US plans to automatically register young men for military draft(bbc.com)
bbc.com
US plans to automatically register young men for military draft
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd6lx2lpl9xo
64 comments
You can't vote, but you can die for Israel.
Also, you can be automatically registered for the draft, but automatically registering people to vote is a culture war issue.
I wish this were hyperbolic. Sadly, the memes have become reality (was it always reality?)
This isn't as big of a deal as people are hyping it up to be. This (and things like including women) has been talked about for a while now. Men have been required to register for selective service during all recent times. This just saves you the trouble of going to the post office to fill out the form (or maybe it's online finally).
Now all that Social Media, Google account data, online banking info etc. comes home to roost.
Unlike Vietnam, one can no longer hide from government in times of unrest.
Perhaps that's the wake-up call privacy needs.
Unlike Vietnam, one can no longer hide from government in times of unrest.
Perhaps that's the wake-up call privacy needs.
No biggie, you can always develop bonespurs!
> you can always develop bonespurs
I've looked into it, and this ailment is weirdly linked to the wealth of your parents.
I've looked into it, and this ailment is weirdly linked to the wealth of your parents.
Ah, that's the Rich Man's Burden, it weighs heavily on the bone (spurs).
> A vast majority of US states and territories also automatically register men for selective service when driver's licenses are issued.
I think a lot of people either (understandably) forgot or didn't pay attention to the details of when they got their driver's license, or we have a bot problem spreading toxic propaganda.
The majority of men are already registered. I agree this is not controversial.
I think a lot of people either (understandably) forgot or didn't pay attention to the details of when they got their driver's license, or we have a bot problem spreading toxic propaganda.
The majority of men are already registered. I agree this is not controversial.
usually things are controversial in context.
its bizarre when people act like the preceding day, week, month, etc has no bearing on the weight of activities. same with who makes the decisions and their biases
if you want to present the history of why now, go ahead but acting like a gollygeewhiz LLM about it is bizzare and incurious.
its bizarre when people act like the preceding day, week, month, etc has no bearing on the weight of activities. same with who makes the decisions and their biases
if you want to present the history of why now, go ahead but acting like a gollygeewhiz LLM about it is bizzare and incurious.
It’s funny how mandatory registration and tracking is fine in the US when it’s in support of war or to track minority groups, but impossible when the aim is serving the public, increasing access or safety.
Why not do the same, but for voting?
>The new rule, proposed by a government agency, would see men being registered automatically rather than being asked to do so themselves within 30 days of their 18th birthday.
Honest question: Why is there no such auto registration for women?
Honest question: Why is there no such auto registration for women?
Women are currently not required or allowed to register for selective service. It doesn't make sense to automatically register them for something they're not allowed to register for.
Because it's a polite fiction that men and women are equally capable and expendable at warfare. Successful and enduring human societies practice traditions around warfare that reflect this.
It's more that women are the less expendable gender. If you send the women to die on the front lines, who is going to birth the next generation to replenish your population?
I mean, the mongols were probably the most successful military, taking on armies five times their size with better metalworks. They used women as fighters. Japanese Bushi ('samurai' class) also had women in their ranks, and Celtic traditions had women not only serving in the army, but very often as arms teachers (military instructor), and sometimes war leaders. Some of the army leaders who troubled Rome the most were women. You can also take a look at the Vikings if you want a fourth example.
The fact is, western military traditions it sexist for no good reason. Yes, the strongest woman will be weaker than the strongest man. Yes, it you take a sport like swordfighting, the best woman will be at the level of the 50th best man. But we're not talking about taking champions on a 1 on 1 duel here. We aren't even talking about fighting. What really matters in armies is endurance, and women are close enough to men on that that it shouldn't really matter.
And even if you want to think of war as a succession of duels, war have changed in the last century. Women are just better as shooting than men, especially when standing.
The fact is, western military traditions it sexist for no good reason. Yes, the strongest woman will be weaker than the strongest man. Yes, it you take a sport like swordfighting, the best woman will be at the level of the 50th best man. But we're not talking about taking champions on a 1 on 1 duel here. We aren't even talking about fighting. What really matters in armies is endurance, and women are close enough to men on that that it shouldn't really matter.
And even if you want to think of war as a succession of duels, war have changed in the last century. Women are just better as shooting than men, especially when standing.
In fact, women tend to outdo men in extreme endurance competition. It’s part of the trade-off for a lower ceiling on absolute strength.
But yes, in modern warfare there are as many jobs if not more that require precision or some level of intelligence as those that require brute strength. Even if fewer of them are right at the front line, they’re just as important.
You don’t send a large percentage of women to the front line in wars of attrition because their deaths mean a greater loss of future reproductive capacity than men’s do. But the way countries like the US have waged war over the last 75 years (with a relatively small surface area of soldiers put directly at risk), that’s less of a consideration. The counterpoint might be a border war without massive air superiority on either side like the current one in Ukraine.
