Tell HN: Getting Ready for Unemployment
136 comments
Men, I created this account only because I fill that I should answer you.
14 months ago I took the biggest risk in my life so far (I'm 30), I sold everything that I have in Argentina and moved to Spain where I don't know anybody and no connections with anyone.
The first 6 months where horrible, I was reasearching all the pros and cons of different ways of stop existing because of exactly the same reasons that you have. I was refreshing the jobs listings more than 10 times a day in the 4 main webpages without success.
Of the few things that kept me alive was all the problems that I was going to generate because of the "easy way out" (opposite of easy in reality), and the fact that I still have people that I love, although they live 12k km away and is not a cheap fly either (for Argentinians).
The thing is that after hitting the wall over and over again I managed to get a job not related to what I was looking for but it was a job. Shitty pay,shitty shifts, but with good people mostly. I was working at the Madrid airport.
That job gave me enough time to look for something where I'm good at and 6 months later I got that job but never, not even 1 day, I stoped looking for another job.
We are all different but things like going for a walk, some small cardio exercise will help A LOT. And try to research what words do the companies use on their listing and use them on your CV, that's key. 90% of the time they don't have a clue of what they need and they just need a problem solver.
Can't keep on writing as I am arriving to the office. But bro.... Don't give up, if anything, learn from everything and remember that moments like that will harden your mentality.
In Argentina we don't usually say "good luck finding a job", we like to don't leave thing to luck but to hard work and perseverance.
People suck, rrhh mostly sucks, learn their ways and get a job.
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>> Shitty pay,shitty shifts, but with good people mostly
I've come to the conclusion that good people is the rarest asset in any office job.
I've come to the conclusion that good people is the rarest asset in any office job.
> I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out".
Please don't. You have something to offer and if you snuffed yourself out, that valuable spark of human spirit would be gone.
Gently, "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work. Keep your chin up and keep applying. Get a resume review — I'm sure someone here would be happy to take a look and see what you can improve. Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in. And reach out to your family and friends for support. There is no shame in leaning on people; we all need help to get through the hard times.
Please don't. You have something to offer and if you snuffed yourself out, that valuable spark of human spirit would be gone.
Gently, "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work. Keep your chin up and keep applying. Get a resume review — I'm sure someone here would be happy to take a look and see what you can improve. Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in. And reach out to your family and friends for support. There is no shame in leaning on people; we all need help to get through the hard times.
> "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work.
I know but when you are desperately looking for work, along with multiple failures, 12 weeks could felt like 12 months. Especially with an empty pocket. I know it rationally doesn't make any sense but from experience that is how it felt. It was hard, especially hard when you dont have family and friends around you for support.
>Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in.
Yes. Waiter, Drivers. There are plenty of options, enough for food on the table.
To OP. I dont know much about US Food Cost, but at one point in my life I was spending 70 pence a day on food, or a little more than a US dollar. Washing clothes by hand, couldn't even afford heating in Winter. Barely able to afford to pay rent and food along with whatever debt. Something like McDonald was luxury. It was hard, but not impossible.
Just dont give up.
Dont FUCKING give up.
I know but when you are desperately looking for work, along with multiple failures, 12 weeks could felt like 12 months. Especially with an empty pocket. I know it rationally doesn't make any sense but from experience that is how it felt. It was hard, especially hard when you dont have family and friends around you for support.
>Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in.
Yes. Waiter, Drivers. There are plenty of options, enough for food on the table.
To OP. I dont know much about US Food Cost, but at one point in my life I was spending 70 pence a day on food, or a little more than a US dollar. Washing clothes by hand, couldn't even afford heating in Winter. Barely able to afford to pay rent and food along with whatever debt. Something like McDonald was luxury. It was hard, but not impossible.
Just dont give up.
Dont FUCKING give up.
During the dot com bust, my brother -in-law ended up being unemployed for 18 months.
Moving back in with family, if an option, is always a good path in situations like this.
Moving back in with family, if an option, is always a good path in situations like this.
Works in the US, where most families live in big houses. Doesn't work as well in the rest of the world, where people tend to live in smallish apartments much more often.
In many parts of the world including parts of Europe eg Italy, it’s common to live with family until you get married.
You will be surprised that in many parts of the world, people do live in big houses too and sometimes much bigger than average mcmansion here in the US. It is usually cities where apartments are more common.
This is very solid advice. Just being around people and not having to worry about rent will be a huuuuge burden lifted off your shoulders!
I think it's important to note that for some people, being around family is more stressful than having to worry about rent.
Being stressed around family is better than being homeless.
True, but that's a whole other story. If you're homeless, you're no longer worrying about rent - you're worrying about having a place to sleep.
I am not an expert in "depression" although been there many times. What helped in my case were the short walks I made near town or in the park. This was the "pill" taken every day that turned the things around. Of course, if you really fill on the edge and "taking it the easy way out" you should definitely speak with someone! But try to take joy of the small things you have. Take it easy and slow and it will get better! Job rejections are always tough, I personally also am taking them way too serious, while in reality the companies really don't care. What they care is to reduce costs, and increase gains. What I did when I was in the same situation, I just reworked my application docs several times, until reaching a satisfactory quality to hook the recruiting guys up, and reduced my salary expectation.
Regarding the Cpp, man I don't know in which country you are, but at least in Switzerland, my country, I stumble upon thousands of job openings for Embedded development engineers every day. Don't know your background, but try thinking a bit more broader.
Bottom line, take it easy, and try doing something you love every day consistently at least once. Tweak your Resume. There some good templates/suggestions in the net these days. Reduce expectations. DON'T read news!
Regarding the Cpp, man I don't know in which country you are, but at least in Switzerland, my country, I stumble upon thousands of job openings for Embedded development engineers every day. Don't know your background, but try thinking a bit more broader.
Bottom line, take it easy, and try doing something you love every day consistently at least once. Tweak your Resume. There some good templates/suggestions in the net these days. Reduce expectations. DON'T read news!
I had my bootstrapped startup for 18+ months, which was not doing well, it was almost like being unemployed; last 6 months I was desperately applying for jobs without getting any traction.
What helped me at that time was Yoga (deep breathing exercises which is part of that was particularly helpful). Yoga used to keep me fresh and 'alive' during the day, so that I could continue looking for jobs without losing steam over period of time.
In the hindsight that single ritual (~4 days a week of morning Yoga), kept me going and now I'm at a good place, managed to recover not only from professional setback but also managed to recover from almost financial wipe-out during that 18-month period.
What helped me at that time was Yoga (deep breathing exercises which is part of that was particularly helpful). Yoga used to keep me fresh and 'alive' during the day, so that I could continue looking for jobs without losing steam over period of time.
In the hindsight that single ritual (~4 days a week of morning Yoga), kept me going and now I'm at a good place, managed to recover not only from professional setback but also managed to recover from almost financial wipe-out during that 18-month period.
One of my friends was in a similar situation recently and, going for a walk in the park and basically just talking to friends and family often on phone helped him immensely. He also used to just let his brain trained by waking up early, taking shower and going to public library every morning at 9am and coming home at 5pm and just preparing for the job interviews there.
Wishing OP all the best and I hope he finds the job soon.
Wishing OP all the best and I hope he finds the job soon.
oh yeah... walks are great
> I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out".
Please, please don't do anything rash. Even a cursory review of your background shows me a person who has an immense amount to offer any employer. More importantly your worth as a human being is not defined by your employer. You will find employment, it is just a matter of time. Don't worry about the state of the world, just focus on yourself. Absolutely do something useful that gives you joy. you will be surprised at how interesting others find what you are doing.
Please, please don't do anything rash. Even a cursory review of your background shows me a person who has an immense amount to offer any employer. More importantly your worth as a human being is not defined by your employer. You will find employment, it is just a matter of time. Don't worry about the state of the world, just focus on yourself. Absolutely do something useful that gives you joy. you will be surprised at how interesting others find what you are doing.
I would strongly look into your spiritual health. You shouldn't be thinking of anything negative. I was worried by what you meant by taking the easy way out.
This means doing some soul searching and deciding you want to know the truth of spiritual reality.
Look into the cause of evil and the source of good.
For me, and I know it's probably not popular on HN but Jesus gets me through each day. Asking for a higher power for help when you clearly need it.
This means doing some soul searching and deciding you want to know the truth of spiritual reality.
Look into the cause of evil and the source of good.
For me, and I know it's probably not popular on HN but Jesus gets me through each day. Asking for a higher power for help when you clearly need it.
There are dozens of us! God bless :)
> Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
— 2 Corinthians 4:13-18
> Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
— 2 Corinthians 4:13-18
Amen. Let us never commit the crime of self-murder, nor allow another to by negligence.
There's a lot of good advice in this thread, so I'll keep my comment brief.
Your value as a person is not determined by whether you are a good programmer.
And.
Your skill as a programmer is not determined by recruiters and hiring managers.
If you want an actionable suggestion, focus on your physical and mental health first and foremost, and look to secure yourself financially. Exercise daily, sleep sufficiently, have plenty of daily social contact, and apply to jobs daily. Do not stress if your next job is not a coding job.
Your value as a person is not determined by whether you are a good programmer.
And.
Your skill as a programmer is not determined by recruiters and hiring managers.
If you want an actionable suggestion, focus on your physical and mental health first and foremost, and look to secure yourself financially. Exercise daily, sleep sufficiently, have plenty of daily social contact, and apply to jobs daily. Do not stress if your next job is not a coding job.
despite my desperation, I usually bailed out application immediately when faced with some "general psychology tests" or timed inside browser coding excercises :D
I don't know if you've ever noticed that when you're tired, like really tired, doing the most simple tasks feel like moving mountains. They may make you angry, frustrated and annoyed. But you go to bed, wake up the next day and can take on any task. If you think about your current situation as "temporarily being tired", then you know some time later, you'll be feeling better. I use this kind of brain hacks all the time to snap out of spiral thinking. Give it a try.
> I don't know when this war will end and whether they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away or not.
I am in a very good place right now and yet I do NOT watch main stream news, regardless of what it is. I have recently started to script away negative content on HN and Twitter as well. So, cut yourself off from news. That alone should lift you up quite a bit.
The world is just fine. It's your fellow human beings who can't pay attention to anything but drama and chaos.
> Trying to do something "useful" in the meantime...
That's the spirit. Also, seek help from pros. Bunch of talking and some drugs can make a world of difference. They are not the cure, but a stepping stone, little push, to help you along the way.
