Bitcoin tumbles below $70k, wiping out gains since Trump 2024 win(reuters.com)
reuters.com
Bitcoin tumbles below $70k, wiping out gains since Trump 2024 win
https://www.reuters.com/business/bitcoin-slumps-with-key-70000-level-sight-2026-02-05/
66 comments
The Bitcoin ecosystem, folks looking at it as an investment / get rich pathway, all the scam / poorly run companies, straight up crime ... really seems to fly in the face of the whitepaper and presumed ethos.
To a first approximation ~nobody who "invests" in crypto has read a whitepaper or considered the ethos.
It's one of the bugs/features of crypto.
It's one of the bugs/features of crypto.
I don't doubt it, but the sort of "I'm escaping the financial systems that is stacked against me" attitudes are prevalent among folks, the ethos lives on in a weird sort of way ... but really individuals are going to a worse place more often than not.
You're right, but the people that say they're pilled/sticking it to the man/breaking out of the matrix -- they're just parroting things they saw on X or tiktok. And then shuffling their money based on that.
They haven't researched or thought about any of this, otherwise they wouldn't be reducing finance to repeating someone else's soundbytes.
There's no ethos there, it's just reposts. Yes, it is weird.
They haven't researched or thought about any of this, otherwise they wouldn't be reducing finance to repeating someone else's soundbytes.
There's no ethos there, it's just reposts. Yes, it is weird.
So basically bitcoin is the finance equivalent of fascism/extremism?
It promises something better than the current broken system. And people end and up not looking too hard for / are willfully blind to, the flaws, until it inevitably bites them in the arse.
It promises something better than the current broken system. And people end and up not looking too hard for / are willfully blind to, the flaws, until it inevitably bites them in the arse.
The ethos assumes a world in which Bitcoin has become widely accepted as a currency and reached a stable exchange rate.
That world wasn't necessarily impossible. Imagine that the US reconceived the dollar as a coin, and everybody simply accepted it as a replacement currency. Potentially, a very large bank or credit card company could have done that with a stablecoin pegged to the dollar.
But that's not what happened. Bitcoin was never adopted as a currency so there was no way to anchor its value. Infinite shitcoins popped up, making cryptocurrency as a whole the most inflationary system in the universe (because anybody can mint their own coins). The whitepaper never considered that possibility.
It's still possible that the US government could decide to start taking BTC for payment of taxes, at some fixed exchange rate. That would anchor the price of BTC, and the whitepaper ethos could find a foothold.
That world wasn't necessarily impossible. Imagine that the US reconceived the dollar as a coin, and everybody simply accepted it as a replacement currency. Potentially, a very large bank or credit card company could have done that with a stablecoin pegged to the dollar.
But that's not what happened. Bitcoin was never adopted as a currency so there was no way to anchor its value. Infinite shitcoins popped up, making cryptocurrency as a whole the most inflationary system in the universe (because anybody can mint their own coins). The whitepaper never considered that possibility.
It's still possible that the US government could decide to start taking BTC for payment of taxes, at some fixed exchange rate. That would anchor the price of BTC, and the whitepaper ethos could find a foothold.
IMO it was always a bad fit for a prospective currency, since its nature is tilted towards deflation, a speculative asset to be hoarded while everyone continues to conduct normal "I need a sandwich" business in anything else.
The absurdity behind Bitcoin is that Bitcoin proponents basically think money that should emulate the dysfunctional real estate market.
Basically the premise is that you need to get in early or you're screwed forever. So what do you do? You create an asset where you are the one who gets to be first this time and gets to screw over others.
Basically the premise is that you need to get in early or you're screwed forever. So what do you do? You create an asset where you are the one who gets to be first this time and gets to screw over others.
> The ethos assumes a world in which Bitcoin has become widely accepted as a currency... That world wasn't necessarily impossible.
That world has always been a hallucination at best and a cruel deception at worst, but it's never been possible and never will be.
> Bitcoin was never adopted as a currency
It was and it is, it's not a central bank currency but the promise of BTC is the opposite of that. BTC is officially tradable in the US, you can exchange it for dollars to pay your taxes.
> so there was no way to anchor its value.
The promise of BTC has never been "anchored value"... it's always been a "to the moon" scam.
> It's still possible that the US government could... anchor the price of BTC, the whitepaper ethos could find a foothold.
That cannot happen without invalidating everything written in the white paper, in other words that wouldn't be Bitcoin anymore and nothing like that could function in the current financial system.
That world has always been a hallucination at best and a cruel deception at worst, but it's never been possible and never will be.
> Bitcoin was never adopted as a currency
It was and it is, it's not a central bank currency but the promise of BTC is the opposite of that. BTC is officially tradable in the US, you can exchange it for dollars to pay your taxes.
> so there was no way to anchor its value.
