Being a Non-Hacker in a Hacker's World(scribblesheet.co.uk)
scribblesheet.co.uk
Being a Non-Hacker in a Hacker's World
http://www.scribblesheet.co.uk/viewarticle.php?aid=216
29 comments
OK, so I read Hackers and Painters while in LA. I'd arrived after 3 years of studying computer graphics, 2D, 3D, image compositing, 3D animation. I wanted to be a VFX artist. I was starting to put together a decent portfolio of some stuff I'd done.
Then I made some friends who worked in the VFX industry, and I realized how much the life of an FX artist sucked. So, shortly after I got my first offer to work for an FX firm, I decided to leave town.
One of my friends, (he teaches FX at Sony Imageworks now) told me: The guys at Imageworks who have the most creative freedom are the programmers. The artists have to reproduce what someone else tells them to reproduce for 16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. The programers write code whatever way they want to as long as the code gets the job done.
So, I picked up a copy of Hackers and Painters, left LA and enrolled in a CS program. That was 3 years ago. I've been plugging away at school ever since.
I've since moved to the Bay area, I'm finishing my degree in two more semesters, and I'll finally have a go at my startup.
I agonized and complained for months after I read Hackers and Painters because I couldn't hack and I didn't think I'd ever be able to. I was intimidated. But, then I figured if I didn't take the leap and dive in, I'd still be whining about it months or years from now.
So, if you're upset that you don't fit in in hacker culture, and that your not a hacker... Maybe you're trying to tell yourself something. Maybe what you really want to do is learn how to hack. It's what I wanted all along. I just didn't know it.
Then I made some friends who worked in the VFX industry, and I realized how much the life of an FX artist sucked. So, shortly after I got my first offer to work for an FX firm, I decided to leave town.
One of my friends, (he teaches FX at Sony Imageworks now) told me: The guys at Imageworks who have the most creative freedom are the programmers. The artists have to reproduce what someone else tells them to reproduce for 16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. The programers write code whatever way they want to as long as the code gets the job done.
So, I picked up a copy of Hackers and Painters, left LA and enrolled in a CS program. That was 3 years ago. I've been plugging away at school ever since.
I've since moved to the Bay area, I'm finishing my degree in two more semesters, and I'll finally have a go at my startup.
I agonized and complained for months after I read Hackers and Painters because I couldn't hack and I didn't think I'd ever be able to. I was intimidated. But, then I figured if I didn't take the leap and dive in, I'd still be whining about it months or years from now.
So, if you're upset that you don't fit in in hacker culture, and that your not a hacker... Maybe you're trying to tell yourself something. Maybe what you really want to do is learn how to hack. It's what I wanted all along. I just didn't know it.
Thanks for the inspirational post. Keep it up, and keep sharing your experiences with others (on- and offline)!
Coming from an art background though, you probably have a significant advantage when it comes to creative expression.
Coming from an art background though, you probably have a significant advantage when it comes to creative expression.
I need to learn how to hack and I will
Same here. I've been working on it a couple of years, and I'm sure I'll be working on it for years to come.
I can tell that you have the drive, curiosity and the desire, though. I think that's the biggest part of it. Everything else is just learning and not putting your foot through the monitor the umpteenth time your code doesn't work. :)
I can tell that you have the drive, curiosity and the desire, though. I think that's the biggest part of it. Everything else is just learning and not putting your foot through the monitor the umpteenth time your code doesn't work. :)
What does that even mean? It's called programming! Making software! Stuff!
"Hack" is a verb that badly needs a direct object behind it, usually with the word "together" in between, and even then it's still cringe-inducing, because usually its usage takes some form of "look at what words I use." The word "hack" is practically a form of profanity.
"Hack" is a verb that badly needs a direct object behind it, usually with the word "together" in between, and even then it's still cringe-inducing, because usually its usage takes some form of "look at what words I use." The word "hack" is practically a form of profanity.
Wrong. Maybe to you... but for many many years it has meant something completely different. Scroll down and find yourself enlightened....
Oh how I wish I could share the joys of hacking with non-hackers, but that would be like describing the color blue to a blind man. You just gotta experience it yourself. There's nothing like putting something together and seeing it work the first time. Even if it isn't perfect, that first output is better than sex. Still makes make holler and jump out of my chair! (The output, not the sex.)
