Ship of Fools(successfulsoftware.net)
successfulsoftware.net
Ship of Fools
https://successfulsoftware.net/2023/09/19/ship-of-fools/
144 comments
> People refuse to acknowledge that their conservation efforts for a year are undone by some guy in Texas in five minutes
I don't think that's a good way to look at things. Some guy in Texas is polluting a lot more than you, ok, but would it be better if that guy keeps polluting and you pollute just as much? We can't get hung up on, 'well some person/company somewhere else is undoing my savings'. That kind of gets into tragedy of the commons thinking.
It is disheartening to see parts of the country going in the opposite direction than we should be going for sure. And well-meaning but not very useful policies can be a pain. But I try not to be disheartened at backward thinking in other locales, I try to look at the places making advances (for example, India is ahead of schedule in the shift to renewables) to be find some optimistic amidst the bleakness.
I don't think that's a good way to look at things. Some guy in Texas is polluting a lot more than you, ok, but would it be better if that guy keeps polluting and you pollute just as much? We can't get hung up on, 'well some person/company somewhere else is undoing my savings'. That kind of gets into tragedy of the commons thinking.
It is disheartening to see parts of the country going in the opposite direction than we should be going for sure. And well-meaning but not very useful policies can be a pain. But I try not to be disheartened at backward thinking in other locales, I try to look at the places making advances (for example, India is ahead of schedule in the shift to renewables) to be find some optimistic amidst the bleakness.
It's not "just as much" by any stretch. A more comparable scenario is – you pollute by 10 units, your neighbor pollutes by 1000 units, and people knock on your door and say, well the neighbor is hopeless, but to save the environment you need to stop showering every day and get your usage down to 5 units. Have you made a difference? Technically, sure. But ultimately (1) you have drastically reduced your own quality of life for no measurable gain and (2) the real problem (next door) stays unsolved.
The only way out of the tragedy of the commons is strict regulation, not "ignore the bad actors and do the right thing yourself".
The only way out of the tragedy of the commons is strict regulation, not "ignore the bad actors and do the right thing yourself".
Indeed. Individuals doing their bit is great. But structural problems (such as the undue influence of the fossil fuel lobby) need structural solutions (such as tax and legislation). A change of culture can also work, but that can take a long time.
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I see a lot of local (blue state) reactionary stuff spurred by other (red) states absolutely horrifying behavior. We don't have their self-inflicted problems but suddenly we need to implement extreme solutions to our non-problems because the other guys have lost their minds.
The 5-ton pickup thing is a serious issue and comes with nasty political feedback loops for gas prices. Climate denial and pro-pollution (rolling coal on cyclists) is like a virtue and point of pride for those morons.
The 5-ton pickup thing is a serious issue and comes with nasty political feedback loops for gas prices. Climate denial and pro-pollution (rolling coal on cyclists) is like a virtue and point of pride for those morons.
Successful long term propaganda + political, auto and meat industry advertising aiming to build identity around use of product lines work. Defunding schools and changing curriculums also works. Even on normal people.
I’m just personally frustrated by the disposable shopping bag ban, because every time I go to the store, I typically come back with a bunch of different food items in single-use, disposable plastic or glass packages. What is the point of banning bags, if I still buy mustard in a plastic squeeze bottle?
And stores will happily sell me a cheap HDPE plastic bag, which happens because from time to time I forget to bring my own bag, and then I buy an extra package of LDPE garbage bags because I don’t have grocery bags I can use for small garbage cans any more.
It just seems like this is not even a step forward, and there are big sources of plastic we just don’t even care to deal with because it involves too much money.
And stores will happily sell me a cheap HDPE plastic bag, which happens because from time to time I forget to bring my own bag, and then I buy an extra package of LDPE garbage bags because I don’t have grocery bags I can use for small garbage cans any more.
It just seems like this is not even a step forward, and there are big sources of plastic we just don’t even care to deal with because it involves too much money.
Plastic bags have a special place in our hearts because of their unique characteristics as litter.
With a small effort we cut our plastic use so low that sometimes on trash night I find the garbage can is still empty.
It's not that we don't buy single use plastic (good luck with potato chips), but we make an effort. Buying bulk and reusing plastic bags is key. If there's a glass option, buy that. And does the plastic garbage can need a plastic bag, really? Or can you use the same bag multiple times?
But it doesn't matter if I do it. Or even if 10% of the people do it. Won't save the world. Large scale bans are the only answer, and good luck with that.
With a small effort we cut our plastic use so low that sometimes on trash night I find the garbage can is still empty.
It's not that we don't buy single use plastic (good luck with potato chips), but we make an effort. Buying bulk and reusing plastic bags is key. If there's a glass option, buy that. And does the plastic garbage can need a plastic bag, really? Or can you use the same bag multiple times?
But it doesn't matter if I do it. Or even if 10% of the people do it. Won't save the world. Large scale bans are the only answer, and good luck with that.
> If there's a glass option, buy that.
Is that better? Or is it worse?
From estimates that I’ve seen, the glass bottle has 5x the carbon footprint of the corresponding plastic bottle. Glass can be recycled but it takes a lot of energy. Most products are not available in anything but single-use packaging.
I’m all for large-scale bans, but the large-scale bans should be designed to have a positive impact, one large enough to justify the cost in some sense. I am concerned that the ban on single-use plastic shopping bags has, perhaps, had a negative impact on the environment.
Is that better? Or is it worse?
From estimates that I’ve seen, the glass bottle has 5x the carbon footprint of the corresponding plastic bottle. Glass can be recycled but it takes a lot of energy. Most products are not available in anything but single-use packaging.
I’m all for large-scale bans, but the large-scale bans should be designed to have a positive impact, one large enough to justify the cost in some sense. I am concerned that the ban on single-use plastic shopping bags has, perhaps, had a negative impact on the environment.
Good points... which devil to choose...?
The single use plastic bag bans are a drop in the bucket compared to overall plastic waste generation. In my view, plastic grocery bags have become a popular point of regulation because they are notorious for accumulating in public spaces, notably parking lots, parks, and other places that city leaders are pressured to keep clean. So long as plastic items end up in waste receptacles, it’s out of sight, out of mind.
> People refuse to acknowledge that their conservation efforts for a year are undone by some guy in Texas in five minutes
The conservation efforts of the majority of the world are undone when one nation accounts for 30% of the global CO2 emissions. No amount of paper straws or reusable coffee cups will undo the coal burning Shenhua Group does every year.
The conservation efforts of the majority of the world are undone when one nation accounts for 30% of the global CO2 emissions. No amount of paper straws or reusable coffee cups will undo the coal burning Shenhua Group does every year.
Especially horrifying since that 30% supports twice the number of people it would in the US. If they lived like Floridians it'd be closer to 50%.
