Handwritten thank you notes increase sales(tips.ariyh.com)
tips.ariyh.com
Handwritten thank you notes increase sales
https://tips.ariyh.com/p/handwritten-notes
207 comments
“How do we scale that feeling that someone got a personal handwritten note” is really dystopian.
Very reminiscent of the movie Her, where the main character worked at a letter writing service you could pay someone to write thoughtful letters to family and friends.
In Japan you can rent a family.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rental_family_service
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rental_family_service
In Nevada you can rent a girlfriend experience.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/sex-wo...
surely not just in nevada?
I think that has been a thing in Japan for a long time!
Last year I built an entire service [1] around the idea that scaling handwritten cards was a good business…
Before ultimately concluding that you’re right, it’s pretty dystopian.
So I called it quits.
[1] fountaincards.com
Before ultimately concluding that you’re right, it’s pretty dystopian.
So I called it quits.
[1] fountaincards.com
Was it working / were you making money?
Automated handwritten notes companies seem like they render text using a handwritten font and then potentially pass it off (via API) to a “print anything and ship it” company — is that an accurate statement?
Is there a clear advantage to building and maintaining the hardware / plotting pen portion? i.e. isn’t that something you could do by randomizing font parameters?
Also, it does seem like a pretty crowded space - was that ever a problem? Googling “handwritten notes automation” brings up a lot of companies/ads.
Thanks. Really curious about this!
Automated handwritten notes companies seem like they render text using a handwritten font and then potentially pass it off (via API) to a “print anything and ship it” company — is that an accurate statement?
Is there a clear advantage to building and maintaining the hardware / plotting pen portion? i.e. isn’t that something you could do by randomizing font parameters?
Also, it does seem like a pretty crowded space - was that ever a problem? Googling “handwritten notes automation” brings up a lot of companies/ads.
Thanks. Really curious about this!
I feel like I've been able to detect these, e.g. examine the writing and note that each letter is exactly the same every time it appears -- real people don't write that precisely. Though I'm sure that some random variation would not be difficult to introduce.
Bottom line it's like anything else -- if I don't know the person who sent it to me, I don't trust it. Automated handwriting is just more big-tech destruction of yet another facet of human to human communications.
Bottom line it's like anything else -- if I don't know the person who sent it to me, I don't trust it. Automated handwriting is just more big-tech destruction of yet another facet of human to human communications.
I was about three years behind wallawe’s reply.
The technical parts are fun…the core thing for us was that it was actually written by a real pen. The difference between a print and real writing is obvious to most people, so we wanted it to be believable.
Our system used a set of handwritten fonts, along with a bunch of “fuzzing” of line height, line direction, and character swap outs. This created an SVG path that a robot used to trace with a pen.
The hardware and margins were what killed us. As wallawe noted, there’s still a lot of manual labor that goes into a system like this, even if the writing is automated. Envelope stuffing and card-envelope matching are big problems.
Its not a super competitive market yet, but the margins on what could be charged per card were pretty low, especially factoring in paper costs and labor costs.
The technical parts are fun…the core thing for us was that it was actually written by a real pen. The difference between a print and real writing is obvious to most people, so we wanted it to be believable.
Our system used a set of handwritten fonts, along with a bunch of “fuzzing” of line height, line direction, and character swap outs. This created an SVG path that a robot used to trace with a pen.
The hardware and margins were what killed us. As wallawe noted, there’s still a lot of manual labor that goes into a system like this, even if the writing is automated. Envelope stuffing and card-envelope matching are big problems.
Its not a super competitive market yet, but the margins on what could be charged per card were pretty low, especially factoring in paper costs and labor costs.
> Our system used a set of handwritten fonts
What betrays handwritten fonts is nobody writes "a" the same way every time. I get that you're addressing this with fuzzing, but that's not enough. The pressure put on a pen also varies, people make mistakes and cross them out, there are ink blotches, etc.
What betrays handwritten fonts is nobody writes "a" the same way every time. I get that you're addressing this with fuzzing, but that's not enough. The pressure put on a pen also varies, people make mistakes and cross them out, there are ink blotches, etc.
There were enough character alternates and special compound ligatures that it’s really hard to tell unless you know it’s machine-produced.
I think you would be surprised at how realistic it can be.
I think you would be surprised at how realistic it can be.
Perhaps. Just yesterday I received a handwritten note from a business. The varying pressure on the pen was clear if you ran a finger over it, as some areas were more deeply indented than others. The line thickness varied, sometimes trailing off into nothing. No two letters were the same, some were illegible in isolation. The lines would even overlap. Every ligature was different.
I've never seen a machine handwrite that way.
I'm sure they'll get better, but there's a long way to go.
I've never seen a machine handwrite that way.
I'm sure they'll get better, but there's a long way to go.
I replied to parent, but we built the company that shows up #3 for that query (at least on my browser) - handwrite.io. I felt that there would be a massive audience for the API so worked on building that out in the early stages while my cofounder built the hardware. It's a super costly process, requires a lot of human touchpoints even when you've automated a lot of the machinery (e.g. sealing and stamping cards). There was a decent amount of competition but even more demand. We had a couple of good sales guys working strictly on commission that got us to 40k MRR ish in a relatively short timespan but the margins were horrible. In the end we burnt out and sold to a client.
Thanks a lot for sharing, really interesting.
I edited my comment so you may not have seen my additional question: why build out hardware vs. outsource the printing / mailing?
i.e. with enough randomness in the font/text/letter generation, was it still obvious to tell what was “handwritten” by a plotter vs printed?
And re: margins, you could have raised prices but that would have made you not competitive?
I edited my comment so you may not have seen my additional question: why build out hardware vs. outsource the printing / mailing?
i.e. with enough randomness in the font/text/letter generation, was it still obvious to tell what was “handwritten” by a plotter vs printed?
And re: margins, you could have raised prices but that would have made you not competitive?
> why build out hardware vs. outsource the printing / mailing?
we wanted the handwriting to feel as real as possible. to that end, my cofounder wrote an algo that varied each character slightly, the robots held real pens, etc. We couldn't find anyone to outsource the fulfillment to that matched this level of authenticity. Some competitors used lob.com and simply print an image of handwriting which actually can work pretty well, but is definitely recognizable if you look closely.
> re: margins, you could have raised prices but that would have made you not competitive?
This was a big point of contention between me and my cofounder. We raise them towards the end some but not enough. After selling, the company that bought us raised them substantially and are doing very well from what I understand. We should have done this early on, but focused too much on winning the deal which is what burnt us out in the end (too much business too quick, lots of sleepless nights).
we wanted the handwriting to feel as real as possible. to that end, my cofounder wrote an algo that varied each character slightly, the robots held real pens, etc. We couldn't find anyone to outsource the fulfillment to that matched this level of authenticity. Some competitors used lob.com and simply print an image of handwriting which actually can work pretty well, but is definitely recognizable if you look closely.
> re: margins, you could have raised prices but that would have made you not competitive?
This was a big point of contention between me and my cofounder. We raise them towards the end some but not enough. After selling, the company that bought us raised them substantially and are doing very well from what I understand. We should have done this early on, but focused too much on winning the deal which is what burnt us out in the end (too much business too quick, lots of sleepless nights).
How can you spot the difference between a robot written letter and a printed one?
And what about volumes, is each letter has different text? Should have slightly different writing?
Or are there some volumes in the system?
And what about volumes, is each letter has different text? Should have slightly different writing?
Or are there some volumes in the system?
There are variations in pressure that are really easy to recognize.
Not sure I understand the second question.
Edit: Do you sometimes print the same letter(or a templatized letter) 100/1000 times ?
This would have been a good optimization but we did not. Every letter generated was unique even if it was a templatized piece.
Not sure I understand the second question.
Edit: Do you sometimes print the same letter(or a templatized letter) 100/1000 times ?
This would have been a good optimization but we did not. Every letter generated was unique even if it was a templatized piece.
Do you sometimes print the same letter(or a templatized letter) 100/1000 times ?
It is possible for a plotter using a real pen to make a card which is indistinguishable from a truly handwritten card.
People are rightfully squeamish about sending out cards which “look” handwritten but aren’t. Imagine a customer realizes that you are faking it…the consequences to reputation could be substantial.
That said, I personally find printed cards using handwritten-style font to be insulting, so that was a no-go for us.
We considered using a third party fulfillment service and essentially charging a fee on top of that, but the returns would be microscopic for the effort.
