Ask HN: How to prove we aren't the source of a noise complaint?
22 comments
Any vacation or trip planned soon? An alibi you were away from home could prove you’re not the source of the noise.
We recently had a very similar situation. It makes you feel quite powerless and frustrated, I hope you guys figure it out soon. Mediation is key in a situation like this, so it’s nice the building owner is already involved. We tried being proactive and showed good will to our downstairs neighbor but unfortunately they kept complaining. The landlord had ensured them, it wasn’t us. In the end it turned out to be coming from somewhere else. Or at least that’s what they started believing.
Noise can travel far in apartment buildings and in non-straight lines...
If you are worried and trust that the neighbor comes in good faith, you can ask them to call you once they hear those banging, or even better knock on you door and come in to listen.
Recording might not actually help you, as you might record noises and not be able to prove where it comes from. The same applies for renting an acoustic sniper localization system- it might direct you somewhere but not really help find the source
If you are worried and trust that the neighbor comes in good faith, you can ask them to call you once they hear those banging, or even better knock on you door and come in to listen.
Recording might not actually help you, as you might record noises and not be able to prove where it comes from. The same applies for renting an acoustic sniper localization system- it might direct you somewhere but not really help find the source
Bonus points for things we can connect to Apple Home
Work out where the noise is coming from?
I have asked that the building administration get more info on where/when/what type of noise but they haven't come back with anything useful yet.
We don't hear the noise. Our building has plenty of general noises but nothing that would justify a complaint
We don't hear the noise. Our building has plenty of general noises but nothing that would justify a complaint
- Record it with a sensitive mic and a timestamp.
- Alternatively, film a time lapse of you in bed, if you are comfortable with that.
- Does your neighbor seem to exhibit any mental health concerns?
- Have you heard the noise yourself? Have you tried to track it down?
- Do you or your wife sleep walk?
- Is your dog active at night?
- Do you have a carbon monoxide detector in your home? Does your neighbor? [1]
1. https://old.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/34l7vo/ma_post...
- Alternatively, film a time lapse of you in bed, if you are comfortable with that.
- Does your neighbor seem to exhibit any mental health concerns?
- Have you heard the noise yourself? Have you tried to track it down?
- Do you or your wife sleep walk?
- Is your dog active at night?
- Do you have a carbon monoxide detector in your home? Does your neighbor? [1]
1. https://old.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/34l7vo/ma_post...
Wow that CO story was wild! Answering in order:
- Do you recommend one? I have only really found something like a dictaphone which would work but doesn't seem ideal
- Good idea, I will investigate this.
- I haven't met them. All contact has been via the building management so far
- I haven't and neither has my wife
- Not at all. I get up to go to the loo in the night but I do it quietly and they have complained about noise during the day too
- They get up occasionally but mainly to stretch. They never get up and walk around / are active, they just go back to sleep (I am a light sleeper and would notice otherwise)
- Maybe I need to get one after reading that horror story
- Do you recommend one? I have only really found something like a dictaphone which would work but doesn't seem ideal
- Good idea, I will investigate this.
- I haven't met them. All contact has been via the building management so far
- I haven't and neither has my wife
- Not at all. I get up to go to the loo in the night but I do it quietly and they have complained about noise during the day too
- They get up occasionally but mainly to stretch. They never get up and walk around / are active, they just go back to sleep (I am a light sleeper and would notice otherwise)
- Maybe I need to get one after reading that horror story
It could also be apnea, the body can do weird things like quick strong muscle spasms to weak you up.
Maybe check for carbon monoxide poisoning, he could be hearing things that aren't there.
Other than that, remember that the burden of proof is on him. So don't go crazy over it yourself.
Other than that, remember that the burden of proof is on him. So don't go crazy over it yourself.
> However, it is hard to prove and I am concerned that if this turns into something more serious and they want to take action we will need to prove the noise isn't coming from us.
Don't they need to prove it's coming from you? The reasonable way would be for them to summon an observer when the noises are happening, and then the observer can investigate while the noises are happening.
Don't they need to prove it's coming from you? The reasonable way would be for them to summon an observer when the noises are happening, and then the observer can investigate while the noises are happening.
> Don't they need to prove it's coming from you?
I would hope so but from looking online apparently they can use it as a case to evict you or not renew your lease even without much evidence.
I have sent an email to the administration to ensure that we have it in writing that we are sure it is not us and are happy to do whatever we can to help investigate so at least there is some paper trail.
I would hope so but from looking online apparently they can use it as a case to evict you or not renew your lease even without much evidence.
I have sent an email to the administration to ensure that we have it in writing that we are sure it is not us and are happy to do whatever we can to help investigate so at least there is some paper trail.
