Let's Quit X(helloquitx.com)
helloquitx.com
Let's Quit X
https://www.helloquitx.com
180 comments
I've gradually moved over to Mastodon for most of my posting. The pocket of Fedi I reside within (queer fedi) is quite nice.
Last year, I seriously started using Bluesky. It's okay, but a little too much like "old Twitter" for my tastes. I still use it, but my most interesting posts go on Fedi.
This is all to say, Bluesky has replaced Twitter for me, but I was already phasing it out.
Last year, I seriously started using Bluesky. It's okay, but a little too much like "old Twitter" for my tastes. I still use it, but my most interesting posts go on Fedi.
This is all to say, Bluesky has replaced Twitter for me, but I was already phasing it out.
I found the same. It's impressive how much bluesky resembles twitter, but I'm not sure if that's a compliment.
On Mastadon I find much smaller circles, but much more engaged.
I think bluesky is winning at discovery. If I want to feel the pulse on a topic, bluesky is winning. If I'm not even aware there's a topic that I want to feel the pulse on, bluesky is winning. But I think mastadon has been successful at curating a very different 'vibe', and I appreciate it. So I catch up on mastadon first, and then doomscroll bluesky if I need to find work for idle hands.
On Mastadon I find much smaller circles, but much more engaged.
I think bluesky is winning at discovery. If I want to feel the pulse on a topic, bluesky is winning. If I'm not even aware there's a topic that I want to feel the pulse on, bluesky is winning. But I think mastadon has been successful at curating a very different 'vibe', and I appreciate it. So I catch up on mastadon first, and then doomscroll bluesky if I need to find work for idle hands.
chimen(1)
Anecdotal, but so many people in my circles have jumped ship to Bluesky that the transition is pretty seamless at this point. It feels more like Twitter than what became of Twitter does.
Curious: what happens when Bluesky has all the same people/posts as Twitter? Will it be any better? Or will it just be the same thing on a new website?
Well, for a start it won't have Musk trying to break it. Like, its worst near-term case is probably 2022 Twitter. It's unlikely they'll do pay-for-attention, say; musk!Twitter is the only social network I know of to have done that outside the dating/hookup site world.
Also, though, it has significantly better self-serve moderation tools than Twitter ever did (they _kind_ of existed for pre-Musk Twitter as third-party stuff, though Musk's API changes broke most of them). For instance, I subscribe to a moderation list which auto-blocks transphobes, so I don't have to read their One Joke again and again (seriously, they've pretty much had the one thing for the last 20 years; you'd think they could at least come up with some new material). People who, er, enjoy the one joke are of course free to enjoy it by not subscribing to that mod list.
I do expect it to get worse over time as more people join, tbh; the current user base is rather self-selecting. But I don't think it will get as bad as current-Twitter. If it does, er, onto the next thing, I suppose.
Also, though, it has significantly better self-serve moderation tools than Twitter ever did (they _kind_ of existed for pre-Musk Twitter as third-party stuff, though Musk's API changes broke most of them). For instance, I subscribe to a moderation list which auto-blocks transphobes, so I don't have to read their One Joke again and again (seriously, they've pretty much had the one thing for the last 20 years; you'd think they could at least come up with some new material). People who, er, enjoy the one joke are of course free to enjoy it by not subscribing to that mod list.
I do expect it to get worse over time as more people join, tbh; the current user base is rather self-selecting. But I don't think it will get as bad as current-Twitter. If it does, er, onto the next thing, I suppose.
I found the moderation and choosing your own feed with blocklists so far implies that even if you copied and pasted all the odious people from Twitter, I still would never see them, nor would any other thinking person, and they would die in darkness. Also, there are examples of the most odious people joining and BlueSky banning them sua sponte almost immediately.
So, I am optimistic.
So, I am optimistic.
Do you have any examples of the odious people being banned?
It was my understanding that with most social networks the moderation is usually very opaque/can only be gleaned from public comments. Examples would help to understand how BlueSky would systematically moderate differently than Twitter (or what the ban process is like).
Interestingly, if blocks are public, I guess you can audit the state of the interconnectedness between people, (seemingly what https://clearsky.app/ does?) and therefore, what has happened to the people odious enough to receive these blocks but not odious enough to be banned.
It was my understanding that with most social networks the moderation is usually very opaque/can only be gleaned from public comments. Examples would help to understand how BlueSky would systematically moderate differently than Twitter (or what the ban process is like).
Interestingly, if blocks are public, I guess you can audit the state of the interconnectedness between people, (seemingly what https://clearsky.app/ does?) and therefore, what has happened to the people odious enough to receive these blocks but not odious enough to be banned.
For all the whining about being blocked on Bluesky, no account has crossed the 100k blocking mark, far less than 1% of the user base
It's worth mentioning that X's problems with toxicity are greatly enhanced by its current leadership, so even if everybody switched to bsky tomorrow it would be different. There are far better tools for users to manage their own experience on bsky than X allows.
But, assume that bsky does turn to shit too... if nothing else the (successful?) migration from X shows that people are capable of moving - should bsky face its own calamity the friction to move again will be lower.
There's reason to hope that it won't end in total disaster though. It should (at some point) be possible to federate with bsky in a meaningful way, and perhaps a migration can be even easier than this one (i.e. you can switch to another instance that is run differently).
But, assume that bsky does turn to shit too... if nothing else the (successful?) migration from X shows that people are capable of moving - should bsky face its own calamity the friction to move again will be lower.
There's reason to hope that it won't end in total disaster though. It should (at some point) be possible to federate with bsky in a meaningful way, and perhaps a migration can be even easier than this one (i.e. you can switch to another instance that is run differently).
Campaign [https://freeourfeeds.com/] aims to safeguard social media from billionaires using Bluesky's tech [AT Protocol] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42686651
Well it probably won't promote people paying for blue checkmarks into my feed.
The ability to control your own experience via custom feeds makes Bluesky so delightful. The new X algo made it impossible to just follow the people I wanted to.
With proper, sensible moderation it won’t get the same posts. Twitter as it is now is what happens when you let certain types of filth be posted.