Don't think like that. Consider how much worse off we would be if no effort was made at all. The aim is to reduce our global footprint, not to balance it with the biggest polluter. If every single country kept on using resources like it was 1999 nothing would change. The fact that at least some measures are taken, and that these measures are getting adopted in many countries puts pressure on the laggards.
Texas produces the most renewable energy of any state, so the world doesn't map as cleanly onto right and wrong as you assume.
Most in aggregate. They're 22nd for percentage of use coming from renewable which is less laudable considering the state is ginormous by landmass and has perhaps the best opportunity for generating renewable energy of any state given its location and said size.
Agree on most points, but the air conditioning thing misses a bit of nuance: it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick.
Before I moved down here I knew that in general hot == more living things (more energy -> more plants -> more food for the not plant stuff etc), but it's crazy how fast stuff grows. If someone leaves their house for the summer and doesn't have someone come by and trim the yard then nature will reclaim their house by the time they get back.
Before I moved down here I knew that in general hot == more living things (more energy -> more plants -> more food for the not plant stuff etc), but it's crazy how fast stuff grows. If someone leaves their house for the summer and doesn't have someone come by and trim the yard then nature will reclaim their house by the time they get back.
Yes. I read a tweet a while back -- which appears to check out -- that the biggest city in Florida in 1900 was Key West, population 17,000, and Key West is not even on the mainland. The alternative to air conditioning (not to mention modern mosquito suppression) is that people simply would not live in Florida.
As you note, it's not an option to take it easy in the summer because otherwise the plants would cover everything and the roads would be impassable. Somebody has to mow it, and they need a place to cool off.
For another example, the author notes that the fruits are wrapped in plastic, but I don't think he realizes how much faster food spoils in Florida than the UK where he's from. Every bad apple that has to be thrown away is another apple which needs to be trucked in.
As you note, it's not an option to take it easy in the summer because otherwise the plants would cover everything and the roads would be impassable. Somebody has to mow it, and they need a place to cool off.
For another example, the author notes that the fruits are wrapped in plastic, but I don't think he realizes how much faster food spoils in Florida than the UK where he's from. Every bad apple that has to be thrown away is another apple which needs to be trucked in.
Maybe the conclusion should be that people shouldn’t live in Florida because it just takes too much resources.
In that respect DeSantis could be seen as an eco-warrior in disguise: make Florida politically so completely unattractive to live in that people will leave in droves, reducing the state's carbon footprint. A shame that his policies are just as likely to attract a certain type of person too…
It’s kind of funny that you think that DeSantis has made Florida “politically unattractive” to where people will “leave in droves” when over the last few years there has been such an influx of people to Florida escaping New York, New Jersey, and Illinois to Florida primarily due to excessive taxes and their Covid politics.
In my neighborhood, there aren’t many of us long time multi-decade Florida residents. Most of my neighbors have been Florida residents for less than 5 years and many since Covid. And in my experience in my neighborhood, the types of people that his policies attracted are the type of people who simply got tired of the kind of policies in their former states and municipalities that they perceived were hurting their kids education…regardless of their political leanings. Many of my new neighbors lean left politically, but moved here because our schools were open.
Certainly not saying every DeSantis policy is a winner or popular, but when other states were shut down, killing small businesses, and watching their kids fall behind in education, Florida was open. People noticed and it appealed to them.
In my neighborhood, there aren’t many of us long time multi-decade Florida residents. Most of my neighbors have been Florida residents for less than 5 years and many since Covid. And in my experience in my neighborhood, the types of people that his policies attracted are the type of people who simply got tired of the kind of policies in their former states and municipalities that they perceived were hurting their kids education…regardless of their political leanings. Many of my new neighbors lean left politically, but moved here because our schools were open.
Certainly not saying every DeSantis policy is a winner or popular, but when other states were shut down, killing small businesses, and watching their kids fall behind in education, Florida was open. People noticed and it appealed to them.
> Maybe the conclusion should be that people shouldn’t live in Florida because it just takes too much resources.
For what it’s worth, I am in Florida and I use very little energy to make my house (2200sqft) comfortable between mid-October and May. I have a highly energy efficient home and between May and October my energy bill runs less than $150. My inside temp rarely goes above 75 degrees. My AC rarely runs at all between 8am and 4pm and then sporadically in the afternoon, but will run a bit a night to essentially “charge the house”.
For what it’s worth, I am in Florida and I use very little energy to make my house (2200sqft) comfortable between mid-October and May. I have a highly energy efficient home and between May and October my energy bill runs less than $150. My inside temp rarely goes above 75 degrees. My AC rarely runs at all between 8am and 4pm and then sporadically in the afternoon, but will run a bit a night to essentially “charge the house”.
So was your home designed specifically for energy efficiency? What energy effeciency features does it have? Do you have issues with condensation from the high humidity?
Yes, it was specifically built to achieve the energy star rating. High efficiency windows, hvac/fresh air system, hybrid water heater, higher r-value insulation, well sealed, etc…. We also opted for tile throughout the whole house which seems to feel cooler on my bare feet and allows me to set the thermostat during the day high enough that our AC generally doesn’t run until later in the day.
Condensation and indoor humidity is a non issue, the AC does a good job keeping things nice and dry.
I have friends with similarly sized (older) homes whose electric bills run about 2-2.5x ours.
Condensation and indoor humidity is a non issue, the AC does a good job keeping things nice and dry.
I have friends with similarly sized (older) homes whose electric bills run about 2-2.5x ours.
Cool (in every sense of the word!). I suppose there is zero chance of that being mandated for new homes in Florida?
I think the market is demanding it. Most new home builders are touting their energy efficiency.
That is part of the climate reality. Either fusion breakthroughs or a warming to nuclear energy makes the energy point moot, or we have to start living more densely in parts of the country conducive to human life. Economics will make it untenable to live in Florida, we're seeing the start with insurers leaving the state altogether. No insurance = no lender for your mortgage = housing becomes worthless.
>For another example, the author notes that the fruits are wrapped in plastic, but I don't think he realizes how much faster food spoils in Florida than the UK where he's from. Every bad apple that has to be thrown away is another apple which needs to be trucked in.
The apples were in a 24x7 air conditioned hotel. They would last at least as long as UK apples.
The apples were in a 24x7 air conditioned hotel. They would last at least as long as UK apples.
Author here. I was only staying in hotels and obviously it is a lot quicker to cool a hotel room than a whole house. However passive cooling of houses has been a thing in hot parts of the world for hundreds (thousands) of years. As far a I can tell, it isn't a thing in Florida. Why? No incentive for the builders?
Humidity. Passive cooling works great in arid climates.
I guess condensation is an issue with passive cooling in hot humid climates. But I did a search online and it seems there are quite a few effective strategies for cooling in hot humid countries that don't involve aircon. The house has to be designed with that in mind though.
Given the power costs of running AC non-stop I assure you most Floridians would jump on some kind of passive option. What strategies did you find that are effective in humid climates?
