Spin wants to bring dock-less bike sharing to the US(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Spin wants to bring dock-less bike sharing to the US
https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/25/spin-wants-to-bring-dock-less-bike-sharing-to-the-us/?
112 comments
> It's validating to see a more skilled team put together a solid product
Don't put yourself down. It looks like the founders are reasonably well financed, probably well connected, and of course the Bay area effect.
Don't put yourself down. It looks like the founders are reasonably well financed, probably well connected, and of course the Bay area effect.
No, I was in my early twenties, didn't know how to scope a project, didn't know how to effectively push back on scope creep, and didn't really have the technical chops for what we were attempting. I learned a ton and wouldn't make the same mistakes again, but none of us had any prior startup experience. These guys have a lot of startup experience, and being well connected is being skilled at networking. I'm not being self deprecating, this team is objectively more experienced than we were.
I love this comment, thanks for sharing it. And next time, you'll be the "more skilled person".
What part of making a solid product did you fail at (if you don't mind sharing)?
Turns out hardware is hard. My view of it is scope creep that caused delays in starting environmental testing, ultimately leaving us with too little time to properly address the problems that we discovered.
We tried to use 3d printed cases for the prototype units, but it turns out 3d printed material (at least the type we used) is porous and doesn't respond well to heat expansion when left out in the sun. We spent far too long trying to get our 15 printed cases to be watertight, and once we finally did, they expanded in the sun and cracked. But we couldn't afford injection molding and didn't properly explore cheaper plastic casting methods.
We spent a bunch of money on tooling for cast aluminum parts that ended up being about 1/32" too tight and complicated fitting components in. And we had a major scope creep in the form of wanting to support mid-rental lockup (we were "stationless" in that the bikes had all the tech, there was still a rack that rentals started/ended at) via a retractable pin and chain, that ended up causing electrical issues with detecting lockup, condensation issues due to the larger openings, much more complicated mechanical workings... I honestly think that if we had cut that single feature, things might have turned out differently.
We tried to use 3d printed cases for the prototype units, but it turns out 3d printed material (at least the type we used) is porous and doesn't respond well to heat expansion when left out in the sun. We spent far too long trying to get our 15 printed cases to be watertight, and once we finally did, they expanded in the sun and cracked. But we couldn't afford injection molding and didn't properly explore cheaper plastic casting methods.
We spent a bunch of money on tooling for cast aluminum parts that ended up being about 1/32" too tight and complicated fitting components in. And we had a major scope creep in the form of wanting to support mid-rental lockup (we were "stationless" in that the bikes had all the tech, there was still a rack that rentals started/ended at) via a retractable pin and chain, that ended up causing electrical issues with detecting lockup, condensation issues due to the larger openings, much more complicated mechanical workings... I honestly think that if we had cut that single feature, things might have turned out differently.
Hello HN! I'm Euwyn, one of the co-founders of Spin (also, 2x YC alum). We're excited about bringing the dock-less bikeshare model to our home city of SF.
I've lived in SOMA for years, and have always wanted to bike around, except: (a) it was always a hassle to deal with a bike after going around town, because I would inevitably end up Uber-ing somewhere after my first stop and (b) my bikes would get stolen :(
Would love to hear any questions you guys had about the business, and look forward to you guys riding our bikes soon.
ps. If you want to follow along or have any questions about Spin or startups in general, I'm 'euwyn' on Whale and Snapchat.
I've lived in SOMA for years, and have always wanted to bike around, except: (a) it was always a hassle to deal with a bike after going around town, because I would inevitably end up Uber-ing somewhere after my first stop and (b) my bikes would get stolen :(
Would love to hear any questions you guys had about the business, and look forward to you guys riding our bikes soon.
ps. If you want to follow along or have any questions about Spin or startups in general, I'm 'euwyn' on Whale and Snapchat.
I love my local bikeshare and dock-less would be a huge improvement.
I've never noticed theft, and while there was some initial vandalism it never impacted our experience.
My local program allows us to check out 4 bikes at a time, per account. Last summer, my partner and I would check out 8 bikes and go out on the town with friends. The ability to share my bikeshare with my friends allows me to ride a lot more - it sucks to be in the mood to go for a ride and be hanging out with people who don't have bikes.
I've never noticed theft, and while there was some initial vandalism it never impacted our experience.
My local program allows us to check out 4 bikes at a time, per account. Last summer, my partner and I would check out 8 bikes and go out on the town with friends. The ability to share my bikeshare with my friends allows me to ride a lot more - it sucks to be in the mood to go for a ride and be hanging out with people who don't have bikes.
Thanks for the support! Making biking more accessible for everyone is one of our goals with Spin. Where are you based, and what's your local program?
PS. This is Derrick, one of the co-founders of Spin :D
PS. This is Derrick, one of the co-founders of Spin :D
Portland Oregon's "Niketown" program
What are you using for for networking/on board computing? The article mentions 2G is used in China - however here in the US such services are being depricated [1].
