Tesla Plans on Staying Open Despite Shelter in Place(sfgate.com)
sfgate.com
Tesla Plans on Staying Open Despite Shelter in Place
https://www.sfgate.com/cnet/article/Tesla-plant-to-reportedly-stay-open-despite-15136428.php
52 comments
If you shut down Jimmy's Bar and Grill for 1 month, it can be reopened 1 month later. The only thing you would need for that is some money (a loan, possibly) and food.
If you shut down a factory, this affects every single company that sells them parts down the production chain and everyone who buys factory's product up the production chain. You also affect every single business that services those factories, including equipment manufacturers, maintenance and delivery. You also affect other customers of all those companies if loss of part of their business forces them to shut down.
Meanwhile, you're not producing parts and you're not maintaining equipment. So when the virus is over, there is no clear path to restart the whole thing.
If you shut down a factory, this affects every single company that sells them parts down the production chain and everyone who buys factory's product up the production chain. You also affect every single business that services those factories, including equipment manufacturers, maintenance and delivery. You also affect other customers of all those companies if loss of part of their business forces them to shut down.
Meanwhile, you're not producing parts and you're not maintaining equipment. So when the virus is over, there is no clear path to restart the whole thing.
"If you shut down Jimmy's Bar and Grill for 1 month, it can be reopened 1 month later."
Actually, it can't. To reopen, it will have to replace spoiled supplies and hire new employees. And that is assuming Jimmy hasn't gone bankrupt in the meantime, which is hardly out of the question.
If you shut down every bar and grill in the city, you affect every distributor and supplier, including equipment manufacturers, maintenance, and delivery, and all of their other customers if they are forced out of business.
Yes, the only thing you would need for any of this is some money, but that's true for everything.
Actually, it can't. To reopen, it will have to replace spoiled supplies and hire new employees. And that is assuming Jimmy hasn't gone bankrupt in the meantime, which is hardly out of the question.
If you shut down every bar and grill in the city, you affect every distributor and supplier, including equipment manufacturers, maintenance, and delivery, and all of their other customers if they are forced out of business.
Yes, the only thing you would need for any of this is some money, but that's true for everything.
Yet Volkswagen is doing it: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/business/volkswagen-plants-eu....
I don't think "it would be complex" is a reasonable excuse.
I don't think "it would be complex" is a reasonable excuse.
That is the same for almost every business!
You need food, sure, but Jimmy's Bar and Grill isn't the only place you can get that food.
It could be argued that you need a personal car. If your car breaks down, you need parts to be able to repair that car.
The consequences of Jimmy's Bar and Grill being closed is that you just go somewhere else for food. The consequences of being unable to fix your personal transportation means you lose a lot of freedom to provide for yourself.
Imagine an old person whose car breaks down today. Is it essential for them to be able to repair it (so they have a means to buy food, get to the doctor, etc), or are they going to be able to walk to the grocer, ask friends/family to bring them food, break a retirement budget on repeated delivery, etc?
It could be argued that you need a personal car. If your car breaks down, you need parts to be able to repair that car.
The consequences of Jimmy's Bar and Grill being closed is that you just go somewhere else for food. The consequences of being unable to fix your personal transportation means you lose a lot of freedom to provide for yourself.
Imagine an old person whose car breaks down today. Is it essential for them to be able to repair it (so they have a means to buy food, get to the doctor, etc), or are they going to be able to walk to the grocer, ask friends/family to bring them food, break a retirement budget on repeated delivery, etc?
Depending on your definition of old, it might actually be a lot safer for the person to use a ride share than drive themselves.
> If Tesla is deemed an essential business, why is Jimmy's Bar and Grill being forced to close?
