How To Fly Without ID(lookingglassnews.org)
lookingglassnews.org
How To Fly Without ID
http://www.lookingglassnews.org/printerfriendly.php?storyid=7040
61 comments
The downside of this was not pointed out unless one read the whole snippet:
EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED SCREENER
Yeah, you got on the plane without showing ID. But if they really wanted to, they could determine who you are in other ways (DNA from hair on clothing, etc)
EMPTY THE LUGGAGE OR ITEM AND PHYSICALLY SEARCH ITS CONTENTS BY A QUALIFIED SCREENER
Yeah, you got on the plane without showing ID. But if they really wanted to, they could determine who you are in other ways (DNA from hair on clothing, etc)
Something I want to try; get on the "no fly" list, legally change my name to something completely different (in a very small town, of course), legally get updated ID, and see how long it takes before I am on the "no fly" again.
(My guess is never.)
Incidentally, my credit report thinks my name is "Johnathan Rockway", which is a name I've never used on any credit card, nor one that appears on any ID I have ever possessed. Accurate!
(My guess is never.)
Incidentally, my credit report thinks my name is "Johnathan Rockway", which is a name I've never used on any credit card, nor one that appears on any ID I have ever possessed. Accurate!
On the last part, I'd caution you to look into that. I had a name that wasn't mine on my credit report and soon other things started appearing on my report that weren't my accounts. A lot of companies that report to the credit agencies just report the last four of your SSN and name. I started getting calls for someone that wasn't me from collections agencies.
Well, it is just one letter added to my real name. So probably someone fucking up data entry, not someone misusing my identity.
I'd be interested to know what happens to your credit report if you change your SSN. There are a few loopholes that allow some people to petition for a new SSN. Any idea if you become a new man?
Heh -- Well, it seems to have gotten your first initial and last name right at the very least. Maybe you go by John? Jonathon?
Either way, I enjoyed your idea and your tone. "Accurate!" he says...
Either way, I enjoyed your idea and your tone. "Accurate!" he says...
Funny how you can somehow tell the tone the author is using just by reading his words.
Very interesting article. I wonder how does it work in the EU. Have to get some legal friend to have a look at it! Perhaps I could have exchanged air tickets with people couple of times already...
Well, several EU countries have de facto requirements for you to carry ID at all times. The US allows one to go without identification for pretty much all purposes. Heck, most countries allow much more leeway for stop and search than the US does (being shackled by the fourth amendment here).
In France, while the law now states that one can prove their identity by any means, it is up to the officer asking you whether they accept your proof. So, if the officer doesn't accept 100 non-government documents and you don't have your ID with you, you're in trouble. Not carrying ID at all times can lead to arrest.
In Germany, every person must posses a national ID card, but there is some leeway about presenting it to a requesting official (it doesn't have to happen on the spot). Nevertheless, most carry one all the time.
In Greece, ID cards are compulsory and you can be detained for not presenting one upon request.
In Italy, you're only required to carry your ID card when outside your local authority, but unless you know all the police in your local authority, you're simply required to carry it always. Failure to present ID can result in detention until you can be identified.
Portugal requires you to present your ID card upon request, but doesn't mandate that you carry it at all times.
China requires every citizen to carry an ID card which will soon have biometric data about the person including reproductive history.
In Spain, you are required to present ID, but failure to do so won't end in arrest unless there's another reason to arrest you and you can request that the officer come to where you store the ID.
In France, while the law now states that one can prove their identity by any means, it is up to the officer asking you whether they accept your proof. So, if the officer doesn't accept 100 non-government documents and you don't have your ID with you, you're in trouble. Not carrying ID at all times can lead to arrest.
In Germany, every person must posses a national ID card, but there is some leeway about presenting it to a requesting official (it doesn't have to happen on the spot). Nevertheless, most carry one all the time.
In Greece, ID cards are compulsory and you can be detained for not presenting one upon request.
In Italy, you're only required to carry your ID card when outside your local authority, but unless you know all the police in your local authority, you're simply required to carry it always. Failure to present ID can result in detention until you can be identified.
