ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models(theregister.com)
theregister.com
ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/02/thinkpad_david_hill_interview/
130 comments
When something is large and light, the consumer view is that it is cheaply made. That's a problem when trying to sell an expensive product.
> When something is large and light, the consumer view is that it is cheaply made.
That depends on the context. If it also looks cheap and squeaks when you pick it up, the impression is that it's made of junk plastic rather than the wrought iron and solid gold presumably being used by the competition.
Whereas if you can give the feel that the thing is from the future with titanium alloys and carbon fiber (even if it's really still just aluminum and plastic), people get a different impression.
That depends on the context. If it also looks cheap and squeaks when you pick it up, the impression is that it's made of junk plastic rather than the wrought iron and solid gold presumably being used by the competition.
Whereas if you can give the feel that the thing is from the future with titanium alloys and carbon fiber (even if it's really still just aluminum and plastic), people get a different impression.
I believe that impression comes from the laptop feeling “hollow” more than it does from it being light.
This could probably be engineered around by doing things like holding the battery up against the laptop’s palm rest with a rim of TPU or similar between the battery and the case to deaden vibrations and make it feel more “solid”.
This could probably be engineered around by doing things like holding the battery up against the laptop’s palm rest with a rim of TPU or similar between the battery and the case to deaden vibrations and make it feel more “solid”.
Haven’t some products been found to have weights inside just to make them feel more premium?
Yup. The most prominent I can remember are the Beats By Dre headphones, where about a third of the weight is from metal parts that are either purely decorative, or whose functionality does not at all depend on being made of metal, based on a 2020 teardown [0,1].
[0]: https://beneinstein.medium.com/how-it-s-made-series-beats-by... [1]: https://beneinstein.com/how-it-s-made-series-yup-our-beats-w...
[0]: https://beneinstein.medium.com/how-it-s-made-series-beats-by... [1]: https://beneinstein.com/how-it-s-made-series-yup-our-beats-w...
[deleted]
Yeah. Dense = quality (and thus expense) is something people think.
I don’t know if it’s innate or learned, but I would certainly like to.
I don’t know if it’s innate or learned, but I would certainly like to.
My theory is that this is a sense that people picked up on thanks to the outpouring of various cheap electronics from China from the 90s onward. They tended to be enclosed in thin plastic shells that were sometimes larger than necessary in attempt to increase visible differentiation from competitors sharing the same internals. This made them feel hollow, and people associated that feeling with cheapness.
By contrast, high end electronics brands like Sony used thicker enclosures that were made with a thicker, less resonant plastic or even metal and focused on miniaturization which naturally lent itself to more dense products. People then associated that denseness with quality.
By contrast, high end electronics brands like Sony used thicker enclosures that were made with a thicker, less resonant plastic or even metal and focused on miniaturization which naturally lent itself to more dense products. People then associated that denseness with quality.
I suspect you’re probably right, but also that it goes back further.
Think well-made solid mixer, like an old KitchenAid stand mixer, versus a similar thing made of plastic. It wouldn’t be anywhere near as heavy. And it’s obviously much cheaper and wouldn’t feel as solid.
I guess I’m with you that it sort of came from the plastic age maybe? I wonder if it was really much of a thing before that.
then again it’s also easy to tell that a solid oak desk, or some other heavy wood, is better than something made of press-board or balsawood. so maybe it is even older.
Think well-made solid mixer, like an old KitchenAid stand mixer, versus a similar thing made of plastic. It wouldn’t be anywhere near as heavy. And it’s obviously much cheaper and wouldn’t feel as solid.
I guess I’m with you that it sort of came from the plastic age maybe? I wonder if it was really much of a thing before that.
then again it’s also easy to tell that a solid oak desk, or some other heavy wood, is better than something made of press-board or balsawood. so maybe it is even older.
In cases where there’s no component that would naturally add weight in the right place, yes.
I asked the kids not to unwrap their xmas presents.
That very much depends on the product type.
No one pedalling a heavy bicycle up hill ever thought it was better made than a lighter one, even if it was.
It’s almost first thing people do when looking at a bike is pick it up for weight.
Heavier aero bikes can be fast. Heavier 4-pot brakes can work better but still we notice the weight and want lighter.
No one pedalling a heavy bicycle up hill ever thought it was better made than a lighter one, even if it was.
It’s almost first thing people do when looking at a bike is pick it up for weight.
Heavier aero bikes can be fast. Heavier 4-pot brakes can work better but still we notice the weight and want lighter.
I like my Z13. Despite the non-thinkpad look, they finally did a bit of engineering together with AMD to get the cooling working again (copying from the Mac as well). It the least Thinkpad I ever had (no hardware track point buttons), but I am still quite happy (the x395 was a cooling catastrophy IMHO). However, i agree wrt repairs. I had my mainboard, my screen and my keyboard replaced, due to broken cables and switches, which ridiculous. My case is fully intact opposite to all my other think pads. The worst thing however is the firmware of the USB/charging controller with this laptop. It often does not really pre-boot with USB connecte, it often needs to be hard reset to get charging to work again,... Lenovo firmware/BIOS is a huge mess because IMHO they simply have too many models. They should offer one X and one T and make those good ones again. (Or just sell the ThinkPad brand to someone producing good keyboards for framework laptops and as external keyboars: i actually spend nights on eBay trying get an external ThinkPad Keyboard with German layout, because they seemed to have stopped production. Prices are skyrocketing: used ThinkPads are cheaper that used keyboard: tells you a lot)
cooling was an unsolved problem in any laptop I ever had (most but not all of them being thinkpads). with thinkpad fans often needing replacement
Ya for me that was the major selling point. My T490s still had a decent keyboard. My T14s gen 3 really sucks though. Almost no travel and very bad tactile feedback.
And these laptops are made for enterprise users who actually work on them and aren't dicking around on tiktok all day.
And these laptops are made for enterprise users who actually work on them and aren't dicking around on tiktok all day.
Thickness does change the ergonomics when typing
Thicker keys absolutely do change the ergonomics when typing.
> I think optimising for thinness is a stupid goal.
«
I don't WANT my laptop to be the Thinnest Model Yet
I want a battery that will outlast the sun, a screen big enough to blind the person behind me, more USB slots than there are apple fanboys in the bay area, a fucking disc reader/writer
[...]
I will pay extra for it to be heavy enough to bludgeon someone to death.
»
https://www.tumblr.com/canadiangold/675666527469568000/i-don...
I understand that different people want different things. Lots of people like thin light laptops. Maybe they're happy with the wireless peripherals I despise.
But can't those with other choices be offered something too?
«
I don't WANT my laptop to be the Thinnest Model Yet
I want a battery that will outlast the sun, a screen big enough to blind the person behind me, more USB slots than there are apple fanboys in the bay area, a fucking disc reader/writer
[...]
I will pay extra for it to be heavy enough to bludgeon someone to death.
»
https://www.tumblr.com/canadiangold/675666527469568000/i-don...
I understand that different people want different things. Lots of people like thin light laptops. Maybe they're happy with the wireless peripherals I despise.
But can't those with other choices be offered something too?
[deleted]
> "It's very difficult to make a seven-row keyboard anymore because of the aspect ratio of the display and the whole arrangement of the pieces on the inside," he said. "It's a decision that was not made lightly, however. I still like the seven-row keyboard and, as aspect ratios change, and they continue to change, I don't know. Maybe someday somebody will be interested in it again."
The sad part is, the Framework 13 has a 3:2 display (with a stupidly large bottom bezel, too, for good reasons), but still uses a bog-standard modern laptop keyboard, including (unlike the ThinkPad) the miserable half-height arrow keys. They did bother to make a Copilot key, though. Just not a better keyboard.