> I don't know when this war will end and whether they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away or not.
I am in a very good place right now and yet I do NOT watch main stream news, regardless of what it is. I have recently started to script away negative content on HN and Twitter as well. So, cut yourself off from news. That alone should lift you up quite a bit.
The world is just fine. It's your fellow human beings who can't pay attention to anything but drama and chaos.
> Trying to do something "useful" in the meantime...
That's the spirit. Also, seek help from pros. Bunch of talking and some drugs can make a world of difference. They are not the cure, but a stepping stone, little push, to help you along the way.
No no no no:
There is no “should” or “shuod not”, you are ill and there it is, NOTHING TO DO WITH RESPONSIBILITY.
You need a doctor because you are ill. Of course, a friend who does not judge and knows something about depression would also help a lot.
Doctor first (and I mean a psychiatrist, really). Then: some legal help and/or economic support (can you declare bankruptcy? Is it a good idea?).
Meanwhile, learning what you can is good but: PHYSICAL EXERCISE.
Stop reading the news: they add nothing positive to your troubles, at all. You need help, not “information”.
Keep you in my prayers. I’ve been there, am talking from experience.
There is no “should” or “shuod not”, you are ill and there it is, NOTHING TO DO WITH RESPONSIBILITY.
You need a doctor because you are ill. Of course, a friend who does not judge and knows something about depression would also help a lot.
Doctor first (and I mean a psychiatrist, really). Then: some legal help and/or economic support (can you declare bankruptcy? Is it a good idea?).
Meanwhile, learning what you can is good but: PHYSICAL EXERCISE.
Stop reading the news: they add nothing positive to your troubles, at all. You need help, not “information”.
Keep you in my prayers. I’ve been there, am talking from experience.
I know that stressed feeling and I know how it feels like it’s never going to end but believe it or not this is a big opportunity. You were in a rut and now you’re going to dig yourself out of it! But, you’re going to need to think differently. First, you need to face the truth that you matter infinitely more than your employment status, debt burdens, and past mistakes. Second, you have a lot to offer the world in ways that right now would surprise and amaze you. Third, you’re going to have to fundamentally change your strategy so you need to seek really specific advice about your situation with someone who can connect you to the right resources. Maybe tap your network for appropriate gigs, talk to a career counselor, a therapist at a local charity e.g. some Catholic Dioceses have free therapy charities, talk to a local Priest or Pastor who often help people in your situation and will know resources in your area. Digging yourself out of this rut is your new full time job, you’re the most qualified, and I believe in you! Good luck!
there's secular therapists too :-)
Have you considered applying for non-tech jobs? Unemployment in most western countries is incredibly low right now. If you have large debts that are stressing you out, taking a boring job and paying it off will ease a lot of that stress. You might also find your talents put to use in areas you don't expect.
This right here. I make decent money as a software eng, but recently spent time with family and saw how much my little brothers are making in roof sales and low voltage electrical work (intercoms, led lighting, etc). Trades and home building in the US pay pretty well.
i was a software engineer for 15 years. Got into framing houses. Started a business about a year into it. I make great money.
You shouldn’t distract yourself. Interviewing is a skill, and you only get better by going through the process and failing. I learned this late in the game, but you should probably not interview at the companies you really want to work at first. Take notes after every interview. You’re going to be rusty. Sometimes you’ll be surprised and progress or get offers.
The other thing is getting physical exercise and diet in check is so important. The mind follows the body, if your body is active and healthy your mind will follow. While I like intellectual activities I do not recommend watching lectures or studying anything that’s not related to your job search. Those activities keep you in your head when you need to be social and outgoing.
The other thing is getting physical exercise and diet in check is so important. The mind follows the body, if your body is active and healthy your mind will follow. While I like intellectual activities I do not recommend watching lectures or studying anything that’s not related to your job search. Those activities keep you in your head when you need to be social and outgoing.
When I stopped working as an Army IT contractor in Germany, I went months with few interviews. Heck, I got rejected from a low-paid PC repair job, likely because the interviewer gave me a quizzical look when I replied that my husband was an engineer, and upon my asking why he wanted to know, he stated that “a family father of three needs more money than a single guy.”
So I volunteered at an after-school program where I was essentially babysitting, just to be forced to leave the house for something other than grocery shopping.
Then I took a part-time job as an English teacher at a big chain of language schools. That forced me to a) dress professionally, b) be places on a schedule and c) talk to the public. One fantastic skill I gained from those three months is a heightened ability to parse meaning out of any speakers who have gone to the trouble of learning some of my language. On the surface, this job was “beneath” me (CS degree from competitive American university, paid a princely 13 EUR/hr), but I really think it re-launched my career.
Finally, I had a great interview with an IT temp agency, which soon placed me in the ok-paid role that was converted into the job I’ve now had for 11 years.
Point of this anecdote? Along with getting the professional help you deserve, a “menial” job that makes you deal with people and follow a schedule will help keep you/get you back into shape for a job more suited to your skills and likes.
So I volunteered at an after-school program where I was essentially babysitting, just to be forced to leave the house for something other than grocery shopping.
Then I took a part-time job as an English teacher at a big chain of language schools. That forced me to a) dress professionally, b) be places on a schedule and c) talk to the public. One fantastic skill I gained from those three months is a heightened ability to parse meaning out of any speakers who have gone to the trouble of learning some of my language. On the surface, this job was “beneath” me (CS degree from competitive American university, paid a princely 13 EUR/hr), but I really think it re-launched my career.
Finally, I had a great interview with an IT temp agency, which soon placed me in the ok-paid role that was converted into the job I’ve now had for 11 years.
Point of this anecdote? Along with getting the professional help you deserve, a “menial” job that makes you deal with people and follow a schedule will help keep you/get you back into shape for a job more suited to your skills and likes.
> So far, every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)
The problem isn't your qualifications, it's your resume and the roles you're applying for! Just look on the Who's Hiring threads here on HN, and filter on the ones that look interesting. Remember, first and foremost, you're applying for a job, it's not some academic tenure track or PhD program. It doesn't have to be that interesting if it pays.
Then, update your resume, and basically broadcast it widely, from maybe 100 applications, you might get 10-20 responses, and from those you might get a shortlist of 4 or 5. Then hit the interviews for these while preparing another "broadcast". It's simply a numbers game.
The problem isn't your qualifications, it's your resume and the roles you're applying for! Just look on the Who's Hiring threads here on HN, and filter on the ones that look interesting. Remember, first and foremost, you're applying for a job, it's not some academic tenure track or PhD program. It doesn't have to be that interesting if it pays.
Then, update your resume, and basically broadcast it widely, from maybe 100 applications, you might get 10-20 responses, and from those you might get a shortlist of 4 or 5. Then hit the interviews for these while preparing another "broadcast". It's simply a numbers game.
Spamming out CVs to companies advertising on HN might be a rational strategy if you work in a popular field like web development and live in the US. It might get you nowhere fast if say you work in a more specialised programming field and live in Europe, where there are serious economic problems, we're asking genuine questions about whether we will have reliable power supplies for everyone throughout the coming winter, there is an actual shooting war happening, and some countries are dealing with big political changes and the accompanying uncertainty. Job markets in many parts of the world are not looking so hot right now, even in tech where we've had a very easy ride for a relatively long time, and being aware of that and having realistic expectations are important for anyone searching or thinking of jumping ship.
Without knowing more about OP's background than they've chosen to share in their submission you can't possibly know whether they would benefit from adopting a different style of resume, building a more widely sought skill set, or simply having more patience and better luck at finding work to pay the immediate bills so they can ride out the storms that hundreds of millions of people are facing over the next few months and give themselves some breathing room to find better opportunities later.
Without knowing more about OP's background than they've chosen to share in their submission you can't possibly know whether they would benefit from adopting a different style of resume, building a more widely sought skill set, or simply having more patience and better luck at finding work to pay the immediate bills so they can ride out the storms that hundreds of millions of people are facing over the next few months and give themselves some breathing room to find better opportunities later.
This is not consistent with my experience in Germany at all. Companies everywhere are looking for educated people. The demand for people with programming skills borders on desperation! Do you have a degree and a pulse? Do you show up for work on time, communicate clearly and keep your promises? Somebody will gladly hire you! You just have to keep at it.
One thing the OP might try is to manage their expectations. My fear is that tech has been so hot for so long that people have forgotten what the normal world feels like.
That world is not horrible. There are many levels between the entry-level and top-paid positions. And there are thousands of companies outside the tech bubble with opportunities suitable for a programmer or developer. I believe that the best opportunities are in the intersection between programming and some other field.
(You are right that they will probably not be found on HN.)
One thing the OP might try is to manage their expectations. My fear is that tech has been so hot for so long that people have forgotten what the normal world feels like.
That world is not horrible. There are many levels between the entry-level and top-paid positions. And there are thousands of companies outside the tech bubble with opportunities suitable for a programmer or developer. I believe that the best opportunities are in the intersection between programming and some other field.
(You are right that they will probably not be found on HN.)
> The demand for people with programming skills borders on desperation! Do you have a degree and a pulse? Do you show up for work on time, communicate clearly and keep your promises? Somebody will gladly hire you! You just have to keep at it.
Translation : "Are you from a top tier institute with several years of experience in FAAANG companies working on EXACTLY the same technologies that are listed in the JD? Great! Now do 5 rounds of leetcode hazing, then system design, then culture fit rounds, and then we'll ghost you"
Translation : "Are you from a top tier institute with several years of experience in FAAANG companies working on EXACTLY the same technologies that are listed in the JD? Great! Now do 5 rounds of leetcode hazing, then system design, then culture fit rounds, and then we'll ghost you"
You obviously don't know the german job market at all. First of all, nobody cares what University you went to because they're more or less all the same. Second, for a normal tech job, it is very uncommon to have more then one, maybe two interviews.
If you just want a job to pay the bills, it's really like that at the moment: You have a pulse and you can write code, you get hired.
If you just want a job to pay the bills, it's really like that at the moment: You have a pulse and you can write code, you get hired.
Looking for a purple unicorn and not hiring anybody, keeping jobs posted for years.
> where there are serious economic problems, we're asking genuine questions about whether we will have reliable power supplies for everyone throughout the coming winter, there is an actual shooting war happening, and some countries are dealing with big political changes and the accompanying uncertainty.
