
• “The highest resolution that the expert assessors could discern in the highest performing movie theater was about 875 L/PH.
• “The horizontal resolution averaged over the six multi-burst groups measured on the screens of the six selected movie theaters was about 715 L/PH.”
L/PH = lines per picture height, i.e. vertical resolution
This was for 35 mm film.
Also, well-mastered DVDs with anamorphic widescreen can look astonishingly good on an output device that doesn’t interpolate its lines.
• “The highest resolution that the expert assessors could discern in the highest performing movie theater was about 875 L/PH.
• “The horizontal resolution averaged over the six multi-burst groups measured on the screens of the six selected movie theaters was about 715 L/PH.”
L/PH = lines per picture height, i.e. vertical resolution
This was for 35 mm film.
Also, well-mastered DVDs with anamorphic widescreen can look astonishingly good on an output device that doesn’t interpolate its lines.
4k remasters are done by scanning film, 35mm has plenty resolution
Watching a 4K digital scan of a master copy on a 4K TV is different from what you would see in movie theaters. The roughly 700-800 lines is the apparent resolution one would experience in a real-life movie theater with analog projection.
The point is that even 1080p TV is an improvement in resolution over what you used to see in cinemas with 35 mm prints.
The point is that even 1080p TV is an improvement in resolution over what you used to see in cinemas with 35 mm prints.
> filmed in the dark
House of Dragon was so filmed in the dark, with poor contrast, and color-corrected to be all blue and orange, is almost painful to watch. I have a hard time even seeing what is happening.
House of Dragon was so filmed in the dark, with poor contrast, and color-corrected to be all blue and orange, is almost painful to watch. I have a hard time even seeing what is happening.
I'm mostly a child of the 90s, and I prefer 70s music too. The music scene of the 80s and 90s was soulless (pun intended), at least when it comes to mainstream cultural presence. When I think of the music of my youth, the terms that come to mind are vapid imaging, bland instrumentation, and unimaginative lyrics. I guess you could say I was old the day I was born :)
The music did not get better with age either; that music is now old enough to enter "classics" radio stations, which means those stations now alternate between nostalgia and nausea for me. The only redeeming quality those songs seem to have is that they can get even worse, as judged by recent covers/remakes of earlier failures (really, how barren must your musical taste be choose to cover Liquido by Narcotic?)
That's not to say that nothing good came from that period; it's just that good music from that time was not successful. I had great fun in the 2000s and 2010s discovering the bands and artists that should have been big in the 90s.
I have no problems with the movies nor the cartoons of my youth though, those are still the best cinema ever produced.
The music did not get better with age either; that music is now old enough to enter "classics" radio stations, which means those stations now alternate between nostalgia and nausea for me. The only redeeming quality those songs seem to have is that they can get even worse, as judged by recent covers/remakes of earlier failures (really, how barren must your musical taste be choose to cover Liquido by Narcotic?)
That's not to say that nothing good came from that period; it's just that good music from that time was not successful. I had great fun in the 2000s and 2010s discovering the bands and artists that should have been big in the 90s.
I have no problems with the movies nor the cartoons of my youth though, those are still the best cinema ever produced.
Checkout Rocky&Bullwinkle from the 60's. It was allegedly targeted at kids, but there's a lot of sly adult humor in it. Sort of like the first season of SpongeBob.
Get the old used VHS tapes of it from Ebay, not the DVD. The re-releases of it replaced the music and destroyed it.
The Jetsons is fun to watch, as it predicted a lot of the gadgets we actually have today.
Get the old used VHS tapes of it from Ebay, not the DVD. The re-releases of it replaced the music and destroyed it.
The Jetsons is fun to watch, as it predicted a lot of the gadgets we actually have today.
So much great dance music from the 80s. Also, David friggin Bowie!
> Autotune is for whippersnappers.
Yeah, WTF is up with that. It's autotune everywhere now. It was originally intended for some limited uses and it wasn't supposed to be obvious. And now it's obviously everywhere. I suspect it's going to make it easier for AI vocalists to take over.
Yeah, WTF is up with that. It's autotune everywhere now. It was originally intended for some limited uses and it wasn't supposed to be obvious. And now it's obviously everywhere. I suspect it's going to make it easier for AI vocalists to take over.
With a few notable exceptions, today musicians need to be good looking in order to be marketable. It's much easier to take a beautiful or handsome model who doesn't have musical talent and use technology to manufacture a musician out of them, than it is to take a homely but talented musician and manufacture a star out of them.
And under 30.
I jest but let’s not say “musicians” need to be good looking but maybe in most cases “chart topping” musicians.
I jest but let’s not say “musicians” need to be good looking but maybe in most cases “chart topping” musicians.
It’s always been a young persons game - at least as far back as the 80s
I’m lazy and didn’t feel like doing the work myself.
https://chatgpt.com/share/681bf3ea-c650-8010-988d-173af745c8...
But these results were based on using ChatGPT’s web search and Python tools and you can verify the citations and the Python code yourself.
Stats for the top 20 artists
Median age: 30 Mean: 30.55 Range: 22-29
I did the same analysis for 20 years ago for this week and the median and the range was 29.5 years old and the range was 18 to 35.
The top 10 20 years before that had a median of 26, a mean of 29.5 and a range between 21-37.
Those numbers aren’t quite as accurate because “We are the World” was #2 and you had a lot of groups back then
I’m lazy and didn’t feel like doing the work myself.
https://chatgpt.com/share/681bf3ea-c650-8010-988d-173af745c8...
But these results were based on using ChatGPT’s web search and Python tools and you can verify the citations and the Python code yourself.
Stats for the top 20 artists
Median age: 30 Mean: 30.55 Range: 22-29
I did the same analysis for 20 years ago for this week and the median and the range was 29.5 years old and the range was 18 to 35.
The top 10 20 years before that had a median of 26, a mean of 29.5 and a range between 21-37.
Those numbers aren’t quite as accurate because “We are the World” was #2 and you had a lot of groups back then
Also, they must work alone. It seems a music "artist" these days is only the face of the operation, the composers and stage musicians deserve no mention apparently.
You can thank T-Pain for it [1], but the hilarious thing is he can actually sing [2] unlike most of the others using it.
[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/06/t-pain-usher-ruined...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIjXUg1s5gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ck0vJBygo
[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/06/t-pain-usher-ruined...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIjXUg1s5gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ck0vJBygo
Almost every popular artist can sing far better than the average person. It's not a question of skill or talent, it's a question of perfect or imperfect.
The hype train does not allow for imperfection, nor does it stop for anything that isn't better than human.
The hype train does not allow for imperfection, nor does it stop for anything that isn't better than human.
AFAIK lots of new remasters of classic albums are auto-tuning the vocals as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/1bfxj2d/w...
https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/1bfxj2d/w...
I avoid the remasters.
> Interests: do you mostly enjoy media and activities particular to a time when you were younger, or do you have a penchant for novelty despite your age?
I have been into hip hop and rap since the mid 80s. I was a fitness instructor until 2012 right before I turned 40 and had to keep up with modern music of all types depending on the audience.
I’m not one of those that think all new music sucks since I’ve seen the evolution over three decades, I do still recognize the new generation that actually has talent - can flow with the music, have clever turns of phrases, not overproduced, etc. My 22 year old (step)son shares his music playlist with me and pick out songs out of his list and add to mine just so I can relate to him.
I have been into hip hop and rap since the mid 80s. I was a fitness instructor until 2012 right before I turned 40 and had to keep up with modern music of all types depending on the audience.
I’m not one of those that think all new music sucks since I’ve seen the evolution over three decades, I do still recognize the new generation that actually has talent - can flow with the music, have clever turns of phrases, not overproduced, etc. My 22 year old (step)son shares his music playlist with me and pick out songs out of his list and add to mine just so I can relate to him.
As far as interests go, I like old and new music all the same.
I try to stay current with what's charging, even though I don't like mainstream media much. So much music these days trends on social media, which I no longer participate in, but Apple Music does a good job of tracking what's hot.
I try to stay current with what's charging, even though I don't like mainstream media much. So much music these days trends on social media, which I no longer participate in, but Apple Music does a good job of tracking what's hot.
I'm 55 this year.
Getting junk mail from the AARP made me feel old. Especially when I opened it, saw the free trunk organizer and discounts and thought that's a pretty good deal.
It's weird for me to think that I was born 25 years after WWII and today, 25 years ago was 2000. A year ain't what it used to be.
Getting junk mail from the AARP made me feel old. Especially when I opened it, saw the free trunk organizer and discounts and thought that's a pretty good deal.
It's weird for me to think that I was born 25 years after WWII and today, 25 years ago was 2000. A year ain't what it used to be.