The sad part is, the Framework 13 has a 3:2 display (with a stupidly large bottom bezel, too, for good reasons), but still uses a bog-standard modern laptop keyboard, including (unlike the ThinkPad) the miserable half-height arrow keys. They did bother to make a Copilot key, though. Just not a better keyboard.
The Framework keyboard is precisely why I haven’t bought one. The mixed height arrow key thing sucked on the touchbar MacBook Pros, they suck on FWs too. The second the 13 gets a normal inverted T, I buy one.
In the meantime, I’m waiting on a display converter board to show up from China so I can install a modernish 1440p display in my T420.
In the meantime, I’m waiting on a display converter board to show up from China so I can install a modernish 1440p display in my T420.
The “normal” inverted T is just another variation of the same suckage as far as I’m concerned (slightly worse, if anything, because I tend to wear away the paint—and eventually plastic—on a tiny left-arrow key faster than on a normal one). Look at the photos in TFA[1] for how good arrow keys are arranged.
[1] e.g. https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg (the presence of a Break key almost makes me cry)
[1] e.g. https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg (the presence of a Break key almost makes me cry)
> https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg
Doesn't this photo show an inverted T?
Doesn't this photo show an inverted T?
I think a “normal” inverted T consists of half-height keys (i.e. used on most current laptops). ThinkPads used slightly higher arrow keys for a while, not sure about now.
A normal inverted T is what is on a standard desktop PC keyboard: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Arrow_ke...
While half-height arrow keys have become common on laptops, that's probably not what GP (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44769440) meant by "normal".
ThinkPads generally use slightly smaller keys for the arrow keys, but still significantly taller than half-height, like for example here: https://p3-ofp.static.pub/ShareResource/560x450/SSNP/4Y40X49...
What people really want is a full-height inverted T like on this Lenovo gaming laptop: https://p1-ofp.static.pub//fes/cms/2025/05/21/uft1eixrszoryp...
While half-height arrow keys have become common on laptops, that's probably not what GP (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44769440) meant by "normal".
ThinkPads generally use slightly smaller keys for the arrow keys, but still significantly taller than half-height, like for example here: https://p3-ofp.static.pub/ShareResource/560x450/SSNP/4Y40X49...
What people really want is a full-height inverted T like on this Lenovo gaming laptop: https://p1-ofp.static.pub//fes/cms/2025/05/21/uft1eixrszoryp...
What should I be doing with my x220? Where are the good thinkpad resources these days.
We have 1.5mm key travel, the keyboard is replaceable, and the vast majority of our keyboard artwork options don’t have a Copilot logo.
Please just give us an option to buy a 7 row Thinkpad keyboard with Trackpoint.
There are talented keyboard makers like Tex that already pulled this off, making better hardware than Lenovo itself, and you could instantaneously win most Thinkpad users over, likely permanently.
There are talented keyboard makers like Tex that already pulled this off, making better hardware than Lenovo itself, and you could instantaneously win most Thinkpad users over, likely permanently.
All true. My previous laptop was a 2014 MBP, and the two basically feel the same. I’d say the MBP’s layout is marginally worse because of the stupid power key and the half-size left and right arrows, and of course the MBP’s construction makes your life hell if you spill liquid on the keyboard and need to replace it. (Framework’s prohibition on freight forwarding makes my life difficult in the same situation, but that’s a me problem—I should have taken the hint that I wasn’t wanted when I was jumping through hoops to buy it in the first place.)
It’s not a bad keyboard. As far as laptops of the last decade go, it’s even a good one. But the up/down arrows sucked on the MBP and they (though not left/right) suck on the FW13, I expect(?) because a rectangular keyboard ends up cheaper than one with protruding arrows.
Furthermore, my (grandparent) comment was about how vertical shrinkage made the keyboard smaller but the FW13’s taller screen didn’t restore the missing keys, and if half-size up/down arrows just suck to use, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn hidden behind Fn suck to a Pavlovian extent: I didn’t realize how much the MBP trained me out of using them before I had to use an older ThinkPad for a bit that had them on separate keys. I won’t even mention Ctrl-Break except to look in its direction wistfully.
Finally, the Copilot key is of course a distraction. I don’t know what it actually sends on those keyboards, but if I can map that to Compose I couldn’t care less about what’s drawn on it. It’s just sad that, after everything, that distraction is what ended up being the first substantial change to the FW13’s keyboard.
It’s not a bad keyboard. As far as laptops of the last decade go, it’s even a good one. But the up/down arrows sucked on the MBP and they (though not left/right) suck on the FW13, I expect(?) because a rectangular keyboard ends up cheaper than one with protruding arrows.
Furthermore, my (grandparent) comment was about how vertical shrinkage made the keyboard smaller but the FW13’s taller screen didn’t restore the missing keys, and if half-size up/down arrows just suck to use, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn hidden behind Fn suck to a Pavlovian extent: I didn’t realize how much the MBP trained me out of using them before I had to use an older ThinkPad for a bit that had them on separate keys. I won’t even mention Ctrl-Break except to look in its direction wistfully.
Finally, the Copilot key is of course a distraction. I don’t know what it actually sends on those keyboards, but if I can map that to Compose I couldn’t care less about what’s drawn on it. It’s just sad that, after everything, that distraction is what ended up being the first substantial change to the FW13’s keyboard.
But you don't have good cooling, good battery life, good standby, good speakers, or open firmware and don't appear to be interested in fixing any of these issues.
Please offer a good TrackPoint keyboard. Please.
> aspect ratio of the display
Meanwhile, Apple sold 500+ million HiDPI 4:3 displays on iPads. Do they have a supply chain lock on 4:3 screens?
Meanwhile, Apple sold 500+ million HiDPI 4:3 displays on iPads. Do they have a supply chain lock on 4:3 screens?
Possibly. It’s hugely expensive to order a completely custom screen, and I know Framework waited for a long time for a better 3:2 display to come onto the market after the initial one—the current better panel is actually a compromise that loses some pixels to rounded corners, which is fine but IMO not “pay $270+tax+shipping for the upgrade” fine. Looking at the specs of the screens, I’m almost sure that both the original 2256×1504 one and the rounded-corners 2880×1920 one are actually identical to the ones in the Microsoft Surface (changed to a matte finish), so it’s Microsoft footing the custom-screen bill in this case. (I’ve heard we’re not getting small phones for a similar reason: you would need to sell a lot of phones to justify a new screen, and all the small-phone people will still begrudgingly buy a large one if there are no small ones.)
The big selling point of the higher tier FW13 screen option is that it’s conducive to 2x/200% UI scaling, which is surprisingly rare in x86 laptops and is desirable under Linux. Fractional scaling displays technically work but have some notable quirks, where 2x scaling has worked flawlessly for a long time.
I’m pretty sure it’s just that 16:9 are so ubiquitous they’re by far the cheapest option.
Hell, Apple shipping millions of 4:3 should keep them reasonable affordable. Same with 16:10 back when those were still a thing (because of the notch Apple now uses 9:5.85 displays to retain a rectangular 16:10 fullscreen).
Hell, Apple shipping millions of 4:3 should keep them reasonable affordable. Same with 16:10 back when those were still a thing (because of the notch Apple now uses 9:5.85 displays to retain a rectangular 16:10 fullscreen).
Turn the ThinkPad X12 into a modernized and more maintainable HP ZBook x2 G4, complete with EMR stylus. Keep the size or make it even smaller. Offer a bunch of first-rate keyboard options. For both machine's got the best form factor in that size-class there is: the detachable, the evolution of the convertible of yesteryear. It's really not hard to figure out.