I'll give you that, things look bad right now, but unless it's a near societal collapse then you still need to go out and put food on the table. There's no point curling up in a ball and declaring 'woe is me'.
Even in a bad economy it's still a numbers game to land a good job, except the odds get longer. Even then you can improve your odds somewhat, get some online certifications, learn a new language or framework, or build a portfolio of your with on GitHub. Even a personal website would help. And the main thing to realize is that the only one who can help your chances is yourself. Inaction is your worst enemy.
I'll give you that, things look bad right now, but unless it's a near societal collapse then you still need to go out and put food on the table. There's no point curling up in a ball and declaring 'woe is me'.
Even in a bad economy it's still a numbers game to land a good job, except the odds get longer. Even then you can improve your odds somewhat, get some online certifications, learn a new language or framework, or build a portfolio of your with on GitHub. Even a personal website would help. And the main thing to realize is that the only one who can help your chances is yourself. Inaction is your worst enemy.
I'll give you that, things look bad right now, but unless it's a near societal collapse then you still need to go out and put food on the table.
Again, there is an actual shooting war going on in Europe, which OP alluded to in their submission. I have worked with people from Ukraine in previous tech jobs. I expect some or all those people are currently doing something very different.
Here in the UK and over a single weekend my company went from holding active discussions with a few prospective clients to almost every proposal being suspended for review because of the infamous "mini-budget" a few weeks ago. If we'd been a little further along and maybe setting up new hires for any of the other projects then those jobs would instantly have disappeared too. There must be many other companies here that have been dealing with the same uncertainty and its chilling effects.
Of course people still need to go out and earn a living unless there really are more urgent things they need to do. My point is that there are plenty of reasons other than OP's qualifications or resume why the job market where they are might be much tougher than one where you can expect a 10-20% response rate just from spamming out CVs.
Again, there is an actual shooting war going on in Europe, which OP alluded to in their submission. I have worked with people from Ukraine in previous tech jobs. I expect some or all those people are currently doing something very different.
Here in the UK and over a single weekend my company went from holding active discussions with a few prospective clients to almost every proposal being suspended for review because of the infamous "mini-budget" a few weeks ago. If we'd been a little further along and maybe setting up new hires for any of the other projects then those jobs would instantly have disappeared too. There must be many other companies here that have been dealing with the same uncertainty and its chilling effects.
Of course people still need to go out and earn a living unless there really are more urgent things they need to do. My point is that there are plenty of reasons other than OP's qualifications or resume why the job market where they are might be much tougher than one where you can expect a 10-20% response rate just from spamming out CVs.
imo the situation in western europe is not that bad yet, companies still have demand for software devs, c++ / systems / automotive / medical is well in demand in west / north of europe.
Expand beyond C/C++. I realized about halfway through my career that full time C/C++ work was diminishing and higher-level languages and frameworks were going to open up more jobs (they did). For me, this involved learning more web tech (python, javascript, UI dev) as well as Java. As a C++ dev you might want to also look into Rust as thats becoming more prevalent and popular these days.
Hell, you should just apply to a bunch of Rust jobs, noting your deep experience in C/C++, and see if they bite.
Good luck.
Hell, you should just apply to a bunch of Rust jobs, noting your deep experience in C/C++, and see if they bite.
Good luck.
Are you sure? I have 10 years of C++ dev experience and I feel like a hot girl on tinder… have to constantly fend off recruiters. I have at least a an offer a week… I sometimes go through the interview just to stay sharp (I love my current workplace, been here for almost 8y and I am not planning to change anytime soon) and usually end up with an offer!
Very sure. I have pretty much on every programming language on my resume and LinkedIn (and yes - I have actively worked on projects that shipped to customers using those). Number one recruiter reachouts are webdev (Javascript), followed by generic web backend stuff (Java, sometimes Go, less likely C#). Then there are the Rust crypto blockchain stuff recruiters (yes, it's unfortunately 90% of roles using Rust). And the very least in terms of volume is C/C++/Embedded stuff.
Probably you don’t have enough C++ experience… almost every time I interview someone who claims some experience in C++ (damn… sometimes even people that worked in C++ only for years) I am very tempted to advise them to completely remove C++ from their resume cause their knowledge ridiculous! I am literally bombarded with offers! (My company develop all its backends, web services included, in C++)
Maybe? Maybe not? You are likely as well positioned on judging about that based on looking at an arbitrary name on a message board than the usual recruiters are based on looking at LinkedIn profiles. They are buzzword searching, and a the actual skill check follows in an interview loop. It might just either be about different buzzwords, or a different geographic region.
Ditto. Java is like C++‘s popular cousin who lives nextdoor, talks too much and doesn’t like to take his trash out. It won’t take you long to get familiar with it.
You're desperate. That's good.
Desperation built this world. It's the number one motivator of life.
Desperation mixed with insecurity can seem like depression, but if you're really depressed, out of money and with limited prospects. It's time to go ask someone for help.
Alternative ideas: Can you make money on bug bounties? Can you apply to local universities for tutoring? Can you do some gig work just to chip away at the bills?
Most of our lives are spent spinning our wheels. What separates us from or former selves is how we prepare for take off.
Desperation built this world. It's the number one motivator of life.
Desperation mixed with insecurity can seem like depression, but if you're really depressed, out of money and with limited prospects. It's time to go ask someone for help.
Alternative ideas: Can you make money on bug bounties? Can you apply to local universities for tutoring? Can you do some gig work just to chip away at the bills?
Most of our lives are spent spinning our wheels. What separates us from or former selves is how we prepare for take off.
> You're desperate. That's good.
> Desperation built this world. It's the number one motivator of life.
I am fairly skeptical of the claim that "desperation built this world" as a rationalization for why desperation is good. Human actions built this world. Desperation may or may not be a motivator for actions, but if it is, it does not even seem to be the main motivator. Humans also build things because they want to solve their problems, help others, or even just because they want to build things for the sake of building things.
Desperation also leads to crime, violence, suicide and many other bad things that destroy this world.
> Desperation built this world. It's the number one motivator of life.
I am fairly skeptical of the claim that "desperation built this world" as a rationalization for why desperation is good. Human actions built this world. Desperation may or may not be a motivator for actions, but if it is, it does not even seem to be the main motivator. Humans also build things because they want to solve their problems, help others, or even just because they want to build things for the sake of building things.
Desperation also leads to crime, violence, suicide and many other bad things that destroy this world.
Maybe GP could have framed it more like: "Here's how can you use that for good" rather than simply "That's good". Because I agree, desperation is not good in the aggregate.
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You don't understand because privilege built your world. I guarantee it.
> I guarantee it.
You don't know me, you don't know my life, you don't know what I've been through. The fact that someone has been through bad situations doesn't in itself make them better than others. Being desperate is not a good thing, it's not something to be sought or celebrated - it is something that just happens to you, and it simply sucks. Nothing more, nothing less.
Perhaps you've grew up in a privileged environment and don't know what real desperation is. I can't think of any other reason why you would view it with such rose-tinted glasses. Desperation is so cool and productive when it happens to others, eh?
You don't know me, you don't know my life, you don't know what I've been through. The fact that someone has been through bad situations doesn't in itself make them better than others. Being desperate is not a good thing, it's not something to be sought or celebrated - it is something that just happens to you, and it simply sucks. Nothing more, nothing less.
Perhaps you've grew up in a privileged environment and don't know what real desperation is. I can't think of any other reason why you would view it with such rose-tinted glasses. Desperation is so cool and productive when it happens to others, eh?
> Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.
Don't listen to feedback from employers when you are looking for a job. They can't tell you the truth without putting them selves in possible legal hot water so they just say the first excuse they can think off to fob you off.
At the end of the day the feed back from company A is completely irrelevant for company B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J... You just have to accept that it's a numbers game and you need numbers in the hundreds to find a decent employer.
> Yeah, so I tried (looking for jobs), I failed (getting a new job), and now
and now nothing? or keep trying until you get the results you want? Thats you'r only options, you decide which one you choose. You can see I tried as an excuse to not keep trying or you can just see it as the grind necessary to get what you want. You got a job in the past by trying but it wont work this time because? what? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, let's say you only got that job as a fluke it was a 1 in 1000 chance? Theres more than a thousand jobs on linked in but you'r telling us its not possible?
Im not saying its easy Im saying it's really hard, you have done it in the past and now you are making excuses for why you can't do it again.
Don't listen to feedback from employers when you are looking for a job. They can't tell you the truth without putting them selves in possible legal hot water so they just say the first excuse they can think off to fob you off.
At the end of the day the feed back from company A is completely irrelevant for company B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J... You just have to accept that it's a numbers game and you need numbers in the hundreds to find a decent employer.
> Yeah, so I tried (looking for jobs), I failed (getting a new job), and now
and now nothing? or keep trying until you get the results you want? Thats you'r only options, you decide which one you choose. You can see I tried as an excuse to not keep trying or you can just see it as the grind necessary to get what you want. You got a job in the past by trying but it wont work this time because? what? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, let's say you only got that job as a fluke it was a 1 in 1000 chance? Theres more than a thousand jobs on linked in but you'r telling us its not possible?
Im not saying its easy Im saying it's really hard, you have done it in the past and now you are making excuses for why you can't do it again.
Keep applying! It's very normal for a job search to take months. And it's possible that one of the companies will reach out to you down the line with an interview offer.
It sounds like your resume could use some review. Consider reaching out to friends and experts. Good luck!
It sounds like your resume could use some review. Consider reaching out to friends and experts. Good luck!
There's this meme that you get laid off on Friday, you send some emails on Monday, and you have a job by the end of the week. Not broadly true and certainly not at the moment.
But, yes, review resume and reach out. But also be prepared for this to be a multi-month process.
But, yes, review resume and reach out. But also be prepared for this to be a multi-month process.
Having been in your shoes and endured multiple very long stints of unemployment, I feel like I have some perspective on this.
A few things:
1. The roller coaster of emotions you’re feeling comes from over investing in individual jobs. Unfortunately, you don’t have control over which job is going to come through. What worked for me was to keep focusing on the next opportunity until I actually had an offer secured. That is, send in your resume, and then move on. Interview, and then move on. Don’t make any one job out to be the thing that’s going to be make or break, there’s anyways going to be something else you will find to apply to in the future.
