Writing is networking for introverts(byrnehobart.medium.com)
byrnehobart.medium.com
Writing is networking for introverts
https://byrnehobart.medium.com/writing-is-networking-for-introverts-5cac14ad4c77
90 comments
Most YouTubers are not geographically scoped. How do you know he has a small audience? His views or his subscribers?
Depending on the kinds of videos he makes, people may have spend more hours focused on his face, and paying attention to his mannerisms, than some friends of theirs.
It depends on how you publish - on medium the face is hidden, but if you have a personal blog it's easy to make your face and name up front (eg my own https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/lessons-learned-...).
tl;dr: faces usually don't matter
I read blogs from authors I have no idea what they look like or where they live or anything, some for almost 20 years, and longer than even that with ppl on IRC. All you need is some consistent identity for people to internalize, which in a lot of cases is a nickname, username, or whatever. Heck, I'm certain a site that used only database IDs to identify users would see (stronger, perhaps) connections form just the same as you see on LinkedIn. "On 11/21/21, 384372 wrote:..." Furthermore I'd bet that there are people who still think to themselves something like "I wonder what happened to 'gardenfloot' on Napster."
>On a related note, I often wonder how people are so sure it’s him.
It's him because it's his (I assume) channel and username. That's a reasonable assumption under the social contract such that any aberration would likely be an emergency or a successful hack or something. There have also been groups of people who act as a single online identity, but yours doesn't sound like it's that at all.
I also think celebrity itself is transforming into something a little less oriented around mobbing and paparazzi, and that being recognized is something relative nobodies can get and somebodies can lose, increasing the number of doppelgangers and diluting the entire celebrity industry.
I read blogs from authors I have no idea what they look like or where they live or anything, some for almost 20 years, and longer than even that with ppl on IRC. All you need is some consistent identity for people to internalize, which in a lot of cases is a nickname, username, or whatever. Heck, I'm certain a site that used only database IDs to identify users would see (stronger, perhaps) connections form just the same as you see on LinkedIn. "On 11/21/21, 384372 wrote:..." Furthermore I'd bet that there are people who still think to themselves something like "I wonder what happened to 'gardenfloot' on Napster."
>On a related note, I often wonder how people are so sure it’s him.
It's him because it's his (I assume) channel and username. That's a reasonable assumption under the social contract such that any aberration would likely be an emergency or a successful hack or something. There have also been groups of people who act as a single online identity, but yours doesn't sound like it's that at all.
I also think celebrity itself is transforming into something a little less oriented around mobbing and paparazzi, and that being recognized is something relative nobodies can get and somebodies can lose, increasing the number of doppelgangers and diluting the entire celebrity industry.
Don't know if it's networking for introverts, but it is asynchronous, can be anonymized, is much easier to distribute, has a wider audience, can be used as a playground, supports the thought process, reduces social pressure in and gives more control over face to face situations, pleases the ego and so on.
You can use it as a shell.
You might use it as a sting.
You can use it as a shell.
You might use it as a sting.
I am interested in how to improve one's writing, especially in creative nonfiction. Unlike programming where you can get feedback immediately from the computer if you make a mistake, it's usually not easy to find a mentor to give feedback if one's writing is improving or regressing.
I’ll curse your writing style for free and will rewrite it for $1 a word plus $5 for each word I can eliminate.
How do you get your writing seen though? It’s largely by being promoted by your friends and acquaintances when you post something, which requires... networking.
This sounds more like "socially awkward but want to talk to lots of people" than strictly introverted (which itself generally gets used to mean many things). I have some "introvert" traits: talking to people tires me out, I have no interest in low quality conversations - I dont like chit-chatting with strangers. If this is what's going to happen at an event I'd rather avoid it altogether than have a pretext for people to come talk to me.
But I'm not socially awkward really (imo) more just conserving my energy because I do find talking tiring.
So all that to say I'd rather focus on high quality interaction - smaller groups with mutual interests, vs make bulk unsolicited networking easier for me. I can see the article makes sense for the author and would work for people who for some reason want to have idle banter with others.
But I'm not socially awkward really (imo) more just conserving my energy because I do find talking tiring.
So all that to say I'd rather focus on high quality interaction - smaller groups with mutual interests, vs make bulk unsolicited networking easier for me. I can see the article makes sense for the author and would work for people who for some reason want to have idle banter with others.
I agree. The whole introvert thing is so loosely defined that it covers everyone to some degree.
For example, I find smalltalk with people I don’t really know to be extremely challenging and tiring. And yet with people I do know, or in conversations on topics where I feel confident, I struggle to shut myself up.
I wouldn’t consider myself to be either introvert or extrovert, merely some set of personality traits.
For example, I find smalltalk with people I don’t really know to be extremely challenging and tiring. And yet with people I do know, or in conversations on topics where I feel confident, I struggle to shut myself up.
I wouldn’t consider myself to be either introvert or extrovert, merely some set of personality traits.
It's a skill though, that can be trained like any other. You don't have enough practice.
I always thought my father was just like me, no nonsense, no chit chat, just to the point. Until I went with him when he was looking for storage space, and had heard an 80-year old farmer a bit outside of our town had some.
They talked about essentially nothing for twenty minutes but if you listened very carefully, somewhere in between the farmer had asked what my father was looking for, and a few minutes later my father had spent a few sentences on it, and then later it was mentioned that Xx who is the brother of Y you may know him has that company and he is using storage now but in a month half of it will be free and who knows and the rest depends on what Z does in the spring. In the end my dad kept a lot of stuff there for years paying hardly anything.
And in the meantime they understood exactly who the other was, what kind of people they were from, and so on.