Portugal requires you to present your ID card upon request, but doesn't mandate that you carry it at all times.
China requires every citizen to carry an ID card which will soon have biometric data about the person including reproductive history.
In Spain, you are required to present ID, but failure to do so won't end in arrest unless there's another reason to arrest you and you can request that the officer come to where you store the ID.
Do you have sources for these? I'm not disagreeing with any of them: I'm just wondering if there's a handy country-by-country guide somewhere, or whether these are just ones you happen to know, or the first ones you looked up, or ...
You have to carry your ID card in all the european countries!
At least in Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, France, Germany and also in Switzerland (not EU)
At least in Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, France, Germany and also in Switzerland (not EU)
OTOH, ID cards are not required in (at least) Sweden, Denmark and Norway (not EU). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_document#European_Unio...
Source?
Flying within a country is different from crossing international borders. Even within Schengen many (most?) countries still require visitors to be holding a valid travel document (passport or ID card). Random spot-checks are often carried out close to borders (although by local police, rather than immigration or border guards).
I'd certainly be interested in discovering whether airlines are required to confirm that passengers have these.
Many airlines now also require 'official' ID for flights even within a country, but AIUI that's purely airline policy rather than a legal requirement.
I'd certainly be interested in discovering whether airlines are required to confirm that passengers have these.
Many airlines now also require 'official' ID for flights even within a country, but AIUI that's purely airline policy rather than a legal requirement.
I've actually been checked in Holland by customs when coming home from a Schengen country.
He asked me to show an ID, I asked "why?", and he just responded "Because I say so". I was a bit too flabbergasted and not prepared for that answer and just showed him. He then proceeded to someone else who was even requested to come to the counter and let his bags get checked.
I'm curious whether I was actually required to do so.
He asked me to show an ID, I asked "why?", and he just responded "Because I say so". I was a bit too flabbergasted and not prepared for that answer and just showed him. He then proceeded to someone else who was even requested to come to the counter and let his bags get checked.
I'm curious whether I was actually required to do so.
Yeah, play hard ball and you hopefully will go to jail. What's the problem of showing your id?
The problem is that in the Netherlands there now is a law requiring you to show an ID if the cops ask for it.
However, this was allowed with the provision that the cops had a sensible reason for doing so, i.e. you broke the law, or you were doing something suspicious.
I see no reason why it is any of the cops business to know who I am when I'm just walking down the street.
Same situation applies at the border, there is a seperate section for Schengen countries in the Amsterdam airport and you normally get in and out without showing an ID. I see no reason why it suddenly is any business to the customs officer to see who I am.
I see no reason why it is any of the cops business to know who I am when I'm just walking down the street.
Same situation applies at the border, there is a seperate section for Schengen countries in the Amsterdam airport and you normally get in and out without showing an ID. I see no reason why it suddenly is any business to the customs officer to see who I am.
I agree with you, but couldn't someone from a non-Schengen country claim that they are from Schengen?
I think he's talking about the gates that handle flights to/from Schengen countries being in a different part of the airport, before passport control. The assumption is that once you're in Schengen the border guards at the first entry point should have ensured you're allowed to be there.
However, in every airport where I've seen that, I've certainly been able to get as far as the gate without ID (particularly if I've a pre-printed boarding pass), but I've always needed either a passport or EU member state ID card to actually get on the plane.
If you can get on without your ID, however, there are generally no checks at all at the far end.
However, in every airport where I've seen that, I've certainly been able to get as far as the gate without ID (particularly if I've a pre-printed boarding pass), but I've always needed either a passport or EU member state ID card to actually get on the plane.
If you can get on without your ID, however, there are generally no checks at all at the far end.
Ah, OK, this makes sense. I admit that I don't think much about immigration or customs when I am arriving in Europe because it is all so simple. It's only when arriving in the US that I dread the experience. (And I am a natural-born US citizen.)
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There is nothing "international", technically, about flying within the Schengen zone. Airlines don't require you to produce an ID because you're flying "internationally"; you need an ID to board a plane anywhere in the EU/EEA, also for "domestic" flights.
In 2010, you'll be able to fly without your passport in the Schengen-area.