The senior center a mile away from me has weekly Scrabble afternoons! I was delighted to find out about that after being shocked to know that I'm eligible for membership.
The one near me is called the "50+ center".
> Getting junk mail from the AARP made me feel old.
Not only have I been getting AARP mail since I was 25, but you can actually join at any age. It's worth considering even for the relatively youthful.
Not only have I been getting AARP mail since I was 25, but you can actually join at any age. It's worth considering even for the relatively youthful.
Wait till you realize the commercials for the shows you watch are all for old people medical problems.
Just watching something where you get commercials already dates you. ;)
Watch a major network like CBS on a Sunday morning. All they advertise are housewares, home decor, other old people shows and age-related & vanity drugs.
Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, etc., run commercials.
i'm 55 in 10 days. I get a discount at the golf course!
On the plus side, we were born in what I think was the greatest time to be born. Kids in the 70’s, teens in the 80’s, and were in our 20’s for the 90’s. We knew the world before computers were common and watched (or helped) network the planet.
You can likely join your neighbourhood seniors org too!
I never, still don't, really feel like I'm old or even getting old. Yet somehow, at some point, I started referring to twenty somethings as kids. Not sure exactly how I reconcile the two, but maybe learning to accept our own inconsistencies is another part of this whole not getting old thing.
> Yet somehow, at some point, I started referring to twenty somethings as kids.
I never started doing it intentionally but at some point I noticed they are all about self confidence while in reality they have no knowledge or experience. Which can be catastrophic when you entrust them with something important. That's when I started calling them kids.
I never started doing it intentionally but at some point I noticed they are all about self confidence while in reality they have no knowledge or experience. Which can be catastrophic when you entrust them with something important. That's when I started calling them kids.
There are definitely days where you notice it suddenly, even if the buildup was gradual.
I'm younger than you, but recent years as the gen Z kids come up there have been more of these moments accepting that my cohort is increasingly less of the star of the show.
I'm younger than you, but recent years as the gen Z kids come up there have been more of these moments accepting that my cohort is increasingly less of the star of the show.
I knew I was getting old when shop assistants started calling me ‘sir’.
I ask for the old fart discount.
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Any decent headline can be accused of being clickbait. The entire point is to get the reader interested.
I personally try to avoid attempting to manipulate interest and instead capture existing interest. In this framing, clickbait is something headlines can be accused of.
active male who's now 51; I disagree a bit about it "sneaking up" - at least for me. I noticed a massive decline in just a year or two, where I started commenting "I feel old" a lot more.
The delta isn't so different, but there are lots of things where I feel an inflection from "improving" to "flat or declining" and that is extremely noticeable. To me that's what aging is, and it happens FAST.
The delta isn't so different, but there are lots of things where I feel an inflection from "improving" to "flat or declining" and that is extremely noticeable. To me that's what aging is, and it happens FAST.
A couple years ago I renewed my passport. When the new passport came in and I compared the picture page of both, I went through a similar feeling (basically comparing my 20YO to my 30YO) noticing the bags under my eyes getting darker and just general expression looking more docile.
After having my first born, my hair began to gray fairly rapidly (thankfully no balding yet) and when I look in the mirror, sometimes, it just feels odd.
It gets worse every time you renew it.
I considered myself old when I hit 30 and it’s been pretty liberating
same, and i'm 57 now but feel no sense of age
Wait until the health issues hit.
[deleted]
> geez, who is that old guy looking back at me?
Relevant Weezer: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gkroIXktjgE
Relevant Weezer: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gkroIXktjgE
You know you're old when the pop music you loved decades ago is played in the supermarket. For me that hearing Weezer over the supermarket PA whilst browsing aisle 7 last year.
Honestly, the one thing I hope to hold onto is never wondering what's wrong with kids these days.
We've seen too many generations asking that question for me to conclude that there is anything wrong with them. There's just a lot of ways to be human, and they're exploring a different channel than my generation did.
We've seen too many generations asking that question for me to conclude that there is anything wrong with them. There's just a lot of ways to be human, and they're exploring a different channel than my generation did.
If you’re in tech I’d argue you have a moral responsibility to be curious about what’s wrong with kids these days.
Specifically, the research that went into the book The Anxious Generation.
Specifically, the research that went into the book The Anxious Generation.
That's kind of what I mean. Every generation thinks this new tech is ruining kids: we thought it for radio, we thought it for television. Hell, we thought it for writing:
"O most expert Theuth, one man can give birth to the elements of an art, but only another can judge how they can benefit or harm those who will use them. And now, since you are the father of writing, your affection for it has made you describe its effects as the opposite of what they really are. In fact, it will introduce forgetfulness into the soul of those who learn it: they will not practice using their memory because they will put their trust in writing, which is external and depends on signs that belong to others, instead of trying to remember from the inside, completely on their own."
I'm sure there are different stressors and challenges on young people that I didn't experience at their age, but "what's wrong with" is immediately the wrong framing. It flies in the face of a history of human adaptation to their environment. The notion that the newest batch of challenges is different, fundamentally, from previous ones is the kind of thinking that leads people to hold up THESE ARE THE END TIMES signs in the streets generation after generation for thousands of years.
(Having a couple teenagers in my life: the challenges they experience are special and different from what I experienced, but mine were different from my parents and their parents lived through one or two world wars).
"O most expert Theuth, one man can give birth to the elements of an art, but only another can judge how they can benefit or harm those who will use them. And now, since you are the father of writing, your affection for it has made you describe its effects as the opposite of what they really are. In fact, it will introduce forgetfulness into the soul of those who learn it: they will not practice using their memory because they will put their trust in writing, which is external and depends on signs that belong to others, instead of trying to remember from the inside, completely on their own."
I'm sure there are different stressors and challenges on young people that I didn't experience at their age, but "what's wrong with" is immediately the wrong framing. It flies in the face of a history of human adaptation to their environment. The notion that the newest batch of challenges is different, fundamentally, from previous ones is the kind of thinking that leads people to hold up THESE ARE THE END TIMES signs in the streets generation after generation for thousands of years.
(Having a couple teenagers in my life: the challenges they experience are special and different from what I experienced, but mine were different from my parents and their parents lived through one or two world wars).
I think you can be aware of the history going from newspapers to radio to portable explicit music, and TV, and still see that a kid having a smartphone truly might be something worse than what came before. As in this time it really is different.
When I was a kid I had Saturday morning cartoons, but was bored a lot. Video games existed, but you got bored of those fast and rarely got new ones. We went outside a lot. Kids these days (as well as adults) have access to 24/7 dopamine hits. That doesn't mean we're in the end times, but I don't think humans were meant to live in our own curated digital bubbles. People are now less used to socializing in person and it seems to be causing exacerbated feelings of loneliness and depression.
Of course my father complained whenever I wasn't hard at work, but the difference seems to be the magnitude of the modern problem. At times I think humanity is rapidly evolving into something else and the physical bodies we have can't keep up. I can't imagine the next thousand years of progress.
When I was a kid I had Saturday morning cartoons, but was bored a lot. Video games existed, but you got bored of those fast and rarely got new ones. We went outside a lot. Kids these days (as well as adults) have access to 24/7 dopamine hits. That doesn't mean we're in the end times, but I don't think humans were meant to live in our own curated digital bubbles. People are now less used to socializing in person and it seems to be causing exacerbated feelings of loneliness and depression.
Of course my father complained whenever I wasn't hard at work, but the difference seems to be the magnitude of the modern problem. At times I think humanity is rapidly evolving into something else and the physical bodies we have can't keep up. I can't imagine the next thousand years of progress.
Every time is different. Worse, I'll have to see.
What I'll be surprised by is if kids can survive the black death and the second World War and not a smartphone in their pocket.
What I'll be surprised by is if kids can survive the black death and the second World War and not a smartphone in their pocket.
Valid points. I will say though that this new era of instant gratification: smartphones, streaming services, engaging/addicting video games...etc is leading to large amounts of people choosing to not have kids. Heck, forget the having kids...people aren't even dating at the same levels as historical norms it would seem. Birth rates are below the replacement level in many countries already and that is concerning. Maybe we just drop back to older population levels after a sharp adjustment period.
The smartphone in their pocket connects them to services designed by psychologists to keep them engaged for as long as possible. I can't think of a historic analogue.
Technology development appears to follow an exponential curve while human psychological development has remained relatively static.
It is entirely possible that without equivalent biological change, the attack upon the human spirit by various forms of media will become critical and at some point the kids really will not be alright.
It is entirely possible that without equivalent biological change, the attack upon the human spirit by various forms of media will become critical and at some point the kids really will not be alright.
What other explanation is there for the evidence we have that teenage girls in many counties across the globe report being more anxious and depressed and also are admitted into emergency services for self harm at a higher and increasing rate each year with an inflection point in 2012 specifically?