I would strongly suggest trying out any of the many "Build an App is x Days or Hours". Grab a book or something on-line. They're everywhere. There was even a pretty good "Build You Own Ruby on Rails Web App" on the forum a few days ago (probably 2nd or 3rd page by now). Follow the instructions and do what they say. Build you app.
One of two things will happen: you'll either feel like I do and you'll be hooked. Or not. Either way is OK, but to not give it a shot in 2007 would be a shame.
(By the way, you'll probably find out that's how the best of us got started. School is cool, but nothing replaces just doing it.)
I would strongly suggest trying out any of the many "Build an App is x Days or Hours". Grab a book or something on-line. They're everywhere. There was even a pretty good "Build You Own Ruby on Rails Web App" on the forum a few days ago (probably 2nd or 3rd page by now). Follow the instructions and do what they say. Build you app.
One of two things will happen: you'll either feel like I do and you'll be hooked. Or not. Either way is OK, but to not give it a shot in 2007 would be a shame.
(By the way, you'll probably find out that's how the best of us got started. School is cool, but nothing replaces just doing it.)
Thanks for the tips
If you are learning Python, new to programming, and want to be a web-entrepreneur, I strongly suggest you check into Django once you learn Python reasonably well.
Best of luck
Best of luck
I am so tired of hearing this word "hacker". Use, programmer, software engineer, coder whatever.
There are appropreate times to use the word "hack", when i am doing something really quick and dirty, just b/c it needs to get out asap, but probably I am not really proud of my solution, as it probably less maintanable on the long run.
When you heare phrases like: I did something "hackish", or my bug fix is kinda of a "hack", usually are not something programmers are proud of. Usually that means I did a quick and dirty solution to that problem, and not an elegant one.
In an early startup, i guess, being quick is the most important thing, but after a while you have to start caring about the long term of the code you are writting or end up like friendster, where their poor performance killed the company.
A good programmer will use a "hack" only as a last resort.
There are appropreate times to use the word "hack", when i am doing something really quick and dirty, just b/c it needs to get out asap, but probably I am not really proud of my solution, as it probably less maintanable on the long run.
When you heare phrases like: I did something "hackish", or my bug fix is kinda of a "hack", usually are not something programmers are proud of. Usually that means I did a quick and dirty solution to that problem, and not an elegant one.
In an early startup, i guess, being quick is the most important thing, but after a while you have to start caring about the long term of the code you are writting or end up like friendster, where their poor performance killed the company.
A good programmer will use a "hack" only as a last resort.
ardit, no offense, but your lack of knowledge about the etymology of the word is apparent. I hate to jump onto this flame-bait, but here's the real definition of a "hacker" from the illustrious jargon file:
1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular.
2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.
argh please wrap your lines!
flame bait, this is just arguing semantics. it doesn't really matter one way or the other.
> I am so tired of hearing this word "hacker". Use, programmer, software engineer, coder whatever.
Exactly. Using words out of the jargon file is crass. You don't "learn to hack". It's just wrong and painful, seeing that phrase.
Exactly. Using words out of the jargon file is crass. You don't "learn to hack". It's just wrong and painful, seeing that phrase.
Great article. I cant write code if god could help me, but i understand it to a decent level. But i hope to take on the business end of things in my company because i have more experience there. Knowing how the program works is a great value for a business guy like me, because i can communicate with the hackers on my team, and speak in their dialect. Its also kinda necessary to understand how your product works.
Just curious, why choose Python to learn first? Is that what most here would recommend?
Python gives you the nice features of modern, dynamic languages (you might not know what this means, but trust me: they're nice), while still forcing you to think and write clean code. Plus, it's not academic -- Python is a full-fledged, big-boy language, and people use it regularly for real work.
There are other languages that you could learn first, but Python offers a really friendly cross-section of features and flexibility that makes it an attractive beginner's language. It's definitely the language I would teach to first-time programmers, given no other constraints.
There are other languages that you could learn first, but Python offers a really friendly cross-section of features and flexibility that makes it an attractive beginner's language. It's definitely the language I would teach to first-time programmers, given no other constraints.