[1] https://www.att.com/esupport/article.html#!/wireless/KM10848...
[1] https://www.att.com/esupport/article.html#!/wireless/KM10848...
Hey stevenrace, I'm Derrick, one of the co-founders of Spin. Given our roots in the US, we're building our bikes for the local market, and use different tech than the Chinese companies, for example, FCC-compliant devices or networks that are available in the US (3G and newer).
This is a completely empty statement.
Since you are one of the co-founders you should be able to spend at least some effort on answering the actual question or explain why you would chose not to do so.
Since you are one of the co-founders you should be able to spend at least some effort on answering the actual question or explain why you would chose not to do so.
How do you deal with bike rebalancing?
This is key, otherwise a bike being available at the right time just becomes too rare.
Also, getting sign-off & GPS to work reliably in urban environments - it is super frustrating paying by the minute and being unable to stop the clock - or being directed to a bike location and finding nothing there.
Also, getting sign-off & GPS to work reliably in urban environments - it is super frustrating paying by the minute and being unable to stop the clock - or being directed to a bike location and finding nothing there.
We've a few tricks up our sleeves here to make it effective and affordable for us.
Dynamic pricing to incentivize trips that bring bikes back to high-demand origin points?
Say a bike does get stolen, then you'd need to contact the police, but maybe the police are busy and don't actually care, that's the pain point that I see, maybe its a baseless concern.
As far as I know, it's far from a baseless concern. Paris, for example, lost 9000 bikes just in a year. Relying on the police seems folly, they probably just have to make a good estimate and price-in the replacements into their business model.
> (b) my bikes would get stolen
This is why I don't ride a bike in Philadelphia. I don't know anyone here who rides a bike and hasn't had it stolen at least once.
The only way to guarantee your bike isn't stolen is to bring it inside, which isn't an option at most workplaces. And even if it was an option it's a huge hassle.
This is why I don't ride a bike in Philadelphia. I don't know anyone here who rides a bike and hasn't had it stolen at least once.
The only way to guarantee your bike isn't stolen is to bring it inside, which isn't an option at most workplaces. And even if it was an option it's a huge hassle.
Alternatively, buy a cheaper bike. Most folks in Belgium and the Netherlands use bikes that are 50-100 euro, so if your bike gets stolen every couple of years it's not that big of a deal.
When I was working in London, I was always worried about having my bike stolen if I rode to work. Just before I moved back to Japan I started doing the math. My train fare was 18 GBP per day to go a grand total of 30 km each way (22 km as the crow flies). 18 GBP * 5 = 90 GBP per week. As long as I got my bike stolen less than once a month, I could have had a reasonably decent commuter bike and still come out ahead :-P By the time I realised it, I wasn't in good enough shape to ride 60 km a day and I was just about to leave anyway.
Even at 20mph, that's nearly 2 hours a day. What an insane amount of commute time.
It can be enjoyable though. You'll save time in other areas too - will be more awake, won't need to do cardio exercise at the gym etc.
Yeah, 60km per day is about 3 hours. But the same commute by train was 1.5 - 2 hours depending on the day. So if you like cycling, then it means you get 60km of cycling in for an investment of 1 - 1.5 hours. Definitely worth it in my book. I think the more reasonable problem with the plan was the poor weather and lack of sunlight in London. I'm now working remotely, so I can cycle all I want.
I doubt you'd manage 20mph unless you jump red lights. My 10 mile commute in Manchester takes 45 minutes mainly because of traffic and lights.
It really does depend on the route you take. I don't take the shortest route as that involves lots more junctions, more lights and more conflict; my route algorithm is mostly about minimising stress.
7 mile commute in London and analysis of my GPS tracklogs show that, on average, I am stopped at 5 out of the 23 traffic lights there are on my commute with only 3-4 minutes of stopped time on a 30 minute commute.
It's helped by long sections of nice wide road with few junctions where good progress can be made. The best example of this is Battersea Bridge to Lambeth Bridge (North side of the river) so going along Chelsea Embankment, Grosvenor Road and Millbank, with Cycle Superhighway 8 between Chelsea Bridge and Lambeth Bridge.
[ Sure this is only 14mph (compared to the ~20mph I'd do on the open road) but I'm also on a much heavier bike hauling plenty of clothes/lunch/stuff to and from work. It's still a good workout. The few times I've done it very early or very late I've come a lot closer to 20mph as I'm not slowed up by traffic.
The OPs journey might also be 2/3 rural-ish roads where you can make good progress, say closer to 25mph, and then the last 1/3 of the journey where maintaining that speed without interruption isn't so easy. ]
7 mile commute in London and analysis of my GPS tracklogs show that, on average, I am stopped at 5 out of the 23 traffic lights there are on my commute with only 3-4 minutes of stopped time on a 30 minute commute.
It's helped by long sections of nice wide road with few junctions where good progress can be made. The best example of this is Battersea Bridge to Lambeth Bridge (North side of the river) so going along Chelsea Embankment, Grosvenor Road and Millbank, with Cycle Superhighway 8 between Chelsea Bridge and Lambeth Bridge.