I was in awe (I just stood there listening), they just had a whole type of conversation that I couldn't do.
So now I try to practice when I have the chance.
I always thought my father was just like me, no nonsense, no chit chat, just to the point. Until I went with him when he was looking for storage space, and had heard an 80-year old farmer a bit outside of our town had some.
They talked about essentially nothing for twenty minutes but if you listened very carefully, somewhere in between the farmer had asked what my father was looking for, and a few minutes later my father had spent a few sentences on it, and then later it was mentioned that Xx who is the brother of Y you may know him has that company and he is using storage now but in a month half of it will be free and who knows and the rest depends on what Z does in the spring. In the end my dad kept a lot of stuff there for years paying hardly anything.
And in the meantime they understood exactly who the other was, what kind of people they were from, and so on.
I was in awe (I just stood there listening), they just had a whole type of conversation that I couldn't do.
So now I try to practice when I have the chance.
Introversion/extroversion isn’t related to your social skills, although your level of social skills can muddle your impression of your introversion/extroversion.
Introversion and extroversion are, on the extreme ends, whether you need to seek out “down time” after being around people versus never needing down time and always wanting to be around people, respectively.
For example, I’m more of an extrovert and if I’m dead tired at midnight but someone invites me to go out, I will still say yes because being around people gives me energy and it’s like ecstasy. And if one of my friends says no, I will respect it but “won’t get it” as to why you’d want to go home.
(Of course you have responsibilities as you get older but that’s a separate issue.)
Introversion and extroversion are, on the extreme ends, whether you need to seek out “down time” after being around people versus never needing down time and always wanting to be around people, respectively.
For example, I’m more of an extrovert and if I’m dead tired at midnight but someone invites me to go out, I will still say yes because being around people gives me energy and it’s like ecstasy. And if one of my friends says no, I will respect it but “won’t get it” as to why you’d want to go home.
(Of course you have responsibilities as you get older but that’s a separate issue.)
At least from the comments, I kind of see the attitude pairing: people defining themselves as introverts think about themselves being smarter and generally superior to the extroverts. The self-defined extroverts on the other hand only criticize the social awkwardness of the introverts, no quality judgement otherwise. Conclusion: as usual, rationalization doesn't help much.
> I find smalltalk with people I don’t really know to be extremely challenging and tiring. And yet with people I do know, or in conversations on topics where I feel confident, I struggle to shut myself up.
FWIW, this pretty much exactly describes an introvert. Being introverted doesn't mean you don't like socialising at all.
FWIW, this pretty much exactly describes an introvert. Being introverted doesn't mean you don't like socialising at all.
There are so many definitions of introvert that it’s mostly lost any meaning.
Perhaps, but this sounds like what someone who doesn't know many extraverts would say.
If your default preferred way of being isn't "with other people" -- to the point where you feel anxious when you're alone for any reasonable length of time -- you're probably some flavor of introvert?
If your default preferred way of being isn't "with other people" -- to the point where you feel anxious when you're alone for any reasonable length of time -- you're probably some flavor of introvert?
How many humans even have “default modes”?
> I agree. The whole introvert thing is so loosely defined that it covers everyone to some degree.
Well of course. Because majority of people is exactly in the middle between extroverts and introverts. The extremes are fairly rare. Most of us are a mix of introvert and extrovert traits, because it is normal distribution.
The way people talk about it, you would think there are two distinct species with no overlap.
Well of course. Because majority of people is exactly in the middle between extroverts and introverts. The extremes are fairly rare. Most of us are a mix of introvert and extrovert traits, because it is normal distribution.
The way people talk about it, you would think there are two distinct species with no overlap.
> I find smalltalk with people I don’t really know to be extremely challenging and tiring. And yet with people I do know, or in conversations on topics where I feel confident, I struggle to shut myself up.
This sounds more like ADHD.
This sounds more like ADHD.
That would imply there’s something wrong with me, something that needs fixing. I don’t feel like that at all.
In a sense, we are all a mixture of personality traits. It’s only when you get to the extremes, where it starts to be harmful, that it becomes a “disorder”.
In a sense, we are all a mixture of personality traits. It’s only when you get to the extremes, where it starts to be harmful, that it becomes a “disorder”.
I used to find trying to entertain people by playing the piano extremely tiring and challenging. I was just so bad at it. The more I tried the worse I felt.
Then I took piano lessons, practised a lot, and learnt three songs quite well.
Ever since then, when I’m at a party where there’s a piano, I’ve played one or two songs, then spent the rest of the night talking with people about music.
Learning to play the piano has helped me to overcome my social awkwardness. Now, instead of strangers feeling like an energy drain, it’s like they charge my batteries.
Then I took piano lessons, practised a lot, and learnt three songs quite well.
Ever since then, when I’m at a party where there’s a piano, I’ve played one or two songs, then spent the rest of the night talking with people about music.
Learning to play the piano has helped me to overcome my social awkwardness. Now, instead of strangers feeling like an energy drain, it’s like they charge my batteries.
On the other hand, I have no problems talking to strangers and most of the time leave a good impression on people, but it drains my energy way more quickly than talkign with people I know well. If I spend half the day pair programming with someone, at the end I have a strong feeling of just wanting to be alone. And during trips, after a few days with friends I miss my home, and usually after around a week with my family.
My point is that you can have no social awkwardness and be good at talking to people, but still have it be an energy drain.
My point is that you can have no social awkwardness and be good at talking to people, but still have it be an energy drain.
Yes it’s circumstantial. Needs based. Content and context dependent.