This is a pretty underrated comment. Yeah we've had world wars and stuff, but never some kind of service that makes young women hate themselves to such a degree. In my day they had the teen magazines, but not the 24/7 feed of polished celebrity faces and people with filters and stuff.
Bollocks, honestly.
When I was 23, I had a girlfriend turning 20. At her birthday party, her friends were talking earnestly about how "depressing" [sic] it was to turn 20. Then one of them pointed at me and said with obvious consolation, "well, at least we're not old like Richard!". When I turned 28 I felt depressed about being old. I went to sit by the river with a friend, and one of his friends who came too had just turned 23. I sighed internally, "oh to be young again, to be just 23!". Shortly after I went to my great aunt's birthday party. She was turning 85. She asked me how old I was. When I told her, she said, "28! A mere spring chicken!".
From that point on, I decided never to care about how old I was. For 95% of your life, possibly more, there is someone who thinks you are old, and someone who thinks you are young. Don't think about it, work on the assumption you're young enough to do whatever you want, and give it a shot. You're really only old when you're dead.
Yeah this is the perspective to have. If we ever want to feel young again we can go visit with older relatives.
What I fear is the day when I have no more older relatives. I hope I can be as serene about aging as my grandparents, who are in their 90s and have very few of even their friends left, nevermind relatives.
What I fear is the day when I have no more older relatives. I hope I can be as serene about aging as my grandparents, who are in their 90s and have very few of even their friends left, nevermind relatives.
I'm 48 and one thing I universally notice, among my friends, is that they don't understand that GAME OVER is near and they should hurry up and do what the want to do. Instead they still feel like they are young, taking me sometimes for crazy for saying: now we are old, there are, if we are lucky, 20, 30 good years ahead of us. So let's use them at our best.
Often the wants dissipate over time. One craves sleeping in, having a coffee and not arguing with your spouse. Sure if you push people they might confess about abandoned dreams, but my experience is that most people over 45 are quite content. Maybe it’s a Swedish thing.
Can relate to both. There aren’t a lot of winters left where I’ll be able to ski. The future no longer feels infinite. I do not have all of the time in the world to do the things I enjoy. But, and my younger self would be very upset with me, I am very happily done with the hussle.
> But these days, there’s nothing lovelier than a Saturday morning with a bit of jazz or classical playing, pottering about the kitchen, and then being tucked up in bed before 10pm. Wild.
Play with the dogs. Smoke some weed, a nice meal and play cards with the wife. Don’t need much more.
> But these days, there’s nothing lovelier than a Saturday morning with a bit of jazz or classical playing, pottering about the kitchen, and then being tucked up in bed before 10pm. Wild.
Play with the dogs. Smoke some weed, a nice meal and play cards with the wife. Don’t need much more.
It’s definitely a Swedish thing. I have some friends there and have visited your country, and the quality of life is incredible and people seem very happy, even if they don’t outwardly show it (people also seemed very private).
I lived in a nearby country for a couple of years and very quickly, the culture of Northern Europe pulled me in. People still want to improve themselves and their communities, they work hard at things they value, but don’t seem to be too bothered by small details or things outside of their control. It’s a very healthy culture - something I can’t say about the current state of my country (USA).
I lived in a nearby country for a couple of years and very quickly, the culture of Northern Europe pulled me in. People still want to improve themselves and their communities, they work hard at things they value, but don’t seem to be too bothered by small details or things outside of their control. It’s a very healthy culture - something I can’t say about the current state of my country (USA).
I think I’d choose that over the more American version of panicking when you’re 48 due to not hitting some culturally driven metric of success. An example of desire causing needless suffering.
I definitely have fewer wants, though they tend to be more expensive (guitars). I notice that a lot of things I used to really enjoy kind of fall flat for me now, notably metal concerts and video games. Still like both of them a lot, but they don't do as much for me.
The things I want tend to be hard to buy in the first place: autonomy/independence of time, more time with my parents, better skills as a musician, a more kind and patient heart. I think at some point I developed a taste for the long game, the type where there is no limit on improvement.
The things I want tend to be hard to buy in the first place: autonomy/independence of time, more time with my parents, better skills as a musician, a more kind and patient heart. I think at some point I developed a taste for the long game, the type where there is no limit on improvement.
> and not arguing with your spouse
I dunno, man. "Gray divorce" is rising, and I don't think Sweden is an exception to that.
I dunno, man. "Gray divorce" is rising, and I don't think Sweden is an exception to that.
Maybe that's because these people don't want to argue with their spouse, and these couples are unable to achieve that.
I would argue that the sentiment
>> GAME OVER is near and they should hurry up
still lacks the maturity that comes with age. Or take it as a compliment - you are not there yet. Taking this too seriously also diminishes the quality of our brief existence
>> GAME OVER is near and they should hurry up
still lacks the maturity that comes with age. Or take it as a compliment - you are not there yet. Taking this too seriously also diminishes the quality of our brief existence
I don't think it hurts to remind oneself sometimes that "today, I'm the youngest I'll ever be for the rest of my life..."
> there are, if we are lucky, 20, 30 good years ahead of us
Not sure about that. You should expect serious health issues to start between 65 and 75. That doesn't mean your good years are behind you. You're in "running out the clock mode" when your mind goes and you physically can't do things like walking without assistance. That's late 90s for the lucky ones.
Not sure about that. You should expect serious health issues to start between 65 and 75. That doesn't mean your good years are behind you. You're in "running out the clock mode" when your mind goes and you physically can't do things like walking without assistance. That's late 90s for the lucky ones.
"If we are lucky." For some, it's even earlier.
In my high school text chat of 5 people now in their mid 50s, 1 is a leukemia survivor, 1 has various chronic health conditions associated with PTSD, and 1 is about to have a quadruple bypass.
3 spouses also have serious health challenges, including cancer and organ transplant.
6 out of 10 with major health issues. Mid freaking 50s.
Wondering when my number is going to come up.
In my high school text chat of 5 people now in their mid 50s, 1 is a leukemia survivor, 1 has various chronic health conditions associated with PTSD, and 1 is about to have a quadruple bypass.
3 spouses also have serious health challenges, including cancer and organ transplant.
6 out of 10 with major health issues. Mid freaking 50s.
Wondering when my number is going to come up.
My small town newspaper has about 3-4 obituaries a week. Most of them used to be my grandparents' generation. Now most of them are my parents' age, but an uncomfortable number are my age.
The first girl I ever danced with (8th grade, "Beth" by Kiss) died a few years ago of some medical condition. A neighbor who was a few years behind me in school died last year. Had a headache, told his family he was going to lie down, had a stroke there on the couch. Yeah, you start thinking about it.
The first girl I ever danced with (8th grade, "Beth" by Kiss) died a few years ago of some medical condition. A neighbor who was a few years behind me in school died last year. Had a headache, told his family he was going to lie down, had a stroke there on the couch. Yeah, you start thinking about it.
> My small town newspaper has about 3-4 obituaries a week. Most of them used to be my grandparents' generation. Now most of them are my parents' age, but an uncomfortable number are my age.
Isn't a lot of this due to drug overdoses? It's not like people in their 40s are more often starting to drop dead from strokes and heart attacks.
Isn't a lot of this due to drug overdoses? It's not like people in their 40s are more often starting to drop dead from strokes and heart attacks.
Out of my 8 people that were in my college crew and we graduated 1995-1996: one is in great shape and is a fitness instructor, I’m in above average shape, 3 never work out, two have passed and one has disappeared. He was morbidly obese in college (not a judgement or insult, just a fact). The rest of see each other once or twice a year, we went to college in our home town so we all have family there
This is all true, but heart surgery is one example where you have a serious health issue, yet (probably) many good years ahead of you. It'll limit your ability to do physical things like climbing mountains. It won't stop you from having an enjoyable life or accomplishing meaningful things.
Making use of one's years is a good mentality, but the idea that "GAME OVER is near" in your 40s is a bit overdramatic, barring being hit by the proverbial bus, getting terminal cancer, having a heart attack, or something along those lines. 30 years is a long time . . . at worst, you have half your adult life still left to live, if not more than half.
Well, 48 is 50ish more than 40s, but I understand what you mean: I believe that if I would not enter such mentality ASAP I wouldn't do many things I'm doing in recent years. To trigger it too late, is too late: a constant I see in creative challenges is that you need to have physical strength to write code, write a book, do traveling with family, ...
It does not help that many have kids later in their lifes nowodays and they are highschoolers when they hit that 50. (+ having first one late means having the second one even later)
(btw I did try to tell friends similarly that half way is at around 35-40, don't look at 50 as start of the B side)
(btw I did try to tell friends similarly that half way is at around 35-40, don't look at 50 as start of the B side)
I'm about to turn 40 and only this year it hit me that maybe my wildest dreams of success won't come true, and that I don't have eternity to try it. This gave me a terrible sense of emergency, and I'm working like crazy and also much more focused.
