Ask HN: I’m being bullied at work. What do I do?
64 comments
Apologize.
This sound counter-intuitive; but it work a lot of times.
The things is that most people fixate in that "the other" is wrong and "I'm right".
Probably is, but the other is thinking the same. If 2 persons fight, and one have the arm broken and the other have only a finger, you can' count that the one with the broken finger will be calm and rational and know is he that is hurting more. It have the broken finger, dammit, and you must pay!
This is one of the teachings of Jesus. You take a proactive attitude to diffuse a situation. If you are "more guilty" you do because you are, if your "are not more guilty" o worse, "totally innocent", you ALSO DO it because you have the moral high ground, and because is smart.
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I have be in situations like this, but worse. Even with actual death threats and display of weapons. Have never ever in a fight, and yet "win" all of it ;)
"Sorry, I think I have say something wrong, that was not my intention. I not feel good because this. I wanna to solve any misunderstanding that and that situation/words have caused. I appreciate the work here I like my coworkers very much, and think we can move forward. I appreciate your opinion on this. "
Or something like that. You get the idea.
Look, if the situation can be saved, a calm voice and be humble must work when the people in conflict are not that against you, and have enough decency.
If even acting like this not work, then you are more certain is better to get out.
P.D: Can be even better if you can bring another, neutral, person, and be very casual about this.
This sound counter-intuitive; but it work a lot of times.
The things is that most people fixate in that "the other" is wrong and "I'm right".
Probably is, but the other is thinking the same. If 2 persons fight, and one have the arm broken and the other have only a finger, you can' count that the one with the broken finger will be calm and rational and know is he that is hurting more. It have the broken finger, dammit, and you must pay!
This is one of the teachings of Jesus. You take a proactive attitude to diffuse a situation. If you are "more guilty" you do because you are, if your "are not more guilty" o worse, "totally innocent", you ALSO DO it because you have the moral high ground, and because is smart.
---
I have be in situations like this, but worse. Even with actual death threats and display of weapons. Have never ever in a fight, and yet "win" all of it ;)
"Sorry, I think I have say something wrong, that was not my intention. I not feel good because this. I wanna to solve any misunderstanding that and that situation/words have caused. I appreciate the work here I like my coworkers very much, and think we can move forward. I appreciate your opinion on this. "
Or something like that. You get the idea.
Look, if the situation can be saved, a calm voice and be humble must work when the people in conflict are not that against you, and have enough decency.
If even acting like this not work, then you are more certain is better to get out.
P.D: Can be even better if you can bring another, neutral, person, and be very casual about this.
I agree. What some people don't understand is that conflict resolution has nothing to do with being right. In fact because of human obstinacy, often times a dichotomy of either being in the right, or resolving the conflict are the only choices present. If you wan't the problem to go away, you have to be the bigger person as much as that sucks. Remember bullies are mainly seeking a reaction but not a conciliatory one, it ruins the effect they were after.
Here's a counter-argument, just in case you need it. Of course I have no idea what the actual situation is.
It was hard to find examples of things I'd consider bullying in your post. The only thing seemed to be being screamed at once, which I agree is unacceptable.
Everything else seemed explainable as you having had an early disagreement with someone senior to you that led them to initially question your competence, and perhaps assume you are arrogant; they're continuing to do that, perhaps also to people senior than both of you.
(You also mention something about how you can't be sexist because you're a feminist, which seems a weird thing to say. In my experience everyone's somewhat sexist, and the people you need to worry about the most are people who think they're immune to it.)
Switching to another team, talking to your Agile Coach, or even talking to the PO about it constructively all seem like decent ideas to me. But you could consider the possibility that you simply made a bad impression and haven't taken any concrete steps to improve your relationship with them, giving them the impression that you're uninterested in doing so.
It was hard to find examples of things I'd consider bullying in your post. The only thing seemed to be being screamed at once, which I agree is unacceptable.
Everything else seemed explainable as you having had an early disagreement with someone senior to you that led them to initially question your competence, and perhaps assume you are arrogant; they're continuing to do that, perhaps also to people senior than both of you.
(You also mention something about how you can't be sexist because you're a feminist, which seems a weird thing to say. In my experience everyone's somewhat sexist, and the people you need to worry about the most are people who think they're immune to it.)
Switching to another team, talking to your Agile Coach, or even talking to the PO about it constructively all seem like decent ideas to me. But you could consider the possibility that you simply made a bad impression and haven't taken any concrete steps to improve your relationship with them, giving them the impression that you're uninterested in doing so.
> In my experience everyone's somewhat sexist, and the people you need to worry about the most are people who think they're immune to it.
Everyone has a bit of bias, that's not the same thing as being sexist.
I view sexism as an example of the extreme end of the spectrum of bias, not a label for the spectrum itself.
That is how society views the word too. An accusation of sexism is enough to terminate someone, refuse them career opportunities, and ostracize them from further friendship. Social acceptance is everything to many people, and making one a pariah would end their world.
Sexism isn't viewed as something 'everyone' has. It's viewed as something evil people have, and once branded with it, you will always be suspected of secretly holding it in your heart.
Everyone has a bit of bias, that's not the same thing as being sexist.
I view sexism as an example of the extreme end of the spectrum of bias, not a label for the spectrum itself.
That is how society views the word too. An accusation of sexism is enough to terminate someone, refuse them career opportunities, and ostracize them from further friendship. Social acceptance is everything to many people, and making one a pariah would end their world.
Sexism isn't viewed as something 'everyone' has. It's viewed as something evil people have, and once branded with it, you will always be suspected of secretly holding it in your heart.
It's not easy to defend yourself against sexist accusations, except that I have proof that I'm an activist and I've rallied for women rights and LGBT rights. Does it exclude the possibility of me being sexist? No, but it sure as hell keeps it at bay.
I do consider the possibility that I made a bad impression. In fact I'm well aware that was a mistake and I tried to fix it by making up for it in any way possible. But it has been 2 months now and it's not getting better so I'm running out of ideas but I appreciate your perspective and I agree with you in part.
Thanks for your input.
Edit: From your perspective how can I solve it?
I do consider the possibility that I made a bad impression. In fact I'm well aware that was a mistake and I tried to fix it by making up for it in any way possible. But it has been 2 months now and it's not getting better so I'm running out of ideas but I appreciate your perspective and I agree with you in part.
Thanks for your input.
Edit: From your perspective how can I solve it?
> It's not easy to defend yourself against sexist accusations, except that I have proof that I'm an activist and I've rallied for women rights and LGBT rights. Does it exclude the possibility of me being sexist? No, but it sure as hell keeps it at bay.
Perhaps this is a nitpicking aside, but let me be clear -- I think there is no correlation at all between attending a feminist rally and not exhibiting general workplace sexism. The idea that attending a rally would make you immune to issues like unconscious biases, sexist condescension, assumptions about technical competence, talking over someone, etc is as ridiculous as the idea that attending an NBA game is a demonstration of proof that you are a competent basketball player. The fact that you even brought it up puts your entire understanding of this situation into doubt for me.
> Edit: From your perspective how can I solve it?
It's tough. You say you're being bullied at work, and if you are, then you have few options -- by definition, bullying involves an unreasonable abuser and an innocent victim. Most of the plausible and good outcomes in this case involve you finding a way to no longer work with this person.
But if you'd instead posted "Ask HN: My coworker screamed at me and told someone else I'd been sexist. What do I do?" then I'd be able to give a very different answer, probably starting with:
(a) I would assume that I had, in fact, done something sexist and upsetting.
(b) I'd ask the person who was upset with me if I could meet privately with them, and I'd tell them that I felt terrible about it; that I badly want to heal the working relationship; that I respect their work and want to put effort into not upsetting them again; that I don't understand what I did but that I understand that this doesn't mean that I didn't do anything, and so on.
Perhaps this is a nitpicking aside, but let me be clear -- I think there is no correlation at all between attending a feminist rally and not exhibiting general workplace sexism. The idea that attending a rally would make you immune to issues like unconscious biases, sexist condescension, assumptions about technical competence, talking over someone, etc is as ridiculous as the idea that attending an NBA game is a demonstration of proof that you are a competent basketball player. The fact that you even brought it up puts your entire understanding of this situation into doubt for me.
> Edit: From your perspective how can I solve it?
