Ask HN: Most hacker friendly laptop on the market?
Hi fellow Hackers!
I am a grad student/wannabe-enterprenuer/hacker and I am really looking for advice in choosing a good work machine that would suit all three roles. Your advice is most welcome. I've been using company laptops and an old Dell Studio that worked well for last 7 years. Now I need one and the market is flooded with configurations and models. Maybe this discussion can help me and others in choosing something that is our livelihood :)
89 comments
I'm using the new Dell XPS 13 Developer's Edition, without the touch screen. I've found build quality to be a step up for Dell, but still a bit flimsy especially around the cover of the monitor.
I like that it's pre-vetted hardware for running Ubuntu/Linux, has very long battery life, and the screen is really a joy to look at.
It's a 13-inch screen crammed into an 11-inch laptop body, so you get a lot of screen real-estated without the full bulkiness.
I also love the lightweight (close to MacBook light here), and the versatility in connectors (a detractor for the MacBook line for me).
In addition, out of the box things like 5GHz ac wifi just works under Linux.
I like that it's pre-vetted hardware for running Ubuntu/Linux, has very long battery life, and the screen is really a joy to look at.
It's a 13-inch screen crammed into an 11-inch laptop body, so you get a lot of screen real-estated without the full bulkiness.
I also love the lightweight (close to MacBook light here), and the versatility in connectors (a detractor for the MacBook line for me).
In addition, out of the box things like 5GHz ac wifi just works under Linux.
I would definitively recommend this one as well, the quality is very good.
Some downside with the Ubuntu version:
* the trackpad not deactivated when typing, that's a real pain, have you found a solution?
* the wake up after a suspension will sometimes generate some problems (no wifi etc..)
Some downside with the Ubuntu version:
* the trackpad not deactivated when typing, that's a real pain, have you found a solution?
* the wake up after a suspension will sometimes generate some problems (no wifi etc..)
I got the trackpad being disabled when typing, see this discussion for reference:
https://github.com/advancingu/XPS13Linux/issues/3#issuecomme...
I haven't had any real problems with waking up from suspension, it only takes a little time sometimes. Disabling and re-enabling the WiFi should work anyway, if you lost your WiFi connection.
https://github.com/advancingu/XPS13Linux/issues/3#issuecomme...
I haven't had any real problems with waking up from suspension, it only takes a little time sometimes. Disabling and re-enabling the WiFi should work anyway, if you lost your WiFi connection.
Same laptop but with the 3200 x 1800 screen. The pre-installed Ubuntu version was so slow; stuttering, major screen tearing, and HDPI font issues everywhere. Basically unusable. However, I updated the BIOS and installed Fedora 22. Had to install proprietary Broadcom WiFi drivers, but GNOME 3 works great with HDPI and the system is way more responsive. Touchscreen is a little useless though :)
That being said, I like the laptop with Fedora and would recommend it.
That being said, I like the laptop with Fedora and would recommend it.
I had the predecessor, the xps 12 inch, I was very happy with it. The touchscreen was unessasary, but it actually works in Debian. The xps line in general is a good mix of Linux compatible hardware, processor/memory options, price and surprisingly solid build quality.
My main complaint and why I have a macbook air now (even though it is inferior in most respects, I pay for a osx but never booted it) is that I ride alot of trains and the power connector on the Dell landed the machine on the ground a few times when people tripped on my wire. It uses the normal metal tube into hole design. The laptop still works, but it makes me wonder why dell never made a magnetic power connector. My mobile phone has one and it's a Sony/Ericsson.
My main complaint and why I have a macbook air now (even though it is inferior in most respects, I pay for a osx but never booted it) is that I ride alot of trains and the power connector on the Dell landed the machine on the ground a few times when people tripped on my wire. It uses the normal metal tube into hole design. The laptop still works, but it makes me wonder why dell never made a magnetic power connector. My mobile phone has one and it's a Sony/Ericsson.
Because Apple has a patent on it.
Can vouch for modern linux kernels working out the box on the 2015 XPS 13. It's the happiest I've ever been with a laptop.
For some reason I cannot find Dell XPS developer edition with Ubuntu. Dell redirects me to the page that has same laptop but with Windows installed. I hate it :/ Is it discontinued?
http://i.imgur.com/WpfJJqZ.png
"hopefully it will be availabel within 2-3 weeks"
"hopefully it will be availabel within 2-3 weeks"
Barton George mentioned on Twitter[0] that they're working on implementing some new fixes into those systems at the factory.
[0] https://twitter.com/barton808/status/622791090823827456
[0] https://twitter.com/barton808/status/622791090823827456
Thinkpads. If you don't mind used and want something inexpensive and still decent, the T420s/X220s are pretty cheap ($250-400USD depending on configuration) and still very good machines.
Won't break (dropped mine on cement before and came back with just a few scratches and a small dent in the metal) and they're reasonably fast.
Won't break (dropped mine on cement before and came back with just a few scratches and a small dent in the metal) and they're reasonably fast.
Ditto. Used them all of my professional life. I've also had a Dell, a Toshiba, an HP, and two Macbooks. The Thinkpads were the only things that worked well.
I've been using an IdeaPad (The Thinkpad's consumer-oriented co-brand), namely a Yoga. Although I miss the red mouse pointer thing, it's otherwise an ideal development platform, with enough disk space for Docker and VirtualBox. Oh, and it runs Mint perfectly so my Docker images are compatible with almost any Debian-based deployment environment.