2. A corollary to the above. Don’t give yourself too much time pressure. You don’t have full control over the situation. Having debt and little savings can really amp up the stress levels, but you will have the ability to work your way out of the hole in the future, sometimes in a very surprising amount of time. I hit the point where I needed to borrow money from family just to be able to pay my tax bill, and a couple years later I was in the best financial shape I’ve ever been in. Right now you’re just trying to keep your head above water, and that means giving yourself time and permission to do things that aren’t “productive”. Spend time with people you care about. Do things your enjoy whether or not hey lead to a job.
3. Think long term. This doesn’t have to be anything more than something temporary. You have a lot of time to invest in yourself and do things you wouldn’t typically have time to do with the added responsibility of having a job. Take the opportunity to direct yourself down a path that feels more fulfilling.
Happy to discuss further. I hope you get through this ok.
A few things:
1. The roller coaster of emotions you’re feeling comes from over investing in individual jobs. Unfortunately, you don’t have control over which job is going to come through. What worked for me was to keep focusing on the next opportunity until I actually had an offer secured. That is, send in your resume, and then move on. Interview, and then move on. Don’t make any one job out to be the thing that’s going to be make or break, there’s anyways going to be something else you will find to apply to in the future.
2. A corollary to the above. Don’t give yourself too much time pressure. You don’t have full control over the situation. Having debt and little savings can really amp up the stress levels, but you will have the ability to work your way out of the hole in the future, sometimes in a very surprising amount of time. I hit the point where I needed to borrow money from family just to be able to pay my tax bill, and a couple years later I was in the best financial shape I’ve ever been in. Right now you’re just trying to keep your head above water, and that means giving yourself time and permission to do things that aren’t “productive”. Spend time with people you care about. Do things your enjoy whether or not hey lead to a job.
3. Think long term. This doesn’t have to be anything more than something temporary. You have a lot of time to invest in yourself and do things you wouldn’t typically have time to do with the added responsibility of having a job. Take the opportunity to direct yourself down a path that feels more fulfilling.
Happy to discuss further. I hope you get through this ok.
"taking the easy way out"
Please don't ever. I have suffered from similar thoughts but largely have managed to get over them. Can you possibly take some contracting gigs ? It doesn't seem like you hate C++ but just hated the low paying job. If so, then there are quite a few consulting gigs you can grab just based on your C++ skills, especially in the financial world. Please try reaching out to some recruiters in the financial space. Is this something that would interest you ?
One other option is this company called crossover, it's a real shitty company and they monitor your every move and shit like that but they pay reasonably well, 100K+ and you can get in if you are reasonably good with code. I wouldn't recommend this, but since you are under a lot of debt, the money can be a lifesaver.
Another option is with database companies that are still on C and C++. ScyllaDB, Aerospike are a few options. They are hiring and if you need a referral at Aerospike, feel free to email me, email in profile. I worked there.
Lastly, weeks is not really that long to get a job. Some of the interview loops even at FAANG companies last for 4-6 weeks. So don't lose heart.
One other option is this company called crossover, it's a real shitty company and they monitor your every move and shit like that but they pay reasonably well, 100K+ and you can get in if you are reasonably good with code. I wouldn't recommend this, but since you are under a lot of debt, the money can be a lifesaver.
Another option is with database companies that are still on C and C++. ScyllaDB, Aerospike are a few options. They are hiring and if you need a referral at Aerospike, feel free to email me, email in profile. I worked there.
Lastly, weeks is not really that long to get a job. Some of the interview loops even at FAANG companies last for 4-6 weeks. So don't lose heart.
> Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.
Except those lines are scripted corporate-speak and have no bearing on reality. They don't care about you.
Except those lines are scripted corporate-speak and have no bearing on reality. They don't care about you.
Yes. The hardest part of a job search is learning not to take the rejection personal, because it is not.
Even the interview is about HR trying to fill their quota and trying to tick their secret checklist and repeating whatever their manager tells them to repeat while trying to sound genuine.
Did you ask more details?
try to find out what is lacking in your experience from their POV
Finding a job can take time even during good times, you already quit so only thing you can do is be persistent now and flexible to whatever comes up
In the meantime, Github is always a good option: contribute to OSS projects, show activity and your experience.
Maybe some of the companies regularly contributing to OSS would consider hiring you (RedHat etc?)
try to find out what is lacking in your experience from their POV
Finding a job can take time even during good times, you already quit so only thing you can do is be persistent now and flexible to whatever comes up
In the meantime, Github is always a good option: contribute to OSS projects, show activity and your experience.
Maybe some of the companies regularly contributing to OSS would consider hiring you (RedHat etc?)
You are not alone. This industry is full of Steve Jobs wannabes who all think they are working on the next big thing. They will correspondingly make the interview process a multiday hazing ritual while screaming about the lack of qualified people.
The self importance of people in this industry now rivals that of all the blue chip wall street banker douchebros.
The self importance of people in this industry now rivals that of all the blue chip wall street banker douchebros.
I hope that even if you imagine the worst case scenario, and a worst case scenario that lasts for a year let’s say, if you can look beyond that year I hope there are things to look forward to that are worth making it through. And even if you can’t think of them now while you’re stressed, they’re probably there.
Maybe try to get some other employment, literally any kind? Or yes, like others said, get help from friends, family, etc.
I’m not sure what your family situation is but if you don’t have a family to support, there are a lot of ways for a software developer to earn money on very short notice, maybe not great money but enough to live on. Keep networking and letting people know you’re looking for work and maybe even let them know you’re looking for significantly underpaid work until things get back to normal.
Maybe try to get some other employment, literally any kind? Or yes, like others said, get help from friends, family, etc.
I’m not sure what your family situation is but if you don’t have a family to support, there are a lot of ways for a software developer to earn money on very short notice, maybe not great money but enough to live on. Keep networking and letting people know you’re looking for work and maybe even let them know you’re looking for significantly underpaid work until things get back to normal.
There is no easy way out for your family.
Sack up, work a restaurant job until you're back on your feet. Once you build your stacks back up at the restaurant job use that confidence to hit the job market and take what's yours. You got this, I believe in you.
Sack up, work a restaurant job until you're back on your feet. Once you build your stacks back up at the restaurant job use that confidence to hit the job market and take what's yours. You got this, I believe in you.
I had a very similar situation to yours somewhere in 2020. I applied to plenty of Java and Android developer jobs, I tried also to get internships, half-time, anything. Each time rejected, despite BEng + work experience.
And one day a friend of mine, who was longer in the software engineering industry, told me that the market now is terrible and I should try Helpdesk or DevOps positions. I landed a DO job within a week and switched twice because headhunters were offering me better options all the time.
Moral of the story: don't focus on your one skill, find other skills you have and look for opportunities that are similar in nature and apply not only for C++/programming jobs
And one day a friend of mine, who was longer in the software engineering industry, told me that the market now is terrible and I should try Helpdesk or DevOps positions. I landed a DO job within a week and switched twice because headhunters were offering me better options all the time.
Moral of the story: don't focus on your one skill, find other skills you have and look for opportunities that are similar in nature and apply not only for C++/programming jobs
C/C++ dev here.
Remember that it’s not the language that matters. The underlying programming concepts that you know, thanks to being a C/C++ programmer, are translatable to every other programming language. With the help of a search engine, you’ll realize that you already know how to express yourself in those languages quite proficiently.
Memorizing syntax is not the same as knowing how to program. You already know how to express yourself in all programming languages, now stop gatekeeping yourself and start applying to more jobs than just the ones you’ve been limiting yourself to.
Remember that it’s not the language that matters. The underlying programming concepts that you know, thanks to being a C/C++ programmer, are translatable to every other programming language. With the help of a search engine, you’ll realize that you already know how to express yourself in those languages quite proficiently.
Memorizing syntax is not the same as knowing how to program. You already know how to express yourself in all programming languages, now stop gatekeeping yourself and start applying to more jobs than just the ones you’ve been limiting yourself to.
This!
Chat to your doctor about this, sounds like it may be ‘proper’ depression and they’ll be able to give you advice to tackle it. Maybe you aren’t but talking it through early and catching it early is best :)
A life lesson I learned was to ensure your personal life is as satisfying as your work life so when one tanks you have the other. Make sure your mental model of yourself is >than just ‘software developer’. Learning Japanese sounds healthy :)
On a productive note, if you want work look at Python. There’s tons of remote Python roles and it has some ML elements your maths knowledge will help with.
A life lesson I learned was to ensure your personal life is as satisfying as your work life so when one tanks you have the other. Make sure your mental model of yourself is >than just ‘software developer’. Learning Japanese sounds healthy :)
On a productive note, if you want work look at Python. There’s tons of remote Python roles and it has some ML elements your maths knowledge will help with.
I was in a similar boat in 1999 - you know, back in what people envision as being the "golden days" for C++. The C++ job market, even then, was crap. It was mainly used in engineering (sweat)shops that worked in highly niche, vertical markets and used extremely niche libraries and tooling. Switching jobs was difficult, extremely time-consuming, and often involved moving to another city or region. I can't imagine this situation getting any better in the 23 years since (and in 1999 I was a 13 year C++ veteran who could cite the ARM by chapter and verse and who had worked through the rough draft of what was to become the GoF Design Patterns book). The pay was also low - there just wasn't much of a market for C++ developers and the companies pretty much knew they had you by the short hairs.
What did I do? Learned another skill that had much broader demand. In my case Java enterprise and application servers were just starting to take off and demand for anybody with any experience was skyrocketing. Well, I didn't have much experience but I did have 14 years of C/C++ experience so I found someone who take a chance on me. It paid off. In less than 3 years I had doubled my salary and employment options abounded. I was no longer stuck working for the C++ sweatshops.
What does that look like today? I don't know. These days I'm using Python (a language I thought was utter garbage in the 90's!) to quickly build serverless AWS solutions enabling me to move "at the speed of business" as they like to say and having very little operational overheads so I can keep moving. I'm way past the age most people think of for a developer but I'm considered to be one of the most valuable assets in my organization - which is a Fortune 200 company - and I'm compensated like I'm one of the most valuable assets.
My advice then is this - think about what the next stage of your journey is going to be. Realize that this C++ stage of your journey is over. Figure out what it is you're going to master next. I don't have any advice on what to do about your job situation as I've never quit a job before having another one lined up. You've learned that lesson the hard way so there's no point beating that dead horse.
Good luck, I'd love to hear what you ended up doing!