[ Sure this is only 14mph (compared to the ~20mph I'd do on the open road) but I'm also on a much heavier bike hauling plenty of clothes/lunch/stuff to and from work. It's still a good workout. The few times I've done it very early or very late I've come a lot closer to 20mph as I'm not slowed up by traffic.
The OPs journey might also be 2/3 rural-ish roads where you can make good progress, say closer to 25mph, and then the last 1/3 of the journey where maintaining that speed without interruption isn't so easy. ]
Buy a used bike, with any luck it'll be your own
I live in Philadelphia. I've been riding a bike around town for a decade. I've never had a bike stolen. What's my secret? Lock it up properly, and don't leave it out overnight. Pretty simple, really. During the day -- at least in center city -- it's fine as long as it's locked up properly.
Standard practice in London is to ride a Brompton, which folds so compactly you can keep it by/under your desk.
For those interested: over here in China (specifically Shanghai) is a massive bike sharing war being fought, where the two largest incumbents have been given well over $200m in investment money over the last year. The leading brands are Mobike and Ofo, with around 4 other small competitors creeping in.
Mobike was started by an ex-Uber China manager, launched in Shanghai - whereas Ofo had been developed as a bike sharing scheme in universities.
Mobike has GPS enabled, QR unlocked bicycles. Where as Ofo are not GPS enabled and are unlocked with a simple analogue pin code bike lock.
If you want to know more, let me know.
Mobike was started by an ex-Uber China manager, launched in Shanghai - whereas Ofo had been developed as a bike sharing scheme in universities.
Mobike has GPS enabled, QR unlocked bicycles. Where as Ofo are not GPS enabled and are unlocked with a simple analogue pin code bike lock.
If you want to know more, let me know.
Great summary. I started using Mobike+subway+Mobike to get to/from work after Uber China stopped offering generous subsidies.
I use both Mobike and Ofo, depending on which is available.
Advantages of Mobike:
- Map-based view of nearby bikes
- Can reserve a bike for 15 mins, whilst you walk to it from wherever you are (good if you're a couple of subway stops away)
- Bikes are plentiful in most places I go
Mobike disadvantages:
- Bikes take some effort to ride, perhaps due to a dynamo and the weight of the electronics
Ofo advantages:
- Bikes are light and easy to ride
Ofo disadvantages:
- Need to wander around to find one, which takes time, even if the app tells you there are some nearby
- Quite common for an Ofo bike to be locked to something using a private chain (i.e. someone has stolen it), and you don't know until you walk up to it
I use both Mobike and Ofo, depending on which is available.
Advantages of Mobike:
- Map-based view of nearby bikes
- Can reserve a bike for 15 mins, whilst you walk to it from wherever you are (good if you're a couple of subway stops away)
- Bikes are plentiful in most places I go
Mobike disadvantages:
- Bikes take some effort to ride, perhaps due to a dynamo and the weight of the electronics
Ofo advantages:
- Bikes are light and easy to ride
Ofo disadvantages:
- Need to wander around to find one, which takes time, even if the app tells you there are some nearby
- Quite common for an Ofo bike to be locked to something using a private chain (i.e. someone has stolen it), and you don't know until you walk up to it
> - Quite common for an Ofo bike to be locked to something using a private chain (i.e. someone has stolen it), and you don't know until you walk up to it
How about always carrying a metal saw with you?
How about always carrying a metal saw with you?
You're not allowed to carry weapons or weapon-like things on the subway in Beijing. There are x-ray machines at every entrance.
> - Bikes take some effort to ride, perhaps due to a dynamo and the weight of the electronics
The shaft drive can't help either.
The shaft drive can't help either.
I wrote this a few weeks ago about the Chinese scene
http://publicaddress.net/speaker/shenzens-hire-bike-explosio...
http://publicaddress.net/speaker/shenzens-hire-bike-explosio...
The problem I've always had: what I want from a bikeshare is to be able to exit the train station, grab a bike, bike the remaining kilometer or two to work and drop the bike. Later in the day I want to do the same in reverse.
That only works in a hub program if there's a dock next to my office building. (You can count on a dock being next to the train station.) Or I could pay for all-day rental of the bike, when I'm only using it for two ten-minute periods.
In a dockless system, does it actually get any better for my use case?
That only works in a hub program if there's a dock next to my office building. (You can count on a dock being next to the train station.) Or I could pay for all-day rental of the bike, when I'm only using it for two ten-minute periods.
In a dockless system, does it actually get any better for my use case?
That's exactly the use case we're going after. Docks work if you happen to near them, and most people aren't within a convenient distance from them. We aim to place everyone within minutes of one of our bikes at any point in time, so you wouldn't have to think about commuting between docks.
Hmmm you should come to New York. Citibike is absolutely everywhere... but then again you'd never have to bike a kilometer from the train station to get where you need to be either.
[deleted]
This is exactly how I use Mobike and Ofo (the two main dockless bike share companies in China).