The promise of BTC has never been "anchored value"... it's always been a "to the moon" scam.
> It's still possible that the US government could... anchor the price of BTC, the whitepaper ethos could find a foothold.
That cannot happen without invalidating everything written in the white paper, in other words that wouldn't be Bitcoin anymore and nothing like that could function in the current financial system.
Good point. It's strange as it seems like using Bitcoin to buy things is structurally difficult anyway. If that should have held the price stable ... it isn't very good at doing that thing.
The presumed ethos flew out the door the second that fundamentals were traded for chasing the very asset bitcoin was trying to replace (an inevitability vis-a-vis human behavior).
That said, I don't think it's "dead," but rather showing itself for what it is: a well-intentioned attempt at solving corruption of money, predictably co-opted by (and made the bitch of) the very forces it sought to replace. Now, it seems to best exist as a secondary financial rail that you can use if and when it suits your needs.
The original ideological base case failed miserably, unfortunately (sound money).
That said, I don't think it's "dead," but rather showing itself for what it is: a well-intentioned attempt at solving corruption of money, predictably co-opted by (and made the bitch of) the very forces it sought to replace. Now, it seems to best exist as a secondary financial rail that you can use if and when it suits your needs.
The original ideological base case failed miserably, unfortunately (sound money).
The gov has zero incentive to give up Keynesian (or worse, mmp) controls.
Money is supposed to be a cheap lubricant and not something that becomes more expensive over time until no one can afford it.
Edit:
Imagine if the lubricants in your car get more expensive and you can't afford them anymore, then your car stops working, then you lose your job, you lose your apartment/house.
Now imagine if someone made a universal lubricant that society both runs and depends on. If society runs out of lubricant because it is too expensive, then everything will fail. Having society overflow with excess lubricant will cause issues, but it will still work better than without.
Edit:
Imagine if the lubricants in your car get more expensive and you can't afford them anymore, then your car stops working, then you lose your job, you lose your apartment/house.
Now imagine if someone made a universal lubricant that society both runs and depends on. If society runs out of lubricant because it is too expensive, then everything will fail. Having society overflow with excess lubricant will cause issues, but it will still work better than without.
In spite of its issues, it seems like Monero is the only mainstream cryptocurrency that actually still lives up to the ethos of what Satoshi had in mind.
I 100% agree and don't understand why Monero isn't talked about more. I own none of it but it accomplishes everything the crypto bro's talk about.
Except for letting them pump and dump suckers?
It's not talked about because all the crypto bros talk about is number go up.
And for that you don't even need a functional cryptocurrency.
And for that you don't even need a functional cryptocurrency.
No worries, they wanted to be considered a currency, and now with Trump's grift economy, they're really making a good case they're just as useless as real currency and even better for grift!
Wall Street is not doing well at the moment[1] and is probably calling on it's hedges[2] - including Bitcoin - to cover losses.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46904619
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance)
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46904619
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance)
My guess is that Bitcoin was never a actual hedge. But instead fully speculative gambling. Hedge is really something someone would want in market correction or something that keeps value in such. Bitcoin never was actually wanted for anything but gambling.
The markets have hardly moved yet and there are far bigger dips and faster dips within the last year which did not have such an effect https://i.imgur.com/nYSdiUN.png. I also agree with the sibling it doesn't really make sense to call Bitcoin a hedge if it's supposed to drop with the market.
Bitcoin has been declared dead many times:
https://bitcoindeaths.com/
It just keeps on existing.
https://bitcoindeaths.com/
It just keeps on existing.
AFAIK, after all the hype around Bitcoin proved to be false, the last justification for owning it among people who can't think straight was as a systemic risk hedge, like gold, but this has also not borne out.
I don't doubt the faithful's ability to conjure up some other BS story for why it's worth owning, but there has to be something.
I don't doubt the faithful's ability to conjure up some other BS story for why it's worth owning, but there has to be something.
> Bitcoin has been declared dead many times
This is also true of Boeing, Citigroup and the Argentinian peso.
Looking at the actual quotes on that website, I'm struggling to find the word death (or a synonym). Instead, it's a collection of criticisms. Many of them wrong. But not many showing thoughtless dismissal.
This is also true of Boeing, Citigroup and the Argentinian peso.
Looking at the actual quotes on that website, I'm struggling to find the word death (or a synonym). Instead, it's a collection of criticisms. Many of them wrong. But not many showing thoughtless dismissal.
> Looking at the actual quotes on that website, I'm struggling to find the word death (or a synonym).
Start at the bottom of https://bitcoindeaths.com/posts and scroll up. You will find many prominent declarations of imminent death or failure, including "So, That's The End of Bitcoin Then" (2011), "Bitcoin Sees the Grim Reaper" (2013), and "An Early Obituary for Bitcoin" (2014).