Source?
Did anyone else notice this is from 2006? Anyone know if this is still possible? Was it ever possible?
The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ does not look like the pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me wonder.
The reason I ask is: http://www.lookingglassnews.org/ does not look like the pinnacle of journalistic integrity. The author of this story certainly sounds intelligent, but all of the conspiracy theory crap on this site makes me wonder.
It is true that if you simply don't have proper ID -- your wallet was stolen, for example -- it's still possible to fly; I think this involves going through the "heightened" pat-down screening. But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice.
John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/
John Perry Barlow (of EFF fame) litigated this issue in late 2006. He lost at every step. What came out of that is that the TSA does indeed have a written regulation requiring you show government ID, but that regulation is secret. Info on his litigation is at http://papersplease.org/gilmore/
But you are correct that rant-ish reports posted on sketchy web sites that make broad assertions of constitutional law are generally good sources of entertainment, but not legal advice.
Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)
Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court. Like anything, the Supreme Court is mostly about politics these days, rather than protecting anyone's rights. (Sometimes both interests are aligned, of course, but many times they are not; especially with respect to ID.)
Honestly, I think these folks have a better idea of what the intent of the Constitution was than many of the justices on the Supreme Court.
Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that works in court, not one with high moral ground.
Sorry to say that, but "good source of legal advice" is by definition one that works in court, not one with high moral ground.
Yes, definitely.
Incidentally, I have some recent US coins that say, "Live free or die," but it doesn't seem socially acceptable to have that attitude anymore.
"Live in constant fear of the government and live" doesn't have the same ring...
Incidentally, I have some recent US coins that say, "Live free or die," but it doesn't seem socially acceptable to have that attitude anymore.
"Live in constant fear of the government and live" doesn't have the same ring...
I believe you mean john gilmore rather than jpb.
I lost all of my identification one day before a series of domestic flights in the United States in Nov 2008. I was flying SFO <-> MSP and SFO <-> TUS.
If you are flying domestic between MSP and SFO during the holidays I highly recommend not bringing your ID. TSA simply put some marks on my boarding passes and make me go through special screening. It was better than the usual customer experience during the holiday flight season because the "terrorist aisle" was much shorter than the normal path through security. I wouldn't recommend it in PHX or TUS. The TSA agents there seemed to be people who really wanted to be Minutemen Militia border guards but weren't smart enough to get in.
If you are flying domestic between MSP and SFO during the holidays I highly recommend not bringing your ID. TSA simply put some marks on my boarding passes and make me go through special screening. It was better than the usual customer experience during the holiday flight season because the "terrorist aisle" was much shorter than the normal path through security. I wouldn't recommend it in PHX or TUS. The TSA agents there seemed to be people who really wanted to be Minutemen Militia border guards but weren't smart enough to get in.
I did something similar recently on a 5 city trip from SFO and I would not recommend it. Depending on the airport you could be in for some MAJOR hassle. I had an expired ID and I brought in mail from my current address along with credit cards.
A couple of the airports it took a 15min longer than the regular line (they call over supervisor now), and a few of the airports DHS called up to 5 friends with a long list of questions to verify who I was. Who wants DHS calling their friends and associates, I sure don't.
I flew with 0 ID a couple years ago and it was like having a zip pass to get through the line. Times have changed.
I flew with 0 ID a couple years ago and it was like having a zip pass to get through the line. Times have changed.
I wondered the same thing, so I did a little extra footwork.
Berkeley Professor David Wagner conducted basically the same research as this dude: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/
He came to similar findings regarding selectees: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html
Neither of those pages are dated, though, so it's still possible things have changed in the past three years. Even so, it's worth noting that both these sites are reporting post-9/11 information.
I'm curious and a bit adventurous, so perhaps I'll give it a shot. I bought the jetBlue pass, so I'll have plenty of opportunities. http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_...
Berkeley Professor David Wagner conducted basically the same research as this dude: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/
He came to similar findings regarding selectees: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/faa/noid.html
Neither of those pages are dated, though, so it's still possible things have changed in the past three years. Even so, it's worth noting that both these sites are reporting post-9/11 information.
