Why Skilled Immigrants Are Leaving the U.S(businessweek.com)
businessweek.com
Why Skilled Immigrants Are Leaving the U.S
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2009/tc20090228_990934.htm
25 comments
I would argue that while this certainly sucks for the US in the short term, it's awesome for the world in the long term. This is exactly what globalization is good for -- expose talented people from all over the world to the free market, get them to our level of expertise, and then have them go back home and start the arduous process of improving local standards of living.
Except the US has lower standards of living, a worse education system, a terrible human rights record, really high obesity levels, and more poverty than many other counties.
No wonder they are leaving... there's many better places to live:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Most_Livable_Cities
They also might be scared of being put in jail... with the US having 1 out of 100 people in jail... a massive percentage of them being non-white. The highest level of incarceration in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States
No wonder they are leaving... there's many better places to live:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Most_Livable_Cities
They also might be scared of being put in jail... with the US having 1 out of 100 people in jail... a massive percentage of them being non-white. The highest level of incarceration in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States
I agree with you that the US has a lot of problems, but I do think you've overstated the case.
A "worse education system"? I'd be more inclined to say an "uneven" system. If you live in a well-to-do area, it can be absolutely excellent. California's inequalities really illustrate ths divide. If you grow up in a strong public education district, and follow it with an undergrad or grad degree at one of the University of California campuses.... I suspect that's one of the strongest public educational paths available on a massive scale (IIT and the Grande Ecoles may have higher numbers, but they are also much smaller). The US is also a great place to be a late bloomer - if you can do well in a community college and transfer to a UC, you have educational opportunities in your 30s, 40s and beyond that are typically closed off to you by that age in other countries.
And lastly, I do think the size and breadth of US Universities exceeds any other country. Not to say the US has a monopoly on this, but it's the overwhelming first.
A "worse education system"? I'd be more inclined to say an "uneven" system. If you live in a well-to-do area, it can be absolutely excellent. California's inequalities really illustrate ths divide. If you grow up in a strong public education district, and follow it with an undergrad or grad degree at one of the University of California campuses.... I suspect that's one of the strongest public educational paths available on a massive scale (IIT and the Grande Ecoles may have higher numbers, but they are also much smaller). The US is also a great place to be a late bloomer - if you can do well in a community college and transfer to a UC, you have educational opportunities in your 30s, 40s and beyond that are typically closed off to you by that age in other countries.
And lastly, I do think the size and breadth of US Universities exceeds any other country. Not to say the US has a monopoly on this, but it's the overwhelming first.
Your comment is ridiculous, irrelevant (true or not, none of those things apply to the "skilled immigrants" in question), and intellectually dishonest. Save it for reddit, please.
It directly applies to the skilled immigrants in question. Since there are many better places in the world to live than in the US - what I said listed some reasons why the US is not a very good place to live.
Why are highly skilled immigrants choosing to go elsewhere? The reasons listed could be why they are leaving, and some of the reasons I listed are mentioned in the article.
As a highly skilled immigrant myself(who isn't in the US), those are a few of the problems I see with the US. There's lots of other good things, and bad things about it of course, those are just some important reasons not to live there.
I notice how you made a personal attack, rather than address any of the (true) facts I listed. You're also living in the US, which makes your comment even more questionable.
If you'd like to check what I said, the links listed have references to back it up.
Why are highly skilled immigrants choosing to go elsewhere? The reasons listed could be why they are leaving, and some of the reasons I listed are mentioned in the article.
As a highly skilled immigrant myself(who isn't in the US), those are a few of the problems I see with the US. There's lots of other good things, and bad things about it of course, those are just some important reasons not to live there.
I notice how you made a personal attack, rather than address any of the (true) facts I listed. You're also living in the US, which makes your comment even more questionable.
If you'd like to check what I said, the links listed have references to back it up.
I'm not interested in getting into an internet battle, especially not at HN. But I did not make a personal attack, I only criticized your comment (however, you did question my credibility based on where I live).
The problem with your comment is that it was irrelevant to the issue at hand. You're entitled to hold whatever political opinions you want, informed or not, but this isn't a site about politics and it wasn't a topic about politics, which is why your comment was inappropriate. If you want to rant about politics, there are plenty of other places to do that. But I would request that you allow HN to remain free of that sort of thing.
The problem with your comment is that it was irrelevant to the issue at hand. You're entitled to hold whatever political opinions you want, informed or not, but this isn't a site about politics and it wasn't a topic about politics, which is why your comment was inappropriate. If you want to rant about politics, there are plenty of other places to do that. But I would request that you allow HN to remain free of that sort of thing.
"Returnees said they were generally making less money in absolute terms, but they also said they enjoyed a higher quality of life."
That is exactly my case.
The only thing I miss about living in the U.S. is the opportunity to work for the very smart companies. (e.g Google, Amazon, etc.) But in any case if you are successful in your start up, you can create the smart company atmosphere yourself.
The barriers to migrate to the U.S. are absurd. I know people that have been waiting for ten years.
That is exactly my case.
The only thing I miss about living in the U.S. is the opportunity to work for the very smart companies. (e.g Google, Amazon, etc.) But in any case if you are successful in your start up, you can create the smart company atmosphere yourself.
