Hikikomori: The Postmodern Hermits of Japan(warscapes.com)
warscapes.com
Hikikomori: The Postmodern Hermits of Japan
http://www.warscapes.com/opinion/hikikomori-postmodern-hermits-japan
107 comments
So what happened?
You can only deal with the smell of stale pizza and unwashed armpits for so long. Before I completely let that lifestyle consume me, I decided to seek help and reached out to my local District Health Board.
Now I am still a bit of a recluse but I make it a point to physically leave the house and exercise at the gym. Going to and running local Meetups via Meetup.com helps with socializing.
The local library allows me to pick and read books outside of home and be surrounded by people, quiet but nonetheless present.
Medication also helps and continues to give me a wee boost.
It is surprising, though, how easy it is to slip back into that comfortable sleeve. A few weeks back UberEATS launched in New Zealand. It was also raining terribly with thunderstorms and the like. That was all I needed to spend two days tucked in bed with empty UberEATS bags and the sound of Space Ghost playing continuously off my laptop. If it hadn't been for my physical trainer messaging me on the Monday to remind me of training, I'd have stayed in that bed a good while longer.
Now I am still a bit of a recluse but I make it a point to physically leave the house and exercise at the gym. Going to and running local Meetups via Meetup.com helps with socializing.
The local library allows me to pick and read books outside of home and be surrounded by people, quiet but nonetheless present.
Medication also helps and continues to give me a wee boost.
It is surprising, though, how easy it is to slip back into that comfortable sleeve. A few weeks back UberEATS launched in New Zealand. It was also raining terribly with thunderstorms and the like. That was all I needed to spend two days tucked in bed with empty UberEATS bags and the sound of Space Ghost playing continuously off my laptop. If it hadn't been for my physical trainer messaging me on the Monday to remind me of training, I'd have stayed in that bed a good while longer.
I agree 100%! Welcome to the NHK is a great series, thanks to it, I was able to change my life around alot during my college years.
It's sad nowadays the biggest trap we have is that our place of residence is too comfortable. Outside we have to cave into social pressure, wear clothes, behave in a certain way.
Inside, you're free. You find ways to communicate, find online communities and procrastinate time 24/7 and your mind changes. Plasticity changes how you think and absorb information. Compared to traditional learning or talking, online information is instant.
It's a hard cycle to break. :(
It's sad nowadays the biggest trap we have is that our place of residence is too comfortable. Outside we have to cave into social pressure, wear clothes, behave in a certain way.
Inside, you're free. You find ways to communicate, find online communities and procrastinate time 24/7 and your mind changes. Plasticity changes how you think and absorb information. Compared to traditional learning or talking, online information is instant.
It's a hard cycle to break. :(
I strongly object to insinuation that people who are socially isolated and dependent in the physical world are almost by definition wasting their lives. Not everyone's spending their online lives doing nothing but surfing porn and Facebook.
They could have very rich online lives, where they are able to socialize - even very freely, competently, and confidently. They could be very creative online, or learning, producing, and contributing to all sorts of projects, from open source programming, bug fixing, or documenting to contributing to projects like Wikipedia to creating art or music, and so on. They could have many friends online, or perhaps the focus of a scholar. They could even be helping others on all sorts of online forums.
What's missing is the ability to support themselves and the lack of friends or a support network in the physical world. But what a lot of people from the old, mostly physical-only world miss is that the virtual world can often be as rich or sometimes even richer, more full of potential and free of limits than the physical world.
All sorts of achievements and connections are possible to a much greater extent virtually than physically. Many people can find social and emotional connections, creative and productive fulfilment, and a great education online, where they could have many problems in the physical world.
That's not always or necessarily a pathology. It's an expansion of possibilities, which are sometimes negative, but not always or necessarily so, and sometimes can be positive, growth-promoting, and can even lead to more physical contact -- as when someone who's active online find a kindred spirit online and then continues the relationship in person.
I'd love for there to be more research on how modern hermits spend their time online, rather than always fixating on a pathological interpretation of the choice of being solitary.
They could have very rich online lives, where they are able to socialize - even very freely, competently, and confidently. They could be very creative online, or learning, producing, and contributing to all sorts of projects, from open source programming, bug fixing, or documenting to contributing to projects like Wikipedia to creating art or music, and so on. They could have many friends online, or perhaps the focus of a scholar. They could even be helping others on all sorts of online forums.
What's missing is the ability to support themselves and the lack of friends or a support network in the physical world. But what a lot of people from the old, mostly physical-only world miss is that the virtual world can often be as rich or sometimes even richer, more full of potential and free of limits than the physical world.
All sorts of achievements and connections are possible to a much greater extent virtually than physically. Many people can find social and emotional connections, creative and productive fulfilment, and a great education online, where they could have many problems in the physical world.
That's not always or necessarily a pathology. It's an expansion of possibilities, which are sometimes negative, but not always or necessarily so, and sometimes can be positive, growth-promoting, and can even lead to more physical contact -- as when someone who's active online find a kindred spirit online and then continues the relationship in person.
I'd love for there to be more research on how modern hermits spend their time online, rather than always fixating on a pathological interpretation of the choice of being solitary.
> They could have very rich online lives, where they are able to socialize - even very freely, competently, and confidently. They could be very creative online, or learning, producing, and contributing to all sorts of projects, from open source programming, bug fixing, or documenting to contributing to projects like Wikipedia to creating art or music, and so on. They could have many friends online, or perhaps the focus of a scholar. They could even be helping others on all sorts of online forums.
They could, but they don't. To be blunt, you seem to be romanticizing the hikikomori phenomenon and know nothing about the reality of it.
Having spent some time in online communities where they hang out and flirted with the edges of the syndrome myself, these people are not doing anything resembling what you describe. They are, as the article says, "...spend[ing] the day daydreaming, reading, roaming the internet, flipping TV channels, floating in [their] room". They are most certainly not doing anything meaningful or constructive and they, themselves, are unhappily aware of it. It is an _illness_, for pity's sake.
They could, but they don't. To be blunt, you seem to be romanticizing the hikikomori phenomenon and know nothing about the reality of it.
Having spent some time in online communities where they hang out and flirted with the edges of the syndrome myself, these people are not doing anything resembling what you describe. They are, as the article says, "...spend[ing] the day daydreaming, reading, roaming the internet, flipping TV channels, floating in [their] room". They are most certainly not doing anything meaningful or constructive and they, themselves, are unhappily aware of it. It is an _illness_, for pity's sake.
I think whats is absent is the idea of online communities moving together- basically find a half abandoned village with good internet, and move there.
The western world is very obsessed with face time. Likely because those at the top are very good at it.
> All sorts of achievements and connections are possible to a much greater extent virtually than physically.
Like what? In any case, I don't think it matters much if you can't support yourself. If the achievements and connections don't translate to scope and agency then what are they worth?
It's certainly possible to do something worthwhile, generally fail in life, and only have the value of your work recognised after your death. This has happened to many artists who are now regarded as greats in their fields. But I think the online world makes it too easy to delude yourself into thinking what you're doing is worthwhile when in fact it isn't.
So much of the online world is premised on feedback loops and empty rewards, like levels in games or even karma points on Hacker News. You get "praised" by these systems just for using them. It can become an addiction like gambling can become an addiction. It becomes easy to lose perspective and waste time pursuing something that is ultimately valueless.
You gave the example of helping others in online forums. Let's say that's, for example, helping people with Microsoft Windows. I'd say all you're doing in that case is taking on the cost of Microsoft's software support. You're making the cost of doing business cheaper for Microsoft with no real return for yourself. Altruism is good, but I think too many people do it at too much cost to themselves.
In the end, if the expansion of possibilities doesn't result in real world returns then I think they cannot be called opportunities. They must be recognised as merely distractions.
Like what? In any case, I don't think it matters much if you can't support yourself. If the achievements and connections don't translate to scope and agency then what are they worth?