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Our conversations amongst ourselves turn to our ailments. The bell curve of people that pass before you do starts to accelerate. My skin, with the help of the sun, has twice tried to -KILL- me.
But the biggie were the veins in my legs. The valves are giving out, my feet are too far from my heart. 15% of my blood isn't getting properly oxygenated.
And then I got that taken care of. A procedure for a thing my father had (he passed 20 years ago)...and I'm really sad he didn't experience it.
Because the treatment made my feel 15 years younger. My balance is better (a factor of the nerves now getting oxygen), my foot and knee stopped hurting....and what gets me is both how much BETTER I feel, but that it was my body WEARING OUT.
Wilfred Brimley (a name that dates me merely by mentioning it) was my age in Cocoon (look it up, kids)...that was where all the old, used up, worn out people found rejuvenation.
I don't feel that old...doubly so now that my circulation has improved.
But you and I both know of 90 year olds that are 'younger' than some 60 year olds.
But the biggie were the veins in my legs. The valves are giving out, my feet are too far from my heart. 15% of my blood isn't getting properly oxygenated.
And then I got that taken care of. A procedure for a thing my father had (he passed 20 years ago)...and I'm really sad he didn't experience it.
Because the treatment made my feel 15 years younger. My balance is better (a factor of the nerves now getting oxygen), my foot and knee stopped hurting....and what gets me is both how much BETTER I feel, but that it was my body WEARING OUT.
Wilfred Brimley (a name that dates me merely by mentioning it) was my age in Cocoon (look it up, kids)...that was where all the old, used up, worn out people found rejuvenation.
I don't feel that old...doubly so now that my circulation has improved.
But you and I both know of 90 year olds that are 'younger' than some 60 year olds.
> But you and I both know of 90 year olds that are 'younger' than some 60 year olds.
I once had a rough hike at Half Dome that went deep into the early morning hours (a friend, who was an experienced alpine climber, made the horrible decision to bring his girlfriend at the time who had never even been on a hike before but was "in shape," and so they thought it would "be fine" -- it was NOT) and it was a total mess. We make it back to the trailhead around 2AM and a van pulls in. A 95 year old woman got out with her support team, they were starting the hike up so she could catch the sunrise from Half Dome.
I once had a rough hike at Half Dome that went deep into the early morning hours (a friend, who was an experienced alpine climber, made the horrible decision to bring his girlfriend at the time who had never even been on a hike before but was "in shape," and so they thought it would "be fine" -- it was NOT) and it was a total mess. We make it back to the trailhead around 2AM and a van pulls in. A 95 year old woman got out with her support team, they were starting the hike up so she could catch the sunrise from Half Dome.
I'm curious, what is wrong with the veins in your legs, more exactly? My dad, 68, has periphery artery disease and, well, it sucks.
There's something like 6 one way valves that let your heart pump the blood out of your leg a little bit at a time. When they wear out, there's not enough pumping action at times to replace the blood as often as necessary. (also, the veins aren't rated for the pressure, which is why they blow out, and you get varicose or spider veins.)
But there are alternate paths for the blood to flow. If you mangle the larger deep veins, the blood will still circulate out secondary paths. And literally the next day, my foot was pink, and I wasn't winded climbing the stairs, and my legs weren't lead weights by the end of the day.
But there are alternate paths for the blood to flow. If you mangle the larger deep veins, the blood will still circulate out secondary paths. And literally the next day, my foot was pink, and I wasn't winded climbing the stairs, and my legs weren't lead weights by the end of the day.
> There's something like 6 one way valves that let your heart pump the blood out of your leg a little bit at a time. When they wear out, there's not enough pumping action at times to replace the blood as often as necessary.
Shouldn't we be able to replace them with man-made ones as they fail, like already it's possible to do with heart valves[1]?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_heart_valve
Shouldn't we be able to replace them with man-made ones as they fail, like already it's possible to do with heart valves[1]?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_heart_valve
Quite possibly. The procedure they performed on me is already in at least the 3rd major iteration. Originally they'd replace the vein with cadaver veins...then they used wires to...ahem...catch and rip out the old vein.
They used a catheter on me using RF to ablate the vein so it would no longer flow blood. Recovery was quick. (Wear support stockings for a week, you can move around as normal the next day...don't run a marathon or lift weights.)
It was _very_ low impact.
They used a catheter on me using RF to ablate the vein so it would no longer flow blood. Recovery was quick. (Wear support stockings for a week, you can move around as normal the next day...don't run a marathon or lift weights.)
It was _very_ low impact.
I am 53 and I have 2 teenage children and work with mostly Millennials and Gen Z, and I can honestly say I prefer hanging out with people younger than me. I have dinner/drinks with various friend groups consisting of 50-60 yr olds and all they seem to do is complain about the following: Health, Politics, Younger People. And the conversation inevitably turns to telling stories of the glory days. When when I am with younger people, I see there is still hope, ambition and energy. I know it’s all part of the aging process but many of these older friends are reluctant to leave their little domains and try anything new. I feel like a 35-year-old trapped in a 50 year old’s body.
A lot of people over 40 are burdened - kids, soccer practice. My wife and I at 49/50 are empty nesters, I “retired her” at 44 she is pursuing her passion projects, I work remotely and we are always traveling, gone for extended periods.
We are also gym rats. We have friends that join on us our trips when they can. But no one in our cohort has the complete freedom of movement that we have.
The older retired people that have the freedom we have are too (small “c”) conservative and don’t have to deal with us and I am not about to use a filter when I go on vacation or hanging out.
We also have friends where one works remotely. But the other still has to be in an office. We kind of have to live our lives to our own music.
My parents are 80 and 82 and they are independent now. But I realize the day is going to come where we’re going to have to responsibilities for awhile.
We are also gym rats. We have friends that join on us our trips when they can. But no one in our cohort has the complete freedom of movement that we have.
The older retired people that have the freedom we have are too (small “c”) conservative and don’t have to deal with us and I am not about to use a filter when I go on vacation or hanging out.
We also have friends where one works remotely. But the other still has to be in an office. We kind of have to live our lives to our own music.
My parents are 80 and 82 and they are independent now. But I realize the day is going to come where we’re going to have to responsibilities for awhile.
I feel the opposite, hahah! I'm about that age, and I feel I relate less and less to people 10-20 years younger than me, and more and more to people 10-20 years older. To make a probably unfair and way-too-broad generalization: the Millennials I know (like the parents of my kid's friends at school) are kind of... aloof at best and self-absorbed at worst. When the kids play together, those parents never make an attempt to socialize or be pleasant. They're either buried in their phones or they just drop their kids off and skedaddle. The grandparents on the other hand are a blast to hang around with. Social, friendly, engaged, and interested. I feel I have a lot more in common with them, too.
I turned 50 last year. I'm biased to glass half full rather than half empty. I noticed a lot of my friends mentally checked out around their forties already. I've been trying to not do that. Fifty is just a number. It doesn't mean anything. There's less left of your life every day after you get born. Some die young, some die old. I could die tomorrow, I could go on existing for another fifty years. I'm an optimist. So, glass half full and plenty left to do and experience. There is a bit of urgency to get shit done because the clock is ticking. You do get more aware of that as you get older.
You don't really get wiser as you age. Just scarred by experience. It takes me longer to do some of the things I used to do quicker. And I'm also doing things that I wouldn't have been able to do earlier in my life because you learn a lot as you progress through the years. It's a mixed bag.
I actually like what I do professionally. So, I'm not looking forward to retiring. I'm actually kind of dreading having to do that because of physical limitations or being regarded too old by others. I plan to stay active as long as I can. Regardless of financials. What comes after that is basically waiting to die. Nice if you can make that enjoyable and stretch it a bit. But for most people that's not a huge part of their life, or the best. Or what defines them for others when they are gone.
You don't really get wiser as you age. Just scarred by experience. It takes me longer to do some of the things I used to do quicker. And I'm also doing things that I wouldn't have been able to do earlier in my life because you learn a lot as you progress through the years. It's a mixed bag.
I actually like what I do professionally. So, I'm not looking forward to retiring. I'm actually kind of dreading having to do that because of physical limitations or being regarded too old by others. I plan to stay active as long as I can. Regardless of financials. What comes after that is basically waiting to die. Nice if you can make that enjoyable and stretch it a bit. But for most people that's not a huge part of their life, or the best. Or what defines them for others when they are gone.
I like Benjamin Franklin's approach for making lists of his faults and then working to correct them. The idea is to reach perfection on the day of your death.
