Chemistry of Cast-Iron Seasoning (2010)(sherylcanter.com)
sherylcanter.com
Chemistry of Cast-Iron Seasoning (2010)
http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/
293 comments
As someone who owns more cast iron than is reasonable, I just wanted to go a step beyond upvoting this and acknowledge in writing that this is the correct view of things.
You want oil soaked into the metal. This idea that you are trying to build a non-stick surface on top of the metal is just adding extra work that isn't needed.
Wash with soap, dry of the stove top, put in some oil (I use peanut), then take a paper towel and rub the oil around over everything and at the end the metal should look shiny but there shouldn't be any pooled oil left anywhere.
If you are cooking something that doesn't leave a residue or strong flavor, you can skip the washing all together and just leave it there to cook with next time.
If you try to go the whole "never wash this" route, you end up with unhappy results going from cooking something with onions and garlic to cooking something more neutral flavored. No one wants onion flavored pancakes.
You want oil soaked into the metal. This idea that you are trying to build a non-stick surface on top of the metal is just adding extra work that isn't needed.
Wash with soap, dry of the stove top, put in some oil (I use peanut), then take a paper towel and rub the oil around over everything and at the end the metal should look shiny but there shouldn't be any pooled oil left anywhere.
If you are cooking something that doesn't leave a residue or strong flavor, you can skip the washing all together and just leave it there to cook with next time.
If you try to go the whole "never wash this" route, you end up with unhappy results going from cooking something with onions and garlic to cooking something more neutral flavored. No one wants onion flavored pancakes.
The main thing I’ve learned that most advice about seasoning pans doesn’t tell you is that how you use the pan to cook matters more than how well seasoned it is. Cast iron is really forgiving of seasoning, you don’t need the perfect job to cook with it.
However, cast iron will never be as non-stick as a good non-stick pan, and if you treat it as one, you’re going to have a bad time.
Put bacon in a dry, hot pan, and it’ll leave crispy fond stuck to the pan. (Nothing you do will ever create fond in a non-stick pan.) Cook bacon starting with a cold pan, and enough fat will render by the time it heats to keep it from sticking.
Eggs will stick to cold, dry cast iron. Fry eggs in a moderately hot pan with plenty of grease. I had the devil of a time with fried eggs until I realized I wasn’t letting the pan heat enough. Also, it’s very easy to burn butter in a cast iron pan; use a more forgiving fat like bacon grease or a neutral oil.
Cast iron behaves differently than non-stick or stainless steel. Different heat density, different emissivity. Just like any other cookware, you need to learn how to work with it; it’s not just a matter of getting the magical perfect seasoning and pretending it’s Teflon.
However, cast iron will never be as non-stick as a good non-stick pan, and if you treat it as one, you’re going to have a bad time.
Put bacon in a dry, hot pan, and it’ll leave crispy fond stuck to the pan. (Nothing you do will ever create fond in a non-stick pan.) Cook bacon starting with a cold pan, and enough fat will render by the time it heats to keep it from sticking.
Eggs will stick to cold, dry cast iron. Fry eggs in a moderately hot pan with plenty of grease. I had the devil of a time with fried eggs until I realized I wasn’t letting the pan heat enough. Also, it’s very easy to burn butter in a cast iron pan; use a more forgiving fat like bacon grease or a neutral oil.
Cast iron behaves differently than non-stick or stainless steel. Different heat density, different emissivity. Just like any other cookware, you need to learn how to work with it; it’s not just a matter of getting the magical perfect seasoning and pretending it’s Teflon.
However, cast iron will never be as non-stick as a good non-stick pan
Also I always put bacon in my pan dry and hot, never have an issue
While you can eventually develop a very non-stick surface with cast iron or carbon steel, there's also the option to make a "spanish egg" with a medium amount of hot oil; e.g. https://youtu.be/mL-w_OegewU?t=215
Keeping an IR thermometer by the stovetop is handy if you're cooking with cast iron. It removes the guess work around things like "Am I going to burn this butter if I drop it in the pan?"
Putting a drop of water on the pan is a good indicator of temperature. It will either sit there in a small puddle, wander around a bit, or zoom around in a frenzy.
for most medium/high, when an oiled pan, you can see the super faint smoke. for some oiled, even based on the viscosity from shaking the pan. water test is good for learning this point. but water in an oily pan can hurt later so good to learn to do without :)
some startups have been experimenting with built-in thermometers, so I can imagine this classic design being different 10yr from now :)
some startups have been experimenting with built-in thermometers, so I can imagine this classic design being different 10yr from now :)
> some startups have been experimenting with built-in thermometers, so I can imagine this classic design being different 10yr from now
T-fal has had the thermo spot in their regular nonstick pans for at least a decade, if not two or three.
T-fal has had the thermo spot in their regular nonstick pans for at least a decade, if not two or three.
Also, without washing, you end up with rough spots of non-sticky partially-polymerized bits. Wash it with soap and a scrub brush. Nothing short of steel wool is going to affect the patina.
For proof of this, check out your aluminum baking sheets. If they’ve been used, they’re almost certainly covered in a shiny black substance that’s a complete pain in the ass to remove, even with abrasives. That’s essentially what’s on your cast iron.
For proof of this, check out your aluminum baking sheets. If they’ve been used, they’re almost certainly covered in a shiny black substance that’s a complete pain in the ass to remove, even with abrasives. That’s essentially what’s on your cast iron.
Nothing short of steel wool is going to affect the patina.
Actually, if you throw it in the oven and set it to self-clean it'll strip the seasoning right off. I've done it with my cast iron pan before. Washes completely clean and ends up gun-metal grey; a non-oxidized pure iron surface. This is a great way to start over with the seasoning process if you're unhappy with it.
Actually, if you throw it in the oven and set it to self-clean it'll strip the seasoning right off. I've done it with my cast iron pan before. Washes completely clean and ends up gun-metal grey; a non-oxidized pure iron surface. This is a great way to start over with the seasoning process if you're unhappy with it.
Yes, if you happen to own an oven that has this feature. It's not exactly common.
Edit: because of course I triggered a storm. Maybe it's common elsewhere. I've lived in few EU countries, rented then owned a few houses, exactly only one of them had an oven with the self cleaning(by heating up to like 500C) feature, I don't think we ever used it. When we bought our current oven none of the ones we looked at had that function. A fancy Candy we looked at had a function where it cleans itself with steam(where you fill up a provided container with water and then it heats it up to fill the oven with steam and in theory that softens the gunk. No idea if that actually works).
If it's common where you live, then my apologies for this comment.
Edit: because of course I triggered a storm. Maybe it's common elsewhere. I've lived in few EU countries, rented then owned a few houses, exactly only one of them had an oven with the self cleaning(by heating up to like 500C) feature, I don't think we ever used it. When we bought our current oven none of the ones we looked at had that function. A fancy Candy we looked at had a function where it cleans itself with steam(where you fill up a provided container with water and then it heats it up to fill the oven with steam and in theory that softens the gunk. No idea if that actually works).
If it's common where you live, then my apologies for this comment.
Not sure where you're writing from, but it's very common in the US. This article (https://www.thekitchn.com/why-you-should-almost-never-use-th...) quotes someone who works for an appliance store in Cincinnati who says it's difficult to sell an oven without that feature. And as others have said, every oven I have every owned (or that my parents owned when I was around and capable of forming memories) has been self-cleaning.
Maybe it sounds fancier than it is? Is not like it has a little robot that cleans the oven. It's just a mode where the oven can get the internal temperature very high (up to 1000 degrees F according to that article) that just incinerates any organic material stuck to the oven walls.
Maybe it sounds fancier than it is? Is not like it has a little robot that cleans the oven. It's just a mode where the oven can get the internal temperature very high (up to 1000 degrees F according to that article) that just incinerates any organic material stuck to the oven walls.
Its not fancy, but I guess it requires a bit more resilient engineering/materials than 250C ovens. Its definitely not a norm in budget/medium priced ovens in Europe, even for new. I mean brands like Bosch mostly don't have it here, I never had one (house, 2 apartments, couple of rental apartments all with full kitchen, kitchen < 10 years old).
Do you guys use electric ovens?
Most ovens in the U.S. burn natural gas, which burns at 1000 degrees F (which is the self-cleaning temperature).
Most ovens in the U.S. burn natural gas, which burns at 1000 degrees F (which is the self-cleaning temperature).
In my experience it was fairly uncommon 30+ years ago, but common today.
Mine doesn't, but that's because it's too fancy, and has a special coating on the inside that's supposed to make stuff just come off. Freaking Whirlpool. It doesn't work.
Really? I figured most ovens had a self-cleaning option... I did this trick to recondition several cast iron pans and it works great, but be prepared for massive amounts of greasy smoke.
Afaik it's just not a thing in europe. Only high end models have it, and even then it's an optional feature that costs extra. Even in a kitchen I rented where just the sink faucet did cost 1000€ the self-cleaning module of the oven was not installed.
We tend to have pretty different ovens in Europe vs the US.
Just a random thought (lived both in the US and in the EU): could it be that US ovens are more often gas ovens while in the EU it's mostly electric? (might be easier to get higher temperatures with gas).
Couldn't find statistics on this with a quick search...
Couldn't find statistics on this with a quick search...
It's the opposite... my oven in the US doesn't have the cleaning thing, turns out it's because it's gas only. The gas stovetop + electric oven version of this model has it. Seems to be a thing even with other manufacturers and models.
I’ve lived in the US and EU too. My experience was we have fan assisted ovens in the EU whereas ones I saw in the US had a top and bottom element with no fan assist.
Fan assisted ovens are also called "convection ovens." They certainly exist in the US, but I think they are more high end? I personally have one, it also has a self-clean function. The stove part is gas but I think (?) the oven is electric.
Ovens are smaller here typically and you’ll more often than not find the oven and hob (stove) as separate appliances.
I'm in Canada, but I don't think I've ever seen a gas oven. All my ovens have been electric, and nearly all of them had a self-clean option.
Yes it is, it's marketed as 'pyrolytic', it's the norm above roughly £350 and unusual roughly below.
But yes, it is just an element that can go hotter and a shell that can withstand it. Ovens are incredibly overpriced for how rudimentary they are IMO. Ripe for 'disruption' if you had something non-bullshit to compete on but price - sizing is already standardised.
But yes, it is just an element that can go hotter and a shell that can withstand it. Ovens are incredibly overpriced for how rudimentary they are IMO. Ripe for 'disruption' if you had something non-bullshit to compete on but price - sizing is already standardised.
`pyrolytic` does not exist as a keyword for ovens in my country. I just checked at the biggest retailer for such stuff.
The cleaning module of the one oven I'm aware of that had that option was more than just a heating thing. The manual talked about foam and how to refill it. Different countries, different mechanisms I assume.
The cleaning module of the one oven I'm aware of that had that option was more than just a heating thing. The manual talked about foam and how to refill it. Different countries, different mechanisms I assume.
Never seen it in Australia either but maybe I'm sheltered.
interesting - both electrolux ovens i have had in the last 10y do have self cleaning. that just - heat as much as possible mode.
You can do it with a propane grill as the temperatures are hot enthused to carbonize any polymers.
Or just use easy off which is a spray on acid.
Or just use easy off which is a spray on acid.
Easy Off is a spray on with a pH well above 7, thus a base. Not an acid.
http://www.rbnainfo.com/product.php?productLineId=2704
http://www.rbnainfo.com/product.php?productLineId=2704
I lived in some of the crappiest places, never had a fancy oven. Every single one had a self cleaning option.
Some wackos disable the safety latch and then cook pizza in their ovens on the self clean cycle:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=268.0
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=268.0
Thank you for the most informative post on this HN discussion!
I’ve never had a non-self-cleaning oven.
I've tried this a few times and none of the ovens I've had over the years have been successful in removing seasoning with their self-cleaning, so at this point I'm trying to find a machine shop that will be happy to bead blast it and mill the surface flat again. So far, most shops have given me quotes in the hundreds of dollars so I've been waiting until I meet someone that has the capability to just do it in their garage.
Most new cast iron cookware now has a raw surface with lots of pits and bumps from the casting process as well, which doesn't seem to get nearly as smooth and non-stick as "vintage" cookware.
Most new cast iron cookware now has a raw surface with lots of pits and bumps from the casting process as well, which doesn't seem to get nearly as smooth and non-stick as "vintage" cookware.
Since quarantine life, I've been cooking multiple times a day. My oven's self-clean makes my pans look exactly like new. Takes all of the black off leaving them with a shiny, silvery shine. I then have to season them to regain a nonstick coating as good as any Ceramic/Teflon pan that I've used.
As far soap. My experience is that it definitely damages the nonstick coating, depending on how much you use. You can get by with a soapy sponge, but putting detergent directly on it and the nonstick coating will be lost.
The best way to avoid need to avoid soap or scrubbing and re-seasoning is to put hot water in the pan while it's still hot and scrape. Meat is the worst for leaving a coating and this technique removes 99% of it.(If not blackened use that water for a delicious sauce with all the best flavors of your cooking). This routine allows me to use the same pan for months without a deep cleaning.
I have tried to put cold oil on after heaving soaping, but I'm not happy with the pan until I season it with high heat. The only reason I'd do it for rust and still would pan on seasoning it properly later.
As far soap. My experience is that it definitely damages the nonstick coating, depending on how much you use. You can get by with a soapy sponge, but putting detergent directly on it and the nonstick coating will be lost.
The best way to avoid need to avoid soap or scrubbing and re-seasoning is to put hot water in the pan while it's still hot and scrape. Meat is the worst for leaving a coating and this technique removes 99% of it.(If not blackened use that water for a delicious sauce with all the best flavors of your cooking). This routine allows me to use the same pan for months without a deep cleaning.
I have tried to put cold oil on after heaving soaping, but I'm not happy with the pan until I season it with high heat. The only reason I'd do it for rust and still would pan on seasoning it properly later.
The biggest difference I've found (moreso on stainless steel than cast iron) is food weight: which is to say, time food is left without moving.
Which makes sense. Essentially burnt-to-pan bits are food-pan interface, as opposed to food-oil-pan interface.
Give enough time, heavy food displaces oil and comes in direct contact with pan. Given enough movement, oil is able to reimpose itself between the two.
Which makes sense. Essentially burnt-to-pan bits are food-pan interface, as opposed to food-oil-pan interface.
Give enough time, heavy food displaces oil and comes in direct contact with pan. Given enough movement, oil is able to reimpose itself between the two.
I used a propane grill and it was very, very effective. I removed the grates and (if I recall correctly) rested the pan on the heat deflection sheets. I left all burners on for about 2 1/2 hours. After cooling, the previous coating was reduced to a thin dust. After blowing it off, the pan was gun metal grey.
I then used a cheap corded drill and inexpensive flap wheels and similar attachments from the hardware store to make it smooth, wearing an N95 mask to protect my lungs.
I then used a cheap corded drill and inexpensive flap wheels and similar attachments from the hardware store to make it smooth, wearing an N95 mask to protect my lungs.
Self cleaning should reach a high enough temp for it, because most of what you use the self-cleaning to take off is effectively seasoning. If it's not getting hot enough, use something else to get it hot enough (blowtorch, maybe).
For smoothing out the surface, you could just use a flapwheel. You can get them for angle grinders. This will also take off seasoning if necessary (but it's a bit worse for the pan if you're not also trying to smooth it out). Be sure to wear a respirator and googles if you're doing this.