I also wouldn't be satisfied with solid tires.
Are solid tires really so bad if you're only going a few miles on asphalt at a moderate speed? Seems better than risking a flat or under inflated tire. If they have to send bike mechanics to change and inflate tubes all the time it kind of kills the economics of bike sharing.
I stopped using the Bay Area Bike Share bikes and just bought my own commuter bike for a couple hundred bucks. The lighter frame and narrow tires have improved the biking part of my commute so much. The difference is just astounding. It could be a big difference.
Are they solid, or spongey? Solid rubber would be quite heavy, and most riders wouldn't like the rotational inertia.
they are actually full of holes look closely at the closest orange tire in this pic
http://d3nd7i493f0o21.cloudfront.net/assets/resized/img/bike...
http://d3nd7i493f0o21.cloudfront.net/assets/resized/img/bike...
This has been available in Germany for 17 years, run by the rail company (DB):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_a_Bike
And some cities also have their own programs, such as Munich's MVG Rad (E48/year for 30 min per day): https://www.mvg.de/services/mobile-services/mvg-rad.html
And some cities also have their own programs, such as Munich's MVG Rad (E48/year for 30 min per day): https://www.mvg.de/services/mobile-services/mvg-rad.html
And there was a fun CCC talk about hacking them: http://www.ccc.de/en/hackabike
Nextbike a german company offers station less bikeshare, or at least a hybrid model, dockless within a central area and with stations outside.
http://www.nextbike.de/en/locations/
zoom in on "red" locations like Köln or Karlsruhe.
Their sister company just created the first fully electric bike share programme in Exeter, UK https://www.co-bikes.co.uk/ I think this is the key thing bike share programmes are missing to get 'normal' people on board. Bicycles are great exercise, ebikes are simply the quickest and easiest way to travel around cities.
Bath Hacked were able to get hold of the NextBike Bath hire data for the scheme. Hire stations even on slight hills had significantly less usage. These bikes are heavy and people that rent them are not used to cycling. Lot of people taking bikes from the station on the hill, but very very few to the station. We also found a huge number of circular rides (back to the same station) i.e. tourists/locals using them for leisure rides.
The following video shows all the rides by hour of day rides are taken excluding circular hires. The station with very few rides is top right ("Sulis"). Note how there are a bunch of drunk students riding them back to halls around 3am in the morning ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AfocuESnSg
Even if your city is flat, electric bikes will make a big difference to uptake. The mistake people make is that the people that get the council to implement these schemes are usually keen cyclists and are 'ok' with a bit of strenous cycling. That is not 95% of your potential customer base.
PS: Would be good to see co-bike's hire data at some point and the impact elevation had on hires.
Bath Hacked were able to get hold of the NextBike Bath hire data for the scheme. Hire stations even on slight hills had significantly less usage. These bikes are heavy and people that rent them are not used to cycling. Lot of people taking bikes from the station on the hill, but very very few to the station. We also found a huge number of circular rides (back to the same station) i.e. tourists/locals using them for leisure rides.
The following video shows all the rides by hour of day rides are taken excluding circular hires. The station with very few rides is top right ("Sulis"). Note how there are a bunch of drunk students riding them back to halls around 3am in the morning ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AfocuESnSg
Even if your city is flat, electric bikes will make a big difference to uptake. The mistake people make is that the people that get the council to implement these schemes are usually keen cyclists and are 'ok' with a bit of strenous cycling. That is not 95% of your potential customer base.
PS: Would be good to see co-bike's hire data at some point and the impact elevation had on hires.
Dockless electrical seems like a drawback though, as chances become high your undocked ebike is now just a heavier regular bike.
Sorry I was just commenting on the need to appeal to 'normal' people who find the idea of cycling too much effort and too sweaty. Electric bikes need docking stations but usually a charge will last at least 40 miles. More than enough for a day.
Oh don't misunderstand me, I fully agree that an ebike sharing service would be significantly better (more convenient and comfortable and with larger appeal in both flat and non-flat cities), I'm just saying I don't see how to reconcile ebike services with dockless.
I would like to ask about what bothers me after trying such services in China (stationless bikes), in Shenzhen:
How will you address annoying parking?
I've noticed that people in China really quickly realised how free is "stationless" and you would see those bikes parked in middle of roads, in middle of walking paths, dumped in bushes - just because you can. At one point I saw some foreigner (so not to say only Chinese do it) arrive at Starbucks, stop his bike just in front, lock it and go inside.
I found the idea really great but that kind of overtaking of shared space is quite disturbing.
How will you address annoying parking?
I've noticed that people in China really quickly realised how free is "stationless" and you would see those bikes parked in middle of roads, in middle of walking paths, dumped in bushes - just because you can. At one point I saw some foreigner (so not to say only Chinese do it) arrive at Starbucks, stop his bike just in front, lock it and go inside.
I found the idea really great but that kind of overtaking of shared space is quite disturbing.