It's certainly possible to do something worthwhile, generally fail in life, and only have the value of your work recognised after your death. This has happened to many artists who are now regarded as greats in their fields. But I think the online world makes it too easy to delude yourself into thinking what you're doing is worthwhile when in fact it isn't.
So much of the online world is premised on feedback loops and empty rewards, like levels in games or even karma points on Hacker News. You get "praised" by these systems just for using them. It can become an addiction like gambling can become an addiction. It becomes easy to lose perspective and waste time pursuing something that is ultimately valueless.
You gave the example of helping others in online forums. Let's say that's, for example, helping people with Microsoft Windows. I'd say all you're doing in that case is taking on the cost of Microsoft's software support. You're making the cost of doing business cheaper for Microsoft with no real return for yourself. Altruism is good, but I think too many people do it at too much cost to themselves.
In the end, if the expansion of possibilities doesn't result in real world returns then I think they cannot be called opportunities. They must be recognised as merely distractions.
> So much of the online world is premised on feedback loops and empty rewards, like levels in games or even karma points on Hacker News. You get "praised" by these systems just for using them. It can become an addiction like gambling can become an addiction. It becomes easy to lose perspective and waste time pursuing something that is ultimately valueless.
This isn't endemic to the internet. Businesses have this problem and they have it way worse. And they lie about it too – no manager is going to tell you up front that you're walking into a dead-end job, and that a few years down the line you'll be poorer than you started and with no useful skills to show for it.
This isn't endemic to the internet. Businesses have this problem and they have it way worse. And they lie about it too – no manager is going to tell you up front that you're walking into a dead-end job, and that a few years down the line you'll be poorer than you started and with no useful skills to show for it.
> Like what?
This is not the best example, but things like helping hundreds or thousands of people on something like stackoverlow is an achievement in the virtual or online world that is simply not available in the physical world because stackoverflow only exists online. The same thing could be said of Wikipedia, which is essentially an online-only phenomena that you can not participate in in the physical world.
You could argue that people could be helped in the physical world instead of online on a site like stackoverflow, and one could contribute to a physical encyclopedia like the Britannica instead of Wikipeida: but the dynamics of these sites and media are very different, and I would argue they are not equivalent. Things like the policies, credentials, editorial policies, social dynamics, etc, are so different that they many ways more different than alike.
> I don't think it matters much if you can't support yourself
Well, the Hikikomori are not supporting themselves, but they could and often do manage to survive by the generous help of their families. Many ancient hermits and some modern ones survived by help from society. There is now talk of a living wage. All of these means of survival do not require the ability to support oneself, and can be viable -- though they are clearly very controversial.
> It's certainly possible to do something worthwhile, generally fail in life, and only have the value of your work recognised after your death. This has happened to many artists who are now regarded as greats in their fields. But I think the online world makes it too easy to delude yourself into thinking what you're doing is worthwhile when in fact it isn't.
Just because you aren't considered now or perhaps never to be a great in your field doesn't mean that what you do is not worthwhile. Much of science and academia is mostly the work of many non-great, ant-like contributors rather than the work of a handful of greats -- though the greats certainly get a lot more credit (sometimes justly, sometimes not).
Wikipedia is even more like hive mind rather than the result of the work of a few geniuses. In the modern world, even the idea of taking credit is in many cases collapsing and reverting to models that resemble the anonymous contributions of the ancients, as people adopt temporary pseudonyms as they join the hive to make their little contribution or edit and then exit again, to possibly reappear under another pseudonym for another contribution later, or not.
For all we know, Wikipedia could have been built mostly by Hikikomori.
> So much of the online world is premised on feedback loops and empty rewards, like levels in games or even karma points on Hacker News. You get "praised" by these systems just for using them. It can become an addiction like gambling can become an addiction. It becomes easy to lose perspective and waste time pursuing something that is ultimately valueless.
Sure. Absolutely. Completely agreed here. But just because that's possible doesn't mean that that's the only way to interact with these media and phenomena, nor that it's even the most prevalent way. Also, man "great" men and other prolific contributors to many things that are considered "great" could be said to have been obsessed or addicted. It's just that the successful ones and the ones societies value get the praise, while things unvalued (even if only temporarily) are ignored or even denigrated. But who really has perspective on the worth of some endeavor, especially a long-term perspective, as in how valuable your efforts might seem to someone hundreds or thousands of years in the future.
Look at all the minutia collected on Wikipedia. Much of it is considered garbage, but it could be a gold mine for pop culture scholars or future archaeologists or anthropologists.
> You gave the example of helping others in online forums. Let's say that's, for example, helping people with Microsoft Windows. I'd say all you're doing in that case is taking on the cost of Microsoft's software support. You're making the cost of doing business cheaper for Microsoft with no real return for yourself. Altruism is good, but I think too many people do it at too much cost to themselves.
I'd still take the position that providing free support for Microsoft is less of a waste of one's life than the typical view that the mass media has of online solitaries: that all they do is surf porn or Facebook all day. At least in the support case, they're helping people. That's constructive.
But there are tons of other ways of helping people on stackoverflow and online in general. Providing free support for corporations is just one very minor option. But even there, you're providing support not just for the corporations but for the users, which is a noble goal -- especially when it's done for free.
This is not the best example, but things like helping hundreds or thousands of people on something like stackoverlow is an achievement in the virtual or online world that is simply not available in the physical world because stackoverflow only exists online. The same thing could be said of Wikipedia, which is essentially an online-only phenomena that you can not participate in in the physical world.
You could argue that people could be helped in the physical world instead of online on a site like stackoverflow, and one could contribute to a physical encyclopedia like the Britannica instead of Wikipeida: but the dynamics of these sites and media are very different, and I would argue they are not equivalent. Things like the policies, credentials, editorial policies, social dynamics, etc, are so different that they many ways more different than alike.
> I don't think it matters much if you can't support yourself
Well, the Hikikomori are not supporting themselves, but they could and often do manage to survive by the generous help of their families. Many ancient hermits and some modern ones survived by help from society. There is now talk of a living wage. All of these means of survival do not require the ability to support oneself, and can be viable -- though they are clearly very controversial.
> It's certainly possible to do something worthwhile, generally fail in life, and only have the value of your work recognised after your death. This has happened to many artists who are now regarded as greats in their fields. But I think the online world makes it too easy to delude yourself into thinking what you're doing is worthwhile when in fact it isn't.
Just because you aren't considered now or perhaps never to be a great in your field doesn't mean that what you do is not worthwhile. Much of science and academia is mostly the work of many non-great, ant-like contributors rather than the work of a handful of greats -- though the greats certainly get a lot more credit (sometimes justly, sometimes not).
Wikipedia is even more like hive mind rather than the result of the work of a few geniuses. In the modern world, even the idea of taking credit is in many cases collapsing and reverting to models that resemble the anonymous contributions of the ancients, as people adopt temporary pseudonyms as they join the hive to make their little contribution or edit and then exit again, to possibly reappear under another pseudonym for another contribution later, or not.
For all we know, Wikipedia could have been built mostly by Hikikomori.
> So much of the online world is premised on feedback loops and empty rewards, like levels in games or even karma points on Hacker News. You get "praised" by these systems just for using them. It can become an addiction like gambling can become an addiction. It becomes easy to lose perspective and waste time pursuing something that is ultimately valueless.
Sure. Absolutely. Completely agreed here. But just because that's possible doesn't mean that that's the only way to interact with these media and phenomena, nor that it's even the most prevalent way. Also, man "great" men and other prolific contributors to many things that are considered "great" could be said to have been obsessed or addicted. It's just that the successful ones and the ones societies value get the praise, while things unvalued (even if only temporarily) are ignored or even denigrated. But who really has perspective on the worth of some endeavor, especially a long-term perspective, as in how valuable your efforts might seem to someone hundreds or thousands of years in the future.