I've been using an IdeaPad (The Thinkpad's consumer-oriented co-brand), namely a Yoga. Although I miss the red mouse pointer thing, it's otherwise an ideal development platform, with enough disk space for Docker and VirtualBox. Oh, and it runs Mint perfectly so my Docker images are compatible with almost any Debian-based deployment environment.
Don't forget the keyboard! It's so good.
And you didn't hear this from me, but if you replace the WiFi card you will have perfect OS X compatibility with a T420.
And you didn't hear this from me, but if you replace the WiFi card you will have perfect OS X compatibility with a T420.
I am very happy with my X220. Decent battery life, great keyboard, and performance that rivals even the very latest models in the same form-factor. The only negative point for me is the screen resolution of only 1366x768.
Some people don't like the trackpoint, but I love it so much that I've disabled the trackpad completely.
I honestly think that it's the best value laptop currently available.
Some people don't like the trackpoint, but I love it so much that I've disabled the trackpad completely.
I honestly think that it's the best value laptop currently available.
x01-x230 were all great. x201 with an ssd runs like a modern laptop. hated that the x240 lacked trackpoint buttons. x250 doesnt have the texture of the x230, x230 is probably my favorite, but x250 has a modern processor with battery life.
I agree. I've a T530 with Quad Core i7 and I prefer it to my previous MacBook Pro. I'm running Debian Jessie.
I believe it's also possible to replace the BIOS with CoreBoot, however I haven't tried.
I like the fact that I can easily replace components (battery, cd-rom with an extra HDD, etc.). Lastly, I agree, they're rock solid and survive most drops and even waterspills.
I believe it's also possible to replace the BIOS with CoreBoot, however I haven't tried.
I like the fact that I can easily replace components (battery, cd-rom with an extra HDD, etc.). Lastly, I agree, they're rock solid and survive most drops and even waterspills.
I've seen tons of people recommending Thinkpads on HN, and I was just wondering what exactly makes them so popular? OK, I get that they are unbreakable, but anything else?
(Especially since they look kinda ugly too, IMO...)
> but anything else?
To me, the keyboard is crucial. It has great tactile feedback, and even the new layout is quite reasonable by comparison. Apple keyboards have great acoustic feedback that ThinkPads lack, but they omit so many important (for powerusers) keys. I would like to try out the XPS 13, it's the keyboard layout that is holding me back.
> Especially since they look kinda ugly too
The ThinkPad design polarizes. For me, MacBooks and ThinkPads are among the few laptops that don't look ugly. I can't stand silver-colored or glossy plastic and stuff like that. I, like many ThinkPad customers, appreciate the traditional simplicity of the black box. I do understand why other people may find it ugly.
To me, the keyboard is crucial. It has great tactile feedback, and even the new layout is quite reasonable by comparison. Apple keyboards have great acoustic feedback that ThinkPads lack, but they omit so many important (for powerusers) keys. I would like to try out the XPS 13, it's the keyboard layout that is holding me back.
> Especially since they look kinda ugly too
The ThinkPad design polarizes. For me, MacBooks and ThinkPads are among the few laptops that don't look ugly. I can't stand silver-colored or glossy plastic and stuff like that. I, like many ThinkPad customers, appreciate the traditional simplicity of the black box. I do understand why other people may find it ugly.
My X220 was one of my favorite laptops.
Only downsides:
- Low res TN screen. It's atrocious.
- Lenovo nerfed the Trackpoint drivers at some point, making it impossible to configure the middle button behavior.
Only downsides:
- Low res TN screen. It's atrocious.
- Lenovo nerfed the Trackpoint drivers at some point, making it impossible to configure the middle button behavior.
That and the trackpad is near impossible to use. I still only use the button-mouse-nipple thing within the keyboard...
I agree, the Trackpoint was all I used. I always disabled the touchpad so I wouldn't accidentally brush it with my hand.
That was the ~only~ downside to the keyboard/mouse I ran into. Other than that it was a great experience.
As others have said - I did dislike the screen to an extent, but it got the job done.
As others have said - I did dislike the screen to an extent, but it got the job done.
I can confirm the X220 has excellent ergonomics.
Macbook pro retina, 13"/15" dependend on your pockets. You won't get the same quality cheaper and the battery can easily last through the entire work day. It's a productive environment, though, so if you really want to tinker with the hardware pieces, this may not be the right choice for you.
There are tradeoffs, but the 11" and 13" Macbook Airs are also worth considering imo. I personally greatly prefer them, mainly for the lighter weight and better battery life (also, they're cheaper). I especially like the 11". Downsides are slower CPU and lower-res screen.
The MBAs are nice for the battery life and especially the weight, but I find the 11" is too small for me. I can't be productive with so little screen real estate. Some of my peers really regretted getting the 11".
The 13" MBA I had was nice, but I ended up replacing it with a 15" MBP for the power and higher resolution.
I originally replaced an insanely heavy 17" MBP with the 13" MBA, so the weight of the 15" MBP doesn't really bother me even though I carry it around everywhere.
The 13" MBA I had was nice, but I ended up replacing it with a 15" MBP for the power and higher resolution.
I originally replaced an insanely heavy 17" MBP with the 13" MBA, so the weight of the 15" MBP doesn't really bother me even though I carry it around everywhere.
I thought screen-size might be an issue, but I've settled into a workflow of mostly working inside a full-screened iTerm2, which I'm really enjoying. For that it's plenty big; with the font size I use, you can fit two 95-char editor windows side by side (or an editor window and a prompt, etc.). Obviously that particular work style won't suit everyone though.