According to this document [1] (found via reddit comment here [2]), I found Alameda County's list of essential businesses. Tesla is not definitely in any of these groups, but one could easily argue it should be classified in Category XV (supporting essential business Category VI). "Jimmy's Bar and Grill" would definitely fit in Category XIII, required to close except for the production of takeout and pickup.
i. Healthcare Operations and Essential Infrastructure;
ii. Grocery stores, certified farmers’ markets, farm and produce stands, supermarkets, food banks, convenience stores, and other establishments engaged in the retail sale of canned food, dry goods, fresh fruits and vegetables, pet supply, fresh meats, fish, and poultry, and any other household consumer products (such as cleaning and personal care products). This includes stores that sell groceries and also sell other nongrocery products, and products necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences;
iii. Food cultivation, including farming, livestock, and fishing;
iv. Businesses that provide food, shelter, and social services, and other necessities of life for economically disadvantaged or otherwise needy individuals;
v. Newspapers, television, radio, and other media services;
vi. Gas stations and auto-supply, auto-repair, and related facilities;
vii. Banks and related financial institutions;
viii. Hardware stores;
ix. Plumbers, electricians, exterminators, and other service providers who provide services that are necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences, Essential Activities, and Essential Businesses;
x. Businesses providing mailing and shipping services, including post office boxes;
xi. Educational institutions—including public and private K-12 schools, colleges, and universities—for purposes of facilitating distance learning or performing essential functions, provided that social distancing of six-feet per person is maintained to the greatest extent possible;
xii. Laundromats, drycleaners, and laundry service providers;
xiii. Restaurants and other facilities that prepare and serve food, but only for delivery or carry out. Schools and other entities that typically provide free food services to students or members of the public may continue to do so under this Order on the condition that the food is provided to students or members of the public on a pick-up and take-away basis only. Schools and other entities that provide food services under this exemption shall not permit the food to be eaten at the site where it is provided, or at any other gathering site;
xiv. Businesses that supply products needed for people to work from home;
xv. Businesses that supply other essential businesses with the support or supplies necessary to operate;
xvi. Businesses that ship or deliver groceries, food, goods or services directly to residences;
xvii. Airlines, taxis, and other private transportation providers providing transportation services necessary for Essential Activities and other purposes expressly authorized in this Order;
xviii. Home-based care for seniors, adults, or children;
xix. Residential facilities and shelters for seniors, adults, and children;
xx. Professional services, such as legal or accounting services, when necessary to assist in compliance with legally mandated activities;
xxi. Childcare facilities providing services that enable employees exempted in this Order to work as permitted. To the extent possible, childcare facilities must operate under the following mandatory conditions: 1. Childcare must be carried out in stable groups of 12 or fewer (“stable” means that the same 12 or fewer children are in the same group each day). 2. Children shall not change from one group to another. 3. If more than one group of children is cared for at one facility, each group shall be in a separate room. Groups shall not mix with each other. 4. Childcare providers shall remain solely with one group of children
[1] http://acgov.org/documents/Final-Order-to-Shelter-In-Place.p...
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/fk05w9/stay_ho...
According to this document [1] (found via reddit comment here [2]), I found Alameda County's list of essential businesses. Tesla is not definitely in any of these groups, but one could easily argue it should be classified in Category XV (supporting essential business Category VI). "Jimmy's Bar and Grill" would definitely fit in Category XIII, required to close except for the production of takeout and pickup.