Start at the bottom of https://bitcoindeaths.com/posts and scroll up. You will find many prominent declarations of imminent death or failure, including "So, That's The End of Bitcoin Then" (2011), "Bitcoin Sees the Grim Reaper" (2013), and "An Early Obituary for Bitcoin" (2014).
I found a "RIP: Bitcoin" from a self described conspiracy theorist.
A number of them suggest that it'll become worthless in the future, but that's certainly not saying it's dead now.
A number of them suggest that it'll become worthless in the future, but that's certainly not saying it's dead now.
As long as crime exists BTC will follow
Aren't stablecoins better for that? Especially when the current US government is seemingly OK with a very centralized entity holding over $100 billion in T-bonds, backing a coin that's mostly used for pig butchering scams and sanction evasion. No need to pretend blockchains are remotely useful with such actors (BNB comes to mind too).
I'm glad you're still around here. I've been combing old HN threads and found your posts and comments from several years ago defending BTC.
Hope your belief in the system has paid off incredibly well for you.
Hope your belief in the system has paid off incredibly well for you.
Bitcoin isn't going to die, but it isn't going to replace currency or gold. It'll remain as a speculation vehicle and a mechanism to move value outside of regulated financial systems.
Interesting... so, what is the most straight-forward and least shady way of investing in it?
> It just keeps on existing.
That is not in itself a recommendation. You could say the same of most infectious diseases and parasites, or antisocial acts.
That is not in itself a recommendation. You could say the same of most infectious diseases and parasites, or antisocial acts.
>you'd have $70,482,477 today
I wish COVID had that ROI.
I wish COVID had that ROI.
> I wish COVID had that ROI.
It had it... for some, same as BTC.
It had it... for some, same as BTC.
Bitcoin goes up, bitcoin goes down, you can't explain that.
Seriously though, bitcoin has always been highly volatile, is this really a story?
Seriously though, bitcoin has always been highly volatile, is this really a story?
It's a speculative instrument useful for enabling criminal activity and not much else.
Still overvalued by about $70k.
Seems like Saylor is aiming for the biggest negative unrealised p/l ever.
I don't think the BTC market is worth playing unless you are good at knowing how the whales (who control it in its entirety) operate.
Everyone already knows BTC will be back at 110 in a few months. It might dip to 30 first, who the hell knows.
Everyone already knows BTC will be back at 110 in a few months. It might dip to 30 first, who the hell knows.
What can the whales do that is unclear until its over?
They can all sell massively to drive the price down, then all re-buy massively?
They can all sell massively to drive the price down, then all re-buy massively?
They'll have to pay taxes on the sales, it's an attrition game and BTC is on losing side. Most retail "investors" are cooked.
Act like you've been here before.
It will be back up next week
Why? It’s a pure fiat currency with limited real-world adoption, what reason will people have to favor it over the alternatives next week which they don’t have today?
Figure out why it has gone up and up all these years while being a “pure fiat currency with limited real-world adoption”, and you’ll have your answer.
Why don’t you tell us, focusing on what will be sticky? For example, will wealthy Chinese people evading capital controls or Russians avoiding sanctions stick with Bitcoin at a loss?
Seems like the main reason it's gone up all these years is "Early adopters successfully evangelized to get more mainstream bigger-fools to buy from them at elevated prices".
At this point, Bitcoin is fully mainstream and the biggest fools have bought in. People hoped that the Trump election would mean a new giant pot of dumb money (government/tax dollars) would buy bitcoin, but now that they've realized Trump will just issue his own crypto memecoins that bet is unwinding.
I don't see where the buying is going to come from in the future. Every cab driver and retiree and stay-at-home-mom already knows about bitcoin. Maybe Tether prints another imaginary 10 billion dollars to buy bitcoin and prop up the price though, so it could still maintain for a while.
At this point, Bitcoin is fully mainstream and the biggest fools have bought in. People hoped that the Trump election would mean a new giant pot of dumb money (government/tax dollars) would buy bitcoin, but now that they've realized Trump will just issue his own crypto memecoins that bet is unwinding.
I don't see where the buying is going to come from in the future. Every cab driver and retiree and stay-at-home-mom already knows about bitcoin. Maybe Tether prints another imaginary 10 billion dollars to buy bitcoin and prop up the price though, so it could still maintain for a while.
The other thing I see is that only existing holders have much loyalty to that particular blockchain. Nobody else has a vested interest in using their funds to re-inflate the net worth of people who bought Bitcoin before them, and it’s easy to create a new blockchain where you’re not buying at a disadvantage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage
Sure, you can create a new blockchain, but you probably won't overtake the first and most popular, however good your tech is. Also, your comment suggests, as it is often the case, that new blockchains are created not because they are better than all other cryptocurrencies, but rather as a pump-and-dump scheme, and that's the primary reason the whole field has such a terrible reputation.