The weight difference between my old 13" MBP (4.5 lbs) and the 11" MBA (2.4 lbs) is big enough to make a difference for me since I constantly have it slung over my shoulder. It looks like they've since lightened the 13" MBP to 3.5 lbs, though, so it's not as big a difference now.
The weight difference between my old 13" MBP (4.5 lbs) and the 11" MBA (2.4 lbs) is big enough to make a difference for me since I constantly have it slung over my shoulder. It looks like they've since lightened the 13" MBP to 3.5 lbs, though, so it's not as big a difference now.
Non retina here is the dealbreaker for me. :/
What about the 2015 macbook? I own one and it's been great. (can't remember the last time I needed any ports on my laptop anyway.)
I couldn't get the hand on one yet, so i honestly don't know how well it performs on a daily basis. I went with the new 13"pro for now, and so far its been excellent.
I've been using one for almost a month now. Solid device as long as you're not doing anything super demanding on the hardware (A couple of VMs work just fine).
My only complaint is that it's not very waterproof.
My only complaint is that it's not very waterproof.
My Chromebook can run Ubuntu in a Chrome tab for 10 hours. ~350 bucks.
Google Products are a no-go for me and for an increasing number of people i know. Be it hardware, software or languages/frameworks, it actually doesn't matter how good they are. The exception is search itself for now, because the competition often doesn't cut it (yet). This is of course just my stance/view.
I have come to like duckduckgo instead for search. Even when I do want to use google for a search, it's as simple as typing "!g search term" in the bar. I find it nice for searching and then if I don't find what I want I can switch quickly to get google scholar results "!gsc search term". There's a rather large list of "bang" search options[1].
[1] https://duckduckgo.com/bang
[1] https://duckduckgo.com/bang
Yet, Kevin Mitnick (yeah really) endorses them to people who answer his question "Would you spend $300 to amp up your security"
I don't pipe sensitive data through the Google cloud, but as far as hardware prices go, the Chromebook has ABSOLUTELY got Apple beat.
Furthermore, Google makes efforts to fight back against NSL's, and even have canaries implemented.
I don't use Google products when there is something better, obviously but refusing to use something of a superior quality for some reason you can't actually articulate seems ridiculous to me.
I have no sympathy who are afraid to use things because someone might be watching, especially not when that person can't be bothered to consider just using something else for sensitive data, but instead whine and moan about how SuccessfulCorp is ruining everything, blah blah, etc.
Too many 'anons' are obsessed with security, yet oftentimes they are the most security-ignorant demographic on the market.
I don't pipe sensitive data through the Google cloud, but as far as hardware prices go, the Chromebook has ABSOLUTELY got Apple beat.
Furthermore, Google makes efforts to fight back against NSL's, and even have canaries implemented.
I don't use Google products when there is something better, obviously but refusing to use something of a superior quality for some reason you can't actually articulate seems ridiculous to me.
I have no sympathy who are afraid to use things because someone might be watching, especially not when that person can't be bothered to consider just using something else for sensitive data, but instead whine and moan about how SuccessfulCorp is ruining everything, blah blah, etc.
Too many 'anons' are obsessed with security, yet oftentimes they are the most security-ignorant demographic on the market.
The funny thing is, that I actually never mentioned privacy concerns here, my "anon" name comes from funny times on 4chan several years ago.
I just don't want to build anything of value ontop of their products, either because work customer contracts demand privacy policies, or work today must be maintained the next 20years to come (non-startup environment) and my experience with google is that they don't care about these scenarios.
I just don't want to build anything of value ontop of their products, either because work customer contracts demand privacy policies, or work today must be maintained the next 20years to come (non-startup environment) and my experience with google is that they don't care about these scenarios.
Why are Google products a no go for you and people you know?
This is a long story of issues mixed with political reasons and sprinkled with european anti-google stances. While this may be interesting to discuss with others, my experience is that it would end in fundamentalisitc flame wars... This doesn't belong into this thread.
Somebody with a nickname like ANONYfox clearly cares about privacy more than average. If you care about privacy, Google (or Facebook or or or...) is a no-go.
What do you mean run Ubuntu in a Chrome tab? Is this a full virtual machine?
He is probably using Crouton : https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton
Life is too short not to buy a Mac. I have an rMBP 15" and its awesome. After years of using Macs, I got a ThinkPad T450s because of the keyboard. It's now sitting on a shelf while I set it up for my dad.
It's okay. The screen is okay, pretty bad backlight bleed.[1] It's got a weird memory configuration--you can run dual channel only up to 8GB. The keyboard is fantastic, but the touchpad is awful. [2] Apple's touchpad is unmatched, and induces less cramping than the trackpoint.
Windows is getting better. I think Windows 10 is pretty good. But its not better than OS X, and Visual Studio is the only Windows app I miss. Even Office 2016 is just as good on the Mac (unless you have particular Excel-related needs). Retina support is still far better in OS X, and its 2015 and a non-retina screen isn't acceptable any more.
[1] I got the AUO screen, I hear the LG is better, but that's one thing you risk on the PC side--everyone has less tight sourcing tolerances than Apple.
[2] The touchpad on my work-issued T430 is better. That's another fact of PC-life: Its pretty much a crapshot whether the next iteration of any given model will have major regressions in trackpad quality or battery life or screen quality. PC manufacturers just don't care--they'll source whatever part is cheapest.
It's okay. The screen is okay, pretty bad backlight bleed.[1] It's got a weird memory configuration--you can run dual channel only up to 8GB. The keyboard is fantastic, but the touchpad is awful. [2] Apple's touchpad is unmatched, and induces less cramping than the trackpoint.