You would think they would jump on solar panels as well, but apparently not. Someone else commented that this might be partly down to hurricanes and insurance. Here are some articles I found from a quick search:
https://www.novatr.com/blog/passive-design-strategies-for-wa... https://ijmme.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40712-014-0... https://thefifthestate.com.au/housing-2/ways-to-keep-cool-wi... https://uplevelgreen.com/passive-solar-cooling-in-hot-humid-...
I've only had time to skim them.
Even if these strategies don't do away with the need for aircon, they might substantially reduce it,
https://www.novatr.com/blog/passive-design-strategies-for-wa... https://ijmme.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40712-014-0... https://thefifthestate.com.au/housing-2/ways-to-keep-cool-wi... https://uplevelgreen.com/passive-solar-cooling-in-hot-humid-...
I've only had time to skim them.
Even if these strategies don't do away with the need for aircon, they might substantially reduce it,
Except for some of the more exotic ones (phase change wax cooling) these are frequently used in Florida and you still need AC, certainly during the summer. Don’t get me wrong, bad dumb Americans and especially Floridians and all that, but this place is strictly uninhabitable without AC.
Coming from a temperate country it is hard to comprehend how hot and humid Florida is in August without personally experiencing it.
For some intuition, ocean surface temperatures peaked over 100°F this summer. The exact numbers are somewhat debatable, but "the ocean cannot cool a human" is not.
The best map I can find is actually from the Washington Post as it shows the measurements in context.
Article (paywalled): https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/25/florida-re...
Map (direct link): https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.c...
The best map I can find is actually from the Washington Post as it shows the measurements in context.
Article (paywalled): https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/25/florida-re...
Map (direct link): https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.c...
Actually it turns out that was a baseless claim made by alarmist legacy media.
Florida Bay is a very shallow estuary basically inside Florida, not “the ocean”.
https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2023/08/06/being-boiled-al...
Florida Bay is a very shallow estuary basically inside Florida, not “the ocean”.
https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2023/08/06/being-boiled-al...
NB/ Designing your house to improve ventilation might be a problem during a hurricane!
Maybe that's just not a place for large-scale human settlements and we should accept that instead of wasting energy on a lost cause?
There's nuance there too. I'm don't think I've ever walked into a hotel in the US without immediately having to turn down the AC; 30°F below ambient temperatures is not needed for mildew prevention.
Apparently the logic is that it's cheaper and uses less energy to maintain a low temperature than to let the temperature and humidity rise then have to pull it down again. I can believe that: dry air is a much better insulator than humid air, and if you want it as dry as possible, that means going as cold as possible.
yup- in florida, you need to leave the AC on, even if just at a higher ~80f temp while on vacation
>>it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick.
I wonder how humans survived there before the invention of electricity and air con!
I wonder how humans survived there before the invention of electricity and air con!
Do you actually wonder? I figured it was pretty obvious - humans are able to survive under much worse conditions than we enjoy today. They're less happy and don't live as long, but humans can survive under conditions you'd probably find appalling. Is this a notion you're unfamiliar with?
Well, we didn't mind the mold and mildew as much, for starters.
> it's so hot and humid here that if you left a room for a significant amount of time with no cooling, that room is likely to become uninhabitable from mold and mildew real quick.
Indeed. It blew my mind when my wife and I took a vacation to Tampa in July.
Without the AC running full blast all the time, the tile floor of our hotel (being cooler than the rest of the room) developed standing water. Like, walking through the kitchen area was splish splash splish and then a crash when we would slip and fall.
We actually did try not running the AC while we were out and about, but it made it hazardous. To the hotel's credit, the AC was not running when we checked in.
Indeed. It blew my mind when my wife and I took a vacation to Tampa in July.
Without the AC running full blast all the time, the tile floor of our hotel (being cooler than the rest of the room) developed standing water. Like, walking through the kitchen area was splish splash splish and then a crash when we would slip and fall.
We actually did try not running the AC while we were out and about, but it made it hazardous. To the hotel's credit, the AC was not running when we checked in.
Speaking as an American, for God's sake don't lump me in with Florida! Also, stop pointing out Florida's problems, it only encourages them to double down like an angry teenager (not actual advice, shame the idiots).
Honestly trying to paint all Americans based on any one state is incredibly myopic. Practically every one of his anecdotes doesn't hold true in my home town: either there are policies encouraging/outlawing those things (e.g. plastic bags) or it's a cultural no-no.
Honestly trying to paint all Americans based on any one state is incredibly myopic. Practically every one of his anecdotes doesn't hold true in my home town: either there are policies encouraging/outlawing those things (e.g. plastic bags) or it's a cultural no-no.
As a Czech who has recently been to Texas, I completely agree with the article, and it was exactly what I witnessed.
At this point, Texas is just Florida with impractical boots and hats. I'm not sure what you were expecting. Go walk around NY or DC or something.
I did, as a matter of fact, walk around NY and DC, around 15 years ago. Coincidentally, I have also been to (central) Florida. All of these were work trips, with a bit of vacation here and there.
So yeah, I get your point, in DC and NY people do walk and use public transport, elsewhere, it seemed similar, except Texas was bigger (even for walking). But I have that in Prague too.
I don't think the point of these articles is to dis on anyone, but really, point out collective procrastination we have towards climate change.
So yeah, I get your point, in DC and NY people do walk and use public transport, elsewhere, it seemed similar, except Texas was bigger (even for walking). But I have that in Prague too.
I don't think the point of these articles is to dis on anyone, but really, point out collective procrastination we have towards climate change.
Even that breaks down in different parts of Texas. Go to Austin and see what you think.
Obligatory:
https://youtu.be/JREkqCvLzSo
Obligatory:
https://youtu.be/JREkqCvLzSo
Depends on where you are in Texas. The boots and hats aren't impractical everywhere.
Also the boots are freakin' comfortable.
Also the boots are freakin' comfortable.
Author here. I was trying hard to not to make this article read as America-hating. Obviously the USA is a massive and diverse country and, personally, I think there is a lot to like and admire about American and Americans. But the fact is that Americans, on average, are pumping more carbon into the atmosphere per capita than nearly anyone else and a lot of it seems completely unnecessary.
BTW "Ship of fools" was intended to refer to the human race generally, rather than Floridians or Americans in particular.
The average American uses 3 times more energy than the average European so we just lump you right in. :-)
Not true. US uses ~2 x as much as the average European per capita (but less than Canadians.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_co...
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/energy-consumpt...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_co...
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/energy-consumpt...
Wish there were median statistics there, not to lump your common man with your super consumers.
Why is Canada worse than the US? Is it heating in the cold winters or the fossil fuel mining?
It's only a little worse (14t/yr/pc vs 13t/yr/pc). Oil and gas extraction related emissions is the primary driver of that difference.