Whatcha get instead? Garbage like silly rolling-display laptops. Or even worse, The Homer of the laptop world: these bizarre contraptions with two or three foldout displays. It's just missing a cup holder.
Framework borked it here as well. I just don't understand why you waste time, energy and money on developing and building a substandard machine (Framework 12) in an outdated form factor.
Whatcha get instead? Garbage like silly rolling-display laptops. Or even worse, The Homer of the laptop world: these bizarre contraptions with two or three foldout displays. It's just missing a cup holder.
Framework borked it here as well. I just don't understand why you waste time, energy and money on developing and building a substandard machine (Framework 12) in an outdated form factor.
No one asked for a 16:9 thinkpad though.
16:9 displays were inevitable due to the economies of scale form the TV industry. It's a shame they had to be 1366x768 for so long.
I remember many eons ago in the last 2000s to early 2010s when I wanted a 16:10 monitor for my PC and the price difference between 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 or between 2560x1440 and 2560x1600 was massive, that it made no sense to get the few extra vertical pixels of the 16:10 unless you were loaded and money was no issue.
Even 4k 16:9 monitors a few years after launch, were cheaper than 16:10 2560x1600 ones which have already been on the market far longer. Crazy.
I remember many eons ago in the last 2000s to early 2010s when I wanted a 16:10 monitor for my PC and the price difference between 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 or between 2560x1440 and 2560x1600 was massive, that it made no sense to get the few extra vertical pixels of the 16:10 unless you were loaded and money was no issue.
Even 4k 16:9 monitors a few years after launch, were cheaper than 16:10 2560x1600 ones which have already been on the market far longer. Crazy.
There was a narrow window when TV and monitor products used the same panels.
TVs got bigger very quickly after LCD took over-- there were a few years where they had ~22-25" sets as the small "dorm room" size models, but you walk into Best Buy and there's barely anything smaller than 32" now.
Conversely, mainstream desktop screens didn't get much above 27" before you started going exotic, so the typical monitors you're putting on a million desktops are not using the same panels as TVs.
I suppose you could say that a "master glass" could be cut into 16:9 panels for both TVs and monitors, but wouldn't it require the two panel sizes to use the same pixel density?
TVs got bigger very quickly after LCD took over-- there were a few years where they had ~22-25" sets as the small "dorm room" size models, but you walk into Best Buy and there's barely anything smaller than 32" now.
Conversely, mainstream desktop screens didn't get much above 27" before you started going exotic, so the typical monitors you're putting on a million desktops are not using the same panels as TVs.
I suppose you could say that a "master glass" could be cut into 16:9 panels for both TVs and monitors, but wouldn't it require the two panel sizes to use the same pixel density?
>I suppose you could say that a "master glass" could be cut into 16:9 panels for both TVs and monitors, but wouldn't it require the two panel sizes to use the same pixel density?
Also they shared the same COGs(chip-on-glass) to drive the TFT panels. That's why laptops had the same HDTV 1366x768 resolutions.
Also they shared the same COGs(chip-on-glass) to drive the TFT panels. That's why laptops had the same HDTV 1366x768 resolutions.
We’re talking 13 to 15-inch screens in laptops. I do not believe for one second that there were economies of scale in those screens in the 2010s with those sizes. People were not buying 13-inch TVs more than they were buying laptops. What happened is that desktops switched to 16:9 for economies of scale and the manufacturers switched on laptops for marketing purposes.
Look at how Apple never went 16:9 except for one model, the 11-inch MacBook Air.
Look at how Apple never went 16:9 except for one model, the 11-inch MacBook Air.
>I do not believe for one second that there were economies of scale in those screens
It's irrelevant what you believe if you're wrong. Laptop LCD displays can be cut form the same master glass as TV LCD displays more economically if they share the same aspect ratio and also share the same COGs(chip-on-glass) that drive the exact same TV resolutions 1366x768 and 1920x1080.
>Look at how Apple never went 16:9 except for one model, the 11-inch MacBook Air.
Apple never competed on the price war. For them, $5 extra on the BOM didn't matter at their margins compare to the likes of Acer/Asus/etc.
It's irrelevant what you believe if you're wrong. Laptop LCD displays can be cut form the same master glass as TV LCD displays more economically if they share the same aspect ratio and also share the same COGs(chip-on-glass) that drive the exact same TV resolutions 1366x768 and 1920x1080.
>Look at how Apple never went 16:9 except for one model, the 11-inch MacBook Air.
Apple never competed on the price war. For them, $5 extra on the BOM didn't matter at their margins compare to the likes of Acer/Asus/etc.
I call BS on that, as Macbooks somehow always kept being 16:10. In fact you could easily buy 16:10 panels, I know because for many years I upgraded old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.
Nothing what I said is BS, the price differences on external 16:10 monitors were significantly more expensive than 16:9 ones. Look it up.
> old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.
Yes you're talking about the really old 16:10 ones from the mid to late 2000s, right before they switched to 16:9 cause they were cheaper to make due to the HD TV era. Add then today they switched back to 16:10.
So no, it's no BS that scale allows for much cheaper products, but Apple could stick to 16:10 since they never catered to cheap and it would probably cost them more in SW dev and tooling to reengineer their OS GUI and chassis for 16:9 than to keep the production lines as is since their product line back then had like 3 laptops total.
And maybe start with good faith before screaming BS. No need to be rude just because people have different opinions and experiences than you.
> old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.
Yes you're talking about the really old 16:10 ones from the mid to late 2000s, right before they switched to 16:9 cause they were cheaper to make due to the HD TV era. Add then today they switched back to 16:10.
So no, it's no BS that scale allows for much cheaper products, but Apple could stick to 16:10 since they never catered to cheap and it would probably cost them more in SW dev and tooling to reengineer their OS GUI and chassis for 16:9 than to keep the production lines as is since their product line back then had like 3 laptops total.
And maybe start with good faith before screaming BS. No need to be rude just because people have different opinions and experiences than you.
And worth mentioning that Apple, unlike most PC manufacturers, don't have 100 different models, with 20 different configurations of each model lying around. Their 13" laptop has always had the same 2560x1600 resolution (until recently).
I did. I like having two documents side-by-side and I think it works out well on a 1920x1080 (or 3820x2160) display.
Guess I’ll blame you for ruining laptops then.
1080 pixels is too little vertical space to read documents.
1080 pixels is too little vertical space to read documents.
Back in my day... We had 1024x768 and if you were rich enough for a 19", 1280x960
My first, second and even 3rd laptops had 640×480 in 16 greys, with passive matrix LCDs. They also didn't have pointing devices.
I still use 15+ year old Thinkpads with 1366×768 pixel screens (a bit cramped) and a W520 with a 1920×1080 screen. Twisted nematic screens.
For me, given the 20th century laptops I started on, I think they're great. Not perfect, but good enough to put in 2 weeks working 9-5 on one of them, no problem at all.
I still use 15+ year old Thinkpads with 1366×768 pixel screens (a bit cramped) and a W520 with a 1920×1080 screen. Twisted nematic screens.
For me, given the 20th century laptops I started on, I think they're great. Not perfect, but good enough to put in 2 weeks working 9-5 on one of them, no problem at all.
The fibrous Trackpoint is still my absolute favourite.