Windows is getting better. I think Windows 10 is pretty good. But its not better than OS X, and Visual Studio is the only Windows app I miss. Even Office 2016 is just as good on the Mac (unless you have particular Excel-related needs). Retina support is still far better in OS X, and its 2015 and a non-retina screen isn't acceptable any more.
[1] I got the AUO screen, I hear the LG is better, but that's one thing you risk on the PC side--everyone has less tight sourcing tolerances than Apple.
[2] The touchpad on my work-issued T430 is better. That's another fact of PC-life: Its pretty much a crapshot whether the next iteration of any given model will have major regressions in trackpad quality or battery life or screen quality. PC manufacturers just don't care--they'll source whatever part is cheapest.
> Life is too short not to buy a Mac.
Yeah, except when scrolling a website on a EUR2500 rMBP stutters. (That was one reason mine is sitting on the shelf.) And the charging cable breaks. The Macbook charging cable of the 27" Cinema Display also breaks, and it is built into the display so you can't just buy another one for $5. And it's nice and thin but now when it's 30 degrees in my room (I hate aircons and there's almost 40 outside) GPU and GPU both run over 90 Celsius even only 1 from the 4 CPU core is in use and fans are running at maximum. When an external display is connected the case above the top keyboard row is so hot that it burns my fingers.
I fully see the advantages of a Mac for development (for me that was mostly the *nix part of the system, i.e. the console), but it's not just roses. :)
Yeah, except when scrolling a website on a EUR2500 rMBP stutters. (That was one reason mine is sitting on the shelf.) And the charging cable breaks. The Macbook charging cable of the 27" Cinema Display also breaks, and it is built into the display so you can't just buy another one for $5. And it's nice and thin but now when it's 30 degrees in my room (I hate aircons and there's almost 40 outside) GPU and GPU both run over 90 Celsius even only 1 from the 4 CPU core is in use and fans are running at maximum. When an external display is connected the case above the top keyboard row is so hot that it burns my fingers.
I fully see the advantages of a Mac for development (for me that was mostly the *nix part of the system, i.e. the console), but it's not just roses. :)
I concur, and if you need Windows apps, like Visual Studio, just run them in Parallels. Now if you are writing (web) applications which you're going to deploy to, say, Ubuntu, then do yourself a favor and, even though OSX is *nix, develop them in an Ubuntu VM on the Mac -- that will save you a ton of trouble.
the reason it has weird memory is probably cuz you got the s instead of the normal or P model. slim laptops take shortcuts.
Some stuff to remember:
- thinness does not matter that much. If you want your stuff to look cool, then it does, but for portability it doesn't. - thinness affects cooling. You don't want your battery get ruined, your CPU throttled and your lap burned. - expandability matters on the long run
I just replaced my 2013 rMBP. I needed the following: - expandable storage -- I can put 3 SSDs in this
- expandable memory - 4 DIMM slots, up to 64G RAM
- dockable
- trackpoint
- can drive UHD screens @ 60 Hz
- as Linux friendly as possible
- good keyboard
- good cooling
- IPS screen, min. fHD
I ended up buying the HP Zbook 15 G2. The only issue with that is UDH external screens and Linux-friendliness don't go together, because those displays require discrete GPU (Broadwells can drive UHD screens through MST, but most displays don't support that). The other alternative was the Thinkpad W550s, but I could get the G2 at half the price (and it's much more powerful).
I didn't buy:
- smaller devices because I'm working on this 10 hours a day sometimes, and portability itself wasn't enough to compensate for less power, less memory, worse cooling - Thinkpad .40 series because of their clickpads
- Dell Precisions because they're extremely bulky and HPs have better keyboard
- Macbooks because OSX was not an option for me after using it for 2.5 years, also they don't have a trackpoint and their cooling is really abysmal
- anything from smaller vendors like System76, etc. because they all use OEM chassis and they're a far cry from top-end HP, Dell, Lenovo and Apple chassis
I personally don't understand how could anyone recommend a 11" MBA to someone who wants to do serious work on it. A 11" screen is extremely uncomfortable for all-day coding; if you keep it docked all day then might make sense though.
- thinness does not matter that much. If you want your stuff to look cool, then it does, but for portability it doesn't. - thinness affects cooling. You don't want your battery get ruined, your CPU throttled and your lap burned. - expandability matters on the long run
I just replaced my 2013 rMBP. I needed the following: - expandable storage -- I can put 3 SSDs in this
- expandable memory - 4 DIMM slots, up to 64G RAM
- dockable
- trackpoint
- can drive UHD screens @ 60 Hz
- as Linux friendly as possible
- good keyboard
- good cooling
- IPS screen, min. fHD
I ended up buying the HP Zbook 15 G2. The only issue with that is UDH external screens and Linux-friendliness don't go together, because those displays require discrete GPU (Broadwells can drive UHD screens through MST, but most displays don't support that). The other alternative was the Thinkpad W550s, but I could get the G2 at half the price (and it's much more powerful).
I didn't buy:
- smaller devices because I'm working on this 10 hours a day sometimes, and portability itself wasn't enough to compensate for less power, less memory, worse cooling - Thinkpad .40 series because of their clickpads
- Dell Precisions because they're extremely bulky and HPs have better keyboard
- Macbooks because OSX was not an option for me after using it for 2.5 years, also they don't have a trackpoint and their cooling is really abysmal
- anything from smaller vendors like System76, etc. because they all use OEM chassis and they're a far cry from top-end HP, Dell, Lenovo and Apple chassis
I personally don't understand how could anyone recommend a 11" MBA to someone who wants to do serious work on it. A 11" screen is extremely uncomfortable for all-day coding; if you keep it docked all day then might make sense though.