It’s Terrible nonetheless
Also, much of the article is about waste in the hotel, which certainly seemed egregious but hotels are horrifyingly bad about that stuff in general. While we certainly use a lot of plastic (too much) in the US, I would not extrapolate from hotel waste to the rest of the country.
> Heaven forbid that you should have to wait 2 minutes for the air con to cool the room down.
No one wants to sit in a damp, cool room, nor do they want the mold and mildew effects that would result from the overly quick removal of the sensible heat (temperature) without the accompanying removal of latent heat (humidity).
No one wants to sit in a damp, cool room, nor do they want the mold and mildew effects that would result from the overly quick removal of the sensible heat (temperature) without the accompanying removal of latent heat (humidity).
There's a 0% chance of a successful colony, by any definition of successful, on Mars in the next century. If we, as a species, cannot avoid destroying the climate that birthed us over millions of years we have exactly 0% chance of surviving one that is completely inhospitable to life.
Not that I have a better estimate, but I'm curious about where you got that 0% from
You can't learn rocket science if you are too retarded to wipe your ass. So that 0% came from this unwiped ass. Mars colony is impossible, humans are just less retarded monkeys.
It's an irradiated wasteland
There's no chance of a colony of any kind. The bare minimum requirement would be to end dependence on shipping critical materials from Earth, and good luck with making that happen in the next century.
I'm not following. Are you saying that a colony by definition has to be self-sustaining? Why?
At this stage of globalization, what part of Earth is self-sustaining? How certain are you that if the US was suddenly blocked from importing any goods that it would not descend into chaos?
I'm not saying it has to be by definition, but the costs and complications in regularly transporting oxygen, water, food and everything else in cargo ships from Earth simply makes such a colony unrealistic even for a very small number of permanent settlers.
It's funny how the author in the same paragraph notes that solar power isn't common in the "Sunshine State" of Florida, and then also points out the problem of hurricanes. Turns out, insurance companies won't compensate you for replacement cost of the panels, only cash value (which is constantly dropping). That is, if they cover them at all.
Buying new panels every 7-10 years is not a worthwhile investment.
Buying new panels every 7-10 years is not a worthwhile investment.
Insurance and solar is a real issue.
If you put solar on roof, then insurance does not cover roof damage incase of hurricane.
Also with solar subsidies come the scams. Most people are skeptical of solar in Florida.
Florida is no longer a purple swing state. It is a solid red state with pockets of blue in major cities.
Florida has enough cheap land to power all of their day-time energy use from solar though.
I loved to see some small solar farms in Lakeland that locals built.
There is hope.
If you put solar on roof, then insurance does not cover roof damage incase of hurricane.
Also with solar subsidies come the scams. Most people are skeptical of solar in Florida.
Florida is no longer a purple swing state. It is a solid red state with pockets of blue in major cities.
Florida has enough cheap land to power all of their day-time energy use from solar though.
I loved to see some small solar farms in Lakeland that locals built.
There is hope.
>If you put solar on roof, then insurance does not cover roof damage incase of hurricane.
Do solar panels make a roof more suseptible to hurricane damage?
Do solar panels make a roof more suseptible to hurricane damage?
Yep.
Unless they're mounted absolutely flush to the existing roof with no way for the ind to get underneath then a solar panel is large flat sailcloth that gets hurricane force winds underneath it and then exerts an upward pulling | tearing force on the anchor points.
Depending on those, you can see some serious roof destroying damage (followed by a rain soaked interior).
Or, extra effort (money, time, resources) needs to be expended from the outset making the setup cyclone proof (err, sorry, hurricane .. it's cyclones for us her in tropical Australia).
Unless they're mounted absolutely flush to the existing roof with no way for the ind to get underneath then a solar panel is large flat sailcloth that gets hurricane force winds underneath it and then exerts an upward pulling | tearing force on the anchor points.
Depending on those, you can see some serious roof destroying damage (followed by a rain soaked interior).
Or, extra effort (money, time, resources) needs to be expended from the outset making the setup cyclone proof (err, sorry, hurricane .. it's cyclones for us her in tropical Australia).
Interesting. Presumably this is less of an issue if the house is design with solar panels (and hurricanes/cyclones) in mind?
"Cyclone proof" standards in the Pilbara (Western Australia) would require solid frames on the panels solidly connected directly (through roofing material) to steel roof trusses with multiple strong connections to steel frame wall panels which themselves are deep bolted into a thick concrete slab.
Hospitals are built surrounded by ramped up packed earth bunkers that roof objects (evaporative coolers, venting stacks, solar panels) barely poke above .. that way the wind tends to lift over the entire (one or two stoey) hospital and flying objects (ripped off tin roofs, fencing wire, tree branches) don't directly hit the main building.
The building code there appears to magnitudes above the 'typical' ripped apart buildings seen in USofA Hurricane Alley damage shots (which typically seem to be tinfoil trailer type buildings and light construction) .. to be fair the US does have buildings that look to be built to withstand hurricanes, the difference seems to be that not all buildings are required to have that as a minimum code.
Hospitals are built surrounded by ramped up packed earth bunkers that roof objects (evaporative coolers, venting stacks, solar panels) barely poke above .. that way the wind tends to lift over the entire (one or two stoey) hospital and flying objects (ripped off tin roofs, fencing wire, tree branches) don't directly hit the main building.
The building code there appears to magnitudes above the 'typical' ripped apart buildings seen in USofA Hurricane Alley damage shots (which typically seem to be tinfoil trailer type buildings and light construction) .. to be fair the US does have buildings that look to be built to withstand hurricanes, the difference seems to be that not all buildings are required to have that as a minimum code.
There are great, even preferable, options that aren't rooftop solar.
> Perhaps cyclists had tried, but they had all been run over.
I'm an American cyclist, and I'm trying to do my part commuting to work by bike.
But I got whacked in the elbow a few weeks ago by the mirror of a car who was offended by having to slow down briefly and go around me... I'd say that 75% of drivers are conscientious, crossing over when there's a gap in the opposite lane to give me more than the 5 feet of space required by local laws (3 feet required by state law). Another 20% don't have a clue what to do around a cyclist and either white-knuckle past me close by, with a shouted "sorry" with their wheel just on the centerline (and no one in the opposite lane) follow a car's length behind my wheel for a mile (at 15-20 mph on 35, 45, or 55mph roads, building a traffic jam of frustrated other motorists who are far more likely to drive aggressively).
Some 5% are actively hostile. I've been whacked in the butt and shoulder by mirrors of people trying to run me off the road, had half-empty beer cans thrown at me, been enveloped many times in the black smoke off of one of many diesel mall-crawlers with the tuner kit that allows them to "roll coal" when they step on the throttle. Some shout "get off the road" as if my road bike would work in the ditch.
