Gabon longs to cash in on sacred hallucinogenic remedy(phys.org)
phys.org
Gabon longs to cash in on sacred hallucinogenic remedy
https://phys.org/news/2025-05-gabon-cash-sacred-hallucinogenic-remedy.html
50 comments
[deleted]
> One cannot buy “sacred”.
Obscuritan nonsense.
Obscuritan nonsense.
I don't think you understood the point. You can get the effects of the plant by consuming the plant. But you don't necessarily get the effects ot the ritual, even by participating in the ritual. See how much of a difference religious ceremonies can have on the believers vs non-believers.
It's not just the spiritual side either. Traditional knowledge is also about stuff like exactly how much to use, how to prepare it, what to use it with (and not to use it with), what time of day, beneficial activities before and after, and so on. The human body is a complex system where all of these things cause complex interactions that can influence efficacy. Traditional medicinal use is full of these kinds of 'full package' treatments, a lot of which is lost when you just bottle some ingredient.
> Traditional knowledge is also about stuff like exactly how much to use, how to prepare it, what to use it with (and not to use it with), what time of day, beneficial activities before and after, and so on.
You are describing conventional medical science, the difference being that scientific knowledge is systematized and reproducible while traditional knowledge is not. It’s magical voodoo thinking used by witch doctors who don’t want their processes appropriated (or worse, invalidated) by medical science, exactly like chiropractic or Traditional Chinese “Medicine.”
You are describing conventional medical science, the difference being that scientific knowledge is systematized and reproducible while traditional knowledge is not. It’s magical voodoo thinking used by witch doctors who don’t want their processes appropriated (or worse, invalidated) by medical science, exactly like chiropractic or Traditional Chinese “Medicine.”
I think it depends. In Brazil it's common (and lawful) to consume Ayahuasca in certain religious contexts. The biggest religions are Santo Daime and União do Vegetal - both are heavily Christian.
I know personally several people, many of whom hardcore atheists, who have had life-changing experiences taking part of those rituals and many have gone back or made it a regular occurrence. None of them ceased to be hardcore atheists.
I know personally several people, many of whom hardcore atheists, who have had life-changing experiences taking part of those rituals and many have gone back or made it a regular occurrence. None of them ceased to be hardcore atheists.
Yes. And in this case consider the ritual a part of the recipe, context, necessary environment for a certain complex healing experience.
Tested and iterated on through the years, and if your worldview allows for the concept of plant consciousness, consider that the steps may have been provided by its suggestion.
If one’s worldview is 100% materialistic, an encounter with some of these plants may change that.
Tested and iterated on through the years, and if your worldview allows for the concept of plant consciousness, consider that the steps may have been provided by its suggestion.
If one’s worldview is 100% materialistic, an encounter with some of these plants may change that.
The Ibogaine experience does not sound like much fun. Obvious very valuable and unique substance.
It's also got a really unique looking chemical structure.
It's also got a really unique looking chemical structure.
> Potentially toxic in high doses, ibogaine can have effects similar to LSD, mescaline or amphetamines
Guess I’ll stick with LSD
Guess I’ll stick with LSD
LSD and amphetamines basically don’t have the same effect at all. I wonder which one it is.
Both keep you from sleeping because they’re heavy stimulants.
LSD is not a CNS by any stretch of that definition.
Well, if I did pitch a definition in my comment, it's that it keeps you from sleeping.
Either way mescaline is the one of those that scares me
Industrialising production of a recreational drug seems like a double-edged sword. Does the Gabonese leadership really have the geopolitical know-how to make sure this stays as a boost to the economy and not an invitation to a series of US military assaults?
Psychedelics aren't physiologically addictive and don't induce the same economics as what you'd generally think as "recreational drugs". There are no LSD or DMT cartels.
Maybe not exactly the same, but plenty of people do buy LSD and other hallucinogens from illegal sources.
The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc. associated with drugs like cocaine and heroin?
The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc. associated with drugs like cocaine and heroin?
It's a reflection of the lack of money. Those substances are comparatively cheap, not habit forming and don't build up long term tolerance. A lot of them are pretty easy to DIY (though not LSD-25).
The typical LSD user will buy a $10 blotter once in a while. The money flow is not worth mentioning in the broader scope of illegal substances trafficking.
> The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc.
No. Most of Europe (apart from Scandinavian states, Belarus and Russian Federation, I believe) has access to legal LSD prodrugs. Not analogs but a LSD-25 molecule with attached [it changes] something group which is detached after ingestion, making the ingested substance "the real thing". These do not pass the LSD/DMT Ehrlich test[0]. AFAIK citizens of at least a few US states can as well fully legally obtain such compounds from up north.
So no - lack of LSD cartels is not a result of the lack of international supply chains. As GP stated - it's because these substances have a very low addiction potential.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich%27s_reagent
No. Most of Europe (apart from Scandinavian states, Belarus and Russian Federation, I believe) has access to legal LSD prodrugs. Not analogs but a LSD-25 molecule with attached [it changes] something group which is detached after ingestion, making the ingested substance "the real thing". These do not pass the LSD/DMT Ehrlich test[0]. AFAIK citizens of at least a few US states can as well fully legally obtain such compounds from up north.
