Aging and Eye Problems(ldstephens.net)
ldstephens.net
Aging and Eye Problems
https://ldstephens.net/posts/aging-and-eye-problems/
88 comments
Optical engineer here. This is what they don't tell you about continuous/transition/progressive bifocals: optically they don't work. The lens design is an overconstrained optimization problem and the solutions they come up with end up compromising a lot on everything, to the point that it is practically useless.
I got my first set of progressive lenses in safety glasses earlier this year as a way to try them out. Based on that experience, I switched my daily glasses to progressives in May and love them.
Once or twice a day, I notice a visual artifact that I perceive to be in my left peripheral vision, and of course I sometimes need to move my head slightly to see something, but being able to see clearly at all distances with relative ease is the exact opposite of “practically useless” IMO.
Once or twice a day, I notice a visual artifact that I perceive to be in my left peripheral vision, and of course I sometimes need to move my head slightly to see something, but being able to see clearly at all distances with relative ease is the exact opposite of “practically useless” IMO.
> This is what they don't tell you about continuous/transition/progressive bifocals: optically they don't work.
I'll defer to your judgement re optical properties, but I want to offer a counter-anecdote about practicality.
I've had myopia and have been wearing negative diopter glasses for over half my life. I've never needed vision correction for reading. This is not an unusual combination, and if you want a celebrity example, watch some old Apple keynote videos with the late Steve Jobs, who would repeatedly lift his glasses to read something on the phone in his hand. This "works", but can be inconvenient in some situations.
A while ago, I started thinking about progressive bifocals. Cursory web searches told me that my particular combo was impractical. My optician didn't see a problem, so I decided to trust him and got a pair made. The TLDR is that they work for me much better than the old ones. There was a period of adaptation. Going downstairs and looking at the floor/ground were a bit disorienting for a while, but i don't notice it any more. Switching between the monitor and the phone or paper in front of me works, which is why I wanted the bifocals in the first place. I only use the old glasses for watching TV, probably meaning that my TV-watching posture sucks, but fortunately I don't watch a lot of TV. I still take off the glasses for sustained book reading.
I'll defer to your judgement re optical properties, but I want to offer a counter-anecdote about practicality.
I've had myopia and have been wearing negative diopter glasses for over half my life. I've never needed vision correction for reading. This is not an unusual combination, and if you want a celebrity example, watch some old Apple keynote videos with the late Steve Jobs, who would repeatedly lift his glasses to read something on the phone in his hand. This "works", but can be inconvenient in some situations.
A while ago, I started thinking about progressive bifocals. Cursory web searches told me that my particular combo was impractical. My optician didn't see a problem, so I decided to trust him and got a pair made. The TLDR is that they work for me much better than the old ones. There was a period of adaptation. Going downstairs and looking at the floor/ground were a bit disorienting for a while, but i don't notice it any more. Switching between the monitor and the phone or paper in front of me works, which is why I wanted the bifocals in the first place. I only use the old glasses for watching TV, probably meaning that my TV-watching posture sucks, but fortunately I don't watch a lot of TV. I still take off the glasses for sustained book reading.
What's your lay of the land when it comes to different glass qualities and glass thickness options? Stores here (nordics) have around 4 different glass qualities for progressives, with varying and opaque names like "better" and "supreme". Thickness starts with 1.6 but store people push for 1.67 or 1.74.
I get strong upselling vibes, but hard to say. (Is the "supreme plus" noticeably better than "supreme" or merely there for upsell anchoring effect, to make people pick "supreme" without feeling they overspent?)
Are there high quality information resources for consumers on what the underlying lens material and processing technologies are?
Search HN for "ABBE". The very cheapest material has the highest optical quality. Thinner ones are for weight, which matters if you have strong prescriptions. Weight can also be countered with a smaller frame height/width, which might require a vintage or designer frame, but that's a one time cost that can used with cheaper and higher optical quality lens replacements.
Aren't the bifocals just a convenience over quality? It's inconvenient to wear two sets of glasses, but why would one wear bifocals while driving? This convenience can come at a high price!
Bifocals in general are quite useful. It's nice to be able to see the road and the speedometer using the same lenses.
Traditional bifocals and progressives are different beasts. The hard outline on traditional bifocals means you get essentially two different lenses, both able to function as intended. The soft blend on progressives means you get essentially one big blurry lens that does not have well defined properties anywhere.
Traditional bifocals and progressives are different beasts. The hard outline on traditional bifocals means you get essentially two different lenses, both able to function as intended. The soft blend on progressives means you get essentially one big blurry lens that does not have well defined properties anywhere.
> The soft blend on progressives means you get essentially one big blurry lens that does not have well defined properties anywhere.
That seems to be exactly my experience with them, stated very succinctly. I've had these about 9 months and I'm still struggling with the ergonomics daily. I think I made the wrong choice.
That seems to be exactly my experience with them, stated very succinctly. I've had these about 9 months and I'm still struggling with the ergonomics daily. I think I made the wrong choice.
I used the wrong term, sorry. My concern applies to both bifocals and progressive lenses, though: aren't drivers trading off convenience over safety? Shouldn't we have at least two pairs of glasses - one for driving, and another for everything else?
When driving, I need to see things far away (mostly) but also on my dash/instrument cluster.
I am near-sighted overall and have needed distance glasses all my driving life. I got progressives last year and driving is safer now as I have a small area that I can use to clearly (and quickly!) read the instruments, the radio (read: map), defroster controls, etc.
In my case, not having multi-focal lenses was prioritizing convenience/laziness/cost over safety.
I am near-sighted overall and have needed distance glasses all my driving life. I got progressives last year and driving is safer now as I have a small area that I can use to clearly (and quickly!) read the instruments, the radio (read: map), defroster controls, etc.
In my case, not having multi-focal lenses was prioritizing convenience/laziness/cost over safety.
No worries, I understood your intent!
The impact is a lot less than you may expect. Brains are ridiculously good at filling in incomplete information. For example, did you know that you have a roughly sun-sized blind spot slightly off center in each eye (where the optic nerve attaches)?
Now imagine needing to switch glasses to read your dash. Inconvenient and unsafe!