I think it's what needs to be done, so I'm doing my part because I'm an able, healthy adult, but it's definitely an activist/enthusiast thing, not a reasonable solution for the vast majority of my state who use 5,000 lbs of steel to move 200 lbs of human to work and back. I will say that I'm happy to see more e-bikes on the handful of trails in the area (yes, even when driven by people who don't know proper etiquette and who are using throttle-only on trails that are supposed to be non-motorized), because it means you don't have to have a VO2 max of 50+ mL/kg/min or an FTP of 3 W/kg to get out of the car.
I've been reading "The Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's inspiring, but what strikes me the most is how unreasonable it is. Floridians and Americans and Europeans alike simply do not respond rationally to the reality of climate change.
PS:
> Moving to Mars is a pipedream for 99.9999% of the population.
I think you're missing a few nines there, multiplying by 8 billion suggests that 8,000 humans could reasonably live on Mars. I'd love to see a manned mission of 2-5 astronauts (supported by a nation-state or international effort) get some science done on Mars within my lifetime, but the idea of an elites-only glass dome city being erected on Mars for billionaires to run away to while Earth wastes away is not even close to reasonable.
I'm an American cyclist, and I'm trying to do my part commuting to work by bike.
But I got whacked in the elbow a few weeks ago by the mirror of a car who was offended by having to slow down briefly and go around me... I'd say that 75% of drivers are conscientious, crossing over when there's a gap in the opposite lane to give me more than the 5 feet of space required by local laws (3 feet required by state law). Another 20% don't have a clue what to do around a cyclist and either white-knuckle past me close by, with a shouted "sorry" with their wheel just on the centerline (and no one in the opposite lane) follow a car's length behind my wheel for a mile (at 15-20 mph on 35, 45, or 55mph roads, building a traffic jam of frustrated other motorists who are far more likely to drive aggressively).
Some 5% are actively hostile. I've been whacked in the butt and shoulder by mirrors of people trying to run me off the road, had half-empty beer cans thrown at me, been enveloped many times in the black smoke off of one of many diesel mall-crawlers with the tuner kit that allows them to "roll coal" when they step on the throttle. Some shout "get off the road" as if my road bike would work in the ditch.
I think it's what needs to be done, so I'm doing my part because I'm an able, healthy adult, but it's definitely an activist/enthusiast thing, not a reasonable solution for the vast majority of my state who use 5,000 lbs of steel to move 200 lbs of human to work and back. I will say that I'm happy to see more e-bikes on the handful of trails in the area (yes, even when driven by people who don't know proper etiquette and who are using throttle-only on trails that are supposed to be non-motorized), because it means you don't have to have a VO2 max of 50+ mL/kg/min or an FTP of 3 W/kg to get out of the car.
I've been reading "The Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's inspiring, but what strikes me the most is how unreasonable it is. Floridians and Americans and Europeans alike simply do not respond rationally to the reality of climate change.
PS:
> Moving to Mars is a pipedream for 99.9999% of the population.
I think you're missing a few nines there, multiplying by 8 billion suggests that 8,000 humans could reasonably live on Mars. I'd love to see a manned mission of 2-5 astronauts (supported by a nation-state or international effort) get some science done on Mars within my lifetime, but the idea of an elites-only glass dome city being erected on Mars for billionaires to run away to while Earth wastes away is not even close to reasonable.
Anecdata: I used to cycle and run a lot, even went through a phase of biking to work ~14 miles.
It seems to be that the wealthier the area you're in, the more people think you as a pedestrian should yield to them, even if you are in a crosswalk at a stop sign and they are trying to blow the stop sign.
Less wealthy areas, people watch out and seem more courteous of cyclists and people on foot.
It seems to be that the wealthier the area you're in, the more people think you as a pedestrian should yield to them, even if you are in a crosswalk at a stop sign and they are trying to blow the stop sign.
Less wealthy areas, people watch out and seem more courteous of cyclists and people on foot.
I'm not sure that's accurate across the board. I live in a very violent, very poor area of the city and the drivers here are very aggressive and rude towards cyclists.
There were some scientific studies done that support exactly what you suggest. People in expensive cars are less likely to yield. However the research may have been done by some of the behaviour economists recently busted for cheating. ;0)
> the idea of an elites-only glass dome city being erected on Mars for billionaires to run away to while Earth wastes away is not even close to reasonable.
Wait, I thought that was the plan to get rid of them? They can have their red wasteland and we can finally have peace on earth.
Wait, I thought that was the plan to get rid of them? They can have their red wasteland and we can finally have peace on earth.
Douglas Adams didn't mention billionaires, but they should definiately be on the B Ark as well.
https://everything2.com/title/B+Ark
BTW "Don't look up" is worth a watch. Although it seems almost as much a documentary as a parody.
BTW "Don't look up" is worth a watch. Although it seems almost as much a documentary as a parody.
Didn’t that movie push conspiracy theorists as the only ones to believe and trust? If I remember well the media, government and scientific establishment were all onboard the “don’t look up” train. Only two crazy mistrusted psychos running around telling everybody “the end is nigh”.
Not sure this was the best message in this day and age. Pretty funny movie otherwise.
Not sure this was the best message in this day and age. Pretty funny movie otherwise.
>Didn’t that movie push conspiracy theorists as the only ones to believe and trust?
That isn't the message I took from it.
That isn't the message I took from it.
I'm curious: what was the message you took from it? Who should you trust when all the media, politicians, President, scientists, billionaires - they all tell you something. And only a couple of disgruntled, cancelled ex-scientists on YouTube tell you something else.
Who are we supposed to trust? Hollywood?!
Who are we supposed to trust? Hollywood?!
The message I took away, is that we are screwed as long as we continue to let those with power make decisions based off their short term interests. 'genius' billionaires especially.
I think you misunderstand human nature. The problem isn't them. They problem is us. That is, it's humans in general, not just the billionaires.
If all the billionaires left for Mars, we would not have peace on earth. We'd have a bunch of people fighting tooth and nail to be the ones to replace them.
If all the billionaires left for Mars, we would not have peace on earth. We'd have a bunch of people fighting tooth and nail to be the ones to replace them.
I think you misunderstand humor :)
Ah, I see. Well, there was no /s tag, and I've seen similar views here stated seriously - that it's all the elites' fault, and if we could get rid of them, we'd have paradise. So... yes, I misunderstood.
As a Brit in the USA, I find drivers here much less agreeable to cyclists. They will often drive aggressively towards me and there is an awful lot of honking.
One driver caused me to come off badly the other day and mash my face into the road pretty badly.
One driver caused me to come off badly the other day and mash my face into the road pretty badly.
> I think it's what needs to be done, so I'm doing my part because I'm an able, healthy adult, but it's definitely an activist/enthusiast thing, not a reasonable solution for the vast majority of my state who use 5,000 lbs of steel to move 200 lbs of human to work and back.
