Show HN: Tock, a Time Tracking Tool by 18F(18f.gsa.gov)
18f.gsa.gov
Show HN: Tock, a Time Tracking Tool by 18F
https://18f.gsa.gov/2015/05/21/TockingTime/
36 comments
We looked at doing things like logging git commit frequency to try and provide realistic estimates to users of their time that they could then confirm or alter. Realistically, with the diversity of talent we have here (both technical and non-technical) and the time it would take to do well, it didn't really seem too practical.
It would be awesome if WakaTime and others provided some way of interfacing with an API, so that individuals could track time in a way that made sense for them while reporting in a relatively consistent standard to a central system used for accounting and billing.
It would be awesome if WakaTime and others provided some way of interfacing with an API, so that individuals could track time in a way that made sense for them while reporting in a relatively consistent standard to a central system used for accounting and billing.
> It would be awesome if WakaTime and others provided some way of interfacing with an API
We have an API you can use to log your own time:
https://wakatime.com/api
https://wakatime.com/help/misc/creating-plugin
We have an API you can use to log your own time:
https://wakatime.com/api
https://wakatime.com/help/misc/creating-plugin
Yeah, I built (and later shut down) didlog http://www.didlog.com/ a while ago which I had hoped would eventually turn into something like this. Track code commits, calendar events, emails, files changing, etc to try to put together a map of everything you're working on.
I knew I'd be biting off more than I could chew if I tried to tackle time tracking from the start so I was hoping I could build something useful before moving into that area. Turns out, I couldn't (given my limited time and resources).
I knew I'd be biting off more than I could chew if I tried to tackle time tracking from the start so I was hoping I could build something useful before moving into that area. Turns out, I couldn't (given my limited time and resources).
You might wanna checkout out my recent project if you're using Git: https://github.com/timeglass/glass - fully automated using git hooks and file monitoring and 100% offline, no account required
There are a lot of tools in that space, if you can bear the privacy implications. The one I used in the past was RescueTime (https://www.rescuetime.com/).
I'm currently using Timing.app. The only complaint (aside from some apps not being properly supported) I have is that there's no way to track across machines. I'm currently exporting and merging the data which is probably the best solution anyway.
> Time tracking is one of those things that I see constantly being reinvented. Whether it's spreadsheets that get emailed, completely custom solutions, or one of the numerous services available, few of them actually provide anything new.
I think that's because nobody provides enough hooks in enough different places to make something work for everyone. I'd call it the SAP problem. First you spend $3mm buying it and then you spend another $20mm customizing it.
Once the assumptions about how something will work are baked in, it's very difficult to change the database schema without breaking everything, and writing a translation layer on top of it is probably more work that it's worth.
A truly universal time tracking app would take a few years and a few million to develop properly so that it can be extended and changed and customized and by the time you've supported a million different use-cases it would have been easier for a dozen different people to write their own.
I think that's because nobody provides enough hooks in enough different places to make something work for everyone. I'd call it the SAP problem. First you spend $3mm buying it and then you spend another $20mm customizing it.
Once the assumptions about how something will work are baked in, it's very difficult to change the database schema without breaking everything, and writing a translation layer on top of it is probably more work that it's worth.
A truly universal time tracking app would take a few years and a few million to develop properly so that it can be extended and changed and customized and by the time you've supported a million different use-cases it would have been easier for a dozen different people to write their own.
I would argue it's because of the confluence of a few factors:
* It's a problem lots of programmers have (programmers always solve problems they themselves have first) * It's a problem that seems like it should be easy to solve * It's a problem that doesn't require a large team to bootstrap an MVP
So you get a lot of "version 0.1" type solutions, as people set own to scratch their own personal itches. But then once version 0.1 is out the door they start looking at other peoples' itches, discover that there's a bazillion little wrinkles and corner cases that make it hard to evolve a specialized tool into a more general-purpose one-size-fits-all-one, so they just settle for leaving their own tool as it is rather than trying to address all those corner cases to get it to a "version 1.0" level.
* It's a problem lots of programmers have (programmers always solve problems they themselves have first) * It's a problem that seems like it should be easy to solve * It's a problem that doesn't require a large team to bootstrap an MVP
So you get a lot of "version 0.1" type solutions, as people set own to scratch their own personal itches. But then once version 0.1 is out the door they start looking at other peoples' itches, discover that there's a bazillion little wrinkles and corner cases that make it hard to evolve a specialized tool into a more general-purpose one-size-fits-all-one, so they just settle for leaving their own tool as it is rather than trying to address all those corner cases to get it to a "version 1.0" level.
I think we've agreed with one another, though perhaps I didn't word my version of it quite right the first time.
For a long time I used Emacs and org-mode for this purpose: It can track time when visiting buffers, so I simply needed to assign projects to buffers (most of the time).
TimeTracker is another great solution ( http://creativeworx.com/ ).
> I have enough trouble remembering what I did yesterday, let alone last month.
I have started to write this down, for my own good. Writing what I did at the end of the day, makes it easy to pick up where I left it the next day.
Additionally, for reviews&stuff I now have a list of everything I've done I can check before the meeting. The list makes it easy to remember that I should bring up how I solved issue X promptly Y months ago.
I have started to write this down, for my own good. Writing what I did at the end of the day, makes it easy to pick up where I left it the next day.
