When Bruce Lee trained with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar(lithub.com)
lithub.com
When Bruce Lee trained with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
https://lithub.com/when-bruce-lee-trained-with-kareem-abdul-jabbar/
91 comments
The article is about two things: Kareem & Bruce, and Kareem & racism. Very much like "Sunday Best" (Ed Sullivan & racism) on Netflix. If you have a sub, be sure to watch it. Younger folks today have a hard time understanding the depth of racism around the 60s. Couple of scenes in SB will help to provide some understanding. Kudos to Kareem (and Ed) for many things.
Kareem is also a really good writer.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/kareem-abdul-ja...
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/kareem-abdul-ja...
I know you are correct, but I can't help but feel like there's been a resurgence - at least in the US. Or maybe not a resurgence, but at least they don't feel like they have to hide their feelings and beliefs as much anymore. There's plenty of examples of white supremacists marching about openly in the US.
From European point of view it feels like it never went away in the southern states, or regions with indian reserves.
Naturally we also have our issues on this side as well, unfortunately.
Naturally we also have our issues on this side as well, unfortunately.
I live in a southern state. We have a very few racists, when they act out the press immediately announces and amplifies their actions.
Morgan Freeman once said the way to kill racism is to stop talking about it. He may be right.
Morgan Freeman once said the way to kill racism is to stop talking about it. He may be right.
Thanks for pointing that out, however I disagree that not talking helps.
I see how it goes in Portugal and the few European countries I lived in, including having experienced myself xenophobism in first hand in some of those countries, and stop talking isn't how it gets sorted out.
I see how it goes in Portugal and the few European countries I lived in, including having experienced myself xenophobism in first hand in some of those countries, and stop talking isn't how it gets sorted out.
But .. isn't that also the way to let racism fester?
The greatest rise in the use of racism has been among people using it to divide and to attack political groups and persons. In a manner similar to calling people "fascists", calling people "racists" is a tried and true way to smear someone with little risk to oneself.
There are openly racist white supremacists and that's how it should be - they are allowed to voice their opinions (thanks to free speech). They aren't a significant minority and they know their day has passed. Best to let such movements die out.
Actor Morgan Freeman said, in answer to a question about how to get rid of racism, “Stop talking about it.”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/morgan-freeman-black-histo...
It may be too handy and too easy to use racism as a political weapon for some to let go of. For others it may be a crutch they never needed yet perhaps are unwilling to lay down.
Talking to some younger liberals today you'd thing that they actually lived and personally experienced the US's periods of racial turmoil (all the way back to the Civil War and to the establishment of the original 13 colonies). Their outrage is fresh and full-blown. But that suffering was done by their ancestors (the black ones, in particular) not by them. And remember that the Civil War alone in the United States cost many, many white lives: 698,000 by one estimate - most of whom were white.
https://nchstats.com/new-civil-war-death-toll/
There are openly racist white supremacists and that's how it should be - they are allowed to voice their opinions (thanks to free speech). They aren't a significant minority and they know their day has passed. Best to let such movements die out.
Actor Morgan Freeman said, in answer to a question about how to get rid of racism, “Stop talking about it.”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/morgan-freeman-black-histo...
It may be too handy and too easy to use racism as a political weapon for some to let go of. For others it may be a crutch they never needed yet perhaps are unwilling to lay down.
Talking to some younger liberals today you'd thing that they actually lived and personally experienced the US's periods of racial turmoil (all the way back to the Civil War and to the establishment of the original 13 colonies). Their outrage is fresh and full-blown. But that suffering was done by their ancestors (the black ones, in particular) not by them. And remember that the Civil War alone in the United States cost many, many white lives: 698,000 by one estimate - most of whom were white.
https://nchstats.com/new-civil-war-death-toll/
Sorry, no. To make clear your subtext: Morgan Freeman being Black does not somehow immunize him from having a really bad take.
Racism is also facilitated by people pointing to the crack pots and saying, we swear we're not like them... oh, also wear this band for your safety... so we know how to easily identify you.
