Webflow (YC S13) Lets You Design Responsive Websites Visually, Publish Instantly(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Webflow (YC S13) Lets You Design Responsive Websites Visually, Publish Instantly
http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/05/webflow-lets-you-design-responsive-websites-visually-publish-instantly-when-youre-done/
55 comments
Congrats to Vlad and team! I haven't been this excited about a startup in a long time. Webflow has re-invented responsive web design.
Totally agree with ebahnx. I've got rudimentary HTML/CSS knowledge that I picked up in high school, but it was enough to know my way around Webflow. Built a responsive site (which I don't have anywhere close to the skills to do myself) in about 4 hours.
Awesome product! Keep up the good work.
Nice work Vlad! I am super excited that you've shipped!
I'm a designer and developer - love the idea of both WebFlow and Macaw are up to.
I can see how this can be a huge time saver for me on the front-end - even if just another level of high-fidelity mockups (vs. production).
I find it really hard to justify dropping the money and then my time if I'm working through a web-based cloud service though (vs. a desktop app - even like the ones that call home like Creative Cloud).
We've seen a lot of web-based essential services go out of business. If I've mocked up 100 sites in WebFlow, the company goes out of business, and suddenly I don't have those resource files - it would be an even larger loss to me than any amount of money I had paid to purchase the software.
I can see how this can be a huge time saver for me on the front-end - even if just another level of high-fidelity mockups (vs. production).
I find it really hard to justify dropping the money and then my time if I'm working through a web-based cloud service though (vs. a desktop app - even like the ones that call home like Creative Cloud).
We've seen a lot of web-based essential services go out of business. If I've mocked up 100 sites in WebFlow, the company goes out of business, and suddenly I don't have those resource files - it would be an even larger loss to me than any amount of money I had paid to purchase the software.
Completely understand your concern. However, a couple of points to clarify:
- Webflow is meant for production site implementation, so your actual "source" files would be on your computer (in Photoshop, etc). You'd still need to use PS to slice images, optimize them, etc - we're not trying to replace Photoshop wholesale, just improve the workflow around the actual creation of the live site (something for which Photoshop was never intended).
- All your work completed in Webflow (to implement the initial design, and make it responsive), can be easily exported to a full HTML/CSS/JS bundle that can be run hosted anywhere you wish. A good practice could be to download completed sites and archive them in source control as a contingency.
- Webflow is meant for production site implementation, so your actual "source" files would be on your computer (in Photoshop, etc). You'd still need to use PS to slice images, optimize them, etc - we're not trying to replace Photoshop wholesale, just improve the workflow around the actual creation of the live site (something for which Photoshop was never intended).
- All your work completed in Webflow (to implement the initial design, and make it responsive), can be easily exported to a full HTML/CSS/JS bundle that can be run hosted anywhere you wish. A good practice could be to download completed sites and archive them in source control as a contingency.
I don't think your post addressed Dystopian's question: as I understand, your organization keeps not only your compiler proprietary but even the source code (preferred data structures for making changes) for your clients' websites (their flows, templates, etc.).
While use of the compiled output of your service may be a fallback, it's certainly not a good contingency. In particular, wouldn't consider the complied output "source code" any more than I'd consider assembler language output "source code".
While use of the compiled output of your service may be a fallback, it's certainly not a good contingency. In particular, wouldn't consider the complied output "source code" any more than I'd consider assembler language output "source code".
I totally agree, personally, I would still use a product like this but store exports of each site design in git.
worse case scenario you have to go back to hand coding.
worse case scenario you have to go back to hand coding.
This is a massive, massive concern for us. We're an agency. We can't trust software like this for something as fundamental as our creative mockups.
We totally understand you concerns, however, the output of your creative work on Webflow is still the standards of the internet: HTML+CSS. As such, you aren't committing to a a resource file by using Webflow, as you would be if you were to use Flash/ColdFusion, whose outputs are proprietary.
> There aren’t many competitors for a service like this
Very false. This space has started to see a lot of action (Over 10 high quality products come to mind, one of them another YC company) and will only continue to. It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out (disclaimer: my company has products somewhat in this space).