There’s nothing wrong with having ADHD. I’m just saying, ADHD could be a plausible explanation than being an introvert, and as someone who got diagnosed at 36 himself, it can take a while to see the signs.
For example, I can’t small talk with someone if I think they’re boring or if it’s someone new who I just met and don’t trust. It’s a terrible trait of mine because it’s pretty judgemental, but it’s something that I’m hoping to improve over time. Because of this, people’s first impression of me is that I’m an introvert, but I’m far from being an introvert (I really need frequent social contact). It just takes a while for me to warm up to someone.
For example, I can’t small talk with someone if I think they’re boring or if it’s someone new who I just met and don’t trust. It’s a terrible trait of mine because it’s pretty judgemental, but it’s something that I’m hoping to improve over time. Because of this, people’s first impression of me is that I’m an introvert, but I’m far from being an introvert (I really need frequent social contact). It just takes a while for me to warm up to someone.
I think the difference is:
- is energised by interacting with people
vs
- is de-energised by interacting with people
But there is a social skills / anxiety aspect to this.
Some people aren't particularly inherently energised by social interaction, so will always be introverted. That doesn't mean some social interaction isn't beneficial though - It might mean that they need a lot less though, like how some people biologically need less sleep than others, or degrade slower when deprived of it.
Incidentally, I wonder whether "coping mechanisms" are the difference - that introverts develop stronger internal dialogues that substitute for normal (external) social interaction(s).
- is energised by interacting with people
vs
- is de-energised by interacting with people
But there is a social skills / anxiety aspect to this.
Some people aren't particularly inherently energised by social interaction, so will always be introverted. That doesn't mean some social interaction isn't beneficial though - It might mean that they need a lot less though, like how some people biologically need less sleep than others, or degrade slower when deprived of it.
Incidentally, I wonder whether "coping mechanisms" are the difference - that introverts develop stronger internal dialogues that substitute for normal (external) social interaction(s).
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What you call "low-quality conversation", smalltalk, is particularly disliked by people with Aspergers.
> I have no interest in low quality conversations
These are typically a gateway/warm-up to high quality conversations.
These are typically a gateway/warm-up to high quality conversations.
"Typically" is a bit overly optimistic IMO. "Possibly" seems more accurate - low quality conversations (e.g. the weather, sports, etc.) are typically just psychological glue so folks don't feel awkward during silence.
And I think it's fair to say that extroverts value that glue more than introverts, generally speaking. For an introvert, the value of the glue may even be exceeded by the cost of discussing some random nonsense they don't really care about.
And I think it's fair to say that extroverts value that glue more than introverts, generally speaking. For an introvert, the value of the glue may even be exceeded by the cost of discussing some random nonsense they don't really care about.
I agree that possibly is a better term.
I'm very introverted myself, but I realized if I'm trying to make friends or whatever I have to deal with the small talk.
I think there is a vanishingly small amount of people - even amongst introverts - that will jump straight into the deep end of a discussion with someone right off the bat. Most of my introvert friends also engage in warm up small talk before talking about whatever it is we talk about.
That said, I don't make small talk with strangers unless I'm interested in making them a friend or acquaintance: so I suppose your opportunity cost perspective still applies, as I definitely don't make small talk just to make a silence more comfortable.
I'm very introverted myself, but I realized if I'm trying to make friends or whatever I have to deal with the small talk.
I think there is a vanishingly small amount of people - even amongst introverts - that will jump straight into the deep end of a discussion with someone right off the bat. Most of my introvert friends also engage in warm up small talk before talking about whatever it is we talk about.
That said, I don't make small talk with strangers unless I'm interested in making them a friend or acquaintance: so I suppose your opportunity cost perspective still applies, as I definitely don't make small talk just to make a silence more comfortable.
there's a guy in my building that 100% of the time he talks about the weather when we met in the elevator. its kinda funny that some people can't deal with silence for a few seconds
As a person who has talked about weather with neighbors... It's not necessarily about being uncomfortable. All small talk has a subtext, and in this case I think it's something like:
"Hi neighbor, it's nice to see a familiar face. I'm glad to see that you are alive and well, as am I. I am still a normal non-creepy person who lives near you & who cares that you are doing well. If you ever find yourself in a jam eg. locked out, I'll try to help you, and hope I can rely on you to do the same for me. But I don't necessarily want to be your friend, and I realize that you have other things going on at the moment, so I won't bother or distract you with a conversation that takes longer than an elevator trip or requires emotional vulnerability or introspection."
I think we don't say these things in these words because it takes too long, and it requires engaging with someone on a more personal/honest/vulnerable level than they may really be comfortable with given that I'm basically a total stranger.
"Hi neighbor, it's nice to see a familiar face. I'm glad to see that you are alive and well, as am I. I am still a normal non-creepy person who lives near you & who cares that you are doing well. If you ever find yourself in a jam eg. locked out, I'll try to help you, and hope I can rely on you to do the same for me. But I don't necessarily want to be your friend, and I realize that you have other things going on at the moment, so I won't bother or distract you with a conversation that takes longer than an elevator trip or requires emotional vulnerability or introspection."
I think we don't say these things in these words because it takes too long, and it requires engaging with someone on a more personal/honest/vulnerable level than they may really be comfortable with given that I'm basically a total stranger.
I love those guys. It shows how important it is for them to not cause trouble or create surprises for random strangers that they are willing to repeat the same conversation with that level of dedication.
It is the purest form of empathy and yet unfortunately also the most invisible kind.
It is the purest form of empathy and yet unfortunately also the most invisible kind.