Thank you for being part of the solution. I am 100% sincere, not facetious. This is a tragedy of the commons, and american leadership has no courage for top down intervention. The only thing left to do is that the good ones will wrestle the solution out of the ground with their own bare hands.
Thank you for being part of the solution. I am 100% sincere, not facetious. This is a tragedy of the commons, and american leadership has no courage for top down intervention. The only thing left to do is that the good ones will wrestle the solution out of the ground with their own bare hands.
Also a cyclist / commuter. I spend 10-12+ hours a week on my bike. It's wild out there. I follow all the laws, including Colorado's safety stop law. And I get yelled at constantly. Meanwhile every Ram 3500/F-350 that's rolling coal and jacked 3 miles in the air is going 95MPH in a 45, blasting through red lights and stop signs and turning right in front of me. I also love how I'm simultaneously an "elitist cyclist" and "too poor to drive" I get both of those yelled at me all the time, sometimes from the same person. There's also a clear "othering" of cyclists campaign going on. Everyone from Barstool sports to rightwing commentators are joking constantly about how it would be fun to run over cyclists, how cyclists deserve to die, etc...
Just yesterday, I was riding through the town of Morrison in the foothills outside Denver heading towards the mountains. I came up to a red light, stopped and then continued because it was clear. A few seconds later a Camaro with a ~65YO guy pulls up next to me and this guy is fucking livid. Red face, yelling, and the first thing I hear clearly is "I'm gonna smear you on this bumper f***t." I ignore and continue on and wee hit another red light, he's in the left turn lane. He continues to berate me, I ignore him, and he turns and I continue on. But I see that he turns left but immediately pulls an illegal u-turn into the grass and is using the oncoming traffic exit to re-enter the road. I forget to mention that a cop was also at the last light next to me. I just stopped, waved frantically at the cop and started pointing at the wacko. Thankfully, the cop stopped. Had they not been there not sure what I would've done.
Just yesterday, I was riding through the town of Morrison in the foothills outside Denver heading towards the mountains. I came up to a red light, stopped and then continued because it was clear. A few seconds later a Camaro with a ~65YO guy pulls up next to me and this guy is fucking livid. Red face, yelling, and the first thing I hear clearly is "I'm gonna smear you on this bumper f***t." I ignore and continue on and wee hit another red light, he's in the left turn lane. He continues to berate me, I ignore him, and he turns and I continue on. But I see that he turns left but immediately pulls an illegal u-turn into the grass and is using the oncoming traffic exit to re-enter the road. I forget to mention that a cop was also at the last light next to me. I just stopped, waved frantically at the cop and started pointing at the wacko. Thankfully, the cop stopped. Had they not been there not sure what I would've done.
There is a way well known by governments which can implement quickly and rapidly a change in behavior of all actors involved in economy : taxation.
It's has been the case for centuries, if not thousand years.
You give taxe incentive (subside or taxe reduction) for favoured behaviors, and higher taxation level to decourage unfavoured behavior.
Meat taxation could be an interesting subject of study as it cover a large range of greenhouse gaz footprint according to the specie the meat come from and a majority of people considers it as an essential item.
Cow meat is, by far, the worst offender by pound of meat produced. It is also the meat which requires the largest amount of vegetal protein in order to produce animal protein (1/10), which is by itself an obvious downside considering the challenge climate change will bring to crop production.
On the lowest end of the scale, there is chicken, which is around a quarter of cow footprint by pound of meat produced.
Banning meat altogether is a no-go inside any democracy as the party in power would be out of a job at the next election. But suppressing taxes on or subsidising consumption of chicken meat while taxing progressivelly cow meat out of existence could have a larger support from general population.
The same mecanism of tax increase and tax incentive, according to ecological footprint, could be applied to every item category in the economy.
It's has been the case for centuries, if not thousand years.
You give taxe incentive (subside or taxe reduction) for favoured behaviors, and higher taxation level to decourage unfavoured behavior.
Meat taxation could be an interesting subject of study as it cover a large range of greenhouse gaz footprint according to the specie the meat come from and a majority of people considers it as an essential item.
Cow meat is, by far, the worst offender by pound of meat produced. It is also the meat which requires the largest amount of vegetal protein in order to produce animal protein (1/10), which is by itself an obvious downside considering the challenge climate change will bring to crop production.
On the lowest end of the scale, there is chicken, which is around a quarter of cow footprint by pound of meat produced.
Banning meat altogether is a no-go inside any democracy as the party in power would be out of a job at the next election. But suppressing taxes on or subsidising consumption of chicken meat while taxing progressivelly cow meat out of existence could have a larger support from general population.
The same mecanism of tax increase and tax incentive, according to ecological footprint, could be applied to every item category in the economy.
> You can even eat your breakfast in your car.
What is most shocking to me in regards to "using your car for everything" is those people robbing shops and supermarkets using their own cars, with license plates on. And they are very good cars to my Latin American standards. Some of them are classified as luxury cars where I live. Around here, robbers don't have cars, so they have to steal one first and then use it to commit other crimes.
What is most shocking to me in regards to "using your car for everything" is those people robbing shops and supermarkets using their own cars, with license plates on. And they are very good cars to my Latin American standards. Some of them are classified as luxury cars where I live. Around here, robbers don't have cars, so they have to steal one first and then use it to commit other crimes.
Vehicles in robberies are almost always stolen in America as well, usually abandoned to be found by the poor owner later.
Did you read the article? We're talking about mass migration, major crop failure and death by the millions and your take away is petty thiefs?
Why would you go to Florida
It is legitimately unethical to spend money in Florida right now
Hahaha what?
Right?!
> My 17 year old son is interested in rocketry and my wife is interested in wildlife
So he took them to Fort Myers?!?
> My 17 year old son is interested in rocketry and my wife is interested in wildlife
So he took them to Fort Myers?!?
Author here. We did a circuit from Tampa->Everglades->Cape Canaveral. It passed through Fort Myers.
> If you are too poor to own a car, hard luck.
I understand that a lot of Floridans live in gated golf communities, and get around them on golf-carts.
I understand that a lot of Floridans live in gated golf communities, and get around them on golf-carts.
The denizens of The Villages are not too poor to own cars.
Yeah; but they live there so they don't need to.
I know of just one old couple from The Villages; they own a car (naturally, they're wealthy Americans), but the only time they use it is to pick up a visitor from the airport.
I know of just one old couple from The Villages; they own a car (naturally, they're wealthy Americans), but the only time they use it is to pick up a visitor from the airport.
A friend was telling me about the problem an American had trying to find “grass fed” beef in a UK supermarket. The shop assistant was quite confused at the question “I can’t find any beef labeled grass fed. Do you have that?” Er, what else would it be fed on? (Only 4% of beef in the US is grass fed). It’s basically 100% everywhere else.