It's tough. You say you're being bullied at work, and if you are, then you have few options -- by definition, bullying involves an unreasonable abuser and an innocent victim. Most of the plausible and good outcomes in this case involve you finding a way to no longer work with this person.
But if you'd instead posted "Ask HN: My coworker screamed at me and told someone else I'd been sexist. What do I do?" then I'd be able to give a very different answer, probably starting with:
(a) I would assume that I had, in fact, done something sexist and upsetting.
(b) I'd ask the person who was upset with me if I could meet privately with them, and I'd tell them that I felt terrible about it; that I badly want to heal the working relationship; that I respect their work and want to put effort into not upsetting them again; that I don't understand what I did but that I understand that this doesn't mean that I didn't do anything, and so on.
> No, but it sure as hell keeps it at bay.
I would avoid this attitude. Assume there are areas where you can improve in this dimension. The fact that you're being defensive on this point here with us is not a good signal. It makes me think that maybe you are being defensive at work as well.
The correct response to this is, "I'll keep that in mind and look for ways to improve." There is zero room for making statements about how good you are on this point or any other, except through action. There is no way talking up your own qualities can help.
> Edit: From your perspective how can I solve it?
Personally, I'd go the direct conversation route. Schedule a one-on-one, say, "I've gotten the impression that our relationship doesn't have the professional trust I would like it to. I'd like to understand what I can do better." Take radical steps to demonstrate good faith. Never complain, never defend.
I was actually in this situation lately, but on the other side of the table. I had a person under my leadership who had been disgruntled and unsatisfied, and I had to go to them and basically say, I'm sorry I've been a bad lead, but I want to repair this. We had a long conversation where I basically took responsibility for every bad thing that had happened, and pledged to improve. Since then, there's been a night and day improvement in our professional relationship.
If it were a peer, I might suggest something different, because bullying in this case might be a way for the peer to assert extra-organizational power over you. But this individual already has organizational power over you -- what you perceive as bullying is probably not about obtaining more power.
Or it could be a rare case where the other individual has some sort of sociopathic tendencies. In which case there is probably not much you can do. But nine times out of ten this is not the situation.
I would avoid this attitude. Assume there are areas where you can improve in this dimension. The fact that you're being defensive on this point here with us is not a good signal. It makes me think that maybe you are being defensive at work as well.
The correct response to this is, "I'll keep that in mind and look for ways to improve." There is zero room for making statements about how good you are on this point or any other, except through action. There is no way talking up your own qualities can help.
> Edit: From your perspective how can I solve it?
Personally, I'd go the direct conversation route. Schedule a one-on-one, say, "I've gotten the impression that our relationship doesn't have the professional trust I would like it to. I'd like to understand what I can do better." Take radical steps to demonstrate good faith. Never complain, never defend.
I was actually in this situation lately, but on the other side of the table. I had a person under my leadership who had been disgruntled and unsatisfied, and I had to go to them and basically say, I'm sorry I've been a bad lead, but I want to repair this. We had a long conversation where I basically took responsibility for every bad thing that had happened, and pledged to improve. Since then, there's been a night and day improvement in our professional relationship.
If it were a peer, I might suggest something different, because bullying in this case might be a way for the peer to assert extra-organizational power over you. But this individual already has organizational power over you -- what you perceive as bullying is probably not about obtaining more power.
Or it could be a rare case where the other individual has some sort of sociopathic tendencies. In which case there is probably not much you can do. But nine times out of ten this is not the situation.
> "I've gotten the impression that our relationship doesn't have the professional trust I would like it to. I'd like to understand what I can do better."
This! Use these words exactly! How she responds to this will show you what it's all about. Either she gives you concrete examples of what she thinks the problems are and how you two can solve them or she will continue as before. If it's the latter there's probably nothing that will make her change.
> Never complain, never defend.
And this! Even if you 100% in the right, complaining about person A to person B will have a significant chance of you losing face in the eyes of person B (exceptions: you either know person B extremely well (e.g. spouse) or person B has also experienced the faults of person A). Acting defensively will seem as if you're not willing to learn or see your own flaws.
This! Use these words exactly! How she responds to this will show you what it's all about. Either she gives you concrete examples of what she thinks the problems are and how you two can solve them or she will continue as before. If it's the latter there's probably nothing that will make her change.
> Never complain, never defend.
And this! Even if you 100% in the right, complaining about person A to person B will have a significant chance of you losing face in the eyes of person B (exceptions: you either know person B extremely well (e.g. spouse) or person B has also experienced the faults of person A). Acting defensively will seem as if you're not willing to learn or see your own flaws.
"It's not easy to defend yourself against sexist accusations, except that I have proof that I'm an activist and I've rallied for women rights and LGBT rights."
You do not need to show any 'credentials'. It doesn't matter what things you 'belong to'. You don't need to cower in defence such accusations or 'prove that you're not' something. If in all your self-awareness, you know you're not sexist, well then - you're surely not. The accusations are unfair and baseless.
More extreme: imagine someone accuses you of being a pedophile - you don't react by saying 'how much you love children and would never do such a thing'. Heyzeus! Just act with firm integrity and dismiss the accusation outright and make sure it's known that the accusations are unfair and baseless.
You do not need to show any 'credentials'. It doesn't matter what things you 'belong to'. You don't need to cower in defence such accusations or 'prove that you're not' something. If in all your self-awareness, you know you're not sexist, well then - you're surely not. The accusations are unfair and baseless.
More extreme: imagine someone accuses you of being a pedophile - you don't react by saying 'how much you love children and would never do such a thing'. Heyzeus! Just act with firm integrity and dismiss the accusation outright and make sure it's known that the accusations are unfair and baseless.
> If in all your self-awareness, you know you're not sexist, well then - you're surely not
At least not intentionally. You must still be aware that we all have subconscious biases which can sometimes make you act or say something that can be interpreted as sexist by another party. Maybe a female coworker feels that you are mansplaining things to her but not to your male coworkers?
At least not intentionally. You must still be aware that we all have subconscious biases which can sometimes make you act or say something that can be interpreted as sexist by another party. Maybe a female coworker feels that you are mansplaining things to her but not to your male coworkers?
I'll tell you what worked for me:
I walked over the bully and told them to their face that I did not appreciate the way they were talking to me. That I will not accept or tolerate being treated the way they were attempting to treat me. I then wrote an email to their manager with what happened, copied the conversation that was had in chat and explained that we are adults and that behavior was not acceptable. Their manager had a talk with them and it hasn't happened again.
I was/am prepared to forward my communication to HR if the time comes where they try to bully again.
I walked over the bully and told them to their face that I did not appreciate the way they were talking to me. That I will not accept or tolerate being treated the way they were attempting to treat me. I then wrote an email to their manager with what happened, copied the conversation that was had in chat and explained that we are adults and that behavior was not acceptable. Their manager had a talk with them and it hasn't happened again.
I was/am prepared to forward my communication to HR if the time comes where they try to bully again.
Do Not Apologize! That is a recipe for censure, failure, and a permanent record. It is also a way to guarantee the problem will only get worse. Your apology will be used as an admission of guilt, and she will use this against you.
Ignore the advice which others give here to approach her directly. That too is a recipe for disaster. She will use this "one-on-one" time to drum up additional charges against you. You cannot reconcile with her. There is nothing you can say to change her behavior.
You need to go on the offensive, hard and fast. Document everything. Go over her head. Do not back down. Do not let yourself be intimidated. Stay calm, cool, and collected, and then, when you have everything you need, file charges against her with management.
The goal here is to make her toxic behavior rebound back on her. Do not feel sorry for her. She can end this at any time by changing her behavior. Remember: she is her own worst enemy. You are not the problem. She is creating the environment. She should bear the consequences.
If at all possible, foster an "I don't care what you think about me" attitude when it comes to whatever garbage she invents about you. This is to insulate yourself from your own emotional reaction, which will only damage your case.
Remember: Your goal here is not to reconcile with her. Your goal here is to serve your company and their clients with your best work. She is standing in the way of doing that and is attempting to damage your career in the process.
Ignore the advice which others give here to approach her directly. That too is a recipe for disaster. She will use this "one-on-one" time to drum up additional charges against you. You cannot reconcile with her. There is nothing you can say to change her behavior.
You need to go on the offensive, hard and fast. Document everything. Go over her head. Do not back down. Do not let yourself be intimidated. Stay calm, cool, and collected, and then, when you have everything you need, file charges against her with management.