I work on my list of faults every day.
I work on my list of faults every day.
Doesn't sound very healthy, tbh. Also takes an extraordinary amount of courage to be that confident in your own assuredly-flawed judgement. All it takes is one person changing your mind to ruin your life.
Sorry, that doesn't make much sense.
Which part is the antecedent of "that" here? I made three distinct claims. Happy to explain more if you clue me in to what doesn't make sense.
I don't get how one person ruins my life by changing my mind.
Well, if you've devoted a significant part of your life to neurotically analyzing your own actions in order to comply with a certain set of values, changing one of those values will naturally imply reevaluating of much of your life. I think realistic expectations of yourself for not living up to your own values is important to maintain basic resilience.
Not to mention, we all have behavior that's fundamentally contradictory to our values. At least, IMO.
Not to mention, we all have behavior that's fundamentally contradictory to our values. At least, IMO.
Not at all. It's more like finding bugs, fixing bugs. It would be foolish to not course-correct when realizing you're making a mistake.
A saying that increasingly resonates with me (50's) is that inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.
I think this idea that you become a fundamentally different person as you age is wrong. Things do change - the physical changes of ageing suck, mentally I'm more at peace than I was when I was younger.
But I'm still basically me. I would love for us to solve the problem of physical decrepitude with aging. Even if we lived no longer.
I think this idea that you become a fundamentally different person as you age is wrong. Things do change - the physical changes of ageing suck, mentally I'm more at peace than I was when I was younger.
But I'm still basically me. I would love for us to solve the problem of physical decrepitude with aging. Even if we lived no longer.
> You stop performing. You stop pretending. And that’s freedom.
Reminds me of a talk Ian McKellen gave somewhere, where he says that we're always wearing costumes and acting.
I can relate, I've acted when I was younger, to try to fit in, be acceptable, make friends.
A while ago I stopped caring. I have no friends on earth, and I'm fine with it. The few times I tried to connect with people while allowing myself to fully be myself, it never worked.
I wonder if they were still just acting.
Reminds me of a talk Ian McKellen gave somewhere, where he says that we're always wearing costumes and acting.
I can relate, I've acted when I was younger, to try to fit in, be acceptable, make friends.
A while ago I stopped caring. I have no friends on earth, and I'm fine with it. The few times I tried to connect with people while allowing myself to fully be myself, it never worked.
I wonder if they were still just acting.
You might like Impro: Improvisation and the Theatre by Johnstone, if you've not already read it.
It all of: lays bare the "masks" we wear and the "status games" we play in everyday life; explains the importance of dropping certain common "masks" and various status-related hang-ups to achieve a child-like egolessness and vulnerability, in order to access real creativity; and, further, the liberating power and social-connectedness creating effects of playing with and in masks and status-games.
It's also a really short book, which doesn't hurt.
(here "masks" and "status games" are terms Johnstone defines for his purposes, but what you can guess from context is probably close enough to his intended usage for this post)
It all of: lays bare the "masks" we wear and the "status games" we play in everyday life; explains the importance of dropping certain common "masks" and various status-related hang-ups to achieve a child-like egolessness and vulnerability, in order to access real creativity; and, further, the liberating power and social-connectedness creating effects of playing with and in masks and status-games.
It's also a really short book, which doesn't hurt.
(here "masks" and "status games" are terms Johnstone defines for his purposes, but what you can guess from context is probably close enough to his intended usage for this post)
Have you considered you might be neurodivergent, and need similarly neurodivergent friends?
I'm not, but I see how it sounded that way. I'm just picky lately. I can relate to most people on at least something, and can make friends easily. I don't struggle with that. I just don't care about those interests enough to put the effort in lately, and I have few circumstances tying me to specific people anymore (neighbors, coworkers, family, etc). Maybe it's because of where I am in life, and my current responsibilities. [edit] For example, when it seems like you're near the end of your life, you think much more about bigger picture things, like your own mortality, the past and future, what mark you did or didn't leave on the world, love, truth, beauty, goodness, and a lot of heavy things that people generally don't want to talk or think about when they're in their prime and want to enjoy it.
I think community is a (the?) source of joy, and it‘s unfortunate you‘re having these issues. And I wouldn’t just blame it on being picky, there could be root causes for this that are not obvious - like burnout, other mental issues, brain health issues. Not all can be fixed of course.
I'm just old.
The older I get, the more I've come to appreciate that "old" doesn't mean much. There are people in their late 30s that act like the median 60-year old. There are people in their 60s that act like the median 40-year old. Some people are inactive, less curious, and opposed to change early on. Others are active, curious, and always learning and growing even in their 70s.
I'm 69, starting a cofounder search for a new venture in the blockchain space. I don't feel any less capable than I was. I suppose I may have a bit of acquired "wisdom". I'm wondering how much ageism will be in my way.
I've lived through a lot. Had some successes; also had cancer (I'm 8 years out from that and my statistical outlook is excellent).
I like to think of people like Clint Eastwood, still capably directing in his 90's, and Eliot Carter, who was still writing chamber music post-100 that gets performed. 69 is nothing.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-robinson-46a66/
I've lived through a lot. Had some successes; also had cancer (I'm 8 years out from that and my statistical outlook is excellent).
I like to think of people like Clint Eastwood, still capably directing in his 90's, and Eliot Carter, who was still writing chamber music post-100 that gets performed. 69 is nothing.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-robinson-46a66/
I’m 50 and have no desire to start my own company. I work remotely, use my unlimited PTO to take 30 days off a year and travel with my wife extensively and we are scouting places in San Jose Costa Rica and Panama City, Panama next year where we can alternate and spend the winters as (the dry season there) and spend the rest of the year in Florida while we continue to cross places off of our bucket list.
I have nothing left to prove to myself. I have worked at 60 person startups all the way to BigTech - no longer there.
I definitely don’t plan to be grinding at 68.
I have nothing left to prove to myself. I have worked at 60 person startups all the way to BigTech - no longer there.
I definitely don’t plan to be grinding at 68.
I wouldn't be grinding at 69 either! It has to be a matter of feeling like it's a form of self-expression.
If you feel your mode of expressing yourself is to travel, etc., then that's fantastic too.
If you feel your mode of expressing yourself is to travel, etc., then that's fantastic too.
In the 1980s, I very much took to heart Grace Hopper’s advice that it’s easier to apologize than to get permission. This suited 20-something me just fine.
Now I’m more in the camp of “Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment”.
Now I’m more in the camp of “Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment”.
I am 54 and have tendonitis for two weeks after moving, so bad that I can barely lift a full coffee mug with my strong arm.
I moved three times two years ago with zero issues.
Also went to the ER with atrial fibrillation a year ago and now have a prostate cancer scare.
Also lost both parents in the last two years.
Age 44 was paradise compared to this.
I moved three times two years ago with zero issues.
Also went to the ER with atrial fibrillation a year ago and now have a prostate cancer scare.
Also lost both parents in the last two years.
Age 44 was paradise compared to this.
I had a near-death health emergency 5 years ago in my late 30s, which turned out to be due to a chronic but perfectly manageable set of conditions I didn't know I had been developing.
Part of that management is a commitment to healthy living: daily vigorous exercise, dietary restrictions, and sleep optimization. I was on and off in shape before then, but the motivation to avoid sliding into a very marked decline due to those conditions has resulted in my achieving better health and higher fitness now in my early 40s than I had for most of my 30s (even some of my 20s), and the numbers don't lie.
Ceteris paribus, if I had adopted this lifestyle in my 20s and 30s I'd probably have then outperformed my current self, and I certainly cannot recover as quickly now from overexertion, but that's besides the point. Do we look at people in their 20s with cystic fibrosis or in 30s with multiple sclerosis and say they're doing "better" than the average person in their 40s or 50s optimizing their health?
Part of that management is a commitment to healthy living: daily vigorous exercise, dietary restrictions, and sleep optimization. I was on and off in shape before then, but the motivation to avoid sliding into a very marked decline due to those conditions has resulted in my achieving better health and higher fitness now in my early 40s than I had for most of my 30s (even some of my 20s), and the numbers don't lie.
Ceteris paribus, if I had adopted this lifestyle in my 20s and 30s I'd probably have then outperformed my current self, and I certainly cannot recover as quickly now from overexertion, but that's besides the point. Do we look at people in their 20s with cystic fibrosis or in 30s with multiple sclerosis and say they're doing "better" than the average person in their 40s or 50s optimizing their health?
> often blamed for the world’s problems or pitted against younger generations
Generation pitting is a red herring. Divide and conquer has always been a useful technique to distract from the real causes, usually by those behind them.
Generation pitting is a red herring. Divide and conquer has always been a useful technique to distract from the real causes, usually by those behind them.
