Typing and Keyboards(lzon.ca)
lzon.ca
Typing and Keyboards
https://lzon.ca/posts/series/grateful/typing-and-keyboards/
75 comments
The whole premise of "correct" typing on a traditional keyboard is absurd. It's trying to force good ergonomics into a system that is simply incompatible with it. You're better off either making yourself compatible with the system, or vice versa.
I type "incorrectly" on traditional qwerty keyboards, too. I also type "correctly" on my split ergonomic keyboard, using the workman layout. As far as I can tell, I'm not any faster with either; but I definitely enjoy using the ergonomic keyboard more.
I type "incorrectly" on traditional qwerty keyboards, too. I also type "correctly" on my split ergonomic keyboard, using the workman layout. As far as I can tell, I'm not any faster with either; but I definitely enjoy using the ergonomic keyboard more.
This sounds like me. I've been described as "high speed hunt and peck". I have slowed down a bit in the last decade or so, but I can still type fast enough for everything I want to do. I've had no reason to pursue anything different because it's not an impediment to my work.
I'd like to how the incidence of repetitive strain injury from typing compares between populations who follow a rigorous technique versus personalized. I've never had the slightest discomfort typing, albeit I'm sure I'm not in the upper echelons of typing quantity per unit of time either.
I'd like to how the incidence of repetitive strain injury from typing compares between populations who follow a rigorous technique versus personalized. I've never had the slightest discomfort typing, albeit I'm sure I'm not in the upper echelons of typing quantity per unit of time either.
Try taking 3 1 minute typing tests back to back at your full speed and maybe you'll feel a little something. Any discomforts I had mainly revealed themselves under heavy loads like this. If you never type a lot in a row, it can be easy to miss
I did similar as a kid, weird random typing, mostly left hand, thumb used for some of the letters, etc. If you're willing to dedicate 2-4 weeks of fully immersed proper typing, you can definitely undo the old habits. Takes a bit longer to regain your old speeds, but it's mainly the very beginning that is frustrating. Whether that's worth it is hard to say. I use both shift keys now, and a split ergonomic keyboard. The numrow is easier to hit accurately as I have internalized the placement as well as the rows of letters after a lot more typing practice (columnar stagger rather than row stagger also helps, I think, I slide my fingers straight up and know which numbers are there).
Yeah, I've been told this. And I can type the "right" way at like 40-60 wpm. But I haven't seen any real reason to bother.
I also mostly use only my thumbs and index fingers, but probably only up to 60 words a minute because that is how fast (or slow) I think.
I always thought I was a touch typist because I rarely look at the keyboard. But then I got a keyboard with blank keycaps and realise how very much I rely on my peripheral vision.
I always thought I was a touch typist because I rarely look at the keyboard. But then I got a keyboard with blank keycaps and realise how very much I rely on my peripheral vision.
I kind of wonder what the key difference is over 40 years for typing text vs code.
I type text at a rather slow rate due to poor training and never having really tried to improve, but when it comes to code I can output code sequences so much faster.
I type text at a rather slow rate due to poor training and never having really tried to improve, but when it comes to code I can output code sequences so much faster.
120 wpm using mostly thumb and index fingers sounds insane to me. I type using standard touch typing and can only get to about 60 wpm. I've always been a bit of a slow typist. Can I ask how you measured the 120 wpm?
Just the standard online typing tests you can find by googling. In fairness, 120wpm is a maximum. I'm often slower than that. But always over 100.
Edit: For those who are curious, I took this test: https://www.typing.com/student/typing-test/1-minute and got 116 wpm at 99% accuracy.
At https://www.typingtest.com/benchmark.php over two minutes, 117 wpm at 97% accuracy.
Edit: For those who are curious, I took this test: https://www.typing.com/student/typing-test/1-minute and got 116 wpm at 99% accuracy.
At https://www.typingtest.com/benchmark.php over two minutes, 117 wpm at 97% accuracy.
I'm a fan of scissor switch keyboards, which I think makes me a bit odd - I got used to them from laptops and now I have an MX Keys Mini that I really like. I like the short travel and the tactile nature of them - I tried a slim mechanical (Nuphy Air75) but it still slowed me down considerably and was uncomfortable. I touch type but not home-row, so maybe my chaotic typing style doesn't work on heavier keys.