People are rightfully squeamish about sending out cards which “look” handwritten but aren’t. Imagine a customer realizes that you are faking it…the consequences to reputation could be substantial.
That said, I personally find printed cards using handwritten-style font to be insulting, so that was a no-go for us.
We considered using a third party fulfillment service and essentially charging a fee on top of that, but the returns would be microscopic for the effort.
it depends on who you ask and how hard they look, but in my experience yes. i did numerous non-scientific experiments of just showing people a card and asking them if they thought it was handwritten or done by a robot. sometimes i would show them an actual handwritten card, sometimes the robotic one and for ours at least, they had a tough time telling them apart.
edit: i can't speak to the technology the company uses now, i believe they switched away from our tech to something more scalable so it's probably not as good now.
edit: i can't speak to the technology the company uses now, i believe they switched away from our tech to something more scalable so it's probably not as good now.
We built and sold a similar business (handwrite.io) and it was a pretty rough experience. We scaled to 40k MRR within several months (bootstrapped) but the margins were terrible and hardware is not fun, especially not being a hardware guy so I had to rely on someone else to make sure we had an efficient/quality product.
I looked at handwrite.io when I was getting started…impressive!
Sounds like y’all made it further than we did, so congratulations. :)
Totally agree on margins. I vowed to skip physical products on my next effort (moneyhabitshq.com).
Sounds like y’all made it further than we did, so congratulations. :)
Totally agree on margins. I vowed to skip physical products on my next effort (moneyhabitshq.com).
The article itself isn't much better. Great way to turn a nice thing from "Aw, that's sweet" to "Ugh, another piece of emotionally manipulative advertising".
Yeah, if I find out that a company attempts to deceive me with this kind of thing, I'd completely stop buying from them.
Not at all new by the way. First parent is 220 years old.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopen
Faked signature by machine had been popular for 80 years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopen
Faked signature by machine had been popular for 80 years.
I would have preferred a video FaceTime call from the business owner or one of the partners anyway.
Let's see, we already have deep faked audio that can be trained to sound like anyone, deep faked video, and chat bots that can be trained to talk/write like anyone, so scaling this to millions of customers is not far off
It already exists. I won’t link to anyone, but I just found a site claiming to be a “personalization platform for automated 1:1 video messaging”
They specifically show that their videos will use text to speech to personalize the “Hi $firstname” greeting at the top of the video.
Dystopian, like many people here are saying.
They specifically show that their videos will use text to speech to personalize the “Hi $firstname” greeting at the top of the video.
Dystopian, like many people here are saying.
Once that happens, I will prefer a home visit and maybe a non soup meal.
Alternatively, "a scalable way to bring a little bit of joy to many people" is actually nice & good.
In the short term. In the long term, “a way to reduce trust in society”. It is why I assume everything on social media is staged.
You should assume zero trust in anything you see at this point, in case that was not already obvious.
It's not "bringing joy", it's emotional manipulation. Intent matters. This isn't any better than MLM people pretending to be your friend in order to sell you tupperware.
In a single naive interaction, sure, it may bring joy. But repeated at scale throughout society, it creates distrust by being insincere and devalues sincere expressions of kindness, harming everyone.
In a single naive interaction, sure, it may bring joy. But repeated at scale throughout society, it creates distrust by being insincere and devalues sincere expressions of kindness, harming everyone.
That’s the harm - you’re taking things the body and brain are used to and simulating them to elicit the response you want.
I’m sure a company could develop an AI advanced enough to imitate a cute employee who is really into you when you have an issue - and use that to encourage you to spend way more because “they love you”.
Hell, I bet you could offer “CEO on HackerNews” as a marketing service - keep an eye on posts involving your company and impersonate the CEO as necessary- and of course be able to actually call him in if needed. Probably already being done …
I’m sure a company could develop an AI advanced enough to imitate a cute employee who is really into you when you have an issue - and use that to encourage you to spend way more because “they love you”.
Hell, I bet you could offer “CEO on HackerNews” as a marketing service - keep an eye on posts involving your company and impersonate the CEO as necessary- and of course be able to actually call him in if needed. Probably already being done …
The thing about CEOs on HN is they have to say the right thing to be appealing. CEO on HN saying the wrong thing can really nail down the impression that a company is doing something awful and it’s not just the fault of the marketing intern or some misguided but well intentioned employee. If you hear the same crap from the top in a supposedly personal comment, there’s not much room left for assuming the best.
That's why the service would be so valuable! People perfectly trained to craft just the right amount of "mea culpa" and "we'll make this right" and "we're not actually lizardmen from mars".
Heck, if you had multiple clients you could even "reinforce" each other. It's so good ... I'm kind of scared it's already being done.
Heck, if you had multiple clients you could even "reinforce" each other. It's so good ... I'm kind of scared it's already being done.
The reason it brings joy is because they think it's from a human. If they knew it wasn't it wouldn't bring joy.
Thats true for every product though. People are willing to pay more for something that pretends to be hand made rather than something manufactured. There is no new insight here.
They are willing to pay more for something they think is hand made, not for something they know pretends to be handmade. Fraud is not excusable.
Somehow Starbucks seems to excel at bringing prepackaged microwave food to a personalized premium price point. I stand there and watch them put it in the microwave.
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Until everyone finds out what is happening and another last source of human connection becomes ruined. Writing a post about it is a surefire way to get there, but having te idea in the first place is how you start.
no more dystopian than AI text or image generation.
The real down-side to this, as with deepfakes, I think, is not that it makes fake things look real, but that it makes all real things possibly fake.
I really wish they had opened sourced this. Was just thinking of exactly that post, thanks for finding it.
It really makes a difference to have hand written with a pen as long as you have a font with multiple letter variants/subtly differences between the same letter used repeatedly.
It really makes a difference to have hand written with a pen as long as you have a font with multiple letter variants/subtly differences between the same letter used repeatedly.
Open sourced the hardware or the software part? (Note: I'm the author of that twitter thread.)
The hardest part was probably the handwriting "generation." I put "generation" in quotes because it was mostly selecting one of the characters from the library of characters that we captured and putting it together with other characters.
The hardware had a lot of hard spots, but I think they were mostly hard because that was my first real foray into hardware.
The hardest part was probably the handwriting "generation." I put "generation" in quotes because it was mostly selecting one of the characters from the library of characters that we captured and putting it together with other characters.
The hardware had a lot of hard spots, but I think they were mostly hard because that was my first real foray into hardware.
Both? The hardware? I loved what you did and would love to replicate it.
yes ,because what we need is airplane-loads of machine-produced paper notes to travel around the world
Anyone who owns real estate in certain markets is already familiar with the mountains of “handwritten” notes offering to buy far under market value. This’ll just make it harder to detect.
Reinventing the wheel. Hand writing robots at scale was a market for decades from the 1950's. They went away when desktop publishing arrived.
Maybe, but what a fun wheel it was to reinvent! Honestly one of the more fun things I've done in my career.
I guess I could've just made another static site generator though ;)
I guess I could've just made another static site generator though ;)
https://nitter.net/aarondfrancis/status/1438888219471491074
The "mobile.twitter.com" link doesn't work (for me, on desktop).
The "mobile.twitter.com" link doesn't work (for me, on desktop).
As an AxiDraw pen plotter experimenter, I think business notes is the wrong market for this.
I’ve always thought wedding invitations would be better. Rather than faking handwriting the pen is used much in the way an emboss or deboss is - to raise the quality and prestige of the document. Fountain pens allow for intricate ink sheen and color combinations. Customers are also not price sensitive.
I’ve always thought wedding invitations would be better. Rather than faking handwriting the pen is used much in the way an emboss or deboss is - to raise the quality and prestige of the document. Fountain pens allow for intricate ink sheen and color combinations. Customers are also not price sensitive.
In my experience (I created the robots in that twitter thread) the problem with the wedding invitations market is that they have to be almost totally perfect. With mass mail, you can have skew, slant, weird characters and it doesn't super matter.
I've received seemingly hand-written "thank you/please buy more" notes from Soylent. Given the source, I have always suspected that they are an automated "forgery" in some sense. I wouldn't be surprised if they are truly hand-written, but it is interesting that I just can't accept them the same way as I do a hand-written note from, let's say, a local shop or a charity.