The UK is no better. Heavy use of aircon, constantly increasing, parents driving their children to school in SUVs/4x4s; large tv screens replacing poster boards, buildings built for the whole purpose of tv advertising (see the two-storey screen walls on the inside and outside of the Outernet buildings near Tottenham Court Road).
Lots of plastic use and one of the burger chains won the stupid award by removing drinking straws and offering a paid reusable metal drinking straw (painted) with a metal cleaning brush, sold in a cardboard box.
No matter how small the item we order online it will arrive wrapped in lots of plastic and cardboard that goes immediately to the landfill.
Lots of plastic use and one of the burger chains won the stupid award by removing drinking straws and offering a paid reusable metal drinking straw (painted) with a metal cleaning brush, sold in a cardboard box.
No matter how small the item we order online it will arrive wrapped in lots of plastic and cardboard that goes immediately to the landfill.
Florida seems to have about 2x per capita CO2 emissions [1][2] so there's a fair bit of difference.
UK's climate sins in oil production might swing the judgement though.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299198/co2-emissions-pe...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
UK's climate sins in oil production might swing the judgement though.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299198/co2-emissions-pe...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
We are far from perfect in the UK, for sure. But we do have a lot more solar, a lot more public transport and a lot less SUVs. And our Carbon footprint is about a third of the average American.
He’s clearly wrong about one thing:
> Moving to Mars is a pipedream for 99.9999% of the population.
It’s actually a pipe dream for 100% of the population.
Slightly more seriously, I think he’s too pessimistic about the impact of renewable energy generation (contra his observations, Florida installed more solar capacity last year than any other state) and carbon sequestration. But I’m not highly confident in that assessment - maybe we are fucked. But I do think it’s more likely than not that human ingenuity and, believe it or not, capitalism (with a healthy dose of subsidies and industrial policy) will ultimately avert the truly dire scenarios.
> Moving to Mars is a pipedream for 99.9999% of the population.
It’s actually a pipe dream for 100% of the population.
Slightly more seriously, I think he’s too pessimistic about the impact of renewable energy generation (contra his observations, Florida installed more solar capacity last year than any other state) and carbon sequestration. But I’m not highly confident in that assessment - maybe we are fucked. But I do think it’s more likely than not that human ingenuity and, believe it or not, capitalism (with a healthy dose of subsidies and industrial policy) will ultimately avert the truly dire scenarios.
Author here. I don't know where they installed those panels, because we drove 1800 miles through all sorts of areas and we hardly saw a single solar panel.
I've only heard that carbon sequestration is essentially a waste of time. Also thinking systemically we need to do more than address just carbon. Carbon is currently the primary focus, probably because it can be financialized, but we need to take basically every system we have and ensure it has useable outputs like natural systems do.
There are no practical carbon-capture storage technologies. I'm aware of at least one project by major engineering firms into actually implementing it - a serious attempt, by serious, experienced engineers, to make it work - that ended recently after years of effort with a final report that basically said "This doesn't work. Here's why..."
It's useful to the energy firms to keep the promise of CCS alive, but even if you have perfect capture at the point of generation, the problem of actually keeping it sequestered at any useful scale is unsolved.
It's useful to the energy firms to keep the promise of CCS alive, but even if you have perfect capture at the point of generation, the problem of actually keeping it sequestered at any useful scale is unsolved.
The best CO2 sequestration technologies we have are soils, forests, plankton and seagrass. Unfortunately, all of them are being impacted by the effects of (mostly animal) agriculture and the fishing industry.
Act accordingly.
https://ourworldindata.org/drivers-of-deforestation
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/04/improvin...
Improving soil could keep world within 1.5C heating target, research suggests - better farming techniques across the world could lead to storage of 31 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide a year, data shows
https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/article/65/3/302/784343
Effects of climate and overfishing on zooplankton dynamics and ecosystem structure: regime shifts, trophic cascade, and feedback loops in a simple ecosystem
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/seagrass-ocean...
Act accordingly.
https://ourworldindata.org/drivers-of-deforestation
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/04/improvin...
Improving soil could keep world within 1.5C heating target, research suggests - better farming techniques across the world could lead to storage of 31 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide a year, data shows
https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/article/65/3/302/784343
Effects of climate and overfishing on zooplankton dynamics and ecosystem structure: regime shifts, trophic cascade, and feedback loops in a simple ecosystem
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/seagrass-ocean...
I flip-flop between optimism and pessimism on this and I’m in a pessimistic cycle at the moment.
I can also imagine the machinery of capitalism maybe working (I like the idea of declaring a ‘war on emissions’ popping a war revenue act for the highest earners and creating a new industry focused on reducing emissions).
But two things are fueling my pessimism: the first is that as a culture we’ve grown so used to a lifestyle (and economy) based on unsustainable use of our resources. I just can’t see a world where we take a step back from any of the modern conveniences we’ve gotten used to hanging.
I guess related to that: The free market is the most effective model, but that comes at cost of no protections for workers and resources, and that rewards exploitation.
I used to hope that I was wrong, now I mostly just hope that the worst results don’t happen in my own lifetime.
I can also imagine the machinery of capitalism maybe working (I like the idea of declaring a ‘war on emissions’ popping a war revenue act for the highest earners and creating a new industry focused on reducing emissions).
But two things are fueling my pessimism: the first is that as a culture we’ve grown so used to a lifestyle (and economy) based on unsustainable use of our resources. I just can’t see a world where we take a step back from any of the modern conveniences we’ve gotten used to hanging.
I guess related to that: The free market is the most effective model, but that comes at cost of no protections for workers and resources, and that rewards exploitation.
I used to hope that I was wrong, now I mostly just hope that the worst results don’t happen in my own lifetime.
I'm in a similar place and have come to more or less the same conclusions regarding basically just trying to live it up while that's possible (Jim Morrison would say "I just want to get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames"). The several sigma temperature anomalies this year certainly didn't make me any more optimistic. And I get the impression that the scientists really don't have much clue about how this all ends anymore.
I used to feel jealous for children born after me because of all the things they'll get to see that I wont. These days I feel very much the opposite.
I used to feel jealous for children born after me because of all the things they'll get to see that I wont. These days I feel very much the opposite.
> now I mostly just hope that the worst results don’t happen in my own lifetime
I don't understand this point. It seems to me that the longer we wait for a collapse to happen, the worse it will be (as fewer resources will be left for rebuilding civilization).
What's the benefit of it happening in our children's lifetimes instead of our own, except for the fact that we get to continue unsustainable consumption a bit longer, rather than trying to change things?
I don't understand this point. It seems to me that the longer we wait for a collapse to happen, the worse it will be (as fewer resources will be left for rebuilding civilization).
What's the benefit of it happening in our children's lifetimes instead of our own, except for the fact that we get to continue unsustainable consumption a bit longer, rather than trying to change things?
Not all of us have children.
We are all but stewards for those who'll come after us.