I just received this Keychron B11 Pro semi-split kbd with scissor keys:
https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-b11-pro-ultra-sli...
pretty amazing so far. put together a SpaceFn layout, with partial home row keys, in no time, with their web usb based, online configurator.
i tried and/or assembled keyboard.io model 01, (falba.tech bamboo) minidox, troy fletcher signum 3.0, egodox ez, leopold, glove80 before, but this device is a pretty amazing compromise among many dimensions, like portability, price, familiarity, split-ness, extra layers, thumb keys, connectivity, portability.
what's clearly not great is its serviceablilty and only time will tell how durable is it.
if the battery dies in it and puffs up, it's most likely have to be thrown away, so it's not really an end-game keyboard, in that sense.
https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-b11-pro-ultra-sli...
pretty amazing so far. put together a SpaceFn layout, with partial home row keys, in no time, with their web usb based, online configurator.
i tried and/or assembled keyboard.io model 01, (falba.tech bamboo) minidox, troy fletcher signum 3.0, egodox ez, leopold, glove80 before, but this device is a pretty amazing compromise among many dimensions, like portability, price, familiarity, split-ness, extra layers, thumb keys, connectivity, portability.
what's clearly not great is its serviceablilty and only time will tell how durable is it.
if the battery dies in it and puffs up, it's most likely have to be thrown away, so it's not really an end-game keyboard, in that sense.
I definitely prefer shorter travel keys too - full size MX feels like an unnecessary workout. Though personally the mechanical ones with a bit more distance than scissor is where I think my sweet spot lies. And Mac's butterfly keyboards are way too short, they slow me down noticeably.
Yeah same, even after years of gaming I still prefer laptop style short travel keys. Slim mechanical are good but still not quite the same. The official apple separate keyboards are my favourite but currently I use a keychron k1.
Hey, me too! I do touch typing with home row and tried using mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches, but eventually switched to scissor switches. I like them for the same reasons as you.
I never learnt how to touch-type, until I moved to a different keyboard layout (namely bepo [0]).
I recommend finding a good keyboard you enjoy using, but it's a bit annoying if you need to carry it around. Whatever you do, don't be afraid to try some ortholinear versions or split ones!
I sometimes like to use dictation nowadays, but I found out I tend to be much more concise when I type, compared to when I dictate (but thank god for easily available great dictation systems nowadays! [1]).
[0]: https://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil
[1]: although, dictating terminal commands or code is too much of a hassle
I recommend finding a good keyboard you enjoy using, but it's a bit annoying if you need to carry it around. Whatever you do, don't be afraid to try some ortholinear versions or split ones!
I sometimes like to use dictation nowadays, but I found out I tend to be much more concise when I type, compared to when I dictate (but thank god for easily available great dictation systems nowadays! [1]).
[0]: https://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil
[1]: although, dictating terminal commands or code is too much of a hassle
How do people (especially programmers) actually type )_+={}\'"
I know the touch typing says they're all typed by pinky, but after so many years it still doesn't feel right for me. Why is the weakest finger in charge of so many keys?
I know the touch typing says they're all typed by pinky, but after so many years it still doesn't feel right for me. Why is the weakest finger in charge of so many keys?
I have "Shift space" remapped to underscore as that was my biggest annoyance. The rest I've made peace with (though not ergonomic).
I guess, having just tried it, I use my pinky for []. But, it is not so bad, realistically the actions are
Hit [type whatever goes in here, hit ]
I have written many scripts with succinct wording. There were absolutely more non-alphanumeric character. Try Perl, it's fun.
I mapped them to the row above the home row, in order of bendy complication. So it's {[<(/ for the left hand, and \)>]} for the right. I just hold them down for the punctuation instead of letters. So much easier, imo.