Thinking there are too down causes is also a red herring. It’s organic behavior all the way up.
I remember how shocked I was when my buddy got divorced and said, "There. This is a midlife crisis situation. All I need now is a red sports car."
And I said, "Midlife?"
And he replied, "Yeah dude. We're literally in the middle of our life expectancy."
That's when it dawned on me. I had gotten married just the year before. I also became a father at the same age my own father was when I left home for college. The interesting thing is that my timeline matches those in my social-economic cohort. It seems like in that cohort, we are hitting our life stages a lot later than previous generations so there is a discrepancy between our physical age and how it feels to some of us.
And I said, "Midlife?"
And he replied, "Yeah dude. We're literally in the middle of our life expectancy."
That's when it dawned on me. I had gotten married just the year before. I also became a father at the same age my own father was when I left home for college. The interesting thing is that my timeline matches those in my social-economic cohort. It seems like in that cohort, we are hitting our life stages a lot later than previous generations so there is a discrepancy between our physical age and how it feels to some of us.
I am as old today as my dad was when my older sister had a kid, and he became a grandfather for the first time. I was a junior in college that year.
And I still think we had kids early with ours in middle school. I can't imagine being half my age with kids.
And I still think we had kids early with ours in middle school. I can't imagine being half my age with kids.
The good stuff, if you're lucky, is that you figure out what you want and care a lot less about what other people think (except at 2am when one likes to ponder embarrassing incidents across the decades).
The bad stuff, unless you're lucky, is that people you love keep dying all the fucking time.
I believe they call it "the human condition" ... but then I'm only in my 50s, so I guess we'll see?
The bad stuff, unless you're lucky, is that people you love keep dying all the fucking time.
I believe they call it "the human condition" ... but then I'm only in my 50s, so I guess we'll see?
You know you are old when you look out the kitchen window, see it is raining, and think to yourself, "This is good for the garden".
Or maybe you're just someone into gardening.
I'm 50 and my life isn't what I wanted it to be, and now I'm out of time. It sucks.
You know, setting expectations for yourself when you're young for what you want your life to be when you're old is great, but it can be a bit like providing estimates for how long a project will take when you have barely started it.
You made an estimate when you had the least amount of information. Now that you have accumulated more information, the most productive course of action is to revise the estimate and work towards to meet that goal.
You made an estimate when you had the least amount of information. Now that you have accumulated more information, the most productive course of action is to revise the estimate and work towards to meet that goal.
I don't know what's going on in your specific case but:
1. It's never out of time, for sure. If you want to make a specific change, study the pros/cons and decide whether to do it or not! But you can for sure make the change you want to.
2. Don't fall into the trap of idealizing a life you don't have. The grass is significantly less green than you might think at the other side of the fence.
1. It's never out of time, for sure. If you want to make a specific change, study the pros/cons and decide whether to do it or not! But you can for sure make the change you want to.
2. Don't fall into the trap of idealizing a life you don't have. The grass is significantly less green than you might think at the other side of the fence.
I don't think this helps as much as you may think it does. Some things can't be undone once done and they make people's lives much worse.
It may, or may not sound convincing. It's true that some things cannot be undone, and we may feel regret or remorse for them. Still, there's a path for healing and liberation by understanding under which circumstances and which assumptions you took that decission, understanding that sometimes life is hard, and that you're worth it.
I don't know this specific case though, and I guess neither do you. If the parent comment wants to come back with some details, I'll reflect on it.
I don't know this specific case though, and I guess neither do you. If the parent comment wants to come back with some details, I'll reflect on it.
Feels.
Not gonna blow condescending garbage your way. Your feeling is not unique but not in the majority, and it’s exhausting to hear the ‘have’ ppl with no actual ability to relate jabber on.
Hope you can find bits of joy where you can make them.
Not gonna blow condescending garbage your way. Your feeling is not unique but not in the majority, and it’s exhausting to hear the ‘have’ ppl with no actual ability to relate jabber on.
Hope you can find bits of joy where you can make them.
I believe the only way to be content is to enjoy the fighting. Then, whatever life throw at you, it doesn't really matter.
Judging our lives by a set of accomplishments feels artificial when you think about it.
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But everyone around me is accomplished and successful.
My life looks accomplished and successful from the outside, but I'm totally depressed and see no way out. You never know what is the true situation for everyone around you.
Others come in all variety and are all part of the background. The idea is to see life as a solo challenge; Don't compare yourself with others but with that version of you who is not fighting back.
Read some Oliver Burkeman.
I laugh at 20 somethings that consider mid/late 30's as "old." Blink and you'll be here too with the same receding hairline, pal.
My body of course is slowing down, to some degree my mind, but I very much feel like a 20 year old at heart and don't imagine that will change. I do at some point probably need to stop living like one, though.
My body of course is slowing down, to some degree my mind, but I very much feel like a 20 year old at heart and don't imagine that will change. I do at some point probably need to stop living like one, though.
My grandpa died at 102. Up until the day he died he would consistently say that it was weird being in a body that couldn't do what he wanted it to do. He always said that he was 24 in his head, and that was consistent from the year he was 24 until the day he died.
It's. I don't know. Scary? Weird? Sort of like an odd out-of-body in small doses to consider how I feel inside. When I think that I'm still 22, but the room full of people is looking at me for guidance because I'm the wise old person. It's strange. The first time that happened, a young man and his girlfriend had crashed their car into a ditch. No injuries, but the tailpipe was off of the car. We were working to fix it, and I realized halfway through that they were looking to me for guidance. Meanwhile, inside, I was thinking 'when will the adult get here to take care of this'.
Strange thoughts. But I feel like they're probably universal for humans in some fashion.
It's. I don't know. Scary? Weird? Sort of like an odd out-of-body in small doses to consider how I feel inside. When I think that I'm still 22, but the room full of people is looking at me for guidance because I'm the wise old person. It's strange. The first time that happened, a young man and his girlfriend had crashed their car into a ditch. No injuries, but the tailpipe was off of the car. We were working to fix it, and I realized halfway through that they were looking to me for guidance. Meanwhile, inside, I was thinking 'when will the adult get here to take care of this'.
Strange thoughts. But I feel like they're probably universal for humans in some fashion.
Hah, I think being a parent is one way people get slowly trained into thinking of themselves as the adult finally. You kind of have to fake knowing a lot of stuff just to give confidence to your kids that they are safe and in good hands.
It certainly can be an odd feeling though when other adults look at you that way, but it comes with the gray hair and wrinkles.
It certainly can be an odd feeling though when other adults look at you that way, but it comes with the gray hair and wrinkles.
For me, I feel like many of the thrills that I experienced in my 20s are mostly gone. It gets old after you've had your thousandth expensive cocktail or your hundredth wrecked morning from going to bed at 4am.
I still very much enjoy those things, don't get me wrong; it's just not as OMG as it was in my 20s.
There's also the money factor. Much of my 20s was spent doing more with less. Exchange/Zimbra servers with PCs people threw away. Fighting with kexts at 3am so that I could get Wi-Fi working on OS X Tiger on my old Windows laptop. Waiting 30 minutes for the off-peak N train at 01:00 after drinking too much. That sort of thing.
I can afford comfort now. I pay for Fastmail. I have all of the Apple kit. When I'm doing something late at night in NYC, I take an Uber. That's been the best part of getting old for me.
Despite all of this, I think you're only as old as you feel. Example. This dude entered my powerlifting gym the other day. He was easily in his 80s. He asked me when the next powerlifting meet was.
I didn't know and couldn't help him, but I definitely knew that he is what I want to be when I grow up.
(An aside. One thing I'm really glad I learned recently is how to enjoy pacing drinks.
It takes me an hour to drink a good old fashioned, or even a shot of whiskey with some ice. A heavy bourbon barrel aged stout is an actual two hour session for me.
I was forced into doing this because of GERD, which is more under control now, but being able to really enjoy my drinks without getting drunk or destroying my sleep quality is a great acquired benefit.
Another benefit from doing this is realizing that staying out late is ONLY possible if you're going to drink a lot.
It's harder to drink a lot when you drink slowly, so you ultimately become the "old guy" that ducks at 20:00.
Given that I've done so many late nights out, I'm okay with that trade-off!)
I still very much enjoy those things, don't get me wrong; it's just not as OMG as it was in my 20s.
There's also the money factor. Much of my 20s was spent doing more with less. Exchange/Zimbra servers with PCs people threw away. Fighting with kexts at 3am so that I could get Wi-Fi working on OS X Tiger on my old Windows laptop. Waiting 30 minutes for the off-peak N train at 01:00 after drinking too much. That sort of thing.