The barriers to migrate to the U.S. are absurd. I know people that have been waiting for ten years.
This is sad. In my opinion immigrants are the best Americans. They work the hardest and they expect the fewest handouts. In DC the Ethiopian immigrants had the highest rate of employment of any demographic group. At first they work in parking garages and as cab drivers. But after a few years they own restaurants and small businesses. In Silicon Valley I'd say over half the people pitching VC's have a foreign accent. I think it's amazing that somehow people who barely speak the language can figure out where the money comes from and how to fund their dreams. Yet people who have been here for generations complain about a lack of opportunity. Immigrants are our greatest asset. We should be fast-tracking highly educated immigrants and make it nearly seamless for them to move here.
I hate to say it but, the ones with options are the good ones. The US is likely still the more attractive for those who come by the shovel-full.
Also, this was surprising:
> Chinese complained of pollution, reverse culture shock, /inferior education/ for children, frustration with government bureaucracy, and the quality of health care.
That Chinese elementary education is worse than the US' would come as a surprise to most people I'm sure.
Also, this was surprising:
> Chinese complained of pollution, reverse culture shock, /inferior education/ for children, frustration with government bureaucracy, and the quality of health care.
That Chinese elementary education is worse than the US' would come as a surprise to most people I'm sure.
The Chinese education system has a ridiculous variance when it comes to quality. In rural areas "education" is often close to non-existent, and even in cities parents constantly push their kids towards private schools (even at the elementary level), since the state ones are often of questionable quality as well.
As for the people with options - the US would do well for itself to retain the ones with options. These are the people your economy needs to most; you can do without a lot of the ones without options.
As for the people with options - the US would do well for itself to retain the ones with options. These are the people your economy needs to most; you can do without a lot of the ones without options.
I wonder how much of that is due to difference rather than genuine inferiority. My understanding is that the learning style in the US and China is very different.
Disclaimer: I've never visited China and I've spent a grand total of 3 days in the US. This may limit my ability to comment.
I've /heard/, only, mind, that Chinese reading/writing is so hard that kids spend up to 5th, 6th grade on it. Sure, schools in countries with Western languages do too but, my impression from where this info came was that it ate up a few more years of schooling all by itself.
I really doubt that learning a hard language would be detrimental to their education.
In many countries kids study 2 or more foreign languages and they are much better off because of it. The more you learn, the easier it is for you to learn more.
Plus, I've been studying Chinese writing and I don't think it's as hard as it looks to an outsider.
In many countries kids study 2 or more foreign languages and they are much better off because of it. The more you learn, the easier it is for you to learn more.
Plus, I've been studying Chinese writing and I don't think it's as hard as it looks to an outsider.
Educated Chinese Americans send their kids to private and very good (i.e. high property tax areas) public schools.
Something nobody ever mentions is that there is a huge rich/poor divide in public education quality, it's not universally terrible. The best public schools are just as good as private schools, and this is represented at elite universities.
Something nobody ever mentions is that there is a huge rich/poor divide in public education quality, it's not universally terrible. The best public schools are just as good as private schools, and this is represented at elite universities.
I heard from some of my international friends that new regulation has been passed that makes it increasingly hard for foreign nationals to stay in the US after university for skilled professions.
If this, I think that this will only be a detriment to the US, as we need the best skilled workers to maintain our global edge.
If this, I think that this will only be a detriment to the US, as we need the best skilled workers to maintain our global edge.
What American shouldn't want to import more taxpayers? The income threshold over which a family is a net contributor to the government probably isn't much about $60K. So, importing just about anyone with a skill would lead to a lower tax burden for all. And, it would improve the lives of the lowest paid Americans by creating more demand for basic services (house cleaning, lawn mowing, etc.)
I understand the labor unions' reluctance to allow unskilled immigration, but they ought to press toward allowing more skilled people as it would increase the demand for their members' services. Interestingly, I think most unions are now in favor of legalizing illegal immigrants -- kicking out 10M people seems undoable, so they're best served by eliminating the illegal, un-unionizable underclass.
I understand the labor unions' reluctance to allow unskilled immigration, but they ought to press toward allowing more skilled people as it would increase the demand for their members' services. Interestingly, I think most unions are now in favor of legalizing illegal immigrants -- kicking out 10M people seems undoable, so they're best served by eliminating the illegal, un-unionizable underclass.
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I heard from some of my international friends that new regulation has been passed that makes it increasingly hard for foreign nationals to stay in the US after university for skilled professions.
If this, I think that this will only be a detriment to the US, as we need the best skilled workers to maintain our global edge.
If this, I think that this will only be a detriment to the US, as we need the best skilled workers to maintain our global edge.
Globalization sounds rational only when Wage Slavery is prevented in developing nations.
Well,
If skilled immigrants are leaving U.S., and consider that there are many skilled workers that are not in U.S., then maybe it's the time to make a virtual Silicon Valley on the internet?
So regardless where you are, you can enter "the virtual" Silicon Valley, and you won't have to apply for a visa!
So regardless where you are, you can enter "the virtual" Silicon Valley, and you won't have to apply for a visa!