I have an Ergodox EZ setup with a layer switch under my left thumb to a code-symbols layer on my right hand, formatted kinda like numpad but for brackets and boolean math. It’s been a good way for me to eliminate a lot of pinky use
tbh when typing both together, I just shift my hand and press with my index and middle fingers. otherwise it's my pinky.
parens are third and fourth finger
=+ is my palm (weird keyboard I know)
[]{} I used a modifier key to put them on O and P directly below () (columnar keyboard)
-_ and \| are actually pinky
I don't feel like any particular finger is overloaded. Dvorak helps a lot with that IMHO.
=+ is my palm (weird keyboard I know)
[]{} I used a modifier key to put them on O and P directly below () (columnar keyboard)
-_ and \| are actually pinky
I don't feel like any particular finger is overloaded. Dvorak helps a lot with that IMHO.
My journey went from using membrane keyboards (not knowing there was anything else available), to finding out about mechanical keyboards after watching a game streamer and his clacky keyboard, to going out and buying one...only to find out it was a membrane keyboard that was marketed as mechanical-like (!). After a few proper mechanical keyboards (trying to chase the 'thock'), then to low-profile, I'm now on a low-profile split mechanical keyboard, and I think this format is end game for me. The split helps a lot with ergonomics and just feels so natural, and the ortholinear setup just makes sense, despite the few weeks it took me to get used to it.
I was skeptical about the split keyboard, and living in an area that has no stores where I could try it out, I ended up buying a relatively cheap one from AliExpress. I swapped in my own switches and keycaps, and now it feels amazing to type on.
Being able to lean back on my chair while typing with each side sitting on the arm rest is amazing
I was skeptical about the split keyboard, and living in an area that has no stores where I could try it out, I ended up buying a relatively cheap one from AliExpress. I swapped in my own switches and keycaps, and now it feels amazing to type on.
Being able to lean back on my chair while typing with each side sitting on the arm rest is amazing
My back and shoulders felt so much better when I mounted my spliit keyboard floating under my desk, halves shoulder width apart. Not just arms on the armrests, shoulders back against the chair instead of rounded forward. I can't go back. Nevermind that typing that way with colemak and hardly moving my fingers feels like magic.
"Low-profile split mechanical" is I think my ideal too. Though I really like cupped keywells, the Advantage2 definitely convinced me that it's more comfortable than flat.
Tangentially related to the lack of computer literacy in younger generations, but there are a lot of speed demons on their phones these days. I have high confidence that there are more people in the US that can type faster than 50WPM with the default Android or iOS keyboard than a physical keyboard. At this point I would bet on a cheap phone shaped USB touchscreen to use as a keyboard with a PC. It would be a cool Kickstarter project if its not already before getting cloned by 6-7 companies if successful.
Also looking into using my phone as a keyboard as a write this comment too. I don't know why I have not looked into it sooner, but it seems like a no-brainer now that I am writing this out.
Also looking into using my phone as a keyboard as a write this comment too. I don't know why I have not looked into it sooner, but it seems like a no-brainer now that I am writing this out.
KDE has a phone connection program called KDE Connect that lets you use your phone as input.
Mavis Beacon thought me to touch type on my Amiga as a kid, and I'm grateful to her. In recent years I've been using a Logitech membrane keyboard. It's great for a membrane but mostly it's quiet. I work at night and that's a hard requirement. I'm looking for a mechanical as quiet as the Logitech and it's a struggle. Feels like there is a gap in the market for (really) quiet mechanicals.
My all time favorite was the Wang 724 keyboard.
http://blog.komar.be/wang-724-teardown/
Since then, it does not really matter which keyboard I use. Now I have a reddragon keyboard (Redragon K552 Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, 87-Key Compact). I picked that up a while ago because it does not use much space on the table/desk I have.
http://blog.komar.be/wang-724-teardown/
Since then, it does not really matter which keyboard I use. Now I have a reddragon keyboard (Redragon K552 Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, 87-Key Compact). I picked that up a while ago because it does not use much space on the table/desk I have.
I used to be a big keyboard enthusiast until I did a bunch of typing tests with many inexpensive keyboards. To my surprise, the data showed a statistically significant increase in my typing speed on several budget membrane keyboards.This disturbed me enough to fully convert back to membrane after all of these years.
For an idea of the scale, I typed about 140WPM on the HHKB and about 150WPM on the budget membranes.