For folks who want more in-depth backstory, going all the way back to the beginning and the origin of the "ThinkPad" name see:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/483933.ThinkPad
I really wish that there would be a true heir to the mantle, and a return to some of the original ideas, esp. the early stylus models and variants such as the TransNote --- if Lenovo would do a version of their Yogabook 9i under the ThinkPad brand and use a Wacom EMR stylus and put a Trackpoint on the keyboard it'd be an instabuy for me --- as it is, I use a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 and only get a Trackpoint when using my docking setup w/
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd026745-thinkpad...
(need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w/ USB-C)
For folks who want more in-depth backstory, going all the way back to the beginning and the origin of the "ThinkPad" name see:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/483933.ThinkPad
I really wish that there would be a true heir to the mantle, and a return to some of the original ideas, esp. the early stylus models and variants such as the TransNote --- if Lenovo would do a version of their Yogabook 9i under the ThinkPad brand and use a Wacom EMR stylus and put a Trackpoint on the keyboard it'd be an instabuy for me --- as it is, I use a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 and only get a Trackpoint when using my docking setup w/
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd026745-thinkpad...
(need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w/ USB-C)
I have a few of the THINK notepads that I found in my grandfather’s things after he passed away. He was an IBM employee in the 50s and 60s.
I remember picking the first one up and saying out loud, “that’s where the name came from!”
I remember picking the first one up and saying out loud, “that’s where the name came from!”
Yep, that exact story is related in "A Different Shade of Blue" (pg. 104):
>At the next staff meeting, Kathy Vieth asked Wainwright to report on his progress in naming the new pen tablet. He took the small leather pad with the word _THINK_ embossed on the cover and simply tossed it onto the table. All eyes followed the little black think pad as it sailed through the eair, almost in slow motion and landed --- _PLOP_ on the conference room table.
>
>The team was very excited: everyone was talking. No one was sure whether it was Sue King, or Kathy Vieth, or Patty McHugh, or someone else who first declared, ``Denny, that's a think pad --- a tiny tablet. It's the perfect name. We'll call it a ThinkPad.''
>At the next staff meeting, Kathy Vieth asked Wainwright to report on his progress in naming the new pen tablet. He took the small leather pad with the word _THINK_ embossed on the cover and simply tossed it onto the table. All eyes followed the little black think pad as it sailed through the eair, almost in slow motion and landed --- _PLOP_ on the conference room table.
>
>The team was very excited: everyone was talking. No one was sure whether it was Sue King, or Kathy Vieth, or Patty McHugh, or someone else who first declared, ``Denny, that's a think pad --- a tiny tablet. It's the perfect name. We'll call it a ThinkPad.''
> (need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w/ USB-C)
Once you find a TrackPoint keyboard model that you like, buy spares, since you might have a hard time getting a good design in the future.
For example, they went to a lot of trouble to develop TrackPoint keyboard SK-8855, with community input, and then discontinued it. To cries of anguish, scalpers and price-gouging on last remaining stock, and, years later, people selling filthy broken used ones for more than they cost new.
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005137-thinkpad...
I don't think Lenovo has quite the same design sensibilities as IBM ThinkPad team had:
* "You, the user, want to throw away IBM's famed keyboards, and have a chiclet keyboard as the only option." (No.)
* "You want to remove the function keys that aren't necessary for Twitter." (No.)
* "You want to remove the tactile cues from TrackPoint buttons, so it looks more sleek, for your TikTok scrolling." (No. This is not a mindless "content consumer" device. "Think" is right there, in the name.)
* "You want to remove the TrackPoint buttons altogether, from a workstation laptop, so you can get RSI from clicking with your thumb on the touchpad below instead." (No, and now I think you are just trying to sabotage all the smart people who were using ThinkPads before.)
I'm still surprised that IBM was even allowed by the US gov't to sell ThinkPad to China. It was beloved fleet tech of US big business and government, as well beloved by techies ("innovators"). And maybe also a source of technology excellence pride, like fewer companies are now. Imagine the iPhone business being sold to China. Or Cisco being sold.
Once you find a TrackPoint keyboard model that you like, buy spares, since you might have a hard time getting a good design in the future.
For example, they went to a lot of trouble to develop TrackPoint keyboard SK-8855, with community input, and then discontinued it. To cries of anguish, scalpers and price-gouging on last remaining stock, and, years later, people selling filthy broken used ones for more than they cost new.
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005137-thinkpad...
I don't think Lenovo has quite the same design sensibilities as IBM ThinkPad team had:
* "You, the user, want to throw away IBM's famed keyboards, and have a chiclet keyboard as the only option." (No.)
* "You want to remove the function keys that aren't necessary for Twitter." (No.)
* "You want to remove the tactile cues from TrackPoint buttons, so it looks more sleek, for your TikTok scrolling." (No. This is not a mindless "content consumer" device. "Think" is right there, in the name.)
* "You want to remove the TrackPoint buttons altogether, from a workstation laptop, so you can get RSI from clicking with your thumb on the touchpad below instead." (No, and now I think you are just trying to sabotage all the smart people who were using ThinkPads before.)
I'm still surprised that IBM was even allowed by the US gov't to sell ThinkPad to China. It was beloved fleet tech of US big business and government, as well beloved by techies ("innovators"). And maybe also a source of technology excellence pride, like fewer companies are now. Imagine the iPhone business being sold to China. Or Cisco being sold.
The other option wasn't IBM keeping the business, it was IBM discontinuing it entirely.
I miss the ThinkLight (and the dual-light idea he had sounds great). Useful when working in a dark environment to look at papers and whatnot, or just to provide a nice amount of ambient light to smooth out the contrast between the screen itself and your surroundings. Most modern laptops have backlit keys, but those don't help in those cases; they are pretty much only useful for people who can't touch type.
I actually used to work at a place that had regular power outages because it was remote and ran on hydropower. We had a bunch of old think pads with the think light at the time that were standard staff issue, and they were awesome for working on any technology or system stuff when power was out but wireless was on with the UPSs. Such a cool feature and I do wish they still had it. Along with the locking lids, the 430 and 530s were tanklike.
Yeah, it has got me "in the zone" for writing many times. On a side note, I also like the "click" when I close the lid on my T42. Mentally balancing for sure :).
I bought a used P50 for our son, and while it's allright (even the keyboard -- although it doesn't give that particular feel of the T4x era keyboards), it lacks both of those extra-relevant features. No click on closing, and a mere backlit keyboard. But, that's life!
I bought a used P50 for our son, and while it's allright (even the keyboard -- although it doesn't give that particular feel of the T4x era keyboards), it lacks both of those extra-relevant features. No click on closing, and a mere backlit keyboard. But, that's life!
All the ThinkLights I've used were dim, barely brighter than the backlight bleed from the screen. I would have to be in a pitch black room (at night with no light, not even a street light outside) for it to be useful.
Exactly - the light was far more useful than just for illuminating the keyboard
Man, i love me some Thinkpad laptops!
For me, its the overall sturdiness, the historic ability to more easily swap out components, and the keys and keyboard combo. I haven't had so many Thinkpads as others have had, but of the few i have owned, i think so far the T420 from i think circa 2011 (?) seemed to have the best balance of sturdy boxy goodness and wonderful keys and keyboard. While i would not say that i am a keyboard snob, i can certainly appreciate differences between the different types of keyboards like chiclets, or mechanical dedicated keyboards, etc. I'm sure beyond functional aspects, there is no doubt a nostalgia that i feel for these machines that is solely based on emotion...but who cares, since i always get more value than whatever i paid for them!
