I spent two years launching tiny projects(tinyprojects.dev)
tinyprojects.dev
I spent two years launching tiny projects
https://tinyprojects.dev/posts/i_spent_two_years_launching_tiny_projects
198 comments
I started my professional life ~25y ago with a side project that by 2022 led to roughly 50 more side projects — The vast majority failed, some turned into 200 employee businesses, some others got acquired. In essence, I make a living out of side projects. Side projects are life.
Your career is what I aspired to when I started in this industry over a decade ago. But what ended up happening was that I (a) worked full-time while dabbling on nights and weekends, (b) spent several years trying to decide which project I wanted to really pursue in earnest, and then (c) after picking the project, obsessing over it so much that I never felt it was ready to release. So it's...not going well so far lol.
Can you recall any specific thing you did that brought you success?
Can you recall any specific thing you did that brought you success?
I think first and foremost is bringing yourself into a position that gets you enough runway (time and money) to be able to take things seriously — even if that sounds like the opposite of a side project. For me it was skipping university and having kids in favour of starting a web agency in the dotcom days. Also, I don't believe in working on something you love — you just need to hate it a little less than the other ideas and be positive that someone will find it useful. Like I mentioned below, luck and timing play an important role and these days I'd say you will also need one unfair advantage (contacts, cash, distribution, etc) to increase your chances.
I just wanted to say that I love your phrasing of working on something that "you hate a little less".
In general I believe the idea of "work on what you love" to be awful advice; I have found that I get deep satisfaction out of working on something that someone is willing to pay for, even if that means that sometimes it is a headache and I hate doing some of the things that need to be done. Once you accept that those things will continue to exist and continue to need to be done, and it's not going to be bliss, those things seem to matter less.
In general I believe the idea of "work on what you love" to be awful advice; I have found that I get deep satisfaction out of working on something that someone is willing to pay for, even if that means that sometimes it is a headache and I hate doing some of the things that need to be done. Once you accept that those things will continue to exist and continue to need to be done, and it's not going to be bliss, those things seem to matter less.
I prefer to try to learn to love something that you believe can bring you success. It is very difficult to do something day in and day out that you don't love some part of. You just have to figure out your angle. I don't love my current business, but I love business in general and I love building things that people like to use.
The "love requirement" makes it hard to continue once you wake up one day and find you no longer love it. The "hate it a little less" is much more useful is you dont want to give up on stuff because you have a bad day/week/month with it.
Was there a general goal for each one or any sort of decision tree you used to decide on what to build next... for example, did you only work on things that could potentially be big, or huge, etc? Did you analyze the market size of each idea before starting, etc?
I've outlined a few things in an answer below but another aspect I use more and more these days is a negative inbound filter for ideas. Ranging from macro problems like 'Will it require an app' down to even 'do I need user accounts'. Basically, try to put together a few things that you need or want to absolutely avoid due to certain constraints or knowledge and go from there.
This is my story as well, more or less. Want to compare notes? Perhaps figuring out what we have in common would help us understand what we're doing wrong.
As someone who is squarely outside the industry of "side project entrepreneurism," it sounds like the problem is obsessing over minor details about the project and never launching it.
The other person literally said they tried like 50 things and you two haven't launched any yet.
The other person literally said they tried like 50 things and you two haven't launched any yet.
I put that in there to make it more or less obvious that perfectionism was one of the reasons I haven't accomplished much yet. The point was to probe deeper and see if there's some other insight, because everyone already knows that perfectionism kills productivity.
At the same time, if you're doing it for a hobby, taking your time until you're happy can be meditative. That's why I'm taking my side project slowly - because I enjoy coding and am using my side project as a form of relaxation.
The main issue is world randomness.
You have no idea and irregardless of evidence that you have gathered if something will work or not. Based on this, it would be very bad to work on something for a year without knowing or getting frequent feedback (cash sent to your bank account by customers).
So the only way is to treat this like poker. You place several bets over a period of time (max 1 month). This way you launch 12 projects in a year and have a better success chance of hitting something that actually works. You have to place bets until the card is right, then you can go all-in.
You have no idea and irregardless of evidence that you have gathered if something will work or not. Based on this, it would be very bad to work on something for a year without knowing or getting frequent feedback (cash sent to your bank account by customers).
So the only way is to treat this like poker. You place several bets over a period of time (max 1 month). This way you launch 12 projects in a year and have a better success chance of hitting something that actually works. You have to place bets until the card is right, then you can go all-in.
I launched my one and only three years ago and it still doesn't pay its own bills. I work on it when I can, but at this point I feel rather resigned to it never being something I can really be proud of.
By actually launching, you’ve achieved what most engineers only think about. I’m not sure if it would mean anything to you, but I look up to what you’ve achieved so far and hope I can ship something in the next 3 years.
Time is easy. Find a work with 20 hours/week schedule and a lifestyle to live for earned money. Should be possible for software developer. Now you have 20 hours a week without sacrificing free time (or more with sacrifices if you feel it worth it).
Choosing good idea worthy of implementation and finding enough inspiration to finish it is another matter.
Choosing good idea worthy of implementation and finding enough inspiration to finish it is another matter.
This describes the point I mentioned above
I think first and foremost is bringing yourself into a position that gets you enough runway
Unfortunately, from what I've experienced, this doesn't align with the typical US lifestyle minimum?
Unfortunately, from what I've experienced, this doesn't align with the typical US lifestyle minimum?
I'm probably the last person you'd want to ask about this but it sounds like you failed to take risk, possibly due to mild (or not so mild?) perfectionism.
> some turned into 200 employee businesses
Incredible comment overall but this line was particularly Woah!
What advice would have for solo founders of a side project (that later becomes a full time day job) in terms of evolving to a large team?
First hire(s), things to look out for, etc.
I’d find this insight incredible! Hope I’m not asking too much. But such an incredible story you have.
Incredible comment overall but this line was particularly Woah!
What advice would have for solo founders of a side project (that later becomes a full time day job) in terms of evolving to a large team?
First hire(s), things to look out for, etc.
I’d find this insight incredible! Hope I’m not asking too much. But such an incredible story you have.
To be honest, I would never do something that requires a single employee ever again. I sold my first company because soon enough, all you get to do is manage politics and not the thing you signed up for — Sounds infantile but at some point you have to stay true to yourself no matter the benefits. If you're more of a team-player, there are obviously better options today (remote, etc.) — The only thing I would recommend is not getting too romantic with a co-founder, having clear responsibilities from day one and don't try to make friends along the way — in the end it's all about building success.
Doesn't sound infantile at all. I strongly resonate with everything you're saying.
A little over a year ago I submitted this Ask HN, which helps shed light on my situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27039701
It is now a year later and I'm still wondering the same thing as I was back then (as in, I haven't changed up my work setup at all / haven't hired people). I do rely on contractors here and there, but it's rare.
I quite enjoy the peace and quiet that comes with no employees. These days I just do a bit of focused work each day, prioritise spending time with my family, and enjoy sticking to my daily training regiment (the latter has been a key aspect of my life ever since I started my entrepreneurial journey).
Every time I consider hiring people for the sake of more growth, I find myself asking if it'll be worth it, and whether I'll regret it.
I doubt I'd be able to enjoy the work/life balance I currently have if I were responsible for managing people at scale.
Perhaps I'm being narrow-minded here, but it's good to receive affirmation from someone whose done it all before.
Cheers mate.
A little over a year ago I submitted this Ask HN, which helps shed light on my situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27039701
It is now a year later and I'm still wondering the same thing as I was back then (as in, I haven't changed up my work setup at all / haven't hired people). I do rely on contractors here and there, but it's rare.
I quite enjoy the peace and quiet that comes with no employees. These days I just do a bit of focused work each day, prioritise spending time with my family, and enjoy sticking to my daily training regiment (the latter has been a key aspect of my life ever since I started my entrepreneurial journey).