Congrats to Webflow though, it's a great product.
Very false. This space has started to see a lot of action (Over 10 high quality products come to mind, one of them another YC company) and will only continue to. It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out (disclaimer: my company has products somewhat in this space).
Congrats to Webflow though, it's a great product.
Hey Max, you're totally right. Responsive Web Design is exploding, and it's great to see so much action in this space.
Can you name these companies?
I would like to add them to the StartHQ SaaS directory, if they're not there already: https://starthq.com/apps/?category=creative
I would like to add them to the StartHQ SaaS directory, if they're not there already: https://starthq.com/apps/?category=creative
I loved what you were showing a while ago a lot, but I have my issues with the current iteration:
I envisioned it as a way to integrate it into my current workflow, instead of it being a completely seperate and independent webpublishing platform. As it currently stands, it feels like a slightly more design-ish squarespace with the kicker of responsive design. Nothing impossible to do with squarespace.
All you can do (at the moment) really is to set up some nice looking static sites, but the moment you want anything more interactive or custom features, you are out in the dark. Like I can't even enter the store on the second example on the landing page.
Just my two cents.
I envisioned it as a way to integrate it into my current workflow, instead of it being a completely seperate and independent webpublishing platform. As it currently stands, it feels like a slightly more design-ish squarespace with the kicker of responsive design. Nothing impossible to do with squarespace.
All you can do (at the moment) really is to set up some nice looking static sites, but the moment you want anything more interactive or custom features, you are out in the dark. Like I can't even enter the store on the second example on the landing page.
Just my two cents.
This isn't your father's PageMill.
It always seemed that this should be the logical way to go, but for some reason I've never really seen these things stick around (at least in my personal experience). Is it a matter of chasing trends/technology?
Looks slick. I owe it to myself to give it a whirl and keep an eye on its adoption.
It always seemed that this should be the logical way to go, but for some reason I've never really seen these things stick around (at least in my personal experience). Is it a matter of chasing trends/technology?
Looks slick. I owe it to myself to give it a whirl and keep an eye on its adoption.
I was considering using Jetstrap for a new project that I'm going to do after I finish up the Startup Engineering course by Coursera. I'm interested in using this instead afterwards.
I still don't know how to implement backend code with a front end website, but I'm sure this wouldn't be a problem considering the code is exportable.
Great work, I played with the demo for a while and I really like it.
I still don't know how to implement backend code with a front end website, but I'm sure this wouldn't be a problem considering the code is exportable.
Great work, I played with the demo for a while and I really like it.
I love the design and the concept of the site as well as others in this space like jetstrap, easel, and divshot. To be honest, I've tried a few of these offerings and as a web developer this is not what I want, I'm looking for two things:
1. An editor like the one Bret Victor talked about in his "Inventing on Principle" talk[1]. I want to edit HTML and CSS and see updates reflected in real time[2].
2. A way to hook this into a DVCS (Or better yet, a desktop application/desktop plugin). My development workflow relies heavily on Git and I don't think I'm going to download a zip payload and extract it every time I need to do a commit.
[1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PUv...
[2] - http://livecoding.io/
1. An editor like the one Bret Victor talked about in his "Inventing on Principle" talk[1]. I want to edit HTML and CSS and see updates reflected in real time[2].
2. A way to hook this into a DVCS (Or better yet, a desktop application/desktop plugin). My development workflow relies heavily on Git and I don't think I'm going to download a zip payload and extract it every time I need to do a commit.
[1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PUv...
[2] - http://livecoding.io/
1. Any static site generator with livereload. Try Docpad or Middleman.
Wow! Thanks for the livereload link, I'm definitely going to implement this. I know people have been complaining about HN lately but it's contributors like you who continue to enlighten me with new tools that I love about this community.
At first I was like, this is cool... but there's not a whole lot of new value here that makes changing how I work worth it. Then it allowed me to switch between mobile platforms, and desktop, and I was like "oh, hey i would use that"
So nice work. The core still needs some work but there's a lot of potential.
So nice work. The core still needs some work but there's a lot of potential.