The goal here is to make her toxic behavior rebound back on her. Do not feel sorry for her. She can end this at any time by changing her behavior. Remember: she is her own worst enemy. You are not the problem. She is creating the environment. She should bear the consequences.
If at all possible, foster an "I don't care what you think about me" attitude when it comes to whatever garbage she invents about you. This is to insulate yourself from your own emotional reaction, which will only damage your case.
Remember: Your goal here is not to reconcile with her. Your goal here is to serve your company and their clients with your best work. She is standing in the way of doing that and is attempting to damage your career in the process.
Are you being sarcastic?
I only ask because this sounds like a great way to escalate the situation and get OP fired. (I don't care how bad she is, she has experience capital and OP does not. She is more valuable to them than he is, end of story.)
An underhanded "I'm going to get you" approach only labels you as a toxic employee. Perhaps she may already have that label with colleagues and within the industry and she is tolerated based on work output. I don't see how it is productive for OP to join that club, particularly with little to no counterbalance.
I'm not sure what type of experiences you have had in your career to conclude that your recommended approach is a good one, but launching a nuclear assault because someone shot a rifle your way is not a very effective solution unless your goal is to destroy everything, including yourself.
I only ask because this sounds like a great way to escalate the situation and get OP fired. (I don't care how bad she is, she has experience capital and OP does not. She is more valuable to them than he is, end of story.)
An underhanded "I'm going to get you" approach only labels you as a toxic employee. Perhaps she may already have that label with colleagues and within the industry and she is tolerated based on work output. I don't see how it is productive for OP to join that club, particularly with little to no counterbalance.
I'm not sure what type of experiences you have had in your career to conclude that your recommended approach is a good one, but launching a nuclear assault because someone shot a rifle your way is not a very effective solution unless your goal is to destroy everything, including yourself.
No, I am not being sarcastic. I am being a cold realist. This is the path to self-preservation.
I did not advocate an "I'm going to get you approach" in the least. I am advocating the opposite: that the OP distance himself from his own reactions, and take whatever steps are necessary to make her behavior rebound back on her. No tricks or traps. No revenge plotting. No righteous indignation. No character assassination. Cold and careful strategy. Recognize the threat. Stay in control. Collect your evidence. Act to mitigate it using the established means that exist to do so.
She invoked the nuclear option the moment she played the sexism card. This means she feels threatened by his work. Not by him, but by his work. There is no going back once this happens. Anyone who falsely makes or implies such a thing is a direct threat to your career and reputation. You have to treat it like a loaded gun is aimed at you. As I said, she can end this at any time by changing her behavior, which in this case means admitting that no sexism occurred and that she was the guilty party.
I did not advocate an "I'm going to get you approach" in the least. I am advocating the opposite: that the OP distance himself from his own reactions, and take whatever steps are necessary to make her behavior rebound back on her. No tricks or traps. No revenge plotting. No righteous indignation. No character assassination. Cold and careful strategy. Recognize the threat. Stay in control. Collect your evidence. Act to mitigate it using the established means that exist to do so.
She invoked the nuclear option the moment she played the sexism card. This means she feels threatened by his work. Not by him, but by his work. There is no going back once this happens. Anyone who falsely makes or implies such a thing is a direct threat to your career and reputation. You have to treat it like a loaded gun is aimed at you. As I said, she can end this at any time by changing her behavior, which in this case means admitting that no sexism occurred and that she was the guilty party.
Smile and wave. As the Brits say, keep calm and carry on.
Don't mix emotions with business. Apply for other jobs in Europe. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/23804747.jpg
My advisor told me once 'i think you should go somewhere where they respect and value your skills, care and help you advance your career. There are plenty of opportunities out there.'
Summary - work place environment needs to improve for you. You can't live under fear, that will be the biggest hindrance in your progress. You need to freely express your opinions without getting screamed at. Its important to get your ideas out, that is how you learn if youre thinking in right direction. I have been in similar situation, avoid companies with this sort of a culture. They just want you to do the hard work.
Summary - work place environment needs to improve for you. You can't live under fear, that will be the biggest hindrance in your progress. You need to freely express your opinions without getting screamed at. Its important to get your ideas out, that is how you learn if youre thinking in right direction. I have been in similar situation, avoid companies with this sort of a culture. They just want you to do the hard work.
Schedule a private 1-on-1, and tell her point blank, "I've noticed that you do <X/Y/Z> to me and it makes me uncomfortable. Why do you do <X/Y/Z> to me?"
Either she'll explain why she's a jerk, in which case you can ask her not to do that anymore, or she'll realize she'd been doing something she wasn't aware of and stop. If she feigns ignorance, then you switch from inquisitive to commanding: "Treating me like <X/Y/Z> is negatively impacting my ability to deliver work to the company/team. I need you to stop treating me like <X/Y/Z> in order to achieve our team's objectives. If you don't stop treating me like <X/Y/Z>, I will have to involve [her boss]." She may deny some or all of this, but it doesn't matter. You're not trying to argue, you're trying to make her aware so she can't feign ignorance to her superiors.
Make sure you record the conversation on your smartphone. I've gotten to the point where I record all of my time I spend in the office in order to protect me against claims of sexism because of how detrimental it can be to my career.
By structuring the conversation in terms of your work performance, you can help convince her, her superiors, and the court (if it comes to that) that she is in the wrong and that you're a victim. If you don't record it though, none of it matters.
Either she'll explain why she's a jerk, in which case you can ask her not to do that anymore, or she'll realize she'd been doing something she wasn't aware of and stop. If she feigns ignorance, then you switch from inquisitive to commanding: "Treating me like <X/Y/Z> is negatively impacting my ability to deliver work to the company/team. I need you to stop treating me like <X/Y/Z> in order to achieve our team's objectives. If you don't stop treating me like <X/Y/Z>, I will have to involve [her boss]." She may deny some or all of this, but it doesn't matter. You're not trying to argue, you're trying to make her aware so she can't feign ignorance to her superiors.
Make sure you record the conversation on your smartphone. I've gotten to the point where I record all of my time I spend in the office in order to protect me against claims of sexism because of how detrimental it can be to my career.
By structuring the conversation in terms of your work performance, you can help convince her, her superiors, and the court (if it comes to that) that she is in the wrong and that you're a victim. If you don't record it though, none of it matters.
"I've noticed that you do <X/Y/Z> to me and it makes me uncomfortable. Why do you do <X/Y/Z> to me?"
Uhhmm ... well, I'm not sure this is the best approach, in my opinion.
1)
By framing the discussion as 'why do you do this to me'? It makes the assumption that 'she possibly did something wrong' etc. etc.. It's just a shade accusatory, and I'll bet $100 this person will assume as much.
2)
"Either she'll explain why she's a jerk, in which case you can ask her not to do that anymore, or she'll realize she'd been doing something she wasn't aware of and stop."
There's no chance of the former, and a very small chance of the latter.
If you're going to have a 1-on-1, I think it should probably avoid the specifics of the past (because it will just be something to argue over) - and say something like:
"Hey, Mary Sue, it seems we got off on the wrong foot here, I'm pretty new, I don't know how things work, why don't you help me figure out how we can work together and get things done"
1) By being a somewhat apologetic without admitting any wrongdoing ...
2) By avoiding 'things in the past' to nitpick ...
3) By assuming some humility about 'being new' and therefore maybe not knowing everything ...
4) By not making any reference to her 'doing anything wrong' or 'being wrong' ...
5) By being 'forward looking' and 'trying figure out ways to get stuff done' ...
She'll likely give you a piece of her mind with respect to what she expects in terms of working together. How she handles that might help you decide wether to stay or leave.
Uhhmm ... well, I'm not sure this is the best approach, in my opinion.
1)
By framing the discussion as 'why do you do this to me'? It makes the assumption that 'she possibly did something wrong' etc. etc.. It's just a shade accusatory, and I'll bet $100 this person will assume as much.
2)
"Either she'll explain why she's a jerk, in which case you can ask her not to do that anymore, or she'll realize she'd been doing something she wasn't aware of and stop."
There's no chance of the former, and a very small chance of the latter.