For smoothing out the surface, you could just use a flapwheel. You can get them for angle grinders. This will also take off seasoning if necessary (but it's a bit worse for the pan if you're not also trying to smooth it out). Be sure to wear a respirator and googles if you're doing this.
You can stick the pan in a bag, spray on some easy off and let it soak overnight.
If you're planning to re-season an old pan, easily the best way of stripping off old crud is caustic soda. Leave the pan in a bath of caustic for 24 hours, then scrub with wire wool.
Voila - a clean iron surface. Use rubber gloves, and wash off any splash with lots of water - caustic soda is nasty stuff.
I use flaxseed oil. It works. Unless you have an awful lot of pans, your small bottle of flaxseed oil will only be 10% used by the time it goes rancid; swallow the cost.
I've tried this on a goood carbon-steel omelette pan. The result was mixed; a grubby-looking polymer layer that comes off in the wash, but a pan that still works well, and has reasonable non-stick properties. I suspect that with carbon steel, the oil only needs to get into the pores in the metal, and doesn't need to form a layer on the surface at all.
But my best experience has been with cast iron: a mexican comal, to be specfic. I stripped and seasoned my comal about 8 years ago, and the finish is still flawless.
Voila - a clean iron surface. Use rubber gloves, and wash off any splash with lots of water - caustic soda is nasty stuff.
I use flaxseed oil. It works. Unless you have an awful lot of pans, your small bottle of flaxseed oil will only be 10% used by the time it goes rancid; swallow the cost.
I've tried this on a goood carbon-steel omelette pan. The result was mixed; a grubby-looking polymer layer that comes off in the wash, but a pan that still works well, and has reasonable non-stick properties. I suspect that with carbon steel, the oil only needs to get into the pores in the metal, and doesn't need to form a layer on the surface at all.
But my best experience has been with cast iron: a mexican comal, to be specfic. I stripped and seasoned my comal about 8 years ago, and the finish is still flawless.
Apparently there is some controversy over whether the self-cleaning cycle is bad for ovens. [1] [2]
1: https://www.thekitchn.com/why-you-should-almost-never-use-th...
2: https://lifehacker.com/dont-use-your-ovens-self-cleaning-fun...
1: https://www.thekitchn.com/why-you-should-almost-never-use-th...
2: https://lifehacker.com/dont-use-your-ovens-self-cleaning-fun...
Incidentally, if your want your aluminum or stainless steel clean again with almost no effort, use Barkeeper's Friend. It's an oxalic acid product, and it wipes away stains with a sponge that you'd work hard to sand out.
Obviously, do not use on cast iron or carbon steel.
Obviously, do not use on cast iron or carbon steel.
I don’t know about your experience, but even with BKF, the scrubby side of the sponge, and a lot of elbow grease, it takes ages to get it off an aluminum pan. I did it once and it took two full hours, and gave me blisters on my hands from the sheer amount of scrubbing.
I had similar issues with the AllClad pans I bought, so I called them out of frustration. They recommend Dobie sponges in addition to the Barkeeper's Friend. It seems to help.
What also helps is simmering something acidic in the pan for about 10-15 minutes (wine, watered-down vinegar, etc). The base then cleans pretty easily. It's the burnt bits of fat that splatter up the walls of the pan that are murder to get out.
What also helps is simmering something acidic in the pan for about 10-15 minutes (wine, watered-down vinegar, etc). The base then cleans pretty easily. It's the burnt bits of fat that splatter up the walls of the pan that are murder to get out.
Sponges come in all levels of abrasiveness.
Here in the US at least, there tend to be scratch (yellow/green) and non-scratch (blue/darker-blue). Along with straight scratch pad (pure green) and steel wool (silver metal).
You can grind all day with a non-scratch pad, and all you're really polishing with is the harder bits of gunk you've managed to take off.
Same way you can sand with 220 grit all day and barely make a dent, but hit something with 60 grit and make progress in 5 minutes.
Afaik, Barkeeper's Friend is essentially microgrit in some sort of liquid carrier. If you had the right shaped sand, you could probably add that to something and get a similar effect.
Here in the US at least, there tend to be scratch (yellow/green) and non-scratch (blue/darker-blue). Along with straight scratch pad (pure green) and steel wool (silver metal).
You can grind all day with a non-scratch pad, and all you're really polishing with is the harder bits of gunk you've managed to take off.
Same way you can sand with 220 grit all day and barely make a dent, but hit something with 60 grit and make progress in 5 minutes.
Afaik, Barkeeper's Friend is essentially microgrit in some sort of liquid carrier. If you had the right shaped sand, you could probably add that to something and get a similar effect.
Burnt bits of fat don't come off with acid, they need base. My wife pours ammonia into a baggie and leaves things in it.
There's two versions of barkeeper's friend, a powder one and a liquid one. The powder one is the one to use to remove caked on residue.
Try oven cleaner! I leave it on sheet pans for about 15 minutes; it’s amazing what wipes away.
> Obviously, do not use on cast iron or carbon steel.
Unless your seasoning is flaking off because you followed OP's instructions and you need to start again.
Unless your seasoning is flaking off because you followed OP's instructions and you need to start again.
Cooking anything acidic will strip all of the seasoning right off. I can easily keep a seasoning on my carbon steel woks, but it’ll vanish if I cook one Pad Thai. For my cast iron I can keep it there until I want to cook anything with tomatoes.
> For proof of this, check out your aluminum baking sheets. If they’ve been used, they’re almost certainly covered in a shiny black substance that’s a complete pain in the ass to remove, even with abrasives. That’s essentially what’s on your cast iron.
I'd never made this link before, thanks for pointing it out! We have plenty of baking sheets like this and I thought it was a form of black rust or something but your explanation makes so much more sense.
I'd never made this link before, thanks for pointing it out! We have plenty of baking sheets like this and I thought it was a form of black rust or something but your explanation makes so much more sense.
I wash it with water and scrub with scotch brite. Will try homemade soap.
Do not use homemade soap. Homemade soap is made with lye, which is the entire reason why people said not to use soap, once upon a time. An unreacted lye will start to strip seasoning.
Use dish detergent (commercial dish soap). It's made in a different way, so you can't get un-reacted lye.
Use dish detergent (commercial dish soap). It's made in a different way, so you can't get un-reacted lye.
If you have unreacted lye in your soap you're going to have more problems than just stripping the seasoning off your pan.
I mean, if you have a bunch, yeah, you're going to have more issue than just stripping seasoning off. But most of the problem is just the slightest hint excess from making sure the entire volume of oil is saponified.
It's part of why you had the rubber dishwashing gloves get invented: soap used to be harsher, and one of the reasons why is the fact that soaps were made with lye.
It's part of why you had the rubber dishwashing gloves get invented: soap used to be harsher, and one of the reasons why is the fact that soaps were made with lye.
Homemade X is made with whatever you made it with...
Homemade soap is soap. The only way to make soap is the saponification process. Which involves lye. The oil used can vary, but a strong alkali is required, and any strong alkali you use is going to do the saponification process on your seasoning.
Commercial dish soap can be soap, or it could be detergent. Detergent is made differently, and doesn't necessarily involve lye.
Commercial dish soap can be soap, or it could be detergent. Detergent is made differently, and doesn't necessarily involve lye.
From Wikipedia:
> The production of toilet soaps usually entails saponification of triglycerides, which are vegetable or animal oils and fats. An alkaline solution (often lye or sodium hydroxide) induces saponification [...]
i.e. that's the usual process, and it often involves lye. (It elsewhere mentions potassium hydroxide too.)
Anyway my point really wasn't too disagree about how to make soap, I've never done it, it just seemed weird to me to tell someone how they made something and that it's a problem, vs. 'Did you use lye? If so...' or even 'Assuming you used lye, ...'
For example, I think what you call 'commercial dish soap' I would call 'washing up liquid' (never soap, not would it cross my mind if someone else said 'soap') so a slightly different conversation could easily have been based on a wrong assumption about what the created thing was or was used for.
> The production of toilet soaps usually entails saponification of triglycerides, which are vegetable or animal oils and fats. An alkaline solution (often lye or sodium hydroxide) induces saponification [...]
i.e. that's the usual process, and it often involves lye. (It elsewhere mentions potassium hydroxide too.)
Anyway my point really wasn't too disagree about how to make soap, I've never done it, it just seemed weird to me to tell someone how they made something and that it's a problem, vs. 'Did you use lye? If so...' or even 'Assuming you used lye, ...'
For example, I think what you call 'commercial dish soap' I would call 'washing up liquid' (never soap, not would it cross my mind if someone else said 'soap') so a slightly different conversation could easily have been based on a wrong assumption about what the created thing was or was used for.
Totally agree except that onion flavored pancakes can be delicious.
Scallion pancake with pork belly is one of my favorite combos :-)
Scallion pancake with pork belly is one of my favorite combos :-)
Absolutely correct. There are many usually sweet recipes that are actually great when done savoury instead. I personally like it when the last thing I made in the pan was something that had onion and then I gotta make pancakes, precisely because the first pancake will have that flavor. Then I put chorizo and cheese on it too and call it a day. Next pancake will be 'normal' again anyway. Win-Win!
I'm a huge fan of savory fried any-cake (e.g. hoecakes, [0]). Just because something is normally made one way is no reason to limit ourselves.
You can make sweet or savory crepes, so why not pancakes?
But then, I'm not a big fan of actual-cake and don't have much of a sweet tooth.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnycake
You can make sweet or savory crepes, so why not pancakes?
But then, I'm not a big fan of actual-cake and don't have much of a sweet tooth.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnycake
> You want oil soaked into the metal.
Is there solid evidence that this is actually possible, as opposed to creating a layer on top of it? The only people I've ever heard suggest that it's possible were talking about cast iron pans, and it's always struck me as the sort of thing that would have major implications for a lot of other fields.
I tried some web searches before posting this, still not finding anything suggesting it's possible other than cast iron pan aficionados.
Is there solid evidence that this is actually possible, as opposed to creating a layer on top of it? The only people I've ever heard suggest that it's possible were talking about cast iron pans, and it's always struck me as the sort of thing that would have major implications for a lot of other fields.
I tried some web searches before posting this, still not finding anything suggesting it's possible other than cast iron pan aficionados.
Yuan, Z., Xiao, J., Wang, C. et al. Preparation of a superamphiphobic surface on a common cast iron substrate. J Coat Technol Res 8, 773 (2011). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11998-011-9365-7
I don't have a subscription or SciHub link to pull up the underlying, but it looks like there have been folks who did electron microscopy on seasoned cast iron. (Note: more relevant and profitable to study in the context of machinery / engine design)
I don't have a subscription or SciHub link to pull up the underlying, but it looks like there have been folks who did electron microscopy on seasoned cast iron. (Note: more relevant and profitable to study in the context of machinery / engine design)
> Is there solid evidence that this is actually possible, as opposed to creating a layer on top of it?
I doubt that's actually what happens, but if you think of it that way, you'll end up with the right result.
I doubt that's actually what happens, but if you think of it that way, you'll end up with the right result.
"Soak into" is probably an engineering approximation converted to lay language.
What we're really talking about is surface-gap-filling.
So yes, "into" at some level of magnification. "Onto" at another.
What we're really talking about is surface-gap-filling.
So yes, "into" at some level of magnification. "Onto" at another.
Indeed! I was avoiding describing the surfaces at high detail
.
Yes, this isn’t a mystery. There are lots of coated steel products that use the crudest of coatings that need grinder off. Unless the material is polished to a high shine it will absorb oil.
Tangential but related: Oilite:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilite
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilite
yeah oilite is a great bearing material, but it‘s not exactly „normal“ metal, but sintered bronze. In essence, you clump together bronze powder with a binder and then heat it up until the binder is gone and the powder has stuck together. What‘s left behind is kind of like a sponge, which enables impregnation with oil. Very special process and nothing to do with metal always having „pores“ or anything where oil can seep in
Wow that Wikipedia page reads like an ad.
I agree on 95% of this post. I think that's part of the allure of Cast Iron. It's a personal thing where people develop their own methods through experience.
However I try to avoid using soapy chemicals on my cast iron. If I do use soap it's literally one drop onto the scrub brush instead of the pan. Although I'm sure that if you went heavier on the soap nothing would come of it anyway. Most of the time I use water and a scrub brush. I scrub with good speed and not a lot of pressure to break off lingering debris.
And if I'm going to be using it the next day I'll leave it shiny, but if it's going to sit for a couple days I'll leave it on a little longer until it's a little more matte looking. Not 100% matte, but not "shiny" either. Just a sheen. That way it won't be sticky during storage where it will collect dust and contaminants.
However I try to avoid using soapy chemicals on my cast iron. If I do use soap it's literally one drop onto the scrub brush instead of the pan. Although I'm sure that if you went heavier on the soap nothing would come of it anyway. Most of the time I use water and a scrub brush. I scrub with good speed and not a lot of pressure to break off lingering debris.
And if I'm going to be using it the next day I'll leave it shiny, but if it's going to sit for a couple days I'll leave it on a little longer until it's a little more matte looking. Not 100% matte, but not "shiny" either. Just a sheen. That way it won't be sticky during storage where it will collect dust and contaminants.
Huh. That's not it at all for me. I like cast iron because: (1) It is extremely durable and can be repaired rather than replaced. (2) It is general purpose, reducing the number of pans I need to own. (3) It is well suited to cooking at low temperatures, which are much more forgiving (I can walk away and write a comment like this and come back to something other than a charred mess).
edit: I discovered cast iron about a year ago and now I do roughly 90% of my cooking on it. If there were reliable, science-based information about how to care for the pan best, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. As an example, a lot of people caution against seasoning with too much oil. They say that when you season your pan (e.g. initially, in the oven), you should wipe the oil off until the pan looks dry. I took this literally, and wiped until it looked the same as before I put on the oil. As a result, my seasoning had approximately no effect. After experimenting, I've decided that the "looks dry" advice isn't wrong exactly, but "dry" needs clarification. It should look more like how you would like it to look when it comes out of the oven — dry, but darker and with more sheen.
edit: I discovered cast iron about a year ago and now I do roughly 90% of my cooking on it. If there were reliable, science-based information about how to care for the pan best, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. As an example, a lot of people caution against seasoning with too much oil. They say that when you season your pan (e.g. initially, in the oven), you should wipe the oil off until the pan looks dry. I took this literally, and wiped until it looked the same as before I put on the oil. As a result, my seasoning had approximately no effect. After experimenting, I've decided that the "looks dry" advice isn't wrong exactly, but "dry" needs clarification. It should look more like how you would like it to look when it comes out of the oven — dry, but darker and with more sheen.
> If there were reliable, science-based information about how to care for the pan best, it would have saved me a lot of trouble
I think the trouble here is that the people who best understand cast iron are probably also the least likely to care about the science of it.
The main reason not to leave too much oil in the pan is that it will go rancid and get sticky and generally gross. That's not something you run up against if you use the pan several times a week, but if you have something like a dutch oven that you use maybe once or twice a month, you will come back to a mess that you have to deal with before you can cook in it.
The whole "you're making a polymer coating that mimics a teflon pan" idea is something that sounds fancy, but is impractical and unnecessary in practice.
I think the trouble here is that the people who best understand cast iron are probably also the least likely to care about the science of it.
The main reason not to leave too much oil in the pan is that it will go rancid and get sticky and generally gross. That's not something you run up against if you use the pan several times a week, but if you have something like a dutch oven that you use maybe once or twice a month, you will come back to a mess that you have to deal with before you can cook in it.