Every time I consider hiring people for the sake of more growth, I find myself asking if it'll be worth it, and whether I'll regret it.
I doubt I'd be able to enjoy the work/life balance I currently have if I were responsible for managing people at scale.
Perhaps I'm being narrow-minded here, but it's good to receive affirmation from someone whose done it all before.
Cheers mate.
Sounds good to me — Feeding one or a thousand employees doesn't make a lot of difference because you can lose only so many hours of sleep over it each night.
FWIW I know a handful of people of all ranges of success in the tech startup world, managing tens to hundreds or thousands.
Some of them are very driven by the stress of management, and seek it out. Their mentality is that a work situation isn't worthwhile if it isn't pushing you to your limit.
But they're the minority. I feel like you either know that you're this kind of person or you're not.
The rest feel burdened by their situation, and would happily trade for yours 300 days out of the year. They not-irregularly make comments, in private to friends, along the lines of "sometimes I wonder if I'm living life wrong? maybe I should be in the park with my kids instead of on the nth investor call or one-on-one with a direct report".
Like most questions, I think you can answer this with a mixture of experiments and introspection. You say you've manage contractors, for example.
Do you ever feel like you wish you had more responsibility for their lives? The urge to give mentorship is real, do you wish you could do that in a professional setting?
You can probably find ways to scratch those itches that are outside your company, too, for what it's worth.
You're in a good position where you get to "choose your own adventure", so you should experiment with it! Document your feelings, find somebody to talk it through with, iterate towards a happier spot. There's always ways to test your curiosities without sacrificing everything, if you get clever with it. :)
Some of them are very driven by the stress of management, and seek it out. Their mentality is that a work situation isn't worthwhile if it isn't pushing you to your limit.
But they're the minority. I feel like you either know that you're this kind of person or you're not.
The rest feel burdened by their situation, and would happily trade for yours 300 days out of the year. They not-irregularly make comments, in private to friends, along the lines of "sometimes I wonder if I'm living life wrong? maybe I should be in the park with my kids instead of on the nth investor call or one-on-one with a direct report".
Like most questions, I think you can answer this with a mixture of experiments and introspection. You say you've manage contractors, for example.
Do you ever feel like you wish you had more responsibility for their lives? The urge to give mentorship is real, do you wish you could do that in a professional setting?
You can probably find ways to scratch those itches that are outside your company, too, for what it's worth.
You're in a good position where you get to "choose your own adventure", so you should experiment with it! Document your feelings, find somebody to talk it through with, iterate towards a happier spot. There's always ways to test your curiosities without sacrificing everything, if you get clever with it. :)
Shame your Ask HN did not get traction. Might be worth posting it again. It is a bit of a lottery on here.
Thank you for posting this and previous year's Ask HN. Knowing that it's possible to run some successful && semi-passive && one-person && work/life-balancing SaaS businesses for such a long time is inspiring.
Likewise.
I've been through a number of startups and there are jobs that I really really dislike down to my core.
My 2nd startup I did the CEO role and i hated every day of it -- I really respect those who can spend day after day in investor meetings, sales calls, marketing catch-ups; that person isn't me.
My 3rd startup I decided to stick to technology - with a heavy dose of management - and partner with someone who could do the above.
Startups are already barely tolerable as it is, you can at least help yourself a little by being able to focus on the areas that bring a little joy into your life.
I've been through a number of startups and there are jobs that I really really dislike down to my core.
My 2nd startup I did the CEO role and i hated every day of it -- I really respect those who can spend day after day in investor meetings, sales calls, marketing catch-ups; that person isn't me.
My 3rd startup I decided to stick to technology - with a heavy dose of management - and partner with someone who could do the above.
Startups are already barely tolerable as it is, you can at least help yourself a little by being able to focus on the areas that bring a little joy into your life.
This advice aligns beautifully with my experience. It's obvious you have walked the walk.
I deeply appreciate this perspective (and the similar perspective in this HN submission). Thanks for sharing -- it feels so permissive for me to hear these kinds of perspectives and just get to work on side stuff.
I feel like I often hang up on if something should be done or if it is something that will be "successful". So it's cool to hear stories where the goal isn't the financial success of X project -- the goal is the journey and it's a bonus if it's financially beneficial.
Thanks again, know that it helped me to read this comment!
I feel like I often hang up on if something should be done or if it is something that will be "successful". So it's cool to hear stories where the goal isn't the financial success of X project -- the goal is the journey and it's a bonus if it's financially beneficial.
Thanks again, know that it helped me to read this comment!
How do you decide whether a side project/idea is worth pursuing? You mentioned in another comment that you don’t “do the MVP stuff” and go full blown from the beginning. That seems like a big time sink without a rigorous way of validating whether users want what you’re building.
Yes it is a time sink and I can't claim having a specific methodology but if you look at all the conflicting theories, literature and endless blog posts that have been written about validation, you might as well just trust your gut.
My amateurish approach is to jot down every idea in a single line of a text file, then walk away. If the same idea or topic strikes me again, I give it a separate text file and write some copy that might go on the product page, together with links to related stuff, screenshots, etc. Then, after another few weeks and only if I still believe in the idea I come up with more details, perhaps do some light coding, brand ideas, register domains, etc. Then (You guessed it), I wait another few weeks or even months and if it passes my still-relevant check I start working on it on the side of my existing, well, side project. The challenge these days is when to pull the plug or go all-in since the market, interests and attention shifts so quickly that it's tough to adapt without losing temper. Doesn't get easier as you get I older.
My amateurish approach is to jot down every idea in a single line of a text file, then walk away. If the same idea or topic strikes me again, I give it a separate text file and write some copy that might go on the product page, together with links to related stuff, screenshots, etc. Then, after another few weeks and only if I still believe in the idea I come up with more details, perhaps do some light coding, brand ideas, register domains, etc. Then (You guessed it), I wait another few weeks or even months and if it passes my still-relevant check I start working on it on the side of my existing, well, side project. The challenge these days is when to pull the plug or go all-in since the market, interests and attention shifts so quickly that it's tough to adapt without losing temper. Doesn't get easier as you get I older.
Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
If you have some time, would you mind replying to my "Ask HN"? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31217221
Thanks!
Thanks!
Perhaps a more important question is when do you know to pull the plug? At what point do you stop investing resources into the project?
There's no exact rule but I'd say 12 to 16 months is a good time to expect some sort of positive trend. I don't do any of that MVP stuff and go full-blown right away because user expecations are high and I'm too old to get pleasure from starting something out of a notion-hosted website. Cash-wise I try to keep it under 20k - keeping in mind that I don't do physical projects and all by myself (no freelancers, contractors, etc).
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Could you share the projects here? Took a look at thomas.me but couldn't quite find the projects. Thanks!
What are some of your favorite stories from that life, if you don't mind me asking?
I built the first Android Twitter client, sold that to Idealab* and given our huge market share (~40% IIRC ) pitched them the idea to build our own Twitter clone in order to move those users over. Twitter took notice and locked all our apps which eventually kicked off the anti-third-party tendency that we see today. Good times.
* https://bgr.com/general/tweetup-acquires-twidroid-renaming-a...
* https://bgr.com/general/tweetup-acquires-twidroid-renaming-a...
Another time I turned my private news aggregator into a public service (Popurls) which kicked off thousands of clones and was at one time the number one traffic referrer to Digg and Reddit. A year later Guy Kawasaki cloned it, and I find myself invited to a Ramen lunch with Kevin Kelly who blogged about it as being his favorite website. 15 years later, I got funding from Mark Cuban for building a successor. All from a private solo side project that started as a 20-line Perl script.