I'm surprised you say that thinness doesn't matter for portability. I couldn't imagine going back to my previous ThinkPad (currently using a 13" Macbook Air) - it would take up so much space in my bag. Remember that by thinning a laptop, you also make it lighter too.
I personally think weight matters, but not thinness. I used to use a 12" Powerbook. I now use a 11" Macbook Air. I still use the same bag to carry it around. Being thinner didn't win me anything. However, being lighter is a definite win.
Hypothetically, if I could get the same laptop that is thicker, but cheaper, but is the same weight and has full sized ports for things like ethernet (or ports that were removed like SD cards, firewire, etc) instead of requiring dongles and attachments, I would get the thicker one.
(A coworker bought a 15" Powerbook the same time I got my 12". We went to a conference and were lugging our laptops all day for a week. The weight difference took its toll on my coworker by the end of the week.)
Hypothetically, if I could get the same laptop that is thicker, but cheaper, but is the same weight and has full sized ports for things like ethernet (or ports that were removed like SD cards, firewire, etc) instead of requiring dongles and attachments, I would get the thicker one.
(A coworker bought a 15" Powerbook the same time I got my 12". We went to a conference and were lugging our laptops all day for a week. The weight difference took its toll on my coworker by the end of the week.)
I bought a Zbook 15 last year (the G2 is the 2015 model) and I'm pretty happy with it. I replaced Windows with Ubuntu, had some issues with shutdown/suspend and Usb 3 but I eventually fixed them. Nice to know it's got more Linux friendly this year.
I have the Dell Precision M3800 with 15' screen. I haven't found it to be bulky.
I got it with Ubuntu preinstalled and it's been my favorite laptop so far.
I got it with Ubuntu preinstalled and it's been my favorite laptop so far.
Yep, the M3800 is not the usual precision, it's an XPS15 with Quadro.
THIS. So much this.
The number of people recommending MacBooks makes me cringe a little. Sure the build quality is good, but I can't live with the keyboard's crippling lack of keys and the need to constantly use the mouse in OSX. Lenovo isn't fairing much better these days - I have a T440p, and the lack of the 'menu' key (between right-alt and right-ctrl) drives me nuts. The lack of Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Delete on the Mac also drives me crazy.
For those of us who live on the keyboard and hate to touch the mouse (too slow and inefficient), these days are dark times..
Also: why aren't we seeing >16 GB of ram in laptops yet? I realise workstation laptops are at 32, and possibly 64 GB now, but why are some brands going backwards from 16GB down to 12 and even 8?
As for my recommendation? There isn't a single laptop on the market that I like, I'm sad to say. Lenovo dropped the ball, and dell's build quality isn't up to par. I'd look at an HP workstation, or maybe one of the Lenovo W541's, although the keyboard isn't much better than on a MacBook.
The Chromebook Pixel 2 (the top spec one) is such a tantalising glimpse of what could be - just shoehorn in more hard drive space, add a mini-DP port and an RJ-45, and most people would be good to go...if they fixed the keyboard.
Sorry for the rant! Just overly frustrated with the state of the market.. Won't someone just release a standard workstation laptop without following all the keyboard/mouse trends?!?
For those of us who live on the keyboard and hate to touch the mouse (too slow and inefficient), these days are dark times..
Also: why aren't we seeing >16 GB of ram in laptops yet? I realise workstation laptops are at 32, and possibly 64 GB now, but why are some brands going backwards from 16GB down to 12 and even 8?
As for my recommendation? There isn't a single laptop on the market that I like, I'm sad to say. Lenovo dropped the ball, and dell's build quality isn't up to par. I'd look at an HP workstation, or maybe one of the Lenovo W541's, although the keyboard isn't much better than on a MacBook.
The Chromebook Pixel 2 (the top spec one) is such a tantalising glimpse of what could be - just shoehorn in more hard drive space, add a mini-DP port and an RJ-45, and most people would be good to go...if they fixed the keyboard.
Sorry for the rant! Just overly frustrated with the state of the market.. Won't someone just release a standard workstation laptop without following all the keyboard/mouse trends?!?
Have you tried to make OS X keyboard friendly? Window Management - Spectacle: http://spectacleapp.com, App Launcher - Quicksilver: http://qsapp.com, also just learning each app's keybindings as I incorporate them into work.
OS X also has some of the best text manipulation in apps: https://coderwall.com/p/usc8qg/use-emacs-readline-key-bindin.... As a Emacs/Bash user, I haven't found anything as consistent, even in Linux.
For your missing keys Home = Cmd + Up, End = Cmd + Down, PgUp = Shift + Space, PgDn = Space, Delete = control + d
OS X also has some of the best text manipulation in apps: https://coderwall.com/p/usc8qg/use-emacs-readline-key-bindin.... As a Emacs/Bash user, I haven't found anything as consistent, even in Linux.
For your missing keys Home = Cmd + Up, End = Cmd + Down, PgUp = Shift + Space, PgDn = Space, Delete = control + d
Thanks for the good advice. Yes, I've tried most of these (spectacle is new to me though), but I've found that shortcuts aren't very consistent between apps, plus there's no shortcuts for manipulating windows; eg, [alt+space, x] for maximize. Maximising windows is a whole other problem (rightzoom mostly fixes this.. mostly). It's little workflow issues like that which put me off OSX. I used it for work for three months before I couldn't take it any more, despite learning a lot of shortcuts and 'fixer' apps in the mean time.