The whole "you're making a polymer coating that mimics a teflon pan" idea is something that sounds fancy, but is impractical and unnecessary in practice.
> I think the trouble here is that the people who best understand cast iron are probably also the least likely to care about the science of it.
Hmm. Perhaps. I said science-based information because while I find the science (chemistry, polymerization, etc) of cast iron interesting, I primarily care about the results. For example, knowing that flax oil gives the non-stickiest finish but is prone to flaking and thus high maintenance. Perhaps empirical would have been a better word than science-based. I suspect there are a fair number of people like me, who would like to know more about the trade-offs involved in different oils and maintenance procedures. But perhaps these aren't the people who best understand cast iron, as you say.
Two things of note:
- The best answer in the FAQ in the top comment of this thread, by FAR, is #2, about heat spreading. It gives numbers and additional information (about radiating the heat) that I didn't know before.
- Flax is the only oil that I understand even some of the trade-offs of using. That is a direct result of the post linked in this thread publicly making a hypothesis and providing detailed-enough steps for (some people) to reproduce its results.
Speaking of, as a cast iron enthusiast, would you be willing to share your experiences and/or do some experiments to help test my hypothesis on cleaning methods, here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25716850
Hmm. Perhaps. I said science-based information because while I find the science (chemistry, polymerization, etc) of cast iron interesting, I primarily care about the results. For example, knowing that flax oil gives the non-stickiest finish but is prone to flaking and thus high maintenance. Perhaps empirical would have been a better word than science-based. I suspect there are a fair number of people like me, who would like to know more about the trade-offs involved in different oils and maintenance procedures. But perhaps these aren't the people who best understand cast iron, as you say.
Two things of note:
- The best answer in the FAQ in the top comment of this thread, by FAR, is #2, about heat spreading. It gives numbers and additional information (about radiating the heat) that I didn't know before.
- Flax is the only oil that I understand even some of the trade-offs of using. That is a direct result of the post linked in this thread publicly making a hypothesis and providing detailed-enough steps for (some people) to reproduce its results.
Speaking of, as a cast iron enthusiast, would you be willing to share your experiences and/or do some experiments to help test my hypothesis on cleaning methods, here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25716850
Have you tried carbon steel? In my opinion it is superior to cast iron in every way, especially durability.
as materials, carbon steel and cast iron are extremely similar, except that carbon steel can be stamped rather than cast. in practice, this means that carbon steel skillets tend to be much thinner than cast iron ones. durability would not be an advantage I would attribute to the typical carbon steel skillet. a cast iron skillet is pretty much indestructible; if you drop it from stove-height, it would be more likely to damage your floor than to shatter. a carbon steel skillet can easily warp if you heat it up too quickly, which is not nearly as great a concern with a heavy cast iron skillet.
I have a cast iron and a carbon steel skillet. I will always reach for the cast iron to sear a steak, but the carbon steel skillet gets used for pretty much everything else.
I have a cast iron and a carbon steel skillet. I will always reach for the cast iron to sear a steak, but the carbon steel skillet gets used for pretty much everything else.
I have a Blackstone carbon steel griddle and it is very nice. A little uneven but it gives me areas to keep stuff warm around the outside.
I also like both, I have a hand-me-down Cast Iron that I love for skillet baking and nostalgia but I also have a few pieces of Made In Carbon Steel that I use more often as they're lighter and less of a pain to season and maintain.
I like bith. Carboon steel for the pancake and omlet pan and cast iron for the steak pan. Cast iron has more thermal mass. I should probably also get a cast iron pot for cooking stew.
Not yet. I plan to at some point.
> No one wants onion flavored pancakes.
Somebody's never had latkes before.
Somebody's never had latkes before.
So I understand correctly, do you mean to wash it after every (most) uses, and apply a little oil after washing? No need to bake in the oven or anything like that?
If you're trying to add a little more seasoning you will need to bake. You'd do this after a rough cleaning or cooking something watery or acidic. If you're just protecting it from ambient moisture just a teensy coat.
> No need to bake in the oven or anything like that?
Correct.
I will sometimes do the oil and bake thing for our Dutch oven if it has been neglected a while and has bits of rust or other questionable-ness to it.
Correct.
I will sometimes do the oil and bake thing for our Dutch oven if it has been neglected a while and has bits of rust or other questionable-ness to it.
Just wash it like normal, stuff that comes off is charred food etc. aka 'dirt'. The actual polymerised seasoning isn't going to come off with a bit of water and washing up liquid.
Forgot to ask in my other comment, does all this apply for carbon steel too?
general consensus on reddit (and my personal experience) seems to be that seasoning on carbon steel is a bit more delicate than on cast iron, possibly because carbon steel skillets tend to have a much smoother surface.
chemically, carbon steel is very similar to cast iron, so all the info regarding cleaning is still applicable. you should probably expect to do a little more work to maintain the seasoning on a carbon steel pan though.
chemically, carbon steel is very similar to cast iron, so all the info regarding cleaning is still applicable. you should probably expect to do a little more work to maintain the seasoning on a carbon steel pan though.
[deleted]
> no one wants onion-flavoured pancakes
:/
:/
I use only cast iron, always cook on a wood-burning stove. The way I season pans is simple, I just put the thing on a medium fire, dab some canola oil on it, rub it in, wipe it off, repeat this once or twice after which I just use it with enough oil (canola or olive). I clean them by rinsing them while hot with cold water which starts boiling immediately, wipe them with some paper and put them away. As long as they're kept dry they don't need reseasoning. No fancy oils needed, no special rituals, just use them regularly and that's it.
I'm a simple man, I see a post linking to a J. Kenji Lopez-Alt article, I upvote.
Another good method is outlined in this America's Test Kitchen video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suTmUX4Vbk
If you have a friend who runs a Chinese restaurant, you could always try this, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXGJD2xTzQ
I do this regularly and always clean my pan with soap after use.
Another good method is outlined in this America's Test Kitchen video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suTmUX4Vbk
If you have a friend who runs a Chinese restaurant, you could always try this, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXGJD2xTzQ
I do this regularly and always clean my pan with soap after use.
Although Kenji: "Whenever someone asks me why their cast iron seasoning is weak or flaky, I ask if they followed that popular (but wrong!) flaxseed seasoning guide [i.e. the linked article]. The answer has been yes 100% of the time."
That wok seasoning video is what I do! I also use soap on my pans, just not too much and with gentle scrubbing.
The wok burner I have is this one: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastman-Outdoors-37212-Gourmet-Carbon/...
It’s a ton of fun to cook on, and useful for way more than just the wok. When I go diving and get crabs for example, this thing gets a huge pot of water boiling in no time and makes prepping a lot of crabs really easy.
And yeah, it’ll season any pan like nothing else. I was terrible at seasoning pans until I started throwing them on this thing.
The wok burner I have is this one: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastman-Outdoors-37212-Gourmet-Carbon/...
It’s a ton of fun to cook on, and useful for way more than just the wok. When I go diving and get crabs for example, this thing gets a huge pot of water boiling in no time and makes prepping a lot of crabs really easy.
And yeah, it’ll season any pan like nothing else. I was terrible at seasoning pans until I started throwing them on this thing.
> You really shouldn't buy a special oil just [for] seasoning your cast iron and carbon steel. It's not necessary. Pick an oil with a high smoke point, a neutral taste, and plenty of easy availability. That's often peanut. Avocado is great if you're fancy.
Keep a squirt bottle of oil on hand and make sure you're using enough.
> I had friends dedicate years to flax seed oil. They're not happy about it, as they've got flaking to deal with.
I happen to have bought some flax oil specifically for seasoning my cast iron - you’re saying it’s contraindicated though? (So “you don’t need special oil, but _especially_ not these” (leaving only peanut and avocado))?
For the amount of times the word “science” is dropped there’s still a good amount of myth and legend associated with owning cast iron. Short of having my own double blind statically significant study and perhaps a microscope to observe the polymerization effects, I’m still flopping back/forth a bit about what “the best” or at least not leaving a simple improvement on the table, is. What a journey.
Still worth the trouble, though. Cooking is fun, and cast iron is a good cooking tool.
> I had friends dedicate years to flax seed oil. They're not happy about it, as they've got flaking to deal with.
I happen to have bought some flax oil specifically for seasoning my cast iron - you’re saying it’s contraindicated though? (So “you don’t need special oil, but _especially_ not these” (leaving only peanut and avocado))?
For the amount of times the word “science” is dropped there’s still a good amount of myth and legend associated with owning cast iron. Short of having my own double blind statically significant study and perhaps a microscope to observe the polymerization effects, I’m still flopping back/forth a bit about what “the best” or at least not leaving a simple improvement on the table, is. What a journey.
Still worth the trouble, though. Cooking is fun, and cast iron is a good cooking tool.
I interpreted what he said as you don't need a special oil, but here are some good options that do not have a strong flavor and will work well. But you could just as well use any other oil. I avoid nut based oils so I generally have olive and avacado around.
I don’t know if there was much interpretation. It broke down the science well enough or at least offered theories.
Having some good success and failure I am willing to try a few ideas in the article.
One variation a YouTuber offered was to heat the oil in the pan on the stove and then wipe the excess.
So far I have duplicated a lot of points in the article with different success ratios. I do agree a long smoke rate, upside down and long cooling period is ideal.
I use the grill so I don’t worry about the smoke generation.
More or less I’ve used this on the last successful project, but with corn oil. I went with a hybrid seasoning oil recently and I’m not impressed. I’ll try flax next.
Having some good success and failure I am willing to try a few ideas in the article.
One variation a YouTuber offered was to heat the oil in the pan on the stove and then wipe the excess.
So far I have duplicated a lot of points in the article with different success ratios. I do agree a long smoke rate, upside down and long cooling period is ideal.
I use the grill so I don’t worry about the smoke generation.
More or less I’ve used this on the last successful project, but with corn oil. I went with a hybrid seasoning oil recently and I’m not impressed. I’ll try flax next.
I guess the best oil (olive or otherwise) is highly processed, to remove volatile (flavour and healthy) components, since it’s essentially just being cooked into a polymer. Added bonus that these are probably cheapest - is that your experience?
Olive Oil's smoke point is not terribly high.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_cookin...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_cookin...
It looks to me like refined olive oil is in a range that puts it near the top. I guess the question though, is: is it sufficient?
Why do you want it to work? Sunflower is cheaper, higher smoke point, and the flavour isn't relevant here (though even if it weren't going to be lost, you would not want it, another strike against olive anyway).
If it’s to be dismissed, might as as well do it for the right reasons. Additionally, if somebody doesn’t have sunflower oil on hand (like me), then understanding what can stand in might save a trip to the grocery store and having yet another singly-used item in the cupboards.
Well, the only reason ever really to use olive is for its flavour; otherwise something else (e.g. sunflower, rapeseed/vegetable) is at least as appropriate and significantly cheaper.
The instructions for seasoning my carbon steel pan that I bought ages ago have worked better for me than any other method, fit both carbon steel and cast iron.
Just fry up a full pan of very heavily salted potato peels. Use more oil and a lot more salt than you would normally use for pan frying. Make sure to move them around, don't be afraid to scrub them around, they will feel gritty due to all the salt. Fry the peels until they're very dark, they should be far too dark and salty to be edible.
Wash out the pan with hot water and dry it. Done.
It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. It's the method used in professional kitchens, as far as I know.
Just fry up a full pan of very heavily salted potato peels. Use more oil and a lot more salt than you would normally use for pan frying. Make sure to move them around, don't be afraid to scrub them around, they will feel gritty due to all the salt. Fry the peels until they're very dark, they should be far too dark and salty to be edible.
Wash out the pan with hot water and dry it. Done.
It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. It's the method used in professional kitchens, as far as I know.
As someone relatively new to cast iron (around a year of cooking with it), I am inclined to believe the parts of this article that I cannot validate through my own experience, because the other parts match what I have learned through experimentation. However, I must point out that a year ago, I would have no way to recognize this. Whether or not this article is correct, it is at the same level of heresay as every other article, reddit comment, or youtube video out there (like the carbon steel video linked in the replies, which says never to use soap).
Despite the flax oil article being bad science, it is still the most science of any of the cast iron information out there, which is why it continues to enjoy such popularity. Even if it is bad science, it at least provides some hypotheses to test!
Here's my hypotheses on soap (edit: rephrased to better reflect my meaning):
1) Soap is fine to use; it will not damage the seasoning.
2) Seasoning is often damaged (at least a little) while cooking and it is important to re-season regularly to keep the pan in good shape.
3) If you do not use soap, the amount of oil left on the surface is similar to the amount you would want to wipe on when re-seasoning.
Basically, I think no soap + dry on stove is a shortcut to avoid the process/effort of reseasoning the pan (especially if you do the oil-and-salt-as-an-abrasive trick). Perhaps you'll get better results using soap and then wiping on oil, but it's more work and many people don't do the second part. Thus, they see better results when they don't use soap.
This would explain why some people tell you you need to reseason after every use, while others say that's bubkis, and why the same is true of soap avoidance.
To test: try all 4 combinations of soap/no-soap and reseasoning/just-drying (always dry the same way, on the stovetop).
Despite the flax oil article being bad science, it is still the most science of any of the cast iron information out there, which is why it continues to enjoy such popularity. Even if it is bad science, it at least provides some hypotheses to test!
Here's my hypotheses on soap (edit: rephrased to better reflect my meaning):
1) Soap is fine to use; it will not damage the seasoning.
2) Seasoning is often damaged (at least a little) while cooking and it is important to re-season regularly to keep the pan in good shape.
3) If you do not use soap, the amount of oil left on the surface is similar to the amount you would want to wipe on when re-seasoning.
Basically, I think no soap + dry on stove is a shortcut to avoid the process/effort of reseasoning the pan (especially if you do the oil-and-salt-as-an-abrasive trick). Perhaps you'll get better results using soap and then wiping on oil, but it's more work and many people don't do the second part. Thus, they see better results when they don't use soap.
This would explain why some people tell you you need to reseason after every use, while others say that's bubkis, and why the same is true of soap avoidance.
To test: try all 4 combinations of soap/no-soap and reseasoning/just-drying (always dry the same way, on the stovetop).
As a data point, I use a little soap when it feels needed (every few times, usually) and add seasoning when it feels needed (less often). Seasoning remains great (fry eggs without sticking).
These are my most often used pans, and have remained that way for many years.
Fwiw I rarely need or use a scraper or salt while cleaning , I’ll “deglaze” if there is fond in the pan, even in the rare case that I’m not using the result for anything.
These are my most often used pans, and have remained that way for many years.
Fwiw I rarely need or use a scraper or salt while cleaning , I’ll “deglaze” if there is fond in the pan, even in the rare case that I’m not using the result for anything.
As of writing the GP comment, I am starting to informally test the hypothesis as well. I've switched to sponge + soap to fully clean the inside with every use (after chain mail to remove larger bits, if needed), then dry on the stove & re-oil.
Specifically the idea is that IF the seasoning layer is quite durable and is difficult to damage or wear through, except by the rough metal of the spatula I use, then the best seasoning should be achieved by thoroughly cleaning any contaminants off it and then applying a fresh coat of oil.
It will likely take longer than the HN comment window before I feel comfortable drawing any conclusions, so I'm not sure how I'll follow up on this. Perhaps I'll post something at https://smichel.me/castiron (currently this page does not exist).