I'm not the person you're responding too but I thought I'd mention some of mine. I wrote a blog post called "How to Lose Money With 25 Years of Failed Businesses" where I discuss some of the little side hustles I've managed to kill over the years.
https://joeldare.com/how-to-lose-money-with-25-years-of-fail...
I build a lot of tiny projects and Ben (original blog post) is inspiring me to get them better organized.
https://joeldare.com/how-to-lose-money-with-25-years-of-fail...
I build a lot of tiny projects and Ben (original blog post) is inspiring me to get them better organized.
Besides maximising luck, the only real strategy I follow is buy low, sell high in a sense of keeping the burn low and counting on a win every 3-4 years that will create enough cash to finance the next period of failures — because what got you here won't get you there ...
how do you stay motivated? what's your stack? do you talk it out with someone?
2h sports and a 1h walk every day but that's it. I get motivated from failures because they're the default I expect from having taking actions. Also helps to lower your expectations from life and stay away from comparing your track record with those of others. You know, those 18y olds who flipped their newsletter for 20 millions.
> but that's it
That's waaay more than your avg office worker though.
That's waaay more than your avg office worker though.
That was actually a pleasant read. I especially like the conclusion to which I can relate.
> If you're stuck for ideas, I recommend just building something; anything; even if it's terrible, and I guarantee a better idea will pop into your brain shortly after.
I have been working on a long project for a few years now and it will not be finished before another few years and I envy the speed at which the author gets feedback after he launches his products.
> If you're stuck for ideas, I recommend just building something; anything; even if it's terrible, and I guarantee a better idea will pop into your brain shortly after.
I have been working on a long project for a few years now and it will not be finished before another few years and I envy the speed at which the author gets feedback after he launches his products.
Dan Harmon (Community, Rick and Morty, etc) has some advice on this:
> Switch from team “I will one day write something good” to team “I have no choice but to write a piece of shit” and then take off your “bad writer” hat and replace it with a “petty critic” hat and go to town on that poor hack’s draft and that’s your second draft.
https://www.vulture.com/2016/11/read-dan-harmons-excellent-a...
> Switch from team “I will one day write something good” to team “I have no choice but to write a piece of shit” and then take off your “bad writer” hat and replace it with a “petty critic” hat and go to town on that poor hack’s draft and that’s your second draft.
https://www.vulture.com/2016/11/read-dan-harmons-excellent-a...
That conclusion is really applicable to just about everything. Want to start woodworking? Start building something. Want to become a runner? Start running. Want to be a musician? Start making some songs.
A lot of the initial tries will be terrible but it only gets better from there.
A lot of the initial tries will be terrible but it only gets better from there.
When I lived in an apartment building, a guy in the next building decided he wanted to learn to play the saxophone and practiced on his balcony everyday. I hate the advice "just start playing" :)
Luckily he wasn't interested in explosives. Ha
I completely agree with this, I almost have too many ideas and find combining them and building “something” usually results in filtering out the bad ones and brining the better ones to the forefront. Sometimes you just find that something “new” and better comes out of the process of trying to build “anything”.
I also do the same as the author, but I only build websites with a clear monetization model. Every project I've done after my first successful one as been in an adjacent audience.
Doing roughly $700k revenue yearly right now over the 2 main projects. Hopefully with a 3rd coming this summer.
https://siliconvict.com/projects
Doing roughly $700k revenue yearly right now over the 2 main projects. Hopefully with a 3rd coming this summer.
https://siliconvict.com/projects
As someone who wants to be a software developer one day, I took notes from the 'How to hire actually good engineers' post. Honestly, I lack code and I'm gonna fix that.
I really like this basic list of all your projects and links to them. You've got quite the repertoire. It's inspired me to do something similar, thanks for sharing.
Wow, I love the honesty within that page. Keep up the good work!
700k solo?
As someone who perpetually overscopes side projects and ends up biting off more than I can reasonably chew given my free time, I really love this idea. What happens with me is I start a new project, then add a new feature here and there (because coding is fun) and end up never reaching anything close to "done" then getting into analysis paralysis of what to do next because there is so much. Ultimately it gets abandoned and forgotten and put on the graveyard of all the other side projects - not that this is horrible, I do them for fun and not profit, but it would be nice to launch a few.
If OP is actually the author, a question - what was your approach in keeping the projects tightly scoped and not introducing feature creep? Deadlines or time-boxing? Pre-emptive deciding on what you will and won't do? Lowering your standards for "good enough"? Just plain old discipline? Something else?
If OP is actually the author, a question - what was your approach in keeping the projects tightly scoped and not introducing feature creep? Deadlines or time-boxing? Pre-emptive deciding on what you will and won't do? Lowering your standards for "good enough"? Just plain old discipline? Something else?
Building for fun vs building for profit are very different and it's important to set your intention for a project, even though the line often gets blurred.
When you are building for fun, it is for yourself. When you are building for profit, it is for other people. When you are building for fun, you get to decide what to work on and when to stop - usually when it is no longer fun. When you are building for profit, other people decide what you work on and when you are done - usually when no new features are requested, you have no competition, and you have absolutely saturated your market. This rarely ever happens so you always have something propelling you.
The biggest failure most engineers encounter is they build things nobody asked for. They build products without customers lined up, for markets that do not currently exist, with only feedback from themselves. This is because they built the product for fun thinking they were building it for profit.
The line between the two is very easy to blur - especially when reading OP's blog where he genuinely sounds like he had fun building his projects, but I guarantee there was also a lot of very unfun background work done in the name of profit.
Edit: Don't just take my guarantee for it, read about his challenges for One Item Store https://tinyprojects.dev/projects/one_item_store
When you are building for fun, it is for yourself. When you are building for profit, it is for other people. When you are building for fun, you get to decide what to work on and when to stop - usually when it is no longer fun. When you are building for profit, other people decide what you work on and when you are done - usually when no new features are requested, you have no competition, and you have absolutely saturated your market. This rarely ever happens so you always have something propelling you.
The biggest failure most engineers encounter is they build things nobody asked for. They build products without customers lined up, for markets that do not currently exist, with only feedback from themselves. This is because they built the product for fun thinking they were building it for profit.
The line between the two is very easy to blur - especially when reading OP's blog where he genuinely sounds like he had fun building his projects, but I guarantee there was also a lot of very unfun background work done in the name of profit.
Edit: Don't just take my guarantee for it, read about his challenges for One Item Store https://tinyprojects.dev/projects/one_item_store
> Ultimately it gets abandoned and forgotten and put on the graveyard of all the other side projects
Could be worse. I used to have this problem all the time, and at some point managed to fix it. Now I've spent 3 years on a side project (which I originally thought should take a couple of months, and considering its lack of complexity really only should have taken at most a year), and even though I'm fully aware its an "unworkable" idea, I can't stop until its done.
I've read tiny projects in the past though and really like it, I really want to try a similar thing at some point...just as soon as this current project is done ;)
Could be worse. I used to have this problem all the time, and at some point managed to fix it. Now I've spent 3 years on a side project (which I originally thought should take a couple of months, and considering its lack of complexity really only should have taken at most a year), and even though I'm fully aware its an "unworkable" idea, I can't stop until its done.
I've read tiny projects in the past though and really like it, I really want to try a similar thing at some point...just as soon as this current project is done ;)
This idea comes up in painting. The rule of thumb is that it's done when there's nothing left to add; when adding the next thing does not provide much more value value than it costs in terms complexity.
With coding, it seems like it's much more difficult question to answer.
With coding, it seems like it's much more difficult question to answer.
With coding, I often find Antoine de Saint-Exupéry helping me to limit myself: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
I feel like this quote is why I can't have a removable battery, a headphone jack and an sd card in a new phone.
Perhaps. I always assumed it had more to do with offering better waterproofing, but maybe that's naive.
Or maybe more to do with users buying more of a particular brand of Bluetooth headphones and not having an arbitrary and universal input (you can do a lot of crazy stuff with an audio jack see square).
