Update on Supply of iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 Pro Max(apple.com)
apple.com
Update on Supply of iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 Pro Max
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/11/update-on-supply-of-iphone-14-pro-and-iphone-14-pro-max/
427 comments
Wow, don’t think I’ve seen Apple issue a PR like this before. No doubt Apple’s considering now more than ever to continue to diversify their supply chain. China seems to have no issue continuing with their Zero-Covid approach.
I guess this is severe enough that they're obligated to let investors know.
It is. Workers are fleeing and returning home.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/31/fearing-covid-workers-flee-f...
These sources include some dramatic video:
https://nypost.com/2022/10/31/chinese-workers-jump-fence-to-...
https://hongkongfp.com/2022/11/05/we-were-scared-workers-at-...
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/31/fearing-covid-workers-flee-f...
These sources include some dramatic video:
https://nypost.com/2022/10/31/chinese-workers-jump-fence-to-...
https://hongkongfp.com/2022/11/05/we-were-scared-workers-at-...
Story circulating on Chinese Internet:
- Foxconn workers have to walk on highways for hundreds of miles with their luggage to go back home
- Villagers nearby set up free food and water distribution stalls en route
- Some scoundrels steal all the food and water
- The thief are forcibly sent to quarantine because they are now classified as close contacts to COVID positives
- Foxconn workers have to walk on highways for hundreds of miles with their luggage to go back home
- Villagers nearby set up free food and water distribution stalls en route
- Some scoundrels steal all the food and water
- The thief are forcibly sent to quarantine because they are now classified as close contacts to COVID positives
> - Foxconn workers have to walk on highways for hundreds of miles with their luggage to go back home
For anyone wondering why: It it because they are labeled as COVID close contact by health code system, so they cannot take public transport system even they have enough money.
For anyone wondering why: It it because they are labeled as COVID close contact by health code system, so they cannot take public transport system even they have enough money.
Similar to what happened to migrant workers in India during Initial lockdown. Many had to walk thousands of kms to reach their hometowns.
In India's case it was logistics issue. Initial decision was to keep migrant workers in place and provide them with daily necessities free. Some state govts didn't play ball and cut off electricity and rations. After that it took some time for central and various state govts to run special trains to the people. And it's not thousands of kms, 10s of kms.
Walking thousands of kms would indeed take a very long time!
But someone within 10km of home is scarcely a 'migrant worker' - you could start in south Mumbai, walk 30km north, and still be in Mumbai :)
But someone within 10km of home is scarcely a 'migrant worker' - you could start in south Mumbai, walk 30km north, and still be in Mumbai :)
This sounds vaguely like Gattaca.
how is protecting others from a still-deadly pandemic anything remotely like genetic-engineering of Uebermensch and social stratification? people aren't shunned for life because they got coronavirus, they are quarantined until they test negative again
Gattaca was protecting innocent children from inheriting inferior genes. Coronavirus 99.99% of children recover, but bad genes are 100% for life!
zarzavat(1)
Great information. Sad labor life.
The YouTube channel 'China Insights' provides a great breakdown as well:
- Zhengzhou Foxconn Factory: 10,000+ workers flee covid lockdown/Apple iPhone Production Plunges (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9DXebls8Bc)
- Zhengzhou Foxconn workers keep on fleeing and now China locks down area around 'iPhone city' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKBAeie5wY)
- Zhengzhou Foxconn Factory: 10,000+ workers flee covid lockdown/Apple iPhone Production Plunges (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9DXebls8Bc)
- Zhengzhou Foxconn workers keep on fleeing and now China locks down area around 'iPhone city' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKBAeie5wY)
That's an interesting channel, though I've personally found it problematic. Nearly all its videos are very strongly negative on China. That makes me wonder do they have an agenda and are they twisting the truth in some cases? Would be great to get any insight on this.
Do they have an agenda? Absolutely.
Are they twisting the truth? It is difficult to say without corroborated information that poses an alternate read of the facts.
Is it cherry picking information? Almost certainly.