Specifically the idea is that IF the seasoning layer is quite durable and is difficult to damage or wear through, except by the rough metal of the spatula I use, then the best seasoning should be achieved by thoroughly cleaning any contaminants off it and then applying a fresh coat of oil.
It will likely take longer than the HN comment window before I feel comfortable drawing any conclusions, so I'm not sure how I'll follow up on this. Perhaps I'll post something at https://smichel.me/castiron (currently this page does not exist).
You asked if I could look at this in a different part of this comment thread.
What you say seems more or less correct to me. I think if you approach cast iron that way, you will have good results.
Basically, you don't want the pan to look "not-oiled", and how much effort you need to put into that depends on how much you are removing the existing oil during the cooking process.
I think the "looks oily" test is the proper determinant for if the cast iron is in good shape. Trying to develop a "seasoning" layer is likely to just cause frustration.
What you say seems more or less correct to me. I think if you approach cast iron that way, you will have good results.
Basically, you don't want the pan to look "not-oiled", and how much effort you need to put into that depends on how much you are removing the existing oil during the cooking process.
I think the "looks oily" test is the proper determinant for if the cast iron is in good shape. Trying to develop a "seasoning" layer is likely to just cause frustration.
1 and 2 are a contradiction
Hm, you're right, thanks for pointing this out. There was no contraction in what I meant, but I didn't express what I meant correctly.
They don't conflict if the seasoning is already damaged (during cooking) before cleaning it. Cleaning with soap would not repair it at all (thus, reseasoning is required), whereas if you don't use soap, the pan is reseasoned in the same step as drying it on the stove.
Part of the problem was that I was overloading the word "reseasoning" to also refer to doing it in an explicit step (ie, the wiping on/off of oil) as well as the effect of rebuilding the layer of seasoning.
I've edited my post to hopefully be more clear.
They don't conflict if the seasoning is already damaged (during cooking) before cleaning it. Cleaning with soap would not repair it at all (thus, reseasoning is required), whereas if you don't use soap, the pan is reseasoned in the same step as drying it on the stove.
Part of the problem was that I was overloading the word "reseasoning" to also refer to doing it in an explicit step (ie, the wiping on/off of oil) as well as the effect of rebuilding the layer of seasoning.
I've edited my post to hopefully be more clear.
It seems like flax is popular amongst newcomers - I don't know if I've heard anyone who swears by it or says it's what their grandparents used.
I think you've mis-read (in fairness, my phrasing was confusing). My comment was about the flax article (http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-te...), not the oil.
Past the initial seasoning, I've found that just using the pan helps a lot. My problem has been that I've a lot of rough (and very hard) cruft built up on the outside and the upper part of inside of the pan.
+1 on the squirt bottle of oil, I started doing that a few years ago and it was game-changing. Previously I'd just pour a little out of the original bottle when I was cooking, which was a lot less convenient than having something appropriately sized and within arms reach.
+1 on the squirt bottle of oil, I started doing that a few years ago and it was game-changing. Previously I'd just pour a little out of the original bottle when I was cooking, which was a lot less convenient than having something appropriately sized and within arms reach.
Yes, I didn't say it above, but the best thing you can do, maintenance-wise, is just use the pan. Anything that makes that harder (requiring unusual ingredients, making cleaning harder) is a net negative. Anything that makes it easier (having oil at hand, soap and sponge to clean it) makes it better.
> You really shouldn't buy a special oil just [for] seasoning your cast iron and carbon steel. It's not necessary.
Source: lack of historic availability of avocado oil in the South
Source: lack of historic availability of avocado oil in the South
Agree with everything except the oil. I use Avocado a lot for cooking but not on a brand new pan. I've certainly tried to season with it specifically when I was new, but find it flaky and cumbersome.
I find fatty meats(bacon, sausage) or just canned lard to work absolutely best for seasoning. It's also what our ancestors used before they probably even knew what an avocado was. For a vegan, I'd assume shortening is ok as well, but I've never actually tested that.
I find fatty meats(bacon, sausage) or just canned lard to work absolutely best for seasoning. It's also what our ancestors used before they probably even knew what an avocado was. For a vegan, I'd assume shortening is ok as well, but I've never actually tested that.
Rather than soap, I use a pampered chef plastic scraper (It’s for stone ware; don’t know any other name for it), and a stainless steel scouring pad (not steel wool; instead it’s coils of flat stainless steel tape or something). The scraper removes the bulk of stuff, keeping the scouring pad clean.
This is less effort than using soap, and more effective. The stainless smooths out any imperfections that form in the seasoning over time, and cooking with oil continuously reseasons it.
I found that I had to re-season my pans every 5-10 years if I used soap, and that the seasoning was an inferior cooking surface (more food stuck to it). With the technique I described above, I can cook eggs and they don’t stick. (be sure to preheat, use plenty of oil, and then don’t touch for a minute or two at the beginning of cooking)
This is less effort than using soap, and more effective. The stainless smooths out any imperfections that form in the seasoning over time, and cooking with oil continuously reseasons it.
I found that I had to re-season my pans every 5-10 years if I used soap, and that the seasoning was an inferior cooking surface (more food stuck to it). With the technique I described above, I can cook eggs and they don’t stick. (be sure to preheat, use plenty of oil, and then don’t touch for a minute or two at the beginning of cooking)
What I use is one of these pieces of chain mail (I don't know what this kitchen tool is actually called, "Ringer" is probably a brand name), but it's perfect for cleaning cast iron:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FKBR1ZG/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FKBR1ZG/
I also recommend buying a chainmail to clean the pans, instead of using soap. Amazon sells them for $10 https://www.amazon.com/cast-iron-chainmail/s?k=cast+iron+cha...
Cleaning gets much easier:
1. Rinse dirty pan out with some warm water 2. Clean the chunks and stuff that sticks to the pan with the chainmail 3. Rinse again under some warm water
That’s it. The oil from whatever you were cooking should still be on there; no need to put peanut or avocado oil on there unless you burnt it all off or cooked something acidic (use a different pan for that; you’ll learn).
Cleaning gets much easier:
1. Rinse dirty pan out with some warm water 2. Clean the chunks and stuff that sticks to the pan with the chainmail 3. Rinse again under some warm water
That’s it. The oil from whatever you were cooking should still be on there; no need to put peanut or avocado oil on there unless you burnt it all off or cooked something acidic (use a different pan for that; you’ll learn).
This doesnt sound easier. My process is I wash my pan with soap and water, with a sponge. I don't need special equipment. I don't need to oil it afterwards. There's enough seasoning, it's fine. I'm using oil next time I cook.
Other people seem to have a bigger problem with burnt-on bits than I do. I don't know why that is, but I'm inclined to trust my process.
Also I like washing all the cooking oil off so I don't have used oil sitting around going rancid. Surfactants are good for that.
Acidic stuff is also fine. If my pan looks thirsty afterwards, I've got the squirt bottle and paper towels, it's easy. Cast iron is the least sensitive, most versatile tool in my kitchen. I'm not babying it.
Other people seem to have a bigger problem with burnt-on bits than I do. I don't know why that is, but I'm inclined to trust my process.
Also I like washing all the cooking oil off so I don't have used oil sitting around going rancid. Surfactants are good for that.
Acidic stuff is also fine. If my pan looks thirsty afterwards, I've got the squirt bottle and paper towels, it's easy. Cast iron is the least sensitive, most versatile tool in my kitchen. I'm not babying it.
Do you have thoughts on cleaning burnt-on gunk?
I use cast iron and carbon steel for high-temperature cooking. If I really care about the non-stick-ness I'll usually use nonstick. But nonstick doesn't char well (and isn't safe). So when I want a serious sear or browning, I use iron & stell.
Problem is, if something burns on, it burns on hard. Soap doesn't really help. Water and scrubbing mostly do, but they don't completely get it off. I can't even tell when the remaining patina is seasoning and when it's just gunk -- until it becomes rough to the touch, in which case it's obvious, and I scrub hard.
I use cast iron and carbon steel for high-temperature cooking. If I really care about the non-stick-ness I'll usually use nonstick. But nonstick doesn't char well (and isn't safe). So when I want a serious sear or browning, I use iron & stell.
Problem is, if something burns on, it burns on hard. Soap doesn't really help. Water and scrubbing mostly do, but they don't completely get it off. I can't even tell when the remaining patina is seasoning and when it's just gunk -- until it becomes rough to the touch, in which case it's obvious, and I scrub hard.
Deglaze. Heat it back up and add water. This should become less of a problem the better your seasoning is.
>Pick an oil with a high smoke point
This doesn't seem to agree with either experience or the scientific understanding of the polymerization process that needs to occur in a well seasoned cast iron pan.
This doesn't seem to agree with either experience or the scientific understanding of the polymerization process that needs to occur in a well seasoned cast iron pan.
Why high smoke point?
The best oil for seasoning is flaxseed oil, which has very low smoke point. I mean you can use high smoke points oils, but you want your oil to start smoking.
I used avocado, coconut and flaxseed oils for seasoning - flaxseed is the easiest and delivered best results IMO. Plus it's nice oil for salads and some smoothies. It's not a "special" oil.
As for soap, I used it from time to time. However, why my pans are at the peak of seasoning - there is just no need to use soap.
The best oil for seasoning is flaxseed oil, which has very low smoke point. I mean you can use high smoke points oils, but you want your oil to start smoking.
I used avocado, coconut and flaxseed oils for seasoning - flaxseed is the easiest and delivered best results IMO. Plus it's nice oil for salads and some smoothies. It's not a "special" oil.
As for soap, I used it from time to time. However, why my pans are at the peak of seasoning - there is just no need to use soap.
Great article, just one thing I don't quite understand: vintage vs modern cast iron pans.
I get his point about the older ones having smooth(er) finish due to production methods change, but what stops SOME modern manufacturers to do the same? Surely for a community that is essentially a cult, there should be enough people buying it to worth the additional manufacturing cost?
I get his point about the older ones having smooth(er) finish due to production methods change, but what stops SOME modern manufacturers to do the same? Surely for a community that is essentially a cult, there should be enough people buying it to worth the additional manufacturing cost?
> what stops SOME modern manufacturers to do the same?
I believe there are manufacturers filling that niche now. Field [0] is one that I'm aware of. I think there are four or five others.
[0] https://fieldcompany.com/
I believe there are manufacturers filling that niche now. Field [0] is one that I'm aware of. I think there are four or five others.
[0] https://fieldcompany.com/
Now that you mention it (and I hope everybody sees this, but they probably won't since I'm late to this discussion), Field has what I think is the best advice I've seen on how to season cast iron cookware:
https://fieldcompany.com/pages/how-to-season-cast-iron-pan-s...
Oven seasoning instructions:
https://fieldcompany.com/pages/how-to-season-cast-iron-pan-s...
How to care for cast iron cookware:
https://fieldcompany.com/pages/how-to-clean-maintain-cast-ir...
https://fieldcompany.com/pages/how-to-season-cast-iron-pan-s...
Oven seasoning instructions:
https://fieldcompany.com/pages/how-to-season-cast-iron-pan-s...
How to care for cast iron cookware:
https://fieldcompany.com/pages/how-to-clean-maintain-cast-ir...
Butterpat Industries is another.
I have one of their pans and it's excellent.
I have one of their pans and it's excellent.
Turns out, there are some: https://www.foodandwine.com/lifestyle/kitchen/the-real-reaso...
There are, as others pointed out, but they are a lot more expensive. I used an angle grinder with a sanding disc on my cheap Lodge to get a similar effect.
Peanut oil has a flavor. Safflower and sunflower oils have higher temperature and no flavor.
Been using safflower for over 20 years on my day-use skillet.
Been using safflower for over 20 years on my day-use skillet.
On the soap thing, I think a dishwasher is not OK since the soap is harsher. Can anyone confirm? I know there's also a risk of letting it sit and dry (i.e. rust) but that can be managed.
I wouldn't use a dishwasher. I can't speak to the soap harshness but yes, you don't want to soak that long.
"Pick an oil with a high smoke point, a neutral taste"
This sounds somewhat like "special" to me.
This sounds somewhat like "special" to me.
You probably want a neutral oil for salad dressings, or mayonnaise. You want a high smoke point for any frying(deep, shallow, or stir) you'll do. Every grocery store I've been in has peanut, canola, or avocado, which will all do.
This is a difference in semantic understanding I think. When I hear "you don't need a special oil" I understand that to mean "any oil will do", which isn't really the case.
I did it once. Flaked like crazy. Never again.
I read somewhere a year or two ago that basically compared cast iron to wood, which has helped my intuition of things a lot.
Here is a blog post [0] I read a few months ago about wood finishes. I think the following applies just as much to cast iron as to the wood he is talking about:
Teflon will be great to cook on initially. As soon as it gets damaged, it will be hard to fix without stripping and redoing everything.
Oil will take more maintenance over time, but if it starts looking bad, you just put a bit more on. That's exactly how you should treat cast iron as well.
The trouble people run into is they try to use oil to create a teflon surface. That's not what it's for.
[0] https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/11/30/rip-the-anarchists-...
Here is a blog post [0] I read a few months ago about wood finishes. I think the following applies just as much to cast iron as to the wood he is talking about:
So, when I choose a finish, I ignore the industry-standard scratch and adhesion tests. Instead, I separate finishes into two buckets:
1. Finishes that look incredible immediately but look like crap in 20 years (the short-run finishes) vs. finishes that look incredible when worn/abused (the long-run finishes).
2. Finishes that want me dead vs. finishes that I can apply while buck naked.
Teflon will be great to cook on initially. As soon as it gets damaged, it will be hard to fix without stripping and redoing everything.
Oil will take more maintenance over time, but if it starts looking bad, you just put a bit more on. That's exactly how you should treat cast iron as well.
The trouble people run into is they try to use oil to create a teflon surface. That's not what it's for.
[0] https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/11/30/rip-the-anarchists-...
Chris Schwarz! I used to read his blog all the time, it's great.
Indeed. I was introduced to him via his appearances on the Woodwrights Shop. I really appreciate the publishing work he does. We've bought I think five or six books from Lost Art Press, and I'm sure there are more to come.
[deleted]
Mentioning a couple hypotheses (drying oils make for better seasonings) with a couple hypothesized mechanisms does not make this a science based approach. A science based approach (in this particular chemical context) would involve controlled experiments (off the top of my head, what about the roughness of the cast iron? Carbon content? Time to warm up the oven? Why six layers and not twelve? Etc etc). Claims like "youbneed to use 100% pure oil, I think that's why it might not be working for you" would not be present - science based involves testing that hypothesis and seeing if the purity or brand or whatever of the oil matters There! There would be some key metrics to measure, such as some molecular analysis of the residue, some test for non-stick ability, and perhaps a longevity test.
It might seem like a bit much, but this is an article presenting the conclusions of "science" as recommendations to pursue in your every day life, and a lack of scientific rigor can create false confidence in false solutions. For something as complex as polymerization in the varied environment of home cast iron seasoning, there's an enormous amount of work and confounding factors you would need to sift through (seasoning on the stove vs oven?). Without that rigor, you might have stumbled into the best way of doing things, but as other comments suggest, its more likely your lack of rigor has led to missing things like the seasonings tendency to flake.
It might seem like a bit much, but this is an article presenting the conclusions of "science" as recommendations to pursue in your every day life, and a lack of scientific rigor can create false confidence in false solutions. For something as complex as polymerization in the varied environment of home cast iron seasoning, there's an enormous amount of work and confounding factors you would need to sift through (seasoning on the stove vs oven?). Without that rigor, you might have stumbled into the best way of doing things, but as other comments suggest, its more likely your lack of rigor has led to missing things like the seasonings tendency to flake.