I suppose that might be one reading, though IMO the battery, jack, and card slot have just been replaced by more bells and whistles like more/fancier cameras, biometric sensors, NFC, and other gobbledygook that was more important to someone than being able to plug into the cassette adapter in my car. Not exactly what I think of when I hear "nothing left to take away."
Unlike a painting, software can be continually improved and enhanced after it's released.
One thing I would have loved to read about is more about how they did market validation for these ideas. For a micro-bet strategy knowing which one (outside of really interesting projects that would trend on HN), it feels like market validation chops would be crucial.
The author seems to be batting an insanely high average for just building things and having them actually get some traction, and be exit-able.
> When I started this mission, I had a big list of project ideas that I'd built up in my phone. Maybe you have one of those lists too.
> Two years later, I've realised a lot of these initial ideas were pretty terrible.
> It's a paradox, but I've found that my best ideas now come from building other ideas.
Funnily enough, I went the other way and started sharing my large list of ideas with others (I send 3 non-terrible ones to subscribers every week[0]). Of course, running a mailing list and sharing the ideas was one of the ideas...
At this point market validation (and practice validating ideas) is starting to seem like the most important thing. Knowing you should take the month to build before you do, but reading the post it feels like maybe bounding initial development time sometimes can work in lieu of validating the market.
[EDIT] - please see previous discussion about the mailing list as well![1] -- it's released every sunday night.
[EDIT2] - is anyone having trouble sending email to the author? I'm using protonmail and wanted to get in touch but I can't -- email looks to be no bueno for proton mail. I guess I'll either try thunderbird or twitter.
[EDIT3] - Looks like proton mail does not like emoji email addresses currently... Thunderbird happily sent.
[EDIT4] - Nope, nvm I'm getting a mail lookup error (hn strips the emoji)...
> Delivery to [email protected] failed with error: MX lookup error
[0]: https://unvalidated-ideas.vadosware.io
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31388399
The author seems to be batting an insanely high average for just building things and having them actually get some traction, and be exit-able.
> When I started this mission, I had a big list of project ideas that I'd built up in my phone. Maybe you have one of those lists too.
> Two years later, I've realised a lot of these initial ideas were pretty terrible.
> It's a paradox, but I've found that my best ideas now come from building other ideas.
Funnily enough, I went the other way and started sharing my large list of ideas with others (I send 3 non-terrible ones to subscribers every week[0]). Of course, running a mailing list and sharing the ideas was one of the ideas...
At this point market validation (and practice validating ideas) is starting to seem like the most important thing. Knowing you should take the month to build before you do, but reading the post it feels like maybe bounding initial development time sometimes can work in lieu of validating the market.
[EDIT] - please see previous discussion about the mailing list as well![1] -- it's released every sunday night.
[EDIT2] - is anyone having trouble sending email to the author? I'm using protonmail and wanted to get in touch but I can't -- email looks to be no bueno for proton mail. I guess I'll either try thunderbird or twitter.
[EDIT3] - Looks like proton mail does not like emoji email addresses currently... Thunderbird happily sent.
[EDIT4] - Nope, nvm I'm getting a mail lookup error (hn strips the emoji)...
> Delivery to [email protected] failed with error: MX lookup error
[0]: https://unvalidated-ideas.vadosware.io
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31388399
>At this point market validation (and practice validating ideas) is starting to seem like the most important thing.
Market validation - especially for online products and services - is indeed incredibly important, but not many people like to write about it because it is actually very drab and a tiny bit audacious.
His market validation - you are seeing it. It is a submission to Hacker News.
Ok ok, that is a given, but the author alludes to other various ways he gets feedback and validation for his products. He also talks about how well his products were received on Product Hunt and you can also follow him on Twitter.
My final advice for seeing how online services validate their ideas - run the product's domain through a backlink checker. It lets you see what other websites link to their product and what avenues they pursued for outreach. Each of those submissions exposes the product to potential customers and gives valuable feedback to the creator.
Market validation - especially for online products and services - is indeed incredibly important, but not many people like to write about it because it is actually very drab and a tiny bit audacious.
His market validation - you are seeing it. It is a submission to Hacker News.
Ok ok, that is a given, but the author alludes to other various ways he gets feedback and validation for his products. He also talks about how well his products were received on Product Hunt and you can also follow him on Twitter.
My final advice for seeing how online services validate their ideas - run the product's domain through a backlink checker. It lets you see what other websites link to their product and what avenues they pursued for outreach. Each of those submissions exposes the product to potential customers and gives valuable feedback to the creator.
> His market validation - you are seeing it. It is a submission to Hacker News.
Yup you're totally right. All these ideas really seemed like things that would trend on HN (but that's easy to say in retrospect, getting to the front page isn't quite so easy!).
> My final advice for seeing how online services validate their ideas - run the product's domain through a backlink checker. It lets you see what other websites link to their product and what avenues they pursued for outreach. Each of those submissions exposes the product to potential customers and gives valuable feedback to the creator.
This is one thing I know I'm terrible at. I barely use any SEO tools properly, I should probably just hurry up and pay for ahrefs or whatever already.
I don't think the concept of checking backlinks even clicked properly in my head until I read your explanation, thank you very much.
Yup you're totally right. All these ideas really seemed like things that would trend on HN (but that's easy to say in retrospect, getting to the front page isn't quite so easy!).
> My final advice for seeing how online services validate their ideas - run the product's domain through a backlink checker. It lets you see what other websites link to their product and what avenues they pursued for outreach. Each of those submissions exposes the product to potential customers and gives valuable feedback to the creator.
This is one thing I know I'm terrible at. I barely use any SEO tools properly, I should probably just hurry up and pay for ahrefs or whatever already.
I don't think the concept of checking backlinks even clicked properly in my head until I read your explanation, thank you very much.
You can get a general idea with free backlink checkers, just won't be able to deep dive and do various filters.
Ignore all the spammy websites that usually regurgitate random links. Focus on the sites with high DR that don't have the "NoFollow" attribute. These are the hard-hitting websites that boost your domain for SEO purposes and can be good places to get feedback on your own product.
Ignore all the spammy websites that usually regurgitate random links. Focus on the sites with high DR that don't have the "NoFollow" attribute. These are the hard-hitting websites that boost your domain for SEO purposes and can be good places to get feedback on your own product.
The whole point, I would imagine, is to not do very much market validation, and to just build the tiny project.
If it does fit or is close to fitting, great! If it doesn't fit, oh well, not much is lost (after all, it is a tiny project).
If it does fit or is close to fitting, great! If it doesn't fit, oh well, not much is lost (after all, it is a tiny project).
Market validation might take more work than building a tiny project.
I was able to reach the author using Gmail, fwiw.
Thanks for noting this -- clearly I didn't try hard enough, will try to reach out.
Does anyone let the tax implications of launching (several) tiny projects prevent them from even starting?
I know LLCs allow for pass-through taxation and you don't have to file as a business, but I get frozen by the idea that generating a few hundred dollars in revenue from some silly side project means I have to spend hours/days of my time the next Spring figuring out how to properly pay taxes on it.
I know LLCs allow for pass-through taxation and you don't have to file as a business, but I get frozen by the idea that generating a few hundred dollars in revenue from some silly side project means I have to spend hours/days of my time the next Spring figuring out how to properly pay taxes on it.
A past manager once gave me great advice for situations like these when I was thinking about applying to grad school worrying about my then-job if I got in: "deal with this problem if you get in." The chances of you making a few hundred dollars in revenue by next Spring are statistically very low. And if you are persistent and talented and lucky enough to generate hundreds of dollars in revenue, you're certainly capable of paying taxes on your earnings.
The fact that you're asking this question means you're interested in launching things. If so, the cliched, true advice is: launch.