Look at all the minutia collected on Wikipedia. Much of it is considered garbage, but it could be a gold mine for pop culture scholars or future archaeologists or anthropologists.
> You gave the example of helping others in online forums. Let's say that's, for example, helping people with Microsoft Windows. I'd say all you're doing in that case is taking on the cost of Microsoft's software support. You're making the cost of doing business cheaper for Microsoft with no real return for yourself. Altruism is good, but I think too many people do it at too much cost to themselves.
I'd still take the position that providing free support for Microsoft is less of a waste of one's life than the typical view that the mass media has of online solitaries: that all they do is surf porn or Facebook all day. At least in the support case, they're helping people. That's constructive.
But there are tons of other ways of helping people on stackoverflow and online in general. Providing free support for corporations is just one very minor option. But even there, you're providing support not just for the corporations but for the users, which is a noble goal -- especially when it's done for free.
> which is a noble goal -- especially when it's done for free.
Nothing is free. Everything has a cost. It's one thing to expend your own resources writing articles or helping people on Internet forums. It's quite another thing to impose that cost on other people. Sitting in your bedroom and living off your parent's resources is not noble.
There's nothing wrong with trying and failing. It's good to try, even when you fail. But there's nothing good about a situation where you're not even trying to find a way to support yourself.
Nothing is free. Everything has a cost. It's one thing to expend your own resources writing articles or helping people on Internet forums. It's quite another thing to impose that cost on other people. Sitting in your bedroom and living off your parent's resources is not noble.
There's nothing wrong with trying and failing. It's good to try, even when you fail. But there's nothing good about a situation where you're not even trying to find a way to support yourself.
So who owns the air that you breathe?
The Universe, man. As I consume resources in the process of maintaining a highly ordered state for the duration of my lifetime, I cause an increase in the overall level of entropy in the universe and hurry along the heat death of everything. Nothing is free. Everything has a cost.
Life does not take the shortest route to entropy.
The original point of the parent was obviously cost as in money.
My point was that "only expending your own resources" as in "you need to pay for your resources (with your own money) before you can morally do thing x" is rather problematic.
The original point of the parent was obviously cost as in money.
My point was that "only expending your own resources" as in "you need to pay for your resources (with your own money) before you can morally do thing x" is rather problematic.
> empty rewards, like levels in games or even karma points on Hacker News.
If you're a programmer, you can always brag at work about your four-digit (or whatever) HN account :)
If you're a programmer, you can always brag at work about your four-digit (or whatever) HN account :)
There are, and will always be, people whom may not be able to find societal-defined utility or whom cannot support themselves. And, for the forseeable future, there will tend to be a general labor oversupply (overpopulation + auomation) which creates a need for basic income... the top 1% can't hoard most wealth while others suffer in squalor and oppressive wage-slavery.
Gwern discusses this in his essay at https://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20S...
He makes an interesting point that by withdrawing from larger society into sub cultures, people can return to dealing with groups of a size our minds are more comfortable with. It's the same reason small towns are (I hear) less socially stressful. I am not convinced though. In larger society I end up dealing with relatively small groups anyway - friends, family, and co-workers.
It seems pretty straight-forward that people would want focus on their interests and spend their time communicating with people that share those interests. It's definitely unfair and unfortunate that other people end up supporting them financially. With that said, we'll eventually have to come to terms with vast numbers of people not being economically productive anyway. People will have to do something. Withdrawing from society at large in favor of the parts of it that interest them seems like a fine choice.
He makes an interesting point that by withdrawing from larger society into sub cultures, people can return to dealing with groups of a size our minds are more comfortable with. It's the same reason small towns are (I hear) less socially stressful. I am not convinced though. In larger society I end up dealing with relatively small groups anyway - friends, family, and co-workers.
It seems pretty straight-forward that people would want focus on their interests and spend their time communicating with people that share those interests. It's definitely unfair and unfortunate that other people end up supporting them financially. With that said, we'll eventually have to come to terms with vast numbers of people not being economically productive anyway. People will have to do something. Withdrawing from society at large in favor of the parts of it that interest them seems like a fine choice.
"It's the same reason small towns are (I hear) less socially stressful. I am not convinced though. In larger society I end up dealing with relatively small groups anyway - friends, family, and co-workers."
There's a fundamental difference. In a small town, most of the people around you are usually known to you and friendly. In a bigger town, you tend not to know/trust more people directly around you. Kids spend much less time at the local park and more time indoors. I wrote a posting recently talking about social pressures of our modern day and part of my post was comparing the communities around us today vs 50 years ago.
I'm lucky that I live in a suburb where I know many people around me. My friends (who don't live locally) and extended family are both surprised and envious at how lucky we are being surrounded by friendly and generous people. Frequently popping in, bringing home made cakes, jams etc. I love it! As an example, I had a neighbour bring my wife some flowers recently for no particular reason.
I am fairly certain that our modern lifestyles and socialisation with neighbours is far more stressful than it used to be, judging by most people I know.
There's a fundamental difference. In a small town, most of the people around you are usually known to you and friendly. In a bigger town, you tend not to know/trust more people directly around you. Kids spend much less time at the local park and more time indoors. I wrote a posting recently talking about social pressures of our modern day and part of my post was comparing the communities around us today vs 50 years ago.
I'm lucky that I live in a suburb where I know many people around me. My friends (who don't live locally) and extended family are both surprised and envious at how lucky we are being surrounded by friendly and generous people. Frequently popping in, bringing home made cakes, jams etc. I love it! As an example, I had a neighbour bring my wife some flowers recently for no particular reason.
I am fairly certain that our modern lifestyles and socialisation with neighbours is far more stressful than it used to be, judging by most people I know.
Escape from reality is not limited to culture, race, economic background, or a society's technological advancement; it has always been a part of the human condition. In modern times, a unique form of escape presents itself with great force in affluent societies, even though the "escape artist" him/her-self need not live in an affluent environment. The escape artist requires these basics: (1) shelter, however primitive, (2) a food source, and (3) either a television (TV), video games (VG), or internet connection (IC).
TV/VG/IC is the escape mechanism, and the escape artist, whether he/she stays in the 4 walls of his/her room or occasionally ventures out, lives in the confines of his/her escape world.
Perhaps we can consider aspects of "Hikikomori" as a uniquely Japanese manifestation of this condition, mingling itself in fascinating fashion with Japanese cultural nuances.
Thought experiments: Would Boo Radley have been a hikikomori if he lived in Kyoto rather than Maycomb, Alabama?
What are the differences and similarities between: (1) a hikikomori living in Kyoto, (2) a person living in inner city Detroit, MI, living from welfare check to welfare check and watching TV 16 hours a day, and (3) a college dropout living with his parents in suburbia and watching TV 16 hours a day?
In what ways is a hikikomori who programs different than the TV/VG/IC escape artist?
Would Boo Radley have saved Jem and Scout Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird" if he had been playing video games 16 hours a day?
Find two studies whose authors claim watching television: develops a sense of wonder, encourages critical thought, benefits interpersonal relationship skills, solidifies familial bonds, promotes physical well-being, reduces the objectivization of persons, cures depression, increases patience and self-control, reduces sense of entitlement, grows positive self-worth, and decreases worry, sense of isolation, and self-pity. Next, find studies coming to the opposite conclusion.
TV/VG/IC is the escape mechanism, and the escape artist, whether he/she stays in the 4 walls of his/her room or occasionally ventures out, lives in the confines of his/her escape world.
Perhaps we can consider aspects of "Hikikomori" as a uniquely Japanese manifestation of this condition, mingling itself in fascinating fashion with Japanese cultural nuances.
Thought experiments: Would Boo Radley have been a hikikomori if he lived in Kyoto rather than Maycomb, Alabama?
What are the differences and similarities between: (1) a hikikomori living in Kyoto, (2) a person living in inner city Detroit, MI, living from welfare check to welfare check and watching TV 16 hours a day, and (3) a college dropout living with his parents in suburbia and watching TV 16 hours a day?