For an idea of the scale, I typed about 140WPM on the HHKB and about 150WPM on the budget membranes.
I've heard this anecdotally. I'm enjoying my current setup but I do hold open the possibility of going back to membrane one day.
I bought the same keyboard when I was a teenager as my first "real" keyboard!
These days I have a ZSA Moonlander. I adore it! I love how easy it is to program it without any software installed and it's been phenomenal to customize it to fit me perfectly.
I just changed all the switches out (in order to be quieter than my stock Cherry MX Brown switches) and replaced them with a set of Gazzew U4 switches. I'm _shocked_ at how far mechanical switches have come along since the days of Cherry dominance. They're super quiet and still have an awesome tactile feel!
These days I have a ZSA Moonlander. I adore it! I love how easy it is to program it without any software installed and it's been phenomenal to customize it to fit me perfectly.
I just changed all the switches out (in order to be quieter than my stock Cherry MX Brown switches) and replaced them with a set of Gazzew U4 switches. I'm _shocked_ at how far mechanical switches have come along since the days of Cherry dominance. They're super quiet and still have an awesome tactile feel!
That was my impression too. I used to think I'd use nothing but MX Blues forever. The 'copycat' switches haven't just caught up, they've been innovating and Cherry seems to have given up.
Does anyone here use a numpad? What for? I made my own macropad[1] but I struggle to find a use, the only thing I use it for is CAD shortcut keys. Any ideas are welcome!
[1] https://immich.home.stavros.io/share/GE_noaUx1_cayK9WDVvzutr...
[1] https://immich.home.stavros.io/share/GE_noaUx1_cayK9WDVvzutr...
I don't use a numpad, but a friend of mine swears by them for playing roguelikes. It makes it much easier to move diagonally in a single turn.
If you play any games with keyboard and mouse, you could bind some letters/numbers from the right half of the keyboard and then place the macropad on the left so you don't have to take your hand off the mouse to hit anything.
For another idea, you could bind pgup/pgdn or scroll wheel up and down for scrolling webpages, IRC backlog, etc.
If you play any games with keyboard and mouse, you could bind some letters/numbers from the right half of the keyboard and then place the macropad on the left so you don't have to take your hand off the mouse to hit anything.
For another idea, you could bind pgup/pgdn or scroll wheel up and down for scrolling webpages, IRC backlog, etc.
Hmm that's a very good use case, thanks! I'll keep it in mind for next time, I think it wouldn't have occurred to me if you hadn't said it.
Same with MUDs: a numpad is a critical piece of kit for getting around those rooms with north/northeast/east style exits.
True, but also thank god for speedwalking.
Roguelikes are a great use case. I used to play Castle of the Winds all the time with a number pad, Shift+7913 fast movement FTW.
> Does anyone here use a numpad?
Yes.
> What for?
Inputting numbers.
The number row is too wide and too offset on a staggered keyboard to really work for me. I'd be interested in trying a full-width ortholinear keyboard, but can't find any.
Yes.
> What for?
Inputting numbers.
The number row is too wide and too offset on a staggered keyboard to really work for me. I'd be interested in trying a full-width ortholinear keyboard, but can't find any.
Oh durr, I forgot about that. I have remapped tilde so when it's held down it turns the right half of my keyboard into a numpad, so I use that for numbers. I guess I was more asking if anyone uses macropads.
I've personally replaced keymacros by things like Alfred's workflows (or Raycast's): aka a universal command palette.
It's usually very fast to type "cmd-space", and then type 3-4 letters to find the macro I want.
It's usually very fast to type "cmd-space", and then type 3-4 letters to find the macro I want.
Yeah, I use a similar utility, plus I've built a custom QMK-based keyboard that has extra shortcut layers. I think macropads might still be useful for per-app shortcut layers, but in practice I don't find myself using it that much.
I have a number of AutoHotKey/Hammerspoon numpad shortcuts for arranging windows.
In Visual Studio, on the suggestion of a colleague at my first job, I use Numpad + for copy, Numpad - for cut, and Numpad * for paste. (I've never managed to train my hand eye coordination to use these in any other program. Which is a bit of a shame, because they're actually pretty useful. Whichever side you mouse on, you can find some way of hitting them without much effort.)