Most popular "food science" falls into this trap, as far as I've seen. Even my preferred resources such as seriouseats or America's Test Kitchen.
A teaspoon of vodka in the dough makes the pie crust flakier? At the very least it seems like one could say "we cooked 5 pies each way, and a blind taste test found that 4/5 tasters rated the batter with vodka as flakier".
That seems like the minimum amount of effort to call something scientific. It doesn't require any specialized equipment or training. We're not even getting into detailed methodology, or significance testing. Yet still, even the best sources I see make completely opaque claims such as "we found reverse creaming makes the cake more dense and buttery, while traditional creaming results in a traditional fluffy cake".
A teaspoon of vodka in the dough makes the pie crust flakier? At the very least it seems like one could say "we cooked 5 pies each way, and a blind taste test found that 4/5 tasters rated the batter with vodka as flakier".
That seems like the minimum amount of effort to call something scientific. It doesn't require any specialized equipment or training. We're not even getting into detailed methodology, or significance testing. Yet still, even the best sources I see make completely opaque claims such as "we found reverse creaming makes the cake more dense and buttery, while traditional creaming results in a traditional fluffy cake".
An aside: America’s Test Kitchen “Best Recipes” book taught me how to cook in my early twenties. Having a page or two of “we tried this, hated this, liked this tweak, so that’s why we do...” helped tremendously in learning how/why recipe design and cooking technique matter.
Honestly the only works that I have seen that comes close is the Modernist Cuisine, a lot of effort went into the why and how of cooking and the culinary arts.
As I mentioned in my other comment in this thread, the linked article goes in the step in the right direction by having hypotheses at all. That's why this article remains so influential despite its hypothesis (flax oil makes for better seasoning) having been disproved.
If someone wants to dethrone this article, they need to do it with more/better science to support an alternative hypothesis (e.g. a recommendation for a different oil). Without this, it is impossible to establish the credibility of different recommendations.
If someone wants to dethrone this article, they need to do it with more/better science to support an alternative hypothesis (e.g. a recommendation for a different oil). Without this, it is impossible to establish the credibility of different recommendations.
It then takes a step in the wrong direction by presenting the hypothesis as a scientific conclusion. Everyone has a hypothesis. Having a hypothesis doesn't make it special or science based. Every anecdote driven article is presenting a hypothesis, and an awful lot of them Couch their anecdotes in potential scientific explanations to sound more credible. Theres not a need to do "more" science - there's a need to do basically any science. I'll grant that the societal context means that someone has to do more work and then present their findings in an equally engaging way (with the necessary anecdotes etc), but science based?
I think there is a habit in popular literature to equate "science" with "facts obtained by reading scientific and/or engineering literature." Hence all the talk about polymerization or drying oils etc. They did not mean to imply "scientific-method-based."
How to season cast iron:
Cook with it. Use oil / fat.
Honestly, cast iron is about the most forgiving cooking surface you will find. People love to make it more difficult than it is.
Edit:
Some additional tips on cast iron:
Setting 4 / 10 (slightly below medium) is the default heat setting, and you have to really have something specific in mind to ever go above 5. I find that people who are used to teflon pans like to go up into the medium-high range. Things don't end well up there with cast iron.
Also buy a metal spatula. You aren't going to hurt anything, and it will be a more satisfying cooking experience. Plastic + cast iron is just going to leave you with a melted spatula. There used to be a ubiquitous metal spatula design, but I can never find them anymore. I've found it is much better to use something small like a cake / bar server than something big like a grilling spatula.
Don't cook on cold cast iron. The trick my mom showed me is you always wait until a splash of water (get your fingers wet and flick it on the pan) will start boiling on contact. If it boils into nothing immediately, you are too hot. If it just sits there and does nothing, you aren't hot enough yet.
Cook with it. Use oil / fat.
Honestly, cast iron is about the most forgiving cooking surface you will find. People love to make it more difficult than it is.
Edit:
Some additional tips on cast iron:
Setting 4 / 10 (slightly below medium) is the default heat setting, and you have to really have something specific in mind to ever go above 5. I find that people who are used to teflon pans like to go up into the medium-high range. Things don't end well up there with cast iron.
Also buy a metal spatula. You aren't going to hurt anything, and it will be a more satisfying cooking experience. Plastic + cast iron is just going to leave you with a melted spatula. There used to be a ubiquitous metal spatula design, but I can never find them anymore. I've found it is much better to use something small like a cake / bar server than something big like a grilling spatula.
Don't cook on cold cast iron. The trick my mom showed me is you always wait until a splash of water (get your fingers wet and flick it on the pan) will start boiling on contact. If it boils into nothing immediately, you are too hot. If it just sits there and does nothing, you aren't hot enough yet.
Cook with it.
Exactly. No reason at all for all of these crazy rituals involving 42 different kinds of oil (2 or 3 of which are made of Unobtanium anyway), ovens, salt, baking soda, owl urine, black cats, graveyard dirt, the Necronomicon, or whatever other weird shit people are throwing out there. Just cook with the darn thing. I don't know why people feel the need to overcomplicate this.
Exactly. No reason at all for all of these crazy rituals involving 42 different kinds of oil (2 or 3 of which are made of Unobtanium anyway), ovens, salt, baking soda, owl urine, black cats, graveyard dirt, the Necronomicon, or whatever other weird shit people are throwing out there. Just cook with the darn thing. I don't know why people feel the need to overcomplicate this.
> Also buy a metal spatula.
Without sharp corners. You will cut the polymerization layer otherwise, if not careful.
> Don't cook on cold cast iron.
You literally can't cook on cold metal. :)
Dancing water is too hot for some things, IMHO, like eggs. Once it is that hot I'm past the point of good eggs.
I put the oil in and bring it up slowly until the oil runs faster than cold oil, but way, way, way before the smoke point. I like my eggs to have zero brown crisp, so I use low temps and a good olive oil. Also have to use fresh eggs so that the white doesn't spread more the 4-5". On a good day with good eggs if I'm paying attention, I get a perfecty-set white with no brown crisp, and a slow-run yolk with no cooked bits, and after one quick flip to the top to sear the yolk. Perfection.
Without sharp corners. You will cut the polymerization layer otherwise, if not careful.
> Don't cook on cold cast iron.
You literally can't cook on cold metal. :)
Dancing water is too hot for some things, IMHO, like eggs. Once it is that hot I'm past the point of good eggs.
I put the oil in and bring it up slowly until the oil runs faster than cold oil, but way, way, way before the smoke point. I like my eggs to have zero brown crisp, so I use low temps and a good olive oil. Also have to use fresh eggs so that the white doesn't spread more the 4-5". On a good day with good eggs if I'm paying attention, I get a perfecty-set white with no brown crisp, and a slow-run yolk with no cooked bits, and after one quick flip to the top to sear the yolk. Perfection.
> If it boils into nothing immediately, you are too hot. If it just sits there and does nothing, you aren't hot enough yet.
That is actually slightly misleading due to the Leidenfrost effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect
That is actually slightly misleading due to the Leidenfrost effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect
A drop of water affected by the Leidenfrost effect looks different from one in a too cold pan.
If I'm doing something that requires a ripping hot pan, one that's actually hot enough for the Leidenfrost effect is where I am for. This usually requires that I use a high smoke point oil, like refined peanut oil.
If I'm doing something that requires a ripping hot pan, one that's actually hot enough for the Leidenfrost effect is where I am for. This usually requires that I use a high smoke point oil, like refined peanut oil.
It could be, but in practice I've found that you can tell the difference between "too hot" and "still cold" very easily.
This is what I think too. I bought my cast iron pan for $15. I use the heck out of it, and I don't think about seasoning one second. If I need to cook something that will stick, I put oil or butter on it, and I wash the pan afterwards. Even my stainless steel pans, I use them as I like without worrying about anything. I use oil/butter when I need to, and then wash. What I love most about both is that I scrub it with SOS pad if something gets caked on. I don't know why people are so concerned about "seasoning" the pan. My All-clad frying pan was $100, I've had it for a few years now, lots of scratch and dents but who cares? I'll probably use it for a long time and not think about replacing them. They are indestructible and even if I had to replace them, it wasn't an arm and a leg.
> Setting 4 / 10 (slightly below medium) is the default heat setting, and you have to really have something specific in mind to ever go above 5
Do you do any chinese cooking with a carbon steel wok?
For stir frying you generally want things as hot as you can get them. I only have a Teflon wok, and my biggest problem with it is that it just doesn't get hot enough. The other problem is that Teflon really doesn't like very high temperatures, so I'm lucky if a wok lasts a year before bits are peeling off. I've always been put off a carbon steel wok though, because of all the faffing about with seasoning, but reading some of the comments here it might be simpler just to wash and oil it after every use.
Do you do any chinese cooking with a carbon steel wok?
For stir frying you generally want things as hot as you can get them. I only have a Teflon wok, and my biggest problem with it is that it just doesn't get hot enough. The other problem is that Teflon really doesn't like very high temperatures, so I'm lucky if a wok lasts a year before bits are peeling off. I've always been put off a carbon steel wok though, because of all the faffing about with seasoning, but reading some of the comments here it might be simpler just to wash and oil it after every use.
Heating Teflon to high temperatures and preparing food on it is a good way to get Teflon into your bloodstream.
You have to get to really high temperatures though. Like over 300 Celsius.
A stovetop cranked high should be able to achieve that though shouldn't it? Not something you can discount entirely.
300C is pretty damn high... that's like 500F. I generally cook on my grill to get to really high heat, and that is definitely at the high end of what I'd even do with the heat.
At that's the low-point for the effect. I'm not sure that commercial products necessarily all experience that reaction at that temperature.
That's above the smoke point of any oil I could imagine cooking with. While I'm sure you can't discount it entirely, I would not consider it something you would need to worry about unless you were throwing caution to the wind with your cooking process, or perhaps left your stove unattended.
At that's the low-point for the effect. I'm not sure that commercial products necessarily all experience that reaction at that temperature.
That's above the smoke point of any oil I could imagine cooking with. While I'm sure you can't discount it entirely, I would not consider it something you would need to worry about unless you were throwing caution to the wind with your cooking process, or perhaps left your stove unattended.
I recently bought my first carbon steel wok and just today I put in the time to properly season it. Naturally, this evening I did my first stir fry with it and it was a blast! Cleaning was pretty simple. After I had finished eating I put some water into it, got it boiling, and used the spatula to scrape of the crusty bits. Then I cleaned and rinsed it under running hot water with some support of a brush. After a bit of drying off back onto the stove set to high to dry - and to polymerise the remaining traces of cooking oil to reinforce the seasoning. Cool off a bit and then apply a very thin layer of oil for protection.
That might sound a lot, but it really only takes a few minutes!
I'll do this every time after using the wok. I expect it to be good for a very long time. There might be easier ways to achieve this, but that's what extensive research has taught me to do.
That might sound a lot, but it really only takes a few minutes!
I'll do this every time after using the wok. I expect it to be good for a very long time. There might be easier ways to achieve this, but that's what extensive research has taught me to do.
We had a non-stick wok that showed up one day somehow (now there's a dichotomy and abomination rolled into one) and it's starting to flake. I'm really strongly considering carbon steel as a replacement, I've hardly used cast iron either and think it's time to take the plunge and convert.
One tip to add that the cast iron griddle maker gave me in the manual was to avoid putting lots of cold water on it while it's hot. You can wash soon after cooking, but use hot water. Otherwise it can warp.
One tip to add that the cast iron griddle maker gave me in the manual was to avoid putting lots of cold water on it while it's hot. You can wash soon after cooking, but use hot water. Otherwise it can warp.
Right, I've read the same thing about avoiding that!
Talking about additional gotchas: Acidic foods will apparently eat into the seasoning, so one should be careful with those.
Talking about additional gotchas: Acidic foods will apparently eat into the seasoning, so one should be careful with those.
Yes I read about the acidic foods, I did see a test saying it's not a huge problem but you will need to re-season more often. It can also leech iron which is actually a good thing for most of us.
Anyway I took the plunge, carbon steel wok and cast iron pan are on their way. At least if I ruin them I can get a do-over unlike non-stick!
Anyway I took the plunge, carbon steel wok and cast iron pan are on their way. At least if I ruin them I can get a do-over unlike non-stick!
We have a Lodge cast iron wok [0].
That said, I don't know that I'd recommend it to anyone as we rarely use it.
I read somewhere that unless you have a commercial-grade gas range, you are unlikely to hit the temperatures needed to really properly cook with a thinner metal wok. Cast iron is supposed to be a bit of a compromise because it can hold the heat better, but you can't toss it around the way you would with a normal wok.
As to carbon steel, I'd say go for it. I think you'll find it a lot less fussy than you have been told.
Also, I'd say stir fry definitely qualifies under the "something specific" where you would want to use the high heat settings on the stove.
[0] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/product/cast-iron-wok?sku=P14W...
That said, I don't know that I'd recommend it to anyone as we rarely use it.
I read somewhere that unless you have a commercial-grade gas range, you are unlikely to hit the temperatures needed to really properly cook with a thinner metal wok. Cast iron is supposed to be a bit of a compromise because it can hold the heat better, but you can't toss it around the way you would with a normal wok.
As to carbon steel, I'd say go for it. I think you'll find it a lot less fussy than you have been told.
Also, I'd say stir fry definitely qualifies under the "something specific" where you would want to use the high heat settings on the stove.
[0] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/product/cast-iron-wok?sku=P14W...
Even with a gas range, you really need a wok burner for example I have an older Viking range and the wok is pretty much useless without this burner: https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/produc...
but you summation is pretty much correct, a wok is useless for most home ranges. The heat has to be directed up the walls of the wok for it to cook correctly.
but you summation is pretty much correct, a wok is useless for most home ranges. The heat has to be directed up the walls of the wok for it to cook correctly.
We have that Lodge cast iron wok too, but don't use it for stir-frying... very clumsy. Instead we use it for deep frying - a task for which it's better suited than any-other our other vessels.
We do our stir-frying on a regular 14 in carbon steel wok, nothing fancy. It does take a bit more oomph than most American gas stoves provide, but we've had good results by ponying up for a Bluestar range [0] which outputs 25K BTU/h ... well short of what you see in Chinese restaurants, but on par with Western commercial stoves.
Actual Asian households don't generally cook on fancy restaurant stoves, and yet somehow manage to stir-fry satisfactorily. The trick is they use propane, which has about twice the energy density of natural gas. So it's a lot more effective (and cost-effective) to use a turkey fryer/crab boil burner to do your stir-frying, if you can swing it.
[0] https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/rangetops/36-platinu...
We do our stir-frying on a regular 14 in carbon steel wok, nothing fancy. It does take a bit more oomph than most American gas stoves provide, but we've had good results by ponying up for a Bluestar range [0] which outputs 25K BTU/h ... well short of what you see in Chinese restaurants, but on par with Western commercial stoves.
Actual Asian households don't generally cook on fancy restaurant stoves, and yet somehow manage to stir-fry satisfactorily. The trick is they use propane, which has about twice the energy density of natural gas. So it's a lot more effective (and cost-effective) to use a turkey fryer/crab boil burner to do your stir-frying, if you can swing it.
[0] https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/rangetops/36-platinu...
Agreed.