(I don't recommend Soylent, I just use it sometimes when I'm feeling mildly self-destructive and not feeling like eating healthy food, so it's my occasional "harm reduction" alternative to getting fast-food or trash processed food)
(I don't recommend Soylent, I just use it sometimes when I'm feeling mildly self-destructive and not feeling like eating healthy food, so it's my occasional "harm reduction" alternative to getting fast-food or trash processed food)
Glad you enjoyed that! I built those robots :)
That thread was previously posted to HN (linked below in some replies) and the responses were... mixed, to say the least!
That thread was previously posted to HN (linked below in some replies) and the responses were... mixed, to say the least!
It's a shame this technology is used to deceive sincerity rather than just show off how advanced technology has become. Imagine an art house selling the "mass-produced" type of pieces you decorate hallways and hotels with, except they have a robot front and center in which you can watch the robot create your painting in real time!
Discussed here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574908
and here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28587458
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574908
and here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28587458
and if you're ousted you're a manipulative prick in my book. i get all kinds of "hand written" marketing mail.
That was awesome! Thank you for the link.
Ultimately, culture will be defined by a strange sort of radical authenticity defined by ever more subtle and specific signals of genuine humanity.
Sophisticated cants will emerge that are structurally challenging for computers to emulate.
And because there's a lot of work going into preventing AI from computing anything racist, sexist, or offensive to HR, the new ways of communicating will likely gravitate towards those spaces -- but ironically.
Sophisticated cants will emerge that are structurally challenging for computers to emulate.
And because there's a lot of work going into preventing AI from computing anything racist, sexist, or offensive to HR, the new ways of communicating will likely gravitate towards those spaces -- but ironically.
Interesting idea.
Reflecting on it, people already use what would otherwise be unacceptable slurs with their closest friends (at least IME in the UK). Using this as a human-computer differentiator is intriguing. Kinda like if non-humans were really incapable of purposeful harm to humans you could get someone to pinch you to show they're not a bot... CAPTCHA of the future!
Reflecting on it, people already use what would otherwise be unacceptable slurs with their closest friends (at least IME in the UK). Using this as a human-computer differentiator is intriguing. Kinda like if non-humans were really incapable of purposeful harm to humans you could get someone to pinch you to show they're not a bot... CAPTCHA of the future!
> people already use what would otherwise be unacceptable slurs with their closest friends
I suspect this happens everywhere. For a hilarious send up of this, see "Gran Torino".
I suspect this happens everywhere. For a hilarious send up of this, see "Gran Torino".
I'm no historian or linguist, but there has to be a historical parallel here, right? Some empire somewhere banning some words or disparagement of the queen and so the rabble makes up some words or phrase to mean the same things. A cycle of banning then kicks off and suddenly sausages over 4 fingers long mean that the king is a doofus or some other such strange thing.
I like handwritten thank you notes. Especially when they are from a small shop, include some message like "enjoy!", often from one of the owners, and they don't offer me anything else. No promo, no discount, just a thank you.
It feels human. I like it.
So of course there's now some kind of marketing scheme trying to deprive it of its soul and see if it can be automated and optimized for.
It feels human. I like it.
So of course there's now some kind of marketing scheme trying to deprive it of its soul and see if it can be automated and optimized for.
Being kind is fine and all, but my one gripe with it is that it doesn’t make me any money. Glad to see the dark days of being nice without any ROI are ending.
> Being kind is fine and all,
Being kind is not always necessary, but being respectful goes a long way.
People (especially the type who participate in this forum) frequently equate kindness with weakness. I really get sick of that attitude. It's not an "either/or" thing. It's entirely possible to be kind, and also to have strong boundaries, and real mettle.
Respect is something that is usually (not always) appreciated; even by our enemies.
Cops are often quite respectful to you, as they slap on the bracelets.
> but my one gripe with it is that it doesn’t make me any money.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. These are exactly the types of things that are almost impossible to measure, except in a rather vague way (i.e. "Six months after we started our personalized letter campaign, our sales increased by 30%").
Being kind is not always necessary, but being respectful goes a long way.
People (especially the type who participate in this forum) frequently equate kindness with weakness. I really get sick of that attitude. It's not an "either/or" thing. It's entirely possible to be kind, and also to have strong boundaries, and real mettle.
Respect is something that is usually (not always) appreciated; even by our enemies.
Cops are often quite respectful to you, as they slap on the bracelets.
> but my one gripe with it is that it doesn’t make me any money.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. These are exactly the types of things that are almost impossible to measure, except in a rather vague way (i.e. "Six months after we started our personalized letter campaign, our sales increased by 30%").
Being kind only has some ROI if you use it as a machiavellian tool.
One of the endlessly frustrating things about modern capitalism is knowing that if I don't monetize my kindness, there are usually two people profiting: one who monetizes my kindness instead, and one who learns to simulate it.
Both of those people are almost certainly assholes.
It's not psychologically healthy to change my behavior as a result, or to dwell on the above, but the fact that my psychologically healthy behaviors are trivially exploited for someone else's monetary gain seems like a major flaw in the system.
Both of those people are almost certainly assholes.
It's not psychologically healthy to change my behavior as a result, or to dwell on the above, but the fact that my psychologically healthy behaviors are trivially exploited for someone else's monetary gain seems like a major flaw in the system.
It's not a major flaw in the system, it is a primary function and characteristic of the system and its inherent logic
Strong agree.
Being kind is a cultural trait that we have been selected for, over generations, to increase our chances of survival and also ROI. There is nothing gratuitous about it once you understand where humans come from.
Yet many humans still choose to be unkind, rude or obnoxious.
So I'll pick the kind ones, regardless.
So I'll pick the kind ones, regardless.
Older people tend to be nice, as decades of experience teaches them that being obnoxious doesn't work.
It seems your comment is being taken at face value.
What was the name of the pertinent internet rule? Poe's Law?
What was the name of the pertinent internet rule? Poe's Law?
Those handwritten notes take people. People who want a job and will work hard.
At 1st Phorm everyone* writes notes that go with orders. Many people start as note writers and then move to other departments as they work alongside people and form relationships. Those people see the hard work that goes on and really get to the mission and purpose each and every day.
Sure, you can’t charge for the note. But hiring and building up a company who cares for your customers in small ways means hiring for other positions is easy: you’ve got the people right here.
Edit: everyone* who can. Obviously remote folks can’t do this…
At 1st Phorm everyone* writes notes that go with orders. Many people start as note writers and then move to other departments as they work alongside people and form relationships. Those people see the hard work that goes on and really get to the mission and purpose each and every day.
Sure, you can’t charge for the note. But hiring and building up a company who cares for your customers in small ways means hiring for other positions is easy: you’ve got the people right here.
Edit: everyone* who can. Obviously remote folks can’t do this…
I get "handwritten" letters asking to buy my house. I've looked at quite a few with a magnifying glass. All of them have been printed so far, except one was signed with a ballpoint pen! I was actually quite excited to find that someone had gone to the trouble of setting up a robosigner, but I didn't think anyone else would find it as exciting as me.
I will counter that i get those hand written notes to buy my house (clearly a marketing effort) which turns me off so fast. Does anyone reach out to those fake hand written offers? Only real hand written note i got in the mail was from jehovas witness outreach campaign on lined paper that couldn't have been faked. To be fair, it caught my attention but was swiftly dismissed.
Hah! In Quebec, Canada. The Witness folk did this here, last summer. I think it was because they couldn't go door to door, due to pandemic.
To be fair, I guess it is legit, as each person is writing notes, instead of going to door to door.
Was this last summer for you? Am curious, where is your approx location?
To be fair, I guess it is legit, as each person is writing notes, instead of going to door to door.
Was this last summer for you? Am curious, where is your approx location?
We used this tactic as a growth hack in our early days (2016), and it worked great!
It also inspires sharing on Twitter, which helps drive the recommendation flywheel:
https://twitter.com/tdnvl/status/722882182759452675
The trouble is that it isn't easily scalable in-house at high volume. It was great until we realized that we were managing a large scale mailroom. But by then the flywheel was spinning ...
It also inspires sharing on Twitter, which helps drive the recommendation flywheel:
https://twitter.com/tdnvl/status/722882182759452675
The trouble is that it isn't easily scalable in-house at high volume. It was great until we realized that we were managing a large scale mailroom. But by then the flywheel was spinning ...
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I was wondering if it would work for saas businesses, as the article talks mostly about e-commerce and hospitality.
I was wondering if it would work for saas businesses, as the article talks mostly about e-commerce and hospitality.