What did I do? Learned another skill that had much broader demand. In my case Java enterprise and application servers were just starting to take off and demand for anybody with any experience was skyrocketing. Well, I didn't have much experience but I did have 14 years of C/C++ experience so I found someone who take a chance on me. It paid off. In less than 3 years I had doubled my salary and employment options abounded. I was no longer stuck working for the C++ sweatshops.
What does that look like today? I don't know. These days I'm using Python (a language I thought was utter garbage in the 90's!) to quickly build serverless AWS solutions enabling me to move "at the speed of business" as they like to say and having very little operational overheads so I can keep moving. I'm way past the age most people think of for a developer but I'm considered to be one of the most valuable assets in my organization - which is a Fortune 200 company - and I'm compensated like I'm one of the most valuable assets.
My advice then is this - think about what the next stage of your journey is going to be. Realize that this C++ stage of your journey is over. Figure out what it is you're going to master next. I don't have any advice on what to do about your job situation as I've never quit a job before having another one lined up. You've learned that lesson the hard way so there's no point beating that dead horse.
Good luck, I'd love to hear what you ended up doing!
I've been there and there is a way out. patience and persistence are the key. #1 find a way to sustain. usually - that's living off your family. perhaps friends, social institutions or whatnot. inform everyone - figure out how to postpone repaying debts, take the hit, declare bankruptcy, sell whatever stuff you are not using. you want a roof, some food, electricity and internet as cheaply and long as possible. and do all that as early as possible. next - fix the depression (really important - you gonna fail lots of applications just because you sound sad and unmotivated). usually unrelated stuff helps - e.g. learning chess is good at that, probably math too, healthy lifestyle (as long as it's cheap), music. DO NOT GIVE UP - spend at least 4 hours EVERY day combing the internet and applying to new positions. for MONTHS and YEARS if need be. it's a ridiculous mess - expect to be turned down a lot. the longer pause goes - more suspicious it looks to a potential employer (and people still live in weird fantasies of how IT industry is so fast paced that it changes every day). do NOT over-engineer the way you apply and act natural - actually landing a job only to get fired a month later feels even worse. strive to completely detach yourself from the job hunt emotionally. it's a somewhat proactive passive waiting game. FIND those people who actually need you.
Never attempt suicide. Should you fail, you'll just incur new problems-- like mandatory psychiatric holds, brain damage or a failing liver.
> every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)
Don't lose hope. The better-qualified candidates you lost out to don't always stay. Sometimes they stick around for a few weeks and bail, having accepted a better offer.
> Quit a low-paying C++ job (which was a horrible mistake)
You quit for a reason. This was an exploitative situation you were never going to transcend otherwise.
Now you have an opportunity to use this time to add value to your existing skillset. Developers still tend to respond with blank stares when anybody mentions software security. Brush up on best practices and remarket yourself as a security-specialized C++ developer, which creates a niche for yourself in which only you are the best candidate.
One thing I've learned is that there are never really any "better qualified" people than yourself. Everybody acts like they know what they're talking about, but they are often utterly-incompetent con-artists and degenerates with a knack for showmanship who were able to put on a better performance than you. Don't try to compete on merit or competence alone-- you will always be left in the dust.
> every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)
Don't lose hope. The better-qualified candidates you lost out to don't always stay. Sometimes they stick around for a few weeks and bail, having accepted a better offer.
> Quit a low-paying C++ job (which was a horrible mistake)
You quit for a reason. This was an exploitative situation you were never going to transcend otherwise.
Now you have an opportunity to use this time to add value to your existing skillset. Developers still tend to respond with blank stares when anybody mentions software security. Brush up on best practices and remarket yourself as a security-specialized C++ developer, which creates a niche for yourself in which only you are the best candidate.
One thing I've learned is that there are never really any "better qualified" people than yourself. Everybody acts like they know what they're talking about, but they are often utterly-incompetent con-artists and degenerates with a knack for showmanship who were able to put on a better performance than you. Don't try to compete on merit or competence alone-- you will always be left in the dust.
Not going to solve all your problems but one very simple tip that seemingly very few sub-30 year-olds have received... is your resume/CV very basic black text on white background (no colored fonts/backgrounds) in Times New Roman (or similar simple, basic, serif font), 11 or 12pt, and no more than one page? No fancy graphics, no fancy typesetting, no multiple columns, just plain.
Also, try whatever you can to reduce your debt in the meantime. Unemployment sucks, but without debt it is far more tolerable.
Also, try whatever you can to reduce your debt in the meantime. Unemployment sucks, but without debt it is far more tolerable.
Three basic investments-in-self I suggest:
1. A small lamp to keep near your bed. I have a USB cob light with three brightness settings that I got for video recording a few years ago. Turns out, I like it as an anytime light too. I don't think my light produces a natural spectrum, but it seems to help with the onset of short days regardless.
2. Organizers and some stationary. Getting lots of cheap pencil bins, zipper bags, binder clips, manila folders and plastic trays can keep you feeling in control of things around the home if you find you have any disorganized piles of small odds and ends; clip them, bag them, put them in a tray or a bin. Stationary helps focus that because it means you have paper and pencils to store. And stationary is a thing you can apply to studies to make them feel fresh; different pens can give you a different tactile experience when copying information.
3. A pair or two of sturdy gloves for exercise purposes. One of the simplest ways to exercise is to do crawls. Crawling works everything pretty equally, it can get you breathing heavy in a short period and there are lots of variations. You can strap on some weight if you need it to be strength-focused.
1. A small lamp to keep near your bed. I have a USB cob light with three brightness settings that I got for video recording a few years ago. Turns out, I like it as an anytime light too. I don't think my light produces a natural spectrum, but it seems to help with the onset of short days regardless.
2. Organizers and some stationary. Getting lots of cheap pencil bins, zipper bags, binder clips, manila folders and plastic trays can keep you feeling in control of things around the home if you find you have any disorganized piles of small odds and ends; clip them, bag them, put them in a tray or a bin. Stationary helps focus that because it means you have paper and pencils to store. And stationary is a thing you can apply to studies to make them feel fresh; different pens can give you a different tactile experience when copying information.
3. A pair or two of sturdy gloves for exercise purposes. One of the simplest ways to exercise is to do crawls. Crawling works everything pretty equally, it can get you breathing heavy in a short period and there are lots of variations. You can strap on some weight if you need it to be strength-focused.
It appears that you already have some tech skills [in C/C++]. This is more than a lot of people can say. What you should consider doing is finding some meaningful work around that area of skill to get yourself back on track.
Here are a few questions you could ask yourself to get at an answer:
- Are there any challenges that C/C++ developers have that I can solve with a product I can create within a short period of time?
- Are there any problems that I see around me, problems experienced by others that I can resolve with a C/C++ powered solution?
- Are there any technologies similar to C/C++ that I can learn to help me build something that someone may find useful and pay for, or make a transition to another job opportunity that is not specifically C/C++?
- Can I teach or tutor someone [or a small group] C/C++ and earn something to keep me going?
Maybe the next phase for you isn't a new job. I would encourage you to ask yourself questions about how you can use what you know [and are good at] to impact someone else positively and eventually earn a living doing so.
I've read quite a few good suggestions in this post and I would urge you to stay on-board. Storms don't last that long, but you will be changed for the better if you can make it through them.
Here are a few questions you could ask yourself to get at an answer:
- Are there any challenges that C/C++ developers have that I can solve with a product I can create within a short period of time?
- Are there any problems that I see around me, problems experienced by others that I can resolve with a C/C++ powered solution?
- Are there any technologies similar to C/C++ that I can learn to help me build something that someone may find useful and pay for, or make a transition to another job opportunity that is not specifically C/C++?
- Can I teach or tutor someone [or a small group] C/C++ and earn something to keep me going?
Maybe the next phase for you isn't a new job. I would encourage you to ask yourself questions about how you can use what you know [and are good at] to impact someone else positively and eventually earn a living doing so.
I've read quite a few good suggestions in this post and I would urge you to stay on-board. Storms don't last that long, but you will be changed for the better if you can make it through them.
Well, just from reading this, I can tell that you have great potential, not just as a hirable economic agent but, more importantly, as a human being. Being "qualified" according to some company's stupid protocols (which may, for example, just be biased to whether you can follow rules) says nothing about you. So don't feel bad. And speaking of you—the real, internal you, not the you as measured by external social institutions/norms—I completely agree that you should keep learning what you like to learn and finding ways to express yourself.
As for jobs, in the short term definitely consider other jobs (e.g. I recently got a job as a math/CS tutor, pivoting away from my previous software job), or worst case, beg for some shitty job for now and/or ask for assistance from family/friends/etc. Doing so requires humbling yourself in that external sense (like the external sense of being "qualified") but that external you is not the you that matters. So keep fighting for (and improving) that real, beautiful you, whatever it takes!
As for jobs, in the short term definitely consider other jobs (e.g. I recently got a job as a math/CS tutor, pivoting away from my previous software job), or worst case, beg for some shitty job for now and/or ask for assistance from family/friends/etc. Doing so requires humbling yourself in that external sense (like the external sense of being "qualified") but that external you is not the you that matters. So keep fighting for (and improving) that real, beautiful you, whatever it takes!
People are talking about mental and spiritual health, but I will tell you my story. I resigned from a support job which was taking a toll on my mental health to staying jobless for almost an year, which caused stress on top of already existing mental health problem. I finally landed a job in a development role. My mental spiritual personal health has never been better. I am in a better place now. My advise would be to just focus on landing a job first, the easiest way in my opinion is MERN stack. Don't take the easy way out, things will definitely get better. People at hn will disagree but I strongly feel things will fall in place not when your mental health improves but when you get a job first and start earning and start saving. My point is getting into a job will automatically restore your mental health if it depends on it.
Happiness resides in the work and effort we put in the system that will work towards our goal. Well said.
Be confident in yourself and keep trying, there is a better opportunity waiting for you out there, you need to go find it. This will be a long process but you need to keep at it. Canned responses from interviewers should be given less weightage, seek more context if possible and act on it.
Take one thing at a time. Keep yourself busy with learning, doing an activity, going for walks. You said you are good at Math, you can try teaching on virtual platforms like outschool.com
Have someone you trust review your resume and how you approach interviews. This will give you feedback to improve and make any adjustments for the next interview.
Not sure where you are located. You can try joining a technology meetup near you, you get to meet people and learn something new. It can be a good place to learn about any job openings locally.
Keep the momentum going and don't give up!!