i. Healthcare Operations and Essential Infrastructure;
ii. Grocery stores, certified farmers’ markets, farm and produce stands, supermarkets, food banks, convenience stores, and other establishments engaged in the retail sale of canned food, dry goods, fresh fruits and vegetables, pet supply, fresh meats, fish, and poultry, and any other household consumer products (such as cleaning and personal care products). This includes stores that sell groceries and also sell other nongrocery products, and products necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences;
iii. Food cultivation, including farming, livestock, and fishing;
iv. Businesses that provide food, shelter, and social services, and other necessities of life for economically disadvantaged or otherwise needy individuals;
v. Newspapers, television, radio, and other media services;
vi. Gas stations and auto-supply, auto-repair, and related facilities;
vii. Banks and related financial institutions;
viii. Hardware stores;
ix. Plumbers, electricians, exterminators, and other service providers who provide services that are necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences, Essential Activities, and Essential Businesses;
x. Businesses providing mailing and shipping services, including post office boxes;
xi. Educational institutions—including public and private K-12 schools, colleges, and universities—for purposes of facilitating distance learning or performing essential functions, provided that social distancing of six-feet per person is maintained to the greatest extent possible;
xii. Laundromats, drycleaners, and laundry service providers;
xiii. Restaurants and other facilities that prepare and serve food, but only for delivery or carry out. Schools and other entities that typically provide free food services to students or members of the public may continue to do so under this Order on the condition that the food is provided to students or members of the public on a pick-up and take-away basis only. Schools and other entities that provide food services under this exemption shall not permit the food to be eaten at the site where it is provided, or at any other gathering site;
xiv. Businesses that supply products needed for people to work from home;
xv. Businesses that supply other essential businesses with the support or supplies necessary to operate;
xvi. Businesses that ship or deliver groceries, food, goods or services directly to residences;
xvii. Airlines, taxis, and other private transportation providers providing transportation services necessary for Essential Activities and other purposes expressly authorized in this Order;
xviii. Home-based care for seniors, adults, or children;
xix. Residential facilities and shelters for seniors, adults, and children;
xx. Professional services, such as legal or accounting services, when necessary to assist in compliance with legally mandated activities;
xxi. Childcare facilities providing services that enable employees exempted in this Order to work as permitted. To the extent possible, childcare facilities must operate under the following mandatory conditions: 1. Childcare must be carried out in stable groups of 12 or fewer (“stable” means that the same 12 or fewer children are in the same group each day). 2. Children shall not change from one group to another. 3. If more than one group of children is cared for at one facility, each group shall be in a separate room. Groups shall not mix with each other. 4. Childcare providers shall remain solely with one group of children
[1] http://acgov.org/documents/Final-Order-to-Shelter-In-Place.p...
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/fk05w9/stay_ho...
> vi. Gas stations and auto-supply, auto-repair, and related facilities;
Isn't it auto supply or related?
Isn't it auto supply or related?
I think that is intended to mean spare parts suppliers (including tyres), so auto repair shops can continue to maintain vehicles.
>IMHO this is a prime example of recklessly corrupt government conduct.
I don't often jump to that sort of language, but I'm 100% with you. In what world is Tesla an essential business, other than its size, public image, and political clout?
What a mess.
I don't often jump to that sort of language, but I'm 100% with you. In what world is Tesla an essential business, other than its size, public image, and political clout?
What a mess.
[deleted]
From an article written 4 days ago:
Elon Musk sent a memo to SpaceX employees on Friday underplaying the dangers of COVID-19, the illness caused by the novel coronavirus, which is now considered a pandemic, according to a report from BuzzFeed News.
Musk's email, sent earlier today, told employees of the space transport company that they were far more likely to die from a car crash than COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus. He also said that, based on the evidence he had seen about COVID-19, he doesn't think it's "within the top 100 health risks in the United States."
The email follows a tweet Musk sent last week saying "the coronavirus panic is dumb."
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/13/21179291/elon-musk-corona...
Elon Musk sent a memo to SpaceX employees on Friday underplaying the dangers of COVID-19, the illness caused by the novel coronavirus, which is now considered a pandemic, according to a report from BuzzFeed News.
Musk's email, sent earlier today, told employees of the space transport company that they were far more likely to die from a car crash than COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus. He also said that, based on the evidence he had seen about COVID-19, he doesn't think it's "within the top 100 health risks in the United States."
The email follows a tweet Musk sent last week saying "the coronavirus panic is dumb."
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/13/21179291/elon-musk-corona...
Interesting way to spin that: "CEO of a car company says cars are more likely to kill you than this pandemic."
I think he's wrong, and it's got to be hyperbole to say "not within the top 100 health risks" given the 15th place per the CDC was responsible for 20K deaths last year[0]. Actually, if you figure that the next 85 causes all split the rest of the deaths evenly (not reasonable, but puts an absolute upper bound on the 100th cause's mortality) they would clock in at ~6600 deaths each.
Soooo... I dunno. I'm not exactly surprised Elon seems straight up wrong about this, and that it sounds like he's prioritizing keeping SpaceX and Tesla at full operations over the health of so many people.