If you're going to have a 1-on-1, I think it should probably avoid the specifics of the past (because it will just be something to argue over) - and say something like:
"Hey, Mary Sue, it seems we got off on the wrong foot here, I'm pretty new, I don't know how things work, why don't you help me figure out how we can work together and get things done"
1) By being a somewhat apologetic without admitting any wrongdoing ...
2) By avoiding 'things in the past' to nitpick ...
3) By assuming some humility about 'being new' and therefore maybe not knowing everything ...
4) By not making any reference to her 'doing anything wrong' or 'being wrong' ...
5) By being 'forward looking' and 'trying figure out ways to get stuff done' ...
She'll likely give you a piece of her mind with respect to what she expects in terms of working together. How she handles that might help you decide wether to stay or leave.
> I've gotten to the point where I record all of my time I spend in the office in order to protect me against claims of sexism because of how detrimental it can be to my career.
I don't know about your employer's policies. But my employer would definitely fire me if they found out I was doing this. I don't think this advice is generally applicable.
I don't know about your employer's policies. But my employer would definitely fire me if they found out I was doing this. I don't think this advice is generally applicable.
I'm sorry you have to deal with being harassed and find your self in an uncomfortable environment daily. I have dealt with this kind of behavior in the past working for several large companies, and as a quiet person that likes to keep to myself I have always had problems dealing with power dynamics. You have a few options.
1. Find a new Job then quit. This may sound like hard advice to take, but if you are in a position and you feel like the structure of the company creates an environment were a person being victimized has no recourse, do you really want to work there anyway? It's always hard to quit a job but finding a new job first will make it much easier, and it will be easier to find a new job now that you are currently employed and have experience. ( I've done this )
2. Find a new job and then talk to HR. If HR does not act to stop the harassment then you can threaten to quit. If you come under retaliation then you can quit. Be sure you have an actual job offer before you threaten to quit, employers will often taken you up on that threat.
3. Talk to the person in a personal way. Explain that you want to be friends and explain how their actions are negatively impacting you. I've found that many people play power dynamics games in an unconscious/impersonal way. They either don't know that they are doing anything to distress you or largely consider it "part of the game". In any case when rational people are faced with the consequences of their actions they often change their behavior.
Good luck and may God bless you.
1. Find a new Job then quit. This may sound like hard advice to take, but if you are in a position and you feel like the structure of the company creates an environment were a person being victimized has no recourse, do you really want to work there anyway? It's always hard to quit a job but finding a new job first will make it much easier, and it will be easier to find a new job now that you are currently employed and have experience. ( I've done this )
2. Find a new job and then talk to HR. If HR does not act to stop the harassment then you can threaten to quit. If you come under retaliation then you can quit. Be sure you have an actual job offer before you threaten to quit, employers will often taken you up on that threat.
3. Talk to the person in a personal way. Explain that you want to be friends and explain how their actions are negatively impacting you. I've found that many people play power dynamics games in an unconscious/impersonal way. They either don't know that they are doing anything to distress you or largely consider it "part of the game". In any case when rational people are faced with the consequences of their actions they often change their behavior.
Good luck and may God bless you.
As soon as this happens you should report it to HR, insure you reference any materials in the employee/contractor/company code of ethics, etc. There are more then likely laws that would also help resolve this issue too. So insure you report it to HR and call your city/state department of labor and ask away. They are paid to help you out just the same as the IRS or local state government will answer any tax questions you have if you are trying to run your own business.
> As soon as this happens you should report it to HR...
The H.R. Department Is NOT Where to Turn for Help With a Hostile Work Environment > https://toughnickel.com/business/Hostile-Work-Environment---...
The H.R. Department Is NOT Where to Turn for Help With a Hostile Work Environment > https://toughnickel.com/business/Hostile-Work-Environment---...
HR is not your friend. HR is the company's friend. HR will do whatever it thinks is best for the company, not what's best for you.
Typically, agressive people are those who can't admit defeat, agressivity being their last resort to "still win".
The trick is to maintain their illusion that they are in control.
So instead of saying: "It would be unwise to implement this feature because of X"
you could say: "I'm wondering if X could stop us from implementing this feature efficiently, what do you think?"
(what do you think = I am relegating control to you)
Stay clear of personal statements as much as possible but if it's unavoidable, think of "leaving them an open door"
Say your PO ate your lunch (for god knows what reason),
you would not say: "Why did you eat my lunch?",
you would say: "It might have been an accident but did you eat my lunch?"
(It might have been an accident = I'm giving you a ready-made excuse that you can use so that you can still feel in control about stuff)
It is important to have you "open door" at the begining of the statement for maximum effectiveness.
---
Business-wise though, the typical steps is
- try and fix it one on one (use the open door trick): "It might be just me but did you notice work tensions between us, if so how can we fix this..."
- if this fails, go to HR but don't talk badly about anyone, you need to use the "ask for advice" approach.
- if this fails, start sending your cv to other jobs
The trick is to maintain their illusion that they are in control.
So instead of saying: "It would be unwise to implement this feature because of X"
you could say: "I'm wondering if X could stop us from implementing this feature efficiently, what do you think?"
(what do you think = I am relegating control to you)
Stay clear of personal statements as much as possible but if it's unavoidable, think of "leaving them an open door"
Say your PO ate your lunch (for god knows what reason),
you would not say: "Why did you eat my lunch?",
you would say: "It might have been an accident but did you eat my lunch?"
(It might have been an accident = I'm giving you a ready-made excuse that you can use so that you can still feel in control about stuff)
It is important to have you "open door" at the begining of the statement for maximum effectiveness.
---
Business-wise though, the typical steps is
- try and fix it one on one (use the open door trick): "It might be just me but did you notice work tensions between us, if so how can we fix this..."
- if this fails, go to HR but don't talk badly about anyone, you need to use the "ask for advice" approach.
- if this fails, start sending your cv to other jobs
Let me tell you something. There are 2 choices in front of you:
1) Loose hope & leave the job - If you choose this option, your PO will come as a winner. After you leave, no one would care if it was your mistake or her but people would most probably forget the incidents and think positive about her. Most of the people will think you had some issues and you left the job. You might find another job but there is no guarantee that you will not find another PO or for that matter any collegue/manager with whom you will NOT have similar issues.
2) Continue in your current Job and commit yourself to improve the situation. Life is presenting with a unique opportunity to you where you can learn how to take control of situation when people disagree with you. IMO, you can learn something very unique out of this situation even if you happen to loose your job after 6 months. This will build a character in you in how to face tough situations. A career is a long journey where you will face situations where people disagree with you. Learning this early in life will help to understand and act better in situations like this. I would say don't worry if you will get a permanent offer from this employer and continue looking for other Job options. If you do find a good job offer then whether to choose that offer should be completely a rational decision based on career growth, salary, technology and not because you are having people issues at your current job. Changing a Job is a life decision and you should be the only one who should take this decision.
Now, there are certain things you should do to improve your current situation at job. By your question, I feel that you had a direct confrontation with your Product Owner. She might not had liked this direct confrontation and is not happy with you. Have a 1:1 discussion with her and understand what you are doing wrong that is making her upset. In the end you will come up as a much more stronger person than her.
1) Loose hope & leave the job - If you choose this option, your PO will come as a winner. After you leave, no one would care if it was your mistake or her but people would most probably forget the incidents and think positive about her. Most of the people will think you had some issues and you left the job. You might find another job but there is no guarantee that you will not find another PO or for that matter any collegue/manager with whom you will NOT have similar issues.
2) Continue in your current Job and commit yourself to improve the situation. Life is presenting with a unique opportunity to you where you can learn how to take control of situation when people disagree with you. IMO, you can learn something very unique out of this situation even if you happen to loose your job after 6 months. This will build a character in you in how to face tough situations. A career is a long journey where you will face situations where people disagree with you. Learning this early in life will help to understand and act better in situations like this. I would say don't worry if you will get a permanent offer from this employer and continue looking for other Job options. If you do find a good job offer then whether to choose that offer should be completely a rational decision based on career growth, salary, technology and not because you are having people issues at your current job. Changing a Job is a life decision and you should be the only one who should take this decision.
Now, there are certain things you should do to improve your current situation at job. By your question, I feel that you had a direct confrontation with your Product Owner. She might not had liked this direct confrontation and is not happy with you. Have a 1:1 discussion with her and understand what you are doing wrong that is making her upset. In the end you will come up as a much more stronger person than her.
Leaving is always an option.