> Don't they need to prove it's coming from you?
(US) Yes, if they want to evict you. However, they don't need proof (or even an accusation) of anything in order to opt not to offer you a lease renewal.
(US) Yes, if they want to evict you. However, they don't need proof (or even an accusation) of anything in order to opt not to offer you a lease renewal.
And if it ever went to court, it would likely be under a civil nuisance law, where they would only have to prove that it more likely than not came from your room - it would turn into he said, she said. Just their word could be enough for the court to rule against you.
This is what we want to avoid. We know for sure it is not us but who knows whose word they would trust if it got to a dispute
I once had a couple of very excited cops pound on my door at 6AM demanding that they be allowed in to search the place. Apparently, someone reported hearing blood-curdling screams coming from my apartment.
The funny thing was that I had been up for an hour or so (covering the time period in question) and heard nothing but a peaceful morning. I never did figure out what happened.
For the record, I consented to the search, which consisted of them looking in every place that a person might be able to hide. They were polite, efficient, and got out of there quickly.
The funny thing was that I had been up for an hour or so (covering the time period in question) and heard nothing but a peaceful morning. I never did figure out what happened.
For the record, I consented to the search, which consisted of them looking in every place that a person might be able to hide. They were polite, efficient, and got out of there quickly.
The Apple Watch Noise app measures loud noises. The Health app on iOS has a section called Environmental Sound Levels that shows the measurements over time on a chart. This of course doesn't help if you can also hear the noises, but it sounds like that is not the case?
We can't hear the noises. Something like the Apple Watch noise monitoring would be great as we could say "see, the decibels haven't gone above x in the last week" but as far as I can see it doesn't give you this info over time
The measurements taken by the watch can be viewed over time in the Health app on iOS. Try image searching for "Environmental Sound Levels" "iOS" "Health" to get an idea of how it looks. e.g. here is a screenshot: https://www.idropnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Apple-H...
It sounds like this iOS app can write noise levels to the Health app too: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/niosh-sound-level-meter/id1096... so maybe that could let you test drive this if you don't already have the watch.
It sounds like this iOS app can write noise levels to the Health app too: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/niosh-sound-level-meter/id1096... so maybe that could let you test drive this if you don't already have the watch.
This is great, thanks!
I have a watch and just checked. There is quite granular data there (readings about every 30 seconds)
Nothing jumps out but I will dig through it
Huge thanks for the pointers
I have a watch and just checked. There is quite granular data there (readings about every 30 seconds)
Nothing jumps out but I will dig through it
Huge thanks for the pointers
Try Decibel Meter Ultra (https://www.decibelmeterultra.com/) if you have an iOS device. It will give you a graph over time and you can leave it running over night. Free version is limited to 2 min duration but has a 7-day free trial.
Great, will check it out - thanks!
1. Maybe your neighbor is not well grounded in shared reality. Maybe they have decided you bother them. Maybe the noise complaints are just what that person is inclined to do. Proving whatever you hope to prove won’t change
anything.
2. Ordinarily uour apartment management probably does not want to evict you and if they want to your proof won’t matter.
3. Usually these are a he-said—she-said and the apartment management gets paid to do the least disruptive thing they can do. They take the complaint and follow protocol and call it a day.
It’s their job to get out of bed at 3am and see what is going on. Suggest that and call it a day…politely without the “it’s your job” being explicit.
3. If it really matters hire a lawyer. This is a social issue not a technical one.
Good luck.
2. Ordinarily uour apartment management probably does not want to evict you and if they want to your proof won’t matter.
3. Usually these are a he-said—she-said and the apartment management gets paid to do the least disruptive thing they can do. They take the complaint and follow protocol and call it a day.
It’s their job to get out of bed at 3am and see what is going on. Suggest that and call it a day…politely without the “it’s your job” being explicit.
3. If it really matters hire a lawyer. This is a social issue not a technical one.
Good luck.
My wife and I are incredibly boring and are absolutely certain the source of the noise is not us. We never have guests over, we haven't moved any furniture, we don't stay up late, nor do we bang our feet etc. For example, they complained about banging between 3am - 7am last night when we were in bed early due to me being ill so we were 100% not the source of that noise.
However, it is hard to prove and I am concerned that if this turns into something more serious and they want to take action we will need to prove the noise isn't coming from us.
Do you have any recommendations on how I can gather evidence? E.g. sound/video recording devices that you can recommend that allow us to record our lack of noise in a low effort way?
We have a camera in our living room which we use to check on our dog when we are out but this only has a setting to record when there is motion (I have turned this on just in case but I would like something more comprehensive)