Take one thing at a time. Keep yourself busy with learning, doing an activity, going for walks. You said you are good at Math, you can try teaching on virtual platforms like outschool.com
Have someone you trust review your resume and how you approach interviews. This will give you feedback to improve and make any adjustments for the next interview.
Not sure where you are located. You can try joining a technology meetup near you, you get to meet people and learn something new. It can be a good place to learn about any job openings locally.
Keep the momentum going and don't give up!!
OK I'm not quite going to say 'snap out of it', but just note that you've at least identified a problem, and are asking for help, even if you're panicking. Maybe unnecessarily, maybe not. Well done.
Here's my 'worse off than me' story though.
I've been unemployed since about 6 months before covid, the company I was at folded. Actually covid was in some sense a blessing because at least everyone else was also stuck at home.
But here's the thing. I haven't applied for a single job since.
My last job was at a very small startup-cum-dev-shop at which I began to feel quite resentful getting a mere salary, as one of the first employees, building out the initial product/service, when the founder was banking significant profits. And simply programming, started to become a real chore, and gradually a challenge, very especially when we introduced scrum and all that 'observable, transparent working' crap which of course only works in one direction, workers are observed, bosses observe. Eventually our only customer cancelled, and everyone was 'let go'.
My tech 'currency' has stagnated in that time, while I've observed the rise of multiple-round algorithm-centered interviews (since when I joined that company ~10 years ago by word of mouth), etc, etc, and the whole scene has put me off even applying for actual jobs, on top of which, even if I were to land a programming job (seriously, when did a mere developer job become something so aspirational?), I'm not sure I can, or even want to do it as a job again, especially the whole scrum, standup, retrospective thing. Though I still love programming itself, and keep doing little projects for myself.
And here's the other thing. I have a bunch of kids, and only about 2 month's savings left. And I'm an oldie, approaching mid 50s.
So, not only are there people worse off than you, some of them have almost entirely self-inflicted their predicament. Imagine how that feels, and cheer up!
Here's my 'worse off than me' story though.
I've been unemployed since about 6 months before covid, the company I was at folded. Actually covid was in some sense a blessing because at least everyone else was also stuck at home.
But here's the thing. I haven't applied for a single job since.
My last job was at a very small startup-cum-dev-shop at which I began to feel quite resentful getting a mere salary, as one of the first employees, building out the initial product/service, when the founder was banking significant profits. And simply programming, started to become a real chore, and gradually a challenge, very especially when we introduced scrum and all that 'observable, transparent working' crap which of course only works in one direction, workers are observed, bosses observe. Eventually our only customer cancelled, and everyone was 'let go'.
My tech 'currency' has stagnated in that time, while I've observed the rise of multiple-round algorithm-centered interviews (since when I joined that company ~10 years ago by word of mouth), etc, etc, and the whole scene has put me off even applying for actual jobs, on top of which, even if I were to land a programming job (seriously, when did a mere developer job become something so aspirational?), I'm not sure I can, or even want to do it as a job again, especially the whole scrum, standup, retrospective thing. Though I still love programming itself, and keep doing little projects for myself.
And here's the other thing. I have a bunch of kids, and only about 2 month's savings left. And I'm an oldie, approaching mid 50s.
So, not only are there people worse off than you, some of them have almost entirely self-inflicted their predicament. Imagine how that feels, and cheer up!
Sometimes even an unskilled job is better than no job, to at least have some income to work with, even if some debts have to wait. It gives you a tool to negotiate those debts far better than with no income at all. And once you are ready (maybe now), the Dave Ramsey materials can help prepare for the next financial down period (we all have ups and downs of different kinds).
Also, I would consider contacting https://www.latterdaysaintjobs.org/ers/ct/?lang=eng (you do not have to be a Church member) and follow their program for employment, very diligently. I gather that they are good at it.
And you are needed and valuable! Nothing you can do can change that.
Also, I would consider contacting https://www.latterdaysaintjobs.org/ers/ct/?lang=eng (you do not have to be a Church member) and follow their program for employment, very diligently. I gather that they are good at it.
And you are needed and valuable! Nothing you can do can change that.
Let a job just be a job: a transaction from a fixed amount of time and effort for money to cover your expenses.
You don't have to be the best at anything. The sooner you detach from that notion that your life is only valuable if you produce some economic output, the sooner you will reach the mental freedom of not stressing out about every day life. If you go so far to throw your life away just because you can't function in this made up environment, you can simply redefine yourself to see the things the way they truly are.
If you know C++, you can easily pick up java spring boot and working with databases. Whatever you do, do it joyfully and you will ease into things with little effort. Rekindle your curiosity and shake off the chatter of the people.
I think you let yourself get manipulated by the negative news, outlooks and rejections from people. You are not in control of your inner world. Let the outer world be the way it is, but on the inside, you can create whatever state you want to be in. You have to become the architect of your own life or people will architect you the way they want: in fear of things you can't control.
Have you ever noticed how the world just keeps spinning as if nothing happened? Your country spins in a small cycle, the world spins in a larger cycle, the solar system spins in a much bigger cycle, but whatever you do, the universe doesn't give a damn about these abstractions you stress yourself out with. People act as if they run the world. They keep themselves up to date with the latest bit of drama.
With that put into perspective, how much does a rejection really matter? I don't think it changes anything. Even if you got the job, whatever happens there should have no impact on you. The next problem may be a boss, a coworker, a technical issue, a financial issue... the list goes on. When do you want to break free from this?
Make programming an all inclusive process. Pick up knowledge on the fly and you will grow horizontally to be a solution to this problem. Just whatever you do, focus on what matters to you, not what matters to someone who tells you what matters.
You don't have to be the best at anything. The sooner you detach from that notion that your life is only valuable if you produce some economic output, the sooner you will reach the mental freedom of not stressing out about every day life. If you go so far to throw your life away just because you can't function in this made up environment, you can simply redefine yourself to see the things the way they truly are.
If you know C++, you can easily pick up java spring boot and working with databases. Whatever you do, do it joyfully and you will ease into things with little effort. Rekindle your curiosity and shake off the chatter of the people.
I think you let yourself get manipulated by the negative news, outlooks and rejections from people. You are not in control of your inner world. Let the outer world be the way it is, but on the inside, you can create whatever state you want to be in. You have to become the architect of your own life or people will architect you the way they want: in fear of things you can't control.
Have you ever noticed how the world just keeps spinning as if nothing happened? Your country spins in a small cycle, the world spins in a larger cycle, the solar system spins in a much bigger cycle, but whatever you do, the universe doesn't give a damn about these abstractions you stress yourself out with. People act as if they run the world. They keep themselves up to date with the latest bit of drama.
With that put into perspective, how much does a rejection really matter? I don't think it changes anything. Even if you got the job, whatever happens there should have no impact on you. The next problem may be a boss, a coworker, a technical issue, a financial issue... the list goes on. When do you want to break free from this?
Make programming an all inclusive process. Pick up knowledge on the fly and you will grow horizontally to be a solution to this problem. Just whatever you do, focus on what matters to you, not what matters to someone who tells you what matters.
> "rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)"
"Rejection" is such a negative word. Technically it's not what happens most of the time.
If 10 talented people with strong applications apply for the same job, 9 will be unsuccessful. The employer must choose someone, and any number of unpredictable variables may determine their final choice. "Better qualified" sounds like a standard rejection letter.
Lucky employer for having 10 awesome candidates and a tough decision. In the end they gamble on the chosen applicant. In interviews it's good to talk about interesting things you're doing on the side. In my interview I demonstrated my side projects briefly without dwelling. Interest was sparked. Just have good chats and don't worry.
"Rejection" is such a negative word. Technically it's not what happens most of the time.
If 10 talented people with strong applications apply for the same job, 9 will be unsuccessful. The employer must choose someone, and any number of unpredictable variables may determine their final choice. "Better qualified" sounds like a standard rejection letter.
Lucky employer for having 10 awesome candidates and a tough decision. In the end they gamble on the chosen applicant. In interviews it's good to talk about interesting things you're doing on the side. In my interview I demonstrated my side projects briefly without dwelling. Interest was sparked. Just have good chats and don't worry.
Do not forget that being a programmer, you already have the ability to create electronic products people will pay for. Consider learning Swift/Kotlin and making a paid, subscription-based mobile app. Consider learning Go/Rust/TypeScript and making a paid, subscription-based SaaS. (Those are tough markets right now, so you will need good "find-a-customer-pain-point" product design knowledge, first.)
Consider learning a niche programming language such as Scala or Haskell or consider a career as a programming educator or a technical writer; those lower-paid niches are way less competitive than the higher-paid programming mainstream.
You are a programmer. You do have and will continue to have options, until you're over 70 years old.
Consider learning a niche programming language such as Scala or Haskell or consider a career as a programming educator or a technical writer; those lower-paid niches are way less competitive than the higher-paid programming mainstream.
You are a programmer. You do have and will continue to have options, until you're over 70 years old.
you're desperate, but like you said, most of us have experienced the same thing, some even worse than others. Don't take action based on your desperation or emotion right now.
We're all here because we made it through those times, believe it or not it will all pass if you fight through. Persistency is the key, go to the gym or a long walk every day, that helps you clear your mind. After that just keep applying, in the meanwhile try to work for hospitality or something just to cover the bills.
You're way ahead than those who just started learning to code, and they don't give up, many of them made it, so should you!!
We're all here because we made it through those times, believe it or not it will all pass if you fight through. Persistency is the key, go to the gym or a long walk every day, that helps you clear your mind. After that just keep applying, in the meanwhile try to work for hospitality or something just to cover the bills.
You're way ahead than those who just started learning to code, and they don't give up, many of them made it, so should you!!
> Maybe I should learn things and get distracted in these uncertain times.
It sounds to me like you've already got one foot on the ladder out of that hole.
I'm pretty sure I've been in that hole, and I'm pretty sure I remember that ladder.
It sounds to me like you've already got one foot on the ladder out of that hole.
I'm pretty sure I've been in that hole, and I'm pretty sure I remember that ladder.
Now is the time to hone your skills in a highly in-demand area, with little competition.
Get Linux on your computer, study the Linux kernel, and learn about EBPF.
Write some monitoring software using EBPF, learn all about it. Learn about the Linux Kernel, and LDD.
Then apply for jobs in these areas, be ambiguous about your on-the-job experience.
Speak competently when you get the interview about the tech, the companies that are hiring for these skills are desperate to hire for them, there aren't people with these skills falling out of trees.