Open racists do not scare me. Plus, I am 100% sure we have very different definitions of what is an open racist. Worse, having that discussion is tiring and ultimately pointless semantics that slows down the actual discussion of important issues.
What scares me is this milquetoast won't everyone just calm down and we really need to turn the temp down and agree to talk...
This while the mid-tier of Side-A is re-posting gas chamber memes, playing the victim card, and calling everything they don't like porn. And Side-B, ever the dutiful neo-liberal centrists, lean into the characterization that they are the resistant or some s-star-star-t because it gives them the tingles.
It is the same everything is normal cosplay over and over again. I am tired of having to, again, entertain the rational suggestion that "racism is a crutch" of the next person in costume that fancies themselves an iconoclast because they are brave enough to say they don't like seeing the homeless in SF.
Sigh, this is boring...
Racism is also facilitated by people pointing to the crack pots and saying, we swear we're not like them... oh, also wear this band for your safety... so we know how to easily identify you.
Open racists do not scare me. Plus, I am 100% sure we have very different definitions of what is an open racist. Worse, having that discussion is tiring and ultimately pointless semantics that slows down the actual discussion of important issues.
What scares me is this milquetoast won't everyone just calm down and we really need to turn the temp down and agree to talk...
This while the mid-tier of Side-A is re-posting gas chamber memes, playing the victim card, and calling everything they don't like porn. And Side-B, ever the dutiful neo-liberal centrists, lean into the characterization that they are the resistant or some s-star-star-t because it gives them the tingles.
It is the same everything is normal cosplay over and over again. I am tired of having to, again, entertain the rational suggestion that "racism is a crutch" of the next person in costume that fancies themselves an iconoclast because they are brave enough to say they don't like seeing the homeless in SF.
Sigh, this is boring...
Bad News Bears (1976) - https://youtu.be/w1DDuN_eYlg
...skip ahead to a minute in and give a listen. This is kids, in a movie, in the preview!
50 years of progress, such as it is.
...skip ahead to a minute in and give a listen. This is kids, in a movie, in the preview!
50 years of progress, such as it is.
Well, I think they're starting to get an idea now.
The old, history doesn't repeat, but rhymes, etc.
The old, history doesn't repeat, but rhymes, etc.
I’ve been around since the 70’s and it’s improved dramatically. Big difference. That isn’t recognized nor celebrated like it probably should be. But like the CGP Grey video showed, hate seems to spread farther faster on the internet. I think it was called “You won’t like this video”.
>> I’ve been around since the 70’s and it’s improved dramatically
I've been around since the 70's and it's the same as it ever was. The local library has a thing where you can access historical versions of the local newspaper. I read the newspaper headlines from when I was a kid. Nothing is different now from what it was then.
Nothing has changed and nothing has been learned and no one cares.
I've been around since the 70's and it's the same as it ever was. The local library has a thing where you can access historical versions of the local newspaper. I read the newspaper headlines from when I was a kid. Nothing is different now from what it was then.
Nothing has changed and nothing has been learned and no one cares.
There's a pendulum swinging, for better or worse. But people do care.
When I was in growing up in the 90's 00's ... I distinctly remember saying to myself: I know, logically, that racism exists but I cannot remember the last time I experienced direct racism, if ever. I know it existed, indirectly, but I, nor my close family or friends, experienced it. The first time I did experience, and increasingly so, has been in the last 10 years.
I think it was terrible until the 70's and 80's (history and family anecdotes prove this, you're right) ... it went relatively underground in the 90's and early 00's which made life great ... and when society was strained by the global financial crash, etc, things have swung back again.
I really put this whole reality at the feet of the bankers and it's amplified by social media. They were the lead dominos in all of this. They released the wankers and populism.
And getting back on topic, society has broken apart again and exposed racism again. You're right. Nothing has changed. But life is better when the assholes are in their caves stewing their hatred rather than emerging and sharing it with everyone.