In what ways is a hikikomori who programs different than the TV/VG/IC escape artist?
Would Boo Radley have saved Jem and Scout Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird" if he had been playing video games 16 hours a day?
Find two studies whose authors claim watching television: develops a sense of wonder, encourages critical thought, benefits interpersonal relationship skills, solidifies familial bonds, promotes physical well-being, reduces the objectivization of persons, cures depression, increases patience and self-control, reduces sense of entitlement, grows positive self-worth, and decreases worry, sense of isolation, and self-pity. Next, find studies coming to the opposite conclusion.
This article bugged me. It seems like a Columbine style which hunt. Some people killed some other people. The killers played video games. Therefore beware evil video games. In this case it was some people killed some other people. Those people were hikkikomori. Therefore hikkikomori equals latent murderer.
There were lots of other stereotypes, judgements, misunderstandings etc...
It felt very much over sensationalized, exaggerated, and wrong on so many levels
There were lots of other stereotypes, judgements, misunderstandings etc...
It felt very much over sensationalized, exaggerated, and wrong on so many levels
Alienation, atomization of communities, and commoditization of people are features of capitalism, not bugs. Just saying.
Sad, and socialism and communism has starvation and death.
The god of biomechanics is too cruel.
The god of biomechanics is too cruel.
Totalitarian communism is not the only alternative to capitalism.
site appears to be down...
This ties in with yesterday's article about young people staying home and playing video games.
The article mentions "Welcome to the NHK"[1], which is an unusually bitter anime.
[1] http://www.gogoanime.to/welcome-to-the-nhk-episode-1
The article mentions "Welcome to the NHK"[1], which is an unusually bitter anime.
[1] http://www.gogoanime.to/welcome-to-the-nhk-episode-1
While there are much better sites than gogo for watching anime (Flash? ugh), I absolutely second the recommendation to check out Welcome to the NHK.
Welcome to the NHK is the nightmare and the messias of all hikikomoris. Awesome drama and funny too. +1 for this recommendation
I also recommend it, and this is one of the rare animes where I can say I actually prefer the English dub over subtitles due to the raucous and raunchy nature of the series.
Although in my opinion the plot went completely off the rails by episode 6 and failed to recapture its original charm at every bizarre twist and turn. Either way, I still watched it through to the end.
Although in my opinion the plot went completely off the rails by episode 6 and failed to recapture its original charm at every bizarre twist and turn. Either way, I still watched it through to the end.
Check out animeftw
If you're going to pirate anime, please don't do it on a streaming site with ads.
Unless you use adblock, there isn't a pirate streaming service for anime that doesn't have ads. Even the non-streaming bittorrent trackers have ads. How can you pay for a server to host anime if pirates are trying to avoid paying money?
Some of them run on goodwill, it's not very expensive to host a tracker. Nyaa runs on JList ads.
>The article mentions "Welcome to the NHK"[1], which is an unusually bitter anime.
Say what you will, but I found it to be excellent.
Say what you will, but I found it to be excellent.
I mean, I think you're both right. It was "excellent" in the way that Requiem for a Dream was excellent; i.e., it was excellent and I never want to watch it again.
Is your username a reference to Stephenson's Anathem?
If so, and given your assessment of Requiem for a Dream, I probably have very similar tastes as you and might have to actually watch Welcome to the NHK in the near future.
If so, and given your assessment of Requiem for a Dream, I probably have very similar tastes as you and might have to actually watch Welcome to the NHK in the near future.
It is!
I mean, sort of. The word "analemma" predates the book ;) but that's where I got it.
I mean, sort of. The word "analemma" predates the book ;) but that's where I got it.
Hikikomori is also a minor phenomenon in Italy. It seems that a positive family environment, unchecked Internet consumption and bleak job prospects play a major role. Welcome to NHK is inspired by a much sadder book, but the anime captures the hikikomori mindset well enough.
> It seems that a positive family environment
This alone seems to suggest that the Italian version may be completely different; hikikomori isolate themselves from their families as well, which is one of the very weird traits about it for Japanese people.
This alone seems to suggest that the Italian version may be completely different; hikikomori isolate themselves from their families as well, which is one of the very weird traits about it for Japanese people.
As with anything, there's a spectrum to these things. Some will interact positively with their family but won't venture out of the house at all. Some might occasionally go out of the house as well. The western media's portrayal is a bit extreme and sensationalist (surprise!).
Is a negative family environment common/typical/frequent for the hikikomori?
It's the overprotective and overcaring parents who enable this behavior in the first place.
I disagree. It's the cultural reaction of being self-resilient and maintaining face against the structural pressures that capitalism presents in economies that started to stagnate since the early 90s.
The evidence I see to support the observation above is the recent rise of "Wae To Ri" in South Korea since the economy started to stagnate post Asian Financial crisis. It's identical to hikkikomori. I see this in other economically stagnant European countries as well, for example in Spain or Portugal where 1/2 young people are unemployed.
The evidence I see to support the observation above is the recent rise of "Wae To Ri" in South Korea since the economy started to stagnate post Asian Financial crisis. It's identical to hikkikomori. I see this in other economically stagnant European countries as well, for example in Spain or Portugal where 1/2 young people are unemployed.
> It's the cultural reaction of being self-resilient and maintaining face against the structural pressures that capitalism presents in economies that started to stagnate since the early 90s.
Or maybe the kid simply has been pampered all his life and has never been properly incentivized at working towards independence. Occam's razor and all.
Or maybe the kid simply has been pampered all his life and has never been properly incentivized at working towards independence. Occam's razor and all.
>the kid
We're talking about millions of people. When you get to scale that large, you are talking about society and culture, not individual choices. To have millions of people change their behavior is to change the society and culture.
We're talking about millions of people. When you get to scale that large, you are talking about society and culture, not individual choices. To have millions of people change their behavior is to change the society and culture.
I'm not aware if he is referring to the Japanese or the Italian phenomena (they have common roots but are very different).
In Italy, I see many friends entrapped in this kind of behaviour, the major causes are:
- The corruption of the bankers that are stealing an increasing quantity of money from the people (regardless if you're poor or rich or if you work or not).
This factor is not only creating a major problem for the younger, but is a concurring cause of concern for the other generations as well: they're committing suicide more and more and more often than ever before.
- The rejection of both the cultural roots of christianity and consumerism, combined with a strict thinking about what is considered an accepted social behaviour and a strict regulation of the market to prevent if from a total collapse.
- An unrestricted and unregulated immigration crisis that provides an ever cheaper quantity of individuals willing to work for a miserable wage.
- Least but not least the total incompetence of the government and the EU, both blocked by a strict thought of political correctness that keeps them from applying needed actions that would properly respond to changes in the local and global, economical and geopolitical landscape.
It is indeed a problem of the culture of the society, and the hikikomori phenomena is only one of the consequences of a society that is forced to change, but is not able to do it properly.
In Italy, I see many friends entrapped in this kind of behaviour, the major causes are:
- The corruption of the bankers that are stealing an increasing quantity of money from the people (regardless if you're poor or rich or if you work or not).
This factor is not only creating a major problem for the younger, but is a concurring cause of concern for the other generations as well: they're committing suicide more and more and more often than ever before.
- The rejection of both the cultural roots of christianity and consumerism, combined with a strict thinking about what is considered an accepted social behaviour and a strict regulation of the market to prevent if from a total collapse.
- An unrestricted and unregulated immigration crisis that provides an ever cheaper quantity of individuals willing to work for a miserable wage.
- Least but not least the total incompetence of the government and the EU, both blocked by a strict thought of political correctness that keeps them from applying needed actions that would properly respond to changes in the local and global, economical and geopolitical landscape.
It is indeed a problem of the culture of the society, and the hikikomori phenomena is only one of the consequences of a society that is forced to change, but is not able to do it properly.