On another aspect to this, it feels like Framework laptops has a chance to perhaps capture at least some of the positive sentiment that folks have/had for Thinkpads. I mean, sure, the swap-ability of the components is the most obvious comparison...but, i think Framework has also fostered a following by a community, that, if they play their cards right - and produce good, solid products - can turn into a successor to Thinkpads. I mean, obviously thinkpads are still here and all...but the folks at Framework have a big chance here, and i welcome the competition (since we all win as consumer if there is good, solid choices in the marketplace). Let's hope both Thinkpads and Framework (and any other competitors) keep moving the needle forward to empower users with more options for good solid design, easy/self-repair, component swap-ability, sturdy/dependable hardware, and fair pricing!
For me, its the overall sturdiness, the historic ability to more easily swap out components, and the keys and keyboard combo. I haven't had so many Thinkpads as others have had, but of the few i have owned, i think so far the T420 from i think circa 2011 (?) seemed to have the best balance of sturdy boxy goodness and wonderful keys and keyboard. While i would not say that i am a keyboard snob, i can certainly appreciate differences between the different types of keyboards like chiclets, or mechanical dedicated keyboards, etc. I'm sure beyond functional aspects, there is no doubt a nostalgia that i feel for these machines that is solely based on emotion...but who cares, since i always get more value than whatever i paid for them!
On another aspect to this, it feels like Framework laptops has a chance to perhaps capture at least some of the positive sentiment that folks have/had for Thinkpads. I mean, sure, the swap-ability of the components is the most obvious comparison...but, i think Framework has also fostered a following by a community, that, if they play their cards right - and produce good, solid products - can turn into a successor to Thinkpads. I mean, obviously thinkpads are still here and all...but the folks at Framework have a big chance here, and i welcome the competition (since we all win as consumer if there is good, solid choices in the marketplace). Let's hope both Thinkpads and Framework (and any other competitors) keep moving the needle forward to empower users with more options for good solid design, easy/self-repair, component swap-ability, sturdy/dependable hardware, and fair pricing!
There is something about the classic Thinkpad design which strikes me as more than just nostalgia. More like a Jungian archetype. Honest, virtuous and sturdy. The ultimate example of form follows function. The Stroke 8 of computers. A masculine counterpart to the femininity of Apple products (nttawwi).
The irony is, back when Steve Jobs first came back to Apple from NeXT, the Apple press on at least one occasion complained of him using a ThinkPad, even stating it was running Windows 95, w/o considering the NeXT compatibility list, that that model was on it, and that it actually ran NeXTstep and Lighthouse Design's Concurrence.app for presentations.
> More like a Jungian archetype. Honest, virtuous and sturdy.
+1, comparison of the day for sure!
+1, comparison of the day for sure!
> There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to destroy ThinkPad
It's been long enough to say that Lenovo really did right by the Thinkpad name. I recently switched from an X1 Carbon to a Macbook Pro because of Windows issues, and I miss the Thinkpad is built and feels. The case isn't as sharp, I prefer the trackpoint, plastic is weirdly more durable because it can flex, and all the parts are replaceable.
It's been long enough to say that Lenovo really did right by the Thinkpad name. I recently switched from an X1 Carbon to a Macbook Pro because of Windows issues, and I miss the Thinkpad is built and feels. The case isn't as sharp, I prefer the trackpoint, plastic is weirdly more durable because it can flex, and all the parts are replaceable.
> Hill said that the X300 is the favorite ThinkPad he worked on, not only because of its thinness, but also because it proved that, under Lenovo, he could build an even better product than he had for IBM.
> "There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to destroy ThinkPad, and it was going to become cheerful and ruin it and all this kind of stuff," he said.
'As good' can mean different things.
My first two laptops were IBM Thinkpads. In 2000 or so, I was carrying one in my hands down some concrete stairs. I tripped, bounced the laptop down 2-3 stairs, then landed on my knee on top of it. No visible marks, and it booted right up and worked flawlessly for years afterward. This was with a platter hard drive, too. I don't remember the X300, but the current Lenovo Thinkpads don't strike me as being quite as robust as the tanks they used to make.
> "There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to destroy ThinkPad, and it was going to become cheerful and ruin it and all this kind of stuff," he said.
'As good' can mean different things.
My first two laptops were IBM Thinkpads. In 2000 or so, I was carrying one in my hands down some concrete stairs. I tripped, bounced the laptop down 2-3 stairs, then landed on my knee on top of it. No visible marks, and it booted right up and worked flawlessly for years afterward. This was with a platter hard drive, too. I don't remember the X300, but the current Lenovo Thinkpads don't strike me as being quite as robust as the tanks they used to make.
I have never used the butterfly keyboard 700C (my first ThinkPad was the 365X) but I immediately fell in love with the trackpoint since day one. I will never go back to a mouse. Fortunately you can buy USB keyboards with trackpoints so that's what I'm using for my desktop. It's also kinda funny when other people ask me to use my computer, and then hunt around my desk for the mouse ;)
A general takeaway from this is that there were a number of innovations that made sense at the time, but as the landscape changed, they lost their utility. The butterfly keyboard wasn't needed once screens got larger. The switch to widescreen mean the 7th row of keys competed with the trackpad for real estate. The lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter. Top-of-screen keyboard lighting got replaced by backlighting.
Don't get married to once-smart ideas that no longer make sense.
Also surprised there was no mention of docking HDD heads when the in-device accelerometer (I think this even predates the Wii and iPhone) detects a drop or the keyboard that had drain holes that bypass the much more expensive motherboard, protecting it from spills.
And I'm glad there was no mention of the adaptive keyboard (touchscreen F keys) that Apple also tried and failed at making a thing.
Don't get married to once-smart ideas that no longer make sense.
Also surprised there was no mention of docking HDD heads when the in-device accelerometer (I think this even predates the Wii and iPhone) detects a drop or the keyboard that had drain holes that bypass the much more expensive motherboard, protecting it from spills.
And I'm glad there was no mention of the adaptive keyboard (touchscreen F keys) that Apple also tried and failed at making a thing.
> The switch to widescreen mean the 7th row of keys competed with the trackpad for real estate.
Sure, but I would have preferred a smaller trackpad.
The lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter.
Their solution of ratcheting metal and plastic very tightly limits the lifetime, I'd prefer the latch so I don't have to worry about this in the future.
> Top-of-screen keyboard lighting got replaced by backlighting.
Top of the screen was better for, as another commenter posted, ambient lighting.
Sure, but I would have preferred a smaller trackpad.
The lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter.
Their solution of ratcheting metal and plastic very tightly limits the lifetime, I'd prefer the latch so I don't have to worry about this in the future.
> Top-of-screen keyboard lighting got replaced by backlighting.
Top of the screen was better for, as another commenter posted, ambient lighting.
I'd take a Thinkpad without a trackpad all together - I always disable mine in the bios anyways.
Still also prefer thinklight to backlit keyboards but that's less of a necessary
Still also prefer thinklight to backlit keyboards but that's less of a necessary
Considering how big a thing custom keyboards are on desktops, I could see a very viable market for more keyboard options as an upsell. If they swapped out the entire case top (or at least a large panel including the trackpad and keyboard) as a single FRU, the options could be impressive.
Regular keyboard with stupid trackpad: included Backlit keyboard: +$30 7-row non-trackpad keyboard: +$60 7-row backlit: +$100 All glass programmable touchscreen monstrosity: +$400
Regular keyboard with stupid trackpad: included Backlit keyboard: +$30 7-row non-trackpad keyboard: +$60 7-row backlit: +$100 All glass programmable touchscreen monstrosity: +$400
I question why the butterfly keyboard wouldn't be needed once screens were larger. I use a MNT Reform and a mechanical keyboard is still vastly superior.