As above, it's different in how it manifests at the moment, but it definitely rhymes, and at its heart, it's the same hatred manifest in a different way.
The only thing we can hope for is the pendulum swinging back, so the wankers are put back in their caves and we can get on with a relatively normal life again.
When I was in growing up in the 90's 00's ... I distinctly remember saying to myself: I know, logically, that racism exists but I cannot remember the last time I experienced direct racism, if ever. I know it existed, indirectly, but I, nor my close family or friends, experienced it. The first time I did experience, and increasingly so, has been in the last 10 years.
I think it was terrible until the 70's and 80's (history and family anecdotes prove this, you're right) ... it went relatively underground in the 90's and early 00's which made life great ... and when society was strained by the global financial crash, etc, things have swung back again.
I really put this whole reality at the feet of the bankers and it's amplified by social media. They were the lead dominos in all of this. They released the wankers and populism.
And getting back on topic, society has broken apart again and exposed racism again. You're right. Nothing has changed. But life is better when the assholes are in their caves stewing their hatred rather than emerging and sharing it with everyone.
As above, it's different in how it manifests at the moment, but it definitely rhymes, and at its heart, it's the same hatred manifest in a different way.
The only thing we can hope for is the pendulum swinging back, so the wankers are put back in their caves and we can get on with a relatively normal life again.
Here's "The Lighter Side of Polarization", by Dave Berg, from MAD magazine, April 1974:
https://archive.org/details/mad-magazine-166-1974/page/n25/m...
America is still dealing with many of the same issues a half-century later.
https://archive.org/details/mad-magazine-166-1974/page/n25/m...
America is still dealing with many of the same issues a half-century later.
>Bruce helped the young athlete understand his movements in a way that seemed to decelerate time. “Bruce showed me how to harness some of what was raging inside me and summon it completely at my will. The Chinese call it chi; the Japanese, ki; the Indians, prana—it is the life force,” he said. “I was quite amazed to find, after working with Bruce, that when I really had my presence of mind, when I did control my life force, that’s what I saw, things coming at me in slow motion with plenty of time to get out of the way.
Seemingly we are learning here something new about Bruce Lee, that outside observers can't understand, most notably western ones. This decelaration of time also happened to me two times spontaneously, when I was attacked on surprise, hence I believe this verbatim. In both cases, that got me plenty of time, to decide what to do and was able to save myself without a scratch. However it never occurred to me,that that had something to do with my Chi force...
Seemingly we are learning here something new about Bruce Lee, that outside observers can't understand, most notably western ones. This decelaration of time also happened to me two times spontaneously, when I was attacked on surprise, hence I believe this verbatim. In both cases, that got me plenty of time, to decide what to do and was able to save myself without a scratch. However it never occurred to me,that that had something to do with my Chi force...
I have had the same experience when attacked. A football hooligan smashed a bottle on my head from behind. Time slowed down. I turned around and could see everything he was doing in slow motion and I was completely calm. I knew what he would do before he could do it.
I am not a fighter or physically brave, but I completely disarmed him, put him in a headlock and threw him to the ground.
I am not a fighter or physically brave, but I completely disarmed him, put him in a headlock and threw him to the ground.
Josh waitzkin breaks this down really well in his book the art of learning.
He's a chess champion and push hands champion and discusses how to learn. Basically as you become and expert in something you learn to pay less attention to the surrounding environment and only focus on what matters, which allows you to see it in "slow motion". This applies to chess champions where masters eye movement focuses on a much smaller part of the board than a beginner, and also in push hands or BJJ where experts fighting for a tiny bit of grip change is what matters but a novice might just see the whole body not moving or doing anything that matters.
Very worthwhile read.
He's a chess champion and push hands champion and discusses how to learn. Basically as you become and expert in something you learn to pay less attention to the surrounding environment and only focus on what matters, which allows you to see it in "slow motion". This applies to chess champions where masters eye movement focuses on a much smaller part of the board than a beginner, and also in push hands or BJJ where experts fighting for a tiny bit of grip change is what matters but a novice might just see the whole body not moving or doing anything that matters.