The fact that someone talks because they find silence uncomfortable doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with empathy. It may be a form of self-help executed against someone who doesn't really want to talk nor feels in any way uncomfortable when not talking about crap like weather, plans for the weekend, or - better yet - doesn't want to be annoyed by politics.
Hell, I know people who tend to help themselves into dumb conversations while the other person reads a book or does something similar. No empathy here.
Hell, I know people who tend to help themselves into dumb conversations while the other person reads a book or does something similar. No empathy here.
sigh...it's not really about the weather. get it. extroversion is not about talking, but socializing, warmth, dominance etc.
People are different. Not everyone uses weather as an entry point to other topics. Some talk about weather and just this, when in the elevator, with no intention of going forward.
This is, I believe, to cover discomfort coming from silence and such conversations, while not completely pointless, often have little value. They would talk about just anything, to combat this feeling. Weather is a good topic because most people can relate and it is rarely annoying.
I would say that both intro- and extroverts can act like this but conversations started by introverts tend to be more awkward. I think that lonely people are more likely to start valuable conversations.
This is, I believe, to cover discomfort coming from silence and such conversations, while not completely pointless, often have little value. They would talk about just anything, to combat this feeling. Weather is a good topic because most people can relate and it is rarely annoying.
I would say that both intro- and extroverts can act like this but conversations started by introverts tend to be more awkward. I think that lonely people are more likely to start valuable conversations.
I think that people are giving here genuine feedback from where they are coming from. And it looks like what you think they think is definitely not necessarily what they say they think. So unless somebody told you directly that they use the weather discussion for that reason, it could be that you value more your assumptions than their first-hand explanations...
That doesn't strike me as empathy - I'm not villifying it either, but it's more about personal psychological needs than the needs of others (which lumps it in with most behavior of course, hence not villifying it).
Sure, for their mental model of other people they're being nice (and in some cases they actually are) - but not everybody has the same mind or preferences. True empathy is built on understanding that.
Sure, for their mental model of other people they're being nice (and in some cases they actually are) - but not everybody has the same mind or preferences. True empathy is built on understanding that.
I have this impression too, that extroverts are socially numb and hardly notice anything, sometimes even oblivious about people around them. Well, due to this numbness cheap talk has no chance to get through their skin. In this way extrovert is a literally precise term: lots out, little in.
I think parent would still go through those warm-ups if there was a legitimate chance for the conversation to go further.
Speaking for myself, if I was sitting at a social gathering I'd totally bear through any length of ice breaking to get to the meat of the conversation. If it was on a queue at the grocery store I'd bail out at the first 5 seconds. It's a matter of expectations.
Speaking for myself, if I was sitting at a social gathering I'd totally bear through any length of ice breaking to get to the meat of the conversation. If it was on a queue at the grocery store I'd bail out at the first 5 seconds. It's a matter of expectations.
I change my opinions way too frequently for it. Reading stuff that I wrote as recently as a year ago is mildly painful and annoying.
> I change my opinions way too frequently for it.
That's interesting, though. I rarely change my opinions, but I noticed one thing - I often say "I don't know about this subject enough to have strong opinion".
I feel like if I change your opinions frequently, these opinions weren't built on good enough basis.
That's interesting, though. I rarely change my opinions, but I noticed one thing - I often say "I don't know about this subject enough to have strong opinion".
I feel like if I change your opinions frequently, these opinions weren't built on good enough basis.
How do you hold an opinion if it has no basis that can persist over time? I personally imagine for reading one's own writing, just like listening to my own singing, the exact "pain points" you feel would also be felt by any audience and therefore are the most valuable feedback you could possibly receive...
It's mostly due to learning more things and having different interests. Sometimes it's a change of opinion, other times it's more like "is this even worth talking about" or "I would phrase things differently if I was writing this now".
> "I would phrase things differently if I was writing this now"
This is the point that matters most, and I would pay careful attention to and hone this instinct. It is the one that would truly reduce the "pain" of consuming your own efforts. Otherwise, I am not sure what to say, it is of course possible to write for different reasons and with different efforts and expectations, so I would not fret too much about how much you "care" about something over time, just how much it interests you to read your own points about it
This is the point that matters most, and I would pay careful attention to and hone this instinct. It is the one that would truly reduce the "pain" of consuming your own efforts. Otherwise, I am not sure what to say, it is of course possible to write for different reasons and with different efforts and expectations, so I would not fret too much about how much you "care" about something over time, just how much it interests you to read your own points about it
Not the person you replied to, but it's usually more of a shift in desired tone/writing style than just a general objective evaluation.
For example I can write a post and feel the tone is good, then come back to it and find it too informal, not expert-y enough. Then I'll write a new article and some time later find it too academic and not engaging enough.
That might just be me though.
For example I can write a post and feel the tone is good, then come back to it and find it too informal, not expert-y enough. Then I'll write a new article and some time later find it too academic and not engaging enough.
That might just be me though.
This is often described by authors. They sometimes suggest letting the writing rest a while. Come back to it a while later and adjust it into a final draft. This advice is often talking about longer form material, like books, but I wonder if it’s similar to what you’re experiencing.
If so, maybe it’s that your drafts lack something because you’re just trying to get all the words out.
If so, maybe it’s that your drafts lack something because you’re just trying to get all the words out.
People learn new facts about topics and change their minds all the time. A 5 year old may be of the opinion that eating candy for breakfast, lunch, and dinner is a well balanced meal until they have their first candy "hangover".
> People learn new facts about topics and change their minds all the time
I view it as inappropriate to put pen to paper to publish about something I've only put passing thought and research into, so this point is a bit facile.
> A 5 year old
This one even more so.