These days, I like windows as my main OS, with a linux VM for real work.
These days, I like windows as my main OS, with a linux VM for real work.
There's nothing wrong with your setup. I personally just got a Macbook Pro 13 inch because I wanted to become familiar with the Apple ecosystem, coming from mainly Windows and Linux worlds.
I can honestly say given a couple of weeks, I could be productive on any of the platforms. But it just comes down to preference here.
The issues you mention for manipulating windows - that is "fixed" by installing a Window Manager such as one of the following (some free, some paid);
Free:
Spectacle http://spectacleapp.com/
Paid:
Divvy http://mizage.com/divvy/
BetterSnapTool https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bettersnaptool/id417375580?m...
=====
It sounds like you gave it a fair shot though, which is fine. Use whatever you are most productive in :)
I can honestly say given a couple of weeks, I could be productive on any of the platforms. But it just comes down to preference here.
The issues you mention for manipulating windows - that is "fixed" by installing a Window Manager such as one of the following (some free, some paid);
Free:
Spectacle http://spectacleapp.com/
Paid:
Divvy http://mizage.com/divvy/
BetterSnapTool https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bettersnaptool/id417375580?m...
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It sounds like you gave it a fair shot though, which is fine. Use whatever you are most productive in :)
FWIW, the RAM trend is related to power, heat, and the increased speed of disk. SSD performance offsets some of the reduction in RAM, at a much better heat/power cost. Swap is much more viable on SSD than spinning disks, making huge RAM sizes less important for most user tasks.
Power consumption is a valid reason, however most T- or W- laptops from Lenovo aren't aimed at the mobile user - they're aimed at the power user. I know I'd gladly trade an hour of battery life or an extra 500 grams of battery for another 16 gigs of ram.
At least screen resolution and panel quality is being taken much more seriously these days.. It was a nightmare for nearly 10 years there.
At least screen resolution and panel quality is being taken much more seriously these days.. It was a nightmare for nearly 10 years there.
I'm an infosec guy, and I use a 13" retina MacBook Pro. Unfortunately my work laptop is different, but for outside of work (security is my hobby as well as my work), the MacBook does exactly what I need. Long battery life, great build quality, and the screen is amazing for reading a lot.
I'm not a fan of Apple, but when I was looking through my options while shopping for a new laptop recently, there was nothing else that seemed like it wasn't a compromise for the same price.
I'm not a fan of Apple, but when I was looking through my options while shopping for a new laptop recently, there was nothing else that seemed like it wasn't a compromise for the same price.
Purism is building crowdfunded laptops (13", 15") based on user feedback on features (e.g. VT-d and TPM to support Qubes) and privacy (hardware switches for camera, wireless and microphone). Where feasible, components are used which support libre drivers and firmware.
https://puri.sm/
https://puri.sm/
Note the current HN discussion on Purism:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912034
(It's not all favourable...)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912034
(It's not all favourable...)
I also recommend a Macbook (Air or Pro depending on how much dev).
Most students these days seem to be using Apple products, laptops or iPads. This makes it easy to deal with your University's IT department if/when they make you do special things to get access to their networks. (I remember the days when only Windows was supported and getting Mac/Linux to work with campus networks and services was a huge ordeal.)
As an entrepreneur, a lot of tech companies are mobile focused which means iOS is in the mix. To do any native development requires a Mac. And to do pitching/presentations, Macs are very nice for creating and presenting that type of stuff. (Guy Kawasaki has warned Windows users to expect to lose 20 minutes setting up your PowerPoint display for a pitch.) Additionally, VCs tend to use iPhones and iPads now...your Mac data will usually interoperate better.
For hacking, again, if mobile is a concern, Mac is the only platform that lets you do both iOS and Android. The Unix heritage on Mac makes dealing with the harder areas of Android development easier than on Windows (Linux is okay).
If you are doing heavy development, then a Macbook Pro is probably better. If you are doing light development, Air is fine. With Xcode, RAM is more important than CPU. So max out the RAM on any Air. (I don't know if the 12" Macbook will have enough RAM where you will be happy with Xcode.)
Most students these days seem to be using Apple products, laptops or iPads. This makes it easy to deal with your University's IT department if/when they make you do special things to get access to their networks. (I remember the days when only Windows was supported and getting Mac/Linux to work with campus networks and services was a huge ordeal.)
As an entrepreneur, a lot of tech companies are mobile focused which means iOS is in the mix. To do any native development requires a Mac. And to do pitching/presentations, Macs are very nice for creating and presenting that type of stuff. (Guy Kawasaki has warned Windows users to expect to lose 20 minutes setting up your PowerPoint display for a pitch.) Additionally, VCs tend to use iPhones and iPads now...your Mac data will usually interoperate better.
For hacking, again, if mobile is a concern, Mac is the only platform that lets you do both iOS and Android. The Unix heritage on Mac makes dealing with the harder areas of Android development easier than on Windows (Linux is okay).
If you are doing heavy development, then a Macbook Pro is probably better. If you are doing light development, Air is fine. With Xcode, RAM is more important than CPU. So max out the RAM on any Air. (I don't know if the 12" Macbook will have enough RAM where you will be happy with Xcode.)
If you don't mind waiting a bit, the ThinkPad "Retro" is quite promising. We might get a good ThinkPad with modern hardware: http://www.zdnet.com/article/a-retro-thinkpad-classic-could-...