Very worthwhile read.
Interesting, I wonder if this is the thing that happens to while playing this videogames.
At some point after hours (30+) struggling against the same boss,you realize you see everything in slow motion,at that point you know it's the end, you mastered it. I literally say "ok it's done, time to defeat it".
Is this Chi
I always thought of it as muscle memory, the movement becomes so ingrained in your body that you can focus on things at a higher level. Keep going up the levels and at some point everything looks like trivial details
Is this Chi
I always thought of it as muscle memory, the movement becomes so ingrained in your body that you can focus on things at a higher level. Keep going up the levels and at some point everything looks like trivial details
Based on my own experience, it's nothing like chi or something supernatural. The repetition has lowered the uncertainty of the thing you're trying to do, to the point it's easy to do if you focus.
That's it, experience and focus. Even if you mastered something, someone can keep distracting you and you will find it returns to difficult without focus. Even if you focus a lot, hard things have to be repeated to master them.
That's it, experience and focus. Even if you mastered something, someone can keep distracting you and you will find it returns to difficult without focus. Even if you focus a lot, hard things have to be repeated to master them.
It's called bottom up processing and time slowing down is a side effect of that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition_(psycholog...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition_(psycholog...
There is no such thing as Chi force, so it wasn't that. The perception of time is malleable though.
See https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sense-time/201707/th... and tons if other articles.
See https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sense-time/201707/th... and tons if other articles.
It's super interesting, I have had it the most in a car accident saw my seatbelt snap and slide off of me like it was a sleepy snake, watched the stuff in my backseat get hang time that would have made MJ jealous, and thankfully managed to not die.
I had something similar happen when I was a passenger in a car accident. I had been asleep and woke up just before the impact. I watched the car's front end crumple in slow motion and was able to protect my head and "roll" with the collision to come out unscathed.
I always assumed the slowing down of time effect was induced by hyper alertness from the dose of adrenaline you get when in trouble.
Personally I think our eyes and senses input a lot of information then our brains discard what it feels is unnecessary without processing it. But some people can train the brain to process more of the information like a formula 1 driver.
You might want to study Bioenergetics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioenergetics and Bioenergetic Systems - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioenergetic_systems if you want to understand Prana/Qi/Chi/Ki in the modern scientific context.
Also see Guy Brown's The Energy of Life: The Science of What Makes Our Minds and Bodies Work.
Also see Guy Brown's The Energy of Life: The Science of What Makes Our Minds and Bodies Work.
You linked to articles describing actual biology, not anything like "Chi".
I pointed you to the mapping of the concept of Prana/Qi/Chi/Ki in today's scientific context. They were framed in a different cultural context with a different concept of "Science" and it is up to you to map them to concepts in modern science.
For example they had a different model of Anatomy/Physiology in spite of the fact that they were aware of the various circulatory and nervous systems. Their approach was more holistic and empirical rather than reductionist and analytical. So even though you might not have a one-to-one correspondence to concepts in modern science there is enough studies/research done to establish that there is something to those ideas and hence their various practices (especially Yoga and Acupuncture) are now used in Healthcare to treat various ailments.
Some resources;
1) Perception of Subtle Energy “Prana”, and Its Effects During Biofield Practices: A Qualitative Meta-Synthesis - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10498708/
2) The Science of Tai Chi and Qigong as Whole Person Health-Part I: Rationale and State of the Science - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40091656/
For example they had a different model of Anatomy/Physiology in spite of the fact that they were aware of the various circulatory and nervous systems. Their approach was more holistic and empirical rather than reductionist and analytical. So even though you might not have a one-to-one correspondence to concepts in modern science there is enough studies/research done to establish that there is something to those ideas and hence their various practices (especially Yoga and Acupuncture) are now used in Healthcare to treat various ailments.