Spin's bikes will be parked neatly all across the city
Have they arranged appropriate parking places / staging points on private property? Or do they play to just lock bikes to sign poles and streetlamps?
Imagine the visual pollution of thousands of brightly-colored bikes strewn around (or, worse yet, taking up capacity in bike racks that then limits their use for individually-owned bikes).
Many cities have banned random newsracks on public thoroughfares for exactly this reason (including S.F.).
I thought of this too. A lot of the major SV players (like Airbnb, Uber) make their money based on the fact that they can charge less money because they aren't paying for the negative externalities of their product. As consumers, we're happy to pay less for hotels / taxis / bike sharing, these companies are happy to make profits. It's a win, win and hence these businesses thrive. However, everyone is participating in a short of cheat, because they aren't paying as much as they should.
The difficult part is that these business models seem to actually be really useful, but it would be nice if there was a happy medium between totally skipping out on paying for negative externalities and complete governmental regulation and the ensuing inefficiencies.
The difficult part is that these business models seem to actually be really useful, but it would be nice if there was a happy medium between totally skipping out on paying for negative externalities and complete governmental regulation and the ensuing inefficiencies.
Bicycles are beautiful objects. The appearance of most cities would be vastly improved by a generous salting of colorful bikes.
Until there are too many.
Is this a slippery-slope argument? "You might not mind five bikes parked on your block; what about a THOUSAND?" Five shared bikes on a block would probably remove at least a couple of automobiles from the block, on average, so I'm all for it! Presumably cars would disappear entirely well before we got to a thousand shared bikes, so if we stopped then we'd be fine...
Five is ok, if there's a place meant to be the bike parking place.
If not, that's five bikes locked up to poles and street signals. What about a hundred?
If not, that's five bikes locked up to poles and street signals. What about a hundred?
Does the block have 500 shared-bike riders present at any particular time? Conservatively assuming that the average rider is riding an hour a day (which would be 24:1), a 5:1 riders to bikes ratio is also a conservative assumption. If there are that many riders, then by all means it's reasonable to have 100 bikes present as well. If there aren't enough poles and racks, the bike company or the city can plant some more. It still won't cost near as much as maintaining the streets.
Your bikes are going to be stolen, stripped, and scrapped.
Though I don't agree with how you're saying what you're saying, I am curious how this issue is planning to be addressed.
As a SF resident, let's say I took a bike home to hayes valley. I'd say there's a 90% chance your bike will get stripped/stolen each night (assuming it's locked well with a good lock) in this area. Would I be liable for this as a user?
Also I can't imagine this would be profitable if there isn't a revolutionary change in theft-prevention. Perhaps it's the GPS component will help discourage thieves?
As a SF resident, let's say I took a bike home to hayes valley. I'd say there's a 90% chance your bike will get stripped/stolen each night (assuming it's locked well with a good lock) in this area. Would I be liable for this as a user?
Also I can't imagine this would be profitable if there isn't a revolutionary change in theft-prevention. Perhaps it's the GPS component will help discourage thieves?
Gps helps and then I think its mostly down to design. The lock has to be so integrated that breaking it leaves the bike unusable, and wheels, saddles etc has to be non-standard so no one could use or sell a wheel or other part from one of the bikes.
Also the bikes have to be recognizable in geometry so that it's very obvious to any buyer if a re-painted stolen one is sold.
Stealing and stripping bikes has only 4 reasons 1) selling it 2) selling parts 3) transportation 4) vandalism.
Vandalism is almost impossible to prevent. The other 3 should be preventable by good (and well-known) design. For the bikes to be well known enough you need a large exposure. You can't have just e.g 1000 bikes in SF.
Stealing and stripping bikes has only 4 reasons 1) selling it 2) selling parts 3) transportation 4) vandalism.
Vandalism is almost impossible to prevent. The other 3 should be preventable by good (and well-known) design. For the bikes to be well known enough you need a large exposure. You can't have just e.g 1000 bikes in SF.
Maybe somebody could make a business out of bicycle parking.
Why is crime so horrible in SF?
What do you mean? We don't have any criminals here, we only have "victims" who are undereducated and "rebalancing privilege" when they sell your $1,000 bike for $50 bucks so they can buy a handle.
Hypothetical pie-in-the-sky thinking (not saying anyone is doing anything this crazy today):
You park your bike and use your phone to "lock it".
Bike locks-in its GPS location. Any attempts to move it will trigger multiple wide-angle/fisheye cameras to start recording and streaming to your phone (also recorded).
Remotely, with your phone, you review the footage. At your command, the bike can call the police to report a theft in progress, and reports its location as quickly as possible in street address/intersection terms.
With another command, built-in loud-speaker also warns passersby that a theft is in progress. The pleasant voice also encourages them to provide additional video coverage of the thief, and (at the user's option) may promise a reward. If the theft is thwarted, then the bike-savoir is can be rewarded (paypal, bitcoin, whatever) by the bike owner, who has seen the whole thing happen on camera, and the bike can use bluetooth/p2p to verify the that the paypal/bitcoin recipient is indeed the person you just saw save your bike.