The company is even asking customers and thinking about backtracking to old designs. It's wise decision. I thought I would never see this, especially after introducing island-style keyboards and the Superfish fiasco: http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/nc/
If you are in a hurry, I would recommend getting a x220 and then waiting to see what we get. The x220 was really good, except for a horrible trackpad and a slightly noisy fan.
The company is even asking customers and thinking about backtracking to old designs. It's wise decision. I thought I would never see this, especially after introducing island-style keyboards and the Superfish fiasco: http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/nc/
If you are in a hurry, I would recommend getting a x220 and then waiting to see what we get. The x220 was really good, except for a horrible trackpad and a slightly noisy fan.
If you mean "hacker friendly" as in completely free/libre software, one of these would probably be ideal:
http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/libreboot-x200/
The older X60 is slower but also similar, and Thinkpads (before Lenovo bought them) are very robust hardware-wise.
http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/libreboot-x200/
The older X60 is slower but also similar, and Thinkpads (before Lenovo bought them) are very robust hardware-wise.
No one can definitively tell what OP means with "hacker friendly." I think it's time to retire that word
I initially used a think pad (T61p) with ubuntu installed on it, subsequently moved to the chromebook but finally settled for a macbook pro late 2014 , its the best undoubtedly . look at craigslist in your area for a re-sale one in case your budget is a bit constrained.
If you just want to get shit done, I recommend a macbook air 13" (or pro if you can afford it).
Shit will just work (mostly), updates won't (generally) break things and you can just do work.
When I was younger with more free time, I would have recommended a Lenovo or a Thinkpad running some variant of debian and happily messed around making things work how I want. Now I'm contracting and every hour I spend trying to make my computer work is an hour I can't bill - I find my tolerance for down-time is pretty much zero
Shit will just work (mostly), updates won't (generally) break things and you can just do work.
When I was younger with more free time, I would have recommended a Lenovo or a Thinkpad running some variant of debian and happily messed around making things work how I want. Now I'm contracting and every hour I spend trying to make my computer work is an hour I can't bill - I find my tolerance for down-time is pretty much zero
My hands are too big to type on anything smaller than a 15" laptop. 17" would be better, so you actually have some screen real-estate to work with, if your intent is to do actual work on it. Ideally something with an aluminum case, since the screen hinges on plastic case models wear out so quickly. Something that has accessible panels for upgrading/replacing RAM and hard-disks, without having to completely disassemble the case. Something with a standard keyboard layout, with real F1-F12 function keys, and a full numpad on the right.
Get a cheap wireless/bluetooth mouse that takes AA batteries and turn off the trackpad.
If carrying around a 5 lb laptop is an issue, you might want to go to the gym a little more often ;-)
Unless you have to do iOS work and need to have XCode, I wouldn't pay the 300% Apple tax. There should be something offered by Acer or Asus for $500-600 that would fit your needs. Get the cheapest one that has a decent processor/GPU (don't worry about the HD or memory, as long as the motherboard supports at least 8GB DDR3). Throw an SSD and some decent memory sticks in it, and install a clean version of Windows, without all the bloatware, or your favorite flavor of Linux.
Get a cheap wireless/bluetooth mouse that takes AA batteries and turn off the trackpad.
If carrying around a 5 lb laptop is an issue, you might want to go to the gym a little more often ;-)
Unless you have to do iOS work and need to have XCode, I wouldn't pay the 300% Apple tax. There should be something offered by Acer or Asus for $500-600 that would fit your needs. Get the cheapest one that has a decent processor/GPU (don't worry about the HD or memory, as long as the motherboard supports at least 8GB DDR3). Throw an SSD and some decent memory sticks in it, and install a clean version of Windows, without all the bloatware, or your favorite flavor of Linux.
weight matters if you're trying to travel light, not just for carrying around.
I hate to redirect a question by someone else, but I also am looking.
Would really like to see Ubuntu AND Kali Linux laptop that supports these requests:
A decently high resolution screen (minimum of 1280x1024) wifi hacking capable (hardware that will work natively with Kali) Faster than ARM - for processing reasonable password hashing (not 3d GPU level) and running VM's of Windows
Thanks all including original poster.
Would really like to see Ubuntu AND Kali Linux laptop that supports these requests:
A decently high resolution screen (minimum of 1280x1024) wifi hacking capable (hardware that will work natively with Kali) Faster than ARM - for processing reasonable password hashing (not 3d GPU level) and running VM's of Windows
Thanks all including original poster.
The word "hacker" is completely meaningless now. Based on OP's intro ("wannabe-entrepreneur") , I don't think it means "penetration tester" in this context.
I'll vote for (yet) another Mac. I bought a retina 15 with my accrued leave when I left my last job and my current job bought me another. Neither, with varying workloads and duty cycles has ever left me wanting. My hackerness leans more toward cloud instances and microcontroller/raspberry Pi hardware, which the Mac works with just niftily. I _did_ have an issue with finding a usb/serial/terminal solution to talk to the console on a Palo Alto Firewall, but a second machine was easy enough to borrow while performing the initial config.
(Yeah, I'm a console gamer...while 'games' is the historical achilles heel of the mac, I've not had any problems with the types of games I play (Bioshock/Portal))
(Yeah, I'm a console gamer...while 'games' is the historical achilles heel of the mac, I've not had any problems with the types of games I play (Bioshock/Portal))
Whatever laptop a hacker can get his hands on, is a hacker's laptop. and a friendly one is one that is easily upgradeable, like x86. Get a reasonable x86 laptop. In my opinion, something with an 8gb, 500gbs i5 equivalent should be more than sufficient.