Recognise that she is empowered by the organisation and you are not. Therefore, in your position, you will generally have to comply with what she wishes even if you feel it is wrong.
If you want to tough it out, I have a plan for you. Firstly, accept that your 'zone of influence' within the organisation is small. There are things that you can control and things that you can't control, and in your current situation there is not much you can control. Psychologically, what you can do is to choose not to be bothered by what you can't control. In other words, you can choose to abide by the maxim "Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you get."
Also, you say you are in fear. Remind yourself that it is no big deal if she is upset, if you need to leave the company it is ok. You have nothing to lose. Try to see the humour of her overreactions. Of course, do not try to provoke her, but do it out of prudence rather than fear.
Remember, although you do not have much control within the organisation, you do have control over finding another job if you decide to do that.
Another thing I would do is arrange a short meeting with your report where you concisely outline the issue and how it is challenging you. This can be very difficult to do without causing more harm to the situation but it will help you if you raise the issue early. Keep the meeting short, you do not want to take up your boss's time with drama.
There are two key points you should make in the meeting. One is that the situation is challenging for you. You can literally say "I am challenged by this situation." Framing the situation in this way emphasises that you see it as a problem for yourself, not for the organisation, not for your boss and not for your PO. The second key point is to briefly outline what you will do to address the challenge. Generally this will mean focusing on your programming duties, being polite to your PO and being careful not to be a cause of conflict or distraction. Raising these two points will show your boss that you are being proactive about performing well in your job and addressing the interpersonal challenges of the workplace.
In this meeting you do not want your boss to go away thinking he should take action, such as disciplinary action or getting HR involved. Trust me, this would never go well for you. Therefore you should be careful not to create the impression in your boss that you would like him to take any action, you can also explicitly state that you don't want him to take action.
The purpose is to simply raise the issue and show that you are taking it on and dealing with it constructively. It opens a dialog with your boss about it. If your boss is a good boss you should be able to talk to him about challenges you are facing and not be afraid of him judging you unfairly, this is fundamental to a healthy relationship with your boss. Beyond this, having opened the dialog may help you in the future. For example, if at the end of the six months there are certain complaints raised that you can trace back to badmouthing by your PO, you can confidently and politely point that out. If you had never raised the issue of bulling prior to that time then you will have no credibility at all. Further, if the bulling reaches a level that you can no longer tolerate, you can go into a meeting stating that you've decided you need to leave the company. If your work has been good up until that point and your boss knows you've being trying to do the right thing, he may be able to move you to another project within the company. At the very least he will understand what's gone on and your resignation will not seem abrupt. Keep in mind it is quite possible he has no power to move you to another project to keep you away from the PO.
Good luck. Trust your instincts. If working for four more months and not getting extended seems like a waste of time you need to make that calculation for yourself and do what's best for your career.
Recognise that she is empowered by the organisation and you are not. Therefore, in your position, you will generally have to comply with what she wishes even if you feel it is wrong.
If you want to tough it out, I have a plan for you. Firstly, accept that your 'zone of influence' within the organisation is small. There are things that you can control and things that you can't control, and in your current situation there is not much you can control. Psychologically, what you can do is to choose not to be bothered by what you can't control. In other words, you can choose to abide by the maxim "Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you get."
Also, you say you are in fear. Remind yourself that it is no big deal if she is upset, if you need to leave the company it is ok. You have nothing to lose. Try to see the humour of her overreactions. Of course, do not try to provoke her, but do it out of prudence rather than fear.
Remember, although you do not have much control within the organisation, you do have control over finding another job if you decide to do that.
Another thing I would do is arrange a short meeting with your report where you concisely outline the issue and how it is challenging you. This can be very difficult to do without causing more harm to the situation but it will help you if you raise the issue early. Keep the meeting short, you do not want to take up your boss's time with drama.
There are two key points you should make in the meeting. One is that the situation is challenging for you. You can literally say "I am challenged by this situation." Framing the situation in this way emphasises that you see it as a problem for yourself, not for the organisation, not for your boss and not for your PO. The second key point is to briefly outline what you will do to address the challenge. Generally this will mean focusing on your programming duties, being polite to your PO and being careful not to be a cause of conflict or distraction. Raising these two points will show your boss that you are being proactive about performing well in your job and addressing the interpersonal challenges of the workplace.
In this meeting you do not want your boss to go away thinking he should take action, such as disciplinary action or getting HR involved. Trust me, this would never go well for you. Therefore you should be careful not to create the impression in your boss that you would like him to take any action, you can also explicitly state that you don't want him to take action.
The purpose is to simply raise the issue and show that you are taking it on and dealing with it constructively. It opens a dialog with your boss about it. If your boss is a good boss you should be able to talk to him about challenges you are facing and not be afraid of him judging you unfairly, this is fundamental to a healthy relationship with your boss. Beyond this, having opened the dialog may help you in the future. For example, if at the end of the six months there are certain complaints raised that you can trace back to badmouthing by your PO, you can confidently and politely point that out. If you had never raised the issue of bulling prior to that time then you will have no credibility at all. Further, if the bulling reaches a level that you can no longer tolerate, you can go into a meeting stating that you've decided you need to leave the company. If your work has been good up until that point and your boss knows you've being trying to do the right thing, he may be able to move you to another project within the company. At the very least he will understand what's gone on and your resignation will not seem abrupt. Keep in mind it is quite possible he has no power to move you to another project to keep you away from the PO.
Good luck. Trust your instincts. If working for four more months and not getting extended seems like a waste of time you need to make that calculation for yourself and do what's best for your career.
Thank you. You comment was very valuable and validates most of my own thoughts about how to handle it from now onwards.
This should be at the top
Document specific instances of the bullying and go to HR with it. HR is there to protect the company legally and if you present them with this they should have concerns over her potential to cause a lawsuit
First, I would ask an impartial third party if you're right or being over sensitive. Not that I'm suggestion you are... you just want that sanity check before you move forward.
I would not be afraid. I would have a direct, civil (but still with a "I'm not fucking around here" tone) and tell them you don't appreciate it. Have a list of examples, ideally with dates, you can point to.
If at the end of that conversation you feel things are not going to improve, I would immediately start A) looking for employment elsewhere and B) getting materials together to burn her. Will she get fired? From your story, probably not. Can you make her life and those above her painful for a while? Yes, and you should. Set that fire on your way out the door. From my stance, everyone impacted will deserve what's coming even if it's just some extra stress.
You'll be doing nothing wrong. It's a standard grievance that, at least in the states, is potentially legally actionable. Even if a company has the money and lawyers to deal with EO complaints and alike, they do not want to deal with that! And, again in the US, they put themselves in another potentially actionable place by communicating with potential future employers.
As long as your complaints are valid, what do you have to worry about? Just tell prospective employers that you gave the position 6 months but wasn't happy there and are looking for opportunities to continue learning.
I would not be afraid. I would have a direct, civil (but still with a "I'm not fucking around here" tone) and tell them you don't appreciate it. Have a list of examples, ideally with dates, you can point to.
If at the end of that conversation you feel things are not going to improve, I would immediately start A) looking for employment elsewhere and B) getting materials together to burn her. Will she get fired? From your story, probably not. Can you make her life and those above her painful for a while? Yes, and you should. Set that fire on your way out the door. From my stance, everyone impacted will deserve what's coming even if it's just some extra stress.
You'll be doing nothing wrong. It's a standard grievance that, at least in the states, is potentially legally actionable. Even if a company has the money and lawyers to deal with EO complaints and alike, they do not want to deal with that! And, again in the US, they put themselves in another potentially actionable place by communicating with potential future employers.
As long as your complaints are valid, what do you have to worry about? Just tell prospective employers that you gave the position 6 months but wasn't happy there and are looking for opportunities to continue learning.
In short, I'm suggesting let them think you are considering legal action.
It's surely not worth the expense (money, time, energy) but at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you made a number of people scramble and she will now have a scrutinizing eye on her.
This job is just a stepping stone to somewhere better.
It's surely not worth the expense (money, time, energy) but at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you made a number of people scramble and she will now have a scrutinizing eye on her.
This job is just a stepping stone to somewhere better.
What I didn't do in your situation - should have done - was to stick up for myself. Now, "sticking up" can take several forms, and the trick is to do it appropriately.
If you're too gentle, the other party might not understand that you have concerns, might not respect them as important, or might be able to pretend not to know about them.