I'd use this for prototyping mostly. What would really rock (no single tool exists that does this afaik) is to be able to do color-experiments and see changes reflected immediately.
What I mean with this is that normally (as we all know) we design from a pretty strict color palette. Text, backgrounds, spotcolor, linkcolor, even gradient begin end endpoints. You get the point. In a tool like Webflow, all the links between the color-palette and the code that uses a particular color from that palette are known. In other words: the position of a color in the palette determines the way in which this color is applied in the design, this stays the same between different palettes.
IMO it would be great if you could input different color-palettes (by your own design, cycling through kuler variations, etc.) and have the design automatically reflect that.
Just a suggestion :)
What I mean with this is that normally (as we all know) we design from a pretty strict color palette. Text, backgrounds, spotcolor, linkcolor, even gradient begin end endpoints. You get the point. In a tool like Webflow, all the links between the color-palette and the code that uses a particular color from that palette are known. In other words: the position of a color in the palette determines the way in which this color is applied in the design, this stays the same between different palettes.
IMO it would be great if you could input different color-palettes (by your own design, cycling through kuler variations, etc.) and have the design automatically reflect that.
Just a suggestion :)
I see the potential of these kind of applications, it's a killer product for their target audience. But I can't see how this would fit in my WordPress workflow to be honest.
I tried the demo and the interface looks great but I feel restricted. My process usually begins in Inkscape. I build all the layouts in vector and once I have a good idea of how they should look like I grab my WordPress boilerplate folder and build the theme from scratch; no static first, just dynamic as I go. They're not complete themes though, just what's needed for the given project.
So yeah, great product, looks good, but I won't use it. I had the same thoughts about Adobe Reflow. Tried it, liked it, maybe for a static portfolio site but other than won't be useful.
I tried the demo and the interface looks great but I feel restricted. My process usually begins in Inkscape. I build all the layouts in vector and once I have a good idea of how they should look like I grab my WordPress boilerplate folder and build the theme from scratch; no static first, just dynamic as I go. They're not complete themes though, just what's needed for the given project.
So yeah, great product, looks good, but I won't use it. I had the same thoughts about Adobe Reflow. Tried it, liked it, maybe for a static portfolio site but other than won't be useful.
What I really want to see out of one of these apps is a way to support partials within other pages. It would be awesome to design my whole SPA within a tool like this and then export it in a uniformed way which I could then tie into angular, ember, a cms or whatever workflow I am using.
Personally I don't want the design tool to make those assumptions around what my infrastructure might be, although clearly this particular tool is aimed at non-tech users.
Personally I don't want the design tool to make those assumptions around what my infrastructure might be, although clearly this particular tool is aimed at non-tech users.
The pricing for extra domains seems weird to me - it's more for the extra ones ($19) than for the original 3 (49/3 ~= $16).
I hear their home page was built using their own product. So that says something right there. Looking forward to trying it.
> ©2013 Webflow, Inc. This page was built in Webflow (duh).
Yep.
Yep.
Sure was! Click on the "Play with Demo" button at the top of the page and you'll be able to edit the Webflow homepage in Webflow.
I know :) I've been part of their beta programme. I love this product. It's exactly what I need to design a quick website without needing to: a) learn html and css; and b) deal with another human being.
Well designed and very powerful product for my use case. Had to throw a responsive landing page quickly and Webflow made the job so much easier. I kept iterating on my page design using your tool (I was going off a really rough mock) and kept losing my iterations :) but in the end it worked out quite well.
How does this compare to Macaw: http://macaw.co/
We love Macaw, and the early preview looks amazing! Can't wait to play with the final version. That said, it looks like it is much more similar to Adobe Edge Reflow, but with a more intuitive interface.
With Webflow, we're looking to build a more comprehensive hosted platform that allows designers to create production websites and actually deploy them live. Down the line, this means that content management, functional web forms, eCommerce integration, and a variety of other things are possible out of the box, without the need to export code and change it manually. Even simple things for programmers like script compression/concatenation and CDN acceleration (all of which happen after the design phase) are hard for many designers to set up, so we want to take as many headaches away as possible so designers can get back to work.