I'm curious and a bit adventurous, so perhaps I'll give it a shot. I bought the jetBlue pass, so I'll have plenty of opportunities. http://jetblue.com/deals/all-you-can-jet/?intcmp=HPHero1Eng_...
According to the HTTP headers, noid.html was last modified on Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:54:16 GMT
I traveled domestically without I.D. just two weeks ago. They asked me to show anything I had with my name on it, such as credit cards, mail, etc. and put me through the more rigorous security check. It wasn't bad at all.
"...makes me wonder."
makes you wonder if the author sounds intelligent, and official explanations which require new physics to be plausible sound stupid, then maybe, just maybe the emporer really does have no clothes?
I fly often and can't imagine going through any of this just to prove a point. I always print my boarding pass at home, never check bags, go directly to security, and use my frequent flyer card to go through the express line. I show my driver's license for inspection, but no data from it is ever recorded. IMO, a small price to pay to move quickly through the airport.
I can't imagine going through this whole revolution just to start my own country.
All I have to do is give a toast to King George and pay a tax on tea, a small price to pay to stay part of Britain.
Canada did get out of it without a revolution. I get your point, though.
The last of the regulations seems to imply that it is possible to fly internationally without an ID. I have no idea what you would accomplish by boarding an internation airplane without an ID, because you will get sent back once you get there. There is no way the other country will accept you without a passport.
I'm sure there is some procedure for handling citizens who have lost their passports.
Yes, but it involves contacting your nearest consulate/embassy before boarding the plane. They normally verify some stuff internally (which is why it helps immensely to have photocopies that speed up the process as that contains the relevant numbers/barcodes that allow them to look you up quickly) and then they give you an "emergency travel document" or a new passport, depending on the situation. The ETD lets you travel back to your home country and then handle things from there.
If you have lost your passport, you have to go to a police station and make a claim. You can only board the plane with that claim (and there is normaly a police station on every major airport)
And PS: I hope that they wouldn't let in the ignorant author of the article in without a valid passport.
And PS: I hope that they wouldn't let in the ignorant author of the article in without a valid passport.
According to this article from Wired last year, TSA changed the rules so that now you can only fly without an ID if you claim that you lost it. So essentially they're giving up any increased security advantage (real or imagined) that comes from a mandatory ID requirement, for the purpose of sending the message that challenging authority will not be allowed.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/06/tsa-nixes-flyin/
Hmm. The article is not coming up for me at the moment. But that won't stop me from commenting!
I accidentally traveled without ID last year. My drivers license is the only picture ID I carry. I'd given it over to test drive a baby seat at a store, and forgot to get it back. Left for vacation the next day.
My stops were Portland, San Jose, and Austin. At all three airports I explained my situation, showed them my YMCA card (or library or credit card or something) and they marked my boarding pass for special security. The processes were not draconian, just a pat down, and actually faster than the regular security line. I skipped the line and went to some designated place on the side, zipped through the pat down, and then had to wait for my properly ID'd wife every time.
YMMV, but based on my experience, I highly recommend traveling without an ID!
I accidentally traveled without ID last year. My drivers license is the only picture ID I carry. I'd given it over to test drive a baby seat at a store, and forgot to get it back. Left for vacation the next day.
My stops were Portland, San Jose, and Austin. At all three airports I explained my situation, showed them my YMCA card (or library or credit card or something) and they marked my boarding pass for special security. The processes were not draconian, just a pat down, and actually faster than the regular security line. I skipped the line and went to some designated place on the side, zipped through the pat down, and then had to wait for my properly ID'd wife every time.
YMMV, but based on my experience, I highly recommend traveling without an ID!
Speaking of highly recommending traveling without an ID, on my way back from school last year, I got really stoned in my friend's car on the way to the airport. Me being stoned, I left my wallet in the car, and ended up at the airport with no ID.
I also got to go through the much-faster special screening, but I had to step into a chamber where they puffed you with air. Not for weed scent, for bombs, though I was mildly concerned at the time.
