Ask HN: Career Burnout Looking for Options
Hi HN,
Long time lurker and occasional contributor here. I recently moved to a "high-growth" Startup after spending some significant time in enterprise/corporate. It turned out be a mutual "culture mis-fit" issue. I am burnt-out within the first two weeks of being there and I have asked them to terminate my employment immediately so that I can file for unemployment with state of California(my home state). Right now I am in a technical non-software/Hardware role and have been for the last 20 years since graduating from Grad-school. I tried pivoting into the "next shiny object" several times to no-avail(AR/VR/DS/ML/AI). I even tried getting into the whole "Leetcode" FAANG rat race and eventually gave up on that. I am contemplating on what my next potential career move could be. Truth be told, I have the financial security both from my savings, 401Ks and a spouse who is gainfully employed in a tech role at one of the Big-tech companies(that has a product in every "office"). So, I could just "retire" now and pursue other things. But, I want to lead a productive life , doing something meaningful and worthwhile with the time active work time I have on my hands(I am 47 will turn 48 this feb). Son will be off to college next year and won't have any time pressures. His college fund is taken care of. 80,000 hrs was suggested before. And so was techjobsforgood mentioned before (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40325501). A few of my core-strengths - I am generally a good person to be around, have always made good relationships with my peers and external vendors. So though not a people manager person, I like working with people. Sorry for the rant, but I am in huge mental turmoil and any iota of collective wisdom from HN would just save me not just my career but my "mid-life crisis" as well. I find posting this to HN much more therapeutic than to say "Chat with GPT". Thanks for reading.
28 comments
I would echo the sentiment of taking some time. The way to think of this is not as "time off" - but acknowledging that you have the time and space (and resources) to thoughtfully consider your next move. Don't make important decisions under a time-pressure that is self-imposed. Instead, take a month to consider what you want to do during the next state of life - and be grateful that you have the opportunity to consider your next move from this point of view.
Thanks!. Very thoughtfully framed around gratitude.
If you only had 1 year left to live, what would you do?
Do that. If it gets old, switch gears immediately.
As far as we all know, today could be the last for any of us. Less planning, more living/doing/going.
Do that. If it gets old, switch gears immediately.
As far as we all know, today could be the last for any of us. Less planning, more living/doing/going.
interesting thought. I have this "side project" that I started working with some ex-colleagues that I could see sprouting some legs. My CA UI(unemployment insurance) benefits could potentially fund this for the time being when I do some soul searching and contemplating.
This is the right answer I think
I did this a few years ago after the layoff wave and it was transformative
I did this a few years ago after the layoff wave and it was transformative
I agree with Andrew, side projects are a great way to rediscover joy. From my own experience:
- Decompress and seek fun, instead of aiming to "get a project done". Follow whatever excites you. If nothing excites you, step away from the keyboard. Go for a walk, bring a notebook.
- The Artist's Way is great for processing burnout, and self-discovery. One does not need to consider themselves an artist to find the book useful. ( https://juliacameronlive.com/book/the-artists-way-a-spiritua... )
You mention hardware, have you made a silly hardware thing recently? I can recommend running Rust on an esp32, lots of fun.
- Decompress and seek fun, instead of aiming to "get a project done". Follow whatever excites you. If nothing excites you, step away from the keyboard. Go for a walk, bring a notebook.
- The Artist's Way is great for processing burnout, and self-discovery. One does not need to consider themselves an artist to find the book useful. ( https://juliacameronlive.com/book/the-artists-way-a-spiritua... )
You mention hardware, have you made a silly hardware thing recently? I can recommend running Rust on an esp32, lots of fun.
Thanks for the book recommendation. Seems like an interesting book. Have seen it recommended a few times here in HN already
Another question to ask is what you’d do when you retire. This really helped me figure out what to focus on now.
Questions like “what would you do if you won the lottery” feel too unrealistic, so I would just dream about wild startup ideas.
The “one year left to live” question is better than the lottery question, but thinking about retirement may provide another perspective.
Questions like “what would you do if you won the lottery” feel too unrealistic, so I would just dream about wild startup ideas.
The “one year left to live” question is better than the lottery question, but thinking about retirement may provide another perspective.
I'd recommend (if you can afford it of course) to take some time off and see if you can work on something for yourself without a deadline or someone in your ear, just peace and building. Like a structured hobby.
Do you like working? If you like working and solving problems, it sounds like you have some time to learn new skills and find a company that would value your contributions.
There are small companies/startups that would presumably trade your experience and a desire to not be overworked for a moderate salary.
You obviously can't act like you're looking for a 'chill' job in the interview, but you can be on the lookout for companies that are a bit more relaxed, and if you aren't trying to maximize your comp, they probably will be OK if you don't put in 'startup hours'
There are small companies/startups that would presumably trade your experience and a desire to not be overworked for a moderate salary.
You obviously can't act like you're looking for a 'chill' job in the interview, but you can be on the lookout for companies that are a bit more relaxed, and if you aren't trying to maximize your comp, they probably will be OK if you don't put in 'startup hours'
I would suggest reading Strength to Strength by Arthur C. Brooks. I do not agree with everything in it, but it does talk about the common problem of wanting to shift to a life of meaning and connections and possibly giving back. I am not sure if everyone ends up finding a purpose, but some do, myself included. I am deeply thankful for that. Looking at baby pictures is helpful to me, my kids, friends etc. How long a way we have come.
Sorry that you are experiencing this.
It's hard to give advice on this sort of topic because I think it is very personal and everyone has unique circumstances.