The numpad also comes in handy sometimes for typing numbers.
In Visual Studio, on the suggestion of a colleague at my first job, I use Numpad + for copy, Numpad - for cut, and Numpad * for paste. (I've never managed to train my hand eye coordination to use these in any other program. Which is a bit of a shame, because they're actually pretty useful. Whichever side you mouse on, you can find some way of hitting them without much effort.)
The numpad also comes in handy sometimes for typing numbers.
As a 90s phone user where you text on one it feel like a fast way to type a credit card number or similar. Pretty rare use case with modern keychains and password managers though.
Man, T9 was the best though.
I do when I'm using a keyboard that has one, for numeric input, but I don't do this often enough to prefer it to the smaller form factor of a tenkeyless keyboard.
My usual layout, left to right, is Magic Trackpad, tenkeyless keyboard, mouse on mousepad cut down to roughly the size of a Magic Trackpad (with a larger mousepad on hand for gaming and other precision applications).
My usual layout, left to right, is Magic Trackpad, tenkeyless keyboard, mouse on mousepad cut down to roughly the size of a Magic Trackpad (with a larger mousepad on hand for gaming and other precision applications).
I have a similar sized macropad that I use extensively with AutoHotKey for application-specific shortcuts like clicking on buttons that don't have a keyboard shortcut, or scrolling two panes of a window simultaneously. All things that I could bind a key combo to, but I like having a dedicated button for.
Quite a bit - I have a bunch of custom shortcuts for musical notation (adding dynamics, expression, etc.) for rapidly entering music into my notation software.
Yep, trying to type a long number on the top row is super tedious to me. I just use a layer under my right hand for 10-key.
[deleted]
I'll be very curious to see if my research on typing practice [1] will still be relevant in the era of LLMs...
[1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3373165.3373177
[1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3373165.3373177
What, an article on typing and keyboards, and no mention of Dvorak or Colemak? Let's have that eternal discussion again!
Swap Caps and Ctrl, use Emacs or vi keybindings, and save your wrist from moving to the arrow keys!
Swap Caps and Ctrl, use Emacs or vi keybindings, and save your wrist from moving to the arrow keys!
>no mention of Dvorak or Colemak? Let's have that eternal discussion again!
I prefer Workman. Used to use Dvorak. Did not see much point to Colemak or its Mod DH variant by the time I was open to switching again, Workman set out to solve those issues in its original design. To anyone coming from Qwerty these days (Workman only came out in 2010), I would just recommend skipping over Dvorak and Colemak. You can find even more esoteric layouts, but Workman is in a bit of a goldilocks zone where it's available in some OSes/keyboards by default and isn't impossible to find keycaps for (often the "colevrak" kits cover it).
>Swap Caps and Ctrl
I never liked binding caps to Ctrl or Esc, but I do bind it to Compose in my OS these days. What I'd instead recommend is getting an ergonomic keyboard with a thumb cluster, like the Pinky4 or Iris, and putting your modifiers there. My Ctrl, Alt, and Super keys are all thumb keys now and even the leftmost of them is offset a similar amount to where Alt is on a traditional keyboard, so all very comfortable to press. I also have backspace, space, and enter on thumb keys.
>use Emacs or vi keybindings,
Strongly agreed, this is huge. Vi especially as you can avoid most chords, a bit like Sticky Keys in Windows, except not awful and not something you activated by accident. I spent considerable time with Spacemacs as well as evil-mode in my own config at one point. Back to (neo)vim now, but all great choices, all better than using nano or a CUA binds editor.
I prefer Workman. Used to use Dvorak. Did not see much point to Colemak or its Mod DH variant by the time I was open to switching again, Workman set out to solve those issues in its original design. To anyone coming from Qwerty these days (Workman only came out in 2010), I would just recommend skipping over Dvorak and Colemak. You can find even more esoteric layouts, but Workman is in a bit of a goldilocks zone where it's available in some OSes/keyboards by default and isn't impossible to find keycaps for (often the "colevrak" kits cover it).