You may be thinking of butterfly keyboard switches, which aren't what is being discussed here. The Thinkpad "butterfly keyboard" was a design which moved pieces of the keyboard around to make a keyboard wider than the laptop pop out when the laptop was opened. This video has a demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrpRgKS2x4
The purpose of this design was to allow a small laptop, with a small screen, to have a near full-size keyboard. Once larger screens forced laptops to become larger as well, this design was no longer needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrpRgKS2x4
The purpose of this design was to allow a small laptop, with a small screen, to have a near full-size keyboard. Once larger screens forced laptops to become larger as well, this design was no longer needed.
Ah yes! My mistake. I didn't realise that was what that was called. I did have one of those for a little while as a lab computer as it beat the size requirements allowed into the lab. I mean it was old for it's time when I used it but plugged in, it would do text files and csv.
I have always found thinkpads to be the most overrated laptops ever.
I far prefer Macbooks in all aspects beit ergonomics, aesthetics or performance.
I don't get the love for Thinkpads. Maybe it's just nostelgia clouding people's judgement because I just see something which is clunky, ugly, plastic, noisy with a crap screen and crap battery life. The keyboard is the only thing I like more, but the macbook keyboards are okay these days.
I have both and would say that they just have different priorities. ThinkPad is an open platform, so you can run Linux. If you want to run Linux, modern MacBooks are no good. Yes, you could run Asahi on an M1/M2, but things like DP-Alt and Thunderbolt are still not supported. Whereas I could plug in my T14 Gen 5 AMD with Linux to a Thunderbolt display and it worked on day 1.
ThinkPads are also much more upgradable and serviceable than a MacBook. I popped in 64GiB RAM, 2 TB NVMe SSD, and a WWAN modem and it cost me almost nothing. However. doing so requires a less flat, less glued, etc. system, which requires other compromises. Getting a MacBook with similar memory and storage would cost 5300 Euro (compared to ~1400-1500 for the ThinkPad) and I still wouldn't have WWAN (far better CPU/GPU though, but I especially want the RAM/storage).
I fully agree though that for the price MacBooks have far better screens, cooling systems, and the unibody aluminium case is pretty much unbeatable. CPU-wise, AMD APUs have caught up a lot.
clunky, ugly, plastic, noisy with a crap screen and crap battery life
I think that's not really a fair characterization. There is are wide gap between a good ThinkPad and e.g. a cheap Acer (to which your description would apply). My T14 even gets 6-7 hours on Linux (which isn't exactly known for great battery life), so it would probably do 10 hours on Windows. I only head the fan when I load the system a lot and even then it's fairly quit. And the case, even though it's not aluminium is still pretty nice/robust.
I have M1 Pro and M3 Pro MacBooks to compare to. IMO MacBook and ThinkPads are great in different ways. Ideally I'd want to have a MacBook with the upgradeability/repairability of a ThinkPad that can run NixOS with all peripherals supported.
ThinkPads are also much more upgradable and serviceable than a MacBook. I popped in 64GiB RAM, 2 TB NVMe SSD, and a WWAN modem and it cost me almost nothing. However. doing so requires a less flat, less glued, etc. system, which requires other compromises. Getting a MacBook with similar memory and storage would cost 5300 Euro (compared to ~1400-1500 for the ThinkPad) and I still wouldn't have WWAN (far better CPU/GPU though, but I especially want the RAM/storage).
I fully agree though that for the price MacBooks have far better screens, cooling systems, and the unibody aluminium case is pretty much unbeatable. CPU-wise, AMD APUs have caught up a lot.
clunky, ugly, plastic, noisy with a crap screen and crap battery life
I think that's not really a fair characterization. There is are wide gap between a good ThinkPad and e.g. a cheap Acer (to which your description would apply). My T14 even gets 6-7 hours on Linux (which isn't exactly known for great battery life), so it would probably do 10 hours on Windows. I only head the fan when I load the system a lot and even then it's fairly quit. And the case, even though it's not aluminium is still pretty nice/robust.
I have M1 Pro and M3 Pro MacBooks to compare to. IMO MacBook and ThinkPads are great in different ways. Ideally I'd want to have a MacBook with the upgradeability/repairability of a ThinkPad that can run NixOS with all peripherals supported.
Sometimes, I travel with my nearly-15-year-old Thinkpad T420 in preference to my MacBook Air M1.
The Macbook has a horrible keyboard with no travel. The buttonless trackpad is a pain to use; it's very hard to right-click and even with a 3rd party FOSS app to give me 3-finger middle-click, it's almost impossible to do it precisely. I use middle-click hundreds of times a day, but I have no use for trackpad gestures. It has a wretched 2 USB-C ports, one for power. I can't connect a mouse, keyboard, screen and power without carrying a dock. I can't upgrade the RAM. I recently had to remove Asahi Linux because it no longer had enough space to install the latest macOS 15 update -- the SSD can't be upgraded either.
It feels like a laptop designed by and for a tablet user. I am not a tablet user. I don't like them much.
The Thinkpad is a pleasure to use, and I can work on it all day for weeks without feeling especially cramped or anything. It has 2x the RAM and about 10x the SSD space. I've upgraded RAM, keyboard, main SSD, secondary SSD and battery, and it cost me next to nothing.
The only virtues of the Macbook are that it's easy to carry and the battery lasts a long time. It's very unpleasant to actually work on.
The Macbook has a horrible keyboard with no travel. The buttonless trackpad is a pain to use; it's very hard to right-click and even with a 3rd party FOSS app to give me 3-finger middle-click, it's almost impossible to do it precisely. I use middle-click hundreds of times a day, but I have no use for trackpad gestures. It has a wretched 2 USB-C ports, one for power. I can't connect a mouse, keyboard, screen and power without carrying a dock. I can't upgrade the RAM. I recently had to remove Asahi Linux because it no longer had enough space to install the latest macOS 15 update -- the SSD can't be upgraded either.
It feels like a laptop designed by and for a tablet user. I am not a tablet user. I don't like them much.
The Thinkpad is a pleasure to use, and I can work on it all day for weeks without feeling especially cramped or anything. It has 2x the RAM and about 10x the SSD space. I've upgraded RAM, keyboard, main SSD, secondary SSD and battery, and it cost me next to nothing.
The only virtues of the Macbook are that it's easy to carry and the battery lasts a long time. It's very unpleasant to actually work on.
> I am not a tablet user.
It's unclear why you chose the Air then. It's designed as a lightweight entry level portable for people with minimal requirements.
It's unclear why you chose the Air then. It's designed as a lightweight entry level portable for people with minimal requirements.
I didn't. It is a work machine.
I smashed my right arm to bits in early 2023. I was unable to use that hand for months. I asked for a machine which could take dictation. This is what I got.
And I have to admit, it's now my go-to machine for remote events, conferences and so on; it replaced my Planet Computers Gemini.
But actually working at a desk using the thing is not very pleasant. I regularly see MacBook fans praising the keyboard and the trackpad, but IMHO they are awful.
E.g. I am often told that macOS includes middle-click support, by people who don't know that their mouse has 3 buttons. The existence of this paid app:
https://middleclick.app/
And multiple generations of this FOSS alternative:
https://github.com/artginzburg/MiddleClick
... effectively falsify that.
I smashed my right arm to bits in early 2023. I was unable to use that hand for months. I asked for a machine which could take dictation. This is what I got.
And I have to admit, it's now my go-to machine for remote events, conferences and so on; it replaced my Planet Computers Gemini.
But actually working at a desk using the thing is not very pleasant. I regularly see MacBook fans praising the keyboard and the trackpad, but IMHO they are awful.