Some resources;
1) Perception of Subtle Energy “Prana”, and Its Effects During Biofield Practices: A Qualitative Meta-Synthesis - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10498708/
2) The Science of Tai Chi and Qigong as Whole Person Health-Part I: Rationale and State of the Science - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40091656/
no, chi and centrifugal force do not really exist. But because everything we percieve is essentially a metaphor, a model of reality,
sometimes chi or loosy goosey uses of the word 'energy' really can be a valid heuristic for the things that you can do to optimise your 'ability to do work'.
As long as you remember its a vague, subjective, context restricted heuristic, and don't try shooting chi bullets, I say max your chi flow friend.
As a kid I had this happen in sports fairly frequently. What feels like seconds is really a fraction of a second. It helps a lot. I'm not sure I would ascribe it to some mystical thing like chi or ki, just something funky going on with our brains.
I wonder if we should take seriously the idea that the brain can process information faster in emergencies, rather than this just being our perception. After all, we know our neurons work orders of magnitudes more slowly than transistors, so there would seem to be plenty of room for increase. Obviously there must be some biological reason why we're not usually faster, but perhaps it doesn't preclude a temporary speedup.
This website is super annoying
https://archive.ph/L4g8w
https://archive.ph/L4g8w
Roger Murdock : ROGER MURDOCK. I'm an airline pilot.
Joey : I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense.
[Kareem gets angry]
Joey : And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.
Roger Murdock : The hell I don't! LISTEN, KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night! Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!
Joey : I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense.
[Kareem gets angry]
Joey : And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.
Roger Murdock : The hell I don't! LISTEN, KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night! Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!
Roger, Roger.
That's Roger Murdock. He's the co-pilot.
I absolutely love his performance in Airplane, the facial expressions are perfect and the way he looks around after “the hell I don’t” shows he really has great comedic timing and movement.
Incidentally, for anyone that didn’t know, the film Airplane was an almost shot for shot remake of a film called Zero Hour [1] and the copilot in the original film was a famous NFL player (Elroy ‘Crazy Legs’ Hirsch), hence why they’ve got Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to play the copilot in Airplane.
We have clearance Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector Victor?
[1] https://youtu.be/8-v2BHNBVCs?feature=shared
Incidentally, for anyone that didn’t know, the film Airplane was an almost shot for shot remake of a film called Zero Hour [1] and the copilot in the original film was a famous NFL player (Elroy ‘Crazy Legs’ Hirsch), hence why they’ve got Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to play the copilot in Airplane.
We have clearance Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector Victor?
[1] https://youtu.be/8-v2BHNBVCs?feature=shared
Airplane! was just on The Rewatchables, one of The Ringer podcasts, and the co-pilot role was originally written for Pete Rose but he couldn't do it because they filmed during baseball season.
https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-rewatchables/2025/09/...
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/kareem-abdul-jabbars-role-in-airpla...
https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-rewatchables/2025/09/...
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/kareem-abdul-jabbars-role-in-airpla...
It seems funnier with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar because at 7’2” the idea he’d be able to slyly get away with moonlighting as an airline pilot is even more ridiculous!
I am learning some of these facts in my adulthood, and I never thought it possible that film could get any funnier.
There is so many layers of jokes!
There is so many layers of jokes!
Who's the guy who, late in the movie, jumps from the left side of the frame, grabs Leon's love handles, shakes them, saying "Leon's getting too fat! He's too fat!" and then jumps back out of the frame, leaving Leon astonished and speechless, staring to the left? And who is Leon?
It looks like an ad-libbed scene to me: "Leon" was absolutely struck dumb by the move.
It looks like an ad-libbed scene to me: "Leon" was absolutely struck dumb by the move.
- Time's getting thinner.
- and Leon's getting laaaaarger.
-- Stephen Stucker as Johnny
- and Leon's getting laaaaarger.
-- Stephen Stucker as Johnny
I'm sorry son but you must have him confused with someone else.