I can afford comfort now. I pay for Fastmail. I have all of the Apple kit. When I'm doing something late at night in NYC, I take an Uber. That's been the best part of getting old for me.
Despite all of this, I think you're only as old as you feel. Example. This dude entered my powerlifting gym the other day. He was easily in his 80s. He asked me when the next powerlifting meet was.
I didn't know and couldn't help him, but I definitely knew that he is what I want to be when I grow up.
(An aside. One thing I'm really glad I learned recently is how to enjoy pacing drinks.
It takes me an hour to drink a good old fashioned, or even a shot of whiskey with some ice. A heavy bourbon barrel aged stout is an actual two hour session for me.
I was forced into doing this because of GERD, which is more under control now, but being able to really enjoy my drinks without getting drunk or destroying my sleep quality is a great acquired benefit.
Another benefit from doing this is realizing that staying out late is ONLY possible if you're going to drink a lot.
It's harder to drink a lot when you drink slowly, so you ultimately become the "old guy" that ducks at 20:00.
Given that I've done so many late nights out, I'm okay with that trade-off!)
I seriously don't know what I would do with myself in my old age if I didn't have a project I had to work on.
In my case it's a couple of programming ideas I like to work on, but I guess building/sewing/music-making/etc. might give other people the same sense of purpose.
In my case it's a couple of programming ideas I like to work on, but I guess building/sewing/music-making/etc. might give other people the same sense of purpose.
I was playing cricket with my friends, who had come as families. I am 43. A particular couple had married recently, and my wife had a small talk with the other player's wife. Because we were playing in the same game as equals, and then having friendly chat the age difference did not come up in our thinking. Also, the physique and my perception of the looks were a bit similar too. But casually, when I learnt about the age, I realised that they were 20 years younger to me. I had already started college when they were born has babies. This comparison led to think a bit differently when having a perception about people and time. It was an interesting realization for me.
I just hit 60. For the past 3 or so years I've always had some physical problem that is longer-term. Most of them are muscle strains (partially torn rotator cuff last year, plantar fascitis before that), and pretty annoying to keep ending up in PT for something new after many years of pretty robust health. Up to a few years ago I was going on 1-2 hour hikes 2-3 times a week and have always been very flexible due to doing yoga at a young age. I can bend over knees straight and put my palms flat on the floor. It's been trying to get into my head that my body just isn't what it used to be.
Personally, I can't indulge in the cliche "getting older" attitude and I have little patience for people who do. I've watched Boomers and GenX talk themselves into being decrepit before their time, a habit that in my mind amounts to self-harm. And I've seen it among my millennial peers starting in our 20's (I'm currently early 40's).
The problem is, aging as I have experienced it bears virtually no relation to the aging that Boomers (and the media) insisted we would endure. I look around at my friend group and dating pool and I see people in the prime of their lives: full of energy, not totally stupid anymore, and usually with a decent career figured out. Boomers at that same juncture in their own lives were self-identifying as "over the hill" and obsessing over retirement.
I'd go as far as to say that one the happiest surprises of my life so far has been learning how the aging I was raised to fear is almost entirely a myth. (not to say it was a myth for older generations, who did live and age in a somewhat rougher world)
The problem is, aging as I have experienced it bears virtually no relation to the aging that Boomers (and the media) insisted we would endure. I look around at my friend group and dating pool and I see people in the prime of their lives: full of energy, not totally stupid anymore, and usually with a decent career figured out. Boomers at that same juncture in their own lives were self-identifying as "over the hill" and obsessing over retirement.
I'd go as far as to say that one the happiest surprises of my life so far has been learning how the aging I was raised to fear is almost entirely a myth. (not to say it was a myth for older generations, who did live and age in a somewhat rougher world)
> (I'm currently early 40's). ... I'd go as far as to say that one the happiest surprises of my life so far has been learning how the aging I was raised to fear is almost entirely a myth.
Let's talk again when you're in your 60s.
> I see people in the prime of their lives: full of energy, not totally stupid anymore, and usually with a decent career figured out
Yes, you're currently at your peak earning years. That starts to change when you get into your 50s and 60s and nobody wants to hire you anymore. Enjoy your life now.
Let's talk again when you're in your 60s.
> I see people in the prime of their lives: full of energy, not totally stupid anymore, and usually with a decent career figured out
Yes, you're currently at your peak earning years. That starts to change when you get into your 50s and 60s and nobody wants to hire you anymore. Enjoy your life now.
I suspect expectations of retirement had to be level set to account for the reduced standard of living / the necessity to work longer.
Everyone is their current age for the first time.
It's almost a tautology, but when I remember it, I feel more dignified about my age and more empathetic for others' age anxiety.
It's almost a tautology, but when I remember it, I feel more dignified about my age and more empathetic for others' age anxiety.
This might sound silly but I did have a specific moment where I realized “oh I am a ‘mister’ now”. I was 25 and just walking on a city street. Nothing special was happening, I didn’t overhear anyone talking about age. I just noticed it. Legally I had been an adult for quite some time but I just noticed that I had internalized that.
I somewhat expected to have something similar for “old”. It will of course happen gradually, but I will realize it’s part of what I am suddenly.
I somewhat expected to have something similar for “old”. It will of course happen gradually, but I will realize it’s part of what I am suddenly.
Can't really relate, to be honest. I feel like I'm more or less still the same person I was when I was 4 years old, I just have more evidence to work with now.
I definitely feel ageless most of the time.
Not "kid at heart" in a foolish way like Will Ferrell.
Not "fine wine aged" like Ian McKellen.
I'm just... me
Not "kid at heart" in a foolish way like Will Ferrell.
Not "fine wine aged" like Ian McKellen.
I'm just... me
The one thing I stay cognizant of is that both the opportunities, challenges and strategies to get ahead are different today in technology than when I graduated in 1996. It helps that I was in enterprise/corporate dev until I was in my mid 40s and then fell into BigTech and started talking to and becoming friends with new grads.
I’m not in BigTech now and would rather get an anal probe with a cactus than ever go back. But I’m also not one of these old boomers at 50 who don’t understand why people “grind leetcode” to get into the top paying companies and I recommend they do so.
On that same note, even as late as 2016, I got my house built in the burbs of Atlanta in the good school system for $335K.
That wouldn’t be possible now. I sold it 8 years later for twice the price and moved. But I couldn’t comfortably afford it on what senior enterprise devs still make in Atlanta theses days (I no longer live there and I pivoted slightly from enterprise dev)
I’m not in BigTech now and would rather get an anal probe with a cactus than ever go back. But I’m also not one of these old boomers at 50 who don’t understand why people “grind leetcode” to get into the top paying companies and I recommend they do so.
On that same note, even as late as 2016, I got my house built in the burbs of Atlanta in the good school system for $335K.
That wouldn’t be possible now. I sold it 8 years later for twice the price and moved. But I couldn’t comfortably afford it on what senior enterprise devs still make in Atlanta theses days (I no longer live there and I pivoted slightly from enterprise dev)
Somehow to me it feels like 30 years of programming experience doesn't help one get one of those jobs, either.
It doesn’t help you get a software engineering job at BigTech, I would have had to grind leetCode like everyone else.
It did help me get a job as a mid level “cloud consultant specializing in application development” in AWS Professional Services department. It paid around 10% less than a software engineering (SDE) job (cash + RSUs) and was a “field by design” fully remote job. It was the last category of jobs that were forced to be in an office when not on a client site this year.
There are all sorts of jobs at AWS and GCP like that - solution architects, engagement managers (it helps), pre-sales architects, program managers, etc. Heck you can make more in recruiting or HR at BigTech than you could make as a software developer doing enterprise dev.
I had been gone for a year and half by then. Now I’m doing the same thing, making the same amount (all cash) as a “staff consultant” working full time, remotely at a third party consulting company.
I most likely could work at GCP doing the same thing as a “senior consultant”. But I don’t do BigTech and I definitely don’t do in office jobs.
It did help me get a job as a mid level “cloud consultant specializing in application development” in AWS Professional Services department. It paid around 10% less than a software engineering (SDE) job (cash + RSUs) and was a “field by design” fully remote job. It was the last category of jobs that were forced to be in an office when not on a client site this year.
There are all sorts of jobs at AWS and GCP like that - solution architects, engagement managers (it helps), pre-sales architects, program managers, etc. Heck you can make more in recruiting or HR at BigTech than you could make as a software developer doing enterprise dev.
I had been gone for a year and half by then. Now I’m doing the same thing, making the same amount (all cash) as a “staff consultant” working full time, remotely at a third party consulting company.
I most likely could work at GCP doing the same thing as a “senior consultant”. But I don’t do BigTech and I definitely don’t do in office jobs.