E.g. I am often told that macOS includes middle-click support, by people who don't know that their mouse has 3 buttons. The existence of this paid app:
https://middleclick.app/
And multiple generations of this FOSS alternative:
https://github.com/artginzburg/MiddleClick
... effectively falsify that.
The Macbook trackpad beats the Thinkpad trackpad hands down. The Thinkpad trackpad is extremely liquid/oil sensitive. Wipe your hands through your hair, put your fingers on the trackpad and it stops working. Very frustrating.
I use both daily (work/personal) and I've come to agree. My work MBP is just better than my personal Thinkpad in all respects, despite having nearly identical pricetags.
I bought it because I wanted frankly, something different than the Mbps I've had from work for 15 years, and to go Linux-first. OSX annoys me about as much as Linux does, so the software is on par, but the hardware just can't touch Apple hardware. I wish this weren't the case, but it is.
I bought it because I wanted frankly, something different than the Mbps I've had from work for 15 years, and to go Linux-first. OSX annoys me about as much as Linux does, so the software is on par, but the hardware just can't touch Apple hardware. I wish this weren't the case, but it is.
One gripe I have with Lenovo keyboards is that the Fn key is at the left-most edge of the bottom row. Per my muscle memory, it's the Control key that ought to be there, not Fn.
They're trying to ape the Apple layout. I agree, it's annoying.
They were trying to ape the Apple layout without even understanding the Apple layout.
Apple layout works because the most used modifier is "Command". There are two of them, on both sides of Space. You can quickly find them without looking at the keyboard: put a thumb on the (extra-wide) space and move to the side until you get to the next button. That's "Cmd".
Less-used button is Option, there are two of them, next to Command further away from Space, you can find them in a similar manner by moving over two buttons. (Option is mostly used together with Command.)
Even less used is Control, there's only one, and it's even farther away from left Option. Finally, the thing that's hardly ever used is Fn which is stuck in the most remote location -- down-left corner.
On PCs, Ctrl is the most used button, there are two of them, on extreme left and right, you can quickly find them without looking at the keyboard: put a pinky on the "no keys" space outside of keys and move it towards where the keys are. Once you hit the key, it's Ctrl.
What ThinkPad designers did was to break this in the most brutal manner: by putting the least used button in the most used position. If they wanted to ape the Apple layout, they would do great by understanding the Apple layout first.
Apple layout works because the most used modifier is "Command". There are two of them, on both sides of Space. You can quickly find them without looking at the keyboard: put a thumb on the (extra-wide) space and move to the side until you get to the next button. That's "Cmd".
Less-used button is Option, there are two of them, next to Command further away from Space, you can find them in a similar manner by moving over two buttons. (Option is mostly used together with Command.)
Even less used is Control, there's only one, and it's even farther away from left Option. Finally, the thing that's hardly ever used is Fn which is stuck in the most remote location -- down-left corner.
On PCs, Ctrl is the most used button, there are two of them, on extreme left and right, you can quickly find them without looking at the keyboard: put a pinky on the "no keys" space outside of keys and move it towards where the keys are. Once you hit the key, it's Ctrl.
What ThinkPad designers did was to break this in the most brutal manner: by putting the least used button in the most used position. If they wanted to ape the Apple layout, they would do great by understanding the Apple layout first.
> by understanding the Apple layout first.
And it's honestly kinda mindblowing that they didn't get it. You don't have to use a Mac for that long to realize how their layout works and why it works. Likewise they could have used keyboards with the Fn key on the very bottom left and realized instantly it was subpar for Windows based laptops.
And it's honestly kinda mindblowing that they didn't get it. You don't have to use a Mac for that long to realize how their layout works and why it works. Likewise they could have used keyboards with the Fn key on the very bottom left and realized instantly it was subpar for Windows based laptops.
I swap Alt and Ctrl on Windows/Linux to gain the nice ergonomics. I haven’t regretted it yet.
Maybe I’m just sentimental, but My Thinkpad x300 was the toughest, most productive laptop that I have owned. I took that laptop deep into the Amazon where it was exposed to near 100% humidity for months. It’s plastic / polycarbonate shell stood up to a tremendous amount of abuse, and it’s keyboard was awesome. Times have changed and now I mostly use Apple products, but they are not nearly as tough, or have as nice of a keyboard as that X300.
I run Fedora 42 on one, and it's surprisingly nippy even today.
Even my x200 is ticking along fine here on the latest Debian.
I can't have a laptop without the trackpoint.
But why can't my fulloption P16 gen2 have a working suspend sleep S3?
It's a furnace in my backpack.
Also why lose the RJ45?
Sadly there is no better laptop.. - ecc - trackpoint +3buttons, could be without touchpad - camera shutter privacy - smartcard reader - 2 nvme (<3 zfs mirror) - big battery
<3 NixOS
It's a furnace in my backpack.
Also why lose the RJ45?
Sadly there is no better laptop.. - ecc - trackpoint +3buttons, could be without touchpad - camera shutter privacy - smartcard reader - 2 nvme (<3 zfs mirror) - big battery
<3 NixOS
My T14 Gen 5 has RJ45, so they are not completely gone.
> When designing the 25th anniversary ThinkPad, which came out in 2017, Hill brought back the ThinkLight, but he actually wanted to have – for the first time – two LEDs instead of one. The dual lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even better illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too costly to make it into the final product.
Dual ThinkLights appeared on two models - W700 & W701: https://youtu.be/LSHP7VRs0bI?t=658
There was also a dual screen variant, which had a secondary screen that popped out to the right of the primary screen: https://youtu.be/mzhZH9LK1ac?t=26
Dual ThinkLights appeared on two models - W700 & W701: https://youtu.be/LSHP7VRs0bI?t=658
There was also a dual screen variant, which had a secondary screen that popped out to the right of the primary screen: https://youtu.be/mzhZH9LK1ac?t=26
Too costly to have two LEDs? I question if that is the case.
The 25th Anniversary ThinkPad was a modified T470. I assume that the cost issues were related to a requirement to minimise the number of case modifications required from the stock T470. Incorporating a ThinkLight would require a redesigned display lid.
I get what you mean but still, it's a one off special edition. A company as big as Lenovo doesn't need to do everything for profit. I would understand if it was a new model design that could sell tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands but the T25 was a limited run, make it beautiful.
The forced redesign story was the icing on the cake. You never redesign a best selling item. If you try, the changes will be made to you.
> However, Hill said, he thought about putting a butterfly keyboard on a netbook when they were a viable product category in the late aughts.
I really want to see sub-11" notebooks again. They were super cool travel laptops.
> The dual lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even better illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too costly to make it into the final product.
Ridiculous. Function must be allowed to win sometimes.
I really want to see sub-11" notebooks again. They were super cool travel laptops.
> The dual lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even better illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too costly to make it into the final product.
Ridiculous. Function must be allowed to win sometimes.
GPD has some. Particularly the GPD Pocket 4. 8.8" Notebook with a AMD HX 370 processor and up to 64GB RAM. Can even work as a KVM.
I have one and I love it, but damn do I hate the key layout on it. Which is a shame because they have saner layouts on some of their smaller offerings.
Yeah, I don't have one but it is tempting. I was thinking maybe of using Kmonad or something to turn the ; key into some sort of layer shift if I got one. But I'm already pretty used to using key layers.
I think they did it that way to make a more usable keyboard for touch typing at that size? The smaller devices like the Win Mini seem to have more like thumb keys.
I think they did it that way to make a more usable keyboard for touch typing at that size? The smaller devices like the Win Mini seem to have more like thumb keys.