Sooner or later there will be no one after - and it's sure looking like sooner to me. One reason of many for the no children.
Good ... you're further than the others. Now stop dwelling and get working so that doesn't happen.
[deleted]
I don't see the problem with wrapping each individual fruit with plastic. It's the same reason they wrap cucumbers. It's one of those things that seems insane but actually leads to way less spoilage.
It's simply not necessary. Especially with fruit that have a thick peel that you are not going to eat anyway (oranges), it's already a perfect natural protection.
I think the point is the disposable plastic waste is worse than the wasted fruit itself. Fruit is renewable, plastic isn't.
(I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out the argument.)
(I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out the argument.)
It depends on where the fruit is grown. If it’s local, sure, but many are trucked or flown from long distances burning a lot of fossil fuels. There could maybe be a distance the fruit comes from and an increased rate of spoilage in the humid air that makes plastic wrap at least neutral with letting it rot. But my random guess is no one is doing that calculation, they are just worried about keeping their hotel looking nice.
You want to reduce the carbon footprint of your food? Focus on what you eat, not whether your food is local
https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
Transport is a small contributor to emissions. For most food products, it accounts for less than 10%, and it’s much smaller for the largest GHG emitters. In beef from beef herds, it’s 0.5%.
https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
Transport is a small contributor to emissions. For most food products, it accounts for less than 10%, and it’s much smaller for the largest GHG emitters. In beef from beef herds, it’s 0.5%.
Sure, we’re talking in the context of fruits and veggies being shrink wrapped to avoid spoilage specifically, not produce vs meat though.
In that article it correctly states that the cost of transportation is small across all food types including beef, but in the context of apples specifically it shows the cost of transportation is not only significant to the total cost of the apple, packaging costs aren’t even visible. So the idea that packaging it in shrink wrap to avoid spoilage and transport of more apples actually seems to make sense?
In that article it correctly states that the cost of transportation is small across all food types including beef, but in the context of apples specifically it shows the cost of transportation is not only significant to the total cost of the apple, packaging costs aren’t even visible. So the idea that packaging it in shrink wrap to avoid spoilage and transport of more apples actually seems to make sense?
> packaging costs aren’t even visible. So the idea that packaging it in shrink wrap to avoid spoilage and transport of more apples actually seems to make sense?
a) that's per kilogram, and probably not with each apple packaged individually and in plastic
b) plastic is inexpensive, but its true cost is not reflected in its price due to externalities (and emissions are not the only one)
So ... it's not easy to answer. My point was that whether food is sourced locally or shipped (not flown) from afar may not be the main factor to consider.
a) that's per kilogram, and probably not with each apple packaged individually and in plastic
b) plastic is inexpensive, but its true cost is not reflected in its price due to externalities (and emissions are not the only one)
So ... it's not easy to answer. My point was that whether food is sourced locally or shipped (not flown) from afar may not be the main factor to consider.
But the energy used to generate and transport the fruit isn't necessarily renewable.
These apples were in a 24x7 air conditioned room.
Wait, do they know the US isn’t even on the map for biggest plastic polluters of the ocean: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic...
If you want to make a dent, start there.
Sustainability is absolutely necessary, but its label is instead distorted by money laundering efforts such as carbon credits (you’re paying people to plant logging-worthy species they will eventually log out and sell/burn).
Virtue signaling in the EU is getting so bad, it’s opening the doors far and wide for Populist Totalitarians to take over your governments. All they have to say is “Look, you’re barely surviving in this inflation and the EU wants to take away your meat and ration your energy because it’s bad for the planet?” Green political parties have done so much damage to Europe they helped Putin sustain a war, and profit hugely from it (by just shutting down EU Nuclear power plants).
If you want to objectively help, find who the worst polluters are and start to ask why and what replacements can be made. Fund plastic alternatives and designate carbon credits to go to efforts that can’t be undone. Think second and third order of consequences.
If you want to make a dent, start there.
Sustainability is absolutely necessary, but its label is instead distorted by money laundering efforts such as carbon credits (you’re paying people to plant logging-worthy species they will eventually log out and sell/burn).
Virtue signaling in the EU is getting so bad, it’s opening the doors far and wide for Populist Totalitarians to take over your governments. All they have to say is “Look, you’re barely surviving in this inflation and the EU wants to take away your meat and ration your energy because it’s bad for the planet?” Green political parties have done so much damage to Europe they helped Putin sustain a war, and profit hugely from it (by just shutting down EU Nuclear power plants).
If you want to objectively help, find who the worst polluters are and start to ask why and what replacements can be made. Fund plastic alternatives and designate carbon credits to go to efforts that can’t be undone. Think second and third order of consequences.
This is like going to the desert and complaining it was too sunny and too hot
i too like to go to other countries and spend my time documenting how much better i am than them
I think we all do. The last country I went to from the US, though, I had difficulty finding anything worse except higher taxes.
ya, what a misguided hit piece based off face value observations. there is a name for brits who like to trash the US, damn red coats, still salty about losing the revolutionary, err, American war.
eating breakfast in a car?? simply preposterous!! however, I can see how enjoying a full English in the driver's seat would be a bit of a challenge.
eating breakfast in a car?? simply preposterous!! however, I can see how enjoying a full English in the driver's seat would be a bit of a challenge.
The dude sounds like a Karen alas. He flew his family over to the US, rented an SUV, but it's these "other fools" that are the problem.
As a NYer who spent some of the COVID period in Miami, the thing that jumps out is that Floridians have a lower baseline level of anxiety. So if you are going to Florida and expect everyone to be as freaked out about anything as you are, you are going to just make yourself crazier.
As a NYer who spent some of the COVID period in Miami, the thing that jumps out is that Floridians have a lower baseline level of anxiety. So if you are going to Florida and expect everyone to be as freaked out about anything as you are, you are going to just make yourself crazier.
> He flew his family over to the US, rented an SUV, but it's these "other fools" that are the problem.
File under tired tropes of shallow European impressions of the US.
I'm just sad he didn't bring up the metric system. I could have had bingo.
File under tired tropes of shallow European impressions of the US.
I'm just sad he didn't bring up the metric system. I could have had bingo.
> Floridians have a lower baseline level of anxiety
Florida politics seems antithetical to this sentiment. I can't think of a state in the country whose leaders evoke a more anxiety-ridden rhetoric.
Florida politics seems antithetical to this sentiment. I can't think of a state in the country whose leaders evoke a more anxiety-ridden rhetoric.
I guess that's not the vibe I got there as a New Yorker...
Meanwhile I live in a state where we are taxed to the teeth for energy use. Plastic straws are banned. We have to sort trash in 5 or 6 different ways. People refuse to acknowledge that their conservation efforts for a year are undone by some guy in Texas in five minutes, and would rather make their (and everyone else's) lives more inconvenient to score brownie points.