It's a bad time in the industry, but unemployment is something like 2.3%. There is a position out there for you.
Get Linux on your computer, study the Linux kernel, and learn about EBPF.
Write some monitoring software using EBPF, learn all about it. Learn about the Linux Kernel, and LDD.
Then apply for jobs in these areas, be ambiguous about your on-the-job experience.
Speak competently when you get the interview about the tech, the companies that are hiring for these skills are desperate to hire for them, there aren't people with these skills falling out of trees.
It's a bad time in the industry, but unemployment is something like 2.3%. There is a position out there for you.
Definitely use this time to study, create a new roadmap with new goals. For me, keeping routine is essential so you don't fall in a deeper emotional pit. Get up daily, set goals, do some open source projects if you got nothing else. If you want to pursue math or another career path, now is a good of a time as any. Keep applying for jobs but don't let it consume all your time, pick up side hustles to assist with debt/cash flow. Set aside a few hours a day for each pursuit, divide it up. Keep exercising and eating clean, don't doomscroll if you're feeling down.
I always thought it's absurd that people who don't even know what a loop is think they can become professional developers by going into a hip coding bootcamp for a few weeks, when people with years of experience can't get a job.
I've spent a few years unemployed after I quit my shitty job to focus on finishing my degree. I know it's hard to learn new things when you're depressed, but If I were you I would be reading C#/Java/MSSQL/Oracle books and doing example applications by following tutorials. You can find all the materials online, for free.
I've spent a few years unemployed after I quit my shitty job to focus on finishing my degree. I know it's hard to learn new things when you're depressed, but If I were you I would be reading C#/Java/MSSQL/Oracle books and doing example applications by following tutorials. You can find all the materials online, for free.
It looks like there is some great advice in here already, I will add one thing and that is: try your best not to let the rejection you experience during this process be a self-reflection on who you are and how you see yourself. The truth is that many of the people looking at your resume or running through an interview have no idea how great of a human you are and what you truly have to offer, and they are making snap judgements.
You seem to be extremely bright, curious, and observant about the world around you and the world is a better place with you in it. Good luck and keep your head up!
You seem to be extremely bright, curious, and observant about the world around you and the world is a better place with you in it. Good luck and keep your head up!
> keep a routine every single day
> Time to set new goals, for months away, one week away, today.
> Keep exercising and eating the way you did while working (or improve if you didn't)
> Set aside 1-2 hours a day you'll work on applying for new jobs, the rest of each day divide it among other goals and pursuits. This division allows u to maintain control
> Get a side hustle for cash flow, and work on open source projects to get your skills up or look at different paths. If you want to change paths now is a good of a time as any.
Spend more time learning to do physical exercises. Fix those shoulders. Strengthen that back. The waking hours afk you have right now, you're going to wish you had, once you start a new job. And that I believe you will.
As for finding that job, if the current perspective doesn't work for you, why not try a gamifying perspective? You're the main character. The game world is a tough place. Upgrading which skills would be advantageous to your progression? There's no game over in this game, only try again stronger.
As for finding that job, if the current perspective doesn't work for you, why not try a gamifying perspective? You're the main character. The game world is a tough place. Upgrading which skills would be advantageous to your progression? There's no game over in this game, only try again stronger.
Before my previous job i went on like 36 interviews for months before I got lucky And found a match with a company that wanted to hire me.
The expectation that it’s easy to find work is not the norm, and the belief that if you can’t work as a c++ developer you might as well end it all is unreasonable.
Plenty of people are plenty happy and live rich fulfilling lives outside of tech. Go get a job in a grocery store or starbucks or restaurant or something and keep applying to engineering jobs on the side.
Problem solved.
The expectation that it’s easy to find work is not the norm, and the belief that if you can’t work as a c++ developer you might as well end it all is unreasonable.
Plenty of people are plenty happy and live rich fulfilling lives outside of tech. Go get a job in a grocery store or starbucks or restaurant or something and keep applying to engineering jobs on the side.
Problem solved.
My Dude I promise you most of us have been there.
If you want an employer that fits you, you are going to be on the hunt for a while and that is ok. The only mistake you made is not to prepare your departure early.
If your hobbies are math and C++ im pretty sure there is an entire world of code out there that most of us are not interested in or capable of and therefore that is your niche.
Prepare your profile accordingly because how is a recruiter going to know what you want?!
Keep calm and keep applying, and the final thing to look out for: don't lowball yourself.
If you want an employer that fits you, you are going to be on the hunt for a while and that is ok. The only mistake you made is not to prepare your departure early.
If your hobbies are math and C++ im pretty sure there is an entire world of code out there that most of us are not interested in or capable of and therefore that is your niche.
Prepare your profile accordingly because how is a recruiter going to know what you want?!
Keep calm and keep applying, and the final thing to look out for: don't lowball yourself.
> If your hobbies are math and C++ im pretty sure there is an entire world of code out there that most of us are not interested in or capable of and therefore that is your niche.
That is true to a degree. There are jobs which need a combination of C++ and math. A lot of those jobs require pre-existing domain knowledge though. Graphics engines, geophysics software, physical simulation software, computer vision, math software (e.g. working at Wolfram) mostly requires some preexisting knowledge of that field. You could pick one of those field and try to learn it on your own, but it will be a many-month investment and will limit you to just a handful companies in the world - each of those niches is small or very small. On top of that, you'll likely be making less than a kid slinging React.
That is true to a degree. There are jobs which need a combination of C++ and math. A lot of those jobs require pre-existing domain knowledge though. Graphics engines, geophysics software, physical simulation software, computer vision, math software (e.g. working at Wolfram) mostly requires some preexisting knowledge of that field. You could pick one of those field and try to learn it on your own, but it will be a many-month investment and will limit you to just a handful companies in the world - each of those niches is small or very small. On top of that, you'll likely be making less than a kid slinging React.
Find any job you can. Pick up service based jobs ideally with commission. Find a buddy who runs a contracting company and ask him to help. Construction/trades are recession proof industries.
Good luck.
Good luck.
I was on your position last winter. After 3 months of rejections there was a company that after some interviews it looked like I was going to get not only a job but a really good one.
They told me that I need more experience, and that they were not sure about me on the role position.
That was devastating for me. I was having the same thoughts as you do.
3 days later a company that I did not remember call me, we have a short call and after 5 days I was working.
Give it some time!
There is a lot that has been said in the comments and one thing I hope you can see is that your situation is not unique. Many of us have beaten it before, and many more will beat it again (including you) ... be encouraged in that.
In my case, I ascribe my escape to my unshakable faith in God and I'm not ashamed to say it. Without that, I'm 100% confident I would not be where I am today.
NEVER GIVE UP!
In my case, I ascribe my escape to my unshakable faith in God and I'm not ashamed to say it. Without that, I'm 100% confident I would not be where I am today.
NEVER GIVE UP!
If you are already at systems level programming field (C/C++) you can tackle on Rust, which is becoming more and more popular (Linux Kernel, Microsoft in the future, etc)
Similarly, you can probably learn Python and (given your interest in math) data science, or TypeScript and web dev (may not be the most rewarding career but it can buy you time to pivot to something else). If you have been writing code for a while you should be able to pick up a specialization to a junior level in a few weeks, and some places will let you do that learning on the job. Good luck, and don’t give up.
Take care of your physical health, and go for long 5 mile (8 km) walks everyday. Mental health substantially depends on physical health and hope you feel better.
Even if you lose all your property and declare bankruptcy, you can still drive a car, you can still work in food service, you can still drag yourself out of the hole. I hesitate to bring up religion here, but even if you are not religious then philosophies like stoicism can bring you peace. And also look into psychiatric drugs like anti-depressants, they do work for many people. Good luck and don't give up hope
This may not be what you want to hear pal, but consider getting 'just any job' for now, to make ends meet. It's not going to feel good, and you're probably going to hate it, but at least you won't be unemployed... which will feel better than being unemployed.
I may not be a programmer, but I have been in your shoes. It sucks. The abyss looks friendly sometimes when society is not.
I may not be a programmer, but I have been in your shoes. It sucks. The abyss looks friendly sometimes when society is not.
However, I simply don't feel like it.
That's definitely not going to help. The more time passes, the harder it will get.
Instead, try to take this time away from a job as an opportunity to gain relevant qualifications. This could be as simple as learning a new programming language or a new framework etc., contribute to open source projects, or - if you want to go down the corporate route - get some sort of certification. Also, soft skills, like spending unpaid time for a good cause is often valued highly by employers who don't just want to hire a machine.
A simple but effective way how to improve employability is to look through current job postings and note what skills and qualifications are asked for. Then compare to your own resume and from there derive a plan how to close the gap. Of course, that is not possible in arbitrary ways and a short amount of time, for instance, if you don't have a degree but most jobs you're interested in require one. But there are a lot of opportunities to make your CV better.
Speaking of which, you may want to really spend some time optimizing your resume, and do not forget to always tailor it each time to the specific job you're applying to. Like in many areas of life, one size does not fit all, but if you have a solid base resume then the adaptations for each job application will typically not be a lot of work.
Also, in my experience, cold applications to jobs are one thing but if you have the chance to feel out for opportunities through your network of contacts that might actually be a more promising way to get a job.
That's definitely not going to help. The more time passes, the harder it will get.
Instead, try to take this time away from a job as an opportunity to gain relevant qualifications. This could be as simple as learning a new programming language or a new framework etc., contribute to open source projects, or - if you want to go down the corporate route - get some sort of certification. Also, soft skills, like spending unpaid time for a good cause is often valued highly by employers who don't just want to hire a machine.
A simple but effective way how to improve employability is to look through current job postings and note what skills and qualifications are asked for. Then compare to your own resume and from there derive a plan how to close the gap. Of course, that is not possible in arbitrary ways and a short amount of time, for instance, if you don't have a degree but most jobs you're interested in require one. But there are a lot of opportunities to make your CV better.
Speaking of which, you may want to really spend some time optimizing your resume, and do not forget to always tailor it each time to the specific job you're applying to. Like in many areas of life, one size does not fit all, but if you have a solid base resume then the adaptations for each job application will typically not be a lot of work.
Also, in my experience, cold applications to jobs are one thing but if you have the chance to feel out for opportunities through your network of contacts that might actually be a more promising way to get a job.