The impact is a lot less than you may expect. Brains are ridiculously good at filling in incomplete information. For example, did you know that you have a roughly sun-sized blind spot slightly off center in each eye (where the optic nerve attaches)?
Now imagine needing to switch glasses to read your dash. Inconvenient and unsafe!
But for actual use, especially screens and reading, the tradeoff can be pretty bad
Search for "Chemistrie" magnetic lens attachment in +0.5 increments. They can even stack for different focal lengths, e.g. reading vs computer screen at 36". Magnets embed in primary glasses. Expensive via local opticians, they will retrofit via mail order and buychemistrie dot com.
>to the point that it is practically useless.
And yet I know many people who use them and love them. So?
And yet I know many people who use them and love them. So?
The human brain mostly adapts. Big Optical makes $$$$ billions. A small percentage of human brains have persistent dizziness and depth perception errors, which can lead to physical injury and reduced quality of life. We don't have yet have a test funded by disablity insurance, which can determine which brains might fail to adapt.
The good news is that multiple glasses have never been cheaper or more accessible, so progressives are entirely a choice.
The good news is that multiple glasses have never been cheaper or more accessible, so progressives are entirely a choice.
>The human brain mostly adapts. A small percentage of human brains have persistent dizziness and depth perception errors, which can lead to physical injury and reduced quality of life
That's a fine argument, which I accept. Not the same as "practically useless", which was the original argument.
That's a fine argument, which I accept. Not the same as "practically useless", which was the original argument.
Oh so much.
Progressives here. The very bottom irritates me to no end during the day. If I drive in the morning or walk around I feel absolutely horrible. Like I'm drunk.
Sure, if I need to read something really really close on my phone in the evening, when the eyes have gone tired it's kinda OK. I do need to focus on the bottom of the glasses.
But I still (after months) usually just look straight ahead (sometimes that "mid section" is not right for what I'm looking at) or I need to intentionally look down, in order to actually look through the top of my glasses.
I think the progressives are worse than getting two pairs, but I can't tell for sure yet, since this is the first time for me and I believed the optometrist who recommended progressives (from own experience, being a little older than myself).
I will have to try the other way soon I guess.
Like right now, evening, I can't read this screen on the bottom of the glasses. The laptop is too far away. To look through the top, I have to look down. Like "double chin territory".
At normal cell phone distance, I can't use the bottom part. It's sorta blurry. I need to try and find the middle. Which is the smallest sections (I don't have huge glasses. Maybe an inch top to bottom, which all the progression has to fit into.
Progressives here. The very bottom irritates me to no end during the day. If I drive in the morning or walk around I feel absolutely horrible. Like I'm drunk.
Sure, if I need to read something really really close on my phone in the evening, when the eyes have gone tired it's kinda OK. I do need to focus on the bottom of the glasses.
But I still (after months) usually just look straight ahead (sometimes that "mid section" is not right for what I'm looking at) or I need to intentionally look down, in order to actually look through the top of my glasses.
I think the progressives are worse than getting two pairs, but I can't tell for sure yet, since this is the first time for me and I believed the optometrist who recommended progressives (from own experience, being a little older than myself).
I will have to try the other way soon I guess.
Like right now, evening, I can't read this screen on the bottom of the glasses. The laptop is too far away. To look through the top, I have to look down. Like "double chin territory".
At normal cell phone distance, I can't use the bottom part. It's sorta blurry. I need to try and find the middle. Which is the smallest sections (I don't have huge glasses. Maybe an inch top to bottom, which all the progression has to fit into.
I'm trying progressive lenses again after throwing them in the trash a few years ago. The distortion is the worst part for me. Moving my head around makes the world warped as it moves between zones. Maybe I'd get used to it if I forced myself to wear them all the time but I spend most of my day WFH and wearing a weak version of my distance prescription that lets me focus on my monitor yet see reasonably well around the house without too much eyestrain.
Progressives maximize legal compliance for automobile driving, with bonus impact on optical industry profits.
Multiple lenses for different focal lengths are now affordable and practical and offer higher optical quality and more comfort.
Multiple lenses for different focal lengths are now affordable and practical and offer higher optical quality and more comfort.
Knew a friend who was a doctor. Said your brain is very malleable and adaptive.
If you wear them for a week, you will probably adapt and stop noticing the progressives, even walking around and going up/down stairs.
If you wear them for a week, you will probably adapt and stop noticing the progressives, even walking around and going up/down stairs.
Yeah they told me the same.
But it doesn't work that way. I've had them for months now and I still notice them. While walking, while looking around. While driving.
Is it much better? Yes.
Stop noticing? Heck no.
I'm still giving it some time but I really don't like the sudden weird feeling I still get from time to time. And I can't even figure out why it's fine much of the time and then suddenly I get that weird feeling again.
And just having to double chin it to see the ground in front of you is so annoying.
But it doesn't work that way. I've had them for months now and I still notice them. While walking, while looking around. While driving.
Is it much better? Yes.
Stop noticing? Heck no.
I'm still giving it some time but I really don't like the sudden weird feeling I still get from time to time. And I can't even figure out why it's fine much of the time and then suddenly I get that weird feeling again.
And just having to double chin it to see the ground in front of you is so annoying.
I've had progressives for years. They suck, universally.
I've had mine about 9 months and I definitely still notice the distortion. I'm glad to see my opinion validated here. My doctor talked the progressives up, and maybe a lot of people do like them, but I'm definitely ready to try the traditional split lens.
I've been wearing progressives for around 30 years. The only time I haven't had a good experience was once when my optometrist at the time retired and I foolishly tried a few of the chain optical stores. It's hard to say whether it was the doctor doing the exam or the person measuring me for glasses, but I ended up returning several pairs of glasses until I found another independent optometrist with enough experience and trained staff members to make a proper set of glasses. Since then, I've had to switch doctors several more times when they sell their practice but have gotten better about picking new ones.
I use computer glasses when staring at a screen for any length of time and I end up taking my glasses off to read e-books, one of the few benefits of being as nearsighted as I am. For everything else, the progressives work well for me. The first few pairs took close to a week for me to get used to wearing. Since then, I occasionally notice minor distortion with a new prescription but that usually goes away in a day or two.