I never understood the obsession with Bruce Lee as a fighter (not considering his acting/stunt scenes here which deserve to be judged on their own merit), it seems any half decent Judoka or amateur boxer would have probably beaten him in a fight.
Tarantino wanted to prove that his stunt double character was a bad-ass, so he had him fight Bruce Lee on a movie studio back lot, and win. Tarantino said that Bruce Lee fans dragged him through fire, insisting that Lee would have won. Tarantino said, it's my fantasy damn it, my guy can win if I want him to!
That's consistent with your comment getting down votes.
That's consistent with your comment getting down votes.
In the flick Tarantino made it seem like Lee was all bluff, that he could just talk tough and make some fancy moves and much bigger guys would all back down. The world doesn't work like that.
> he could just talk tough … and much bigger guys would all back down. The world doesn't work like that.
It kind of does though? I was a bartender at a very, very popular college bar. Often I was the only employee working Monday/Tuesday. I was a very scrawny, nerdy child-looking 20-year old.
I had to learn how to kick out championship D1 football stars, even pro NFL (actual) stars, if they happened to become belligerent those nights. We had all types of customers, including ones who specifically came in with intention to fight.
There was always some specific way to interact with them to make them leave of their own volition. Often with the biggest guys, it was to be aggressive and psychically “larger” than them. The smaller “fighty” dudes were usually the toughest, as they often felt they needed to prove themselves and I had to use a different tactic.
But what you describe “talking tough” was by far the most successful with the “much bigger guys”.
It kind of does though? I was a bartender at a very, very popular college bar. Often I was the only employee working Monday/Tuesday. I was a very scrawny, nerdy child-looking 20-year old.
I had to learn how to kick out championship D1 football stars, even pro NFL (actual) stars, if they happened to become belligerent those nights. We had all types of customers, including ones who specifically came in with intention to fight.
There was always some specific way to interact with them to make them leave of their own volition. Often with the biggest guys, it was to be aggressive and psychically “larger” than them. The smaller “fighty” dudes were usually the toughest, as they often felt they needed to prove themselves and I had to use a different tactic.
But what you describe “talking tough” was by far the most successful with the “much bigger guys”.
On the one hand, in interviews, Tarantino always seems to have contrarian opinions about everything. When Kill Bill came out, he’d verbally knock Lee and praise lesser known movie practitioners.
On the other hand, if you watch the movie until the end, it’s obvious that the movie has an unreliable narrator. We all know how the Tate/Labianca murders actually turned out. Not at all like the movie…
On the other hand, if you watch the movie until the end, it’s obvious that the movie has an unreliable narrator. We all know how the Tate/Labianca murders actually turned out. Not at all like the movie…
That's not unreliable narrator, it's alternative history. Like when his heroes kill Hitler and end the war early saving millions of lives.
[deleted]
That was supposed to be inspired by a supposedly Hollywood legend that claimed that Gene LeBell easily manhandled Bruce Lee on the set of Green Hornet.
There is also another story where Gene supposedly choked out Steven Segal (who claimed his training would prevent it).
I have no idea if either is true, but personally if I was required to place a bet on a contest between a well trained and experienced grappler/shoot wrestler that outweighed his opponent (Kung Fu practitioner) by 75lbs…my money is on the grappler all day long.
There is also another story where Gene supposedly choked out Steven Segal (who claimed his training would prevent it).
I have no idea if either is true, but personally if I was required to place a bet on a contest between a well trained and experienced grappler/shoot wrestler that outweighed his opponent (Kung Fu practitioner) by 75lbs…my money is on the grappler all day long.
I’m just going to leave this here
https://youtu.be/3aCMTpJx2cs?si=1roXwjjWxsxQb3P1
https://youtu.be/3aCMTpJx2cs?si=1roXwjjWxsxQb3P1
You not liking the thing that I like negatively impacts me liking the thing.
All too true for too many people these days.
Snowflakes.
Snowflakes.
Well, that's the thing. He never fought any of those people in a real competition, so the question could remain in someone's mind whether he would have won or not. Combine that with the general mystique of Asian martial arts in the 1960s, and his early death, that has the makings of a legend.