More fun: at your command, the bike can spray a thick mist of semi-permanent/eventually-washable paint around itself; the exact color shade of the paint spray would always be slightly different in every canister, so one could precisely tie a bike to its thief, if they were perchance apprehended before the getting out of their paint-soiled clothes.
Even more fun: Any/all of these features could also be configured to trigger without any user intervention. For example, if (while locked) the bike detects removal of parts like the seat, wheels, etc., I want it to call the police and emit the paint spray.
At that point, if the bikes were clearly marked as having such technology, and were not super-fancy carbon-fiber bikes but were basic, decent, rideable bikes, then you have what "the club" effect brings to cars -- it becomes obvious that they are not worth the effort, and thieving sticks to non-hardened bikes.
You then get a ratchet-effect, like in a neighborhood with some crime, as soon as one house gets bars on the windows, it won't be long before the whole block does. Get ready for GPS and these kinds of features in every bike. It could be fun, hopefully you can run Linux on these bikes :)
You park your bike and use your phone to "lock it".
Bike locks-in its GPS location. Any attempts to move it will trigger multiple wide-angle/fisheye cameras to start recording and streaming to your phone (also recorded).
Remotely, with your phone, you review the footage. At your command, the bike can call the police to report a theft in progress, and reports its location as quickly as possible in street address/intersection terms.
With another command, built-in loud-speaker also warns passersby that a theft is in progress. The pleasant voice also encourages them to provide additional video coverage of the thief, and (at the user's option) may promise a reward. If the theft is thwarted, then the bike-savoir is can be rewarded (paypal, bitcoin, whatever) by the bike owner, who has seen the whole thing happen on camera, and the bike can use bluetooth/p2p to verify the that the paypal/bitcoin recipient is indeed the person you just saw save your bike.
More fun: at your command, the bike can spray a thick mist of semi-permanent/eventually-washable paint around itself; the exact color shade of the paint spray would always be slightly different in every canister, so one could precisely tie a bike to its thief, if they were perchance apprehended before the getting out of their paint-soiled clothes.
Even more fun: Any/all of these features could also be configured to trigger without any user intervention. For example, if (while locked) the bike detects removal of parts like the seat, wheels, etc., I want it to call the police and emit the paint spray.
At that point, if the bikes were clearly marked as having such technology, and were not super-fancy carbon-fiber bikes but were basic, decent, rideable bikes, then you have what "the club" effect brings to cars -- it becomes obvious that they are not worth the effort, and thieving sticks to non-hardened bikes.
You then get a ratchet-effect, like in a neighborhood with some crime, as soon as one house gets bars on the windows, it won't be long before the whole block does. Get ready for GPS and these kinds of features in every bike. It could be fun, hopefully you can run Linux on these bikes :)
This is all predicated on the fact that police and passersby care about a bike being stolen. My experience in San Francisco has shown this to not be true.
This is why my approach is multi-pronged. Even if no bystanders intervene, you still have to ask:
* What kind of thief wants their theft to be video recorded?
* What kind of thief wants a loudspeaker blaring to everyone about their thievery?
* What kind of thief wants to risk getting covered in paint?
You must not live in San Francisco.
Bike 'chop shops' operate in the open, disassembling stolen bikes outside the many tents that line the streets in the Mission district. Here's a good article on the problem: http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/fighting-sfs-mob...
Thieves will use 'angle grinders' to cut bike locks in broad daylight, on busy streets. Here's an example video: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/4fcy9y/sparks...
These bikes have an uphill battle before they will survive unmolested in San Francisco, particularly the SOMA/Mission area. I wish them luck!
Bike 'chop shops' operate in the open, disassembling stolen bikes outside the many tents that line the streets in the Mission district. Here's a good article on the problem: http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/fighting-sfs-mob...
Thieves will use 'angle grinders' to cut bike locks in broad daylight, on busy streets. Here's an example video: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/4fcy9y/sparks...
These bikes have an uphill battle before they will survive unmolested in San Francisco, particularly the SOMA/Mission area. I wish them luck!
I have lived in SF, and I have worked in SF for years, and I most recently had a bike stolen last year, in FiDi, in broad-daylight. I know what it's like.
Thieves are smart and opportunistic. They're less inclined to steal a bike if they know it is being tracked. SFPD in fact have used "bait bikes" on occasion.
Go ahead and keep your attitude of smug resignation, that's entirely your right. I refuse to believe that nothing can be done to combat this rampant problem!
Thieves are smart and opportunistic. They're less inclined to steal a bike if they know it is being tracked. SFPD in fact have used "bait bikes" on occasion.
Go ahead and keep your attitude of smug resignation, that's entirely your right. I refuse to believe that nothing can be done to combat this rampant problem!
I would venture to guess that once a few people are inadvertently sprayed by paint while walking to work in the morning, destroying the bikes in public will be applauded.
It is pretty silly to basically leave money laying on the ground with an alarm that calls police when someone takes it.