If you're too emphatic, you risk exceeding the bounds of professionalism yourself.
Do stand up for yourself. Don't bully her.
If you're too gentle, the other party might not understand that you have concerns, might not respect them as important, or might be able to pretend not to know about them.
If you're too emphatic, you risk exceeding the bounds of professionalism yourself.
Do stand up for yourself. Don't bully her.
If you really, truly think you are being bullied, then perhaps you should to go HR and report it. Since that seems to not have crossed your mind, I have to wonder why? And it makes me suspect that it isn't as simple as she is merely a meanie who is mistreating you and you have done nothing wrong.
And that brings me to this:
You don't necessarily need to apologize to her, but you should make every effort to show your respects to this person. Even men who mean well and are trying hard to not be sexist often fail to genuinely treat female colleagues with the same degree of professional respect they treat their male colleagues. So, assume you fell short somehow and try to rise to the occasion and get it right this time. Quit blaming her, accusing her, acting like it is all her fault, etc. Be an exemplary professional and expect to earn her trust and her respect.
Best. It sucks to have workplace friction, no matter the reason.
And that brings me to this:
You don't necessarily need to apologize to her, but you should make every effort to show your respects to this person. Even men who mean well and are trying hard to not be sexist often fail to genuinely treat female colleagues with the same degree of professional respect they treat their male colleagues. So, assume you fell short somehow and try to rise to the occasion and get it right this time. Quit blaming her, accusing her, acting like it is all her fault, etc. Be an exemplary professional and expect to earn her trust and her respect.
Best. It sucks to have workplace friction, no matter the reason.
You asked what to do. You seem like an intelligent person early in their career.
I want to tell you a quick, true story. In my high school Geography class (or Social Studies, or something), our teacher told us that the USA was the 2nd largest land mass country and my friend knew USA was 3rd and Canada was 2nd.
Sure enough, we looked it up in the new almanac (This as back before Bing was a thing) and Canada has annexed some land and we proved the teacher wrong.
We went to the history teacher and showed him the facts. He said he didn't care, he'd mark us wrong if we didn't answer the question like he taught us.
We went to the guidance counselor for "guidance." He recommended we write down what the teacher said to get a better grade and avoid conflict.
So, my friend and I, we wrote down Canada for the 2nd largest country, and we got it marked wrong.
And we dropped it after that.
Pretty stupid story huh? Doesn't matter now.
Whatever you argued with this Product Owner about, you need to go and apologize to her, and tell her you're sorry you weren't supportive, and that you want to help make her product great, and can you wipe the slate clean.
If you can't do that, quit and go work somewhere else.
This is not a place that needs to adapt to you and your opinions. You either help the company and the organization, or they get rid of you.
I mean this with love, and with gentle guidance: You are not a snowflake. Maybe they're sexist bigots, or maybe you're just a jerk.
I don't know.
But if they don't like you, you won't work there long. It doesn't matter how good your code is.
So find a way to become liked, or go work somewhere else. And when you get there, don't attract conflict or disagree rudely. Find a way to be liked and make your perception be one of a helpful friendly approachable person.
I want to tell you a quick, true story. In my high school Geography class (or Social Studies, or something), our teacher told us that the USA was the 2nd largest land mass country and my friend knew USA was 3rd and Canada was 2nd.
Sure enough, we looked it up in the new almanac (This as back before Bing was a thing) and Canada has annexed some land and we proved the teacher wrong.
We went to the history teacher and showed him the facts. He said he didn't care, he'd mark us wrong if we didn't answer the question like he taught us.
We went to the guidance counselor for "guidance." He recommended we write down what the teacher said to get a better grade and avoid conflict.
So, my friend and I, we wrote down Canada for the 2nd largest country, and we got it marked wrong.
And we dropped it after that.
Pretty stupid story huh? Doesn't matter now.
Whatever you argued with this Product Owner about, you need to go and apologize to her, and tell her you're sorry you weren't supportive, and that you want to help make her product great, and can you wipe the slate clean.
If you can't do that, quit and go work somewhere else.
This is not a place that needs to adapt to you and your opinions. You either help the company and the organization, or they get rid of you.
I mean this with love, and with gentle guidance: You are not a snowflake. Maybe they're sexist bigots, or maybe you're just a jerk.
I don't know.
But if they don't like you, you won't work there long. It doesn't matter how good your code is.
So find a way to become liked, or go work somewhere else. And when you get there, don't attract conflict or disagree rudely. Find a way to be liked and make your perception be one of a helpful friendly approachable person.
Sit down and communicate with her about the incident and tell her your intention now is to improve your relationship for the benefit of the team. Easy to say, hard to do but that's the key here. It will put you in the right position and no one can argue if you maintain this position.
Look for another job, be as cooly professional as possible in the meantime and DON'T TAKE THE BAIT.
Have you tried talking to her? Explaining the situation from your perspective, and just trying to let her know that you want to clear the air with her?
I think opening up to her about your worries and feelings can help you both move forward and make your work environment more friendly.
I think opening up to her about your worries and feelings can help you both move forward and make your work environment more friendly.
And don't be defensive about wrong accusations thrown at you. Believe the your coworkers can see from the side how you behave around and treat other women.
If the actual work is going well, you can try working under someone else, in a different department, etc. Of course, no one should be treated like this in the workplace. However, it happens because the workplace can really suck.
I thought of it but I can't. I'm a very specific type of developer and our team is the only one where the role exists.
"On my first week, me and the PO had a disagreement during a Scrum Grooming. It wasn’t a big deal for me but it must have been a big deal for her."
Can you elaborate on this? What was the disagreement?
Can you elaborate on this? What was the disagreement?
I would rather not make it explicit since it would provide enough information for any colleagues of mine reading HN to connect the dots and be 100% sure who I am.
I was pressured to do something during that meeting, I refused with the argument that it wouldn't benefit any of us and I explained why. The person kept asking. I kept refusing. It was uncomfortable.
I know I've handled that particular situation in a bad way. I could just have done it even if it meant trouble in the future but I took a stance out of professionalism. It was a mistake, no doubt.
I was pressured to do something during that meeting, I refused with the argument that it wouldn't benefit any of us and I explained why. The person kept asking. I kept refusing. It was uncomfortable.
I know I've handled that particular situation in a bad way. I could just have done it even if it meant trouble in the future but I took a stance out of professionalism. It was a mistake, no doubt.
>I refused with the argument that it wouldn't benefit any of us and I explained why.
That's a bit of a lesson learned in terms of "Things not to do in your first week".
Aside from criminal activity, I can't think of any situation where you were in a position to understand things better than the person asking you to do the task, and even if you where, where it would be a good idea to make such an immediate disagreement vocal and public.
You should probably test the mileage of making an apology for trying to assert yourself over a senior person (regardless of whether or not you are in fact correct) in your first week before you do anything, really. I have a funny feeling that it might go further than you think here.
That's a bit of a lesson learned in terms of "Things not to do in your first week".
Aside from criminal activity, I can't think of any situation where you were in a position to understand things better than the person asking you to do the task, and even if you where, where it would be a good idea to make such an immediate disagreement vocal and public.
You should probably test the mileage of making an apology for trying to assert yourself over a senior person (regardless of whether or not you are in fact correct) in your first week before you do anything, really. I have a funny feeling that it might go further than you think here.
> I know I've handled that particular situation in a bad way.
This is a key realization.
Assuming you really want to stay at the company, you should speak directly to the PO if you can keep from being defensive/angry/frustrated.
To be specific, first talk to your direct supervisor/boss and explain that you would like to improve your relationship with the PO. You have to mean this, of course, but tell your supervisor that your only goal in talking to the PO is to make the relationship better and so ask your sup if it's ok that you chat with her and ask for any guidance on how to do that effectively (this is less about getting advice from the sup and more of a check in since s/he is responsible for you).
Assuming your supervisor buys into you chatting with her, then set up a time to chat with the PO. Specifically address where you think things went wrong, why they went wrong and propose how you think it can be better (use the argument you had, your role in it and how you should've handled it differently as an example of how you'll interact differently in the future). And then ask her how you can make it better. It might not be fair that the burden is all on you in this situation, but based on what you're saying about the PO's standing in the company it sounds like the burden is on you.