If you want practical advice: I run a one-person LLC in the US. Taxes on a few hundred dollars are nothing to worry about.
For inevitable naysayers: my manager's advice doesn't mean you shouldn't ever plan or prepare. Just that when your chances of success are very low, don't worry too much about the repercussions of success. I applied to grad school, and didn't get in. My career continued on just fine.
The fact that you're asking this question means you're interested in launching things. If so, the cliched, true advice is: launch.
If you want practical advice: I run a one-person LLC in the US. Taxes on a few hundred dollars are nothing to worry about.
For inevitable naysayers: my manager's advice doesn't mean you shouldn't ever plan or prepare. Just that when your chances of success are very low, don't worry too much about the repercussions of success. I applied to grad school, and didn't get in. My career continued on just fine.
(assuming you're in the US) if you've never had a business before, a couple hundred dollars of extra income is not material to your taxes and I wouldn't worry about it at all.
Once you get to the scale of a few thousand dollars a year, you can file what's called a Form 1040 Schedule C which allows you to declare your business income, claim expenses and other deductions, and include it in your taxable income. For that scale it's an extra 10 minutes with your tax software or even by hand, as long as you keep good records, and you're done.
The point at which an LLC or other more formal business structure makes sense is fuzzy and can have different ranges depending on the business, but typically you probably don't need or want to invoke the expense of a CPA until you're making more than six figures (or if you've taken outside investment, obv).
Once you get to the scale of a few thousand dollars a year, you can file what's called a Form 1040 Schedule C which allows you to declare your business income, claim expenses and other deductions, and include it in your taxable income. For that scale it's an extra 10 minutes with your tax software or even by hand, as long as you keep good records, and you're done.
The point at which an LLC or other more formal business structure makes sense is fuzzy and can have different ranges depending on the business, but typically you probably don't need or want to invoke the expense of a CPA until you're making more than six figures (or if you've taken outside investment, obv).
The part about "just don't worry about it" is not really great advice, IMO. I think the rest is good, particularly the part about using tax software and/or doing a Schedule C. Just do what it says - it's pretty simple for small businesses - the amount in taxes paid will be fairly minimal. If you use tax software, use the business version and answer the questions and it'll figure it all out for you basically (might even find some deductions if you had expenses, like domain names, hosting, etc.).
While the IRS likely won't audit you for a few hundred dollars (US), there are laws about what you have to do. You don't need to become a tax expert, but knowing the very basics so you don't run afoul of any laws and end up owing some $$ or penalties is probably worth taking a bit of time to do at the end of the year.
While the IRS likely won't audit you for a few hundred dollars (US), there are laws about what you have to do. You don't need to become a tax expert, but knowing the very basics so you don't run afoul of any laws and end up owing some $$ or penalties is probably worth taking a bit of time to do at the end of the year.
That's fair, and I'm definitely not advocating tax fraud or anything of the sort. There's a $400 minimum for filing Schedule SE but no minimum for Schedule C. That said, it's _exceedingly_ unlikely (basically impossible, afaict) that the IRS will audit for Schedule C if you've never filed one and you don't exceed the filing requirements for 1099-NEC or 1099-K. The maximum tax in that case is measured in dozens of dollars.
Thats a dumb reason to get frozen. Just in case you needed that perspective.
All your costs are tax deductions, whether you incorporate or not. The incorporation cost is negligible and you can ignore everything about a local/foreign llc registration simply because the consequences are improbable and inconsequential, just make the llc in the best states. If your employer is withholding any taxes, you’ll get so much more of it back because you have so many deductions now.
If you make any revenue its easy to count.
Your standing in society is based on gross revenue, your tax footprint is a fraction of net revenues. Its low key perfect. Net operating losses are the greatest of all time.
In addition, You get massively disproportionate security and anonymity by operating under entities you created. And you can prove product market fit in private and then inherit all the credit for it when it works.
All your costs are tax deductions, whether you incorporate or not. The incorporation cost is negligible and you can ignore everything about a local/foreign llc registration simply because the consequences are improbable and inconsequential, just make the llc in the best states. If your employer is withholding any taxes, you’ll get so much more of it back because you have so many deductions now.
If you make any revenue its easy to count.
Your standing in society is based on gross revenue, your tax footprint is a fraction of net revenues. Its low key perfect. Net operating losses are the greatest of all time.
In addition, You get massively disproportionate security and anonymity by operating under entities you created. And you can prove product market fit in private and then inherit all the credit for it when it works.
What are the best states for an LLC?
I believe Delaware is one of the best tax-wise, but unless you're bringing in lots of revenue, the additional hassle of getting a (representative? agent? can't remember the term for the entity that allows you to set up in a different state) might not be worth the additional complication (in comparison to just setting up everything in your home state). As far as I know, that's something you can change later, anyway...I think the most important thing is not getting hung up on the technicalities and just going ahead and getting started.
Wyoming, followed by Delaware, but save Delaware for the C-Corp when you need formalities from outside capital.
Both offer levels of privacy, Wyoming’s aren't codified they just dont care (and will help you), there all you have to do is just have anyone else sign the organization documents. Your registered agent or your lawyer can.
Both offer levels of privacy, Wyoming’s aren't codified they just dont care (and will help you), there all you have to do is just have anyone else sign the organization documents. Your registered agent or your lawyer can.
Maybe you should start a tiny project called TinyTaxes to handle simple tax filing for such unprofitable tiny projects!
And then TurboTax sues you into the ground.
You can launch multiple tiny projects under a single LLC, then just pay taxes on the total income from all of them for the year - you wouldn't have to do any separate filing
Everyone that is saying just "put the earnings on Schedule C or Schedule 1 of your tax form" is overlooking the part about your side project getting you sued and you having much more to worry about than just taxes.
The LLC (and other entity types) increases the deterrent of this ever affecting you.
The LLC specifically has some theoretical weaknesses, but the reason it is a deterrent is because it deters people from spending more money to find out about those weakenesses, and it also increases the odds that people won't be able to know where you are or serve you properly. The more expensive it is to find out anything, the less potential aggrieved people will bother, and "finding out" for them could mean "even harder to create liability and a payout", so they get bounced, or deterred, from trying.
The LLC (and other entity types) increases the deterrent of this ever affecting you.
The LLC specifically has some theoretical weaknesses, but the reason it is a deterrent is because it deters people from spending more money to find out about those weakenesses, and it also increases the odds that people won't be able to know where you are or serve you properly. The more expensive it is to find out anything, the less potential aggrieved people will bother, and "finding out" for them could mean "even harder to create liability and a payout", so they get bounced, or deterred, from trying.
I know HN leans heavily US, but if anyone is in the UK, you can now earn up to £1000 in side income without having to declare it or file a self assessment tax return.
Damn, that's nice. In Germany it's enough to have the intention to make money outside of regular employment. You won't pay taxes until a certain amount is reached, but you'll have to get a business license and fill out tax forms every year. And if you don't register yourself as "Kleingewerbe" (small business below 22k €), then you'll have to do sales tax too.
There are lawyers and some very shady businesses, that sweep through the web and report anyone who doesn't comply to any kind of law. They actually make money with this. When i had a small business, i've got a cease-and-desist letter from a lawyer of a "competitor" because a single link in my imprint page wasn't clickable. I guess that's why so many people are afraid of starting a business...
There are lawyers and some very shady businesses, that sweep through the web and report anyone who doesn't comply to any kind of law. They actually make money with this. When i had a small business, i've got a cease-and-desist letter from a lawyer of a "competitor" because a single link in my imprint page wasn't clickable. I guess that's why so many people are afraid of starting a business...
'Now'?
But yes, I was thinking of that ('entrepreneur's relief' I believe) too - it solves this problem nicely: don't worry about it until you know you're making money.