> When you get to scale that large, you are talking about society and culture, not individual choices.
A society and culture that pampers their children instead of making them learn their place in the world? I wasn't speaking about him in particular, but rather the parenting culture that created this reclusive and apathetic behavior.
A society and culture that pampers their children instead of making them learn their place in the world? I wasn't speaking about him in particular, but rather the parenting culture that created this reclusive and apathetic behavior.
Still less dangerous than a society and culture that pampers bankers and the rich at the expense of everyone else.
The "Why don't you take responsibility for your failure?" question is self-serving and abusive. The reality is that competitive neoliberal capitalism has created a culture in which success is - quite literally - not an option for the majority of the population.
This happens to be a very self-destructive way to run a culture. It's brittle, it has multiple failure modes, it's maladaptive and unable to deal realistically with challenges, and over the medium term onwards it's inherently unstable.
So people will opt out from it. They'll either opt out inwards, as these hermits do, or they'll opt out outwards, which is a guaranteed way to create some suicidally destructive political messes.
The "Why don't you take responsibility for your failure?" question is self-serving and abusive. The reality is that competitive neoliberal capitalism has created a culture in which success is - quite literally - not an option for the majority of the population.
This happens to be a very self-destructive way to run a culture. It's brittle, it has multiple failure modes, it's maladaptive and unable to deal realistically with challenges, and over the medium term onwards it's inherently unstable.
So people will opt out from it. They'll either opt out inwards, as these hermits do, or they'll opt out outwards, which is a guaranteed way to create some suicidally destructive political messes.
Which article are you talking about? I've tried using HN's search to find it, but my google-fu is failing me.
[deleted]
I appreciate the article--I spent about a year as kind of hikikomori.
Nevertheless I feel the need to make some minor critiques...I feel the author makes a number of small errors in trying to prove their point. For example, the author says:
"The Hikikomori phenomenon is now finding a form of narrative legitimacy in cinema, manga and pop culture. It is creating its own iconography. The novel Welcome to NHK (acronym for Nihon Hikikomori Kyōkai or The Japanese Hikikomori Association) plays with the name of Japan national broadcasting giant (NHK) and a story of a conspiracy to create the Hikikomori. The novel became a manga series and a twenty-four episodes anime series. Since then Hikikomori characters multiplied in anime and manga: Rozen Maiden, Serial Experiments Lain, Tatami Galaxy, Anohana: The Flower We Saw That Day, to name a few."
Welcome to the NHK is a novel from 2002, and the anime came out in 2006 iirc, so "now finding a form of narrative legitimacy" is maybe a bit disingenuous...and Serial Experiments Lain, which is from 1998, predated it and to my mind more properly fits alongside other cyberpunk meditations on technology and identity (interestingly, though, there is an 2channel-styled imageboard that has adopted Lain as its mascot). Similarly, I don't think someone would watch Tatami Galaxy or AnoHana and come away from those thinking that the "dominant theme" is about hikikomori-ness. At least, I didn't. You could certainly contest these points, though--the author's method of speeding through points that, if more properly explored, might not fit so cleanly into the essay's thrust, just left a bad taste in my mouth. Just my 2c.
It just crossed my mind that the American writer Tao Lin makes a number of explicit references to this lifestyle in his work; he has an ebook called "Hikikomori", which I haven't read, and his novels almost always have the main character spending days or months not really talking to anyone, feeling depressed, and just "doing things" on the internet. He has a book coming out in the future called "Leave Society".
If anyone knows of other American authors who treat this topic, would be interested. I feel like it has certainly come up in literature, just not under this name.
Nevertheless I feel the need to make some minor critiques...I feel the author makes a number of small errors in trying to prove their point. For example, the author says:
"The Hikikomori phenomenon is now finding a form of narrative legitimacy in cinema, manga and pop culture. It is creating its own iconography. The novel Welcome to NHK (acronym for Nihon Hikikomori Kyōkai or The Japanese Hikikomori Association) plays with the name of Japan national broadcasting giant (NHK) and a story of a conspiracy to create the Hikikomori. The novel became a manga series and a twenty-four episodes anime series. Since then Hikikomori characters multiplied in anime and manga: Rozen Maiden, Serial Experiments Lain, Tatami Galaxy, Anohana: The Flower We Saw That Day, to name a few."
Welcome to the NHK is a novel from 2002, and the anime came out in 2006 iirc, so "now finding a form of narrative legitimacy" is maybe a bit disingenuous...and Serial Experiments Lain, which is from 1998, predated it and to my mind more properly fits alongside other cyberpunk meditations on technology and identity (interestingly, though, there is an 2channel-styled imageboard that has adopted Lain as its mascot). Similarly, I don't think someone would watch Tatami Galaxy or AnoHana and come away from those thinking that the "dominant theme" is about hikikomori-ness. At least, I didn't. You could certainly contest these points, though--the author's method of speeding through points that, if more properly explored, might not fit so cleanly into the essay's thrust, just left a bad taste in my mouth. Just my 2c.
It just crossed my mind that the American writer Tao Lin makes a number of explicit references to this lifestyle in his work; he has an ebook called "Hikikomori", which I haven't read, and his novels almost always have the main character spending days or months not really talking to anyone, feeling depressed, and just "doing things" on the internet. He has a book coming out in the future called "Leave Society".
If anyone knows of other American authors who treat this topic, would be interested. I feel like it has certainly come up in literature, just not under this name.
Yeah, Lain jumped out to me as a questionable inclusion in that list as well. It has hikikomori themes, though I wouldn't have thought of it that way before, but no major characters are hikikomori. OTOH Tatami Galaxy makes sense to me, given the analysis paralysis sort of thing going on in that, even if it isn't always directly about hikikomori. Rozen Maiden is really the only straightforward choice there.
Don't you feel the Lain character was on the fast track to become an hikikomori if the in-story universe didn't follow through with the scifi/fantasy storyline ?
I don't because Lain became steadily more outgoing with each episode.
Ah, you are right. I forgot about that.
DFW examines this phenomenon, obtusely, in Infinite Jest. None of his characters are Hikikomori (and honestly a book about someone sitting around and doing nothing sounds a tad boring and self-absorbed, but I'll have to read Leave Society to find out), but they are all forced to deal with a world over saturated with drugs, politics, sex, tennis, and the TV/video media.
Orin, the main character's older brother, becomes a semi-recluse/sociopath, which is the closest character to an explicit Hikikomori DFW paints in the book. The other major characters rely on other forms of relief to cope with their anxiety, depression, family issues, etc.
DFW wrote Infinite Jest in 1996 before the internet truly took over. I'd love to see another book tackle the issues and repercussions of internet-soaked culture the way DFW tackled the nature of addiction in Infinite Jest.
Orin, the main character's older brother, becomes a semi-recluse/sociopath, which is the closest character to an explicit Hikikomori DFW paints in the book. The other major characters rely on other forms of relief to cope with their anxiety, depression, family issues, etc.
DFW wrote Infinite Jest in 1996 before the internet truly took over. I'd love to see another book tackle the issues and repercussions of internet-soaked culture the way DFW tackled the nature of addiction in Infinite Jest.
>a book about someone sitting around and doing nothing sounds a tad boring
May I refer you to the 1859 Russian classic Oblomov -- "Oblomov is a young, generous nobleman who seems incapable of making important decisions or undertaking any significant actions. Throughout the novel he rarely leaves his room or bed. In the first 50 pages, he manages only to move from his bed to a chair."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblomov
Oblomov is more a treatise on 19th-century Russian nobility, but I find it interesting that lethargy and lack of direction has been democratized. :)
May I refer you to the 1859 Russian classic Oblomov -- "Oblomov is a young, generous nobleman who seems incapable of making important decisions or undertaking any significant actions. Throughout the novel he rarely leaves his room or bed. In the first 50 pages, he manages only to move from his bed to a chair."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblomov
Oblomov is more a treatise on 19th-century Russian nobility, but I find it interesting that lethargy and lack of direction has been democratized. :)
Interesting...sounds very Russian. My favorite book of all time, Blood Meridian, tracks a 17 year-old adolescent known only as "the kid" and a motley band of cowboys he falls in with as they run across Texas/Mexico/California in 1850 killing indians, mexicans, and each other. Perhaps I'll enjoy what sounds like its polar opposite.