I view it as inappropriate to put pen to paper to publish about something I've only put passing thought and research into, so this point is a bit facile.
> A 5 year old
This one even more so.
I learn by writing about things in detail because it causes me to think through them. So, I’m the opposite, sometimes, where I write about things I’m not an expert in. I also publish a blog, so I do it in public fairly frequently.
Right, and in such a context you know what you don't know, so you're not asserting facts (equivalently expressing opinions) that will change in the short or medium term because those things which are in flux can easily be pointed to as such.
This is really my point - "opinions changing" = initial conclusions were drawn with inappropriate extrapolation. Why would you write about things you hastily extrapolated and never verified?
This is really my point - "opinions changing" = initial conclusions were drawn with inappropriate extrapolation. Why would you write about things you hastily extrapolated and never verified?
Responding to two of your comments.
> I personally imagine for reading one's own writing, just like listening to my own singing, the exact "pain points" you feel would also be felt by any audience and therefore are the most valuable feedback you could possibly receive...
Curious if you've actually received the exact same feedback from someone else listening to you sing vs your own thinking? Realize that might just be a stylized example. But I'm a drummer, and over many years of playing in front of people I've observed that they didn't notice the "paint points" I noticed. Lots of these things are relative right?
> I view it as inappropriate to put pen to paper to publish about something I've only put passing thought and research into, so this point is a bit facile.
Do you draft while you think and research? What's your process?
> I personally imagine for reading one's own writing, just like listening to my own singing, the exact "pain points" you feel would also be felt by any audience and therefore are the most valuable feedback you could possibly receive...
Curious if you've actually received the exact same feedback from someone else listening to you sing vs your own thinking? Realize that might just be a stylized example. But I'm a drummer, and over many years of playing in front of people I've observed that they didn't notice the "paint points" I noticed. Lots of these things are relative right?
> I view it as inappropriate to put pen to paper to publish about something I've only put passing thought and research into, so this point is a bit facile.
Do you draft while you think and research? What's your process?
> Curious if you've actually received the exact same feedback from someone else listening to you sing vs your own thinking? Realize that might just be a stylized example
it's a stylized example, for noobs who find themselves offensive upon any listen-back. For example, the comment I'm responding to suggests "reading their own writing to be painful". This is clearly not performer-tier, which you clearly are talking about.
To flesh out the example, I was bad at singing initially. I could be in-tune in a certain range, maybe 1.5-2 octaves, but even then my timbre was off, my pronunciations were off, it was too shrill here and there, my range was limited, etc.. Easy things to figure out on your own; painful things to hear on playback.
Now, later, I have 3+ octave range, multiple tones I can accomplish, the ability to power voice / head voice / rasp / break / scream, so when I sing for people they are able to give me subjective feedback on my artistic expression rather than my technical shortcomings, so the feedback diverges from what I would think myself, which is fantastic.
My point is that you don't get to the "performer" stage where people critique your expression without getting to a stage where your own art/work is palatable to you yourself.
> Do you draft while you think and research? What's your process?
Yes, I write behind a main thesis statement, and I write a first draft and simultaneously I collect evidence for this point. if I come to some conflict in my readings, I let this fuel my learnings. I don't just brush it aside as confusing, and then publish my work, come back to the conflicting info in 6 months and realize my idiocy, and then be like "oh damn my opinion flip flopped again, oops".
it's a stylized example, for noobs who find themselves offensive upon any listen-back. For example, the comment I'm responding to suggests "reading their own writing to be painful". This is clearly not performer-tier, which you clearly are talking about.
To flesh out the example, I was bad at singing initially. I could be in-tune in a certain range, maybe 1.5-2 octaves, but even then my timbre was off, my pronunciations were off, it was too shrill here and there, my range was limited, etc.. Easy things to figure out on your own; painful things to hear on playback.
Now, later, I have 3+ octave range, multiple tones I can accomplish, the ability to power voice / head voice / rasp / break / scream, so when I sing for people they are able to give me subjective feedback on my artistic expression rather than my technical shortcomings, so the feedback diverges from what I would think myself, which is fantastic.
My point is that you don't get to the "performer" stage where people critique your expression without getting to a stage where your own art/work is palatable to you yourself.
> Do you draft while you think and research? What's your process?
Yes, I write behind a main thesis statement, and I write a first draft and simultaneously I collect evidence for this point. if I come to some conflict in my readings, I let this fuel my learnings. I don't just brush it aside as confusing, and then publish my work, come back to the conflicting info in 6 months and realize my idiocy, and then be like "oh damn my opinion flip flopped again, oops".
I imagine you're someone who finds honor in the truth. If you are, then you would benefit from writing. Here are two things you get from writing: 1) it forces you to clarify your thoughts, and 2) it enables you to create new thoughts. Writing is a very effective means to discovering powerful truths.
I think you understand the power of the truth, which is why you're uncomfortable being exposed to it too regularly.
I think you understand the power of the truth, which is why you're uncomfortable being exposed to it too regularly.
> I change my opinions way too frequently for it. Reading stuff that I wrote as recently as a year ago is mildly painful and annoying.
This is why I treat most of my non-commissioned writing as living documents, especially in the software space as things change all of the time.
This is why I treat most of my non-commissioned writing as living documents, especially in the software space as things change all of the time.
> I change my opinions way too frequently
If that is because you have learnt something, great!
So many amazing people have written that they actively seek finding out where they are wrong: they revel in it, because they recognise that they have become smarter by understanding their own mistakes.
If your opinions are static, then you are not thinking. 99% of what we know is wrong (subtly or dramatically).
If that is because you have learnt something, great!