This launched today, trying to address your valid concerns:
> Bluesky is an opportunity to shake up the status quo. They have built scaffolding for a new kind of social web. One where we all have more say, choice and control.But it will take independent funding and governance to turn Bluesky’s underlying tech—the AT Protocol—into something more powerful than a single app. We want to create an entire ecosystem of interconnected apps and different companies that have people’s interests at heart. [0]
> FreeOurFeeds aims to build a new social media ecosystem on top of the AT Protocol, an open, decentralized framework designed to enable interoperable social media platforms, giving users greater control over their data, algorithms, and online experience (it’s what Bluesky runs on). They want to leverage this tech to create a social media ecosystem focused on individual control, creativity, community well-being, and free expression.
> They basically want to build Bluesky out from one company into a whole ecosystem of different apps and companies by making a non profit foundation that opens up its underlying technology so anybody can build on it. [1]
That last part is not very accurate. Anybody can build on it now. Their goal is to make a second AT Proto Relay [2] that is not under the control of Bluesky.
[0] https://freeourfeeds.com/
[1] https://www.usermag.co/p/freeourfeeds-a-30m-plan-to-take-bac...
[2] https://atproto.com/guides/glossary#relay
> Bluesky is an opportunity to shake up the status quo. They have built scaffolding for a new kind of social web. One where we all have more say, choice and control.But it will take independent funding and governance to turn Bluesky’s underlying tech—the AT Protocol—into something more powerful than a single app. We want to create an entire ecosystem of interconnected apps and different companies that have people’s interests at heart. [0]
> FreeOurFeeds aims to build a new social media ecosystem on top of the AT Protocol, an open, decentralized framework designed to enable interoperable social media platforms, giving users greater control over their data, algorithms, and online experience (it’s what Bluesky runs on). They want to leverage this tech to create a social media ecosystem focused on individual control, creativity, community well-being, and free expression.
> They basically want to build Bluesky out from one company into a whole ecosystem of different apps and companies by making a non profit foundation that opens up its underlying technology so anybody can build on it. [1]
That last part is not very accurate. Anybody can build on it now. Their goal is to make a second AT Proto Relay [2] that is not under the control of Bluesky.
[0] https://freeourfeeds.com/
[1] https://www.usermag.co/p/freeourfeeds-a-30m-plan-to-take-bac...
[2] https://atproto.com/guides/glossary#relay
I don't believe that will happen. It looks like the eternal September will never leave the current giants. As more and more of the world came online, we passed a threshold where a majority of users are passive and undiscerning. The current giants are the generation of platforms that benefitted from this.
What do you mean by eternal September?
It describes an event in which a flood of new users come online and affect the quality of a network.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
It will be better because Bluesky gives users control of the algo & moderation via the open ATProto(col). We get choice and competition without the switching cost (after you move over to ATProto)
It appears to have better blocking mechanics, so I don't know. The same content might exist there, but you won't see things that you filtered.
Bluesky has better self moderation tools. You can mute entire lists of accounts that have certain keywords in their posts or usernames.
It won't. BlueSky is heavily censored.
So is X.
When a MAGA civil war broke out on there around Christmas last year, accounts that opposed Elon were either disabled or lost their verified status.
You also can’t share links without their feed algorithm limiting your reach.
All social networks are censored in some form.
When a MAGA civil war broke out on there around Christmas last year, accounts that opposed Elon were either disabled or lost their verified status.
You also can’t share links without their feed algorithm limiting your reach.
All social networks are censored in some form.
No, not "so is X". You can find only a few examples from months ago. While BS censorship is constant and vast.
Your attempt at gaslighting is pathetic.
Your attempt at gaslighting is pathetic.
Same thing but without Elon Musk. At this point (not) moving to Bluesky is just a vote of (no) confidence against Elon.
No, it's not just that. Twitter had already been going downhill when Musk took over. Even if the old ownership was still in charge, now would be a good time for early adopters to find the next generation of platforms.
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I wish I was driven by feelings as so many others seem to be; would make my life much simpler.
It definitely does. And even better in some ways like no ads and fewer trolls.
Curious :why Bluesky and not Mastodon? I would have thought that decentralization would be a better safeguard against Bluesky becoming Twitter after being successful...
Honest question: I left Twitter so long ago (I guess that I never got it) and am not really using Mastodon... so I think that I'm not the right people
Honest question: I left Twitter so long ago (I guess that I never got it) and am not really using Mastodon... so I think that I'm not the right people
Bluesky is much easier to use than Mastodon, particularly for non-technical folks. It’s also has an UI that looks a lot like Twitter from 2-3 years ago.
I feel like “much” is an exaggeration. In my day to day use, the only annoyance I regularly run into is having to tap an extra link or two in order to follow someone on a different network.
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bluesky has ecosystem of tools build on protocol. for example Analytics tools, like https://www.graphtracks.com
I big question is whether "official" accounts will move to Bluesky - governments, businesses, organizations, etc. I see some, but not too many.
Of course, maybe that's fine, some people prefer it that way. But, for me, it seems nice to have a common place where organizations put out announcements.
Of course, maybe that's fine, some people prefer it that way. But, for me, it seems nice to have a common place where organizations put out announcements.
Honestly I thought most of that was strictly Facebook's domain. Maybe that's just the consequences of living in a smaller metro than most, the folks around here are slower on the uptake of new tech. But yeah, none of my local municipal orgs are on Twitter or ever have been in any capacity. They use Facebook for everything, that and local businesses are the only reason I still have a Facebook account.
I second your anecdote. I ran both for a good amount of time but the last time I went to X, I opened it on my phone, waiting for a coffee, and got 3 posts about idiotic culture war nonsense chased with an ad for a crypto scam, and I genuinely aloud said, "what the fuck am I still on this for" and deleted it. Haven't missed it once since.
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I'm not sure why but blue sky serves me a lot of very specific content I'm not interested in seeing and no matter how many dozens of pictures I choose (show less like this) on, it continues to show.
I've basically stopped using it.
I've basically stopped using it.
I don't think the "show less like this" works on photos. It seems to work well on text posts.
Please indulge in my conspiracy theory as to why Bluesky will likely end up in the same place as Twitter[0].
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42623590
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42623590
Eric Goldman echoed it here as well in this section: "The Implications of Trump’s Election for Section 230" in his 2024 internet year in review. [0]
[0] https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2025/01/2024-internet-...