If you trust the translation in the voice overs or subtitles and the sources of the videos themselves, there is still a lot of material there.
Spotlight on China is another that has news about China's economics / industry / politics for outside of China consumption that doesn't appear to be state media.
Are they twisting the truth? It is difficult to say without corroborated information that poses an alternate read of the facts.
Is it cherry picking information? Almost certainly.
If you trust the translation in the voice overs or subtitles and the sources of the videos themselves, there is still a lot of material there.
Spotlight on China is another that has news about China's economics / industry / politics for outside of China consumption that doesn't appear to be state media.
Direct link to the video
https://nitter.net/StephenMcDonell/status/158663367115021107...
It looks very disturbing to see them hauling their luggage (why do they have luggage at their place of employment?) out of something that I can only interpret to look like a prison.
https://nitter.net/StephenMcDonell/status/158663367115021107...
It looks very disturbing to see them hauling their luggage (why do they have luggage at their place of employment?) out of something that I can only interpret to look like a prison.
It is known as Foxconn City where workers all live on campus, good article from 2017 for more context https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-l...
> why do they have luggage at their place of employment?
Because it's also their place of residence.
Because it's also their place of residence.
Large Chinese factories are usually staffed by migrant workers who are housed in company owned dorms.
Important note for anyone that doesn't already know, migrant in this context refers to internal migration from far off home towns as opposed to "immigrant" in the context of temporary farm labour migrant workers migrating in from another country where such work forms part of their visa arrangements (Australia's migrant worker visas, pick some fruit, do some backpacking) or is part of seasonal regional migration over the border such as parts of the USA where Mexican workers legally migrate on short temporary work visas during farm's harvest seasons.
[deleted]
Ever heard of company towns?
Yes, but not ones where you're fenced in with barbed wire and can't leave.
I thought the concept of company towns was more financial and economic slavery, eg your company gives you a mortgage to a buy a house from the company, all near work so you can work long hours, and you're essentially an indentured servant.
But this is actual slavery, these people are literally locked in and can't leave except by crawling over barbed wire fences.
I thought the concept of company towns was more financial and economic slavery, eg your company gives you a mortgage to a buy a house from the company, all near work so you can work long hours, and you're essentially an indentured servant.
But this is actual slavery, these people are literally locked in and can't leave except by crawling over barbed wire fences.
I live in a multi-apartment house. When COVID started, one of tenants was found COVID-positive. Our entire house was locked by authorities for two weeks. It was forbidden to leave it, there was car with policeman and barricades. The only way to get food was to order it with online delivery.
It was so crazy.
In other cities authorities literally welded doors and cut small windows: https://newtimes.kz/storage/news/news/2020/04/05/5e8973f787b...
Thankfully this hysteria did not last long.
It was so crazy.
In other cities authorities literally welded doors and cut small windows: https://newtimes.kz/storage/news/news/2020/04/05/5e8973f787b...
Thankfully this hysteria did not last long.
Where do you live? That sounds absolutely insane.
A closer analogy would be to an oilfield "man camp" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGg57r9wK0) — temporary housing for a bunch of people who have signed up to do a few months' stint of work in a job that requires them to be in the middle of nowhere to do that job (because that's inherent to the nature of the job.) They're a lot like military encampments, actually.
The real question is why these factories are built in the middle of nowhere. There's no clear need for it; no reason they couldn't just be built in cities. They're not heavy industrial polluters or anything that would make people not want them in city limits.
The real question is why these factories are built in the middle of nowhere. There's no clear need for it; no reason they couldn't just be built in cities. They're not heavy industrial polluters or anything that would make people not want them in city limits.
Price of the land might be cheaper? Also more space for expansion.
Or, makes it easier to convince workers to live on-prem, which leads to them working longer hours. 9-9-6!
They can’t leave because of COVID restrictions not because of Apple.
Was that barbed wire fence constructed recently just for COVID lockdowns, or has it been there the whole time?