So no - lack of LSD cartels is not a result of the lack of international supply chains. As GP stated - it's because these substances have a very low addiction potential.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich%27s_reagent
Tangential, but some people have indeed reported batches of 1P-LSD passing that test.
> Overseas laboratories meanwhile have worked out how to make synthetic ibogaine and to extract it from other plants, such as Voacanga africana.
> That flowering tree is available in greater quantities in Ghana and Mexico, which "can produce ibogaine at unbeatable prices," said Guignon.
> And "Gabonese traditional knowledge is not protected by intellectual property regulations."
I don’t see why they’d be invaded, I think more likely they’ll be out-competed.
> That flowering tree is available in greater quantities in Ghana and Mexico, which "can produce ibogaine at unbeatable prices," said Guignon.
> And "Gabonese traditional knowledge is not protected by intellectual property regulations."
I don’t see why they’d be invaded, I think more likely they’ll be out-competed.
Given what I've read about ibogaine, I don't think "recreational" is quite the right term... but maybe I'm just confused what you're referring to.
It's "recreational" if you're a masochist!!
It can have effects "similar to LSD, mescaline and amphetamines".
100% chance some people would use that recreationally if it were more freely available than the alternatives.
100% chance some people would use that recreationally if it were more freely available than the alternatives.
I think I get what you're saying—you're trying to use the medical/recreational distinction we use for weed and shrooms.
But, the primary non-indigenous use (and I suspect some of the intended commercial use) is in fact medical: it is useful for treating addictions.
But, to me "recreational" implies a party drug or a casual-use one. I don't see ibogaine as easily meeting either use. Why would you want to take a form of LSD that requires flying to Gabon and might kill you? There are much cheaper and less stressful ways to engage in drug tourism.
But, the primary non-indigenous use (and I suspect some of the intended commercial use) is in fact medical: it is useful for treating addictions.
But, to me "recreational" implies a party drug or a casual-use one. I don't see ibogaine as easily meeting either use. Why would you want to take a form of LSD that requires flying to Gabon and might kill you? There are much cheaper and less stressful ways to engage in drug tourism.
I'd doubt it. Gabon still has plenty of oil but that money goes into a few pockets only, the economy not diverse at all. If they want to get into drugs, why not all in and produce Captagon like Assad's regime in Syria? What the country needs is the Bongo family to withdraw, with empty pockets and for corruption to end. The 2023 coup was one family member against another and the last election the winner (from the dynasty of course) won 95% of the votes... Kim Jong Un is feeling envious!
>Does the Gabonese leadership really have the geopolitical know-how to make sure this stays as a boost to the economy and not an invitation to a series of US military assaults?
Well, they've had oil for the past 60 years. They have experience.
Well, they've had oil for the past 60 years. They have experience.
enduring a psychedelic experience in order to face your demons and come to the honest realization that you're destroying your life and the lives of your loved ones isn't what I'd describe as "recreational"
for the life of me i cannot understand what would possess an average person to travel across the world to have their ego forcibly broken in a capitalistic hyperreal facsimile of a shamanic experience over an agonizingly protracted period of time (ibogaine and maoi-enhanced dmt can last 12-24 hours) ... why does nobody talk about the permanent consequences that can arise from this? why are people not encouraged to dip their toes in before diving headfirst?
People absolutely talk about the permanent consequences that can arise from this.
But the problem with drug talk is that it is often no middle ground. On the one hand, authorities are going to tell you that any psychoactive substance stronger than coffee will kill you just by looking at it. I understand their position, discouraging people from taking drugs outside of a medical settings is a good idea in general, it includes most kinds of self-medication. But in the process, they generalize and overstate the potential harm, as if every drug was fentanyl.
But on the other hand, you have people who minimize the risks, saying how great these are and how evil government is preventing these miracle cures because big pharma profits or whatever.
The truth is between the two, there are real risks with drugs like ibogaine, dmt, and even cannabis. And there is a good chance taking these will make your life worse overall. But they also can make your life better, or they can be a fun trip. I put these in the category of "probably not good for you, but life would be boring if you never took risks and only did things that are good for you". The problem is that it is hard to find information from that perspective, you basically have to do you own research, with all that implies.
But the problem with drug talk is that it is often no middle ground. On the one hand, authorities are going to tell you that any psychoactive substance stronger than coffee will kill you just by looking at it. I understand their position, discouraging people from taking drugs outside of a medical settings is a good idea in general, it includes most kinds of self-medication. But in the process, they generalize and overstate the potential harm, as if every drug was fentanyl.
But on the other hand, you have people who minimize the risks, saying how great these are and how evil government is preventing these miracle cures because big pharma profits or whatever.
The truth is between the two, there are real risks with drugs like ibogaine, dmt, and even cannabis. And there is a good chance taking these will make your life worse overall. But they also can make your life better, or they can be a fun trip. I put these in the category of "probably not good for you, but life would be boring if you never took risks and only did things that are good for you". The problem is that it is hard to find information from that perspective, you basically have to do you own research, with all that implies.
Average person? What makes you think an average person would take this drug rather than someone who is desperate and feels like they're out of options?
as per my comment i am referring to commoditized shamanism in general which is popular enough that the phrase 'ayahuasca retreat' exists in the modern lexicon
Just administering the plant may be helpful but likely lacks an important component.
Medicine rooted in lineage and mastery is not possible to commercialize. One cannot buy “sacred”.