He says Section 230 is on the chopping and extinction block in 2025 and he would be shocked if it made it to 2026.
[0] https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2025/01/2024-internet-...
He says Section 230 is on the chopping and extinction block in 2025 and he would be shocked if it made it to 2026.
The problem is that you are creating an echo chamber. My experience using let’s quit “insert company name” is that these echo chambers tend to be toxic and terrible. IE.. Gab, Truth Social, etc.
It’s very difficult to do unless you can have broad consensus. I tend to use Twitter for an industry wide group and while a few individuals have moved, the Bluesky version just doesn’t have the reach or usefulness of the twitter or x version.
It’s very difficult to do unless you can have broad consensus. I tend to use Twitter for an industry wide group and while a few individuals have moved, the Bluesky version just doesn’t have the reach or usefulness of the twitter or x version.
Twitter is already, and increasingly so, an echo chamber of the type of people who want to stay on Twitter.
From that vantage point it is the conscious decision to stay on the network during an exodus that creates an echo chamber. Something similar happened with facebook. The people who are still on facebook in 2025 are having a pretty different conversation than occurs in some other places.
From that vantage point it is the conscious decision to stay on the network during an exodus that creates an echo chamber. Something similar happened with facebook. The people who are still on facebook in 2025 are having a pretty different conversation than occurs in some other places.
It's still way more diverse than any other platform. Blue sky is still mostly a "tech bro" related, western tech circles centric platform. You absolutely do not get even close to the variety and diversity that X has.
This will eventually shift. There is legitimately very little reason to use X unless you're a Musk-stan. Case in point: I started using twitter regularly during the CA fires & blackouts in 2017. I was amazed at how quickly I could get a read on a situation and actual on the ground facts at near real-time speed.
For the Palisades fire, I'm struggling to make X nearly as useful as it was. There is a lot of random diatribe and speculation but on-the-ground facts just don't appear.
The juice is gone.
For the Palisades fire, I'm struggling to make X nearly as useful as it was. There is a lot of random diatribe and speculation but on-the-ground facts just don't appear.
The juice is gone.
I chuckle at the argument that you're entering an echo chamber when you leave X.
News flash: X is already an echo chamber!
Maybe the "oh no don't leave for an echo chamber!" assertion is a case of people remembering the pre-X version of twitter, and comparing competitors to that - rather than what X is today. Or maybe it's a case of "boiling a frog," where people on X are actually unaware of what it has become.
Or maybe... it's actually just a bad faith argument by people who like the current X echo chamber.
News flash: X is already an echo chamber!
Maybe the "oh no don't leave for an echo chamber!" assertion is a case of people remembering the pre-X version of twitter, and comparing competitors to that - rather than what X is today. Or maybe it's a case of "boiling a frog," where people on X are actually unaware of what it has become.
Or maybe... it's actually just a bad faith argument by people who like the current X echo chamber.
> Or maybe... it's actually just a bad faith argument by people who like the current X echo chamber.
I won't pretend to speak to the motivations of any HN users, but I've seen some of these conversations play out where someone invokes the concept of an echo chamber only when it means LGBTQIA+ people can just exist without being harassed. That's an undesirable outcome to those folks.
I would like to think HN is better than that, but more frequently in the past few months, I've been disappointed by commentators on this website, so I wouldn't put any money on that bet.
Echo chambers can be dangerous, but misinformation and unchecked bigotry are more dangerous. Whereas the consequences of an echo chamber are abstract, I can measure the consequences of the latter in deaths.
So my go-to question is simply, "What are your priorities?"
I won't pretend to speak to the motivations of any HN users, but I've seen some of these conversations play out where someone invokes the concept of an echo chamber only when it means LGBTQIA+ people can just exist without being harassed. That's an undesirable outcome to those folks.
I would like to think HN is better than that, but more frequently in the past few months, I've been disappointed by commentators on this website, so I wouldn't put any money on that bet.
Echo chambers can be dangerous, but misinformation and unchecked bigotry are more dangerous. Whereas the consequences of an echo chamber are abstract, I can measure the consequences of the latter in deaths.
So my go-to question is simply, "What are your priorities?"
For real, those people just want to spew their hateful eliminatory rhetoric towards trans people, and asking them not to is somehow creating a left-wing echo chamber. I feel like I'm losing my mind.
Every major LA fire hashtag is a 10-1 ratio of political nonsense and engagement farming to actual content. Maybe 20-1. It's depressing to try to sift through for actual information. The LA local news was light-years more timely and informative than twitter.
Is there a personal reason you have to keep with it at all at that level? Not doubting you do, but I feel like people are generally addicted to keeping up with shit that affects their emotions and really doesn't need to.
> but I feel like people are generally addicted to keeping up with shit that affects their emotions and really doesn't need to.
Wow delving deep into people's psyche and calling them out on HN, why ?
Wow delving deep into people's psyche and calling them out on HN, why ?
The thread was about quitting X. I quit X because it was designed to make me chronically scroll through emotionally charged but irrelevant tidbits of information constantly. I'm not making an inherent value judgement about the fires, and perhaps it wasn't the best choice of subject to make a point about, but it's just that if it's not fires, it's always something else. If I'm not in LA and don't know anyone in LA, I can realistically do without moment to moment updates, even if I have sympathy for the sorrow they might be experiencing, but I'd also sure as hell hope that if I needed those updates, they would be available on a publicly accessible platform.
Saying I'm calling someone out though seems a bit of a reach.
Saying I'm calling someone out though seems a bit of a reach.
I remember during covid and after when we had nearby wildfires. even during a mass shooting event a few years back how useful twitter was for realtime information sharing between public and agencies. There was a few years I'd regularly know things before radio/news picked them up. I also remember how during major world events twitter would explode in volume and reactions to the point third party systems would struggle (I once upon a time worked on one of those third party systems)
Now I struggle to find regular updates and half the accounts I used to follow are idle. By the time that third party twitter processor I had worked for shut down, the cadence of posts were so scheduled it was obviously driven by bots and not organic reactions. Even major world events would be gamed by bots as fast as real reactions which had significantly decreased on their own.