But yes, in modern warfare there are as many jobs if not more that require precision or some level of intelligence as those that require brute strength. Even if fewer of them are right at the front line, they’re just as important.
You don’t send a large percentage of women to the front line in wars of attrition because their deaths mean a greater loss of future reproductive capacity than men’s do. But the way countries like the US have waged war over the last 75 years (with a relatively small surface area of soldiers put directly at risk), that’s less of a consideration. The counterpoint might be a border war without massive air superiority on either side like the current one in Ukraine.
Not just endurance sports. Anecdotal evidence, but female rock climbers have been more skilled in my experience. Perhaps because the brute force escape hatch isn't as available.
Rock climbing is pretty weird. At the top level, it is clear male athletes have most advantages: height, and shoulder strength, that make routes designed for male very hard to compete on for most female athlete.
On the other hand, routes set for female athlete are also very hard for males to compete on. Some of them you can bruteforce (with strenght a la Janja, or with size), but some of them male joints just can't handle the rotations needed.
Still, a male athlete would do better on female route than a female athlete would on male routes imho (at the top level, at mine it just doesn't matter).
But when you're rock climbing in montains with people who have the same experience, yeah, women tends to do better. And even when you're the most experienced, women tends to get better faster especially when you're doing "multi-pitch climbing" (google translate on this, i hope that's right) for a few days in a row.
On the other hand, routes set for female athlete are also very hard for males to compete on. Some of them you can bruteforce (with strenght a la Janja, or with size), but some of them male joints just can't handle the rotations needed.
Still, a male athlete would do better on female route than a female athlete would on male routes imho (at the top level, at mine it just doesn't matter).
But when you're rock climbing in montains with people who have the same experience, yeah, women tends to do better. And even when you're the most experienced, women tends to get better faster especially when you're doing "multi-pitch climbing" (google translate on this, i hope that's right) for a few days in a row.
Would agree.
There's another thing that's a little odd. Tall men rock climbers tends to do better, but among women, it's the smaller ones who seem to be better.
There's another thing that's a little odd. Tall men rock climbers tends to do better, but among women, it's the smaller ones who seem to be better.
Perhaps related to something like weight to strength ratio? Reach doesn’t help all that much if you can’t hold your full weight.
There are roles other than infantry in war, right?
It would require an extremely unpopular change of law. I also believe women should be available for conscription.
Maybe because according to the same government philosophy a woman's place is in the kitchen or something?
Will trans men and women be automatically registered too? Since the US military has previously kicked out all trans people
Not sure about US but since another comment linked to an article about Germany, there you cannot avoid conscription by changing gender.
The fact that conscription is gender based should be challenged in the courts. Either there is equal society or not
Weird we have this technology but not the technology for automatic voter registration, or automatic tax filing...
Draft registration is compulsory based on residency; registering someone in error has no consequences unless there is a draft, which seems unlikely (no draft since Vietnam, large differences in how the US carries out war since then). In the event of erroneous registration when there is an active draft, past procedure was to allow time to reply and object, including through court process, so an erroneous registration would hopefully not leas to erroneous compulsory military service and associated risks. Not registering has potentially life long consequences that you may not be able to fix after you age out of registration; moving responsibility off of young men and onto the government seems fair.
Voting has eligibility requirements (citizenship, felony status depending on jurisdiction of offense) and registering someone in error could induce them to vote while inelligible, which is a serious offense.
Automatic tax filing might be nice for easy situations, but there's lots of things the IRS doesn't know and can't realistically know. Like how much capital improvements did you do on your house, and maybe even how much did you pay for your house ... whenever the IRS doesn't know the cost basis, they helpfully assume it is zero and send you a big tax bill... Still for w-2 + 1099s with cost basis reported, it could be easier.
Voting has eligibility requirements (citizenship, felony status depending on jurisdiction of offense) and registering someone in error could induce them to vote while inelligible, which is a serious offense.
Automatic tax filing might be nice for easy situations, but there's lots of things the IRS doesn't know and can't realistically know. Like how much capital improvements did you do on your house, and maybe even how much did you pay for your house ... whenever the IRS doesn't know the cost basis, they helpfully assume it is zero and send you a big tax bill... Still for w-2 + 1099s with cost basis reported, it could be easier.
In many countries, having citizenship means you are registered to vote. It is pretty convenient. Just show your ID card and you can vote.
It is also worth noting that in these countries it is significantly less hassle and lower monetary costs to get an ID card than in the USA.