We used to have work and war to keep the youth busy. Now, in developed countries, we have...virtual work and war...video games. Part of me thinks that Japan got hit with this phenomenon earlier than the US because they were outlawed from having an army for the past 60 years.
We used to have work and war to keep the youth busy. Now, in developed countries, we have...virtual work and war...video games. Part of me thinks that Japan got hit with this phenomenon earlier than the US because they were outlawed from having an army for the past 60 years.
> My favorite book of all time, Blood Meridian
I'm reading Blood Meridian for the second time now - I think I like it even more now than the first time.
I'm reading Blood Meridian for the second time now - I think I like it even more now than the first time.
After reading Blood Meridian, I needed to read a book to explain to me what Blood Meridian was really all about.
There are many trains of thought.
Personally, I think if you're looking for a strong argument about a single direction for such a thematically complicated novel, you might look at Mavericks at the Border: The Early Southwest in Historical Fiction and Film.
Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Mavericks-Border-Southwest-Historical...
Personally, I think if you're looking for a strong argument about a single direction for such a thematically complicated novel, you might look at Mavericks at the Border: The Early Southwest in Historical Fiction and Film.
Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Mavericks-Border-Southwest-Historical...
Predating that by a few years is the classical Melville story of Bartleby the Scrivener, who, stuck in a dead-end white collar job, 'prefers' not to do anything at all.
Bartleby the Scrivener is good too. The hikkomori prefer not to, as well.
Or "Murphy" by Samuel Beckett. He takes it to the limit.
I agree Lain was an odd choice.
For a more recent exploration of it, ReLIFE is interesting. The main character is a former salaryman-turned-freeter, not a hikikomori, but the "experiment" is for helping NEETs, and one of their other subjects is implied to have been a hikikomori.
For a more recent exploration of it, ReLIFE is interesting. The main character is a former salaryman-turned-freeter, not a hikikomori, but the "experiment" is for helping NEETs, and one of their other subjects is implied to have been a hikikomori.
For anyone interested, you can watch it for free, legally, here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/relife (you can read it too but that needs a subscription, oddly).
i was a bit of a hiki for awhile as a teen. i didnt goto HS or anything, i just stayed in my room and sat on 4chan for years.
for me i think it was that the combination of some unmedicated mental issues i didnt know i had yet, and a bad family situation, had left me barely able to cope with being alive.
on the bright side i got my start with tech/programming/etc with all that free time. thanks /g/ haha
on the bright side i got my start with tech/programming/etc with all that free time. thanks /g/ haha
I guess when I was working on my SaaS, I was in a similar situation for a few years. I didn't have any social interactions. Just coding and peddling monthly subscriptions for years and years.
Were there underlying issues that drove me to such extremes? I think so.
But I really thought that I could pull it off.
Were there underlying issues that drove me to such extremes? I think so.
But I really thought that I could pull it off.
tidas thrad
I just saw https://youtu.be/Jyfnl8K8fJM which covers this topic quite well
I feel like this is the future for tomorrow's generation. As artificial intelligence's economies of scale proves to be far more seductive than exploiting human labor, unskilled white/blue collar labor will disappear.
As jobs become scarce like they have become in Japan and Korea, intense competition will inevitably produce 'losers'. Losers in the context of a structural pressure imposed on those that fail to keep up.
I feel like there's a connection between neo-Confucian societies and hikkikomori. It's also a rising phenomenon in South Korea.
As jobs become scarce like they have become in Japan and Korea, intense competition will inevitably produce 'losers'. Losers in the context of a structural pressure imposed on those that fail to keep up.
I feel like there's a connection between neo-Confucian societies and hikkikomori. It's also a rising phenomenon in South Korea.
How about the United States, where a person's value depends to a large extent on the amount of money they make, and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is the prevailing mentality?
saw this recently on HN: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working[1]. I know that "not working" and "not leaving your bedroom" are differnt things, but maybe that's what makes it "American".
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13795397
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13795397
A really interesting question:
Let's assume that AI does explode, and it does obsolete jobs like a steamroller in a glass sculpture exhibition.
Which culture is best prepared, by its nature, to face the tremendous tsunami of unemployment in a way that minimizes overall suffering and leads to the best long-term outcome?
Take your pick from: american "bootstraps culture", asian post-confucianism, west european "humane capitalism", east european post-communism, south asian (okay: indian) semi-socialism, etc, etc.
P.S.: The designations are a little bit tongue in cheek, don't take them literally.
Let's assume that AI does explode, and it does obsolete jobs like a steamroller in a glass sculpture exhibition.
Which culture is best prepared, by its nature, to face the tremendous tsunami of unemployment in a way that minimizes overall suffering and leads to the best long-term outcome?
Take your pick from: american "bootstraps culture", asian post-confucianism, west european "humane capitalism", east european post-communism, south asian (okay: indian) semi-socialism, etc, etc.
P.S.: The designations are a little bit tongue in cheek, don't take them literally.
With the trend towards automation, hikikomori are just ahead of the curve. I am sure there will come a day when almost anyone will be able to "retreat" in their own space and never leave again. The recluse will create worlds and experiences where they spend their time, and it will become very difficult to reach them, if not impossible.
Before automation, people had to reach out, to meet other people in order to survive. Maybe in Japan they used "parents" as an automation of sort, in order to separate themselves from other people, but with the advent of internet and home deliveries, it becomes easier and easier to be a recluse. Especially that there is company and a whole culture around this lifestyle.
Before automation, people had to reach out, to meet other people in order to survive. Maybe in Japan they used "parents" as an automation of sort, in order to separate themselves from other people, but with the advent of internet and home deliveries, it becomes easier and easier to be a recluse. Especially that there is company and a whole culture around this lifestyle.
I am sure there will come a day when almost anyone will be able to "retreat" in their own space and never leave again.
"The Machine Stops", by E. M. Forster, is the classic on this. Published in 1909, it doesn't sound dated today.
"Imagine, if you can, a small room, hexagonal in shape, like the cell of a bee. It is lighted neither by window nor by lamp, yet it is filled with a soft radiance. There are no apertures for ventilation, yet the air is fresh. There are no musical instruments, and yet, at the moment that my meditation opens, this room is throbbing with melodious sounds. An armchair is in the centre, by its side a reading-desk - that is all the furniture. And in the armchair there sits a swaddled lump of flesh - a woman, about five feet high, with a face as white as a fungus. It is to her that the little room belongs."
...
"Vashanti's next move was to turn off the isolation switch, and all the accumulations of the last three minutes burst upon her. The room was filled with the noise of bells, and speaking-tubes. What was the new food like? Could she recommend it? Has she had any ideas lately? Might one tell her one's own ideas? Would she make an engagement to visit the public nurseries at an early date? - say this day month."
"The Machine Stops", by E. M. Forster, is the classic on this. Published in 1909, it doesn't sound dated today.
"Imagine, if you can, a small room, hexagonal in shape, like the cell of a bee. It is lighted neither by window nor by lamp, yet it is filled with a soft radiance. There are no apertures for ventilation, yet the air is fresh. There are no musical instruments, and yet, at the moment that my meditation opens, this room is throbbing with melodious sounds. An armchair is in the centre, by its side a reading-desk - that is all the furniture. And in the armchair there sits a swaddled lump of flesh - a woman, about five feet high, with a face as white as a fungus. It is to her that the little room belongs."
...