Additionally, for reviews&stuff I now have a list of everything I've done I can check before the meeting. The list makes it easy to remember that I should bring up how I solved issue X promptly Y months ago.
Self-plug: our Zhen HRM system includes timesheets / time tracking in addition to vacations, reports, etc. Time tracking can be done through clicking Start / Stop when you are working on projects.
You can find the system at the link below, and there is a fully functional free demo you can try out.
http://zhen81.com/product/zhen-hrm/
You can find the system at the link below, and there is a fully functional free demo you can try out.
http://zhen81.com/product/zhen-hrm/
I've been using http://www.paymoapp.com for some time now and it fits my needs to track time and also do project management (tasks and tasks lists). The desktop widget is awesome, I know how much time I've spent working or doing something else.
Anyone got any already written time tracking software that they like (on github or not)?
I wrote mine, but I track tasks and milestones rather than time spent.
Time tracking makes sense for freelancers and other people who bill by the hour but personally I tried rescuetime & co. and I do not see the point in knowing how long I was on facebook or how long I spent editing a particular file.
Milestones require manual input but I find that information much more relevant.
Time tracking makes sense for freelancers and other people who bill by the hour but personally I tried rescuetime & co. and I do not see the point in knowing how long I was on facebook or how long I spent editing a particular file.
Milestones require manual input but I find that information much more relevant.
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If you're using git: https://github.com/timeglass/glass
Not free, but I use Klok (http://www.getklok.com/) and enjoy it
I have tried various solutions and finally decided on this one: https://github.com/samg/timetrap
There's one simple way I've found to keep up on your time reports: you don't get paid if you don't turn in a timesheet.
The places I've worked that had this policy didn't have any issues with tracking time.
The places I've worked that had this policy didn't have any issues with tracking time.
Love the callout to the Chosen.js library...one of those fantastic plug-and-play interface libraries that makes it so less painful to add a nearly essential feature to forms/data-selection.
edit: Added clickable link to chosen.js homepage
http://harvesthq.github.io/chosen/
edit: Added clickable link to chosen.js homepage
http://harvesthq.github.io/chosen/
On the theme of constantly re-inventing time-tracking, it's interesting that 18F called out chosen in their write-up of their time-tracking solution, since chosen is developed and maintained by Harvest, which primarily sells a time-tracking solution.
https://www.getharvest.com/
https://www.getharvest.com/
As a long time user of Harvest, I have to say it is refreshing to see open source alternatives being developed.
Harvest is expensive for moderate-sized teams but their support is very fast to respond and the user experience is quite nice. Yet, after noticing a glaring flaw in Harvest considering non-billable hours as 'Budget', I'm stuck and have to live through never ending over-budget false alerts. Without an ETA, this is the time where I'd be happy to roll my sleeves up, get it fixed and submit a pull request...
Harvest is expensive for moderate-sized teams but their support is very fast to respond and the user experience is quite nice. Yet, after noticing a glaring flaw in Harvest considering non-billable hours as 'Budget', I'm stuck and have to live through never ending over-budget false alerts. Without an ETA, this is the time where I'd be happy to roll my sleeves up, get it fixed and submit a pull request...
I was thinking, that looks just like Select2 which I've used a few times and seems it's a more actively developed plugin, inspired by Chosen. Differences discussed here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13575531/what-are-the-di...
Just wondering -- are either Chosen or Select2 508-compliant or screen-reader friendly?
Man, that is nice. Oh the hours I've spent on that...
Nice! If only I had seen this last Wednesday.....
Doesn't work on mobile?
I'm surprised that they developed a brand new time tracking tool. From my limited experience, it seems Deltek Time & Expense is the most popular time tracking application in the government / associated contractor space.
As a former subcontractor that was forced to use Deltek for a couple years, I will agree that it's the most popular... but I haven't the faintest notion of why. It wasn't the worst option available, but that didn't stop it from being terrible regardless.
Time-tracking keeps getting reinvented because no one's solved it definitively yet. I don't think anyone ever will, either; time tracking relies too much on individual context for it to be wholly standardized.
Time-tracking keeps getting reinvented because no one's solved it definitively yet. I don't think anyone ever will, either; time tracking relies too much on individual context for it to be wholly standardized.
Given that there is no download link or price, I'm going to assume that 18F is not the kind of place that was going to pay top dollar for a cruddy, expensive third party service.
>>> Given that there is no download link or price
Like everything 18F produces, Tock is a work of the US Government and is in the public domain. There's a link to the GitHub repository in the blog post (https://github.com/18f/tock). We don't intend to launch Tock as a service, rather, it's something we made for internal use that is open for others if they find value in it.
Like everything 18F produces, Tock is a work of the US Government and is in the public domain. There's a link to the GitHub repository in the blog post (https://github.com/18f/tock). We don't intend to launch Tock as a service, rather, it's something we made for internal use that is open for others if they find value in it.
I think he was referring to Deltek, not Tock.
Here's Deltek's GSA schedule (price list page 20 and on), though I don't know which product includes "Time & Expense".
https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F0004P/0NIRVO.31QO...
https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F0004P/0NIRVO.31QO...
What I want is a product that tracks my time for me. WakaTime is probably the closest I've seen. If only it worked outside of my text editor and automatically submitted my timesheets for me. I'm supposed to submit timesheets weekly, I probably do it closer to monthly (and I know I'm not the only one). I have enough trouble remembering what I did yesterday, let alone last month.