The story I heard was that it was to stop people coming in who wanted to work there. From the video I saw the barbed wire was tilted outwards.
Those things that are generally recognised as a dark part of our history that should not be repeated?
The bad part of company towns was that they didn’t pay you in normally accepted currency. It’s not the part where they gave you housing.
Japanese companies also own worker housing, sometimes even owning the CEO’s house (as a way of making his wages look lower). Some of them are also abusive, doesn’t mean they all are.
Japanese companies also own worker housing, sometimes even owning the CEO’s house (as a way of making his wages look lower). Some of them are also abusive, doesn’t mean they all are.
The bad parts were nothing was public. The police,the roads,schools or even laws.
gzer0(3)
This is super bad news for Apple — Zengzhou having a massive lockdown will scare away workers for a while unless they promise to pay big jumps in salary to come back I would imagine.. Apple shifting tons of production to India is super bad news for China and this is definitely going to accelerate it. Zhengzhou is Uber important to apple’s iPhone production.. so my guess is that Foxconn production is essentially zero right now and will be for a month before lines get back up to speed.. (lockdown is supposed to be 7 days) but these production lines are massive, so could impact production for an extended period if workers are nervous to come back. Likely could cost Apple tens of billions in revenue..
Likely could cost Apple tens of billions in revenue..
If it were that bad, Apple would have said something more in their press release.
If things get worse, there will be another press release.
If it were that bad, Apple would have said something more in their press release.
If things get worse, there will be another press release.
Apple is known for having some of the lowest inventory in their “just in time” supply chains. Major Disruptions like this have an immediate impact.
Interestingly, this does not affect iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Plus. Either the production lines for them are not affected (yet) or Apple have plenty of inventory for the holiday season.
They are made in India. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/09/26/apple-manufacturing-iph...
I just ordered a M2 Macbook Air and apparently they ship those directly out of China. It's already cleared customs in Zhengzhou according to tracking, which would indicate they make those there and have no issues fulfilling orders currently.
> ...which would indicate they make those there and have no issues fulfilling orders currently.
Based on FY22 total net sales[1], the entire Mac category accounted for 10.2%, whereas iPhone category accounted for 52.1%.
In other words, if iPhone production volume were reduced by just -10% of FY22 levels going into the holidays, that would be equivalent to half of Mac revenue!
The press release was making forward-looking statements so you may be correct, but this thought experiment suggests that even if they were experiencing Mac throughput issues, it's almost irrelevant if the same facility is being shared with iPhone production.
[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/0000320193220...
Based on FY22 total net sales[1], the entire Mac category accounted for 10.2%, whereas iPhone category accounted for 52.1%.
In other words, if iPhone production volume were reduced by just -10% of FY22 levels going into the holidays, that would be equivalent to half of Mac revenue!
The press release was making forward-looking statements so you may be correct, but this thought experiment suggests that even if they were experiencing Mac throughput issues, it's almost irrelevant if the same facility is being shared with iPhone production.
[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/0000320193220...
I've seen that as well… one machine I ordered was misrouted via Korea (as per the tracking page) and arrived here in Germany with a few days delay.
It just seems like nobody wants the 14 or 14 Plus, there hasn't been any demand and apples been cutting back production there
The Apple Store near me told me that the 14 Plus sold less than even the 13 Mini. Which is kind of wild to me, I thought most wanted bigger phones and huge batteries, which is why the Mini line was killed. I say that as someone who thinks the 13 Mini is the best phone I’ve ever owned, but I always figured it was niche compared to huge phones
Yeah the 13 mini is a pretty excellent form factor. It fits in most hands, pockets, and slots in bags. It’s even small enough to toss in a suit jacket without being visible or causing the jacket to sag.
Fits in most hands, sure, but I never understood this "fits in pockets" obsession - tons of similar comments for all kinds of gadgets, when even a 2x version would fit any normal pocket (on a jeans say, or a coat) just fine.
Surely you've seen people who put their phone and wallet on a table before sitting down, because they can't comfortably sit with them in their pockets?