The US has no compulsory ID. Parents are not even required to register births; medical professionals are, though, and a lot of things become challenging without a birth certificate, so I imagine the vast majority of births are registered. It's only within the past few decades that children were registered with social security at birth, instead of later. My siblings and I were only registered when it became necessary to get a credit on my parents's taxes; my parents were registered when they began to seek employment.
But none of those reasons are technical limitations. They are political.
The “system” knows who can vote, even if there might not be a unified system currently to automatically validate that.
Same with taxes. These things can be automatically reported at the time of purchase.
The “system” knows who can vote, even if there might not be a unified system currently to automatically validate that.
Same with taxes. These things can be automatically reported at the time of purchase.
> These things can be automatically reported at the time of purchase.
Eh, not really. In my previous house, I redid the master bath twice (because the first contractor did a bad job). They both qualified to increase my cost basis when they were done, but the first time no longer qualified after the second... That's theoretically trackable through some seriously invasive purchase recording, but realistically, not so much.
Citizenship is also trickier than it sounds. There's no full and complete register of US citizens to compare with. Better to have someone declare they are, and jail them if they vote and it turns out they aren't.
Eh, not really. In my previous house, I redid the master bath twice (because the first contractor did a bad job). They both qualified to increase my cost basis when they were done, but the first time no longer qualified after the second... That's theoretically trackable through some seriously invasive purchase recording, but realistically, not so much.
Citizenship is also trickier than it sounds. There's no full and complete register of US citizens to compare with. Better to have someone declare they are, and jail them if they vote and it turns out they aren't.
I'd love to but have these bone-spurs, ouch.
It's just a change to the already mandatory registration. It doesn't mean they are going to call up the draft.
>It doesn't mean they are going to call up the draft.
Are you aware of the concept of "boiling the frog"?
2027: "It's just calling up the draft. It doesn't mean they are going to be sent to the frontline."
Are you aware of the concept of "boiling the frog"?
2027: "It's just calling up the draft. It doesn't mean they are going to be sent to the frontline."
I'm genuinely perplexed as to why this story was flagged.
As multiple commenters have pointed out, this is actually not new(e.g you get registered when you get your driver's license).
I wonder why flagging brigade on HN has such a thin skin when it comes to anything even remotely critical of the current govt.
As multiple commenters have pointed out, this is actually not new(e.g you get registered when you get your driver's license).
I wonder why flagging brigade on HN has such a thin skin when it comes to anything even remotely critical of the current govt.
It's going to be much more useful to register all drones, robots, and AI systems once they reach 18 years of age.
Why? This seems so anachronistic. In the age of drones and AI, manpower is not going to be your limiting factor.
War hysteria is on peak. [0]
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-w...
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-w...
United States is immune from conventional military attack, the only purpose of mass conscription is to create an expeditionary for invading other countries. You have to wonder whether this may be for Canada / Greenland at some point
Conventional being the key word. Yes, I know that usually is in contrast to nuclear warfare.
There’s really no motivation for China to attack the US (they have plenty of economic leverage and that would be far less costly to them than an invasion, and what would they even want with the territory of a conquered US?) but I suspect many of the reasons the US is assumed to be immune to invasion are far weaker in the face of an enemy with far more manpower and a near-bottomless supply of drones that also has the capacity to cut off our access to key parts, materials, and manufactured goods.
There’s really no motivation for China to attack the US (they have plenty of economic leverage and that would be far less costly to them than an invasion, and what would they even want with the territory of a conquered US?) but I suspect many of the reasons the US is assumed to be immune to invasion are far weaker in the face of an enemy with far more manpower and a near-bottomless supply of drones that also has the capacity to cut off our access to key parts, materials, and manufactured goods.
Yes, I suppose it makes no sense to have bases all over the world then.
If enough people at position of influence fear that a war is coming, the fear itself will realize the anticipated event. Preemptive strikes will be the trigger.
There is some truth to, what was it, Soros' reflexivity.
There is some truth to, what was it, Soros' reflexivity.
I never registered for the selective service and never faced any consequences. Maybe this is a more efficient means of closing these gaps while simultaneously saving the government tons of money.
No student loans? No government job? There are consequences but they're easy to resolve.
I never had problems with any of those.
You were probably registered when you got a drivers license.
The point remains that I never registered. So either registration doesn’t matter or some other automated process did it for me. Therefore the process should just be automated in a single uniform way to save the government money.
Everything for Israel!
Is this democratic?
Democratic means giving all citizens a say in government. What are you trying to convey with the word?
OK, wrong word. I meant if automatically registering young men for military service is something that can be done in a democratic society. It seems like you're making young men potentially go to war regardless of how they feel about it.
Seems something that is the mark of an authoritarian society.
Seems something that is the mark of an authoritarian society.
in the future no sign-up will be required for misguided adventurism in the middle east and beyond!
What if my name is Claude? Am I exempt?