0: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf Table B
I think he's wrong, and it's got to be hyperbole to say "not within the top 100 health risks" given the 15th place per the CDC was responsible for 20K deaths last year[0]. Actually, if you figure that the next 85 causes all split the rest of the deaths evenly (not reasonable, but puts an absolute upper bound on the 100th cause's mortality) they would clock in at ~6600 deaths each.
Soooo... I dunno. I'm not exactly surprised Elon seems straight up wrong about this, and that it sounds like he's prioritizing keeping SpaceX and Tesla at full operations over the health of so many people.
0: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf Table B
Tesla and SpaceX are financially designed to run so hot that if they shut down for half a year they might not come back. This also applies to a lot of other businesses.
Considering how much more likely you are to die from a car crash when the hospitals are saturated with covid-19 patients, he's not wrong.
Factories like this do seem that they might be better suited for operating during semi-lockdown conditions than e.g. offices. Large, ventilated spaces, probably more separation between employees, etc. If I were looking at a stepped reduction in lockdown conditions for businesses, I'd look at operations like this first.
That said, I think the prudent thing right now is a complete shutdown of non-essential (and it's nonsense to say these factories are "essential") businesses until we see a blunting of the infection curve. When we've measured an effective baseline response to full lockdown conditions, then we can start thinking about what to bring back online.
That said, I think the prudent thing right now is a complete shutdown of non-essential (and it's nonsense to say these factories are "essential") businesses until we see a blunting of the infection curve. When we've measured an effective baseline response to full lockdown conditions, then we can start thinking about what to bring back online.
Depends a lot on how people get to that factory. If they take public transport I think you're exposing a lot of people to a lot of contact.
even worse, Tesla buses them there, look at the scene this morning: https://twitter.com/russ1mitchell/status/1239976885867573249...
Transportation is a whole other problem, but with fewer people riding and higher-risk people staying home for a longer period, it seems that the actual risk to human life can be reduced.
I really believe that at some point long before this is over we are going to have to start exposing certain people to some quantifiably small risk, even knowing that they may spread it to others. The alternative (total economic shutdown for 12-18 months) really just isn't feasible. We are in for harm no matter what, but at some point we will have to pick our poison.
Mortality rate in a situation without ICU care shortage is apparently around 1%, and that will likely go down even further as we get better at treating it. If it's primarily younger people being exposed, that number shrinks by an order of magnitude or more. Widespread acquired immunity ought to reduce its ability to spread, assuming that's how it works (I believe the consensus is that yes, this is likely). Targeted contact tracing within high-risk communities can be used to manage that risk, once things are better understood. So really I think things are not as dire as they may appear, as long as we take decisive action now and only proceed when the situation is stable and we have data in hand.
We will probably be overwhelmed to some degree within the next few weeks, but people should refrain from panicking and keep their eyes on the ball. If we can just manage to come up for air after the initial wave, I think chances are we can get through it without a total collapse.
I really believe that at some point long before this is over we are going to have to start exposing certain people to some quantifiably small risk, even knowing that they may spread it to others. The alternative (total economic shutdown for 12-18 months) really just isn't feasible. We are in for harm no matter what, but at some point we will have to pick our poison.
Mortality rate in a situation without ICU care shortage is apparently around 1%, and that will likely go down even further as we get better at treating it. If it's primarily younger people being exposed, that number shrinks by an order of magnitude or more. Widespread acquired immunity ought to reduce its ability to spread, assuming that's how it works (I believe the consensus is that yes, this is likely). Targeted contact tracing within high-risk communities can be used to manage that risk, once things are better understood. So really I think things are not as dire as they may appear, as long as we take decisive action now and only proceed when the situation is stable and we have data in hand.
We will probably be overwhelmed to some degree within the next few weeks, but people should refrain from panicking and keep their eyes on the ball. If we can just manage to come up for air after the initial wave, I think chances are we can get through it without a total collapse.
About the most bullshit "essential business" call I've seen.