>Swap Caps and Ctrl
I never liked binding caps to Ctrl or Esc, but I do bind it to Compose in my OS these days. What I'd instead recommend is getting an ergonomic keyboard with a thumb cluster, like the Pinky4 or Iris, and putting your modifiers there. My Ctrl, Alt, and Super keys are all thumb keys now and even the leftmost of them is offset a similar amount to where Alt is on a traditional keyboard, so all very comfortable to press. I also have backspace, space, and enter on thumb keys.
>use Emacs or vi keybindings,
Strongly agreed, this is huge. Vi especially as you can avoid most chords, a bit like Sticky Keys in Windows, except not awful and not something you activated by accident. I spent considerable time with Spacemacs as well as evil-mode in my own config at one point. Back to (neo)vim now, but all great choices, all better than using nano or a CUA binds editor.
Colemak objectively better than workman for same finger bigrams. Also installed by default on more computers.
I don't bother with a dedicated capslock key. I set it up so hitting left and right shift at the same time is caps lock. Also have an arrow layer under my right hand with home/end and pgup/pgdown within easy reach. Could never get used to vi cursor navigation.
I use Colemak DH for many years and Dvorak before that and I am of an opinion that alternative layouts are way overrated. I even somewhat regret inventing so much time in learning them. QWERTY is just fine!
The matter I want to preach about tho are split ortolinear keyboards. I believe absolutely every typist should use them. Conventional keyboards are just bad from ergonomics perspective and eventually it’d have a toll on your wrists health. And many of these keyboards stores key mappings directly on the chip so no need to mess with weird mapping software.
Having said that, my split keyboard is one of the best investments I did in my life.
The matter I want to preach about tho are split ortolinear keyboards. I believe absolutely every typist should use them. Conventional keyboards are just bad from ergonomics perspective and eventually it’d have a toll on your wrists health. And many of these keyboards stores key mappings directly on the chip so no need to mess with weird mapping software.
Having said that, my split keyboard is one of the best investments I did in my life.
I have opposite opinion, that using an alternative layout on a standard keyboard is a greater improvement that a split keyboard. Coming from someone who uses colemak on a split column staggered aka as ergo as it gets. When I have to use my laptop keyboard its not so much worse.
Thank you for creating the containment thread.
If you swap caps for left control, do you swap return for right control? I've been taught not to type modifier + key with one hand.
Dvorak + Emacs user here, by the way. In my opinion mouse use is okay, but I think a drawing tablet is better than a mouse.
Dvorak + Emacs user here, by the way. In my opinion mouse use is okay, but I think a drawing tablet is better than a mouse.
Do you even use two hands for shortcuts like copy and paste?
I use ctrl-c and ctrl-v for those. Right hand presses right control with palm of hand (just below pinky). Left hand types the letter like normal.
I just kind of roll my hand to the ctrl key, I don't use a finger to press it.
Same thing with right-ctrl.
I just kind of roll my hand to the ctrl key, I don't use a finger to press it.
Same thing with right-ctrl.
Yes. And even considering the locations of C, X, and V on the QWERTY layout, I wouldn't type Control with any of those with one hand.
I could never see the need to rebind Ctrl to Caps Lock (and I do use Emacs). Whenever it's time to press Ctrl, I curl my pinky and press that key with my pinky's distal joint. I did, however, swap Fn and the Global key on my Mac.
I think that's reason enough to rebind Ctrl to Caps Lock. I used to do the same, but why go to the trouble when I can remap Caps Lock once and be done with it?
Good thread to promote: MK Meetup in Berlin at c-Base tomorrow evening (Monday).
https://luma.com/hgwfl3pm
https://luma.com/hgwfl3pm
If you're aware how much knowing to touch type improves your experience of using a desktop, you should also learn to glide type on your phone.
I used to love swiping to type on mobile. Then I switched to iPhone. The issue there is if you have swipe enabled, it messes with the hit box of keys and you end up typing a lot of garbage if you type to fast when not swiping.
The Goldtouch split keyboards worked wonders for me.
It does mean that I can't use "ergonomic" or split hand keyboards easily, though.
I have a couple different inexpensive Aula and similar mechanical keyboards I prefer to use.