So many amazing people have written that they actively seek finding out where they are wrong: they revel in it, because they recognise that they have become smarter by understanding their own mistakes.
If your opinions are static, then you are not thinking. 99% of what we know is wrong (subtly or dramatically).
I would argue, that the basic discussion about introverts and extroverts is to easy. I think it is way more complex than just two groups. And when we use these two categories, than please JUST to distinguish the basics. But you can not argue with it it this case.
I personaly do not know any "classic" intro- or extrovert...
I personaly do not know any "classic" intro- or extrovert...
This can be better said as 'Writing as communication to an anonymous audience is an introverted activity', which is almost a tautology.
I don't see how it would be - most of what's written is never read.
Speaking from personal experience, writing something once increases the chance that future me will say something in direct conversation with at least one other person. So for me, there is a positive, non zero benefit.
I’m not sure that’s true for all forms of writing but I’d love to hear more about it.
Publishing a blog, for example, is pretty likely to be read by at least a small group of people. Same with a book. If I’m writing in a personal notebook, than no, it’s not likely to be read. On the whole, the statement is probably true, but for specific forms, I suspect it’s false.
Publishing a blog, for example, is pretty likely to be read by at least a small group of people. Same with a book. If I’m writing in a personal notebook, than no, it’s not likely to be read. On the whole, the statement is probably true, but for specific forms, I suspect it’s false.
> Publishing a blog, for example, is pretty likely to be read by at least a small group of people.
No it isn't.
No it isn't.
>most of what's written is never read
Most of what is spoken isn't really listened to, either.
Most of what is spoken isn't really listened to, either.
If you see it the other way around - you just need one person to discover your writing to unlock the depth of your thinking as a person.
Writing for the internet > Doing that one on one through networking IRL
Writing for the internet > Doing that one on one through networking IRL
I see writing slightly differently: it's a way to present your ideas without any performance-related anxiety getting in the way.
To prepare a good conference talk generally takes a long time, and an otherwise solid talk can be made less engaging by poor delivery.
Writing a comparable article can take the same amount of time, but it's much easier to get feedback on it, and it's far easier to track updates. There's no single moment where you can really screw it up.
To prepare a good conference talk generally takes a long time, and an otherwise solid talk can be made less engaging by poor delivery.
Writing a comparable article can take the same amount of time, but it's much easier to get feedback on it, and it's far easier to track updates. There's no single moment where you can really screw it up.
The biggest challenge is getting people to read what you wrote, and care enough to respond.
I started a blog recently where I want to write notes for my writing practice and explore different subjects I'm interested in. Of course it'd be nice if someone had actually read it, for my personal vanity, and all those conversations and opportunities people claim blogging leads to.
But it's not the kind of project it would make sense to drive ads to, or even to niche down and grow an audience around a specific topic, since the whole point is to write whatever "gratifies my intellectual curiosity". But you can't really submit this kind of thing to reddit or to forums, they ban "blogspam" for very good reasons. There's no obvious way to promote it and put it in front of people.
Instead of blogging I could try engaging in conversations here and on reddit (and maybe on discord or twitter), and that, at least HN and reddit, works amazingly well for having good discussions (if not for making personal connections).
But the biggest problem with engaging in social media is that it quickly becomes extremely unhealthy and addictive (in the way that blogging doesn't). I want to write, and I want to talk to people, but I don't want to get addicted to refreshing my profile page to look for upvotes and comment notifications (I do have a big problem with the internet addiction).
I'm not sure what the right solution to that would be. Does anyone have good ideas? How do you make actual human connection over the internet and engage in intelligent conversations, without getting your dopamine hijacked and skinnerboxed by the social media algorithms?
Maybe there's a space for a platform that would encourage thoughtful discussion somehow, and limit the immediate rewards that make social media so addictive. But then nobody would use that platform, right?
I started a blog recently where I want to write notes for my writing practice and explore different subjects I'm interested in. Of course it'd be nice if someone had actually read it, for my personal vanity, and all those conversations and opportunities people claim blogging leads to.
But it's not the kind of project it would make sense to drive ads to, or even to niche down and grow an audience around a specific topic, since the whole point is to write whatever "gratifies my intellectual curiosity". But you can't really submit this kind of thing to reddit or to forums, they ban "blogspam" for very good reasons. There's no obvious way to promote it and put it in front of people.
Instead of blogging I could try engaging in conversations here and on reddit (and maybe on discord or twitter), and that, at least HN and reddit, works amazingly well for having good discussions (if not for making personal connections).
But the biggest problem with engaging in social media is that it quickly becomes extremely unhealthy and addictive (in the way that blogging doesn't). I want to write, and I want to talk to people, but I don't want to get addicted to refreshing my profile page to look for upvotes and comment notifications (I do have a big problem with the internet addiction).
I'm not sure what the right solution to that would be. Does anyone have good ideas? How do you make actual human connection over the internet and engage in intelligent conversations, without getting your dopamine hijacked and skinnerboxed by the social media algorithms?
Maybe there's a space for a platform that would encourage thoughtful discussion somehow, and limit the immediate rewards that make social media so addictive. But then nobody would use that platform, right?
Try /r/hnblogs. It was created specifically to promote contributors of hacker news.
I’ve never submitted anything but I’ve read and commented on quite a few articles I’ve read from that subreddit.
I’ve never submitted anything but I’ve read and commented on quite a few articles I’ve read from that subreddit.
That's what signatures are for ?
As long as you don't abuse those and are interesting enough in your everyday forum conversation, people are going to check those out ?