I haven't found a replacement to be fair, but I definitely see the enshittification of it from an incredibly useful short form broadcast channel to an engagement-gamified advertising megaphone.
Now I struggle to find regular updates and half the accounts I used to follow are idle. By the time that third party twitter processor I had worked for shut down, the cadence of posts were so scheduled it was obviously driven by bots and not organic reactions. Even major world events would be gamed by bots as fast as real reactions which had significantly decreased on their own.
I haven't found a replacement to be fair, but I definitely see the enshittification of it from an incredibly useful short form broadcast channel to an engagement-gamified advertising megaphone.
>unless you're a Musk-stan
what's a -stan? do you mean like kazakhstan?
what's a -stan? do you mean like kazakhstan?
Stalker/fan = stan
STalker / fAN. I think it’s attributable to the Eminem son Stan about a stalker. Likely even predates that.
It definitely doesn't predate the song, at least by my memory. (and fwiw, Wikipedia, Know Your Meme, Urban Dictionary, and Oxford English Dictionary all credit the song and have no references prior to that.)
> The problem is that you are creating an echo chamber.
How's that? Bluesky, say, has a fair bit of diverse opinion. It's low on the far-right (though there are certainly some; I subscribe to a few blocklists to filter their nonsense out), which has a bit of a personal affinity for Musk, but to an extent, y'know, who needs 'em? Like, it is not the case that there exist two opinions, far-right lunacy and everything else; the non-far-right segment contains multitudes.
How's that? Bluesky, say, has a fair bit of diverse opinion. It's low on the far-right (though there are certainly some; I subscribe to a few blocklists to filter their nonsense out), which has a bit of a personal affinity for Musk, but to an extent, y'know, who needs 'em? Like, it is not the case that there exist two opinions, far-right lunacy and everything else; the non-far-right segment contains multitudes.
X is already a far right echo chamber, if you create a new account and navigate to the "for you" page, all you see is Elon Musk, Alex Jones, Andrew Tate and other far right "role models".
It's unfortunate that X still retains a greater reach than its alternatives, but that can change in the medium term.
It's unfortunate that X still retains a greater reach than its alternatives, but that can change in the medium term.
I follow a bunch of Japanese game developers, who at present don't have a strong motivator to leave X. Most of them are also on LINE, but I'm a little reluctant to try it since I don't actually read Japanese. (ETA: I looked at LINE just now and it seems more like a chat app than a board where users post information for anyone, so I think it's off the table.)
Then just don't navigate to For You. I wish I could just see my friends on Facebook (those are the people I care about), but I can't turn off crappy suggestions.
With X I can control my own feed by using the followers tab.
With X I can control my own feed by using the followers tab.
My “For You” used to show me cool gamedev stuff from people I didn’t know.
There was a part of the suggestions that I liked! The algorithm was working for me!
Now it’s 100% pure toxic outrage bait.
There was a part of the suggestions that I liked! The algorithm was working for me!
Now it’s 100% pure toxic outrage bait.
The For You page is just an example, Musk appears everywhere on the platform, watch a video, swipe it and a video of Musk (totally unrelated) pops up. X is basically a right-wing propaganda machine now, which is one of the reasons I don't use it.
This. Never ever go to For You on twitter.
Many would not open an account on truth social, since Twitter/X is turning into it seems logical to encourage/help people leaving.
On that note, Facebook suggestions are 3:1 or 4:1 in relation to my friends.
The reason I only visit FB once a month to check for messages from some people who still use Messenger.
The reason I only visit FB once a month to check for messages from some people who still use Messenger.
"for you" means you want the algorithm to decide for you. Use "Following" instead.
>The problem is that you are creating an echo chamber
Yeah but it's a left wing echo chamber and that's good! /s
Incognito window > bsky > discovery feed > every post is about US politics, Trump bad, rich people bad, Musk bad etc. Same shit just different colors
Bsky is not the answer, the only answer is not to use social media at all. And more or less that applies to HN too.
Yeah but it's a left wing echo chamber and that's good! /s
Incognito window > bsky > discovery feed > every post is about US politics, Trump bad, rich people bad, Musk bad etc. Same shit just different colors
Bsky is not the answer, the only answer is not to use social media at all. And more or less that applies to HN too.
There's also 99.99% less bots on bluesky at the moment. I can live with actual good-faith discourse. But twitter right now is a cesspool of political bots, outrageous take engagement farming, and toxic personal attacks.
Obviously, this is going to be a problem with any site that becomes the town square, just like how Yelp and TripAdvisor eventually became so gamed as to be mostly useless. The question to me is can bluesky rise to the level of being useful w/o succumbing to the pitfalls that come with being ubiquitous.
Obviously, this is going to be a problem with any site that becomes the town square, just like how Yelp and TripAdvisor eventually became so gamed as to be mostly useless. The question to me is can bluesky rise to the level of being useful w/o succumbing to the pitfalls that come with being ubiquitous.
> The only answer is not to use social media at all. And more or less that applies to HN too.
That is the only correct answer. To essentially delete all your social media accounts.
If one wants to stop their alcohol addiction for example (Using Facebook, X), is not done by switching the brand of alcohol (Threads, Bluesky).
It is done by stopping altogether (by deleting all your accounts) and only you can do that.
That is the only correct answer. To essentially delete all your social media accounts.
If one wants to stop their alcohol addiction for example (Using Facebook, X), is not done by switching the brand of alcohol (Threads, Bluesky).
It is done by stopping altogether (by deleting all your accounts) and only you can do that.
God forbid people have standards of basic human decency. "Trump bad" posts being popular on a website is a world of a difference from a rich guy buying another platform with the specific goal of bringing back literal nazis, as proven in released court documents, doing it, and then going above and beyond by posting that kind of content himself.
I just checked this myself and it isn't accurate. The first post was trump, the second was rich people, the third was pigeons, fourth was about bluesky, fifth cheese puns, sixth ken jennings on shirts, seventh cats/maybe wildfires, eighth work really do be like that, ninth us politics, 10th john woo movies.
I don't think there's anything about Bsky that makes it "left wing" or an echo chamber, it's just that the first people to jump ship from Twitter were by and large, on the left of the US political spectrum. If Bsky ends up with hundreds of millions of people on it then it won't be any sort of echo chamber.