That bar chart looks like something out of "How to Lie with Statistics". Going from $26 to $52 - doubling is a nice and significant result, there's no reason to fiddle with the Y axis to make it look like a 6x instead.
I used to live across the street from a guy who ran a drop ship style handwritten note business. Has a big warehouse full of people writing notes. He was absolutely loaded.
Let's monetize and scale all forms of humanity. For sure, this will not decrease trust between people in the vein of what happened to the "salesman smile".
Sponsored paragraphs that are indistinguishable from your main content and are inserted everywhere in your article increase the likelihood I will never come back to your website.
I had an original piece of art framed by a local art gallery a few years ago.
This year, they sent me a $50 off coupon in the mail, along with a card and a hand-written and personalized note referencing the specific piece of art I had had them frame.
Instant customer for life.
This year, they sent me a $50 off coupon in the mail, along with a card and a hand-written and personalized note referencing the specific piece of art I had had them frame.
Instant customer for life.
Recently bought a espresso machine, the company that sold it included a hand written thank you and a few candies in the packaging. I found it really interesting, and felt good about it and so I found myself using them to buy a few other items for brewing coffee.
Then they signed me up for a newsletter, blocked their domain and stopped using them ever-since.
Then they signed me up for a newsletter, blocked their domain and stopped using them ever-since.
I get enormous value out of having a box of thank you cards, envelopes, and stamps in easy reach. I keep a box on my desk and in my travel bag. When someone does something for me (e.g., an introduction, buys lunch), I have little friction to sending them a note. They are often delighted to receive them, as it is so rare now.
We did this a lot in our early days, and while we didn't correlate it with spending, customers occasionally would acknowledge the note in future conversations.
To me, it falls in the category of "do things that don't scale" as you try to grow your business. An over-emphasis on customer service is rarely a bad idea.
To me, it falls in the category of "do things that don't scale" as you try to grow your business. An over-emphasis on customer service is rarely a bad idea.
The premise of the story is nonsense. If you are selling someone a coffee then some doodle is going to please some, however, the important interactions are in customer service and YOU DO NOT WANT ANY HAND WRITTEN NOTES.
I automate customer service emails, starting with the stats to see what the problems are. If all the time is taken up on mysteriously cancelled orders that are not communicated, I slice that off from 'manual intervention' to a well written, considerate and concise email that pulls through pertinent customer order details.
It will take me hours to develop, test and deploy that template, however, once done, it will be well received by the customer. There is a 'from the customer service team' rather than a fake name. The customer service team doesn't even have to press a button for this one to go out, it will be automated.
In time I will go for the other time taking parts of customer service, the goal really being to eliminate as much as possible. What remains can then be given the personal touch, with hand written notes and calls, if need be.
Once this is achieved, customer service can be pro-active rather than reactive.
Getting to this stage takes work. Initially it can be one calamity after another with a random roster of temporary staff of a low literacy level, possibly outsourced having to write what are essentially hand written notes. None of those notes are any good. It is at the txt spk level of communication.
I automate customer service emails, starting with the stats to see what the problems are. If all the time is taken up on mysteriously cancelled orders that are not communicated, I slice that off from 'manual intervention' to a well written, considerate and concise email that pulls through pertinent customer order details.
It will take me hours to develop, test and deploy that template, however, once done, it will be well received by the customer. There is a 'from the customer service team' rather than a fake name. The customer service team doesn't even have to press a button for this one to go out, it will be automated.
In time I will go for the other time taking parts of customer service, the goal really being to eliminate as much as possible. What remains can then be given the personal touch, with hand written notes and calls, if need be.
Once this is achieved, customer service can be pro-active rather than reactive.
Getting to this stage takes work. Initially it can be one calamity after another with a random roster of temporary staff of a low literacy level, possibly outsourced having to write what are essentially hand written notes. None of those notes are any good. It is at the txt spk level of communication.
I got what looked like one while ordering some cheap parts from China, then realised it was just a font. It was memorable but did not increase my chances of ordering from the seller due to other issues with the product. I suspect once everyone starts doing it, it will no longer be memorable nor have any other effect.
These days if I get a thank-you note that looks handwritten I hold it up to the light and check for pen indentations.
Usually just run your finger over it. If the letters are raised or flat, they are printed. If they are indented, they're (usually) handwritten, especially if the indentation is inconsistent.
Reminded me of the protagonist's profession in Her[0]. At that time, I wasn't entirely convinced that that would be a viable profession but here we are. Already.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film)
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film)
There's a reason that high-end* retailers require their sales people to send hand-written thank you notes: it works. My wife works in this space, and says it's an incredibly important part of the customer retention process.
Tech people always ridicule written communication, but then idolize Japanese culture, where written communication is so massively important. Funny how that mental disconnect works.
* By "high end" I mean the sort of place where customers routinely spend $90,000 in a single purchase, and several million per year at a single store.
Tech people always ridicule written communication, but then idolize Japanese culture, where written communication is so massively important. Funny how that mental disconnect works.
* By "high end" I mean the sort of place where customers routinely spend $90,000 in a single purchase, and several million per year at a single store.
At those prices you can afford to hire someone to follow the customer around with a broom to sweep the street in front of them.
Part of it is also signaling that you are NOT too busy to write the letter - which means you are not overloaded and will be available when needed.
Part of it is also signaling that you are NOT too busy to write the letter - which means you are not overloaded and will be available when needed.
What does “half-written” mean, in this context?
I assume that meant hand written.
“Dearest Kon-Peki, thank you for purchasing the hydraulic wall crusher 9000. I think you will find this one will last slightly longer than the 8000, but as always, I am ready to sell you the newest model of this one were to suffer the ignominy so many do.”
(It’s probably jewelry but it often amuses me that small businesses will spend millions on equipment with a phone call and some grunting but other purchases for half the money require so much hand holding.)
“Dearest Kon-Peki, thank you for purchasing the hydraulic wall crusher 9000. I think you will find this one will last slightly longer than the 8000, but as always, I am ready to sell you the newest model of this one were to suffer the ignominy so many do.”
(It’s probably jewelry but it often amuses me that small businesses will spend millions on equipment with a phone call and some grunting but other purchases for half the money require so much hand holding.)
Equipment and tools are productivity multipliers and good ones can be resold for same value - wear.
Think of it like dual monitors, do tech companies often balk at getting someone a second monitor or is it a no brainer?
Think of it like dual monitors, do tech companies often balk at getting someone a second monitor or is it a no brainer?
Yes. Foiled by autocorrect.
Thanks :)
I wasn't sure if there was a term of art that I was missing :)
I wasn't sure if there was a term of art that I was missing :)
> Give customers a high-quality copy of a handwritten note
So, not actually handwritten. Even it were actually handwritten, as a customer I’d still assume it to be a mass copy.
So, not actually handwritten. Even it were actually handwritten, as a customer I’d still assume it to be a mass copy.
It says "experiments show" but I'd need to know the methodology.
There is a real risk of selection bias here in that you only send handwritten thank you notes to your biggest, most loyal or most important clients. There is a line in this about it's only effective with clients who have some brand loyalty. So did the experiment account for this?
I'm reminded of of the "we value your opinion" or (worse) "you've been selected" for a survey. Surveys are zero cost of the Internet so I haven't been carefully chosen. That survey has simply been sent to everyone. It feels inauthentic.
If I buy a lime juicer and get a hand written thank you note it would similarly feel inauthentic.
High value clients tend to be high touch. It's why big ad spenders have account managers. High touch can take many forms. I'd be wary of simply trusting handwritten thank you notes in a vaccum.
There is a real risk of selection bias here in that you only send handwritten thank you notes to your biggest, most loyal or most important clients. There is a line in this about it's only effective with clients who have some brand loyalty. So did the experiment account for this?
I'm reminded of of the "we value your opinion" or (worse) "you've been selected" for a survey. Surveys are zero cost of the Internet so I haven't been carefully chosen. That survey has simply been sent to everyone. It feels inauthentic.
If I buy a lime juicer and get a hand written thank you note it would similarly feel inauthentic.
High value clients tend to be high touch. It's why big ad spenders have account managers. High touch can take many forms. I'd be wary of simply trusting handwritten thank you notes in a vaccum.
Here's the one that I got from my fave wine shop. No surprise they went out of business after putting all the effort into their schwag.
https://imgur.com/bNUtLtV
(Handwritten, not a print)
(Handwritten, not a print)
Now what you hear is not a test: I'm rappin' to the beat
God, it's stuck in my head again.