Mens' clothes have adapted significantly over the past 15 years to accommodate growing devices - it's just happened slowly enough that it's hard to notice.
Modern jeans are made with deeper front pockets; and a lot of sportswear has added/redesigned pockets. I have running clothes from 20 years ago with nothing but a space for some keys, and others with only shallow pockets with no button or zip - hardly suitable for carrying a $1000 phone! Modern running clothes often add a large, zipped, sweat-proof pocket specifically designed for carrying a phone.
People's experience of this will vary with their style preferences, naturally - nothing modern exceeds the pockets on a 1990s pair of cargo pants or JCNO jeans! And if you update your clothes regularly, your entire wardrobe might have gained large pockets without you noticing.
Mens' clothes have adapted significantly over the past 15 years to accommodate growing devices - it's just happened slowly enough that it's hard to notice.
Modern jeans are made with deeper front pockets; and a lot of sportswear has added/redesigned pockets. I have running clothes from 20 years ago with nothing but a space for some keys, and others with only shallow pockets with no button or zip - hardly suitable for carrying a $1000 phone! Modern running clothes often add a large, zipped, sweat-proof pocket specifically designed for carrying a phone.
People's experience of this will vary with their style preferences, naturally - nothing modern exceeds the pockets on a 1990s pair of cargo pants or JCNO jeans! And if you update your clothes regularly, your entire wardrobe might have gained large pockets without you noticing.
>Surely you've seen people who put their phone and wallet on a table before sitting down, because they can't comfortably sit with them in their pockets?
Yes, never understood them either. It's no issue to sit with a phone and wallet in the pocket/backpockets. This is more of a The Princess and the Pea-style issue than a real problem....
Yes, never understood them either. It's no issue to sit with a phone and wallet in the pocket/backpockets. This is more of a The Princess and the Pea-style issue than a real problem....
You may want to look at it from a non male perspective: for smaller people and tighter trousers or small exterior pockets on skirts and other clothing the smaller (mini) version often just fits and is one comfortable to wear even with regular movement (think of very tight stretching jeans).
I don't know, I have pretty normal guys' levi's jeans (model 514), waist size 30, length 32. The jeans fit comfortably, they're not painted on.
My iphone 7 fits ok-ish in my front pokets if I stand but I have to adjust it and pull it down when I want to sit. It's the main reason why I was looking at the 13 mini as opposed to the regular.
My iphone 7 fits ok-ish in my front pokets if I stand but I have to adjust it and pull it down when I want to sit. It's the main reason why I was looking at the 13 mini as opposed to the regular.
I find that the 13 mini is about the largest thing that is comfortable in my pocket while sitting or on a bike.
As for a coat/suit jacket I can always tell when someone has a large phone in their suit jacket pocket. If you care about that sort of thing it really ruins the line and drape of the jacket.
As for a coat/suit jacket I can always tell when someone has a large phone in their suit jacket pocket. If you care about that sort of thing it really ruins the line and drape of the jacket.
Hmm an iPhone mini leaves a small enough impression in a pocket that it is acceptable to run with it in a shorts pocket
An iPhone 14 plus barely fits 100% in some tighter pockets on jeans/trousers and gives significant restriction in movement and comfort. YMMV.
An iPhone 14 plus barely fits 100% in some tighter pockets on jeans/trousers and gives significant restriction in movement and comfort. YMMV.
Yeah, being able to run with it in my pocket is great too. I find the armbands are super uncomfortable.
You want to put it in the pocket and be able to move freely after that. It worked for me with Nokia 3310, it does not work the same with any modern phone.
My iPhone XS was deeply annoying in my jeans pockets. My 13 Mini is much better.
I was interested in the 14+ for a family member, but the pricing is awful. I'd rather go up to the 14 Pro or look into the 13 series (same phone for less).
I hope they bring back the mini if the plus flops.
Almost everyone I know having a big Iphone bought it because it was the most expensive one. No one does it because they like to hold a mini TV. I may be biased, but I have a wide sample.