For now it's very much dominated by Twitter ex-pats, and that gives it a pretty predictable slant. Unlike Twitter however this isn't being imposed by the owner, it's organic.
For now it's very much dominated by Twitter ex-pats, and that gives it a pretty predictable slant. Unlike Twitter however this isn't being imposed by the owner, it's organic.
You aren't wrong, but I'd add that it's also just the never-ending grievance-politics of the reactionary right. Spaces that have them but don't amplify their voices enough are censoring conservatives. Spaces where people can moderate what they get who then opt out of it are censoring conservatives. Endless victim posturing about how silenced all these people are who paradoxically also never shut the fuck up.
They love the notion of the marketplace of ideas until said marketplace tells them to kick rocks and then it's crocodile tears.
They love the notion of the marketplace of ideas until said marketplace tells them to kick rocks and then it's crocodile tears.
I understand intellectually that employing a double-standard can work in the context of populism, but like you I find it absolutely exhausting. People who's party and ideology control every branch of government still pretend that they're plucky, marginalized freedom fighters.
Sigh
Sigh
> I don't think there's anything about Bsky that makes it "left wing" or an echo chamber
Bsky lacks (1) ads, (2) paying posters rewarded with promoted reach, and (3) a default algorithmic feed (Discover is algorithmic and exists, but the default feed unless unpinned is always Following.) It also has shareable feeds, as well as the default pinned feeds.
Each of these individually makes most users experience of Bluesky a lot more seeing what they choose to see than seeing what the site owner has a financial or other interest in everyone seeing, which in a sense makes it more likely to be a personal echo chamber rather than a single echo chamber or the mythical perfectly unbiased online marketplace of ideas.
OTOH, it also got a lot of users specifically in reaction to negative feelings about the central ideological direction perceived at X, which may make it on average more left-wing by comparison, if very much not uniformly left-wing or having any fundamental trait tending toward remaining even relatively left-wing.
Bsky lacks (1) ads, (2) paying posters rewarded with promoted reach, and (3) a default algorithmic feed (Discover is algorithmic and exists, but the default feed unless unpinned is always Following.) It also has shareable feeds, as well as the default pinned feeds.
Each of these individually makes most users experience of Bluesky a lot more seeing what they choose to see than seeing what the site owner has a financial or other interest in everyone seeing, which in a sense makes it more likely to be a personal echo chamber rather than a single echo chamber or the mythical perfectly unbiased online marketplace of ideas.
OTOH, it also got a lot of users specifically in reaction to negative feelings about the central ideological direction perceived at X, which may make it on average more left-wing by comparison, if very much not uniformly left-wing or having any fundamental trait tending toward remaining even relatively left-wing.
Same shit just different colors
I think though that Trump truly is worse. If you made this comment in 2008 or 2012 and used Trump or McCain I’d say you are right. But what happens when a person truly is a vile disgusting human being? Then it no longer becomes the same shit. As an extreme example, Kerensky wasn’t as bad as the Bolsheviks. It wasn’t the same shit.
I think though that Trump truly is worse. If you made this comment in 2008 or 2012 and used Trump or McCain I’d say you are right. But what happens when a person truly is a vile disgusting human being? Then it no longer becomes the same shit. As an extreme example, Kerensky wasn’t as bad as the Bolsheviks. It wasn’t the same shit.
I'm active in the retro game console modding community and we pretty much all jumped ship same time in early November.
I still log to Twitter once a week to check, there haven't been anything new in my following feed for at least a month beside the people cross posting.
So I can easily see myself do just that, I wouldn't miss anything anyway.
I still log to Twitter once a week to check, there haven't been anything new in my following feed for at least a month beside the people cross posting.
So I can easily see myself do just that, I wouldn't miss anything anyway.
Hugged, but here's a snapshot from Dec 26:
https://web.archive.org/web/20241226192120/https://www.hello...
https://web.archive.org/web/20241226192120/https://www.hello...
I quit Twitter in 2008, around the time I quit Facebook. Here's what I can say with confidence: Bluesky, Mastodon, whatever—they're all going to end up being bad, like Twitter. The problems ultimately come out of the format, not the specific instance of the format.
I disagree. Moderation is like culture. Twitter's moderation has gone to complete junk in the past couple of years. Bluesky and Mastodon don't have that problem (yet, or possibly ever).
In your analogy - moderation is part of the format.
In your analogy - moderation is part of the format.
Can't quit Twitter/X if you never made an account to begin with. ;)
I couldn't stand plain vanilla X either and entirely sympathize. I did leave it, for several years. But now, my heavily curated X feed (I use Control Panel for Twitter) is the single highest signal to noise news source I've found in five decades as an obsessive infovore. I filter out everything but the direct opinions of specific contributors, creating the bespoke daily newspaper I dreamed of for so long. I'd really rather that this wasn't the product of a centralized platform and would happily leap to a decentralized platform with similar value. But I won't let perfect be the enemy of the best collection of smart people I like to listen to I've yet to find except maybe on HN. And HN would benefit from better curation options too.
I deleted two quite big accounts that I ran.
Now I’m still on Nostr so I haven’t kicked my social media addiction yet, but at least on Nostr I get to pick and choose which of any, algorithm is forging my timeline.
Now I’m still on Nostr so I haven’t kicked my social media addiction yet, but at least on Nostr I get to pick and choose which of any, algorithm is forging my timeline.
The people/accounts I want to follow don't quit though
Done... like 10 years ago, but I didn't switch to anything. I'd previously used it for connecting with people at conferences and keeping up with stuff in web dev, but I quit because it was simultaneously too addictive with the drip feed of tiny—and in retrospect usually worthless—posts, and I got tired with the accumulation of moral posturing. I didn't even have any spicy opinions at the time, but it was just so gross to continually be bombarded with top 5 reasons I'm not feeling bad enough about subjects that have nothing to do with me or those of the people I'm following; "don't forget all of us in the in-group agreed to add __ to our desc today"
Anyone made a X to Bluesky importer yet? It is pretty difficult to discover the users back on Bluesky, and I thought with the Bluesky hose, it should be possible to matching content v.s. user?