You're depressed. So you should do things to help you be less depressed in the short term, because then you can move on to longer ways to be less depressed (progress in career, relationship, etc). Those are: exercise, sleep (try cutting down caffeine and alcohol), and most iimportantly, helping other people, and social pressure.
Took me a year to find a job. I was quite negative well into Month 11. Things could turn around at any time, unexpectedly
Don't give up, you'll find work. Have you thought about doing some labouring while looking for work?
I've found that I rather enjoy some mindless physical work every now and then. It clears the mind and is good exercise. It doesn't pay well but keeps food on the table.
Good luck, don't give up, you can get out of the hole.
I've found that I rather enjoy some mindless physical work every now and then. It clears the mind and is good exercise. It doesn't pay well but keeps food on the table.
Good luck, don't give up, you can get out of the hole.
If you can rearrange debt so that you have 2x $70 minimum payments instead of 3 it might help to keep your outflow down until you land again. I found meetings of other job seekers to be excellent for support and getting into the career transition mindset and game plan.
Speak with loved ones, friends, former colleagues. The times I've felt my lowest I’ve usually neglected the fact that I have people who care about me, but who don’t know I’m struggling. You will get through this period and look back on this time, keep your head up and move forward.
Brother, you are not defined by your unemployment.
When I was 22 I was broke, drunk, and fired. I had no experience at anything and thought that I'd be homeless forever.
Things change. You learn to kick adversity in the face and keep on keeping on.
You'll be fine. In a year, you'll look back and laugh. Just breathe.
When I was 22 I was broke, drunk, and fired. I had no experience at anything and thought that I'd be homeless forever.
Things change. You learn to kick adversity in the face and keep on keeping on.
You'll be fine. In a year, you'll look back and laugh. Just breathe.
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It's possible there aren't opportunities in your city/country. Did you look into relocation or remote work? There are companies that organize relocation, set up etc. I know in Poland for example they accept pretty much everyone with a heartbeat due to demand.
A person with your skills are good in any devops/sysadmin role, because there are many devops who hardly know how to code. Wish someone hiring manager can take you on some contract role, then convert you to full time.
Maybe post a link to your resume and a few bulletpoints about what your skills and passions are here? The force multiplier of our collective HN network is massive. And we help one another.
Job boards are brutal. You need referrals. We can do that.
Job boards are brutal. You need referrals. We can do that.
I wouldn’t blame the economy. I would honestly try skilling up. If you can do c++ you can do other development work.
Try improving your portfolio and practice interview problems (I know they suck but it is a big part of interviewing in most places).
Try improving your portfolio and practice interview problems (I know they suck but it is a big part of interviewing in most places).
You should put some contact details into your profile, so people can reach out directly.
Sounds like you have some specific interests, and interesting skills, I'd be down to chat. My contact details are on my profile, send an email!
Sounds like you have some specific interests, and interesting skills, I'd be down to chat. My contact details are on my profile, send an email!
Sorry to hear brother. You seem qualified. If you have some interest then start doing videos for your own Youtube channels, start writing blog posts. You may also teach online.
Don’t let this life defeat you. Keep your head up.
Hey brother, my prayers are with you. I’ve been there and it was very much worth coming out the other side. Much love from the USA.
Instead of focusing 100% on yourself, you need to get out of your own head. Go help others. Volunteer. Use your time.
^ , its exhausting seeing the world for what it really is. You have the fed currently tipping the scales against workers right when workers started having bargaining power after ten years of liquidity being pumped and stored under the rug that was the equity/private markets, no money circulating means no real inflation. Once the fed members sold a year ago in October it was obvious they were going to crash the economy all that money rushed out into hard assets and money began circulating. Sure supply side played a part, makes for a great cover. Now you have record inflation and before workers can demand higher pay to offset the higher cost of living they're going to nip it and restart the cycle where workers have no leverage all over again having to accept a lower standard of living where your money doesn't go as far. Unless you were born wealthy, you're playing a short stacked game that's -ev. As more people realize that playing by the rules and working hard gets you no where, the more crime and scams will become appealing and will thrive. And for all the tech workers who made decent money the past ten years and have the libertarian mindset that you accomplished it all by yourself, well that was mostly the feds liquidity pumping your options and RSUs and even then you probably deserved more money than you got paid. About the easy way out comment, have felt and feel the same way, though the blink reunion tour might buy me more time.
You didn't find a job... yet! Don't give up!
I've helped hundreds of developers find better paying freelance / contract work - add me on LinkedIn and I'll review your CV and profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-puni/
I've helped hundreds of developers find better paying freelance / contract work - add me on LinkedIn and I'll review your CV and profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-puni/
yeah... but... recruitment agents ain't really your friends. can (!) be a success yet still - adds a lot of costs -> pressure.
How the fuck can you be underpaid C++? It's like COBOL 20 years ago.
Now cobol pays even more (and kills you inside… that is why I removed all my COBOL and mainframe experience from my resume)
Yield thou not to adversity, but instead fight on all the harder!
Also don't doomscroll!! It won't help
Been in your situation several times (in fact I left my job a few weeks ago and know for sure that I will be in the same state of mind in a few days, but my life is more balanced than a few years ago so I'll have more support to overcome that hell).
There is no simple solution.
I hope this few advices will help:
* Do not bury yourself in loneliness: you are caught in a vicious circle where you have a negative vision of yourself, try things and fail which strenghten this negative vision. This circle cannot be escaped by yourself alone: you need people to talk about it, who will help have a lighter saw of the situation. Talk about this with the people you know.
* Meet new people (easier said than done, but definitely a good way to break out of the spiral). If you really don't have any idea, you could always offer a beer to strangers in bars.
* As suggested elsewhere in this thread: get help from a doctor. Take anxiolytics to soft the pain and help you forget about your shitty situation.
* Ban the "news": it will only confirm you that the world is not worth living in. Definitely not what you need.
* Get pleasure: make a list of ten things that you like and try to do at least three a day. Everything that brings you joy will help.
* Getting a job has really little to do with the skills needed for the job, most of it is selling yourself as the best match for the job. Nobody can evaluate your skills in an interview. Being in a bad mood plays against you in this game. Even if you don't believe it, lie and tell that you're the best fit for the job.
* Learn to love yourself: simple tricks like saying "i'm the best" in front of a mirror are dumb, but they work.
* Do not focus on doing "useful" things, everything will pay off in its due time. Nothing is useless by itself, everything you learn could be useful later.
* Walk and see. Take some time to walk around your neighbourhood, watch what happens around you, talk to strangers. Take some photos of the things you find beautiful. It will help you to feel being part of a greater whole and will avoid to focus on your own problems.
* Write. About anything, you don't even need to make a public blog or that kind of thing, a simple text file somewhere on your computer is enough. Just tidying your thoughts to be able to write them down is a useful exercice to understand yourself, and understanding yourself is key to get out of this ball of darkness.
* Laugh. Watch funny movies, etc. Laughing will decrease your sadness, it's kind of mechanical.
* If you are not able to believe in yourself, believe in me, who believes in you.
I know this kind of situation is very hard to live, and you must feel as there is no ending to it, but eventually you will find your way out.
Good luck and keep hope.
There is no simple solution.
I hope this few advices will help:
* Do not bury yourself in loneliness: you are caught in a vicious circle where you have a negative vision of yourself, try things and fail which strenghten this negative vision. This circle cannot be escaped by yourself alone: you need people to talk about it, who will help have a lighter saw of the situation. Talk about this with the people you know.
* Meet new people (easier said than done, but definitely a good way to break out of the spiral). If you really don't have any idea, you could always offer a beer to strangers in bars.
* As suggested elsewhere in this thread: get help from a doctor. Take anxiolytics to soft the pain and help you forget about your shitty situation.
* Ban the "news": it will only confirm you that the world is not worth living in. Definitely not what you need.
* Get pleasure: make a list of ten things that you like and try to do at least three a day. Everything that brings you joy will help.
* Getting a job has really little to do with the skills needed for the job, most of it is selling yourself as the best match for the job. Nobody can evaluate your skills in an interview. Being in a bad mood plays against you in this game. Even if you don't believe it, lie and tell that you're the best fit for the job.
* Learn to love yourself: simple tricks like saying "i'm the best" in front of a mirror are dumb, but they work.
* Do not focus on doing "useful" things, everything will pay off in its due time. Nothing is useless by itself, everything you learn could be useful later.
* Walk and see. Take some time to walk around your neighbourhood, watch what happens around you, talk to strangers. Take some photos of the things you find beautiful. It will help you to feel being part of a greater whole and will avoid to focus on your own problems.
* Write. About anything, you don't even need to make a public blog or that kind of thing, a simple text file somewhere on your computer is enough. Just tidying your thoughts to be able to write them down is a useful exercice to understand yourself, and understanding yourself is key to get out of this ball of darkness.
* Laugh. Watch funny movies, etc. Laughing will decrease your sadness, it's kind of mechanical.
* If you are not able to believe in yourself, believe in me, who believes in you.
I know this kind of situation is very hard to live, and you must feel as there is no ending to it, but eventually you will find your way out.
Good luck and keep hope.
[deleted]
Learn Web development.....pick up Rust, Golang or Java.... it's hard to find jobs with C++
So far, every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)
Some weeks have passed, I didn't find anything new. Have large amounts of debt and barely any savings.
I am exhausted and stressed to the point where I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out". Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.
It seems like I am going to be unemployed for a while. I don't know when this war will end and whether they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away or not.
However, I know, I am not alone in this and god knows how many people have it worse than me. The uncertainty for me (and probably for many others) is really hard to endure.
So maybe I shouldn't be exhausted or depressed as I am right now. Maybe I should learn things and get distracted in these uncertain times.
Naval Ravikant suggests you to learn math. Math and physics happens to be a hobby of mine. Currently, (re-)studying linear algebra and analysis in R^n (multivariable calculus). Those 2 areas in math interest me the most and I enjoy studying them. Other than that, I like to watch physics lectures from Walter Lewin. Trying to learn some Japanese with Genki.
All that is "useless", but at least they bring me joy, and they distract me enough from this harsh economic reality.
On the other hand, I can learn something "useful" for whatever the job market demands of me. As being mostly a C and C++ dev won't cut it for me anyway. However, I simply don't feel like it.
Yeah, so I tried (looking for jobs), I failed (getting a new job), and now it looks like I need to come in terms with my unemployment and the fact that the world tanks right now. Trying to do something "useful" in the meantime...
Signing off.