As long as you don't abuse those and are interesting enough in your everyday forum conversation, people are going to check those out ?
I write, because it makes my arguments reusable for like-minded people, with sources, quotes etc.
Interesting idea, but yea, your last point would probably be the outcome, sadly.
Maybe someone somewhere will come up with a NLP based solution which will cluster people with similar ideas (by means of their blogs) so that you may find people who share your interests within the cluster or explore other idea clusters. Would be a great way of making friends if nothing else.
I think that subreddits work extremely well for finding people with similar interests, they're basically the perfect tool for that. Discord servers too. If anything, the issue is that they're too good, so I get addicted, and have to force myself to stop.
There could be some kind of solution, based on NLP, or maybe even just finding patterns and clusters in links. But it'd suffer from the same problem subreddits and google do - instantly getting hijacked by the spammers and SEO people trying to promote their stuff.
To the degree that having a popular blog is valuable, people will be motivated to find ways to promote it. And when people want to promote stuff, they'll try game whatever system is available. And so the system will have to implement the anti-spam measures, leading to moderation and probably banning most of the blogs.
Hmm... Maybe that's why we ended up with HN comments and subreddit text-posts working so well. Yes, you can't get the "networking" value out of them (because nobody cares about your username, and there's no such thing as subscribers), but it's not a bug, but a feature - without the personal value there's no incentive to game the system, so you just have people posting for the sake of the conversation.
But that would also mean that becoming even a "micro" celebrity will always be at least somewhat difficult - to the extent that it's valuable, there will be people trying to game the system, and measures trying to stop that, and competition.
There could be some kind of solution, based on NLP, or maybe even just finding patterns and clusters in links. But it'd suffer from the same problem subreddits and google do - instantly getting hijacked by the spammers and SEO people trying to promote their stuff.
To the degree that having a popular blog is valuable, people will be motivated to find ways to promote it. And when people want to promote stuff, they'll try game whatever system is available. And so the system will have to implement the anti-spam measures, leading to moderation and probably banning most of the blogs.
Hmm... Maybe that's why we ended up with HN comments and subreddit text-posts working so well. Yes, you can't get the "networking" value out of them (because nobody cares about your username, and there's no such thing as subscribers), but it's not a bug, but a feature - without the personal value there's no incentive to game the system, so you just have people posting for the sake of the conversation.
But that would also mean that becoming even a "micro" celebrity will always be at least somewhat difficult - to the extent that it's valuable, there will be people trying to game the system, and measures trying to stop that, and competition.
I think this could be achieved by indexing only tags on blog posts. Aside from having to groom the tag corpus (maintaining sets of synonyms would probably be a big part), this would seem to be a fairly pain-free way of deriving some of these associations. It could be extended into "hmm, what other things are the people I share this with also interested in," which happens to be just about where I think the entire field of recommendation engine research should have ended. But I digress.
Yes, you would have to use tags to participate if you weren't already, but that just makes it opt-in.
Yes, you would have to use tags to participate if you weren't already, but that just makes it opt-in.
Integrate it with ActivityPub and make an account on a service like Mastodon/Plerona/Misskey/etc so you can federate with everyone else. Then, when you publish a new blog post it can be automatically pushed onto other people's feeds if they're following you. I do this, but I also don't really have that big of a desire to find thousands of readers at once. I'm mostly contented with sharing my writing to a few friends and technologically sophisticated peers, so ymmv.
I took my love of gaming and parlayed it into a YouTube channel. It’s been a fantastic experience.
Making videos is hard work and the learning curve is steep if you don’t have a background in video and (more importantly) audio. But to your point about an audience: on YT, if you build it, they will come. Most interactions in the comments have been pleasant and interesting.
If you’re at all that way inclined, I recommend you consider it or - even better - try it.
EDIT: Forgot to add, although it might have been clear from the context - I’m heavily introverted.
Making videos is hard work and the learning curve is steep if you don’t have a background in video and (more importantly) audio. But to your point about an audience: on YT, if you build it, they will come. Most interactions in the comments have been pleasant and interesting.
If you’re at all that way inclined, I recommend you consider it or - even better - try it.
EDIT: Forgot to add, although it might have been clear from the context - I’m heavily introverted.
I feel very similarly. I like longform essays -- reading them, and writing them -- as well as SSC-like blog posts. Most of that is too long for the typical internet user. Also, I too hate the feeling of my writing contributing to my internet addiction by causing me to be hyper-attuned to online performance indicators.
I don't have an internet-based solution for you, short of trying to get your stuff published in publications. They say that building an online audience is hard, and the best time to start was five years ago.
This being said, my favorite solution and suggestion is to join a local writer's workshop if you haven't already. Many workshops concentrate on fiction, but there is a growing interest in "creative non-fiction" as well. That's where I've found a decent level of discussion about both the content and form of my writing. A second suggestion would be to take a non-fiction writing class through a local university extension. I've gotten a ton out of doing that; there are few things like a small community of supportive writers and readers.
I don't have an internet-based solution for you, short of trying to get your stuff published in publications. They say that building an online audience is hard, and the best time to start was five years ago.
This being said, my favorite solution and suggestion is to join a local writer's workshop if you haven't already. Many workshops concentrate on fiction, but there is a growing interest in "creative non-fiction" as well. That's where I've found a decent level of discussion about both the content and form of my writing. A second suggestion would be to take a non-fiction writing class through a local university extension. I've gotten a ton out of doing that; there are few things like a small community of supportive writers and readers.
I relate to this. I'm writing whatever scratches my itch, and most of the value comes from the writing itself.
But, of course it'd be nice if some people read what I wrote? When I post to reddit or hn I get good traffic and some discussion, but that has all the problems you discuss.