The Sky Follower Bridge browser extension[1] works really well to find everyone you were following on Twitter and find their Bluesky accounts. It finds matches, close matches, and maybes so you do need to review, but the tool doesn't autofollow, just makes it easy to follow.
[1] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/sky-follower-bridge...
[1] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/sky-follower-bridge...
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The goal of the website/service it to facilitate this part.
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I had to quit both Reddit and Twitter after their respective API changes that disallowed the clients I was using. There are very good nonpartisan reasons to get off these platforms.
On the topic of migrations from one social media app to another, it has been very interesting to see the rapid migration from TikTok to Xiaohongshu ahead of the impending ban. I was very surprised to see that Xiaohongshu is already #1 on the US Apple app store's "Social Media" category. It seems that the appetite to use Instagram, Facebook, YouTube Shorts or Twitter after the ban comes into effect is very low.
Meta: when I hear people talking about "X" I (still?) think they are referring to X11.
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System
more accurately: The X Window System, version 11
and yes, I know it has its problems, but it is still a fine platform for many things and many people!
and yes, I know it has its problems, but it is still a fine platform for many things and many people!
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I left on 2022-12-18 after some of the muskian shenanigans and I haven't missed it since, quite the contrary in fact. Before that I had to put a time limit on using the app to fight off the dark patterns.
Now I'm going to actually delete my account.
Now I'm going to actually delete my account.
Holy cow, I created my account in May of 2007. What a different world we live in now.
For me the relative tranquility of Mastodon is not a bug but a feature. I deleted my Twitter account shortly after Elon bought it, actually not so much because of him, but to get more time for being with my family and working on my startup.
bluesky and other echochambers are not the solution to censorship. bluesky is the left to the x right. both serving different masters.
The solution is true mesh network with financial incentive to "host" the content. Imagine kinda of like bittorrent seeding where the longer you seed the more you "mine crypto". I'm too dumb to build such a thing, but that is the solution.
A true peer to peer network where all content is hosted and nothing can be brought down. you locally choose to "hide politics", "hide porn", "hide violence" and that's it.
the web as it was intended, free information.
The solution is true mesh network with financial incentive to "host" the content. Imagine kinda of like bittorrent seeding where the longer you seed the more you "mine crypto". I'm too dumb to build such a thing, but that is the solution.
A true peer to peer network where all content is hosted and nothing can be brought down. you locally choose to "hide politics", "hide porn", "hide violence" and that's it.
the web as it was intended, free information.
>bluesky is the left to the x right
you've given the left pov, but it's not accurate.
twitter was neutral, then twitter "went left" by censoring the right.
then musk bought twitter (renamed it X) and stopped censoring the right but did not censor the left; but a certain type of left person can't tolerate the right not being censored so they left first to the fediverse and now to bluesky
X is open to all; bluesky is a population of people who are not open to all
you've given the left pov, but it's not accurate.
twitter was neutral, then twitter "went left" by censoring the right.
then musk bought twitter (renamed it X) and stopped censoring the right but did not censor the left; but a certain type of left person can't tolerate the right not being censored so they left first to the fediverse and now to bluesky
X is open to all; bluesky is a population of people who are not open to all
You probably wouldn't want to host CSAM or even more abject content. Also the performance would be terrible.
The issue with unmoderated content is that it always devolves into a neonazis and other hateful/deranged groups echo chamber, and everyone else leaves because frankly who wants to engage with that? Look at 4chan for an example.
The issue with unmoderated content is that it always devolves into a neonazis and other hateful/deranged groups echo chamber, and everyone else leaves because frankly who wants to engage with that? Look at 4chan for an example.
agreed of csam - but for the rest, ai on edge is so powerful now, users could filter or not filter whatever they want. there's no reason musk or dorsey should decide whats ok.
Joke's on you, I quit it a decade ago.
I'd love to read why, but the site is down...
I'd love to read why, but the site is down...
Big celebrities/influencers and news media need to leave X for this to have an effect. Nothing will change as long as both of those user types remain on the platform.
At first, I really thought this was a bad idea. If you don't like reality, shutting yourself away in your own safe shell isn't helpful. The things you dislike will still be there, and by isolating yourself, you not only lose contact with them but also lose any chance to intervene.
However, over the last few months, Twitter/X has clearly become a propaganda tool that promotes a particular worldview (I won't say "a political party" because Elon Musk's project seems broader than just U.S. politics).
I feel like the protagonist of A Clockwork Orange: in one quick scroll, you'll see explosions, puppies, tits, Nazi supporters, and Elon Musk's tweets all mixed together.
Now, i agree it's time to leave the platform. He is going way too far using a social network to push his own agenda, is too evident why he spent 60 billon on this.
However, over the last few months, Twitter/X has clearly become a propaganda tool that promotes a particular worldview (I won't say "a political party" because Elon Musk's project seems broader than just U.S. politics).
I feel like the protagonist of A Clockwork Orange: in one quick scroll, you'll see explosions, puppies, tits, Nazi supporters, and Elon Musk's tweets all mixed together.
Now, i agree it's time to leave the platform. He is going way too far using a social network to push his own agenda, is too evident why he spent 60 billon on this.
I tried signing back up a couple weeks ago and despite not following and then blocking Elon, and only following non and a-political topics, I was inundated with right wing propaganda. Every 4-5th post was from Elon or similar. It was too distracting to use normally so I deleted my account and moved on.
Once again flagged, it's becoming an issue :(.
I see more and more post disappearing and since you can't vouch unless the post is completely dead it just gets buried.
I see more and more post disappearing and since you can't vouch unless the post is completely dead it just gets buried.
Bluesky is the closest thing to Twitter nowadays. Was hoping for Threads to work out but it seems less organic than Bluesky.
If you do do this, consider leaving your tweets/posts up: there's already quite a lot of link rot out there.
I don't think leaving tweets up is much of a good idea since they will be fed into grok. Additionally, they made it clear in the TOS that they will sue users for breaking the TOS, so imo it's best to get out of there sooner than later.
Funny, I was thinking this was a "go all in or Wayland" and stop using X.
But I already did quit, remobed my X ID a few months ago.
But I already did quit, remobed my X ID a few months ago.