It depends on what they are making. If they are still manufacturing cars, yeah, thats bullshit. If they are keeping a light staff to manufacture replacement parts so that their current fleet can be prepared, that's more understandable.
IF they are making life saving medical supplies, then it's valid. Preparing for future sales is not an "essential business".
I think they meant 'so the current fleet can be repaired'. Which has some degree of criticality; although, my understanding is Tesla repair was already a lengthy waiting process; if you had a critical need for transportation, it would be wise to have a vehicle with a more ready supply of parts than a Tesla.
Car repairs can end up being pretty essential. Any doctor with a Tesla might need to get to work.
The United Auto Workers is demanding a 2-week shutdown of auto plants in Detroit. Meeting with the bosses at 6 PM today in Detroit.
Utterly shameless. I think Silicon Valley would do well to stop glorifying hyper aggression as a way of business and a way of life.
I sympathize. Shelter in place is a death warrant for many. Businesses can't always be paused. They say 2 weeks, but this will be months. This isn't a Hollywood film where we must do whatever we can, no matter the cost.
What we need are improvements on existing models [1] that take into account cost/benefit of the spread among non-vulnerable. If the vulnerable are locked down, there may be benefits from the increase in immunity. For instance, if I got infected now, I could go help my mother in a month. Otherwise, it could literally be years before it would be safe to see her.
[1] https://colab.sandbox.google.com/drive/1HDYojyKvxHtKzkViorO-...
What we need are improvements on existing models [1] that take into account cost/benefit of the spread among non-vulnerable. If the vulnerable are locked down, there may be benefits from the increase in immunity. For instance, if I got infected now, I could go help my mother in a month. Otherwise, it could literally be years before it would be safe to see her.
[1] https://colab.sandbox.google.com/drive/1HDYojyKvxHtKzkViorO-...
Would you buy a car from this man? Not me. I was first in line with a deposit on the day after Musk announced the Model 3. After I came to my senses, I asked for my deposit back and sold my Tesla stock.
I'm sure your deposit made a huge dent in sales. Good job.
Just to clarify, I have nothing against Tesla and I wish them success. But as long as Musk is in charge, I will stay away from Tesla and their products. Musk is a brilliant entrepreneur and salesman, but he is a terrible CEO. The best thing the Tesla board could do is to throw him out.
[deleted]
I, for one, welcome our new corporate overlord.
the hype machine must continue! model y is now released! bounce that stock value back up!
mnm1(1)
Tesla has experience with effective coronavirus prevention measures due to its experience in China: https://insideevs.com/news/404105/tesla-anti-coronavirus-gig...
IMO they should still shut down to implement these measures and figure out safe employee transport.
IMO they should still shut down to implement these measures and figure out safe employee transport.
That's a slippery slope - are we going to go into each business and allow them to be open if they have "effective prevention measures in place"?
Really, this is just "Tesla has more clout in Alameda than most other businesses".
Really, this is just "Tesla has more clout in Alameda than most other businesses".
Actually, yes, we should. This is going to last literally months, and so we must find out how to operate under these conditions.
Shutting down literally everything but grocery stores for months will not only kill the economy, it will kill people.
Shutting down literally everything but grocery stores for months will not only kill the economy, it will kill people.
Agreed, however:
Who should be the ones to make those decisions?
a) Public health officials, or
b) Tesla saying "We're safe. Change my mind." and opening regardless?
Who should be the ones to make those decisions?
a) Public health officials, or
b) Tesla saying "We're safe. Change my mind." and opening regardless?
a, City and Public Heath Officials. The same ones that greenlighted Tesla Fremont staying open.
EDIT: For the record, I think Tesla should be a LOT more aggressive in applying Gigafactory China COVID-19 countermeasures to US operations, and the city ought to pressure them on this.
EDIT: For the record, I think Tesla should be a LOT more aggressive in applying Gigafactory China COVID-19 countermeasures to US operations, and the city ought to pressure them on this.
If Tesla is deemed an essential business, why is Jimmy's Bar and Grill being forced to close? IMHO this is a prime example of recklessly corrupt government conduct.