There are probably only a few dozen people who enjoy regularly reading this sort of content, they probably write too. I'd love to find them and start a private chat server where we could read each other's pieces.
But, of course it'd be nice if some people read what I wrote? When I post to reddit or hn I get good traffic and some discussion, but that has all the problems you discuss.
There are probably only a few dozen people who enjoy regularly reading this sort of content, they probably write too. I'd love to find them and start a private chat server where we could read each other's pieces.
> But you can't really submit this kind of thing to reddit or to forums, they ban "blogspam" for very good reasons.
As long as your tasteful about sharing, like you already participate in the community idk if you should feel bad or feel like your blog spamming.
3rd party sites are often just a better format for something long form. Blog spam is just drive by dumping shit on a message board expecting likes, follows etc ... With no participation and the content being shared is low quality
As long as your tasteful about sharing, like you already participate in the community idk if you should feel bad or feel like your blog spamming.
3rd party sites are often just a better format for something long form. Blog spam is just drive by dumping shit on a message board expecting likes, follows etc ... With no participation and the content being shared is low quality
More like, networking is writing for extroverts
You know what really enhances your networking via writing endeavor? Not using medium.
komi can't communicate is a good demonstration in anime
It is. It's also more than that.
Writing is a communication medium.
For some of the reasons we want to communicate, it's the perfect tool for the job. For some of the reasons we want to communicate it's a bit rubbish.
Writing is extremely abstract. It has less of a connection to our subconscious, it's a long, long way from the real world. Humans are creatures driven by human shaped, in person interaction.
Quieter cats love writing for exactly that reason, the emotional ups and downs are much more mellow.
I find though, many people use writing and other tools as a band-aid for how they deal with their emotions. Instead of exploring them.
Instead of seeking, enjoying, laughing, crying, being curious about at all the joys of life, they use multiple abstractions to control their emotions.
Rather than throwing themselves into an emotional whirlwind and growing as a person, they throw up safety barriers. They never figure out how they, themselves actually work.
They'll happily devote years of their lives towards optimizing language compilers, without even thinking to learn what makes the Mountain Dew compiler tick.
Writing is a communication medium.
For some of the reasons we want to communicate, it's the perfect tool for the job. For some of the reasons we want to communicate it's a bit rubbish.
Writing is extremely abstract. It has less of a connection to our subconscious, it's a long, long way from the real world. Humans are creatures driven by human shaped, in person interaction.
Quieter cats love writing for exactly that reason, the emotional ups and downs are much more mellow.
I find though, many people use writing and other tools as a band-aid for how they deal with their emotions. Instead of exploring them.
Instead of seeking, enjoying, laughing, crying, being curious about at all the joys of life, they use multiple abstractions to control their emotions.
Rather than throwing themselves into an emotional whirlwind and growing as a person, they throw up safety barriers. They never figure out how they, themselves actually work.
They'll happily devote years of their lives towards optimizing language compilers, without even thinking to learn what makes the Mountain Dew compiler tick.
I used to run a services business, and thought that attending conferences and meet-ups would give me business. Networking (in real life) is not something I enjoyed - but had to do to get more business.
Some of the best business and personal relationships I've had IRL, have been a byproduct of writing something online.
Some the advantages that I can think of 1. Putting yourself out there has a lot more scale when you broadcast your thoughts by writing online. Even reaching 10s of people takes more time in real life. 2. Cumulative and compounding - someone can find out a lot more about you by just reading more of the things that you've written about in the past. 3. Pull vs Push - It lets the best connections come to you - instead of putting the impetus on you finding the best connection.
Some of the best business and personal relationships I've had IRL, have been a byproduct of writing something online.
Some the advantages that I can think of 1. Putting yourself out there has a lot more scale when you broadcast your thoughts by writing online. Even reaching 10s of people takes more time in real life. 2. Cumulative and compounding - someone can find out a lot more about you by just reading more of the things that you've written about in the past. 3. Pull vs Push - It lets the best connections come to you - instead of putting the impetus on you finding the best connection.
That's a nice way to put it.
I guess it is.
I also feel much more appreciated when someone reaches out to me because of something I wrote and it's easier to make a connection - it acts as a great filter, straight to the point and can be a jumping point to more conversation.
I guess it is.
I also feel much more appreciated when someone reaches out to me because of something I wrote and it's easier to make a connection - it acts as a great filter, straight to the point and can be a jumping point to more conversation.
but what if i’m good at both?
Apart from natural inclinations one needs to account the time it takes. Networking is boring and slow process , and nerds are impatient. It seems like there is a problem to solve there, rather than considering it an unfixable natural handicap. Writing (becoming famous) may be one way but it still too indirect, hard if you re not good writer, and probably hit-or-miss way to succeed in.
The problem with the global and centralizing nature of our current social instruments is that markets in every niche are global, which means that all buyers and all sellers are in the same spot trying to network. This is monolithic. It is good for finding global optima, but it misses all the value that exists in local optima.
The problem with the global and centralizing nature of our current social instruments is that markets in every niche are global, which means that all buyers and all sellers are in the same spot trying to network. This is monolithic. It is good for finding global optima, but it misses all the value that exists in local optima.
I do see the micro-celebrity in action with my adult son, who is a YouTuber. People recognize him pretty often, so his small following must be relatively local and has this effect. But that’s video where he can easily be recognized.
On a related note, I often wonder how people are so sure it’s him. If I see a video of someone, I’m not likely to recognize them in public. Perhaps I have a bit of this condition of an inability to recognize faces mentioned in the article.