When you can get an iPhone 13 Pro for almost the same price but it is objectively better (or alternatively get an iPhone 13 on clearance, which is almost the same device) it isn’t hard to see why the regular 14 isn’t selling amongst people who are upgrading early in the release cycle and are therefore more likely to be enthusiasts.
In what way is the 13 Pro better? Curious.
Than the iPhone 14 (non-Pro)? It has a brighter screen which runs at 120Hz (not 60) and it has the additional telephoto lens (and LiDAR, though I don't think there's any use for that still). I also think it looks nicer, but that's a personal preference.
Because Apple didn't upgrade the CPU in the non-pro this year the iPhone 13 Pro is still the better device.
Because Apple didn't upgrade the CPU in the non-pro this year the iPhone 13 Pro is still the better device.
Ah I think I misread. Thanks!
Even a less popular iPhone product would still easily be a massive production operation compared to most other electronic hardware being made.
Supply might be good for now but there's consequences in the near term.
Supply might be good for now but there's consequences in the near term.
The Pro and regular iPhone 14s and MacBooks are all built in different factories.
I don’t recall a similar announcement even at the height of COVID.
Do we know what’s now changed?
Do we know what’s now changed?
Three possible reasons:
1. Workers only get food if they show up for their shift. If they are sick and don't work, there is no place to get food in the Foxconn campus. Due to the lockdown, the workers can't order food delivered online if sick.
2. When local governments force people to quarantine, they are supposed to provide basic meals. However, it seems most workers who were quarantined recently did not receive any food or water for days because the local government expected Foxconn to provide it instead.
3. Someone made a viral video suggesting everyone who was quarantined in a dormitory room died of a new deadly disease.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKBAeie5wY
1. Workers only get food if they show up for their shift. If they are sick and don't work, there is no place to get food in the Foxconn campus. Due to the lockdown, the workers can't order food delivered online if sick.
2. When local governments force people to quarantine, they are supposed to provide basic meals. However, it seems most workers who were quarantined recently did not receive any food or water for days because the local government expected Foxconn to provide it instead.
3. Someone made a viral video suggesting everyone who was quarantined in a dormitory room died of a new deadly disease.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKBAeie5wY
Well any one of those three sound absolutely horrendous.
> 3. Someone made a viral video suggesting everyone who was quarantined in a dormitory room died of a new deadly disease.
This is now just routine, very easy way to get views (courtesy government of some country that chose to hush the beginnings of a pandemic).
This is now just routine, very easy way to get views (courtesy government of some country that chose to hush the beginnings of a pandemic).
One of Foxconn's biggest factories has been locked down because of COVID. They're one of the biggest suppliers of iPhone final assembly labour.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/02/apple-iphone-assembly-plant-...
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/02/apple-iphone-assembly-plant-...
lumost(4)
The last few months are the height of COVID in China.
This winter might be especially bad for covid in China. It's 1-2 years behind the rest of the world.
The policy in China is 1-2 years behind. Everyone else has realized that with Omicron a zero Covid policy is no longer feasible (and, where vaccination rates are high, not needed either), but that hasn't yet gotten through to Xi (or it has, but he thinks reversing the policy will somehow cause him to "lose face").
Not just policy, but immunity. Barring mass covid parties, it'll take China 1-2 years to get immunity on par with the rest of the world.
Expectations, I'd bet. During peak covid, everything was a bit like this - but now the perception is closer to "business as usual, with economic headwinds".
"Zhengzhou, China. The facility is currently operating at significantly reduced capacity. As we have done throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, we are prioritizing the health and safety of the workers in our supply chain."
From different news outlets and youtube channels that cover china's zero covid policy I feel the statement above referring to the health and safety of the Foxconn workers is pure PR puff.
I really like this youtube channel call China Insights witch gives some decent information on this exact Foxconn issues and how the workers are fleeing the lock-down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9DXebls8Bc
From different news outlets and youtube channels that cover china's zero covid policy I feel the statement above referring to the health and safety of the Foxconn workers is pure PR puff.