You absolutely can salvage this relationship assuming the PO is a reasonable person, but the key is the burden is on you to fix it. Talking to the PO won't magically make her a different person, but great working relationships can be founded on once-toxic situations. If the risk in talking to her is too great, listen to the many people who are saying stay quiet, do great work and find another gig.
This is a key realization.
Assuming you really want to stay at the company, you should speak directly to the PO if you can keep from being defensive/angry/frustrated.
To be specific, first talk to your direct supervisor/boss and explain that you would like to improve your relationship with the PO. You have to mean this, of course, but tell your supervisor that your only goal in talking to the PO is to make the relationship better and so ask your sup if it's ok that you chat with her and ask for any guidance on how to do that effectively (this is less about getting advice from the sup and more of a check in since s/he is responsible for you).
Assuming your supervisor buys into you chatting with her, then set up a time to chat with the PO. Specifically address where you think things went wrong, why they went wrong and propose how you think it can be better (use the argument you had, your role in it and how you should've handled it differently as an example of how you'll interact differently in the future). And then ask her how you can make it better. It might not be fair that the burden is all on you in this situation, but based on what you're saying about the PO's standing in the company it sounds like the burden is on you.
You absolutely can salvage this relationship assuming the PO is a reasonable person, but the key is the burden is on you to fix it. Talking to the PO won't magically make her a different person, but great working relationships can be founded on once-toxic situations. If the risk in talking to her is too great, listen to the many people who are saying stay quiet, do great work and find another gig.
Yes, that was a mistake.
Short of unethical business practices, a new contract employee really doesn't have organizational standing to say "no" to anything.
If you're a consultant and they're paying you for your breadth of experience, you can certainly advise a different path. And you can make a stay/go decision based on the organization's choice.
But as a contract employee, or any new employee, you have much less invested in the organization than the people you work with do. You are reasonably expected to defer to their judgement in organizational matters.
Over time that might change, but it doesn't always. In some companies, contractors are always second class citizens.
It sounds to me like your PO has specific expectations, and you flipped the "loyal and cooperative" bit in the wrong direction. She might be overreacting, or perceiving it as a challenge due to gender differences. It doesn't matter, even if you are ultimately proven correct, you need to be someone she can work with and trust, and right now you are not.
An apology might work. In my experience, nothing else will.
Short of unethical business practices, a new contract employee really doesn't have organizational standing to say "no" to anything.
If you're a consultant and they're paying you for your breadth of experience, you can certainly advise a different path. And you can make a stay/go decision based on the organization's choice.
But as a contract employee, or any new employee, you have much less invested in the organization than the people you work with do. You are reasonably expected to defer to their judgement in organizational matters.
Over time that might change, but it doesn't always. In some companies, contractors are always second class citizens.
It sounds to me like your PO has specific expectations, and you flipped the "loyal and cooperative" bit in the wrong direction. She might be overreacting, or perceiving it as a challenge due to gender differences. It doesn't matter, even if you are ultimately proven correct, you need to be someone she can work with and trust, and right now you are not.
An apology might work. In my experience, nothing else will.
I was in a similar position once.
What I did was kept my head down, performed the work without any personal, emotional investment and started looking for a new job. It took several months but it worked out for the better for me. I was so happy when it was time to submit my two weeks notice. I took three hours to craft my notice email. If you're good at what you do and your skill set is in demand, this may work for you.
Good luck.
What I did was kept my head down, performed the work without any personal, emotional investment and started looking for a new job. It took several months but it worked out for the better for me. I was so happy when it was time to submit my two weeks notice. I took three hours to craft my notice email. If you're good at what you do and your skill set is in demand, this may work for you.
Good luck.
Have you tried to sit down and have an open conversation with this person? Sometimes doing this can really help diffuse tension.
This is not what you want to hear, and probably not the correct answer. But the pragmatic answer is to leave. Whatever happens is going to come at significant human capital to you, unfortunately, and unfairly, even if you 'win'. Suck it up, till you can get out of there.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
I'm dismayed to see most of the advice given to you by HN is bad. I am in a very similar situation, and it has been ongoing for years. I have also been bullied for some substantial parts of my life, so I understand the power dynamic very well.
In my recent experience, there is a playbook that you should use. This playbook is designed to be used in a one-on-one setting, between the bully and the person defending herself. I consider it fairly literal; you should memorize this sequence, rehearse it, and play it out as close as possible to how you rehearse. It is also intended to be used without any emotion; the goal is to be as matter-of-fact as humanly possible. It goes like this:
1. Point out a very specific problem behavior (screaming at you, some other event). Be as specific as possible, and use times/dates if you know them. There should be zero ambiguity about this, and the bully should never have leeway to disclaim the event. 2. Explain how it made you feel (angry, demotivated, alienated, etc.) 3. Say "when you did #1, the message I received was (.....) Was that the intended message?". A common example from my own experience is "I feel like I'm perceived as incompetent, and not any value to the team." 4. Regardless of the answer to #3, specifically say the words "In the future, don't do that again." Don't use the words "request" or "would like" in this response. 5. Explain the consequences of breaking directive #4. Something like "If this happens again, I will report the incident to HR (or your manager)."
This recipe has corrected nearly every incident of harassment and bullying I have encountered (well, at least as an adult). It won't fix the underlying issues; someone might still hate your guts, be jealous of you, or use you as a scapegoat. Those are deeper issues that this kind of recipe can't address. Nonetheless, this script directly addresses the problematic behavior, and it opens the door to confronting some deeper problems once the bully realizes that their bullying is visible and unaccepted. Strange as it sounds, most bullies think that their behavior is invisible to all but the victim. Exposing the bully to others can shift the power balance substantially.
The other thing I recommend is to keep a work diary. You don't need to write in it every day (although, in a problem workplace, you may end up with >1 entries a day). In this diary, I encourage you to record events that took place, how you feel about them, and any technical consequences of that event. I have noticed that bullying tends to produce technical changes in team function which hurts the product and hurts the operational efficiency of the group. If these kinds of disputes ever escalate to HR, which sounds very likely in your case, you will need this diary to establish a pattern of behavior and demand resolution. It will become your most valuable tool to improve your situation. It also serves as a somewhat impartial record of what happened. You may decide that, after reviewing X months of work diary, these issues are not that serious, and your emotional reaction is dominating how you feel. In my own case, I expected this to be true (I didn't trust myself enough), but it became obvious after a 1.5-year diary review that the problem wasn't me. :)
Good luck.
In my recent experience, there is a playbook that you should use. This playbook is designed to be used in a one-on-one setting, between the bully and the person defending herself. I consider it fairly literal; you should memorize this sequence, rehearse it, and play it out as close as possible to how you rehearse. It is also intended to be used without any emotion; the goal is to be as matter-of-fact as humanly possible. It goes like this:
1. Point out a very specific problem behavior (screaming at you, some other event). Be as specific as possible, and use times/dates if you know them. There should be zero ambiguity about this, and the bully should never have leeway to disclaim the event. 2. Explain how it made you feel (angry, demotivated, alienated, etc.) 3. Say "when you did #1, the message I received was (.....) Was that the intended message?". A common example from my own experience is "I feel like I'm perceived as incompetent, and not any value to the team." 4. Regardless of the answer to #3, specifically say the words "In the future, don't do that again." Don't use the words "request" or "would like" in this response. 5. Explain the consequences of breaking directive #4. Something like "If this happens again, I will report the incident to HR (or your manager)."
This recipe has corrected nearly every incident of harassment and bullying I have encountered (well, at least as an adult). It won't fix the underlying issues; someone might still hate your guts, be jealous of you, or use you as a scapegoat. Those are deeper issues that this kind of recipe can't address. Nonetheless, this script directly addresses the problematic behavior, and it opens the door to confronting some deeper problems once the bully realizes that their bullying is visible and unaccepted. Strange as it sounds, most bullies think that their behavior is invisible to all but the victim. Exposing the bully to others can shift the power balance substantially.
The other thing I recommend is to keep a work diary. You don't need to write in it every day (although, in a problem workplace, you may end up with >1 entries a day). In this diary, I encourage you to record events that took place, how you feel about them, and any technical consequences of that event. I have noticed that bullying tends to produce technical changes in team function which hurts the product and hurts the operational efficiency of the group. If these kinds of disputes ever escalate to HR, which sounds very likely in your case, you will need this diary to establish a pattern of behavior and demand resolution. It will become your most valuable tool to improve your situation. It also serves as a somewhat impartial record of what happened. You may decide that, after reviewing X months of work diary, these issues are not that serious, and your emotional reaction is dominating how you feel. In my own case, I expected this to be true (I didn't trust myself enough), but it became obvious after a 1.5-year diary review that the problem wasn't me. :)
Good luck.