Mac laptops are definitely the go to in the startup world. If you're using it for work and you plan on doing programming, this will make that transition much easier. Biggest perk? They have a unix operating system.
For things that are linux specific, you can always use a VM through Vagrant (there's few practical reasons you'd need a Linux GUI).
If you truly want a "Hacker" laptop, then what you actually want is the Novena. :D https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
For things that are linux specific, you can always use a VM through Vagrant (there's few practical reasons you'd need a Linux GUI).
If you truly want a "Hacker" laptop, then what you actually want is the Novena. :D https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
> a good work machine that would suit all three roles
You need a server that is hosted in the internet, a desktop system with a good mouse and keyboard, and two or more screens, and a laptop that is portable and cheap.
I really can not see, how to combine those 3 different roles, into one machine, as those roles have different locations: Server room, desktop and shoulder bag.
For laptop the only requirements are: max 2lbs as one has to carry it, maximum $300 as a laptop can be damaged or stolen easy, and it must run 100% free software without binary blobs, when it comes to wifi and graphics.
You need a server that is hosted in the internet, a desktop system with a good mouse and keyboard, and two or more screens, and a laptop that is portable and cheap.
I really can not see, how to combine those 3 different roles, into one machine, as those roles have different locations: Server room, desktop and shoulder bag.
For laptop the only requirements are: max 2lbs as one has to carry it, maximum $300 as a laptop can be damaged or stolen easy, and it must run 100% free software without binary blobs, when it comes to wifi and graphics.
MacBook 13 or 15 retina. A great 13" for software development can be had for ~$1200.
Why Mac:
* It's Unix-like.
* Homebrew is fantastic for OSS package management.
* It's ubiquitous. (Yeah you could use Arch Linux instead of a Mac with Homebrew, but Homebrew will always get updates first.)
* Great battery life. (Linux often sucks at this.)
Why Retina:
* Text is extremely clear. It may seem like nothing before you've used it for a while, but you'll never go back.
* More real estate for side-by-side viewing of whatever you need.
* The Retina MBPs are actually quite light, enough so that I don't have MacBook Air envy ever.
Why Mac:
* It's Unix-like.
* Homebrew is fantastic for OSS package management.
* It's ubiquitous. (Yeah you could use Arch Linux instead of a Mac with Homebrew, but Homebrew will always get updates first.)
* Great battery life. (Linux often sucks at this.)
Why Retina:
* Text is extremely clear. It may seem like nothing before you've used it for a while, but you'll never go back.
* More real estate for side-by-side viewing of whatever you need.
* The Retina MBPs are actually quite light, enough so that I don't have MacBook Air envy ever.
The Macbook Air 11/13" is a solid solid workhorse. You don't necessarily need the extra power that MBPs offer.
My 2012 MBA is still perfect today.
Two things to note: 1) Max out the RAM and CPU 2) The 2015 13" MacbookAir has much faster PCIE storage for some reason
In addition to this, I sometimes remote desktop into a £500 Windows Laptop (80% as fast as TOP-end unreleased Broadwell) from pcspecialist.co.uk with an i7-4810mq processor). Also has nvidia 860M graphics!
15" MacbookPro with old graphics for £2500 is outrageous.
My 2012 MBA is still perfect today.
Two things to note: 1) Max out the RAM and CPU 2) The 2015 13" MacbookAir has much faster PCIE storage for some reason
In addition to this, I sometimes remote desktop into a £500 Windows Laptop (80% as fast as TOP-end unreleased Broadwell) from pcspecialist.co.uk with an i7-4810mq processor). Also has nvidia 860M graphics!
15" MacbookPro with old graphics for £2500 is outrageous.
I just bought a ASUS 303LN. Was tossing this up vs the Dell XPS 13 and Mac Book Air. Seems a fairly good machine for a reasonable price point. If getting make sure you get the 5th gen processor as some places still sell with the 4th.
http://www.ultrabookreview.com/4274-asus-zenbook-ux303ln-rev...
http://www.ultrabookreview.com/4274-asus-zenbook-ux303ln-rev...
I think macbook is the best if you don't want to use linux. I had some issues with it using linux. I also purchased lenovo x1 carbon, but I don't like it I tell you. the build quality is kinda low. I also heard some good things about dell xps 13. but I also saw compatibility complains.
I've been using a Thinkpad X1 Carbon (3rd gen) with ubuntu on dual boot no problem. It's pretty thin like that other brand, and has good battery life in both OS, like 6-9hrs depending on use. Visual studio and netflix? 6hrs. Coding in a text editor: 8-10.
I use an Asus N550JK. It's got good performance and handles Linux well, except for Optimus support which is still not great.
I used to own a MacBook Pro, but had bad experiences with hardware failures and Apple sweeping such defects under the rug for as long as possible.
I used to own a MacBook Pro, but had bad experiences with hardware failures and Apple sweeping such defects under the rug for as long as possible.
I've got a macbook pro 15 retina and the new Macbook. Would recommend either. Though you might want to offload heavy workloads to a droplet/linode if you go for the new Macbook.
If freedom is an issue, ThinkPad X60 would be the only viable option. If not, a high end MacBook or ThinkPad depending on what you like.
The market is flooded — just buy any brand with a reputable repair rate at a price that fits.
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dell xps 9333 with ubuntu
I love my Surface Pro 3. It's better than anything. Sure, you can buy a Mac - but then you have to use OS X :(
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