Have you considered just taking some time off, potentially focusing on hobbies or personal projects and maybe after some so called "down" time an answer would be more clear?
It's hard to give advice on this sort of topic because I think it is very personal and everyone has unique circumstances.
Have you considered just taking some time off, potentially focusing on hobbies or personal projects and maybe after some so called "down" time an answer would be more clear?
Thanks!. Yes. Definitely one of the TOP priorities right now is to "Take the time off" and assess my priorities. In fact, my sons's College Apps could use some help :-)
What worked for me (not saying this will work for you but just to give ideas) is I told myself I couldn't do any sort of development for a couple of weeks at the very least. Get off the computer as much as possible and do other things.
I did a lot of walking, listening to and reading books/audiobooks, hanging out in coffee shops, meeting up with friends.
After my self imposed ban from the computer I started to get the itch to develop again and started working on stuff I wanted to work on and not something I was told to develop.
I did a lot of walking, listening to and reading books/audiobooks, hanging out in coffee shops, meeting up with friends.
After my self imposed ban from the computer I started to get the itch to develop again and started working on stuff I wanted to work on and not something I was told to develop.
I don't have advice, all I wanted to say is: As a software developer who will almost certainly never retire, with little savings and living in a craphole of a country somewhere far from the USA, I wish I could be in your position.
I think Hashimoto has the right idea with Ghostty. If you have the financial / time freedom (and the spousal support) to tinker with a passion project, that seems like a great way to spend your time and skills without commercial pressures contributing to burnout.
I always like Neal Stephenson’s approach with his Sci-Fi novels too. Most of them have a central conceit based around a topic he wanted to learn more about (linguistics, nanotech, cryptography, etc…), so in essence writing the novel was just an excuse to obsess about that topic for a while.
I always like Neal Stephenson’s approach with his Sci-Fi novels too. Most of them have a central conceit based around a topic he wanted to learn more about (linguistics, nanotech, cryptography, etc…), so in essence writing the novel was just an excuse to obsess about that topic for a while.
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Have you considered stepping away from startups and shiny-thing, fast growth companies and looking for a role in a company for whom software is not their primary product, or that are in slower moving industries ? Try out insurance/banking, telecommunications, or industrial equipment manufacturers.
Do a lifestyle startup? Your terms, one man shop type shit.
Or become a consultant?
I’m sure there are things you’re passionate about (doesn’t have to be tech only, maybe you’re a hobbyist carpenter) and know deeply that you can share (for a price) with others.
Or become a consultant?
I’m sure there are things you’re passionate about (doesn’t have to be tech only, maybe you’re a hobbyist carpenter) and know deeply that you can share (for a price) with others.
I did for a while, then I burned out of that, too.
A one man software business is very unlike being a craftsman; the work becomes a small part compared to having to do marketing, public relations, accounting, management (of external contractors to whom you hopefully delegate some work load). The problem also is that software never ends.
I figured I like being a craftsman, an artisan on well-defined projects that have a start and a natural end; not a salesman that also needs to find time to work on their eternally-growing product.
A one man software business is very unlike being a craftsman; the work becomes a small part compared to having to do marketing, public relations, accounting, management (of external contractors to whom you hopefully delegate some work load). The problem also is that software never ends.
I figured I like being a craftsman, an artisan on well-defined projects that have a start and a natural end; not a salesman that also needs to find time to work on their eternally-growing product.
> I have asked them to terminate my employment immediately so that I can file for unemployment with state of California(my home state).
You don’t ever need anyone’s permission to file for unemployment but telling somebody, “I need you to fire me” is probably not going to work in your favor.
And isn’t max benefit in CA $450/week? I get that it’s better than nothing but you’re probably earning a lot more than that.
> So, I could just "retire" now and pursue other things. But, I want to lead a productive life
From an outside perspective this is a wild statement. Why not retire and pursue a productive life?
Do you really have a clear personal definition of what a productive life looks like to you or is it 100% defined by “working”?
You might be interested in the book Tiny Experiments. It seems like from your track record you set these big goals and then move onto another before seeing anything through? And you feel like you missed out because you never “achieved” what you thought you wanted?
This book presents a very different approach to life that will probably seem very foreign to you but might be interesting and worth pursuing.
I also recommend Tao Te Ching to everyone.
You don’t ever need anyone’s permission to file for unemployment but telling somebody, “I need you to fire me” is probably not going to work in your favor.
And isn’t max benefit in CA $450/week? I get that it’s better than nothing but you’re probably earning a lot more than that.
> So, I could just "retire" now and pursue other things. But, I want to lead a productive life
From an outside perspective this is a wild statement. Why not retire and pursue a productive life?
Do you really have a clear personal definition of what a productive life looks like to you or is it 100% defined by “working”?
You might be interested in the book Tiny Experiments. It seems like from your track record you set these big goals and then move onto another before seeing anything through? And you feel like you missed out because you never “achieved” what you thought you wanted?
This book presents a very different approach to life that will probably seem very foreign to you but might be interesting and worth pursuing.
I also recommend Tao Te Ching to everyone.
Thanks for the book recommendations. Will absolutely check them out. No productive life for me is to be of “some use to others”. That’s what I am contemplating about. Also true regarding jumping from one goal to another without seeing the previous one through. Need to work on that too.
After burning out I thought through several business ideas, but ended up starting a fruit tree farm and getting a motorcycle. Having a blast!
Nice :-)
If don't need the money, volunteer somewhere.