God, it's stuck in my head again.
[deleted]
Seems like a decent use case for Postpilot’s handwritten notes. I wonder if those would be as effective?
[0] https://www.postpilot.com/
[0] https://www.postpilot.com/
> Our all-new handwritten cards are created by our proprietary robots. We use real pens with real ink to write your cards with all the personality of a human hand.
Good idea, until everyone starts using it and starts recognising the writing by the robot, then it becomes creepy instead.
Good idea, until everyone starts using it and starts recognising the writing by the robot, then it becomes creepy instead.
Not only that, but actual cards written by humans will be mislabeled as cheap robot spam.
I really wonder what font they are using. The big challenge is not finding a handwritten style font but finding a font with multiple different variants of each letter.
It becomes painfully obvious if you have two of the same letter in a row that are exactly the same. I’ve only found a couple of fonts that have that variability within a single letter and it’s pretty stunning how big of a difference it makes
It becomes painfully obvious if you have two of the same letter in a row that are exactly the same. I’ve only found a couple of fonts that have that variability within a single letter and it’s pretty stunning how big of a difference it makes
There’s the famous "random" font Beowulf [0], and also a list of such fonts [1].
[0] https://letterror.com/fonts/beowolf.html
[1] http://luc.devroye.org/randomizedfonts.html
[0] https://letterror.com/fonts/beowolf.html
[1] http://luc.devroye.org/randomizedfonts.html
I do wonder if every marketing study actually has the conclusion "almost anything you do will increase sales as long as it's something the customer hasn't seen before". The Novelty Effect is real.
I would bet it would have a pretty decent effects. I’m a digital marketer/growth guy and right now I think the least crowded inbox is the mailbox.
But not standard postcards or mass mailers.
An example: I worked for an apparel company selling custom apparel (shirts and hoodies mostly) to army Battalions/Companies/Platoons…
We managed to grab 28% market share of an army base for $150.00 by sending a sales letter with a knock out offer and a Rubik’s cube (there were actually two rounds of mailers but the total of both of them was $150)
Had the company’s supply chain not imploded it should’ve brought as much as $300,000 in gross profits of the course of the year. I’d say a 2000x ROI is not bad for a week of work and a couple hundred dollars in materials.
I think lumpy mailers à la The Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes are a phenomenal way to cut through the clutter with CPM‘s skyrocketing and conversion rates plummeting for PPC marketing.
But not standard postcards or mass mailers.
An example: I worked for an apparel company selling custom apparel (shirts and hoodies mostly) to army Battalions/Companies/Platoons…
We managed to grab 28% market share of an army base for $150.00 by sending a sales letter with a knock out offer and a Rubik’s cube (there were actually two rounds of mailers but the total of both of them was $150)
Had the company’s supply chain not imploded it should’ve brought as much as $300,000 in gross profits of the course of the year. I’d say a 2000x ROI is not bad for a week of work and a couple hundred dollars in materials.
I think lumpy mailers à la The Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes are a phenomenal way to cut through the clutter with CPM‘s skyrocketing and conversion rates plummeting for PPC marketing.
200% this is how I learned marketing. Sales letters. Dan Kennedy, Chet Holmes, etc.
Here's another interesting stat: Joe Girard is in the Guinness Book of World Records as the "World's Greatest Salesman." Ave car salesmen would sell ~5 cars/month and Joe sold 6-7/day.
He attributed his success to one tactic: handwritten notes to customers https://www.handwrite.io/case-studies/joe-girard-worlds-grea...
Here's another interesting stat: Joe Girard is in the Guinness Book of World Records as the "World's Greatest Salesman." Ave car salesmen would sell ~5 cars/month and Joe sold 6-7/day.
He attributed his success to one tactic: handwritten notes to customers https://www.handwrite.io/case-studies/joe-girard-worlds-grea...
Love it. I’ve heard Joe Girard did some questionable things to get in the door (calling during the day to get the spouse, then calling later an insinuating that spouse had requested a call) but he also did a lot of things that was digging the well for long term growth (the Christmas and birthday cards, for example).
Love it, thanks for the comment
Love it, thanks for the comment
That was our thesis when we acquired Handwrite.io and merged the functionality into PostPilot.com
We've had a decent sample size thus far of DTC brands using the handwriting. Mostly for "VIP-thank-yous" or founder/influencer-driven brands.
But results are encouraging. Across our 000s of stores we are seeing 1) increase in end customer spend and 2) increase in frequency of purchase (retention) for stores that use the handwriting.
We've had a decent sample size thus far of DTC brands using the handwriting. Mostly for "VIP-thank-yous" or founder/influencer-driven brands.
But results are encouraging. Across our 000s of stores we are seeing 1) increase in end customer spend and 2) increase in frequency of purchase (retention) for stores that use the handwriting.
49 cents per piece for a non-first class postcard is quite a bit, and that doesn’t include handwriting. (They want 2.99 for a handwritten card and outer envelope)
I’d be interested in learning more about just their handwriting tech and if they could parse it out from the rest of their printing and shipping process
I’d be interested in learning more about just their handwriting tech and if they could parse it out from the rest of their printing and shipping process
Yeah we can.
Price/card goes down with higher plans. Enterprise approaches cost as we have printers in house.
The "tech" is a bunch of robots (not self-aware) in a room writing 24-7
Price/card goes down with higher plans. Enterprise approaches cost as we have printers in house.
The "tech" is a bunch of robots (not self-aware) in a room writing 24-7
[deleted]
more like "Do things that don't scale"
This comment is handwritten, in a way
[deleted]
Legacy Kansas State football coach agrees: https://www.staugustine.com/story/sports/2014/12/26/snyders-...
this is all based on a South Korean study, and this the claim assumes western consumers have the same values and behaviors as East Asian consumers.
The blog owner for this openly injects adz right before the main content, and after, so I wouldn’t take anything they say with any seriousness.
The blog owner for this openly injects adz right before the main content, and after, so I wouldn’t take anything they say with any seriousness.
I totally believe this. I often get coffee delivered, and some baristas write a little "Thanks!" Or "Have a great day, Om!" or "Enjoy your coffee, Om!" on the paper bag, and it always makes me feel like 'Oh nice, they care!'.
We order a lot of meals for delivery and one of the restaurants always includes a handwritten note thanking us and wishing us a nice meal. It's such a simple thing to do and really makes a nice touch, I'll have to admit.
The idea of looking at a handwritten note and concluding that the company cares about me specifically or that it was an actual social interaction of any significance is just so bizarre.
Maybe it's a coconut vs. peach culture thing?
Maybe it's a coconut vs. peach culture thing?
It's an indicator. If someone writes me a note along with my purchase, my confidence that they care about their product is higher than receiving a mass-produced receipt. Of course, this article is specifically about people that game it, but I appreciate a personal touch.
Well, if this is provable and significant, here's an idea for a YC startup -- handwritten than you notes as as service (HTYNAAS)! Perhaps a pen plotter can write them, and some AI net can give it the human touch.
If this piece of wisdom becomes well-known and every shop does it, then it won't be special anymore and customers will ignore those pieces of fluff.
Then again maybe shop owners will feel rude if they don't join the "common courtesy" of putting in thank you notes, and so your HTYNAAS might have a chance after all. You just need to guilt-trip them into buying it. I say this tongue-in-cheek, it'd be awful if we wasted money, time and paper because "thank you for shopping" notes became obligatory.
Then again maybe shop owners will feel rude if they don't join the "common courtesy" of putting in thank you notes, and so your HTYNAAS might have a chance after all. You just need to guilt-trip them into buying it. I say this tongue-in-cheek, it'd be awful if we wasted money, time and paper because "thank you for shopping" notes became obligatory.
For the love of all that is human and sacred, please no!
I drop a post it saying “thank you” and the song I was listening to while making each part at oakclifflaser.com but my orders are in teh single digits per month haha
/it’s just a hobby thing I run for my rocket buddies
/it’s just a hobby thing I run for my rocket buddies
I'm pretty sure I know who is sponsoring this. I've seen those bullet points before ;) And if that is indeed the case, then this is a very masterful piece of marketing.
Reminds me of the start of Her where Joaquin Phoenix writes love letters for couples in the near future world of the movie.
Fucking marketers just want to destroy all sincerity in the world.
Well, yes, but... take away from this something less grim. It's something a friend who was in marketing used to say to me all of the time: "good customer service is the best marketing, and it's often very nearly free."