I use computer glasses when staring at a screen for any length of time and I end up taking my glasses off to read e-books, one of the few benefits of being as nearsighted as I am. For everything else, the progressives work well for me. The first few pairs took close to a week for me to get used to wearing. Since then, I occasionally notice minor distortion with a new prescription but that usually goes away in a day or two.
> I got my first bifocals last year. I got the "no line" variety and, so far, I hate them.
They are called progressives (or multi-focal – depending on whom you speak with).
Progressives come in a few «ranges»: near-range, mid-range and all-purpose. There are also «premium» options available, although I am not entirely sure how much different they actually are.
I have found that having two separate pairs of progressives (near-range for reading, laptop use and all-purpose for everything else) works the best. All of them can also be had as the transition variety and with different tint colours, thus obviating the need for a separate pair of shades.
In fact, when I first tried the near-range progressives some 5 years ago, it was an eye-opener in the almost literal sense of the word – the laptop screen flattened and became bigger despite obviously not changing its physical size. It was something that I had struggled with for a long time before the progressives entered mainstream. At high prescription numbers, the lenses for myopia start distorting the true shape of objects which creates mild to substantial visual discomfort, and near-range progressives fix that.
Another source of discomfort might be the suboptimal «Add» number on the script for progressives. This can be fixed by going to an optometrist clinic rather that a street optometrist (or find a reputable and good one first). If the «Add» is too small, the progressives will make little difference compared to conventional lenses, and, if it is too big, they will make it difficult to see in the distance.
Based on own subjective experience, I can't recommend the progressives enough, although a little bit of fine-tuning might be required (none in my case).
They are called progressives (or multi-focal – depending on whom you speak with).
Progressives come in a few «ranges»: near-range, mid-range and all-purpose. There are also «premium» options available, although I am not entirely sure how much different they actually are.
I have found that having two separate pairs of progressives (near-range for reading, laptop use and all-purpose for everything else) works the best. All of them can also be had as the transition variety and with different tint colours, thus obviating the need for a separate pair of shades.
In fact, when I first tried the near-range progressives some 5 years ago, it was an eye-opener in the almost literal sense of the word – the laptop screen flattened and became bigger despite obviously not changing its physical size. It was something that I had struggled with for a long time before the progressives entered mainstream. At high prescription numbers, the lenses for myopia start distorting the true shape of objects which creates mild to substantial visual discomfort, and near-range progressives fix that.
Another source of discomfort might be the suboptimal «Add» number on the script for progressives. This can be fixed by going to an optometrist clinic rather that a street optometrist (or find a reputable and good one first). If the «Add» is too small, the progressives will make little difference compared to conventional lenses, and, if it is too big, they will make it difficult to see in the distance.
Based on own subjective experience, I can't recommend the progressives enough, although a little bit of fine-tuning might be required (none in my case).
Like you but it began at 51 y/o. No glasses 'till 52 y/o.
We had good runs mate!
Same: presbyopia and I hate low-light now: it's just as you wrote: better acuity in bright settings. Either during day time or with proper lighting.
Still can read signs from the car (say while on the highway) before anyone else so there's that.
Can't really share any experience as I don't have a good understanding of glasses/focals.
We had good runs mate!
Same: presbyopia and I hate low-light now: it's just as you wrote: better acuity in bright settings. Either during day time or with proper lighting.
Still can read signs from the car (say while on the highway) before anyone else so there's that.
Can't really share any experience as I don't have a good understanding of glasses/focals.
> Like you but it began at 51 y/o. No glasses 'till 52 y/o.
40s but it's been a slow grow. I got by on magnifiers until 50 or so.
I'm still on my original script. My indy eyeglasses guy got taken out by a hurricane and he was the last one. I can't bring myself to visit s vision mill.
40s but it's been a slow grow. I got by on magnifiers until 50 or so.
I'm still on my original script. My indy eyeglasses guy got taken out by a hurricane and he was the last one. I can't bring myself to visit s vision mill.
I had good luck with the eye-q device, but I am unsure if it is still made or supported. If you dont have a complex scrip, it works fine. My lenses got scratched so I just ran out of luck, dont think there's much to be done with glasses for me anytime soon.
It gives you a prescription after running it 3-6 times for each eye. It is tiring but much cheaper end-to-end than going to an OD or whatever. And just get glasses online! Dont get extorted at the "vision mills"!
It gives you a prescription after running it 3-6 times for each eye. It is tiring but much cheaper end-to-end than going to an OD or whatever. And just get glasses online! Dont get extorted at the "vision mills"!
I'm in my mid 40s and I'm now switching between three different pairs of glasses for different distances. Bifocals and progressive lenses wouldn't help given the things I need to focus on are usually directly in front of me. Changes have been happening rapidly.
I had a congenital cataract removed, and the intraocular implant can’t adjust focus like a normal lens. So I have a similar problem. Progressives suck. Bifocals also suck. Finding an optometrist who was willing to listen, experiment, and adjust three different prescriptions (distance, computer, reading), and then carrying around three pair of glasses also sucks, but it sucks the least. Accepting that this is just a thing that is part of me and that I can’t fully optimize away has made it suck less!
And I have a central floater, too! Also sucks. Sorry you’re in the same boat! Helpful optometrist tells me that vitrectomy is the only real solution and the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Another thing to accept and move on from.
And I have a central floater, too! Also sucks. Sorry you’re in the same boat! Helpful optometrist tells me that vitrectomy is the only real solution and the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Another thing to accept and move on from.
I’ve had the same issues. Bifocals are definitely better, though I now have progressives for general around town or driving purposes because I was talked into them by the saleswoman. “Oh, they’re so much better now than they used to be”. Maybe, but they’re still not great. For reading, computer and other generally fixed focal length purposes I have different, single prescription glasses.
Right in there now. On the plus side, I'm near sighted, so I don't need two sets of glasses, I can just take my glasses off.
Usually only happens when I'm tired. Bifocals are probably in my future though.
If I want to do circuit repairs, I have to do it in the morning though. Detail work is too hard on my eyes otherwise.
Usually only happens when I'm tired. Bifocals are probably in my future though.