A better approach would be to have locks which open for the users. If the user does not lock up the bike and it is stolen, bam, they get hit with the $1500+ fee to replace the bike just like the existing bike sharing systems.
Locked bikes can still be stolen, but it is a giant leap ahead of just leaving them laying around.
A better approach would be to have locks which open for the users. If the user does not lock up the bike and it is stolen, bam, they get hit with the $1500+ fee to replace the bike just like the existing bike sharing systems.
Locked bikes can still be stolen, but it is a giant leap ahead of just leaving them laying around.
you forgot to mention that the would-be thief is electrocuted by the bike and a net shoots out of the bike and traps him until the police arrives :)
That's only in South Africa
This is awesome. :)
This will make for good entertainment on windy days.
That's what everyone said about Citibike, but they seem to be doing fine. The biggest problem was their poor IT system which they had to replace.
Yup, over the past few years, station-based bikeshares like Citibike have done a great job at showing the bikes as a public resource can work, and help develop biking into a legitimate commute option.
This is a tough comparison since, as far as I can tell, you park the bike anywhere. So there is no incentive like most city bike sharing systems to get it to a kiosk that acts as a big lock. I'm done with my ride, I get off, stop my ride on my phone, and walk away leaving the bike where it is...
While the bike is docked, you can still trash the bike. People aren't doing that though, which is what's surprising. (Occasionally some stickers turn up. But surprisingly infrequently.)
In the Bay, absolutely. Almost every bike we had locked in public places for Spokefly had parts stolen.
As another user mentioned, this idea (stationless bike share/rental) has been white-hot in China since the past summer, with a lot of extreme incidents occurring in the past couple months. The article doesn't exaggerate about 10ft tall piles of bicycles. Vandalism is a major part of the competition between companies as well--it is a regular sight (in Shenzhen) to see bikes with spray paint over QR codes, falsely reported damage, missing seats, etc.
Overall, the system works extremely well and is super convenient, but Shenzhen has very good public transportation to begin with and most of the sidewalks in the city are very wide compared to those in San Francisco. Those are two of the key things that have enabled this type of service to emerge and take off in China--it's really just solving a "last-mile" problem of getting to a point that's too far from a metro station to comfortably walk but not far enough to take a cab.
Overall, the system works extremely well and is super convenient, but Shenzhen has very good public transportation to begin with and most of the sidewalks in the city are very wide compared to those in San Francisco. Those are two of the key things that have enabled this type of service to emerge and take off in China--it's really just solving a "last-mile" problem of getting to a point that's too far from a metro station to comfortably walk but not far enough to take a cab.
How is this better than docking stations?
I tried bike sharing and gave it up because the bikes were poorly maintained and replaced with cheaper bikes (thanks Citibike). Bikes fail, sometimes missing brakes, other times a flat tire.
Why are docking stations important? Because a couple times a week I notice the company pull up with a trailer and maintain the bikes. They swap out the broken ones and fill the stations.
Is Spin going to drive around the city tracking individual bikes to replace them?
I tried bike sharing and gave it up because the bikes were poorly maintained and replaced with cheaper bikes (thanks Citibike). Bikes fail, sometimes missing brakes, other times a flat tire.
Why are docking stations important? Because a couple times a week I notice the company pull up with a trailer and maintain the bikes. They swap out the broken ones and fill the stations.
Is Spin going to drive around the city tracking individual bikes to replace them?
For all their advantages, docking stations are hard to install (on whose land? power? plus it's another expense), and they're another piece of equipment to maintain. As for the tracking: the Czech bike-sharing ReKola did just that: has people riding around the city when a bike is reported as non-functional.
I've been Citibiking since nearly the start and I prefer the new models.
Sometimes the brakes are bad, true, but I never pick one with a flat tire (of course checking before I take it out) and I have to say I have gotten tremendous utility from my membership. Sucks to see someone who didn't like it.
I think your last point is pretty devastating and I don't see dockless bike sharing ever reaching the grand scale of something like Citibike.
Sometimes the brakes are bad, true, but I never pick one with a flat tire (of course checking before I take it out) and I have to say I have gotten tremendous utility from my membership. Sucks to see someone who didn't like it.
I think your last point is pretty devastating and I don't see dockless bike sharing ever reaching the grand scale of something like Citibike.
The biggest source of conflict with Citibike is that they removed the feature to report bikes as broken. So they take twice as long to be replaced.
Since then I've moved to a position where it's cheaper to have my own bike or walk.
Since then I've moved to a position where it's cheaper to have my own bike or walk.
I'm pretty poor but I've found having a bike AND Citibike is the real NYC dream, worth every penny.
Perhaps if a bike is unused for a long time, or repeatedly gets returned immediately after borrowing it, they assume it's broken and pull it out for servicing. Not having docks, they wouldn't need to put the replacement bikes back at the same location or time and that could be done in cheaper batches.
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Has worked in Germany for years. Sponsored by Deutsche Bahn.
More details?