Chick-fil-a figured this out years ago. Their employees are required to be nice and kind, and they can get fired for having a crappy attitude. This sounds awful, Stepford-wifeish, but in reality it improves the working environment for the employees and for the customers, and it costs practically nothing. The stores aren't wildly successful simply because their (let's be honest) sorta bland chicken sandwiches are indescribably delicious. The last interaction you have with the store is a pleasant one, and that's why you're happy to go back.
(Raising Cane's does this as well, and their chicken is better.)
Sending out thank-you notes is relatively cheap, and it has an impact.
Chick-fil-a figured this out years ago. Their employees are required to be nice and kind, and they can get fired for having a crappy attitude. This sounds awful, Stepford-wifeish, but in reality it improves the working environment for the employees and for the customers, and it costs practically nothing. The stores aren't wildly successful simply because their (let's be honest) sorta bland chicken sandwiches are indescribably delicious. The last interaction you have with the store is a pleasant one, and that's why you're happy to go back.
(Raising Cane's does this as well, and their chicken is better.)
Sending out thank-you notes is relatively cheap, and it has an impact.
> (Raising Cane's does this as well, and their chicken is better.)
Hard disagree.
I've never had chicken that is rubbery/contains a tendon from CFA, it's basically guaranteed to happen every time I try Cane's, to the point where I've basically stopped eating there.
It's a sign to me that they only go "skin deep" on quality, because it's not "inedible" but while you're eating the last thing I want is a bite of it to be rubbery and fall apart in my hand because of it.
Hard disagree.
I've never had chicken that is rubbery/contains a tendon from CFA, it's basically guaranteed to happen every time I try Cane's, to the point where I've basically stopped eating there.
It's a sign to me that they only go "skin deep" on quality, because it's not "inedible" but while you're eating the last thing I want is a bite of it to be rubbery and fall apart in my hand because of it.
Sending out a “hand” written thank you letter long after a transaction is completed and real time customer service at the time of transaction are not comparable actions of customer service.
My dad has been ordering green tea from a particular seller for maybe 10 years now, in part because they include a lovely little handwritten note for each order. It is absolutely comparable.
Customer service at the time of sale are things like promptly taking my order, being sufficiently staffed to minimize and address possible issues, and just having a quick, consistent, friendly experience.
If seller A is offering the above but no handwritten note, and seller B is not offering the above at the level of seller A, but is offering a handwritten note, I will chose seller A every time.
This thread makes me think I should possibly assign negative value for a hand written note.
If seller A is offering the above but no handwritten note, and seller B is not offering the above at the level of seller A, but is offering a handwritten note, I will chose seller A every time.
This thread makes me think I should possibly assign negative value for a hand written note.
Sounds like What-Cha. Can absolutely recommend him.
It's yuu.choose[1]
[1] https://www.ebay.com/usr/yuu.choose
[1] https://www.ebay.com/usr/yuu.choose
Well, it certainly depends. I'm not expecting McDonald's to send me a thank-you note. I was talking in generalities, not specifics.
I frequent a local store that sells boutique art supplies. Natural paints and that sort of thing. They are very customer-focused, and while hand-written thank-yous aren't something they do, if they started doing them I wouldn't be surprised. They know and appreciate their customers, and were particularly good during COVID, as the owners had health issues that made them concerned. They survived, partially due to their customer service, which included direct messaging as required to make sure people were able to shop and get their purchases easily and safely.
I frequent a local store that sells boutique art supplies. Natural paints and that sort of thing. They are very customer-focused, and while hand-written thank-yous aren't something they do, if they started doing them I wouldn't be surprised. They know and appreciate their customers, and were particularly good during COVID, as the owners had health issues that made them concerned. They survived, partially due to their customer service, which included direct messaging as required to make sure people were able to shop and get their purchases easily and safely.
I don't have much evidence to support this claim, but as best I can tell Chick-fil-a has far superior food quality than Raising Cane's. Chick-fil-a holds their ingredients & preparation to the same high standard as they do their customer service, whereas Raising Cane's is much more hit-or-miss, a lot more like the McDonalds or Burger Kings out there.
One thing you can look at is the nutrition label. Total calorie counts aren't so useful IMO, but Raising Cane's reports that their foods have unhealthy trans fats, while Chick-fil-a reports 0 trans fats.
Raising Cane's makes me sick whenever I get it, whereas Chick-fil-a is extremely well digested for me.
Do you eat a lot of junk food generally in your diet? That could be one reason why maybe your gut bacteria are craving the worse quality food & causing you to not enjoy CFA as much.
One thing you can look at is the nutrition label. Total calorie counts aren't so useful IMO, but Raising Cane's reports that their foods have unhealthy trans fats, while Chick-fil-a reports 0 trans fats.
Raising Cane's makes me sick whenever I get it, whereas Chick-fil-a is extremely well digested for me.
Do you eat a lot of junk food generally in your diet? That could be one reason why maybe your gut bacteria are craving the worse quality food & causing you to not enjoy CFA as much.
>I don't have much evidence to support this claim
No, but you're going to make the claim anyways, aren't you?
>but as best I can tell Chick-fil-a has far superior food quality than Raising Cane's. Chick-fil-a holds their ingredients & preparation to the same high standard as they do their customer service, whereas Raising Cane's is much more hit-or-miss, a lot more like the McDonalds or Burger Kings out there.
Ah, yep. I can tell you've had some bad experiences with Raising Cane's.
>Raising Cane's makes me sick whenever I get it, whereas Chick-fil-a is extremely well digested for me.
Both of them make me sick! I can't digest either.
>Do you eat a lot of junk food generally in your diet? That could be one reason why maybe your gut bacteria are craving the worse quality food & causing you to not enjoy CFA as much.
I think I have to ask you the same question! Do you eat a lot of low quality fast food? That could be one reason your gut bacteria are craving food from a fast food joint instead of something that isn't deep fried and covered in Polynesian sauce.
No, but you're going to make the claim anyways, aren't you?
>but as best I can tell Chick-fil-a has far superior food quality than Raising Cane's. Chick-fil-a holds their ingredients & preparation to the same high standard as they do their customer service, whereas Raising Cane's is much more hit-or-miss, a lot more like the McDonalds or Burger Kings out there.
Ah, yep. I can tell you've had some bad experiences with Raising Cane's.
>Raising Cane's makes me sick whenever I get it, whereas Chick-fil-a is extremely well digested for me.
Both of them make me sick! I can't digest either.
>Do you eat a lot of junk food generally in your diet? That could be one reason why maybe your gut bacteria are craving the worse quality food & causing you to not enjoy CFA as much.
I think I have to ask you the same question! Do you eat a lot of low quality fast food? That could be one reason your gut bacteria are craving food from a fast food joint instead of something that isn't deep fried and covered in Polynesian sauce.
Why so hostile? We're just talking about fast food man, lol.
> Do you eat a lot of low quality fast food? That could be one reason your gut bacteria are craving food from a fast food joint instead of something that isn't deep fried and covered in Polynesian sauce.
No, I don't, which is why I don't crave fast food. I get Chick-fil-a once or twice a month for fun.
> Do you eat a lot of low quality fast food? That could be one reason your gut bacteria are craving food from a fast food joint instead of something that isn't deep fried and covered in Polynesian sauce.
No, I don't, which is why I don't crave fast food. I get Chick-fil-a once or twice a month for fun.
To me, fast food is fast food.
Your comment about your preferred deep fried bird eatery being better than another commenter's preferred deep fried bird eatery just came off as bizarre.
My poison is better than your poison.
Your comment about your preferred deep fried bird eatery being better than another commenter's preferred deep fried bird eatery just came off as bizarre.
My poison is better than your poison.
>Do you eat a lot of junk food generally in your diet?
No. Though I will admit that I've had access to Chick-fil-a since the 80s, so it's kind of blase to me now. Newness has a quality of its own, I guess.
No. Though I will admit that I've had access to Chick-fil-a since the 80s, so it's kind of blase to me now. Newness has a quality of its own, I guess.
[deleted]
Yup until recently, they had no real competition in the fast food chicken sandwich game. Popeyes and McDonalds have caught up some amount, but not fully. They also don’t have waffle fries. In college, the line for the Chic Fil A was impossibly long every single day because the food was great. It also somehow doesn’t give you as much of the bad feeling you usually get after eating fast food.
The midtown locations in New York are also incredibly efficient. They take orders on iPads in the line and the order is done by the time you get to the front.