Not to belittle your feelings in this situation, but nothing here is what I would describe as "bullying".
A person not being nice to you, or being an ass in general, is not bullying. I don't think you'll get a positive outcome here if you frame this situation as being 'bullied' so I'd suggest using a different approach.
What I do see (and of course, it is a real problem) is that perhaps you and the PO seem to have a personality conflict. This is obviously an issue because you clearly don't want it to exist and of course are in a vulnerable position being so new to the company.
The first thing you need to do, regardless of your fear, is to sit down and talk with her. You need to explain that you clearly started off on the wrong foot, and ask her directly if there is anything you can do to change things. Her position is one of the following: She doesn't realize or intend to have this affect on you; she thinks you are incompetent or; she is just an ass or dislikes you for some irrelevant reason. By talking to her directly, you have a good chance of solving this problem if her position is one of the first two. (You don't have to like what she offers, but the idea is to assign motive here.)
If something constructive comes out of that, pursue it. If she is just an ass, or if you try something for a while and you continue to have issues, then you can talk to your Coach. I wouldn't talk to HR without first talking to your direct supervisor though. As your manager they deserve the respect of being allowed to solve this issue first. At that point, you also have your conversation and any remedial steps to refer to in that conversation as well.
If that doesn't work, you should look for a new position. You can tell HR the issue on the exit interview if you want. To be honest, if your manager can't address this issue to your satisfaction, HR won't either.
Finally: If you can't sit and have a conversation with your PO directly in which you are able to articulate your position for whatever reason, you should probably just start looking for a new job regardless. Communication is essential to your success at work. If you can't communicate, whether it is "your fault" or "her fault", you won't be successful. May as well cut to the chase. If this is the case though, you need to be clear and honest with yourself though about why you are coming to this conclusion. There is more than one person out there that is going to be hard to work with... at some point you need to be able to address these types of conflicts in a way that is constructive and that works for you beyond simply removing yourself from the situation entirely.
I wish you the best of luck. These things are never fun, but they are inevitable given human nature.
A person not being nice to you, or being an ass in general, is not bullying. I don't think you'll get a positive outcome here if you frame this situation as being 'bullied' so I'd suggest using a different approach.
What I do see (and of course, it is a real problem) is that perhaps you and the PO seem to have a personality conflict. This is obviously an issue because you clearly don't want it to exist and of course are in a vulnerable position being so new to the company.
The first thing you need to do, regardless of your fear, is to sit down and talk with her. You need to explain that you clearly started off on the wrong foot, and ask her directly if there is anything you can do to change things. Her position is one of the following: She doesn't realize or intend to have this affect on you; she thinks you are incompetent or; she is just an ass or dislikes you for some irrelevant reason. By talking to her directly, you have a good chance of solving this problem if her position is one of the first two. (You don't have to like what she offers, but the idea is to assign motive here.)
If something constructive comes out of that, pursue it. If she is just an ass, or if you try something for a while and you continue to have issues, then you can talk to your Coach. I wouldn't talk to HR without first talking to your direct supervisor though. As your manager they deserve the respect of being allowed to solve this issue first. At that point, you also have your conversation and any remedial steps to refer to in that conversation as well.
If that doesn't work, you should look for a new position. You can tell HR the issue on the exit interview if you want. To be honest, if your manager can't address this issue to your satisfaction, HR won't either.
Finally: If you can't sit and have a conversation with your PO directly in which you are able to articulate your position for whatever reason, you should probably just start looking for a new job regardless. Communication is essential to your success at work. If you can't communicate, whether it is "your fault" or "her fault", you won't be successful. May as well cut to the chase. If this is the case though, you need to be clear and honest with yourself though about why you are coming to this conclusion. There is more than one person out there that is going to be hard to work with... at some point you need to be able to address these types of conflicts in a way that is constructive and that works for you beyond simply removing yourself from the situation entirely.
I wish you the best of luck. These things are never fun, but they are inevitable given human nature.
Obviously, this may not be a possible option for you ... and I loathe to say this, but you should probably just leave.
There's no way to deal with the issue without making it 'you vs. her'. Even if they don't like her (and know she's a bitch), maybe she's too important to them at this point ... so you're going to be perceived as 'the problem'.
If she is as bad as you say she is, surely other people will take note of that, you may want to hand in your resignation and inform upper management of the reasons why. And then move on.
I wish you well.
There's no way to deal with the issue without making it 'you vs. her'. Even if they don't like her (and know she's a bitch), maybe she's too important to them at this point ... so you're going to be perceived as 'the problem'.
If she is as bad as you say she is, surely other people will take note of that, you may want to hand in your resignation and inform upper management of the reasons why. And then move on.
I wish you well.
I would add one thing: if you keep going on like this, you will become her victim. It will affect you.
Right now - you're new - you're kind of outside the game. You're almost an 'observer'.
But once you are trapped in that - you'll either have to assume the position of 'trained animal' - or you'll face serious wrath.
To appease her at the beginning, you might feign meekness - but this will consume your identity. It will start to affect your view of yourself, your skills, your role in life.
It's not fair, but that's power. If you feel that she is definitely valued by the company and can't/won't replace here, then there's not much chance you can win. It's going to be 'political' not 'judicious'. A startup that needs to make milestones is going to chose whoever is more valuable to them at that point and that's it.
I was in this situation once, the best thing I ever did was walk away, I was foolish to hang on for even the several weeks I did.
Anyhow, I don't want to seem so authoritative, obviously, it's a personal choice, but if you truly feel this person is bad and vindictive ... it could very well consume you. Surely you're a smart guy, find a place that works for you.
Right now - you're new - you're kind of outside the game. You're almost an 'observer'.
But once you are trapped in that - you'll either have to assume the position of 'trained animal' - or you'll face serious wrath.
To appease her at the beginning, you might feign meekness - but this will consume your identity. It will start to affect your view of yourself, your skills, your role in life.
It's not fair, but that's power. If you feel that she is definitely valued by the company and can't/won't replace here, then there's not much chance you can win. It's going to be 'political' not 'judicious'. A startup that needs to make milestones is going to chose whoever is more valuable to them at that point and that's it.
I was in this situation once, the best thing I ever did was walk away, I was foolish to hang on for even the several weeks I did.
Anyhow, I don't want to seem so authoritative, obviously, it's a personal choice, but if you truly feel this person is bad and vindictive ... it could very well consume you. Surely you're a smart guy, find a place that works for you.
agreed. think in terms of game theory -- if you can hustle your way out of there, you could be saving yourself a lot of emotional wear/toll.
I was going to say the exact same thing. You're the new guy and she's part of the culture. The possibility of being able to change her or the company surrounding her is almost nil. At this point its better to cut your losses and go.
jongar_xyz(5)
This is a throwaway account.
I’ve been in a new company for 2 months now. I’m a developer and I’m being bullied by my Product Owner. I’m a direct to an Agile Coach and on top of us is the CTO. This is a tech company with around 70 employees and we are in Europe. The PO is a female and I’m a male.
On my first week, me and the PO had a disagreement during a Scrum Grooming. It wasn’t a big deal for me but it must have been a big deal for her. Since then I’ve been constantly questioned, bullied and I’m sure she bad mouthes me to the upper management and other senior people. I also know that she accuses me of being sexist (I’m a feminist and a LGBT rights activist). This week she screamed at me.
I know this person is perceived as aggressive by the rest of the company but she seems well integrated and she has a lot of pull with upper management. My team members are aware of the situation but they obviously don’t want to get involved.
I don’t discuss the situation with anyone with fear of being accused of trying to win them to my side. I only want the situation to go away. I’m afraid of complaining to my Agile Coach and/or HR because I don’t want the person in question to be confronted otherwise I think it will only make things worse for me.
I’m on a 6 months contract and I’m afraid this person will make sure I don’t get a full employment offer. I’ve been doing very well with my programming tasks so I know that’s not an issue.
I like the company and the paycheck is great. I’ve never been in a situation like this before. I live in constant fear of upsetting her. What do I do?