I hate that they deliberately obscure the keyboard in all their product pictures. I couldn't see what was wrong until looking at a review. Sounds great otherwise but that's disappointingly deceptive.
I wish such devices had hot-swappable plates and key caps to let us choose our own compromises. Key layout seems like such a trivial, almost cosmetic, aspect that can make a device a misery overshadowing much higher complexity/cost tech like the screen and internals.
I wish such devices had hot-swappable plates and key caps to let us choose our own compromises. Key layout seems like such a trivial, almost cosmetic, aspect that can make a device a misery overshadowing much higher complexity/cost tech like the screen and internals.
The trackpoint and the nice keys are one thing, but what I really want all laptops to have is dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdn keys and in a normal-looking layout (as in 7-row or as in a full keyboard).
I find it weird that even framework has gone with a keyboard where a bunch of keys are missing.
(Sent from my Thinkpad T410)
I find it weird that even framework has gone with a keyboard where a bunch of keys are missing.
(Sent from my Thinkpad T410)
for that very reason I got a t25 and recently an old used x220 and two x220t (the latter two for the superior screen)
In England the nub was referred to as the nipple.
I had a series of think pads. I think the last one was a t61p running Lennox and it was truly glorious. I can't remember if it was that model or an earlier one which had a battery known as the tumor which stuck out the back. You could hibernate the laptop and swap in another battery and turn the laptop back on and keep working without rebooting.
Everything since then for me has been MacBooks or Dell laptops. Neither brings me as much joy.
I had a series of think pads. I think the last one was a t61p running Lennox and it was truly glorious. I can't remember if it was that model or an earlier one which had a battery known as the tumor which stuck out the back. You could hibernate the laptop and swap in another battery and turn the laptop back on and keep working without rebooting.
Everything since then for me has been MacBooks or Dell laptops. Neither brings me as much joy.
I went to a college in Utah (USA) that issued ThinkPads to every student. Since 90% of the students were guys, of course it was called the nipple.
> However, at this point, the Soft Dome design has won out with a rather large, flat top that's filled with dots for texture and an easy grip.
I've only ever used the original eraser head and the current soft dome, and remember the original being nice because it was tall enough to tilt my finger slightly and push, while the current one is annoying to use because they're too short to do that and my fingers get almost no grip on them and slip around.
I've only ever used the original eraser head and the current soft dome, and remember the original being nice because it was tall enough to tilt my finger slightly and push, while the current one is annoying to use because they're too short to do that and my fingers get almost no grip on them and slip around.
You can order packs of different shapes and sizes on Amazon
I still have my 2005 ThinkPad X41 which has both a TrackPoint and a ThinkLight. The laptop has a dead battery, but works as good as new when plugged in.
On my trusty T42 (bought ~10 years ago for about 30 euros) the GPU finally died last winter (heavy, unreadable screen flicker during every slightly more intensive task). It has an IPS panel which itself still seems to be in order, though. Luckily, I accidentally saw a similar one (no IPS, though) for 26 euros, so I'm rocking again.
Those 4:3 screens and T4x series keyboards are really hard to let go, and if your activities allow for more text-oriented operating systems (I installed 9front on mine, but used to be a dedicated Tinycore Linux user, and the T42 is also nice with the various open source DOSes we have these days), they're still perfectly capable machines for 90% of relevant tasks. CF cards make very nice poor man's SSDs, so the machine is also very quiet with this setup, so far the fan rarely turns on.
As for my previous T42, I think I really squeezed a lot out of it, including using it to produce (and, on a few occasions, record live) 1-hour radio shows for my country's public broadcasting (honored to contribute to a "landmark" series where high production quality is a must). It was always fun to think that here I am, working on a 30€ 15-year-old machine, whereas other guys are doing their exact same montages on 2000€ Macbooks -- and regarding the resulting production, the radio listener will notice no difference whatsoever. :)
Obviously, though, this is a geek thing, those Macs probably do make a lot of sense for serious audio production.
It's completely crazy, though, how you can get a more or less perfectly working (!) Thinkpad for 25-30 euros, whereas that same brand new machine cost something like 2k in 2007.
Those 4:3 screens and T4x series keyboards are really hard to let go, and if your activities allow for more text-oriented operating systems (I installed 9front on mine, but used to be a dedicated Tinycore Linux user, and the T42 is also nice with the various open source DOSes we have these days), they're still perfectly capable machines for 90% of relevant tasks. CF cards make very nice poor man's SSDs, so the machine is also very quiet with this setup, so far the fan rarely turns on.
As for my previous T42, I think I really squeezed a lot out of it, including using it to produce (and, on a few occasions, record live) 1-hour radio shows for my country's public broadcasting (honored to contribute to a "landmark" series where high production quality is a must). It was always fun to think that here I am, working on a 30€ 15-year-old machine, whereas other guys are doing their exact same montages on 2000€ Macbooks -- and regarding the resulting production, the radio listener will notice no difference whatsoever. :)
Obviously, though, this is a geek thing, those Macs probably do make a lot of sense for serious audio production.
It's completely crazy, though, how you can get a more or less perfectly working (!) Thinkpad for 25-30 euros, whereas that same brand new machine cost something like 2k in 2007.
I believe you can reflow the soldering on the GPU on the T42 by heating it up, this was a common problem.
> After the sale, Hill got to work on building the ultimate ThinkPad, the X300. When it launched in early 2008, the X300 was one of the thinnest and lightest laptops made... It was also the first ThinkPad to ship without an IBM logo on it.
I swear that the ThinkPad z61p I got in July 2007 had Lenovo branding on it.
I swear that the ThinkPad z61p I got in July 2007 had Lenovo branding on it.
Interesting that we have tons of interviews, podcasts and books about how Apple design their hardware and software, but barely anything when it comes to other PCs or OSes. I have read some books and they are disappointing.
I assumed much of the PC industry wasn't doing "design" so much as "what's available in stock and quantity."
Only the largest players-- the Dells and HPs and Acers-- really made much design decisions with custom cases and peripherals, but their teams might have some interesting stories to tell. It might be hard to turn it into a mainstream appeal story, rather than a industrial design tech-journal one.
Only the largest players-- the Dells and HPs and Acers-- really made much design decisions with custom cases and peripherals, but their teams might have some interesting stories to tell. It might be hard to turn it into a mainstream appeal story, rather than a industrial design tech-journal one.
Is anyone aware of a similar type of article for the ThinkPad Power 800 series?
I know the trackpoint was popular but I could never get used to it; the pressure I felt I needed to apply eventually hurt my fingertip.
I know the trackpoint was popular but I could never get used to it; the pressure I felt I needed to apply eventually hurt my fingertip.
I wish lenovo would make a modern 700c, nice and thin, no trackpad, 11" screen and three mouse buttons. Would be the ideal portable for me.
Definitely had fun as I was scrolling the article with a Trackpoint using the scrolling button. 100% my preferred way to laptop.
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I love how he also doesn't care about the X9.
I'm just gonna leave this here
https://www.tpart.net/about-x210ai/
https://www.tpart.net/about-x210ai/
4:3 did nothing wrong.
golf tee (aka soft rim cap) trackpoint ftw
For some reason Lenovo has made the ThinkPad keyboard worse with every new generation. They're still better than other laptop keyboards, but my goodness the margin is shrinking.
And while David Hill may claim that Lenovo TPs are as good as (or better than) IBM's, the number of repairs mine have had tell a different story. Since the x230, every single ThinkPad I've owned had to have its mainboard replaced. Sometimes even twice.