(And also other problems like 'hang on I sold some old crap on eBay.. was that income')
But yes, I was thinking of that ('entrepreneur's relief' I believe) too - it solves this problem nicely: don't worry about it until you know you're making money.
(And also other problems like 'hang on I sold some old crap on eBay.. was that income')
Ha! I'm old enough that 2017, when the "trading allowance" was introduced, feels like a year or two ago.. :-|
(Entrepreneurs' Relief was a thing that let you get reduced capital gains of 10% on up to £10m of proceeds from selling certain types of shareholdings or assets of a personal business. It's now called Business Asset Disposal Relief and has been decimated to just £1m.)
(Entrepreneurs' Relief was a thing that let you get reduced capital gains of 10% on up to £10m of proceeds from selling certain types of shareholdings or assets of a personal business. It's now called Business Asset Disposal Relief and has been decimated to just £1m.)
Oh, I wasn't trying to call 2017 distant - I thought it was much older than that and just had a name change or something.
It is a bit less of a problem for me lately, because I now feel somewhat more confident about many things in life. But for the most of my life, absolutely. It isn't like there is any real problem, but it was fear of the unknown for me. I was confident about how to make things, solve technical problems and such, and absolutely clueless about anything else. I was somewhat envious of how everyone files taxes on his own in USA. I just knew that my employer pays taxes for me, that I would have to if I want to start a business, and that I can get in jail if I fuck up. It isn't just about taxes, really, just anything law-related. But I had absolutely no idea what I actually have to do, or how do I even find out. I know it sounds silly, but it wasn't funny to me, it was infuriating helplessness.
Then I became older and just started caring less about doing things "the right way". It was liberating.
Then I became older and just started caring less about doing things "the right way". It was liberating.
A few hundred dollars?
Put it on Schedule 1 line 8z and work on making it a few thousand dollars for next time!
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040s1.pdf
Put it on Schedule 1 line 8z and work on making it a few thousand dollars for next time!
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040s1.pdf
I used to fear this, until I read posts on a similar site about how frequently founders botch this and how understanding the IRS is with these situations. Obviously this only applies to the US. When I saw my first success, I paid a CPA ~$1000 (for hundreds of thousands in revenue) to help sort out the first year of taxes (before they were due) and it wasn't a problem.
To summarize someone else's better point: worry about this problem when you have it. In the mean time worry about problems you have right now.
To summarize someone else's better point: worry about this problem when you have it. In the mean time worry about problems you have right now.
That's me. Note that I'm not a US citizen (in fact, I never set foot on US soil, nor I intend to, in my whole life), so your mileage may vary.
In the end, I decided to launch all my side-projects for free (sometimes I outright include a "non commercial" clause because I don't see why somebody should profit off my free work). I find this reduces all the project related stress to a fraction.
In the end, I decided to launch all my side-projects for free (sometimes I outright include a "non commercial" clause because I don't see why somebody should profit off my free work). I find this reduces all the project related stress to a fraction.
As a side hustler, even with pass-through taxation, you will still have to pay the self-employment tax (15.3% of net earnings) on top of taxes at your federal and state tax bracket. However, side-hustle money spent on qualified business expenses, is not taxable. (Tax people please chime in.)
Also, Social Security tax has a cap. If your day job + side project net income exceeds the cap, the excess will only incur Medicare tax.
I started doing the same but with macOS apps: https://lowtechguys.com
Reading about the author's projects in the past is actually what inspired me to do it.
I used Windows for a long time before as a power user (living my life in FarManager and WinAPI), then switched to Ubuntu with i3.
After finally switching to the Mac, I loved its simplicity and how it freed my mind from micro-managing the system, but I also noticed its shortcomings and how some things were better on Windows/Linux.
Nowadays I'm making small apps to overcome those macOS shortcomings, and help others find their carefree macOS setup where the system doesn't get in the way of real work.
And it's going pretty well! I've also shared the source of the framework [1] I'm using for these apps, so that I don't have to constantly reimplement payments, licensing [2], SwiftUI styles/components and utility functions on each new project.
[1] https://github.com/FuzzyIdeas/Lowtech [2] https://github.com/FuzzyIdeas/LowtechPro
Reading about the author's projects in the past is actually what inspired me to do it.
I used Windows for a long time before as a power user (living my life in FarManager and WinAPI), then switched to Ubuntu with i3.
After finally switching to the Mac, I loved its simplicity and how it freed my mind from micro-managing the system, but I also noticed its shortcomings and how some things were better on Windows/Linux.
Nowadays I'm making small apps to overcome those macOS shortcomings, and help others find their carefree macOS setup where the system doesn't get in the way of real work.
And it's going pretty well! I've also shared the source of the framework [1] I'm using for these apps, so that I don't have to constantly reimplement payments, licensing [2], SwiftUI styles/components and utility functions on each new project.
[1] https://github.com/FuzzyIdeas/Lowtech [2] https://github.com/FuzzyIdeas/LowtechPro
Any chance you could add licenses and maybe a screenshot to each of those repos?
I haven’t open sourced them in that sense. I don’t want to maintain them for others to use. I just shared the source code for inspiration.
I've been following these, and it seems like such a fun thing to do. He seems to have been lucky that he caught on to his real product on day 1 -- semi-viral blog posts.
Still I imagine it's hard for most people to go 2 years on a few thousand of sporadic revenue.
Still I imagine it's hard for most people to go 2 years on a few thousand of sporadic revenue.
I basically launch tiny projects full time, and have noticed that these have a power law to them. He'll mostly hit $0, with some occasional mid-hits as he has listed, but if he keeps at it I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the later projects make 10x as much as the best one now.
Ummm. Interesting about mailoji. Not actually legit according to ICANN to use "non collating" punycode or multiple languages in an ICANN-controlled domain: you can't register them.
But, it's a CC TLD, in fact it's .kz who I still carry a scar or two from when they issued some domains starting with "-": you know what happens when you "dig -yo.tld"? OWASP applies to domain names.
However, the RFCs for the actual _protocol_ declare a label can contain "any octet", so you can use and abuse this in FQDNs under your control and the internet police won't come to get you. "poop".example.com would be fine if you control example.com (either as a quoted string or as an emoji), so would "rm -rf *.example.com".
But, it's a CC TLD, in fact it's .kz who I still carry a scar or two from when they issued some domains starting with "-": you know what happens when you "dig -yo.tld"? OWASP applies to domain names.
However, the RFCs for the actual _protocol_ declare a label can contain "any octet", so you can use and abuse this in FQDNs under your control and the internet police won't come to get you. "poop".example.com would be fine if you control example.com (either as a quoted string or as an emoji), so would "rm -rf *.example.com".
I really like this idea of creating small projects instead of just building a startup as it would be too much work for me. Can you guys give me more examples about projects that generate money or least a lot of people use it for free.
Check out the #buildinpublic hashtag on Twitter. You’ll find many good examples.
Also Indiehackers.
Also Indiehackers.
As someone who has written down probably 100's of little ideas over the years, and never built even a single one of them ... I applaud you
My problem is a bit different, and I'm curious if others can relate. I constantly have a project in the works, but once I solve the interesting technical hurdles and prove that the concept works, I suddenly think of a "better idea" and never actually release anything. I've been in this cycle for the better part of a decade now.
But let me tell you, if my current project works out, I'll never have to work a W2 job again!
But let me tell you, if my current project works out, I'll never have to work a W2 job again!
100% this. I have become better about not nixing projects I am working on when I hit technical walls recently. My strategy has basically become to just do the bare minimum to test whether an idea is good or not and if it sucks I will at least have fulfilled my intellectual curiosity and then I can stop being distracted by that idea.