If I want to do circuit repairs, I have to do it in the morning though. Detail work is too hard on my eyes otherwise.
after COVID i experienced macular degeneration—first in the left eye, later in the right. unfortunately, I was in a rural area of India at the time, and there was no good ophthalmologist available. So the macular degeneration was diagnosed as cataracts; which were also there, but in a nascent stage and not yet the cause of vision problems. So I got a cataract procedure done on the left eye, and it basically changed nothing.
Later I moved to Sri Lanka, where there are good eye hospitals in the local area. There I got a proper diagnosis and was discouraged from a second cataract procedure. I am controlling the macular degeneration by high doses of ocular vitamins. As far as glasses, I also found progressive lenses pretty useless, so I have two pairs: one for distance and one for computer work.
Later I moved to Sri Lanka, where there are good eye hospitals in the local area. There I got a proper diagnosis and was discouraged from a second cataract procedure. I am controlling the macular degeneration by high doses of ocular vitamins. As far as glasses, I also found progressive lenses pretty useless, so I have two pairs: one for distance and one for computer work.
FDA approved red light therapy. About USD $100 for device.
> I got my first bifocals last year. I got the "no line" variety and, so far, I hate them.
Same. I tried bifocals and they annoyed me to no end. Now it's muscle memory to move my glasses between my pocket and my face. I don't even notice I'm doing it.
Same. I tried bifocals and they annoyed me to no end. Now it's muscle memory to move my glasses between my pocket and my face. I don't even notice I'm doing it.
The camera analogy is a really good one
look into occupational glasses
Interesting. I've actually been making more use of light mode lately, even for code. Granted, I'm not that old yet but I'm almost 40, and I have astigmatism so dark mode was already difficult to read, but now I feel like its gotten much worse for me.
I lament the lack of good light theme choices though because the majority use dark mode, and dark mode is increasingly becoming the default setting which I don't particularly like, but as long as there's a choice its fine.
I don't do much work on a screen in the dark anymore though to where dark mode would be necessary. My home office is surrounded by big windows with a ton of natural light.
I lament the lack of good light theme choices though because the majority use dark mode, and dark mode is increasingly becoming the default setting which I don't particularly like, but as long as there's a choice its fine.
I don't do much work on a screen in the dark anymore though to where dark mode would be necessary. My home office is surrounded by big windows with a ton of natural light.
This. I hate dark mode because it’s difficult to read for me (myopia due to age) - the glowing letters on dark background get much blurrier for some reason.
Most people who like dark mode use it so they can be in a dimly lit room and not have the display blast their eyes with light but I’ve found that under low ambient light my vision is far blurrier - a well lit room complemented by light mode (ie natural, default) display is the easiest to read.
Most people who like dark mode use it so they can be in a dimly lit room and not have the display blast their eyes with light but I’ve found that under low ambient light my vision is far blurrier - a well lit room complemented by light mode (ie natural, default) display is the easiest to read.
Hear, hear.
Back when I attempted to be an edgy college guy, I carried my Gentoo with green foreground on a black background. EVERYWHERE. My pcmanfm (yes, I was one of those) looked glorious in true matrix style (and I did have a matrix screensaver). I did it because it was "cool", not because I felt that dark mode was better.
Then when I changed to MacOS, since there wasn't native dark mode, I don't think I ever _thought_ of even changing it. Things just looked great and I had no complaints.
And, as I've aged, dark mode started to actually hurt my eyes.
There's a special kind of dark mode which I can never put my finger on and literally makes my head hurt. I can feel my light adjusting itself to the change and the blurriness settling in. Every letter seems to transfer some of its weight onto neighboring letters, even those in a previous paragraph with quite a large vertical gap! I don't see the letters overlap but it's like my mind is telling me that they ARE overlapping. It's bizarre but it's the best description I can give: my brain is convinced they overlap, even though my eyes disagree.
I can never focus on those websites and have to quit immediately. Usually pitch black is bad, but I've seen some websites make it work. I once read it has to do with astigmatism and ever since then I've paroted that, but I have friends with astigmatism who scoff at my white/light mode.
Examples (most of them from random googling):
- This is terrible. The green makes my head hurt and it's very hard to focus on it. https://anilkody.framer.website/?ref=darkmodedesign
- This is ok. https://www.danielsantos.co/
- Our company's website is fine https://www.cron.studio/
- Also ok https://superset.sh/
- Unbearable: https://www.omnius.so/web-development
I'm a guy who loves to have the maximum brightness, and incredibly bright lights. I'm not kidding: if I work against a black wall I'll go crazy. Back at my parent's place I pointed 4 different strong ceiling lights at the place where I used to have the computer to make sure it was LIT.
It sort of sucks because there's an increasing amount of dark-mode only websites and I've had to occasionally apply custom styles to them just to browse...
Back when I attempted to be an edgy college guy, I carried my Gentoo with green foreground on a black background. EVERYWHERE. My pcmanfm (yes, I was one of those) looked glorious in true matrix style (and I did have a matrix screensaver). I did it because it was "cool", not because I felt that dark mode was better.
Then when I changed to MacOS, since there wasn't native dark mode, I don't think I ever _thought_ of even changing it. Things just looked great and I had no complaints.
And, as I've aged, dark mode started to actually hurt my eyes.
There's a special kind of dark mode which I can never put my finger on and literally makes my head hurt. I can feel my light adjusting itself to the change and the blurriness settling in. Every letter seems to transfer some of its weight onto neighboring letters, even those in a previous paragraph with quite a large vertical gap! I don't see the letters overlap but it's like my mind is telling me that they ARE overlapping. It's bizarre but it's the best description I can give: my brain is convinced they overlap, even though my eyes disagree.
I can never focus on those websites and have to quit immediately. Usually pitch black is bad, but I've seen some websites make it work. I once read it has to do with astigmatism and ever since then I've paroted that, but I have friends with astigmatism who scoff at my white/light mode.
Examples (most of them from random googling):
- This is terrible. The green makes my head hurt and it's very hard to focus on it. https://anilkody.framer.website/?ref=darkmodedesign
- This is ok. https://www.danielsantos.co/
- Our company's website is fine https://www.cron.studio/
- Also ok https://superset.sh/
- Unbearable: https://www.omnius.so/web-development
I'm a guy who loves to have the maximum brightness, and incredibly bright lights. I'm not kidding: if I work against a black wall I'll go crazy. Back at my parent's place I pointed 4 different strong ceiling lights at the place where I used to have the computer to make sure it was LIT.