The DB has a bike-sharing offer (Call-a-Bike) as well as a car sharing offer (Flinkster). Call-a-Bike used to be free-floating in a lot of locations, among them Cologne and Berlin, but that changed to a station/dock based system a few years ago. It's supposed to be changing back to free-floating again, at least in Berlin.
The bikes all have a distinct build and color and a Box with a simple touch display and a lock. Even before smartphones you could just text a number and it would send an unlock code. To drop the bike off you'd lock it and call an automated system to give it the displayed confirmation code. That was actually pretty nifty, I liked and used it a lot.
The CCC did a tear down of one of the bikes https://www.ccc.de/en/hackabike
The bikes all have a distinct build and color and a Box with a simple touch display and a lock. Even before smartphones you could just text a number and it would send an unlock code. To drop the bike off you'd lock it and call an automated system to give it the displayed confirmation code. That was actually pretty nifty, I liked and used it a lot.
The CCC did a tear down of one of the bikes https://www.ccc.de/en/hackabike
Definitely free-floating over here in Munich.
We tried something similar a few years ago with Spokefly. We didn't own the bikes, anyone with an extra bike could participate, and we didn't put GPS on them. Users checked bikes in and out with their phone's GPS. There were numerous problems and the company failed.
The market for our service wasn't big enough. If you owned the bikes I think it would work better since sizes are consistent, they're easier to brand, etc. That said it's really hard to make money on it when you're competing with publicly subsidized bike shares and VC subsidized ride shares.
Phones still don't work well. It was too easy for the GPS location to be wrong or for users to have phone connectivity problems, causing a lot of frustration. Our service was popular at big events where traffic was bad (eg SXSW) but that's when cell service is the worst. If you rely on phones your users will have problems.
The market for our service wasn't big enough. If you owned the bikes I think it would work better since sizes are consistent, they're easier to brand, etc. That said it's really hard to make money on it when you're competing with publicly subsidized bike shares and VC subsidized ride shares.
Phones still don't work well. It was too easy for the GPS location to be wrong or for users to have phone connectivity problems, causing a lot of frustration. Our service was popular at big events where traffic was bad (eg SXSW) but that's when cell service is the worst. If you rely on phones your users will have problems.
"In China, kiosk-free bikeshare programs have proven almost as problematic as they have popular. Riders have parked bikes in fire lanes..."
I've lived in China (Beijing and Shanghai) for 6+ years, and have never seen a fire lane.
"And in some cases, towering piles of bikes have cause Chinese cities major headache as they’ve blocked pedestrians, created an eyesore and a possible safety hazard. (Imagine a bike falling from a ten-foot high pile, and landing on your head?)"
What are they talking about? Are they suggesting that riders are parking bikes on top of each other? How did the last rider place their bike on the top of a "ten-foot high pile"? I haven't seen anyone tall enough to do that, in China or anywhere else.
This whole paragraph seems totally made up.
I've lived in China (Beijing and Shanghai) for 6+ years, and have never seen a fire lane.
"And in some cases, towering piles of bikes have cause Chinese cities major headache as they’ve blocked pedestrians, created an eyesore and a possible safety hazard. (Imagine a bike falling from a ten-foot high pile, and landing on your head?)"
What are they talking about? Are they suggesting that riders are parking bikes on top of each other? How did the last rider place their bike on the top of a "ten-foot high pile"? I haven't seen anyone tall enough to do that, in China or anywhere else.
This whole paragraph seems totally made up.
Hamburg, Germany has an interesting bike program where there are docks but you can also lock the bike up using a digital lock on the back wheel so if you need to stop somewhere and there isn't a dock close by or you just don't feel like returning it yet you can lock it up. I think this is a great option.
I wonder if cities will allow this competition among bike sharing. Some of these bike programs have big corporate sponsors and the cynical side of me imagines they might have an influence on whether cities allow new entrants to the market.
I wonder if cities will allow this competition among bike sharing. Some of these bike programs have big corporate sponsors and the cynical side of me imagines they might have an influence on whether cities allow new entrants to the market.
"The MTC previously struck an exclusive agreement with Motivate and Ford ... Disruptors who just enter the market without city approval would potentially violate that agreement."
How could 'Disruptors' violate an agreement to which they're not a party?
How could 'Disruptors' violate an agreement to which they're not a party?
San Francisco seems like a terrible place to open up anything to do with bicycles. Everyone will just ride down the hill, park the bike, and get an uber later. Some poor asshole will have to take them all back up.
Check out https://www.rekola.cz/en - running on the same principle since 2014, might have some ideas ;)
This is a fantastic idea! Can't wait for it to go live :)
Thanks for your support! Which city are you in? (And do sign up at https://spin.pm)
this looks amazing!
We got a prototype working with a custom Android device with touch, 3g, GPS, and built in credit card swiper in Lansing MI, but ultimately we b it off more than we could chew. The team collapsed in mid 2015, and the company was just recently completely shuttered. It's validating to see a more skilled team put together a solid product, but damn it would have been fun to be that team haha.
Best of luck!