For example, I am currently working on a project to send personalized slack messages in bulk. But I then became really interested in the idea of automatic podcast transcription using GPT-3. So I ended up just one night banging out a prototype on jupyter notebook and it turns out the auto transcription was pretty bad and expensive, but at least I know now. So now I don't feel as bad and I can focus on the boring aspects of building this slack plugin, like accepting payments.
For example, I am currently working on a project to send personalized slack messages in bulk. But I then became really interested in the idea of automatic podcast transcription using GPT-3. So I ended up just one night banging out a prototype on jupyter notebook and it turns out the auto transcription was pretty bad and expensive, but at least I know now. So now I don't feel as bad and I can focus on the boring aspects of building this slack plugin, like accepting payments.
This is exactly me. It is like I get bored as soon as I realize that I could do something, and move on to the next thing.
The book "Refuse to choose" was really enlightening to me, it talks about "scanners", people that have this attribute. I felt very seen and it taught me that this style of working can be an incredible strength.
https://www.amazon.ca/Refuse-Choose-Interests-Passions-Hobbi...
The book "Refuse to choose" was really enlightening to me, it talks about "scanners", people that have this attribute. I felt very seen and it taught me that this style of working can be an incredible strength.
https://www.amazon.ca/Refuse-Choose-Interests-Passions-Hobbi...
I once had an artist friend who was world class in his medium. I mentioned to him one day that I have a lot of unfinished code and his response has stuck with for over 20 years.
He said great artists have one thing in common, they finish projects. It's OK to have a workshop full of experiments, but you must finish projects.
I've always taken it to mean that forcing your self to do that last 20% of a project is the only way to learn how to make something great.
He said great artists have one thing in common, they finish projects. It's OK to have a workshop full of experiments, but you must finish projects.
I've always taken it to mean that forcing your self to do that last 20% of a project is the only way to learn how to make something great.
I do this too, but the larger issue I face is that none of my ideas are even the slightest bit marketable.
I suppose I naturally gravitate to problem domains with little market potential. I don't know why.
I go into more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31217221
I suppose I naturally gravitate to problem domains with little market potential. I don't know why.
I go into more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31217221
Maybe, as a suggestion, launch a Notion page with your “100 side-project ideas I never got around to making” — perhaps this will get that juices flowing?
> Previously I'd used this code to buy facebook.网站, only for Marky Z to snatch it back from me. Cheeky bugger.
LMAO. The emoji emails is really cool though. [1]
[1] https://tinyprojects.dev/projects/mailoji
LMAO. The emoji emails is really cool though. [1]
[1] https://tinyprojects.dev/projects/mailoji
I find it kind of hilarious how many domain names have been bought during these projects, renewing all that must be a full time job.
Suppose he'll just make a tinydomainmanager.com or something.
Suppose he'll just make a tinydomainmanager.com or something.
That is odd that he would be involved with auditing duplicate domain names. You'd think FB the company would of done the snatching, not Mark Zuckerberg. neat.
While I want to execute the idea I am always put off by the essential administrative stuff such as user management, payment gateway linking, subscription management.
Are there any open source plug and play options available out there which can take away this tedious but important work?
Are there any open source plug and play options available out there which can take away this tedious but important work?
They other option is to not worry about those things. Start with a free product and see if people will even use that. Then worry about payment and subscriptions once you validate that people will use it.
Try to think about a way your product (or at least a minimal version of it) could work without "user management." Sounds counterintuitive but sometimes it is a requirement that has never really been thought about, just assumed to be necessary.
There are a few SaaS templates out there and services such as Memberstack that make it easier to implement the boilerplate SaaS features in Webflow. I'd also recommend just doing the boring work once and keeping that as a template for future projects.
There are templates like SaaSPegasus for Django (costs $) that will do all of those for you. I'm sure there are open source ones of various quality.
Give me some of your ideas, I will do the boring stuff
Same here, and one of them made it into an actual business: https://murmel.social
One of these days, I need to sit down and write th origin story of Murmel, and how I came to it.
Cheers!
One of these days, I need to sit down and write th origin story of Murmel, and how I came to it.
Cheers!
How many people pay for this?
More than I could have imagined in my wildest dreams. Including a few businesses that we've created tailor-made solutions for: https://blog.murmel.social/tailor-made-murmel-experience-for...
Loved this! Being able to limit scope and just build is a skill that too often gets lost
Have you written anywhere about the technology you use underneath - from languages to libraries to hosting?
I’ve got a few ideas somewhere between just started and half-written, but I often grind to a halt when it comes to figuring out sensible hosting. As an amateur, the world of AWS vs. GCE vs. Azure vs. Heroku vs. many, many others is difficult, and there are scary stories about out of control costs abound.
I’ve got a few ideas somewhere between just started and half-written, but I often grind to a halt when it comes to figuring out sensible hosting. As an amateur, the world of AWS vs. GCE vs. Azure vs. Heroku vs. many, many others is difficult, and there are scary stories about out of control costs abound.
Pick what you know, that way you can focus on the project.
Haven't tried this yet, but Oracle have a very generous free tier: https://www.oracle.com/au/cloud/free/#always-free
Build on the easiest thing possible (probably Heroku or a competitor). If you have to worry scale and how you'll pay for it then, well that's a good problem to have. Most projects won't get to that point.
How do you get people interested in your projects both from a consumer and production standpoint? Basically I am wondering what the best ways you have found to SELL whatever project you are working on (even if say the project is technically free to the end user) and also how do you sell someone else on collaborating with you?
I feel like having a bunch of tiny projects is probably a great way to learn a ton. I've slowed down on personal projects since graduation, but focusing on something tiny might be what I need to hear/do to get back into learning some new stuff. Good on the author/OP!
There's an undercurrent of subversive genius here, which is awesome. Great read!
How do I start coming up with all these actionable ideas? I mean, not that these are great, but it really doesn't matter for me, implementing them does. It just makes me feel ashamed for my lack of industriousness.
The world is full of interesting people doing interesting things, who come with interesting problems, who don't even know there might be a software solution for it.
On a tiny scale, I'm a programmer. I happen to be between programming jobs and to keep the roof over my head I'm working as a Medical Receptionist. I see lots of ways my skills (totally exotic in that arena) are useful. For example, I see someone doing brute-force hand search-and-replace on a document. I said, give me 10 seconds and I'll do it for you. Regexps, despite the "two-problems" joke, are fantastically powerful and made them drop their jaws. But there's larger problems I have written Powershell scripts to solve, python scripts, macros in the software they use, excel spreadsheets, etc. Whatever tool to get the job done.
Problems are everywhere where people are. Go talk to them.
On a tiny scale, I'm a programmer. I happen to be between programming jobs and to keep the roof over my head I'm working as a Medical Receptionist. I see lots of ways my skills (totally exotic in that arena) are useful. For example, I see someone doing brute-force hand search-and-replace on a document. I said, give me 10 seconds and I'll do it for you. Regexps, despite the "two-problems" joke, are fantastically powerful and made them drop their jaws. But there's larger problems I have written Powershell scripts to solve, python scripts, macros in the software they use, excel spreadsheets, etc. Whatever tool to get the job done.
Problems are everywhere where people are. Go talk to them.
The author addresses your question at the end.
> If you're stuck for ideas, I recommend just building something; anything; even if it's terrible, and I guarantee a better idea will pop into your brain shortly after.
> If you're stuck for ideas, I recommend just building something; anything; even if it's terrible, and I guarantee a better idea will pop into your brain shortly after.
It doesn't really address the question. There's no such thing as "something, anything". I mean, there obviously is for the author, but that's exactly the difference between our mindsets, which is exactly the problem. I know how to build a concrete thing, most of the time. I have no idea, how to build "something", most of the time. I mean, there always are exceptions and sometimes I can come up with something, but that obviously happens rarely enough, compared to the OP.
Why don't you just copy something he's already done? His point is that you just need to start.