There was a time the only thing in my fridge was a six-pack and a jar of mustard, and now I alphabetize my spices and own three types of salt. Not because I aged, but because I noticed. We used to chase every signal, every glitch in the matrix, now I chase quiet mornings and working power supplies. The trick wasn’t learning to settle down; it was learning what noise to ignore.
53 here. The other day I offhandedly mentioned to my S.O. that I have dirty-blonde hair. "Maybe 20 years ago," she said. "You're squarely in the grey today."
You don't just suddenly see yourself as an old fogie. You feel the same inside; maybe more responsible, more jaded, more self-assured, less neurotic or insecure, but you're still the same. But that mirror and this slowly aging body, man. It will outpace your change in perception of yourself. I tried growing my hair out during COVID and I realized I resembled Ron Jeremy, which horrified me. Having a kid just accelerated my aging and health plummet. It's rough.
But again, there's still, like, an immutable element of you inside.
ON THE BRIGHT SIDE: It has been ABSOLUTELY SPECTACULAR as a technologist to witness the progression of tech over the last 50 years firsthand. And I have a soon-to-be 4 year old kid (and I could frankly be his grandparent) who I will be imparting the age-old wisdom of the 1980's (and a lifetime of tech wisdom) to. =)
You don't just suddenly see yourself as an old fogie. You feel the same inside; maybe more responsible, more jaded, more self-assured, less neurotic or insecure, but you're still the same. But that mirror and this slowly aging body, man. It will outpace your change in perception of yourself. I tried growing my hair out during COVID and I realized I resembled Ron Jeremy, which horrified me. Having a kid just accelerated my aging and health plummet. It's rough.
But again, there's still, like, an immutable element of you inside.
ON THE BRIGHT SIDE: It has been ABSOLUTELY SPECTACULAR as a technologist to witness the progression of tech over the last 50 years firsthand. And I have a soon-to-be 4 year old kid (and I could frankly be his grandparent) who I will be imparting the age-old wisdom of the 1980's (and a lifetime of tech wisdom) to. =)
No, getting old isn't what _you_ think...
In response to:
> I’m turning 50 soon
I'd have to reply with:
> “Add a decade, mate, and then we’ll talk…”
I felt young all through my 50s, and was routinely running 12 to 20 miles/week. But things really took a turn, for the elder, in the first 1/2 of my 60s. This is where I currently sit.
I have older friends who say, STFU, you don't know s1it about old until you're at least in your 70s, and in the modern world most people don't start to feel geriatric until well into their 80s.
We almost need a new age designation between traditional "middle-aged" and "old", sort of like the recent addition of "tween-ager".
My cynicism and skepticism are way up. That's mostly because I actually have seen most emerging trends before. Not the actual tech, but the corporate application of whatever shiny new thing is all gaga at the moment.
The most depressing part, is confirmation that it is nearly impossible for new generations to learn from those ahead. This is mostly confirmed by my own behavior in my youth so closely resembling what I observe in current youth.
Don't worry, wealth is like rust, it never sleeps. And the ever ratcheting vise is clamping down on the young. I'm sure it's all because "old people ruined everything!"
All I can say to that is: STFU...
Actually, I could say a lot more, but no one would listen anyway...
In response to:
> I’m turning 50 soon
I'd have to reply with:
> “Add a decade, mate, and then we’ll talk…”
I felt young all through my 50s, and was routinely running 12 to 20 miles/week. But things really took a turn, for the elder, in the first 1/2 of my 60s. This is where I currently sit.
I have older friends who say, STFU, you don't know s1it about old until you're at least in your 70s, and in the modern world most people don't start to feel geriatric until well into their 80s.
We almost need a new age designation between traditional "middle-aged" and "old", sort of like the recent addition of "tween-ager".
My cynicism and skepticism are way up. That's mostly because I actually have seen most emerging trends before. Not the actual tech, but the corporate application of whatever shiny new thing is all gaga at the moment.
The most depressing part, is confirmation that it is nearly impossible for new generations to learn from those ahead. This is mostly confirmed by my own behavior in my youth so closely resembling what I observe in current youth.
Don't worry, wealth is like rust, it never sleeps. And the ever ratcheting vise is clamping down on the young. I'm sure it's all because "old people ruined everything!"
All I can say to that is: STFU...
Actually, I could say a lot more, but no one would listen anyway...
The first computer I experienced was the Programma 101. Later, learned FORTRAN using punched cards to program, and then paper tape (still remember painful finger cuts). You kids and your fancy LLM-enriched toolset have it so easy. With respect to programming, getting older has been things getting so much better.
“But time makes you bolder/Even children get older/And I'm getting older too.”
-Stevie Nicks, “Landslide”
Getting older for me (66) just means more memories. And I really want to go back, but I can't.
Just a few years younger than you are. I can relate. I guess people could accuse us of being nostalgic for a time that never really existed, and maybe to some extent that's true, but on the other hand I do genuinely think that we've gone off into a very bad timeline. Just compare Jimmy Carter to Donald Trump, for example. Like what the hell happened?
Social media happened
I'm about the same age as the writer and I recall seeing women in heels at Glastonbury over 25 years ago. I'm on the side of sensible shoes on a farm, but it's more atmospheric if people dress up.
Amazing website! Very refreshing to see a well designed page, since most articles submitted here lean towards being minimal.
the lazy load text effect when scrolling is a nice touch.
I thought the opposite, but maybe it's the out-of-date preference of an old man.
Getting older isn't what is used to be.
52 years old here. Getting that age is sometimes relieving. I am not that stupid as back then. Got wealthier too.
So i bought a classic Vespa scooter lately, couldnt have afforded that thing back then.
I love tape decks and record players again, that stuff was also very expensive, now i get it for around 50 € and repair and maintain it myself.
Wisdom comes with age, no matter what profession or job you are working as long as you stay interested.
Whats coming back as boomerang are the stupid decisions i made when i was younger, now i know better and would like to turn back time.
But i think thats pretty normal in all walks of life.
I'm the guy that shows up at co-workers b'days, when they're lamenting getting older, and says, "Ah, to be 50 again."
Give them some perspective before I go back to yelling at clouds.
Give them some perspective before I go back to yelling at clouds.
> this whole ageing conversation has been dominated by the Boomers, often blamed for the world’s problems or pitted against younger generations. A tad unfair.
I'm in my mid-fourties and until recently, it seemed logical & righteous to place blame at the boomers' feet. Today it seems a lazy and naive, ultimately serving to further atomize/neuter the next generation. I expect my comeuppance is imminent. Oh well.
I'm in my mid-fourties and until recently, it seemed logical & righteous to place blame at the boomers' feet. Today it seems a lazy and naive, ultimately serving to further atomize/neuter the next generation. I expect my comeuppance is imminent. Oh well.
> I guess I’m feeling reflective. I’m turning 50 soon.
LoL. Being in my early 60s I guess I'm feeling like this guy felt when the pizza guy in his anecdote said he felt old and wise at 36.
LoL. Being in my early 60s I guess I'm feeling like this guy felt when the pizza guy in his anecdote said he felt old and wise at 36.
Disclaimer: 55 year old here. I've been programming computers since I was 8. I say this only so that it is understood that I have seen multiple generations of humanity acquiring and discarding multiple iterations of technology, and can punctuate my life by the name of the system your parents have in the attic, probably. As a hacker.
Getting old really sneaks up on you. You're having your best years, then you're having some more best years, and then .. suddenly .. you're in the middle of some years that aren't going so great, and well .. things go a bit down-hill from there.
Which is to say don't take your youth for granted. 55 is not 'that' old, but I can count through the decades the souls I've seen come and go, finally. And I know I could soon be among them.
So as I consider how quickly the last 10 years have passed, and how quickly the next 10 years may pass, if at all, I can say this: don't waste your time. Its all you've truly got. Material things come and go and don't mean anything - the people you meet along the way, the wonderful, intelligent and inspiring things you will see - this is what life is providing you.
Don't take it for granted.
Getting old really sneaks up on you. You're having your best years, then you're having some more best years, and then .. suddenly .. you're in the middle of some years that aren't going so great, and well .. things go a bit down-hill from there.
Which is to say don't take your youth for granted. 55 is not 'that' old, but I can count through the decades the souls I've seen come and go, finally. And I know I could soon be among them.
So as I consider how quickly the last 10 years have passed, and how quickly the next 10 years may pass, if at all, I can say this: don't waste your time. Its all you've truly got. Material things come and go and don't mean anything - the people you meet along the way, the wonderful, intelligent and inspiring things you will see - this is what life is providing you.
Don't take it for granted.
(Actually, and somewhat ironically, I do remember a very specific moment about 20 years ago when I caught a glimpse of my reflection in a window on a day when I was not looking my best and thinking, geez, who is that old guy looking back at me? Surely, that's not me.)