It sort of sucks because there's an increasing amount of dark-mode only websites and I've had to occasionally apply custom styles to them just to browse...
> Every letter seems to transfer some of its weight onto neighboring letters, even those in a previous paragraph with quite a large vertical gap!
This is probably astigmatic halation. For me it looks something like this: https://www.threads.com/@mrmedina/post/CuciL0Uvam9
If a product/service/site is dark-mode only, I can't/won't use it.
This is probably astigmatic halation. For me it looks something like this: https://www.threads.com/@mrmedina/post/CuciL0Uvam9
If a product/service/site is dark-mode only, I can't/won't use it.
Only some dark mode does this to me, and only on some screens. I find "light mode" bearable, but anything else cute like custom fonts or whatever and I am seeing 33 as 88 and 100 as loo.
I have schwas in my vision, like swishy halos around light sources. At one point I counted 12 distinct mirrored images. Driving was awful.
Reading my 4k screen was impossible, gave it to my wife and switched to a 2k HDR at 175%.
I still have swishes but only 1.5-2 and much dimmer. It used to be impossible to read the clock on my stove at night because it would just be a green smear!
I have schwas in my vision, like swishy halos around light sources. At one point I counted 12 distinct mirrored images. Driving was awful.
Reading my 4k screen was impossible, gave it to my wife and switched to a 2k HDR at 175%.
I still have swishes but only 1.5-2 and much dimmer. It used to be impossible to read the clock on my stove at night because it would just be a green smear!
Ooh do me! My site is purposely annoyingly retro!
https://generativestorytelling.ai/
https://generativestorytelling.ai/
Your website is ok. The blue-on-black text in the footer is very blurry but that's also part of the CRT-filter design.
Since most of the actual text is not "white on dark", but "dark on blue", it's very readable.
The blue version is fine. The best of all 3 by a large margin
The amber version signals me that I should stop looking at it eventually, though I hang on for a while
The green version hurts my eyes. I want to leave as soon as possible
I think the green is brighter to me than the amber and, on top of that, the black text on green background somehow also gets hard to read.
So you definitely made the right choice going with that default!
Since most of the actual text is not "white on dark", but "dark on blue", it's very readable.
The blue version is fine. The best of all 3 by a large margin
The amber version signals me that I should stop looking at it eventually, though I hang on for a while
The green version hurts my eyes. I want to leave as soon as possible
I think the green is brighter to me than the amber and, on top of that, the black text on green background somehow also gets hard to read.
So you definitely made the right choice going with that default!
It's funny how over saturated that green is on my phone's OLED screen vs my desktop's LCD. The green is retro on my desktop my very not retro on my phone. It is supposed to be a subdued retro green not the overly saturated color that mobile makes it out to be!
The blue comes across truest to my vision on both LCD and OLED displays.
Thanks for giving it a look! :)
The blue comes across truest to my vision on both LCD and OLED displays.
Thanks for giving it a look! :)
I don’t know how anyone with a glossy display can work on a dark theme.
I see my whole room unless it is pitch black inside.
I see my whole room unless it is pitch black inside.
I don't know how anybody can stand glossy screens, period. The mirror effect is wildly distracting. All my daily driver machines have matte screens. If I could get a matte screen on my phone I would.
You can easily “stand” glossy screen with white background: you only see reflection on dark background: like check your phone screen.
Also not that there were many alternatives to my 32″ 6k display at the time of purchase.
Also not that there were many alternatives to my 32″ 6k display at the time of purchase.
Lower ambient light, including dark mode, leads to pupil dilation, which is a loss of about 0.5 diopters.
Higher ambient light with low-blue content (from lights and screens), where the room and screen are matched has several benefits.
Natural light is always best and only light mode screens can match natural light.
Higher ambient light with low-blue content (from lights and screens), where the room and screen are matched has several benefits.
Natural light is always best and only light mode screens can match natural light.
Light mode has its place! I think I am far happier reading light mode text, but when I code I want dark mode. Dark for _everything_ is sometimes overwhelming, it always seems like there are too many things to look at.
> Instead of a single row of data on a spreadsheet, I saw two, one below the other
I have keratoconus, where the cornea loses its shape and creates multiple focal points. I have several focal points in each eye.
It got so bad I couldn't read. So many copies of every letter that text looked like nests of spiders. Not an exaggeration, you could give me a page and a week and I wouldn't be able to decode it.
I also got headaches. Imagine trying to focus when all that does is vary which points in one eye match the other eye. It took a long time for my brain to stop trying.
If I look at a little "power dot" on some device across a pitch-black room, I can clearly see all the focal points, at random distances from a presumed center and each other. And a web of smeared focal lines connecting them.
It sounds cool, but you really don't want a focal web!
Fortunately, surgery involving soaking my cornea with a strengthening substance, and applying lasers to set it, improved my left eye considerably. And then, for unknown reasons, both eyes have improved spontaneously since then.
I feel very lucky to be able to read effortlessly, or at all, again.
For some reason, I sometimes have bad days and see mildly offset multiples. But mostly, the focal points are so closely clustered I don't notice them. Unless I try and read tiny tiny pill-cannister writing.
Now about my damn myopic lenses, ...
For most of my life I had noticeably better than 20/20 vision.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratoconus (I am happy to say, my eyes never looked anything like that picture. They didn't have any visible misshaping. I think my corneas had subtle soft rippling.)
I have keratoconus, where the cornea loses its shape and creates multiple focal points. I have several focal points in each eye.
It got so bad I couldn't read. So many copies of every letter that text looked like nests of spiders. Not an exaggeration, you could give me a page and a week and I wouldn't be able to decode it.
I also got headaches. Imagine trying to focus when all that does is vary which points in one eye match the other eye. It took a long time for my brain to stop trying.
If I look at a little "power dot" on some device across a pitch-black room, I can clearly see all the focal points, at random distances from a presumed center and each other. And a web of smeared focal lines connecting them.
It sounds cool, but you really don't want a focal web!