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How many non hackers are here on YC News?
I'm an aspiring hacker, but definitely not there yet. I've made some cool stuff in FORTRAN and Matlab (numerical analysis major) and I've pulled off some somewhat clever stuff in SAS, but it's hard to really feel like part of the community without knowing some kind of "industrial strength" language like python, C, C++, Java, Scheme, Perl, Ruby, etc. really anything that you could build a web-app in, even if it's blub.
I'm one. Coincidentally, I'll also be starting to learn how to program tomorrow. I'll be learning C from K&R. I wish you the best of luck with Python.
I found this http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/cclass/cclass.html a useful, lighter, accompaniment to K&R when first learning C. Good luck. C is a great language for, er, implementing higher-level languages in ;-.
Oh, dear god...don't learn how to program from K&R!
Aside from K&R being a bad first-time instructional book, C is just a bad choice of a first-time language. Most CS departments start freshmen with Java, these days (hell...back in my day, most new programmers started with Basic or Pascal, before moving into the ugly world of C.)
If at all possible, learn a scripting language first. Learn Python. Learn Perl. Learn Javascript. All are more productive and fun for first-timers than C. Compared to C, they're all ultra-expressive and ultra-friendly, and you will have an easier time understanding the why of programming, since you won't be as distracted with the details of the how.
Aside from K&R being a bad first-time instructional book, C is just a bad choice of a first-time language. Most CS departments start freshmen with Java, these days (hell...back in my day, most new programmers started with Basic or Pascal, before moving into the ugly world of C.)
If at all possible, learn a scripting language first. Learn Python. Learn Perl. Learn Javascript. All are more productive and fun for first-timers than C. Compared to C, they're all ultra-expressive and ultra-friendly, and you will have an easier time understanding the why of programming, since you won't be as distracted with the details of the how.
K&R is a great book to learn C from. It is short, the authors are programming greats, and as a bonus you get to learn a little about how the Unix programming model works.
And just to be devil's advocate, C is a fine first language to learn - it is small and encourages you to understand what the machine is doing. C++ on the other hand is not a fun place for beginners to hang out.
Just because most CS depts start freshmen with Java doesn't mean that Java is a great first choice.
I think learning C and Python/Ruby would make for a pretty nice combination.
And just to be devil's advocate, C is a fine first language to learn - it is small and encourages you to understand what the machine is doing. C++ on the other hand is not a fun place for beginners to hang out.
Just because most CS depts start freshmen with Java doesn't mean that Java is a great first choice.
I think learning C and Python/Ruby would make for a pretty nice combination.
C maybe isn't the easiest choice of a first language, but I disagree that it's a bad one. No single language will make you a good programmer, because a good programmer needs to be capable of thinking in high-level abstractions and also needs to understand what goes on close to the metal. No language that I know of is good for both of those (Forth comes closest), and C is excellent for the latter.
Thanks for the advice (and thanks to the others who responded to my post). I think I'll still give K&R a shot, possibly with the notes a13x recommended (I haven't had the time to check them out yet), because I don't want to buy another book right now. If I find that I'm not getting excited about programming or not learning well from K&R, I'll switch to Python.
A warning or two on C and K&R:
If you hit a brick wall when you get to the chapter on pointers and arrays, don't panic. That's perhaps the first relatively hard thing to learn in C, it may take you a little while to grok it.
And I get the impression that K&R doesn't teach it well; I myself read the Lions notes to "get it" (_Lions' Commentary on Unix_, ISBN 1573980137, a critical 1977 book with the UNIX Version 6 source code and excellent commentary). Now of course there are many more good expositions on this and the other harder parts of C.
If you hit a brick wall when you get to the chapter on pointers and arrays, don't panic. That's perhaps the first relatively hard thing to learn in C, it may take you a little while to grok it.
And I get the impression that K&R doesn't teach it well; I myself read the Lions notes to "get it" (_Lions' Commentary on Unix_, ISBN 1573980137, a critical 1977 book with the UNIX Version 6 source code and excellent commentary). Now of course there are many more good expositions on this and the other harder parts of C.
How many people on YC news cannot hack?