With Webflow, we're looking to build a more comprehensive hosted platform that allows designers to create production websites and actually deploy them live. Down the line, this means that content management, functional web forms, eCommerce integration, and a variety of other things are possible out of the box, without the need to export code and change it manually. Even simple things for programmers like script compression/concatenation and CDN acceleration (all of which happen after the design phase) are hard for many designers to set up, so we want to take as many headaches away as possible so designers can get back to work.
Your product is really awesome, but it sounds like you are going down a bad path. Playing around with it, I love how it is a good replacement for photoshop, built with the web in mind (classes are crucial so that I don't have to go and change every element every time I make a small change). Haven't used it on a real project yet, but I am planning to. At that point I will probably export out the design and then finish it in code.
Your plans to compete with every CMS out there, plus Shopify sound like a world of pain. I would love to see you guys stick to your core product and make it awesome without taking on that gargantuan task.
Luckily for me, there is a bunch of competition in the space if you guys slip up.
Your plans to compete with every CMS out there, plus Shopify sound like a world of pain. I would love to see you guys stick to your core product and make it awesome without taking on that gargantuan task.
Luckily for me, there is a bunch of competition in the space if you guys slip up.
Great point. "Down the line" is quite relative, by the way. Right now, we are very fanatical about improving our designer interface, and we'll see where things go from there.
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At first, I thought it was the same app.
They are suspiciously similar.
They are suspiciously similar.
This looks good, though am curious as to how this compares to Adobe Edge Reflow? http://html.adobe.com/edge/reflow/
Congrats on the launch guys- looks like a solid product! Can you discuss the tech stack you used for those of is that are curious?
Certainly: a node + mongo stack, and the designer was built using knockout.js
Congratulations to Vlad and the team. They are very friendly and dedicated, and I look forward to their success
Firefox (19.0.2) shows this error on the demo page
"This browser does not have native cryptography support :("
"This browser does not have native cryptography support :("
hmm.. I get
"Your browser is too small. Please resize your window to fit this media query."
in the demo Chrome 29/Opera 12.14
Just zoom out in your browser - Ctrl minus on Windows or Command minus on Mac...
On the free plan you can only have 3 projects/websites. Is that at a time or in total ever?
Vlad, Webflow says my browser screen is too small. I am using Firefox 22.0.
Chrome recommended. Widen your browser window and the message should go away.
Isn't the whole point of "responsive web design" to provide a good experience across a wide range of browsers and devices, without the user having to do anything special?
Having to switch browsers (from a very modern version of a very capable and very widely used browser, no less!) and having to manually resize the browser window merely to view the site is not what I'd consider a good experience in any way.
The "native cryptography support" error that some of us are getting with quite modern browsers isn't very encouraging, either.
These techniques are forcing the user to be responsive to the website's deficiencies, rather than the website being properly responsive to the capabilities of the user's browser and device. This is "responsiveness" in all the wrong ways.
Having to switch browsers (from a very modern version of a very capable and very widely used browser, no less!) and having to manually resize the browser window merely to view the site is not what I'd consider a good experience in any way.
The "native cryptography support" error that some of us are getting with quite modern browsers isn't very encouraging, either.
These techniques are forcing the user to be responsive to the website's deficiencies, rather than the website being properly responsive to the capabilities of the user's browser and device. This is "responsiveness" in all the wrong ways.
Well, the output is responsive indeed.
The build tool needs more screen space than iPhone/Android can offer (left and right columns + content editing in the middle), hence it make a perfect sense to "force" you to use a larger viewport.
The build tool needs more screen space than iPhone/Android can offer (left and right columns + content editing in the middle), hence it make a perfect sense to "force" you to use a larger viewport.
Drag and drop builders have been here since day 1. Good luck to the team, they will need it. Personally I think there's more value in strong forms like tumblr, wordpress, twitter. No one really likes options.
This could be great for teaching how CSS works.
Congrats.. That is one nice looking webapp.
Can this be easily exported to Wordpress?
138 days ago, we posted a Show HN [1], and the feedback was so massively encouraging that we doubled down on building the best possible responsive design platform imaginable. Thank you HN for playing such a big part in the first chapter of our young company.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5407499