I really like this youtube channel call China Insights witch gives some decent information on this exact Foxconn issues and how the workers are fleeing the lock-down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9DXebls8Bc
It is now the height of Covid in China because they refused effective western vaccine help (because apparently that hurts Xi’s feelings).
> China seems to have no issue continuing with their Zero-Covid approach
I imagine it's politically difficult. If they open the floodgates, it's going to be worse than for most other countries because they haven't had a chance to build natural immunity from exposure, only from vaccines. And any wave of infections is going to be seen as a failure of zero-covid, making the hardships of it meaningless; a failure of the party.
I'm not sure how they are going to get out of it without letting some heads roll. Maybe a wonder vaccine that will make all of China immune.
I imagine it's politically difficult. If they open the floodgates, it's going to be worse than for most other countries because they haven't had a chance to build natural immunity from exposure, only from vaccines. And any wave of infections is going to be seen as a failure of zero-covid, making the hardships of it meaningless; a failure of the party.
I'm not sure how they are going to get out of it without letting some heads roll. Maybe a wonder vaccine that will make all of China immune.
It's more about saving face. China has being beating the drum for 3 years that it's covid policy has been successful and it should be the poster child of covid response and every other country is wrong and sucks.
If they end zero-covid policy it's admitting they were wrong and that its failed.
On the flip side their covid vaccine has also being a failure.
If they end zero-covid policy it's admitting they were wrong and that its failed.
On the flip side their covid vaccine has also being a failure.
> On the flip side their covid vaccine has also being a failure.
I think this is the bigger one -- studies indicate it's not nearly as effective as the western (mRNA) Covid shots, but China refuses to use the western shots. If they open the floodgates and (to absolutely no one's surprise) death rates spike, it proves that the Chinese shot was indeed mostly useless.
I think this is the bigger one -- studies indicate it's not nearly as effective as the western (mRNA) Covid shots, but China refuses to use the western shots. If they open the floodgates and (to absolutely no one's surprise) death rates spike, it proves that the Chinese shot was indeed mostly useless.
I do think that their covid policy (though not the way it was implemented) was the right way to go in the first two years. But with Omicron, the game has changed, as it is extremely contagious.
Implementing strict hygiene precautions is still important - especially in dense populated regions and at work places with close contact. But this isolation at all costs and without taking proper care for the isolated, is just a disaster. Especially, if it can only slow down the spread, but no longer contain it.
Implementing strict hygiene precautions is still important - especially in dense populated regions and at work places with close contact. But this isolation at all costs and without taking proper care for the isolated, is just a disaster. Especially, if it can only slow down the spread, but no longer contain it.
> natural immunity from exposure
Note that you can't get immunity from exposure without .. being exposed, which means you get the side effects of exposure.
Note that you can't get immunity from exposure without .. being exposed, which means you get the side effects of exposure.
Exactly. And somewhere in 2021 many countries shifted to something that could be described as controlled exposure, weakening measures and causing more people to be exposed (whether vaccinated or not), at a level the health care system could cope with. Of course it was unfashionable to describe it like that, but the effect was a population better capable of dealing with it.
Effective vaccines exist but China refuses help due to nationalism.
The Chinese vaccine is pretty good, so their population is already well protected, assuming they have been vaccinating everyone as thoroughly as they have been locking them down…
I think one problem in China is that old people have resisted being vaccinated because they don’t trust the authorities. And old people are obviously the most at risk of dying or being seriously ill. It’s a made in China problem, for sure.
I think one problem in China is that old people have resisted being vaccinated because they don’t trust the authorities. And old people are obviously the most at risk of dying or being seriously ill. It’s a made in China problem, for sure.
is it? i keep hearing otherwise: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02796-w
A Chinese post-doc came to join my group 1 year into the pandemic. He took an antibody test, which should have shown antibodies due to his 2 doses of Sinovax.
Nada.
The first thing he after he arrived in the US was to get vaccinated.