I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better.
I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better.
> I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better.
My interest over the years of Bruce Lee was much more from this perspective. Many stories talk about how hard he trained, and other aspects of essentially an underdog story. Combined with his communication[0], he comes across very thoughtful, and very grounded in many ways. Putting anyone on a “legend” status pedestal is always fraught with issues, but definitely a figure that inspired a lot of people.
https://youtu.be/uk1lzkH-e4U?si=Uu44M-UC1tKYv894
My interest over the years of Bruce Lee was much more from this perspective. Many stories talk about how hard he trained, and other aspects of essentially an underdog story. Combined with his communication[0], he comes across very thoughtful, and very grounded in many ways. Putting anyone on a “legend” status pedestal is always fraught with issues, but definitely a figure that inspired a lot of people.
https://youtu.be/uk1lzkH-e4U?si=Uu44M-UC1tKYv894
> I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better.
That's what the Gracie family did with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Except they actually proved it worked by dominating the early years of UFC before they even introduced weight classes.
That's what the Gracie family did with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Except they actually proved it worked by dominating the early years of UFC before they even introduced weight classes.
Bruce Lee competed in and won boxing tournaments as a teenager...
any reliable record for this?
I think there's a story about him beating a white kid from a rival private school in a boxing match
certainly unreliable reports of him doing well in informal rooftop bouts amongst the various Wing Chun students in Hong Kong
there are also stories of him getting his ass kicked by William Chung and Wong Shun Leung (others of Yp Man's students) and being a petty little bitch and getting kicked out of Yp Man's school
Who knows. It's all apocrypha at this point
certainly unreliable reports of him doing well in informal rooftop bouts amongst the various Wing Chun students in Hong Kong
there are also stories of him getting his ass kicked by William Chung and Wong Shun Leung (others of Yp Man's students) and being a petty little bitch and getting kicked out of Yp Man's school
Who knows. It's all apocrypha at this point
> It's all apocrypha at this point
There are still people alive who witnessed these events first hand. I don't think first-hand accounts should be labeled apocrypha. But... maybe it means you doubt them? Fair enough.
There are still people alive who witnessed these events first hand. I don't think first-hand accounts should be labeled apocrypha. But... maybe it means you doubt them? Fair enough.
It’s difficult to establish veracity of any of these accounts. Some of them are real, some aren’t, but the two are mostly indistinguishable.
Is apocrypha a reasonable word to use for that?
Is apocrypha a reasonable word to use for that?
The only thing I'd ever heard of was him beating the defending scholastic champ in Hong Kong. But AFAIK that was the only boxing match where there is any sort of record.
I read this in wiki too, but couldn't trace where this came from.
A boxer might well have beaten him at boxing
Yep, but I thought he touted his martial skills as being able to beat any discipline.
In a contest where both were allowed to actually use their own martial arts style.
The article's headline is incorrect. It was Kareem Abdul -Jabbar who trained with Bruce Lee. After all, Bruce was the sensei and Kareem the student.
I disagree. Bruce Lee treated it as a learning experience as well.
> At first, Bruce told Mito that Big Lew was slow, his arms were weak, and he wasn’t good at chi sao. A reporter who witnessed one of their workouts was more impressed with Bruce than Big Lew. He wrote that Bruce could “leap and kick over Alcindor’s head, and says he can defeat him by taking advantage of his shin and thigh with a kick.”
> But Bruce soon realized all that was irrelevant. Even if he could get inside Big Lew’s reach, it wasn’t easy. And with his front kick, Big Lew could rattle the rim of the basket. Bruce’s Wing Chun skills were all but useless. He joked with Doug Palmer, “Try doing chi sao with someone when you’re staring at his belly button.” Bruce called Taky and told him not to focus on chi sao in the school anymore.
> “Bruce and I sparred regularly,” Kareem remembered. “But we didn’t compete; I was like a drawing board on which he could work out his theories and he was instructing me how to deal with people and attack him.”