The midtown locations in New York are also incredibly efficient. They take orders on iPads in the line and the order is done by the time you get to the front.
> good customer service is the best marketing, and it's often very nearly free
Free may apply less to CFA. One thing they don't get enough credit for is that they a decent amount more than their competitors who pay barely above minimum wage. It's clearly an investment that's payed off, but there is definitely a cost to it.
And Popeyes would be my go-to for chicken if it weren't so far away.
Free may apply less to CFA. One thing they don't get enough credit for is that they a decent amount more than their competitors who pay barely above minimum wage. It's clearly an investment that's payed off, but there is definitely a cost to it.
And Popeyes would be my go-to for chicken if it weren't so far away.
> Chick-fil-a figured this out years ago.
They have fairly good customer service, not sure if it's better then McDonald though... but their food though, it isn't good.
They have fairly good customer service, not sure if it's better then McDonald though... but their food though, it isn't good.
I had the same response. It should really read - sincere sales increase sales - thats the model. Whatever is considered to be the next sincere thing will be emulated by marketing and ruined.
Sincerity under payment has to be taken for what it is. I expect and appreciate to be treated nicely when going to a restaurant but I'm under no illusion that it's because I'm going to pay for it, otherwise I doubt all that people would be cooking, serving and cleaning afterwards with a smile in their face while I sit there saying thank you.
That plus "Receiving gratitude has an outsized impact on other's mental health."
In a few months, the headline will be:
Handwritten thank you notes no longer increase sales
Handwritten thank you notes no longer increase sales
So once everybody has automated this, the next level will be the handwritten note with a personal detail, which will increase (repeat) sales.
Back in the day, I used to write a handwritten note with every single box I sent out. Since I had often had a conversation with the customer prior to that, I could often include some personal detail, showing that the message was not generic but truly written for that person. (I did have a generic message that I would use in a minority of cases.)
It does take a little bit of dedication and love of the customer to do this over and over again, so I'm not convinced shady, unscrupulous marketers would do it.
Caveat: My business eventually failed, so...
Back in the day, I used to write a handwritten note with every single box I sent out. Since I had often had a conversation with the customer prior to that, I could often include some personal detail, showing that the message was not generic but truly written for that person. (I did have a generic message that I would use in a minority of cases.)
It does take a little bit of dedication and love of the customer to do this over and over again, so I'm not convinced shady, unscrupulous marketers would do it.
Caveat: My business eventually failed, so...
That depends on if they are handwritten, or some font that looks sort of like handwritten. At least until/unless AI can write thank yous that pass the Turing test. Right now the effort vs reward of a thank you is not worth it for most sales, and people can pick out computer generated thank yous.
Even then, Wal*Mart will never send you a thank you note - the cost of postage alone is too high. However car salesmen have long ago figured out it is worth writing a thank you - it only takes a few repeat customers to make the time and postage worth it.
That said, if you are a small business a handwritten thank you is good advice. Very few small business run a many customers with a low profit business model (only retail), and as such you are probably in one area where a handwritten thank you will help.
Even then, Wal*Mart will never send you a thank you note - the cost of postage alone is too high. However car salesmen have long ago figured out it is worth writing a thank you - it only takes a few repeat customers to make the time and postage worth it.
That said, if you are a small business a handwritten thank you is good advice. Very few small business run a many customers with a low profit business model (only retail), and as such you are probably in one area where a handwritten thank you will help.
It is a matter of semiotics.
At one point you need to scale, and you realise you can just manipulate symbols easier. They might at one point have come from sincerity, but industrial scale trumples all.
At one point you need to scale, and you realise you can just manipulate symbols easier. They might at one point have come from sincerity, but industrial scale trumples all.
And thus the simulation of sincerity leads us even deeper into the simulation. Baudrillard strikes again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation
And ultimately into Marcuse, with the Great Refusal.
> At one point you need to scale
Do you? Is growth so imperative that any end justifies it?
Do you? Is growth so imperative that any end justifies it?
Sure not, but when was it the case in capitalism? It is an illusion to think this kind of thing is reserved to marketing
Only when empowered by the minds of the unimaginative
Which is...the entire industry? I think this is a very simplistic view. Scale is pervasive in capitalism and not restricted to marketing. It is not being unimaginative, it is just a byproduct of the industry (isonomy and reproducibility over personalisation and personality).
Another interpretation would be that they are just uncovering the fact that behind many nice and kind behaviours lie some very selfish interests.
In every human interaction you can perceive the battle over power, social status and personal interests. It's just the way it is. Some people can see it, others not or just don't want to.
In every human interaction you can perceive the battle over power, social status and personal interests. It's just the way it is. Some people can see it, others not or just don't want to.
> In every human interaction you can perceive the battle over power, social status and personal interests.
I agree with this in general - but some interactions really are more about mutual feeling-good, than about power struggles. Of course, those interactions are necessarily with people who are close to us.
I think the better way to put this would be:
I agree with this in general - but some interactions really are more about mutual feeling-good, than about power struggles. Of course, those interactions are necessarily with people who are close to us.
I think the better way to put this would be:
In every interaction *with strangers* you can perceive the battle over power, social status and personal interests.Not sure if your statement is true even if I can see some relationships to be mutually beneficial. However, the term frenenemy exists for a reason.
I think some part of oneself is always calculating one's own value and power in relation to others. Some of these mechanics only become apparent if there is a big change in a relationship like one of your friend or family member becoming very successful for example.
I don't understand. Every one of my friends is an awesome person who deserves health, happiness, and security. If they find those things, I'm happy for them. What kind of person do you mislabel "friend" if you get upset that their life is becoming better?
Ressentiment is a real friendship killer.
It's one thing to be happy for your friend's success, it's another thing to watch your friend have all the things that you want in life but can't get, on a regular basis.
Of course, one could ask whether or not that friend has the responsibility to share his success with you, or whether or not it is right to feel that they do. Those are tricky questions, and asking them still doesn't stop ugly emotions from appearing. And since friendships are mostly based on good emotions, bad emotions cause issues.
Human interactions are simple in theory, but very complex in practice.
It's one thing to be happy for your friend's success, it's another thing to watch your friend have all the things that you want in life but can't get, on a regular basis.
Of course, one could ask whether or not that friend has the responsibility to share his success with you, or whether or not it is right to feel that they do. Those are tricky questions, and asking them still doesn't stop ugly emotions from appearing. And since friendships are mostly based on good emotions, bad emotions cause issues.
Human interactions are simple in theory, but very complex in practice.
True enough. Even though i can see it doesn't mean it isnt disappointing.
Tangentially related, do you think some people can see/feel power and are drawn in while other people are relatively immune to it? There are some people in the world that i see have a very good ability to read power etc while others are hopeless (for better or worse). Seems similar to your comment thats why i ask
Tangentially related, do you think some people can see/feel power and are drawn in while other people are relatively immune to it? There are some people in the world that i see have a very good ability to read power etc while others are hopeless (for better or worse). Seems similar to your comment thats why i ask
I think some people are way better at seeing these mechanics at play than others. it's what is called social intelligence I think. Yet it also can be midly depressing to see your friend trying to subtly decrease your social status by some harmless remarks when a woman is in the vicinity.
People who do not see it are most easily exploited by it. For example a person with low self-esteem who does (often unconsciously) signal it to others even if it worsens his situation even more.
People who do not see it are most easily exploited by it. For example a person with low self-esteem who does (often unconsciously) signal it to others even if it worsens his situation even more.
Most social interaction is best when it is a win-win for both parties, not manipulation for status.
However there is a visible minority that is about exploitation.
However there is a visible minority that is about exploitation.
We sincerely enjoy their TT enough to sincerely contemplate automating it so that everyone can receive appreciation :)
No but this is legitimate. You're supposed to do this and it is known to increase sales because it is virtuous--if it's virtuous, people will judge by the calligraphy.
Time to roll out the pen plotters to make fake handwriting!
I won’t post links but if you google “handwritten notes automation”, the top “results” are all ads from companies doing exactly that.
One of the mottos I saw - “Personalized Handwritten Direct Mail at Scale” (!) :)
One of the mottos I saw - “Personalized Handwritten Direct Mail at Scale” (!) :)
This has been going on for a while. I've seen it mostly in the "I will pay cash for your house" industry. The process has definitely gotten more convincing; before, all the letter shapes would be the same, but now there's enough variation that it's plausible that these notes are handwritten if it weren't for the context.