The advantage of cast iron is that you just cook on it and over time (if it isn't already seasoned) it seasons itself. That's all there has to be to it... fussing over how you season it and then throwing whatever food in there seems a little silly.
I cook a great deal and once in a while it's time to scrape down (often because I made a big mess in the pan) the cast iron pan and 'start over'.
My starting over just means ... I clean it thoroughly, oil it a bit when I cook on it the next time. That's it. Pretty quickly it will be plenty seasoned.
If folks want to take a deep dive into seasoning their cast iron pan in a complicated fashion, awesome, but it's really not necessarily.
The advantage of cast iron is that you just cook on it and over time (if it isn't already seasoned) it seasons itself. That's all there has to be to it... fussing over how you season it and then throwing whatever food in there seems a little silly.
I cook a great deal and once in a while it's time to scrape down (often because I made a big mess in the pan) the cast iron pan and 'start over'.
My starting over just means ... I clean it thoroughly, oil it a bit when I cook on it the next time. That's it. Pretty quickly it will be plenty seasoned.
If folks want to take a deep dive into seasoning their cast iron pan in a complicated fashion, awesome, but it's really not necessarily.
My cast iron set is 20 years old now and used almost every day. One thing cast iron isn't good for is when you have to change temps mid cooking. If doing something that needs mid heat then going to low heat cast iron will fail you as it won't go to the lower heat easily.
When oiling the pans take the time to try to wipe out all the oil you applied. This leaves just a tiny layer of oil and your pans won't get sticky. I clean with diluted Dawn and a sponge - dry on burner - then oil / wipe out each use.
When oiling the pans take the time to try to wipe out all the oil you applied. This leaves just a tiny layer of oil and your pans won't get sticky. I clean with diluted Dawn and a sponge - dry on burner - then oil / wipe out each use.
Carbon steel gang here, I just cook with it, if the coat flakes then I just keep cooking with it. Run under hot water when I'm done, scraping with a dish brush.
I don't see the point to the perfect coating; occasionally using it in the oven already gets you to the perfect slick season.
I don't see the point to the perfect coating; occasionally using it in the oven already gets you to the perfect slick season.
My dish brush gets really yucky with this method (not using dish soap). Greasy and soot:y. Do you just not care about this issue or do you spend some time cleaning it afterwards?
i chuck it in the dishwasher, comes out brand new! try it. It'd even "reanneal" the plastic if that's the right term lol. The bent brushes will return to it's virgin position, try it!
My mom top me to just toss it in after she saw my year-old crusty brush. It was seriously like brand new!
I usually scrap my cast iron with a plastic scraper before I start with the dish brush. Soap and warm water help too, while you're doing the initial scrape.
I find that my skillet comes out really nice when I make a batch of cornbread. You grease it real good and get it hot before pouring in the batter, and during cooking the right amount is absorbed by the cornbread. This leaves behind a hard slick surface.
Using high heat on Teflon pans can also end badly, particularly if you have birds. http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/other-pets/teflon-bird-guid....
That my view - a quick dip in warm water with a bit of soap and lightly whip of any bits and let it dry.
Ill try the water test next time
Ill try the water test next time
Completely agree. My "pre-seasoned" cast iron from Target was the best purchase I ever made.
Dollar stores are still carrying metal spatulas
It takes months of continuous use to develop a great seasoning by just cooking. Or you can accomplish the same in an afternoon.
The youtube algorithm decided it needed to recommend a whole hose of cast iron videos to me over Christmas and they kept repeating this.
So I went and washed my skillet down to a matte surface, rubbed oil into it, and cooked an egg. Worked perfectly fine.
You won't ever get the "slippery" coating like with a teflon pan, but I also find cooking on that type of surface to be absolutely maddening since any time you try to chop or scoop in such a pan, the food just slides out from under you and you have to chase it about.
I want my food to "not stick" in the same way that a book doesn't stick to a table. I don't want an ice rink.
So I went and washed my skillet down to a matte surface, rubbed oil into it, and cooked an egg. Worked perfectly fine.
You won't ever get the "slippery" coating like with a teflon pan, but I also find cooking on that type of surface to be absolutely maddening since any time you try to chop or scoop in such a pan, the food just slides out from under you and you have to chase it about.
I want my food to "not stick" in the same way that a book doesn't stick to a table. I don't want an ice rink.
You might be confused as to what the seasoning is. You can't just wash it away. It takes something like oven cleaner to strip it.
Many, if not most, pans today come preseason-ed. And they do it exactly like in the article: a very hot oven and oil with a high smoke point.
Many, if not most, pans today come preseason-ed. And they do it exactly like in the article: a very hot oven and oil with a high smoke point.
Well, my cast iron was a wedding present that my grandparents got in the 40s, so it didn't come "preseasoned", but it's also had 70-odd years of continuous use.
It's probably got "seasoning" on it, but it also is not at all "seasoned" in the sense that for example this article or the person I was replying to is meaning.
It's probably got "seasoning" on it, but it also is not at all "seasoned" in the sense that for example this article or the person I was replying to is meaning.
So it has 70 years of seasoning! I bet it works great. The whole point of the article is to take a newer pan and make it perform like yours, without needing 70 years of use.
Agreed, would add just don’t scrub off your seasoning with soap/scouring pad.
Meanwhile, I have a chain cloth that I use when cleaning to make sure no food is left behind. Remarkably hard to actually get the seasoning off.
Granted, if you still use soap that warrants the use of heavy plastic gloves, probably a bit easier.
Granted, if you still use soap that warrants the use of heavy plastic gloves, probably a bit easier.
Soap is fine anytime, scouring pad is never fine unless you're deliberately trying to scrub off the seasoning for some reason.
There's basically no science in this "science-based how-to".
This was the article which started the flaxseed oil cast-iron fad. I think that has now faded: apparently flaxseed oil has a tendency to deteriorate and flake off over time.
This was the article which started the flaxseed oil cast-iron fad. I think that has now faded: apparently flaxseed oil has a tendency to deteriorate and flake off over time.
There's basically no science -- in the broad sense of hypothesis testing -- around cast iron at all. It's all tribal knowledge. "I do it this way because that's how my grandma did it and it works for me." That's fine enough, but it makes for a frustrating experience as a newcomer with no way to evaluate the credibility of different sources; it's just everyone's word against everyone else.
This is especially confusing given how long cast iron has been around; you'd think that someone would have taken an interest in cataloguing what actually works, by now.
So while this post may not be good science, or very much of it, I still appreciate that it exists.
This is especially confusing given how long cast iron has been around; you'd think that someone would have taken an interest in cataloguing what actually works, by now.
So while this post may not be good science, or very much of it, I still appreciate that it exists.
I think the confounder is that cast iron is just rather resilient and cooking is dominated by other choices and technologies. Such that much of what folks think were needed just didn't matter.
The page linked in another top comment is worth reading in full.
The page linked in another top comment is worth reading in full.
I can confirm, I’ve tried flaxseed (based on this article and other ancedata) and while the seasoning came out really nice after 6 months or so it has started to flake and after a year it looks really bad.
Agreed. This article started a fad when it came out 10 years ago, and now everybody agrees flaxseed oil is a bad choice, "science-based" as this may claim to be.
How the heck do you get a thick enough layer to flake off?
For me, it all just came off when washing it, 6 months or a year after seasoning. The sponge was filled with black flecks. Seems like once you get a defect in the surface, it fails catastrophically. With more traditional seasoning oils, the seasoning gets thinner gradually as it's abraded away.
[deleted]
This seasoning fad is some post-teflon madness IMO, after weeks of trying a dozen odd formulas there was always someone with another oil or temperature setting. Might as well be working on inertial confinement.
Agreed, please don’t season with flaxseed oil — it doesn’t last. Obsession over the smoke point is unfounded, you just want polymerization and carbonization, which any unsaturated fat coated in a thin layer will do for your cast iron.
I did the flaxseed thing when this blog post came out some years back and ended up having to redo my seasoning on the couple pans I tried it on. The seasoning easily flaked off. Just use canola oil and call it a day.
I did the flaxseed thing when this blog post came out some years back and ended up having to redo my seasoning on the couple pans I tried it on. The seasoning easily flaked off. Just use canola oil and call it a day.
Yes it seems like a very flawed assumption to assume that the other uses of linseed oil would make flaxseed oil a perfect candidate. I've never tried it. Personally I just use canola oil but it can leave a sticky residue as the author says. It lessens if I heat it for a longer time, but I just store it wrapped in a cloth anyway.
Indeed, no science at all here--only conjecture.
I find these how-tos boggling. It's not that difficult to season cast iron cookware. Just cook on it. Same thing with soldering - there are countless videos of people teaching others on how to solder. If you can wear clothes that morning, you can solder.
Also, what if I told you its ok to use soap on cast iron pans? The hardened coating isn't prone to soap interaction. It removes all the grime and gives you a clean non-stick surface if you use soap.
I blame all this on hipster culture which is based on nothing but making things more complicated than it should be, getting viewership and generally misleading people into thinking something is more difficult that it really is. In turn, making people spend more money on useless shit that they don't need.
Also, what if I told you its ok to use soap on cast iron pans? The hardened coating isn't prone to soap interaction. It removes all the grime and gives you a clean non-stick surface if you use soap.
I blame all this on hipster culture which is based on nothing but making things more complicated than it should be, getting viewership and generally misleading people into thinking something is more difficult that it really is. In turn, making people spend more money on useless shit that they don't need.
The no-soap rule came from back when soap contained lye, which does indeed strip the seasoning from cast iron. This knowledge was passed down, and became false as soap changed formulas. Not because of "hipster culture", by which I think you mean consumerism. Try to have an open mind.
> If you can wear clothes that morning, you can solder.
I got a good kick out of this.
I got a good kick out of this.
2020 taught me a lot more about cooking than I ever would have gone out of my way to learn on my own.
I've never cooked with what I imagine to be a perfect seasoning on my skillet. I just cook with it.
I sorta wonder if there's a kind of placebo effect. When you really think about your tools, you notice lots of little things to do better (or I did anyway).
Getting the pan hot enough, and being aware of what parts are hotter, like the ring where the burner heats the skillet, had a huge impact on stuff "sticking" I don't know if the heat helps seal up little micro holes and cracks, so food doesn't grab onto those edges. Or perhaps The moisture turns to steam and creates a little gap, letting food sort of float above the pan, never really making contact. Maybe both.
Just a tiny bit of lubrication helps so much as well. A spray of pam or a few drops of oil work wonders.
With a good understanding of heat and lubrication, I feel sorta like I could cook eggs on a pie pan over a burner, and they won't stick.
I wonder how much is seasoning, and how much is understanding how the tools work, inside and out, to get desired outcomes.
I've never cooked with what I imagine to be a perfect seasoning on my skillet. I just cook with it.
I sorta wonder if there's a kind of placebo effect. When you really think about your tools, you notice lots of little things to do better (or I did anyway).
Getting the pan hot enough, and being aware of what parts are hotter, like the ring where the burner heats the skillet, had a huge impact on stuff "sticking" I don't know if the heat helps seal up little micro holes and cracks, so food doesn't grab onto those edges. Or perhaps The moisture turns to steam and creates a little gap, letting food sort of float above the pan, never really making contact. Maybe both.
Just a tiny bit of lubrication helps so much as well. A spray of pam or a few drops of oil work wonders.
With a good understanding of heat and lubrication, I feel sorta like I could cook eggs on a pie pan over a burner, and they won't stick.
I wonder how much is seasoning, and how much is understanding how the tools work, inside and out, to get desired outcomes.
the thing about cooking is there are often many different ways to achieve the same outcome. a cast iron skillet with an even layer of seasoning has noticeably better (to me, at least) nonstick properties than the same skillet with a half-assed seasoning on it. but the former takes a lot more time/effort and it really doesn't matter if you just add an extra pad of butter. with enough cooking fat, eggs will slide around any skillet as if it were an ice rink.
This is a great example of a topic that has been taken over by “internet experts”
Talk about over-complicating the treatment of cookware that has been around for hundreds of years.
I have about 8 pieces of cast iron cookware, but I really only use one: my grandmothers pan. It’s not a fancy brand, it’s 65 years old, and it just works.
My mother never used it because “it was hard to clean and heavy”.
Use a little oil with it and stuff doesn’t really stick. I can cook lbs of bacon, make steaks, bake a whole chicken, sliced potatoes, make gravy, put an apple cobbler in the oven...
I use a metal spatula to scrape anything off (after boiling some water in it to loosen it up), or a lodge plastic scraper, and scrub it lightly with a sponge and a bit of dish soap. Don’t put it away wet. It’s simple.
Talk about over-complicating the treatment of cookware that has been around for hundreds of years.
I have about 8 pieces of cast iron cookware, but I really only use one: my grandmothers pan. It’s not a fancy brand, it’s 65 years old, and it just works.
My mother never used it because “it was hard to clean and heavy”.
Use a little oil with it and stuff doesn’t really stick. I can cook lbs of bacon, make steaks, bake a whole chicken, sliced potatoes, make gravy, put an apple cobbler in the oven...
I use a metal spatula to scrape anything off (after boiling some water in it to loosen it up), or a lodge plastic scraper, and scrub it lightly with a sponge and a bit of dish soap. Don’t put it away wet. It’s simple.
> I use a metal spatula to scrape anything off (after boiling some water in it to loosen it up), or a lodge plastic scraper, and scrub it lightly with a sponge and a bit of dish soap. Don’t put it away wet. It’s simple.
This is pretty much what I do, except I use a nylon brush instead of the scraper – same deal. I think the boiling water and brush are perfect because they leave just the right amount of oil still on the pan.
This is pretty much what I do, except I use a nylon brush instead of the scraper – same deal. I think the boiling water and brush are perfect because they leave just the right amount of oil still on the pan.
Contra to what most are saying here, I went through this laborious and stinky process of taking my pans down to bare metal and building them back up with flax oil a couple of years ago and got great results.
I did get poor performance after a few months and felt heartbroken over it, but fixed it with another approach that differs from received wisdom: use soap and a nylon scouring pad from time to time. That’s never damaged the seasoning, but removes any caked on burned bits of food that dull the pan. I read on /r/castiron that the idea of soap being damaging is a hold over from when lye based soap was commonly used for dishes. Modern dish detergent isn’t going to cause the same damage. The other thing that helped was getting a straight metal spatula to really scrape the pan which has resulted in a smoother surface over time.
I did get poor performance after a few months and felt heartbroken over it, but fixed it with another approach that differs from received wisdom: use soap and a nylon scouring pad from time to time. That’s never damaged the seasoning, but removes any caked on burned bits of food that dull the pan. I read on /r/castiron that the idea of soap being damaging is a hold over from when lye based soap was commonly used for dishes. Modern dish detergent isn’t going to cause the same damage. The other thing that helped was getting a straight metal spatula to really scrape the pan which has resulted in a smoother surface over time.
Nobody is saying you’ll definitely get bad results from this, but it is a large waste of time. I say this as someone who did the same thing, always struggled to figure out why I had problems, and had better results when I simply stopped babying it.
IMO your problem was likely the lack of washing. Soap and scrubbing will not damage your patina in any meaningful way. What washing does do is removes the caked on, half-polymerized bits that causes food to stick (and which creates a negative feedback loop of problems).
Your cast iron is not a precious flower. Your grandmother did not fret over the decision of which oil to use for optimal seasoning. Use it, abuse it, and clean it out like anything else when you’re done (if there’s visible residue). If you want, dry it out on the stove top afterward and wipe a thin layer of oil on to it.