Fortunately, surgery involving soaking my cornea with a strengthening substance, and applying lasers to set it, improved my left eye considerably. And then, for unknown reasons, both eyes have improved spontaneously since then.
I feel very lucky to be able to read effortlessly, or at all, again.
For some reason, I sometimes have bad days and see mildly offset multiples. But mostly, the focal points are so closely clustered I don't notice them. Unless I try and read tiny tiny pill-cannister writing.
Now about my damn myopic lenses, ...
For most of my life I had noticeably better than 20/20 vision.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratoconus (I am happy to say, my eyes never looked anything like that picture. They didn't have any visible misshaping. I think my corneas had subtle soft rippling.)
Fellow keratoconus sufferer here. Glad to hear about your successful treatment and spontaneous improvement. I definitely notice day-to-day differences in my acuity but nothing miraculous like that. Hope it remains good for you.
I "missed" corneal collagen crosslinking w/ riboflavin (the treatment I assume you're eluding in your paragraph re: soaking your cornea and applying lasers). When I was initially diagnosed the treatment was in trials outside the US. By the time it was approved in the US my corneal specialist said I'd "stabilized" and was likely to see no benefit for the procedure, only risk. My prescription has been reasonably stable for the last 10 years (at least as far as my astigmatism and keratoconus goes). Now I'm just descending into presbyopia hell.
Out of curiosity, do you have a history of allergies with ocular symptoms (itching, swelling)?
I "missed" corneal collagen crosslinking w/ riboflavin (the treatment I assume you're eluding in your paragraph re: soaking your cornea and applying lasers). When I was initially diagnosed the treatment was in trials outside the US. By the time it was approved in the US my corneal specialist said I'd "stabilized" and was likely to see no benefit for the procedure, only risk. My prescription has been reasonably stable for the last 10 years (at least as far as my astigmatism and keratoconus goes). Now I'm just descending into presbyopia hell.
Out of curiosity, do you have a history of allergies with ocular symptoms (itching, swelling)?
Sorry to hear you have it.
> Now I'm just descending into presbyopia hell.
That is what I meant (as apposed to myopia). So, me too. I have finally got accustomed to constantly cycling half-circle readers on and off. I have thought about lens implants, but anything that could distrube my corneas seems like a terrible idea.
So I am waiting for complete lens/cornea replacements!
No, I didn't have any eye related allergies.
One of my cousins also got keratoconus, so I assume genetics are involved with mine.
> Now I'm just descending into presbyopia hell.
That is what I meant (as apposed to myopia). So, me too. I have finally got accustomed to constantly cycling half-circle readers on and off. I have thought about lens implants, but anything that could distrube my corneas seems like a terrible idea.
So I am waiting for complete lens/cornea replacements!
No, I didn't have any eye related allergies.
One of my cousins also got keratoconus, so I assume genetics are involved with mine.
Thanks for the reply!
I have keratoconus. It's where there is one or more thin spots in my cornea making my eye pointy in those spots as the internal pressure of the eye pushes out. When I lived in s.f. my ophthalmologist asked me to go to Berkeley to test the students - only one of dozens diagnosed me correctly over a few years.
I had to wear contact lenses since junior high because my eyes were so warped that glasses couldn't correct my vision. This was fine but when I hit fifty I started wondering what I'm going to do when I'm really old - I couldn't see myself caring for my scleral lenses at 80 or whatever.
My eyes started to develop cataracts at 50. I was lucky and found a great eye surgeon who implanted custom toric lenses. I can now see well enough that I can legally drive a car without lenses. I can read books at night on my phone without lenses. I start my day in the morning on the computer programming without lenses but in the afternoon I usually put on reading glasses and continue...
Anyway, I'm so much better off after my cataract surgery than I was before. However I have relatives that are worse off after. I think part of it is my warped eye - I can focus different distances because of it. But also I had a great ophthalmologist which sounds like the major difference.
I had to wear contact lenses since junior high because my eyes were so warped that glasses couldn't correct my vision. This was fine but when I hit fifty I started wondering what I'm going to do when I'm really old - I couldn't see myself caring for my scleral lenses at 80 or whatever.
My eyes started to develop cataracts at 50. I was lucky and found a great eye surgeon who implanted custom toric lenses. I can now see well enough that I can legally drive a car without lenses. I can read books at night on my phone without lenses. I start my day in the morning on the computer programming without lenses but in the afternoon I usually put on reading glasses and continue...
Anyway, I'm so much better off after my cataract surgery than I was before. However I have relatives that are worse off after. I think part of it is my warped eye - I can focus different distances because of it. But also I had a great ophthalmologist which sounds like the major difference.
I'm 50 and my -7 myopia is now joined by early presbyopia.
Buying glasses is a hassle, strong dislike! Bifocals/progressives are expensive. Stores here (nordics) upsell annoyingly, on both frames and lenses. Never regular prices, always sales or 2-for-1 style campaigns. Hard to tell apart quality steps from mere money grab upsells. For progressives different stores offer 3-5 lens qualities, each using vague naming like "better" and "supreme", so cross store price/quality comparison is opaque. Then there's lens thickness options (1.6, 1.67, 1.74 where higher is thinner and costlier). One store said 1.74 is the only feasible option with my -7. Another said 1.6 is ok if I don't mind a thick lens look. Lots of treatment options (basic anti scratch vs more "advanced"). Expensive to just iterate (buy, try, buy differently), especially since the presbyopia will worsen over a period of years, which means buying new again in a year or two.
Buying glasses is a hassle, strong dislike! Bifocals/progressives are expensive. Stores here (nordics) upsell annoyingly, on both frames and lenses. Never regular prices, always sales or 2-for-1 style campaigns. Hard to tell apart quality steps from mere money grab upsells. For progressives different stores offer 3-5 lens qualities, each using vague naming like "better" and "supreme", so cross store price/quality comparison is opaque. Then there's lens thickness options (1.6, 1.67, 1.74 where higher is thinner and costlier). One store said 1.74 is the only feasible option with my -7. Another said 1.6 is ok if I don't mind a thick lens look. Lots of treatment options (basic anti scratch vs more "advanced"). Expensive to just iterate (buy, try, buy differently), especially since the presbyopia will worsen over a period of years, which means buying new again in a year or two.