"Vashanti's next move was to turn off the isolation switch, and all the accumulations of the last three minutes burst upon her. The room was filled with the noise of bells, and speaking-tubes. What was the new food like? Could she recommend it? Has she had any ideas lately? Might one tell her one's own ideas? Would she make an engagement to visit the public nurseries at an early date? - say this day month."
Probably the Israelis. Constantly living with existential uncertainties and surviving them will likely be useful down the road.
I would think cultures where technology is not all-pervasive + those which have strong social ties - would do well. E.g. West Asia.
Edit: typo
Edit: typo
I'm not disputing your point in general, but jobs are not scarce in Japan. They have very low unemployment and it's quite easy to get a job if you don't care what it is. They are mostly poorly paid service jobs with no career prospects though.
I don't know what's worse. Not offering 1 job with livable wage but splitting it amongst multiple workers along with the livable wage.
I didn't read Escape to Another World[0] until today, but it has a similar point. Could it be that the West, as has been the case in other areas, is following the same path as Japan as it turns around the demographic transition? Does Japan have the same pseudo-sociopathic self-help movements that grew up in the US in response to people leaving society?
[0] https://www.1843magazine.com/features/escape-to-another-worl...
[0] https://www.1843magazine.com/features/escape-to-another-worl...
There's a solo RPG titled after the phenomenon that, I feel, pretty well captures he idea and feeling of being a hiki. It's a kind of 'week in the life' game, where the narrative occurs entirely in the form of journal entries that you write to make sense of your rolls. Very chilling, in some playthroughs.
http://dsg.neko-machi.com/hikikomori.pdf
http://dsg.neko-machi.com/hikikomori.pdf
There's also Yume Nikki, which is surreal and fascinating, about a hikikomori girl who travels through her dreams.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yume_Nikki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yume_Nikki
This feels like the perfect thing to try to stuff in RenPy and gain minor internet fame\notoriety.
I was excited for a moment, but then I saw the PDF.
This is a tabletop RPG not a regular RPG usually connotated as a video game.
Nonetheless, it's still pretty interesting.
This is a tabletop RPG not a regular RPG usually connotated as a video game.
Nonetheless, it's still pretty interesting.
Probably a generational difference, but RPG definitely doesn't imply video game to me. Back when I was young, I saw CRPG (Computer RPG) used for bards-tale style games, and JRPG (Japanese RPG) used for DQ style games. I haven't seen CRPG used since the late 90s, but JRPG is sometimes still seen.
While we're discussing RPG terminology, more serious players of systems that do not place emphasis on tactical combat might also object to the term "tabletop" as a catchall for the non-computer RPGs, as that term historically refers to RPGs with roots in tactical war-games, such as D&D (though you do need some place to put your wine glass for a truly authentic of "The Extraordinary Adventurse of Baron Muchausesn").
While we're discussing RPG terminology, more serious players of systems that do not place emphasis on tactical combat might also object to the term "tabletop" as a catchall for the non-computer RPGs, as that term historically refers to RPGs with roots in tactical war-games, such as D&D (though you do need some place to put your wine glass for a truly authentic of "The Extraordinary Adventurse of Baron Muchausesn").
Different people have different expectations. I have friends that still insist videogame RPGs be called CRPGs, because they are the younger upstart and tabletop the original.
This might be just an oriental way of living. I am not sure why researchers are hell bent on classifying almost anything as some kind of mental issue. I frequently stepped out of workspace to grab a hot coffee and my psychologist friend told me that drinking hot beverages frequently is a person's way of coping to the lack of emotional warmth in life by replacing it with material warmth!
I think it's more that these roles seem to prefer studying phenomena from an outside point of view - some believe that by immersing themselves in the culture, they would lose their objectivity (also, this appears to be a particularly difficult culture to immerse oneself in, as by the definition presented in this article, having deep social interactions with a Hikikomori makes him/her less of a Hikikomori).
I think really the key is to work your way into the place where you can relate to the people you're studying, but still understand the person you were before / the status quo.
I think really the key is to work your way into the place where you can relate to the people you're studying, but still understand the person you were before / the status quo.
> (also, this appears to be a particularly difficult culture to immerse oneself in, as by the definition presented in this article, having deep social interactions with a Hikikomori makes him/her less of a Hikikomori)
Anonymous communication doesn't count as "social interactions". Imageboards are where the hikikomori culture thrives. I doubt many would remain hikkis if they were deprived of internet access.
Anonymous communication doesn't count as "social interactions". Imageboards are where the hikikomori culture thrives. I doubt many would remain hikkis if they were deprived of internet access.
> This might be just an oriental way of living.
If that were true, why are there increasing instances of the same phenomenon in Western nations?
If that were true, why are there increasing instances of the same phenomenon in Western nations?
I have a theory about Western and Japanese nerds. It's not really worked through, so don't get too angry if something is wrong.
In the western, and especially American, stereotypical school environment of the '90s, the bookish nerds were social outcasts and bullied. There was a strong connection between nerdyness, not fitting in and intelligence. The nerds sat at home and learned programming on their own. Of course it turned out intelligence is very useful. The nerds ended up producing a lot of valuable things, such as much of the internet.
In Japan, there wasn't the same too-cool-for-school attitude, and the smart kids did alright socially. Good for them, but it meant they didn't spend their high school and college years programming alone. That eventually hurt the Japanese tech industry, who couldn't just hire self-taught programmers and had to wait for the school system to figure it out or teach their employees to program from scratch.
Back in school, there will always be social outcasts of course, but in Japan, the average "nerd" was no more intelligent than people in general, maybe the opposite. I think they were more artistic than their western counterpart. The Japanese nerd-sphere were making amazing amateur manga (dōjinshi) back when art on the western web was little more than scribbles in Ms Paint. Sadly for them, making manga porn doesn't pay like programming. With no way to support themselves and no social status, the Hikikomori hide from the outside world.
What makes all this interesting for us is that the west appears to follow in Japan's tracks. Today's high school students are much more diligent and better behaved than 20-30 years ago. Meanwhile nerd culture isn't as intellectual any more. Japan has a group of online right-wingers that love to harass opponents. They are called netto-uyoku and are just like the alt-right, except they appeared a decade earlier, and their racism is directed at Koreans and Chinese.
I have no doubt we will see a wave of Hikikomori in the west. They may be different. Maybe they will live alone and survive on delivery food instead of living with their parents.
In the western, and especially American, stereotypical school environment of the '90s, the bookish nerds were social outcasts and bullied. There was a strong connection between nerdyness, not fitting in and intelligence. The nerds sat at home and learned programming on their own. Of course it turned out intelligence is very useful. The nerds ended up producing a lot of valuable things, such as much of the internet.
In Japan, there wasn't the same too-cool-for-school attitude, and the smart kids did alright socially. Good for them, but it meant they didn't spend their high school and college years programming alone. That eventually hurt the Japanese tech industry, who couldn't just hire self-taught programmers and had to wait for the school system to figure it out or teach their employees to program from scratch.
Back in school, there will always be social outcasts of course, but in Japan, the average "nerd" was no more intelligent than people in general, maybe the opposite. I think they were more artistic than their western counterpart. The Japanese nerd-sphere were making amazing amateur manga (dōjinshi) back when art on the western web was little more than scribbles in Ms Paint. Sadly for them, making manga porn doesn't pay like programming. With no way to support themselves and no social status, the Hikikomori hide from the outside world.
What makes all this interesting for us is that the west appears to follow in Japan's tracks. Today's high school students are much more diligent and better behaved than 20-30 years ago. Meanwhile nerd culture isn't as intellectual any more. Japan has a group of online right-wingers that love to harass opponents. They are called netto-uyoku and are just like the alt-right, except they appeared a decade earlier, and their racism is directed at Koreans and Chinese.
I have no doubt we will see a wave of Hikikomori in the west. They may be different. Maybe they will live alone and survive on delivery food instead of living with their parents.