In any case, first-mover advantage is another reason why it's highly likely Bitcoin will remain the cryptocurrency with the largest market cap.
Sure, you can create a new blockchain, but you probably won't overtake the first and most popular, however good your tech is. Also, your comment suggests, as it is often the case, that new blockchains are created not because they are better than all other cryptocurrencies, but rather as a pump-and-dump scheme, and that's the primary reason the whole field has such a terrible reputation.
In any case, first-mover advantage is another reason why it's highly likely Bitcoin will remain the cryptocurrency with the largest market cap.
First mover advantage still requires some reason to stick, especially when it costs more. Almost nobody _needs_ Bitcoin – most people don’t use it at all so they have no reason to pay more for it and there’s almost no situation where that would be the only option. The only reason to buy in is hoping that there will be more demand in the future, and that can evaporate quickly as we’ve seen because a fiat currency like Bitcoin is valued on the strength of its backers and it doesn’t have anything like a country or large industry driving demand.
As long as the government continues to devalue the dollar, crypto is in a great position.
Speculating out several orders:
Once the new head of the fed takes over and pushes interest rate cuts per his bosses request, borrowing will get cheaper, money will flow and inflation will go up. The dollar will devalue. Congress will never stop going into a deficit with their spending bills as no one votes for austerity, requiring more and more money to be printed. Wages will not keep up with inflation as it skyrockets and taxes take an ever greater chunk of the workers check.
If things continue as they have been, at some point, the dollar will not be a good value proposition for average normal people to use for day to day exchange, and they will start to look into other options to maintain economic normalcy.
Crypto currency is poised to take over.
If you take speculation to even further orders beyond that... once people start to switch over to crypto en masse, the government will then start to track people's crypto usage to recoup it's tax money that it's losing.
Then privacy crypto currency will be poised to take over that.
Another interesting monkey wrench. The dollar is somewhat bastioned from inflation by being the worlds reserve currency. But imagine if the world lost faith in dollar and started to use something else like a EU or BRICS currency. I wonder how that would affect the dollars value?
Speculating out several orders:
Once the new head of the fed takes over and pushes interest rate cuts per his bosses request, borrowing will get cheaper, money will flow and inflation will go up. The dollar will devalue. Congress will never stop going into a deficit with their spending bills as no one votes for austerity, requiring more and more money to be printed. Wages will not keep up with inflation as it skyrockets and taxes take an ever greater chunk of the workers check.
If things continue as they have been, at some point, the dollar will not be a good value proposition for average normal people to use for day to day exchange, and they will start to look into other options to maintain economic normalcy.
Crypto currency is poised to take over.
If you take speculation to even further orders beyond that... once people start to switch over to crypto en masse, the government will then start to track people's crypto usage to recoup it's tax money that it's losing.
Then privacy crypto currency will be poised to take over that.
Another interesting monkey wrench. The dollar is somewhat bastioned from inflation by being the worlds reserve currency. But imagine if the world lost faith in dollar and started to use something else like a EU or BRICS currency. I wonder how that would affect the dollars value?
More likely americans will start trading in € or £ cash, on a parallel market. The same way argentinians are doing it now with $.
There's no euro or francs in America.
But there is uniswap on your phone.
Heck I think cash app lets you send crypto.
Surely there were no dollars in argentina as well, right? Yet now there is.
... Are you claiming that Americans can't easily buy euro?
I don't think the euro is known as a bastion of fiscal stability.
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BlackRock & Wall Street funds/banks pumped Bitcoin for the past couple of years. They slowly started dumping 2 months ago, before the Epstein emails. I'm sure they had no insider information and it's a total coincidence. /s
When the US dollar definitively loses its status as the reserve currency of the world there is no great competitor to replace it.
Bitcoin has features which make it uniquely appropriate for this: namely that no other currency is so resistant to debasement.
I anticipate it will recover and set new records.
Bitcoin has features which make it uniquely appropriate for this: namely that no other currency is so resistant to debasement.
I anticipate it will recover and set new records.
Russia-Ukraine war is being wound down and Russian sanctions will be lifted probably in the next 1-2 months. Crypto is the financial tissue that connects sanctioned entities to non-sanctioned Western banks. What you are seeing is Russians and other sanctioned entities dumping their coins since they won't be needed soon.
I wonder if it's more tied to what's going on Iran. I remember in the twenty teens and the people I knew in China we using a bitcoin to family in Vancouver pipeline to get their money out. I have to assume the Iranians were doing something similar (and have heard rumors).
This is quite a wild take — but I‘m willing to not dismiss it outright. Not that I’m in any position or capacity to know anything more than the next guy about these matters. But it has a „so wild it could actually be true“ vibe.