See Chemistrie, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48427032
At about 50 I began getting corneal abrasions. My eyes dry out while sleeping and when I open them in the morning, my eyelid would take a certain amount of my cornea with it. Usually just one eye but sometimes both.
I trained myself to not open my eyes when I wake up. I work them carefully until I feel safe. Sometimes it still happened a few blinks later.
Besides being excruciating, the abrasion mostly blinds me for a few hours. One eye is shot and the other is gushing water. It's a tough way to start the day and I can't recommend it.
For a few weeks afterward, I'll see a 25% halo just above a light source. Together they resemble a parasailer at a distance.
I trained myself to not open my eyes when I wake up. I work them carefully until I feel safe. Sometimes it still happened a few blinks later.
Besides being excruciating, the abrasion mostly blinds me for a few hours. One eye is shot and the other is gushing water. It's a tough way to start the day and I can't recommend it.
For a few weeks afterward, I'll see a 25% halo just above a light source. Together they resemble a parasailer at a distance.
Having had this on my right eye a few months ago, I can confirm, the pain is excruciating, and my body was in panic mode. I rushed to the ophtalmologist, who confirmed I had a large abrasion. She says some people sleep with their eyes half open, and because you don't blink while sleeping, that exposed part of your eye completely dries out, and when you blink in the morning, you can rip away a chunk of the cornea.
After that, I've been doing Systane ointment or gel, right before going to bed, and eye drops in the morning, as soon as I wake up. Every single day. The doctor said it doesn't happen overnight, it's usually a drying out over multiple days, but I'm not taking any chances.
Do yourself a favor and have a doctor check it out.
After that, I've been doing Systane ointment or gel, right before going to bed, and eye drops in the morning, as soon as I wake up. Every single day. The doctor said it doesn't happen overnight, it's usually a drying out over multiple days, but I'm not taking any chances.
Do yourself a favor and have a doctor check it out.
This is likely because your eyes are not closing all the way when you sleep. Close your eyes casually and have someone look. They probably will see the whites of your eyes. Try training yourself to close your eyes completely when you sleep. Tape them shut if necessary. See if that helps.
It happens to me when I am taking creatine. As you did, I trained myself to keep my eyes shut until it is safe to reopen them. I do this automatically now.
The over the counter supplement, Astaxanthin is, when taken once daily, pretty much an opthalmic fountain of youth. YMMV, but I've recommended it to many others who all report its great for age related focusing fatigue.
Thanks for the pointer.
I think there may be even more issues with brain health and vision.
https://www.nccdp.org/the-connection-between-dementia-and-vi...
The eyes connect to the back of the brain and just above the evolutionary older cortext. When those signals start failing, there's some deeper change going on.
https://www.nccdp.org/the-connection-between-dementia-and-vi...
The eyes connect to the back of the brain and just above the evolutionary older cortext. When those signals start failing, there's some deeper change going on.
I’ve started going down a similar path for scent and ADHD. I have a horrible sense of smell and just learned that it might correlate with symptoms of ADHD.
Interesting. Research results seem mixed, and I wonder if ASD comormidity is affecting them. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7369237/ has a reasonably large sample size and finds an effect for ASD but not ADHD.
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4k screen is minimum for dev work and text clarity should be priority above any other feature. this will help a lot over the years
As owner of 4K monitors, I can confirm. When in go to the office, where only HD monitors are there, I am basically degrading my work productivity, since I can barely read, since big windows are overall too.
If you have a sudden increase in floaters or start seeing flashes of light, this is a medical emergency.
If you’re unlucky, it’s a retinal detachment and you need medical attention to keep your vision.
If you’re very lucky, it was only flashes and you’ve had a specific type of migraine.
If you’re lucky, it’s posterior vitreous detachment which usually heals on its own.
If you’re unlucky, it’s a retinal detachment and you need medical attention to keep your vision.
If you’re very lucky, it was only flashes and you’ve had a specific type of migraine.
If you’re lucky, it’s posterior vitreous detachment which usually heals on its own.
I got bifocal monthly contact lenses (-7, +2 and correction for astigmatism). It has been such a relief to read screen/phone without needing to wear reading glasses while still seeing far away). The daily soft lenses didn't correct as well as the firmer monthly ones.
Yeah I've got all the fun eye issues of aging and also a decent case of HPPD which adds a lot of snow to my vision. It seemed to get worse after a spate of ocular migraines a few years ago. It almost feels like my optic nerves were a little fried from the migraines.
My eye sight got MUCH worse after a covid infection. I was 20/20 or better before covid, now everything is blurry outside of a very narrow distance range, and white anything can hurt. Granted I'm over 50, so I was expecting my eyes to go bad at some point.
May be a timing coincidence - I'm in my mid 40s and my eyes are changing rapidly and getting much less flexible in terms of range. I'm switching between three different pairs of glasses for different distances, and need new prescriptions every year.
fever triggering impending physiological changes maybe
I’ve had surprisingly positive results with these red light glasses: https://www.eye-power.co.uk/product/eyepower-red/
I don’t know who on Hackernews first mentioned these red light glasses but bought them for my mom in the hopes it could alleviate some vision problems she was having. After reading the precautions and fine print she was scared to try them, so I figured, why not see if there’s a difference for me. I don’t know how to describe it other than my eyes feel well rested when I use these consistently. I can see better in the dark and depth perception is just slightly better. I’ll use these puppies forever.
I don’t know who on Hackernews first mentioned these red light glasses but bought them for my mom in the hopes it could alleviate some vision problems she was having. After reading the precautions and fine print she was scared to try them, so I figured, why not see if there’s a difference for me. I don’t know how to describe it other than my eyes feel well rested when I use these consistently. I can see better in the dark and depth perception is just slightly better. I’ll use these puppies forever.
Really? I bought them when they were released, but never wore them because I thought they were gimmicky once I got them.
What struck me here is how much "good UI" changes with age
as most "U's" do :)
The lens of the eye usually degrades as you get older.
For most people it becomes inflexible first, and you might have trouble squeezing the lens and it limits your range of focus. This is when most people need reading glasses.
I had problems with cataracts, when the lens further gets cloudy.