I was going to ask how your host your projects since lots of small hosting fees can add up. I saw a guide on your site where you use Firebase, which would explain how you keep things cheap. Is that still your strategy?
I did this for a while (most never shipped) but I had a different idea that I haven't tried which is to set a small monthly budget and have others develop and maintain the tiny project. That way you get a whole different game to play. Some tasks are much cheaper than others and hiring experience is a lot more efficient than learning a new skill yourself.
I imagined myself [silently] looking at such projects to see how they progress. I had a lot of fun looking from afar after explaining to folks how to do websites in html.
I imagined myself [silently] looking at such projects to see how they progress. I had a lot of fun looking from afar after explaining to folks how to do websites in html.
This reminds me of Don Lapre’s placing tiny classified ads verbiage.
I've seen your projects before, and I am like you where I don't like projects that depend on me creating content but I rather like technical challenges. Great write up!
Very cool that you're launching projects!
I endeavour to do this as well.
Out of curiosity, what do you do to generate food to eat though? The projects don't appear to bring in much bread.
I endeavour to do this as well.
Out of curiosity, what do you do to generate food to eat though? The projects don't appear to bring in much bread.
I love this post. Thanks Ben. It's especially generous to share pageviews and revenue numbers which are so frequently kept private. I didn't though understand this point from the post:
> One other weird downside is that .. I sometimes catch myself thinking "should I build something just for the upvotes".
Is the author saying the attention from social media sites like Hacker News sometimes seems like motivation enough to build the next project?
> One other weird downside is that .. I sometimes catch myself thinking "should I build something just for the upvotes".
Is the author saying the attention from social media sites like Hacker News sometimes seems like motivation enough to build the next project?
This is awesome and what I initially set out to do but always found a way to talk myself out of it. I dream big. I found a project to stick to "completion" but it took me two years to build alone. I've only lost money but it's been a wild ride of an experience. This tiny project approach sounds like a lot of fun and conveniently my project will help me down that path while I try to market my work.
$18000 off of emoji email in kazakhstan? what the hell?
Of 700 different emoji domains, people love their cats, hearts, watermelon, rockets, smileys, etc ...
Also, are domains not $5-$10 say? ~$2000 on 'tiny projects'?
...ahh, read the full breakdown, it is approximately something like that, which seems crazy, but I dunno, guy has some money to spare and went nuts with the project and sold a bunch of accounts. (also weird, but tiktokers susceptible to random stuff I guess)
...ahh, read the full breakdown, it is approximately something like that, which seems crazy, but I dunno, guy has some money to spare and went nuts with the project and sold a bunch of accounts. (also weird, but tiktokers susceptible to random stuff I guess)
While reading the post, I realised that it was a really great idea to say the least but I was very shocked when I saw that OP earned $18000 off the project. Although, one down-side of using email addresses which contain emojis is that some email clients do not support them.
I remember seeing snormal on here a while ago. I played around with it briefly because the idea was refreshing, but ended up not coming back for a while because the scrolling was really painful in Firefox on Android.
The premise really resonates with me. I've often struggled with maintaining a presence on any social media, and barely ever post because everything'_s normal_.
The premise really resonates with me. I've often struggled with maintaining a presence on any social media, and barely ever post because everything'_s normal_.
Always, when I see someone doing this projects I wonder how easily is to do legal stuff with projects that don't offer you a high revenue.
How do you pay taxes for a international business? Do you have to pay in every country that you have s costumer?
Also, how do you make sure everything is legal in every country that it's accessible?
How do you pay taxes for a international business? Do you have to pay in every country that you have s costumer?
Also, how do you make sure everything is legal in every country that it's accessible?
I believe this is a good way to quickly filter through a bunch of ideas that may or may not work and stick with those that have potential. Luckily these days launching new ideas is easy. You don't need to invest too much money and time as long as you keep it simple and to the point.
This is very inspiring, thank you! Having never done it, I know first hand how difficult it can be to get your ideas out the door. It looks like you found the perfect tempo and scope, tiny projects rock.
What I found interesting is the iterative process. Failure is simply experience you carry forward to inform future decisions. Its not necessarily a permanent judgement that cripples you.
Anyone got any tips on how you write down your ideas? Physical pen an paper, digital, excel sheet, or word?
Properly want to vet ideas a bit before executing.
Bad idea, for a bunch of reasons, the largest being the fact that your "vetting" process is at best a very rough facsimile of reality.
Quick, iterative feedback is by far a superior approach when attempting to understand how to build a successful product.
Quick, iterative feedback is by far a superior approach when attempting to understand how to build a successful product.
Considering the amount of success and audience he's reached with this I'd say he's done just fine.
I actually agree with this. There are a bunch of low-cost ways to prototype and collect user feedback. The paper notebook idea could have started with surveying people and finding if anyone actually existed who say it would be useful and they would pay for it. Or even just launch a one-page product site with an email sign-up list to get notified when the alpha version releases and wait until it reached some critical mass. All of this would have taken less investment than actually building it first lol.
> It's a paradox, but I've found that my best ideas now come from building other ideas.
Building and failing and building and failing might be a faster way of getting to something great than vetting, vetting, vetting, building, vetting, vetting building...
Building and failing and building and failing might be a faster way of getting to something great than vetting, vetting, vetting, building, vetting, vetting building...
It’s only faster if you have the skills personally to build (which is many, but not all, HN users). If you don’t then vetting is a better place to start.
You have to, at the very least, vet the problem domain first though, no?
Building hundreds of AviSynth filters won't bring in a cent.
Building hundreds of AviSynth filters won't bring in a cent.
Part of this is learning from the “failures”. If you are building AviSynth filter #742, then maybe you are skipping that step.
On the other hand, if you are having fun and learning something along the way, who cares?
On the other hand, if you are having fun and learning something along the way, who cares?
Depends on how much time you plan on putting into it and if it sounds like fun. Most people have a bit of free time to spend on side projects, even if they're silly.
Or if you're going to learn something new. I do side projects when I want to learn websockets or something like that. Even when the project doesn't go anywhere, I got something out of it.
‘Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I know several thousand things that won’t work.’
I’m interested in finding out how did you come up the ideas? I’m trying to come up with ideas and drawing a blank.
The author mentioned it in the conclusion:”If you're stuck for ideas, I recommend just building something; anything; even if it's terrible, and I guarantee a better idea will pop into your brain shortly after.”
Great projects, has already kicked off some ideas for myself. Thank you for the inspiration!
I enjoy building stuff, but rarely have any ideas. Congrats on mastering the art of both!
Haven't you have problems with emojis emails? They are supported everywhere?
I loved this post. Congratulations, really cool tiny projects, I'm jealous.
Many thanks for sharing your stories with us! Very impressive and inspiring.
How do you even find ideas for these?
IMO tiny ideas like this are mostly for fun and learning, they don't need to be unique. Build another take on a blog or a game or utility or whatever you like to do online, but put your own spin on it.
Speaking from personal experience: just seeing what unsolved needs you have yields a lot of ideas. I had coworkers who would go to email something confidential to someone and click the wrong auto-complete contact and then we had a full-blown crisis. I thought "is there a way to stop that without the user hating me?" and that's how I got the idea for https://jiminyclick.com
Do people want to pay for that?
Yep. It costs a lot of money every time they make that mistake.
what's the fastest tech stack or other way to go from idea to product...
I'd say the one you know ?
For me it's react and firebase.
i always felt firebase was a trap, but i can see how having minimal backend can help you move forward fast. i guess ill learn it properly
Svelte/ Sveltekit
git clone [email protected]:asad-awadia/kotlin-server-app.git
Deploy to a VPS on DO or Linode
Deploy to a VPS on DO or Linode
What's the main advice you can give to a newbie, wanting to start more tiny projects himself?
Amazing advise, always been thinking of my next great idea and never have time to complete it