No parents, no hikikomori. America's is more likely to have rampant homelessness, particularly as boomer parents start to hit peak insolvency.
At least in Japan, that hasn't happened. The homeless and semi-homeless are an entirely separate group of mostly 50+ (former) construction workers and day laborers. The hikikomori-likes who cannot live with their parents stay in manga cafes that offer cheap overnight rates for a comfy chair and a PC in a booth. They need some kind of job to pay for it, but not much.
There won't be jobs for america's drop outs. There aren't jobs for america's graduates, right now.
I'm guessing this will be very slightly motivating for the few that can get their shit together and get haircuts and real jobs. But for most, it's going to be even more disastrous than a lifetime in one's parent's basement.
I'm guessing this will be very slightly motivating for the few that can get their shit together and get haircuts and real jobs. But for most, it's going to be even more disastrous than a lifetime in one's parent's basement.
> racism is directed at Koreans and Chinese.
I wanted to nitpick about it not being possible for Japanese people to be racism against Koreans/Chinese (unless they expicitly claim that K/C people are of different and inferior race), but I've learned that the term is so blurred now that even Wikipedia defines it as "discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Today, the use of the term 'racism' does not easily fall under a single definition.".
Contrarily, in my home country (Poland) racism still means discrimination based on concept of races and some of them being inferior/superior, and not nationality/ethnicity. Interesting how this term got overloaded in the USA.
I wanted to nitpick about it not being possible for Japanese people to be racism against Koreans/Chinese (unless they expicitly claim that K/C people are of different and inferior race), but I've learned that the term is so blurred now that even Wikipedia defines it as "discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Today, the use of the term 'racism' does not easily fall under a single definition.".
Contrarily, in my home country (Poland) racism still means discrimination based on concept of races and some of them being inferior/superior, and not nationality/ethnicity. Interesting how this term got overloaded in the USA.
Japanese prejudice against Koreans and Chinese has historically been couched in racial terms. The Japanese have tended (particular in the Showa period, but to a lesser extent up to the present) consider themselves a separate race from the peoples of mainland Asia.
I don't really agree with your assessment, though I really only know about Japanese culture from the last 10 years (when I moved here).
There are really 2 main differences between American and Japanese culture with respect to otaku/nerd culture and being bullied. First, Japan high schools are very highly streamed. You pretty much know what you are going to do in life when you apply for entrance to high school. High academic achievers will go to a high level high school, go on to university and then go into white collar jobs. Low academic achievers will go to a low level school and from there either go to a trade school or go out straight to work.
So, the "nerd" culture doesn't really exist in high school. You are either studying your ass off in a school that is overloading you with academic work, or you are enjoying sports or some other club activities and barely ever study. Bullying obviously exists, but it's not around academic boundaries. The "smart" kids aren't bullied for being smart. In a low level school, there are thugs that are turning you upside down for your lunch money. In a high level school, there are the rich kids who look down on you. But being smart is pretty much 100% a good thing in a high level school. If you are smart in a low level school, then you are an underachiever and probably cool as hell, so everyone loves you.
Otaku culture is something very different in Japan. It's more that you like something that is not cool. So maybe you like comic books too much. Or you are obsessed with games. Or maybe you collect stuffed animals. Or whatever. But basically it's something that your are passionate about but absolutely embarrassed to tell anyone. Nobody admits to being otaku in real life. It's practically a swear word.
Hikikomori is completely different than otaku. I have an internet friend who is hikikomori. He just has intense social phobias. It's a mental illness. In Japan, although it is getting better these days, mental illness was not treated. Like, seriously, no treatment. You are looked after by your parents. So if you have schizophrenia, your parents look after you. If you have clinical depression, your parents look after you. This is also true of other kinds of handicaps like Downs syndrome. Parents look after their children if they are not able to look after themselves.
A lot of hikikomori could probably lead productive lives if they got some treatment for their mental illness and slowly awareness is improving. But this is hampered by Japanese culture of not understanding mental illness. It's doubly hampered by the feeling of duty that parents have towards their children (which is admirable, but unfortunate in this circumstance). People feel that it is their responsibility to deal with the problem and they won't go to get help.
There are people in the west with the same mental illnesses that hikikomori deal with in Japan. The difference (as another poster mentioned) is that western parents will not look after their children in the same manner. There is more of an attitude that somebody else should do something to help them. It's one of the things I hate most about Western culture, but in this instance, it's probably the exactly right thing to do ;-)
There are really 2 main differences between American and Japanese culture with respect to otaku/nerd culture and being bullied. First, Japan high schools are very highly streamed. You pretty much know what you are going to do in life when you apply for entrance to high school. High academic achievers will go to a high level high school, go on to university and then go into white collar jobs. Low academic achievers will go to a low level school and from there either go to a trade school or go out straight to work.
So, the "nerd" culture doesn't really exist in high school. You are either studying your ass off in a school that is overloading you with academic work, or you are enjoying sports or some other club activities and barely ever study. Bullying obviously exists, but it's not around academic boundaries. The "smart" kids aren't bullied for being smart. In a low level school, there are thugs that are turning you upside down for your lunch money. In a high level school, there are the rich kids who look down on you. But being smart is pretty much 100% a good thing in a high level school. If you are smart in a low level school, then you are an underachiever and probably cool as hell, so everyone loves you.
Otaku culture is something very different in Japan. It's more that you like something that is not cool. So maybe you like comic books too much. Or you are obsessed with games. Or maybe you collect stuffed animals. Or whatever. But basically it's something that your are passionate about but absolutely embarrassed to tell anyone. Nobody admits to being otaku in real life. It's practically a swear word.
Hikikomori is completely different than otaku. I have an internet friend who is hikikomori. He just has intense social phobias. It's a mental illness. In Japan, although it is getting better these days, mental illness was not treated. Like, seriously, no treatment. You are looked after by your parents. So if you have schizophrenia, your parents look after you. If you have clinical depression, your parents look after you. This is also true of other kinds of handicaps like Downs syndrome. Parents look after their children if they are not able to look after themselves.
A lot of hikikomori could probably lead productive lives if they got some treatment for their mental illness and slowly awareness is improving. But this is hampered by Japanese culture of not understanding mental illness. It's doubly hampered by the feeling of duty that parents have towards their children (which is admirable, but unfortunate in this circumstance). People feel that it is their responsibility to deal with the problem and they won't go to get help.
There are people in the west with the same mental illnesses that hikikomori deal with in Japan. The difference (as another poster mentioned) is that western parents will not look after their children in the same manner. There is more of an attitude that somebody else should do something to help them. It's one of the things I hate most about Western culture, but in this instance, it's probably the exactly right thing to do ;-)
Welcome to the NHK was a great watch. Someone would call it terribly depressing but surely not to the degree of Elfen Lied or Neon Genesis Evangelion.
The author mentions:
> An identikit of an average Hikikomori: likely a school dropout, may or may not have specific skills, most likely unemployed unless he has an online gig of sort, lives in his room in his parents' house, never steps out of the house, spends the day daydreaming, reading, roaming the internet, flipping TV channels, floating in his room.
It's comfortable being at home, especially your family home. I could spend all day reading online, offline, watching adultswim's marathon streams or just taking naps. When I walk outside the safety of my home I meet people that are different from me.
These people don't speak by reciting lines from early Simpsons episodes. These people don't think my jokes are funny. These people don't talk about the things I like to talk about.
The Internet solves this. Reddit gives me subs. IRC gives me channels. Twitter gives me the ability to follow only those that interest me. I'm able to be someone else online, the best extension of me or the me that I want seen.
Now if my parents continue to pay and let me stay at home, I'll do just that. Eventually, that routine will be too difficult to break.
In my darkest moments, I thought exactly that. It was simply easier and more comfortable being at home and socializing online. When I read articles like these I relate and think back to those dire moments when my room had a leaning tower of pizza boxes and I hadn't showered in over a month.