IMO your problem was likely the lack of washing. Soap and scrubbing will not damage your patina in any meaningful way. What washing does do is removes the caked on, half-polymerized bits that causes food to stick (and which creates a negative feedback loop of problems).
Your cast iron is not a precious flower. Your grandmother did not fret over the decision of which oil to use for optimal seasoning. Use it, abuse it, and clean it out like anything else when you’re done (if there’s visible residue). If you want, dry it out on the stove top afterward and wipe a thin layer of oil on to it.
I agree, things improved when I liberally used soap, scrubbers, and sharp flat metal spatulas to scrape things clean.
But I also haven’t seen any flaking of the flax base seasoning like others have. With previous pans I have accidentally scrubbed down to bare metal. Maybe I was just starting with thrift store pans that had been too heavily babied, and the process of cooking off the layers of carbonized food and old seasoning and starting over helped regardless of which oil I used.
But I also haven’t seen any flaking of the flax base seasoning like others have. With previous pans I have accidentally scrubbed down to bare metal. Maybe I was just starting with thrift store pans that had been too heavily babied, and the process of cooking off the layers of carbonized food and old seasoning and starting over helped regardless of which oil I used.
Get a metal chain mail pot scrubber, it will change your life. Allows you to dislodge 95% of what’s stuck to your pan quickly and without a super abrasive cleaner, the rest can usually be taken care of with a paper towel.
"metal chain mail pot scrubber" ... "without a super abrasive cleaner"
Um.
Um.
Chain mail scrubbers are not very abrasive. This is because the links are rounded. As an extreme example, imagine trying to scrape off gunk with the rounded back of a spoon. I've used mine (gently!!) on teflon with no damage.
people tend to have the wrong intuition about scratching things. stainless steel is a fairly soft metal; it's really hard to damage seasoning with anything made of that material. but the green side of a scotchbrite sponge will scratch pretty much anything in your kitchen.
Just here to give a shout-out to any other people on this site who scrub their cast iron with soap and water after each use and live their lives in peace. I'm a high-octane computer professional and I don't have the time or predisposition to coddle large lumps of metal in the pursuit of an effect ("it doesn't stick!") that can be achieved by using cooking oil.
I've never quite understood how something that is supposed to be "don't give a shit", became something that hipsters/whoever gives many shits about.
it's important to understand that pretty much anything useful can also be someone's hobby. I don't really understand the pursuit of the perfect cast iron skillet either. I just want to cook some eggs. at the same time, I don't expect people to understand why I spend hours trying to find the lowest stable voltage for a 300 MHz overclock. if you just want to use the damn thing, ignore the hobbyists.
Well, I bought a cast iron skillet about 40 years ago at a local department store (remember them?). Can't remember seasoning it, but probably did way back in the day. I just wash it out with hot water and a bit of liquid soap and a scourer to remove the occasional bits. As good as teflon, cheaper and less poisonous. My favourite pan. I think the main thing is to use it a lot, and don't overclean it. The type of oil seems not to have mattered much, but it's mainly olive, sunflower or rapeseed. As always YMMV.
There's something amusing about cast iron lore that scares so many people away. So many folks - myself included before I actually started using it - think that you must properly season it or it'll rust up, and you'll never get it back. And that it takes so much effort to do just right. Honestly, it seems pretty hard to get wrong. My ~$20 Lodge skillet from Target has lasted eight years in the kitchen and camping, taking tons of abuse without any apparent wear.
I have a friend who literally didn't even scrape food off his pan when we was done cooking - just let it cool and put it away. When he took it out weeks later, it was green and fuzzy, and he just cranked up the heat until it smoked, and then scraped it clean. That's more than a bit extreme for me, but perhaps an example of how rugged it is.
I also really like my De Buyer high carbon steel skillet, but if I leave it out for 15 minutes without thoroughly drying it, it starts turning orange from rust. It's a bit finicky for me now that I've come to love my cast iron.
I have a friend who literally didn't even scrape food off his pan when we was done cooking - just let it cool and put it away. When he took it out weeks later, it was green and fuzzy, and he just cranked up the heat until it smoked, and then scraped it clean. That's more than a bit extreme for me, but perhaps an example of how rugged it is.
I also really like my De Buyer high carbon steel skillet, but if I leave it out for 15 minutes without thoroughly drying it, it starts turning orange from rust. It's a bit finicky for me now that I've come to love my cast iron.
> if I leave it out for 15 minutes without thoroughly drying it, it starts turning orange from rust
The thing cast iron has going for it is that it's black, and black hides a multitude of sins. I'd guess the orange isn't a huge deal, maybe it is though.
The thing cast iron has going for it is that it's black, and black hides a multitude of sins. I'd guess the orange isn't a huge deal, maybe it is though.
[deleted]
says >There's something amusing about cast iron lore that scares so many people away.<
No, it is simply a major PITA in the kitchen and no match whatsoever for teflon. It is such a PITA that the cast-iron venders are marketing "enameled cast-iron" which, of course, has a coating of enamel atop the cast-iron.
And get this: there are beaucoup WWW posts on "seasoning" the enamel!
No, it is simply a major PITA in the kitchen and no match whatsoever for teflon. It is such a PITA that the cast-iron venders are marketing "enameled cast-iron" which, of course, has a coating of enamel atop the cast-iron.
And get this: there are beaucoup WWW posts on "seasoning" the enamel!
Following the instructions from the manufacturer (fry a batch of potato peels very oily, salty and dark) years ago and then just using the pan ever since, doesn't really seem like a "major PITA" to me.
Incidentally, it's really good for flatbread :-)
Incidentally, it's really good for flatbread :-)
If curious see also
2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15915502
2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8611468
2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15915502
2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8611468
Yeah it's not needed, here's what I do after watching Cantonese cooks treat theirs.
Just buy this (obviously not at that price).
https://www.amazon.com/Sunrise-Kitchen-Supply-SYNCHKG102693-...
After cooking, while the cast iron is still hot, give it as little water as possible and just scrub all the food off.
rinse with plenty of water, by the end of cleaning it'd still be warm.
wipe dry then put it back on the stove I still use electric stove so it's still warm by then and residual heat will dry it.
Never needed to season... I use mostly lard/olive oil. Vegetable oil tends to leave a really nasty sludge that's really hard to clean so I stopped using them.
Just buy this (obviously not at that price).
https://www.amazon.com/Sunrise-Kitchen-Supply-SYNCHKG102693-...
After cooking, while the cast iron is still hot, give it as little water as possible and just scrub all the food off.
rinse with plenty of water, by the end of cleaning it'd still be warm.
wipe dry then put it back on the stove I still use electric stove so it's still warm by then and residual heat will dry it.
Never needed to season... I use mostly lard/olive oil. Vegetable oil tends to leave a really nasty sludge that's really hard to clean so I stopped using them.
Special $17 oil to season a pan, a multi day oven drying process, wtf?? I'm sort of baffled by this because I can buy a perfectly usable Lodge cast iron skillet for about $20 and not go through any of this nonsense. Is the inefficient recycling of old pans a thing now?
This is wrong, as someone very heavily invested in carbon skillets and iron skillets, people in the "seasoning community" (lol) literally hate this article because it spreads so much disinformation about flaxseed oil.
Seasoning seems to be the “all-natural” alternative for non-stick pans. However, have there been any studies on the substances typically produced and if they are dangerous long term?
It seems like taking and bunch of long chain fats, heating them up to high temperatures in cycles and then cooking all sorts of foods in that has a chance of producing carcinogenic molecules.
For the synthetic non-stick pans we have studies of their biological effects. I don’t think we have any studies for the patina that results from seasoning.
It seems like taking and bunch of long chain fats, heating them up to high temperatures in cycles and then cooking all sorts of foods in that has a chance of producing carcinogenic molecules.
For the synthetic non-stick pans we have studies of their biological effects. I don’t think we have any studies for the patina that results from seasoning.
The process is a reasonably straight-forward polymerization of unsaturated fatty acids. So yes, there will be some carcinogenic compounds created, you should not ingest too many of those.
However you have to remember that correctly seasoning an iron pan does not create a coating or a layer as such, the polymerized oil fills in the microscopic gaps in the metal and creates a smoother surface, with fewer irregularities that proteins and carbs can cling onto. The actual amount of polymerized oil left on a correctly seasoned pan is absolutely minuscule, so if anyone complains that their seasoning is flaking off, they tried to slather on a way too thick layer, treating it more like a paint or lacquer than a surface treatment.
Compare that to the teflon coating on a non-stick pan, which is an actual thickness of material bonded onto the metal surface of the pan, in fact sprayed on much like paint or powder coat, which is why it will eventually start flaking off.
Seasoning is not the burnt bits in the pan after you fry something, it's a process that binds polymerized fat molecules into the surface of the iron itself, which is why you can't simply scrub it out with dish soap. If you somehow can, it's just burnt bits, not seasoning. I had to take sand paper and a not insignificant amount of elbow grease to a second-hand cast iron pan I was stripping down, in order to get down to bare metal, but the actual amount of material I sanded off was less than a quarter teaspoon of black dust. That tells you something about how little material actually goes into seasoning cast iron, and how hard it bonds to the iron.
If you eat fried or grilled meat and enjoy that heavy maillard reaction on the surface, and especially if you like your BBQ sauce to get dark and sticky and aaaalmost burnt, you're already ingesting significantly more carcinogens than you would ever get from a cast iron pan.
However you have to remember that correctly seasoning an iron pan does not create a coating or a layer as such, the polymerized oil fills in the microscopic gaps in the metal and creates a smoother surface, with fewer irregularities that proteins and carbs can cling onto. The actual amount of polymerized oil left on a correctly seasoned pan is absolutely minuscule, so if anyone complains that their seasoning is flaking off, they tried to slather on a way too thick layer, treating it more like a paint or lacquer than a surface treatment.
Compare that to the teflon coating on a non-stick pan, which is an actual thickness of material bonded onto the metal surface of the pan, in fact sprayed on much like paint or powder coat, which is why it will eventually start flaking off.
Seasoning is not the burnt bits in the pan after you fry something, it's a process that binds polymerized fat molecules into the surface of the iron itself, which is why you can't simply scrub it out with dish soap. If you somehow can, it's just burnt bits, not seasoning. I had to take sand paper and a not insignificant amount of elbow grease to a second-hand cast iron pan I was stripping down, in order to get down to bare metal, but the actual amount of material I sanded off was less than a quarter teaspoon of black dust. That tells you something about how little material actually goes into seasoning cast iron, and how hard it bonds to the iron.
If you eat fried or grilled meat and enjoy that heavy maillard reaction on the surface, and especially if you like your BBQ sauce to get dark and sticky and aaaalmost burnt, you're already ingesting significantly more carcinogens than you would ever get from a cast iron pan.
at the risk of polluting the conversation with my $0.02 ... but maybe someone will find this useful:
I have a (found) cast-iron pan I'd basically given up on: thick, cracked, chipped coating. With a tiny kitchen, I'd stored it in my oven, and after baking a dozen or so loaves of bread while it was in there I discovered that the coating had almost completely burned off. I obsessively researched cast-iron seasoning (included Sheryl Canter's article), heard about the flaking flaxseed oil (not to mention the insane price of the stuff), and ultimately opted for high smoke-point grape seed oil ($4 @ Trader Joe's), the science-y logic being the goal of exceeding the smoke point at the highest possible temp, and indulged in $6 worth of lint-free (blue) shop towels (hardware store), and then:
1. preheat oven to ~ 200deg F; 2. give pan a vinegar/water bath (~50/50) for 30 minutes, then steel-wooled it for a minute to ensure it was down to the bone; 3. thoroughly dry ... and crank the oven to 450+; 4. using lint-free towel: thoroughly apply a coat of oil to the warmed pan, then wipe almost completely dry, then bake for about an hour; 5. apply another coat (yeah, silicone oven mitts), another wipe-off, another hour ... at most 3x;
The thing is now the gem I always wanted it to be; eggs slide around like on teflon. I wash after use in hottest water using a chainmail scrubber for any tiny stuck bits (almost none ever), and don't mind if there's a drop or two of dish soap. Dry thoroughly, on the fire for a minute to be sure, and then a quick wipe of oil - no re-seasoning, just protection. So the cleanup and maintenance is a bit of a ritual but for me it's well worth the performance.
I have a (found) cast-iron pan I'd basically given up on: thick, cracked, chipped coating. With a tiny kitchen, I'd stored it in my oven, and after baking a dozen or so loaves of bread while it was in there I discovered that the coating had almost completely burned off. I obsessively researched cast-iron seasoning (included Sheryl Canter's article), heard about the flaking flaxseed oil (not to mention the insane price of the stuff), and ultimately opted for high smoke-point grape seed oil ($4 @ Trader Joe's), the science-y logic being the goal of exceeding the smoke point at the highest possible temp, and indulged in $6 worth of lint-free (blue) shop towels (hardware store), and then:
1. preheat oven to ~ 200deg F; 2. give pan a vinegar/water bath (~50/50) for 30 minutes, then steel-wooled it for a minute to ensure it was down to the bone; 3. thoroughly dry ... and crank the oven to 450+; 4. using lint-free towel: thoroughly apply a coat of oil to the warmed pan, then wipe almost completely dry, then bake for about an hour; 5. apply another coat (yeah, silicone oven mitts), another wipe-off, another hour ... at most 3x;
The thing is now the gem I always wanted it to be; eggs slide around like on teflon. I wash after use in hottest water using a chainmail scrubber for any tiny stuck bits (almost none ever), and don't mind if there's a drop or two of dish soap. Dry thoroughly, on the fire for a minute to be sure, and then a quick wipe of oil - no re-seasoning, just protection. So the cleanup and maintenance is a bit of a ritual but for me it's well worth the performance.
Having a big thermal mass in the oven doesn't hurt, either.
Anecdotally I find soap strips the seasoning. When food gets stuck to the pan, it also technically becomes part of the pan in the sense the atoms of the food become bonded with the atoms of the pan, just like how seasoning technically becomes part of the pan.
When you use soap and put copious amounts of oil, and wait for the heat to release the food, of course it’s possible to cook, because the oil forms a barrier between the pan and food. You’re basically creating a half assed seasoning layer
However the notion that soap can unstick bonded food atoms but doesn’t also unstick bonded polymers is an oxymoron. You can still use soap, just know it will strip food and seasoning both. Even using metal scrubbers and metal utensils can strip the seasoning, in my experience, which is why I re-season frequently. Anecdotally acidic foods strip large amounts of seasoning, happened just the other day with taco seasoning for me.
I can definitely tell the difference between a good seasoning layer and a layer of oil simply poured. It’s better for the cooking process and better for the flavor to “properly” season in my subjective experience
When you use soap and put copious amounts of oil, and wait for the heat to release the food, of course it’s possible to cook, because the oil forms a barrier between the pan and food. You’re basically creating a half assed seasoning layer
However the notion that soap can unstick bonded food atoms but doesn’t also unstick bonded polymers is an oxymoron. You can still use soap, just know it will strip food and seasoning both. Even using metal scrubbers and metal utensils can strip the seasoning, in my experience, which is why I re-season frequently. Anecdotally acidic foods strip large amounts of seasoning, happened just the other day with taco seasoning for me.