Hahaha people here got so upset that there wasn't unity of support for quitting X, that they flagged the post.
[deleted]
The people fleeing X are leaving because they are being exposed to views that they disagree with and they can't stand to see it, except bluesky and mastadon are even more draconian and capricious than before Elon buying it. I'm staying because finally the views that I agree with are being exposed better, but still 50% of my feed is dominated by views that I disagree with but I can at least tolerate it now.
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If you’re going to quit one thing just to transition into some other thing you’re not really doing anything.
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Site is down.
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Site seems like it was hugged to death.
My initial take on this is that it's probably just another one of a thousand "let's self-sort ourselves by political bias".
BlueSky has a CP problem (enter "does BlueSky have a CP problem" into your favorite search engine). BlueSky also has a problem with moderation; the pile-ons are trying to eradicate opposing (read: non-leftist) points of view. Don't take my word for it; it's even been reported here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42159454
Facebook is full of ads, but at least finally Meta (or at least Zuckerberg) decided to ditch the "fact checkers" which were just a thin veneer over "suppressing non-leftist points-of-view".
X seems fun to me now but I am nervous that Yaccarino is starting to deviate from Musk's free speech vision in order to appease advertising cartels.
Truth is a right wing echo chamber.
Gab is an anti-semitic cesspool.
Telegram is annoying as its subscription/follow model is spammy.
No experience with Parler.
So overall I'm happy with X. YMMV. Don't put yourself in an echo chamber.
My initial take on this is that it's probably just another one of a thousand "let's self-sort ourselves by political bias".
BlueSky has a CP problem (enter "does BlueSky have a CP problem" into your favorite search engine). BlueSky also has a problem with moderation; the pile-ons are trying to eradicate opposing (read: non-leftist) points of view. Don't take my word for it; it's even been reported here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42159454
Facebook is full of ads, but at least finally Meta (or at least Zuckerberg) decided to ditch the "fact checkers" which were just a thin veneer over "suppressing non-leftist points-of-view".
X seems fun to me now but I am nervous that Yaccarino is starting to deviate from Musk's free speech vision in order to appease advertising cartels.
Truth is a right wing echo chamber.
Gab is an anti-semitic cesspool.
Telegram is annoying as its subscription/follow model is spammy.
No experience with Parler.
So overall I'm happy with X. YMMV. Don't put yourself in an echo chamber.
I think the reason why Twitter is problematic isn't Musk, but is directly related to the structure of Twitter, thus Bluesky will eventually inherit exactly the same problems.
The underlying issue is that the structure of these services is short form and uni-directional. It's the internet's megaphone. This is great celebrities and media outlets, because it acts more as a megaphone than as a discussion forum. However, it is also great for low-information, bumper-sticker politics. The limited text entry deliberately disincentivizes nuance, thus will not be conducive to good-faith disagreement, and instead forces participants into a team sports style of arguing.
Perhaps there is a local minima where each political paradigm ends up on a different system, but social networks are natural monopolies, especially when they take the form of a megaphone. Thus, they should always try to reorganize themselves into a single provider, leading to the exact same conflict-prone environment that was created on Twitter. That Bluesky now feels peasant now is exactly that the user base is a self-selected group, as one of the platforms becomes dominant again, one can only assume the conflict-prone structure of the service will again assert itself.
For now, I'll stay on Reddit. Admittedly imperfect, but it's a place where nuance can and does show up.
The underlying issue is that the structure of these services is short form and uni-directional. It's the internet's megaphone. This is great celebrities and media outlets, because it acts more as a megaphone than as a discussion forum. However, it is also great for low-information, bumper-sticker politics. The limited text entry deliberately disincentivizes nuance, thus will not be conducive to good-faith disagreement, and instead forces participants into a team sports style of arguing.
Perhaps there is a local minima where each political paradigm ends up on a different system, but social networks are natural monopolies, especially when they take the form of a megaphone. Thus, they should always try to reorganize themselves into a single provider, leading to the exact same conflict-prone environment that was created on Twitter. That Bluesky now feels peasant now is exactly that the user base is a self-selected group, as one of the platforms becomes dominant again, one can only assume the conflict-prone structure of the service will again assert itself.
For now, I'll stay on Reddit. Admittedly imperfect, but it's a place where nuance can and does show up.
That ship sailed a while ago
why do people feel so strongly about this? presumably you're only engaging with those you follow, which is at your discretion. does it really matter what platform they're on?
Honestly, I just quit using social media entirely for the most part.
It’s been really mentally liberating.
It’s been really mentally liberating.
Apart from HN, which other sites do you continue to participate in?
Mastodon, but infrequently.
But I like X :(
Let's not.
I don't understand the obsession with hating on X/Musk right now. He has his opinions, but X is still a great platform, and last I checked, Mastodon and Bluesky still feel like echo chambers (and the latter has a lot of... furry content). In the quiet, it feels like the media moved from hating Trump to hating Musk, and people are now obsessing over amplifying that message. But for what gain? It all kind of reminds me of Two Minutes Hate from 1984.
I am a conservative but I can't imagine how anyone is not tired of Musk at this point.
Not 1984 but just standard 20th century type dangerous cult of personality with one person having way too much power.
Not 1984 but just standard 20th century type dangerous cult of personality with one person having way too much power.
I'm not a big fan of Musk either outside of Tesla/SpaceX/StarLink.
But if it's not Musk, it's the DNC, if it's not the DNC, it's someone else. I don't see how it detracts from X still being a good platform. You have to curate your TL, yes -- but you've always had to do that!
But if it's not Musk, it's the DNC, if it's not the DNC, it's someone else. I don't see how it detracts from X still being a good platform. You have to curate your TL, yes -- but you've always had to do that!
Perhaps there's a little bit too much reporting on him.
I have no interest in EM. I joined an anime themed Mastodon instance and left two months later as all I could read was EM hatred. I wasn't interested in EM to begin with!
FTR the old Twitter was as bad as the new X for those who strayed just a bit from whatever was the trend, in my experience.
Musk's politics aside, content on X has been getting less and less accessible. APIs have been shut down and it seems you need to be logged in to view most posts now. That means if you're a content creator relying on X as your main distribution channel, you now have less reach than ever before. The platform also seems overrun with bots. I'm not on X so can't speak directly to the moderation policy, but from reading others' accounts it seems inconsistent and, at best, not the bastion of free speech that Musk promised when he bought it.