Perhaps you have evidence that Sinovax works?
Nada.
The first thing he after he arrived in the US was to get vaccinated.
Perhaps you have evidence that Sinovax works?
About 50% of 80+ Chinese citizens are unvaccinated.
It’s really quite amazing China hasn’t forced them to vaccinate.
It’s really quite amazing China hasn’t forced them to vaccinate.
It is a chicken and egg problem. When you have no COVID cases, the risk of taking a vaccine for older people (its side effect) may outweigh the benefits. However, once it cannot contain COVID cases anymore, the benefits/costs calculation will change drastically and they cannot get vaccinated fast enough then. It is a dilemma that the China government needs to resolve, there is no way they can continue with this zero COVID policy forever.
Why does it not? The ethics of forced vaccination notwithstanding, if China is okay with using its authoritarian rule to impose massive lockdowns repeatedly, surely it'd be comfortable using its power to force vaccination?
Because their vaccines aren’t good enough compared to mRNA. And that would show the world they aren’t a leader.
I don't understand. How would forced vaccinations make either of those situations worse?
Because it would embarrass China. Their failure would be on display for the world to see.
Why would forced vaccinations make their failure more visible?
My first thought was that it’s shocking to see an announcement like this on a Sunday. Then I realized they might be hoping the news gets buried. But with the election on Tuesday, I think that would have happened either way!
shocking to see an announcement like this on a Sunday. Then I realized they might be hoping the news gets buried
When companies want to bury the news, they release it on Friday. It's called "taking out the trash."
/Former journo
When companies want to bury the news, they release it on Friday. It's called "taking out the trash."
/Former journo
I’ve heard that, but isn’t that assuming the news will be released on a weekday? I can’t remember the last time a corporate press release went out on a Sunday.
Yes, if Apple wanted to bury, a Friday afternoon release would have been in order.
More likely these are new developments and Apple just heard of them relatively recently, keeping in mind that it's already Monday morning in China.
This is also quite likely retaliation from China for Biden's latest trade war actions. Apple, is after all, one of two major US companies whose share price has not been turned into rubble. Doing this days before Midterms, knowing how desperate the Democrats are, is perfect timing. If Apple's share price falls drastically, it will be headline news and will likely also materially impact most indexes.
What's the other major US company whose share price hasn't been rubble-ized? Why Tesla of course. And their biggest and - most likely - only profitable factory is in China.
More likely these are new developments and Apple just heard of them relatively recently, keeping in mind that it's already Monday morning in China.
This is also quite likely retaliation from China for Biden's latest trade war actions. Apple, is after all, one of two major US companies whose share price has not been turned into rubble. Doing this days before Midterms, knowing how desperate the Democrats are, is perfect timing. If Apple's share price falls drastically, it will be headline news and will likely also materially impact most indexes.
What's the other major US company whose share price hasn't been rubble-ized? Why Tesla of course. And their biggest and - most likely - only profitable factory is in China.
Hasn't been rubble-ized? TSLA's at $227 from a high of almost $400 this year, so I'm no sure what you mean. And given the shutdowns, it seems to me that Tesla's China factory would be the unprofitable one.
It’s Monday in China.
Back in late April/early May I was doing some travel and realized I had totally forgotten my 96 W charger for my work Macbook Pro at home. "Well," I thought, "no fun to spend my own cash on a new charger, but better than the disaster of losing capacity to work while traveling, guess I'll just pop into an Apple Store and pick one up."
They didn't have one. OK, I asked -- did they know anyone who did? "No clue, you might want to call Apple Support."
Doing so revealed that there were none of these available anywhere, and the schedule on which they were projected to be available was early July.
Fortunately, I had two fallbacks:
(1) I was traveling in metro LA, which meant that I could check craigslist or FB marketplace or whatever and maybe a handful of 15mm Angelinos would have something up for sale.
(2) The MBP charged via USB-C so presumably I could find anything that could deliver 96W or thereabouts and use it.