I can definitely tell the difference between a good seasoning layer and a layer of oil simply poured. It’s better for the cooking process and better for the flavor to “properly” season in my subjective experience
You don't want bits of food stuck to the pan. Bits of food still stuck to the pan go bad. The oil that sticks as part of seasoning has much smaller molecules as it polymerizes, so you don't have bits of stuff that goes bad. If it comes up with soap, it's not bonded to the pan.
I never season my pans. Use soap, water, and aluminium foil (if food is baked on) to clean them. Dry in the oven to prevent rust.
A couple of times after I made eggs, I let the water sit for too long, and the pan got a bit rusty. No problem with cast iron! Just a bit of steel wool and it was as good as new.
A cast iron pan is the easiest pan you'll ever use.
A couple of times after I made eggs, I let the water sit for too long, and the pan got a bit rusty. No problem with cast iron! Just a bit of steel wool and it was as good as new.
A cast iron pan is the easiest pan you'll ever use.
I don't really think the science is that conclusive on seasoning. I haven't been able to find any publications to support this opinion that flax seed oil or any other oil is the best for seasoning. It seems also that the health effects of ingesting parts of the patina is not fully understood
I ruined the finish on a cast iron last year by burning some steak pretty badly. I spent a couple hours total mechanically stripping the char. I read this article. I bought the flax oil.
I kept putting off actually doing it. Why?
It's gonna smoke. I have a small one bedroom apartment.
It's gonna take an hour of baking and two hours of cooling for each coat.
It's gonna need at least six coats. Just the time investment seemed insane on a one-pan scale: 18 hours of oven use, plus applying the coats, plus a risk of starting over if something she thinks is obvious wasn't mentioned (this happens to me quite a lot, since "Reality Has a Surprising Amount of Detail"...).
A pre-seasoned replacement cast iron pan is like $50.
I bought a dutch oven cast iron set and donated the old pan to whomever picked it up in the waste room of my building, with a note on it.
I kept putting off actually doing it. Why?
It's gonna smoke. I have a small one bedroom apartment.
It's gonna take an hour of baking and two hours of cooling for each coat.
It's gonna need at least six coats. Just the time investment seemed insane on a one-pan scale: 18 hours of oven use, plus applying the coats, plus a risk of starting over if something she thinks is obvious wasn't mentioned (this happens to me quite a lot, since "Reality Has a Surprising Amount of Detail"...).
A pre-seasoned replacement cast iron pan is like $50.
I bought a dutch oven cast iron set and donated the old pan to whomever picked it up in the waste room of my building, with a note on it.
Just use a bit more oil next time you use it and let it soak in a bit.
There is absolutely no reason to micro-optimize cast iron pans, they are great because they are pretty much indestructible.
There is absolutely no reason to micro-optimize cast iron pans, they are great because they are pretty much indestructible.
I am skeptical that more oil would have taken out the burnt odor/flavor next time I used it, but I didn't try, for sure.
If there is still burned stuff inside, scrub it off with a metal sponge.
All of the castiron geeks say Flaxseed oil but from experience I can tell you it doesn't work great- eventually you get chipping in your seasoning. I ended up stripping my seasoning and redoing it using crisco which has given me the best results so far.
I've always wondered why other seasoned heavy metals aren't used in cookware? I know they would be ultra-expensive, but they would also be nearly invincible to daily wear and tear; and they should last for generations.
Cheap cast iron pans are basically invincible and can last for generations
These solid silver pans also look like they could be made to last for a hundred or so years:
https://duparquet.com/products/solid-silver-cookware
Carbon steel is pretty popular
I tried flax oil on some pans for a couple years. It didn't work out well. One cheap pan I gave away. All the rest I've stripped and reseasoned.
Vegetable oil works fine. Shortening works fine. Don't overthink this.
Vegetable oil works fine. Shortening works fine. Don't overthink this.
> I followed your directions to the letter using flak-seed oil and several coats done in the oven and yesterday when attempting to cook eggs, they stuck terribly. Please advise.
Does anyone successfully cook eggs in cast iron?
Does anyone successfully cook eggs in cast iron?
Yes. A well-used pan is quite non-stick. In my anecdotal experience, immediately after stripping/seasoning is not the best time; it gets better after a few weeks of use as more oil/fat bonds to the surface after repeated use.
If you find your pan is too sticky: use lots of oil/fat, cook at medium temperature (not too cool nor too hot), and be patient for a couple weeks; the problem will sort itself out, and eventually you'll be able to cook eggs with just a little oil.
If you find your pan is too sticky: use lots of oil/fat, cook at medium temperature (not too cool nor too hot), and be patient for a couple weeks; the problem will sort itself out, and eventually you'll be able to cook eggs with just a little oil.
I cook eggs most every day in cast iron without it sticking.
It's a vintage Wagner pan, from when they used to mill flat the cooking surface. Modern lodge has a porous surface from the cast.
Anyway I just cook them in butter, they basically float. I think they would slide across the pan if I tilted it. I'm cooking them fried/"over medium"
It's a vintage Wagner pan, from when they used to mill flat the cooking surface. Modern lodge has a porous surface from the cast.
Anyway I just cook them in butter, they basically float. I think they would slide across the pan if I tilted it. I'm cooking them fried/"over medium"
Yes. I just cooked some eggs in my pan which I reseasoned using this method a couple of years ago. I added a teaspoon or two of butter and got it hot first. After cooking the eggs and hashbrowns I barely need to clean it because nothing sticks.
After trying this flaxseed thing, I could get an egg to skate around in the pan while frying in a small amount of oil. In the long term, it's still more hassle than I want with all the flaking.
I do it every day. Another tip maybe not mentioned yet is to make sure you get it good and hot before you put in the egg. I usually leave it on the burner for five minutes or so to preheat.
I have a little square lodge cast iron pan. Fits two egss perfectly, and makes the perfect shape to fit onto regular sandwich bread. Works great.
Yes with plenty of oil
It's widely known that this wall of text blog post promoting linseed oil of all things is nonsense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/castiron/comments/en4yml/this_is_go...
https://www.reddit.com/r/castiron/comments/en4yml/this_is_go...
> Some recommend bacon drippings since lard is no longer readily available
Lard might not be _popular_ anymore, but it's definitely readily available (for cheap!).
Lard might not be _popular_ anymore, but it's definitely readily available (for cheap!).
This was a wonderful article and I learned a lot. One small nitpick though:
> If it’s conventional bacon, you’re baking in carcinogenic nitrates. But even organic bacon is not good for an initial seasoning because it’s filled with salt.
Both conventional and organic bacon contain carcinogenic nitrates - organic just contains nitrates from a natural source (celery). By definition, all bacon has nitrates.
> If it’s conventional bacon, you’re baking in carcinogenic nitrates. But even organic bacon is not good for an initial seasoning because it’s filled with salt.
Both conventional and organic bacon contain carcinogenic nitrates - organic just contains nitrates from a natural source (celery). By definition, all bacon has nitrates.
A lot of the debate seems to be over what oil results in a scratch-resistant coating. Scratch resistance tests can be purchased for less than $500:
https://www.mcmaster.com/3004N11/
It would be interesting to see the results for different oils, temperatures, bake times, number of coats, etc.
https://www.mcmaster.com/3004N11/
It would be interesting to see the results for different oils, temperatures, bake times, number of coats, etc.
If you're interested in the science of cooking, I heartily recommend 'On Food and Cooking' by Harold McGee. Also his website https://www.curiouscook.com has interesting stuff
The book changed the way I cook (for the better!)
The book changed the way I cook (for the better!)
Anyone tried carbon-steel pans? They're smooth like glass instead of the pebbled Lodge surface. Alternatively, older cast-iron pans are smooth as well.
I quite like my carbon-steel pan but the seasoning instructions (salt, oil, and potato peels?) left a mess, and instead I used the normal cast-iron method.
I quite like my carbon-steel pan but the seasoning instructions (salt, oil, and potato peels?) left a mess, and instead I used the normal cast-iron method.
Could you link to the carbon steel pan you have? I like my carbon steel pan, but it's not that much smoother than cast iron (both Lodge). The only "smooth like glass" ones I've used are ceramic, which haven't weathered as well.
Matfer Bourgeat and De Buyer are the well-known brands, both are very high quality.
I don't even remember which brand my pan is, I bought it years and years ago at a kitchen supply store. they had them in sizes from "single egg" to "enough paella to feed an army", and rather inexpensive for something I've used reliably for over a decade and a half.
My only small annoyance is that the handle is just a bit too long for the pan to go in my oven. I should probably just buy an old-fashioned cast iron pan with the short handle design, too.
I don't even remember which brand my pan is, I bought it years and years ago at a kitchen supply store. they had them in sizes from "single egg" to "enough paella to feed an army", and rather inexpensive for something I've used reliably for over a decade and a half.
My only small annoyance is that the handle is just a bit too long for the pan to go in my oven. I should probably just buy an old-fashioned cast iron pan with the short handle design, too.
So isn't the coating basically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbo... ? Are we sure that's such a good thing to be cooking with?
[deleted]
Well, linseed is the same thing as flax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flax
So linseed oil is flaxseed oil, the question is only if the process of extracting it is food-grade.
So linseed oil is flaxseed oil, the question is only if the process of extracting it is food-grade.
I'm halfway through a modified version of her method. Used her oven cleaner idea and just using the high heat sunflower oil I have on hand. Wish me luck!
I was under the impression that flaxseed oil for seasoning is a bit of a fashion thing and that it tends to chip easily. I use grapeseed oil.
How is flaxseed oil different from linseed oil, when flax and lin seeds are in fact the same thing.
Why do mine never come out black?
Blog spam for cast iron cookware periodically appears here and on other forums. Following you will encounter (if you continue here) a seemingly-endless thread of posts from
people claiming to have "no problem" with their cast-iron cookware (e.g., "Just rustled up a dozen eggs for my family using my granny's cast-iron skillet from Custer's cooking wagon at Little Big Horn. Wipes clean with a washrag!"). Best to ignore them. This posting pattern will repeat about twice each year.
Buy a cheap teflon skillet at your local store. When it becomes worn and no longer operates flawlessly then buy a new one. Never pay $17 for 17 oz. of "flaxseed oil" that becomes rancid two months later. Save hours of time cooking and cleaning!
Best of all, avoid buying a cast-iron boat anchor that you will endlessly try to "season". "Try" is all you'll do, b/c nobody knows really what a "properly seasoned* cast-iron pan is (i.e., there is no science here, folks). If you own cast-iron cookware, throw it away and move into the 21st century: get teflon pans.
Cast-iron cookware is a sucker's purchase suitable for only one scenario: old cowboy movies depicting cattle drives.
Buy a cheap teflon skillet at your local store. When it becomes worn and no longer operates flawlessly then buy a new one. Never pay $17 for 17 oz. of "flaxseed oil" that becomes rancid two months later. Save hours of time cooking and cleaning!
Best of all, avoid buying a cast-iron boat anchor that you will endlessly try to "season". "Try" is all you'll do, b/c nobody knows really what a "properly seasoned* cast-iron pan is (i.e., there is no science here, folks). If you own cast-iron cookware, throw it away and move into the 21st century: get teflon pans.
Cast-iron cookware is a sucker's purchase suitable for only one scenario: old cowboy movies depicting cattle drives.
>Cast-iron cookware is a sucker's purchase
Gotta disagree with you there. Cast iron is great for dishes that you want to sear, or that you want to finish in the oven or under a broiler. Searing on most stainless pans doesn't work nearly as well because the metal doesn't retain its heat as zealously, and if you whack your little teflon pan in the oven you'll ruin it.
Sure, there's a lot of mythology around how to season the pans and how you need to baby them, etc. That's all BS. The "secret" is to cook on your pan regularly, using a little more oil/butter than you would on teflon, and don't let your pan soak in soapy water.
If you scrape away the memes and the hype on blogs and on reddit from astroturfing accounts they're dependable, versatile cookware and they're not particularly expensive. What's not to like?
Gotta disagree with you there. Cast iron is great for dishes that you want to sear, or that you want to finish in the oven or under a broiler. Searing on most stainless pans doesn't work nearly as well because the metal doesn't retain its heat as zealously, and if you whack your little teflon pan in the oven you'll ruin it.
Sure, there's a lot of mythology around how to season the pans and how you need to baby them, etc. That's all BS. The "secret" is to cook on your pan regularly, using a little more oil/butter than you would on teflon, and don't let your pan soak in soapy water.
If you scrape away the memes and the hype on blogs and on reddit from astroturfing accounts they're dependable, versatile cookware and they're not particularly expensive. What's not to like?
Seems like you’re really quite desperate for people to buy pans covered in a probable carcinogen that, as you note, slowly rubs off into your food
Rather like someone trying really hard to get me to fire-proof my house with asbestos
Rather like someone trying really hard to get me to fire-proof my house with asbestos
“no, don’t make your house out of bricks, make it out of wood, then fireproof it with asbestos”
The 30 minutes I spent ~15 years ago preparing my carbon steel pan for use doesn't seem like very much in the overall scheme of things, certainly less time than I would have spent getting annoyed at flaking teflon coatings and buying countless new pans.
The big secret is that I simply use it regularly, clean it when it's dirty and otherwise don't worry about it.
Cast iron and carbon steel are great, I'll never buy a teflon pan ever again.
It's the fanatics and over-complicators who ruin it.
The big secret is that I simply use it regularly, clean it when it's dirty and otherwise don't worry about it.
Cast iron and carbon steel are great, I'll never buy a teflon pan ever again.
It's the fanatics and over-complicators who ruin it.
A lodge cast iron pan will last forever and isn't that expensive. And maintenance isn't terribly hard. Just rub down with oil after using (I use plain canola) and keep it dry. Serious eats has a lot of information on this. Modern soaps make the whole thing much easier.
For some people Teflon isn't an option. Bird owners for example can't use pans with PTFE coatings, cooking with them releases a compound that is toxic to parrots.
For some people Teflon isn't an option. Bird owners for example can't use pans with PTFE coatings, cooking with them releases a compound that is toxic to parrots.
Pretty desperate move there, warning bird owners!
OK, for the bird owners: buy a stainless steel skillet and use it until your bird dies. Then buy a teflon skillet.
OK, for the bird owners: buy a stainless steel skillet and use it until your bird dies. Then buy a teflon skillet.
Blog spam for hammers appears here all the time. Best to ignore it.
Buy a cheap screwdriver from Home Depot. If it breaks, buy another one.
Buy a cheap screwdriver from Home Depot. If it breaks, buy another one.
I can't disagree more strongly.
I paid $40 for a cast iron pan a decade ago. I clean it with water, and scrubbing a metal spatula. I don't do any black magic to season it. I use it for cooking almost everything... And I'll never touch teflon, because of health concerns with it.
The only stuff that sticks to my pan is food that I burned into it, because I had the heat too high. A sharp scrape with a metal spatula gets it off.
I paid $40 for a cast iron pan a decade ago. I clean it with water, and scrubbing a metal spatula. I don't do any black magic to season it. I use it for cooking almost everything... And I'll never touch teflon, because of health concerns with it.
The only stuff that sticks to my pan is food that I burned into it, because I had the heat too high. A sharp scrape with a metal spatula gets it off.
Keep a squirt bottle of oil on hand and make sure you're using enough. Using soap to clean your pans will make maintaining your seasoning easier, as you use less effort to clean them. See this if you're skeptical: https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/the-truth-about-cast-iro...
I had friends dedicate years to flax seed oil. They're not happy about it, as they've got flaking to deal with. I also had friends disbelieve me that soap was okay, and they've mostly come around after hearing me swear by it for years.