Or you could take it as, authentic sincerity increases sales.
> authentic sincerity increases sales
If you can fake that you've got it made.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/12/05/fake-honesty/
If you can fake that you've got it made.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/12/05/fake-honesty/
Every time I read more about marketing (for my business) it enrages me more.
I basically don't use twitter, but I find myself on the platform in rants about how exploitive and manipulative some people are willing to be.
There is one company that targets vunerable people with their relatively affordable Veblen goods to make them feel socially insecure if they buy an Android instead. It's so obvious when you read about it, but it's masked in edgy advertising.
Reading about a company's marketing strategy is probably not good for my health.
I basically don't use twitter, but I find myself on the platform in rants about how exploitive and manipulative some people are willing to be.
There is one company that targets vunerable people with their relatively affordable Veblen goods to make them feel socially insecure if they buy an Android instead. It's so obvious when you read about it, but it's masked in edgy advertising.
Reading about a company's marketing strategy is probably not good for my health.
TIL what a Veblen good is.
"Apple products are classified as Veblen products, because most often users choose them, guided by the big name of the brand and believing that the possession of this technology will increase their status in society."
https://lkrvk.com/the-veblen-effect-how-price-increases-affe...
"Apple products are classified as Veblen products, because most often users choose them, guided by the big name of the brand and believing that the possession of this technology will increase their status in society."
https://lkrvk.com/the-veblen-effect-how-price-increases-affe...
This nonsensical trope is trotted out on HN all the time with no data to support it. Just the fact that Apple products are objectively not expensive enough to convey any information about status should be enough to prevent it from being posted.
I employ people that earn $15 to $20 per hour with no benefits that use Apple products like iPhones, MacBook airs, and air pods.
I employ people that earn $15 to $20 per hour with no benefits that use Apple products like iPhones, MacBook airs, and air pods.
This is because you are upper middle class. Among the working class and teenage population, it is a status symbol.
We have our own in the upper middle class and we are similarly exploited. Luxury cars + a honorable cause is one that comes to mind.
Marketing can target insecurities but it doesn't need to be insecurity based. I just find that most egregious. Advertising "new, better, faster,tech" seems like the opposite end of this.
We have our own in the upper middle class and we are similarly exploited. Luxury cars + a honorable cause is one that comes to mind.
Marketing can target insecurities but it doesn't need to be insecurity based. I just find that most egregious. Advertising "new, better, faster,tech" seems like the opposite end of this.
The claim I am responding to is very strong:
> "Apple products are classified as Veblen products, because most often users choose them, guided by the big name of the brand and believing that the possession of this technology will increase their status in society."
As if people might not be choosing Apple products like iPhones because of their proven track record of lasting much longer and being more desirable for the qualities of the product in and of themselves.
When people buy a Patek Phillipe watch, that might have the claim of being bought with the intent to signal status. A Patek Philippe watch tells time no better than any $15 watch.
But the implication that Apple products are mainly bought due to vanity needs to be supported by data. They have a reputation of being more durable, lasting longer, having more consistent user interfaces, better battery life, real life support from Apple employees in Apple stores, integrated software, primarily non ad supported business model, less known for malware, etc.
If I were poorer, it would be kind of insulting to think I would not value any of that and I am paying $200 to $500 for an Apple product than the cheapest alternative product simply to signal status.
Edit: as an illustration, Toyotas usually cost more than some other brands, but I do not see anyone claiming people are buying Toyotas in order to status signal. Or a Leatherman tool versus a Harborfreight tool.
I understand that at the very poor end, not buying the cheapest anything could signal status, but that is very different than buying something to signal status, which is what Veblen goods are about.
> "Apple products are classified as Veblen products, because most often users choose them, guided by the big name of the brand and believing that the possession of this technology will increase their status in society."
As if people might not be choosing Apple products like iPhones because of their proven track record of lasting much longer and being more desirable for the qualities of the product in and of themselves.
When people buy a Patek Phillipe watch, that might have the claim of being bought with the intent to signal status. A Patek Philippe watch tells time no better than any $15 watch.
But the implication that Apple products are mainly bought due to vanity needs to be supported by data. They have a reputation of being more durable, lasting longer, having more consistent user interfaces, better battery life, real life support from Apple employees in Apple stores, integrated software, primarily non ad supported business model, less known for malware, etc.
If I were poorer, it would be kind of insulting to think I would not value any of that and I am paying $200 to $500 for an Apple product than the cheapest alternative product simply to signal status.
Edit: as an illustration, Toyotas usually cost more than some other brands, but I do not see anyone claiming people are buying Toyotas in order to status signal. Or a Leatherman tool versus a Harborfreight tool.
I understand that at the very poor end, not buying the cheapest anything could signal status, but that is very different than buying something to signal status, which is what Veblen goods are about.
I'm in upper middle class and switched away from an iPhone to an Android last year and felt like I dropped classes based on verbal reactions from my peers. I thought it was much more prominent as a status symbol in lower classes, but many of my peers also indirectly conveyed that my status had dropped. Some outright said it. I find it pretty bizarre and unfortunate, but now I'm back to getting the new iPhone because it's exhausting to be treated lesser based on a phone choice.
I find it bizarre that people talked to you about their perceived change in your status to you directly, much less simply due to a phone.
Only one person said it directly who I’m close with and is always candid. I also almost always received a short comment about having an Android when initially connecting with a woman both in real life and on dating apps.
The bigger ramifications were ones I noticed myself. I wasn’t included in group texts organizing things where I usually would have before. I was still invited to things. Just no longer part of the organization messages. It was very subtle things like that where you notice people are treating you slightly different than they used to. Nothing major or dealbreaking but enough to make you realize there’s something there if you’re observant.
It’s tough to explain but the circles I’m in are so used to iPhones, that deviating from normality causes people to perceive you as no longer part of the collective group.
The bigger ramifications were ones I noticed myself. I wasn’t included in group texts organizing things where I usually would have before. I was still invited to things. Just no longer part of the organization messages. It was very subtle things like that where you notice people are treating you slightly different than they used to. Nothing major or dealbreaking but enough to make you realize there’s something there if you’re observant.
It’s tough to explain but the circles I’m in are so used to iPhones, that deviating from normality causes people to perceive you as no longer part of the collective group.
That is unfortunate. I am mid 30s, and if someone did not have iMessage, we would simply switch to WhatsApp.
Although, I can see there being an issue if someone was not using iMessage or WhatsApp.
Although, I can see there being an issue if someone was not using iMessage or WhatsApp.
That's too bad bud. I make enough money that it's obvious that I just buy whatever I want.
The other way I think about Veblen goods is that when you're purchasing an e.g. Balenciaga shirt, you're paying for 2 things:
1. the shirt
2. you're giving money to Balenciaga to go out there and tell people how great owners of Balenciaga shirts are. You're paying them to do some marketing on your behalf, in a way.
1. the shirt
2. you're giving money to Balenciaga to go out there and tell people how great owners of Balenciaga shirts are. You're paying them to do some marketing on your behalf, in a way.
A logo’d shirt is a poor example of a Veblen good.
Per wiki
>A Veblen good would be something where the demand increases as the price increases.
Shirts with logos are actually priced lower than shirts with logos. They might signal that someone can ship at an outlet mall rather than Walmart, but not much more. All the high end clothing will not have conspicuous logos.
Per wiki
>A Veblen good would be something where the demand increases as the price increases.
Shirts with logos are actually priced lower than shirts with logos. They might signal that someone can ship at an outlet mall rather than Walmart, but not much more. All the high end clothing will not have conspicuous logos.
I think it heavily depends on the logo. Lots of luxury brands are very conspicuous with their logos. Louis Vuitton comes to mind but specifically with shirts:
https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/product/balenciaga-large-fit...
I wonder if there’s a dip with mid/high end products, but the “very high end” “designer” brands are very logo centric.
https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/product/balenciaga-large-fit...
I wonder if there’s a dip with mid/high end products, but the “very high end” “designer” brands are very logo centric.
“The key to success is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.”
― George Burns
― George Burns
Individualized insights and personal attention increases sales.
This is standard procedure in high-end fashion studios.
don't we know that since dale carnegie?
people like to feel important. Even more so if they are not.
so you are saying my startup wouldn't have failed if I had simply handwritten a note to my customers
and CPMs of snail mail can be less then PPC
https://mobile.twitter.com/aarondfrancis/status/143888821947...