Some of these problems pre-dated Musk's acquisition of Twitter, and some of them will no doubt eventually plague BlueSky as well. But that is kind of the way of social media, nothing lasts forever and people tend to hop from one sinking ship to another.
As for not understanding why people hate Musk. I am loathe to get into politics on this site, but he is (himself) actively using X as a platform to meddle and stoke tensions in a number of democracies throughout the world. That is part of why a lot of people dislike him, and it also casts further doubt on X's future viability as a global content distribution channel, if countries start blocking it.
Some of these problems pre-dated Musk's acquisition of Twitter, and some of them will no doubt eventually plague BlueSky as well. But that is kind of the way of social media, nothing lasts forever and people tend to hop from one sinking ship to another.
As for not understanding why people hate Musk. I am loathe to get into politics on this site, but he is (himself) actively using X as a platform to meddle and stoke tensions in a number of democracies throughout the world. That is part of why a lot of people dislike him, and it also casts further doubt on X's future viability as a global content distribution channel, if countries start blocking it.
> As for not understanding why people hate Musk. I am loathe to get into politics on this site, but he is (himself) actively using X as a platform to meddle and stoke tensions in a number of democracies throughout the world.
What do you think was happening on Twitter before Musk turned it into X?
What do you think was happening on Twitter before Musk turned it into X?
It's not hate but unwillingness to support a guy promoting extreme right wing Nazi parties in Europe. That's a no go in my agenda. The only reason I don't delete my profile is I don't want anyone to use my name.
It is exactly that.
Yeah it's a conspiracy of the media, not even supporting neonazis salvages him from the hate : ' (
Musk turned twitter into a far right echo chamber. Make a new account and navigate to the "for you" page: all you see is Elon Musk, Alex Jones, Andrew Tate and other far right "role models".
The media moved from hating Trump to Musk because the latter appears to hold more political power over the former, he already got his ways on H1B visas and a few other issues.
Musk also appears quite pathetic/sociopathic to non-MAGAs. He has many children he barely sees and often insults online, he was caught lying about a video game recently, and that's not even bringing up the sexual assault allegations.
He also switched from supporting Obama and considering himself a socialist to becoming the largest donor of the GOP in a few years.
Also, please reread Big Brother, because that comparison is very misplaced.
The media moved from hating Trump to Musk because the latter appears to hold more political power over the former, he already got his ways on H1B visas and a few other issues.
Musk also appears quite pathetic/sociopathic to non-MAGAs. He has many children he barely sees and often insults online, he was caught lying about a video game recently, and that's not even bringing up the sexual assault allegations.
He also switched from supporting Obama and considering himself a socialist to becoming the largest donor of the GOP in a few years.
Also, please reread Big Brother, because that comparison is very misplaced.
Heck yeah I'm down, I already deleted my personal account a while ago. Professional one is next.
When are we quitting telegram by the way?
When are we quitting telegram by the way?
Quitting x to move to another x clone is a copout. Quit x and move to nothing(or real life)
No.
>Why am I leaving X? Under Elon Musk, X has become a machine for manipulating opinion. Let's refuse to be complicit. [...] let's take back control by leaving X collectively for alternatives that respect free speech.
This is, excuse my French, either incredibly fucking stupid or extremely disingenuous. I'm not going to go over every case of censorship under previous management, but it was all astoundingly evident: there was an aberrant woke bias whereby they strongly silenced everything even just a tad unaligned with that reality-denying, pseudomoralistic, corporativist ideology that the powers that be has so brutally taken advantage of.
If I quit X (I did), it wasn't because it turned into an echo chamber--on the contrary, it stopped being one, as it is now pretty balanced, according to data on it. It was rather because its fundamental design was already focused on compulsive, mindless consumption of junk, and now it's that, but increased manyfold, exactly the same as the abhorrent characteristics that make it more of a walled-garden. I cannot use it just on principle. To my mind, the web should be open and discovery of content should respect intentional and sovereign behavior, not promote addiction and lack of mental hygiene.
This is, excuse my French, either incredibly fucking stupid or extremely disingenuous. I'm not going to go over every case of censorship under previous management, but it was all astoundingly evident: there was an aberrant woke bias whereby they strongly silenced everything even just a tad unaligned with that reality-denying, pseudomoralistic, corporativist ideology that the powers that be has so brutally taken advantage of.
If I quit X (I did), it wasn't because it turned into an echo chamber--on the contrary, it stopped being one, as it is now pretty balanced, according to data on it. It was rather because its fundamental design was already focused on compulsive, mindless consumption of junk, and now it's that, but increased manyfold, exactly the same as the abhorrent characteristics that make it more of a walled-garden. I cannot use it just on principle. To my mind, the web should be open and discovery of content should respect intentional and sovereign behavior, not promote addiction and lack of mental hygiene.
joemazerino(2)
Sure, leave already. Dig a hole. Go into your cave. Watch shadows. Smoke weed. Stick your fingers in your ears. Close your eyes. Hate. Then hate some more. Be a solipsist high-fiving other solipsists.
Honestly, how pathetic. The liberal is the man who doesn't want to talk or listen to anyone who disagrees with him. It's not hard to understand why half the country hates Musk and their fellow citizens on X, but listening is fundamental to maintenance of the polis. Anyhow, I'm on both X and BlueSky.
Honestly, how pathetic. The liberal is the man who doesn't want to talk or listen to anyone who disagrees with him. It's not hard to understand why half the country hates Musk and their fellow citizens on X, but listening is fundamental to maintenance of the polis. Anyhow, I'm on both X and BlueSky.
No, let’s not.
Why would one want to to quit X and move to the same kind of platform somewhere else?
Go ahead and leave. I'm staying.
It is consistently astonishing that the IT sector is predominantly inhabited by individuals of a leftist persuasion, despite the fact that disciplines such as programming ought to instil a strong foundation in mathematics, logic, and structured thinking, which are typically associated with right-leaning thinking.
You spelled authoritarian wrong.
My profile in case you want to follow: https://bsky.app/profile/xeiaso.net