Most people eventually get cataracts due to age, but some conditions can speed up the process and you get them earlier.
When I had the problem, I had trouble with glare while driving, and seeing a bright computer screen was a chore.
I switched to dark mode for reading and computer use and it really helped. It was such a relief.
For driving, the glare was like shining headlights on a dirty windshield. Some situations like bright tuner headlights on a rainy night were confusing and required extra care. It helped to use polarized driving glasses, but only a bit.
When this stuff gets to be too much, people get cataract surgery to replace the lens. This operation is pretty well sorted, it takes a few minutes to replace the lens, and most people really enjoy the results.
for me, I chose single-vision lenses. I got very very good 20/20 vision at a distance and used reading glasses for near vision. There are lots of types of reading glasses available and I have lenses for my computer. I can use very small fonts, and dark mode is completely optional.
Funny, but driving at night is a big change. I can see clearly and headlights have switched the type of glare. I can now focus on bright headlights and now the problem is all that light focuses perfectly on probably one cell on my retina and is almost painfully bright.
(there are two kinds of glare - disability glare the kind I used to have, and now discomfort glare with a reaction to the absolute brightness)
oh, and now that I focus at infinity, getting reading glasses is easy. the formula for it is:
1 / distance-in-meters = +x.xx diopters.
So to read your phone at .5 meters, use 1/.5 = +2.00 diopter reading glasses.
My computer screen works out to +1.25 diopter.
Really close project stuff is +3.0 or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glare_(vision)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioptre
For most people it becomes inflexible first, and you might have trouble squeezing the lens and it limits your range of focus. This is when most people need reading glasses.
I had problems with cataracts, when the lens further gets cloudy.
Most people eventually get cataracts due to age, but some conditions can speed up the process and you get them earlier.
When I had the problem, I had trouble with glare while driving, and seeing a bright computer screen was a chore.
I switched to dark mode for reading and computer use and it really helped. It was such a relief.
For driving, the glare was like shining headlights on a dirty windshield. Some situations like bright tuner headlights on a rainy night were confusing and required extra care. It helped to use polarized driving glasses, but only a bit.
When this stuff gets to be too much, people get cataract surgery to replace the lens. This operation is pretty well sorted, it takes a few minutes to replace the lens, and most people really enjoy the results.
for me, I chose single-vision lenses. I got very very good 20/20 vision at a distance and used reading glasses for near vision. There are lots of types of reading glasses available and I have lenses for my computer. I can use very small fonts, and dark mode is completely optional.
Funny, but driving at night is a big change. I can see clearly and headlights have switched the type of glare. I can now focus on bright headlights and now the problem is all that light focuses perfectly on probably one cell on my retina and is almost painfully bright.
(there are two kinds of glare - disability glare the kind I used to have, and now discomfort glare with a reaction to the absolute brightness)
oh, and now that I focus at infinity, getting reading glasses is easy. the formula for it is:
1 / distance-in-meters = +x.xx diopters.
So to read your phone at .5 meters, use 1/.5 = +2.00 diopter reading glasses.
My computer screen works out to +1.25 diopter.
Really close project stuff is +3.0 or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glare_(vision)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioptre
PSA: if you have floaters, try VitroCap for at least 6 months. It doesn’t help everyone, but makes life much easier for some like my mother
If I remember correctly, it contains some stuff from ordinary grape seeds that helps to orient back the fibers in a vitreous body.
Hence the at least 6 months to understand whether it works or not — new tissue takes time.
If I remember correctly, it contains some stuff from ordinary grape seeds that helps to orient back the fibers in a vitreous body.
Hence the at least 6 months to understand whether it works or not — new tissue takes time.
There are no fibers in a vitreous body. Nor does it contain tissue.
Just for fun: if you ever had eye surgery, there's a 50/50 chance the machine used is the one I designed.
Just for fun: if you ever had eye surgery, there's a 50/50 chance the machine used is the one I designed.
Literally wiki: vitreous collagen is organized as thin *fibrils* 10–25 nm in diameter with cross-striations.
Or did you come here to say that ackkhhualy fibrils are not fibers and gel-like structure is not a tissue? :-) English is not my native language so excuse me for not knowing 50 words for snow.
Regardless of the terms, are you saying vitrocap cannot help orient those fibrils, reduce clumps / improve transparency of collagen and what have you to alleviate floaters?
Or did you come here to say that ackkhhualy fibrils are not fibers and gel-like structure is not a tissue? :-) English is not my native language so excuse me for not knowing 50 words for snow.
Regardless of the terms, are you saying vitrocap cannot help orient those fibrils, reduce clumps / improve transparency of collagen and what have you to alleviate floaters?
there's also the factor of display technology. when i got a new laptop with LED-driven display, i couldn't even look at it longer than 5 mins without getting watery eyes. switched back to the vista-era laptop only because of its 1280x800 TFT display - zero issues with that.
Retinal detachment is one thing that can cause vision loss as we age. My optometrist says that people like me with a strong nearsighted prescription are especially susceptible to it.
Another is high pressure inside the eye, which can lead to glaucoma. Get your eye exams regularly, folks.
Another is high pressure inside the eye, which can lead to glaucoma. Get your eye exams regularly, folks.
I got my first bifocals last year. I got the "no line" variety and, so far, I hate them. The focal distances I need for reading, viewing my phone, and other close work are at the absolute bottom of the lens. Likewise, I find the top of bifocal area of the lens interfering with straight-ahead vision sometimes, too.
I'd like to try a set of bifocals with traditional discrete lenses to see if that improves my experience. I'd be curious to hear others' experiences.
re: light - I can definitely tell I have better acuity in bright settings when my irises are "stopped down" to a small pupil. I'm glad of my experience shooting manual focus / aperture cameras because it gives me a good intuition for what the optical instruments in my head are doing.
Edit: Oh, and the damned floater in my right eye. I've had it for 15+ years, and they're not increasing (so it's unlikely a symptom of retinal detachment). Reading on paper or a screen and, oddly, driving, always seems to bring it to the center of my vision. I flick my eye around randomly for a few seconds and it goes away for awhile. I haven't even broached the subject with my ophthalmologist because it's not too bad-- just annoying.