> At first, Bruce told Mito that Big Lew was slow, his arms were weak, and he wasn’t good at chi sao. A reporter who witnessed one of their workouts was more impressed with Bruce than Big Lew. He wrote that Bruce could “leap and kick over Alcindor’s head, and says he can defeat him by taking advantage of his shin and thigh with a kick.”
> But Bruce soon realized all that was irrelevant. Even if he could get inside Big Lew’s reach, it wasn’t easy. And with his front kick, Big Lew could rattle the rim of the basket. Bruce’s Wing Chun skills were all but useless. He joked with Doug Palmer, “Try doing chi sao with someone when you’re staring at his belly button.” Bruce called Taky and told him not to focus on chi sao in the school anymore.
> “Bruce and I sparred regularly,” Kareem remembered. “But we didn’t compete; I was like a drawing board on which he could work out his theories and he was instructing me how to deal with people and attack him.”
Both learned from each other, but if you read the article Lee was training Jamar in martial arts. Jamar was not training him in basketball, he was just being a tall prop for Lee to train himself.
> Jamar
Side note. Interesting typo. Both B and M are voiced bilabial consonants. Are you using a speech-to-text device by any chance?
Side note. Interesting typo. Both B and M are voiced bilabial consonants. Are you using a speech-to-text device by any chance?
>told him not to focus on chi sao in the school anymore
the day Bruce learned about Bullshido
the day Bruce learned about Bullshido
If you're going to use a foreign word for teacher, shifu would likely be more appropriate than sensei. Lee's martial arts were rooted in Chinese tradition, not Japanese.
Sifu, rather, which would be the Cantonese version (Lee was a Cantonese speaker and didn't speak Mandarin)
Weird the red panda's name is Master Shifu
Yeah, that's "Master Master", just like Chai Tea, which means "Tea Tea" and East Timor, which means "East East".
You mean Timor Leste, which still means 'East East', but they decided to replace the English bit with Portugese.
Or "River Avon"
The master teacher.
Ahh I took it as master master
That's more accurate. Shifu is just intended to translate the English "master".†
Note that it isn't the Chinese word for "teacher", which is 老师 laoshi. (Same "shi".) Shifu is a different title.
ABC provides these glosses:
-----
师傅 shīfu
1. master worker
2. tutor of a king/emperor
3. [PRC] general term of address in the late 70s and 80s
4. [courteous] term of address for service workers [such as a carpenter]
-----
The Tuttle Learner's Dictionary provides this note:
> 师傅 shīfu is [] a polite form of address to a worker. For example, an electrician or a mechanic can be addressed as 师傅, or, if his family name is 李, 李师傅.
It is how martial arts instructors are addressed, but not how teachers are addressed. Teachers are white-collar.
† In the movie, it's pronounced with the FLEECE vowel, as if it were the English words "she foo", for no reason that I can understand. To an English speaker, the Mandarin word will sound like "shiffoo", using KIT and not FLEECE in the first syllable.
Note that it isn't the Chinese word for "teacher", which is 老师 laoshi. (Same "shi".) Shifu is a different title.
ABC provides these glosses:
-----
师傅 shīfu
1. master worker
2. tutor of a king/emperor
3. [PRC] general term of address in the late 70s and 80s
4. [courteous] term of address for service workers [such as a carpenter]
-----
The Tuttle Learner's Dictionary provides this note:
> 师傅 shīfu is [] a polite form of address to a worker. For example, an electrician or a mechanic can be addressed as 师傅, or, if his family name is 李, 李师傅.
It is how martial arts instructors are addressed, but not how teachers are addressed. Teachers are white-collar.
† In the movie, it's pronounced with the FLEECE vowel, as if it were the English words "she foo", for no reason that I can understand. To an English speaker, the Mandarin word will sound like "shiffoo", using KIT and not FLEECE in the first syllable.
Why weird? That movie is also set in China.