All in all a fun experience. Next time there's a big line at security, I'm going to tell them that I forgot my id. w00t
I also got to go through the much-faster special screening, but I had to step into a chamber where they puffed you with air. Not for weed scent, for bombs, though I was mildly concerned at the time.
All in all a fun experience. Next time there's a big line at security, I'm going to tell them that I forgot my id. w00t
Weed often sets off the bomb sensors, since the high concentration of fertilizers produce similar signatures ..
Dude, you totally harshed the mellow in here. Now he's gonna be all paranoid...
I don't believe you. Prove it.
Bomb detectors are designed to pick up traces of nitrates, the theory being that if you are making a DIY bomb, you're going to go the ammonia-nitrate route.
Nitrates exist in fertilizer - and thats what folks make bombs out of.
Weed is often fertilized with nitrates, and trace amounts of these elements are present in your sweat, in your pee, and so on. When you go through a bomb detector after a heavy weed weekend or so, you're going to be flagged for closer inspection.
This was explained to me by a security agent at an airport I was travelling through after a heavy week in Amsterdam.
Nitrates exist in fertilizer - and thats what folks make bombs out of.
Weed is often fertilized with nitrates, and trace amounts of these elements are present in your sweat, in your pee, and so on. When you go through a bomb detector after a heavy weed weekend or so, you're going to be flagged for closer inspection.
This was explained to me by a security agent at an airport I was travelling through after a heavy week in Amsterdam.
If you're in the US just tell them your wallet was stolen.
They'll put you in another line and often times it'll actually be faster than the main security line.
I've done this multiple times, the first time after I actually did lose my wallet in Vegas and had to fly back home. Apparently it happens all the time.
They'll put you in another line and often times it'll actually be faster than the main security line.
I've done this multiple times, the first time after I actually did lose my wallet in Vegas and had to fly back home. Apparently it happens all the time.
"...could not bar an American citizen from boarding a plane, even if a passenger refused to produce any identification at all!"
How exactly can you know if someone is an American citizen if they don't show any government approved ID saying so?
How exactly can you know if someone is an American citizen if they don't show any government approved ID saying so?
I'm a German citizen but travel with my Maryland-issued driver's license. There is no info about citizenship on it. Therefore I would say that even non-citizens can claim this right. How would you prove you are a citizen? Your U.S. passport would be the only way.
People like to use the word "citizen" for some reason, even when it is not accurate. The protections of the US Constitution apply to all "people", not all "citizens". The word "citizen" mostly occurs when referring to voting and running for office (both which do require citizenship).
Everyone gets a jury trial, free speech, etc.
Everyone gets a jury trial, free speech, etc.
People like to use the word "citizen" because it's a way of broadcasting their tribal identity. These little war dances are generally done by people with citizenship of high-status nations; one doesn't tend to see people going around bragging about how they are Togolese citizens, for example. However, it's certainly not a behaviour limited to Americans: I've seen plenty of Brits and Canadians do it too.
Exactly. That is why they can't really bar anyone. Thus the lawsuits.
Its like in Argentina, they have some toll roads but in their constitution they claim that roads may not be charged for. So people pass through the tolls claiming "I am declaring that I am refusing to pay the toll in accordance to our constitution." And vuala, no toll :)
We must use our legal rights to fight back from the government grabbing power.
Its like in Argentina, they have some toll roads but in their constitution they claim that roads may not be charged for. So people pass through the tolls claiming "I am declaring that I am refusing to pay the toll in accordance to our constitution." And vuala, no toll :)
We must use our legal rights to fight back from the government grabbing power.
The rules in the US seem to have changed this summer to require ID in almost every case. See Flyertalk's security forum here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/984568...
Very disappointing and arguably unconstitutional.
Very disappointing and arguably unconstitutional.
Thank you for returning my faith in civil rights and the US Constitution. The home of the free and the land of the brave is at grave risk of becoming extinct as long as good men and women sit and watch their basic freedoms eroded continuously in the name of fighting illusionary 'terrorists'
the article is a bit stale. This page is up to date: http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/
Assuming this article is valid - how would an airline even know that the name on the ticket doesn't match if I refuse to produce ID? (it was a domestic flight so no passport)