Option #1 panned out, but it was still a flashbulb moment for me indicating that we're not exactly in familiar territory economically. It isn't just consumption goods that are sometimes scarce, this was a key piece of equipment the lack of which might have interrupted my productive capacity entirely or forced the cost/adaptation of entirely new substitutes.
They didn't have one. OK, I asked -- did they know anyone who did? "No clue, you might want to call Apple Support."
Doing so revealed that there were none of these available anywhere, and the schedule on which they were projected to be available was early July.
Fortunately, I had two fallbacks:
(1) I was traveling in metro LA, which meant that I could check craigslist or FB marketplace or whatever and maybe a handful of 15mm Angelinos would have something up for sale.
(2) The MBP charged via USB-C so presumably I could find anything that could deliver 96W or thereabouts and use it.
Option #1 panned out, but it was still a flashbulb moment for me indicating that we're not exactly in familiar territory economically. It isn't just consumption goods that are sometimes scarce, this was a key piece of equipment the lack of which might have interrupted my productive capacity entirely or forced the cost/adaptation of entirely new substitutes.
One thing about USB-C PD is that you don't need the 96W charger or even an Apple charger to charge your MacBook. While you may miss out on "fast charging" at maximum speed, any USB PD compatible charger will charge your MacBook at the fastest speeds available based on compatibility, automatically.
Anker chargers work fairly reliably, are more easily available than Apple chargers (on Amazon etc.) and there are several options for 100W+ PD available.
Anker chargers work fairly reliably, are more easily available than Apple chargers (on Amazon etc.) and there are several options for 100W+ PD available.
Unless this changed on newer MacBook, you don't even need USB PD. Even an old school A-to-C cable will work. Granted that's never something I'd want to use since it's incredibly slow, but it was a good backup the time I forgot to pack my 60w Gan charger. IIRC I only got the battery up to about 50% after charging overnight.
Yes, exactly. I know people love to hate on USBC but PD is generally excellent. I've often been in a case where I don't have my macbook charger but my 18W PD phone charger can keep my macbook going (and actually charge it quite slowly overnight).
One time I had my macbook pro plugged in, and was confused why it was (very slowly) still draining energy
An hour or so later I realized I was accidentally using my girlfriend's macbook air charging brick. It couldn't keep up, but it was supplying as much energy as it was able to
An hour or so later I realized I was accidentally using my girlfriend's macbook air charging brick. It couldn't keep up, but it was supplying as much energy as it was able to
I buy my colleagues two charges: one for portable use, and one that is tidied neatly behind their desk.
Since Apple has supported USB-C charging, I buy generic chargers with a cord-brick-cord arrangement, as these are much easier to hide in the cable tray of the desk. They're also about a third of the price, and have proper cable grommets so they last longer.
Since Apple has supported USB-C charging, I buy generic chargers with a cord-brick-cord arrangement, as these are much easier to hide in the cable tray of the desk. They're also about a third of the price, and have proper cable grommets so they last longer.
> you don't need the 96W charger
Depending on the workload and model of computer, 96W can absolutely be required, and a lower wattage inadequate. The new PD spec allows for up to 240w, with special cables required.
Depending on the workload and model of computer, 96W can absolutely be required, and a lower wattage inadequate. The new PD spec allows for up to 240w, with special cables required.
Yet, not for common workloads and 12+ hours of sleep per night.
You can put it into a medium power setting.
96W of drain will use up the maximum-size laptop battery in a single hour. It's not necessary.
96W of drain will use up the maximum-size laptop battery in a single hour. It's not necessary.
When I play Kerbal Space Program, which runs in mono, it uses the full 96W and doesn’t even charge the battery. Calculating that delta v is that hard.
> 96W of drain will use up the maximum-size laptop battery in a single hour. It's not necessary.
When I work in blender, especially in larger scenes, it's necessary. When I play games, it's necessary. When I run a long build in Unity, with a render pipeline stage, and the fans kick on, and I'm maxing out my laptop running 120w+, it's not even adequate.
There's a reason the new PD spec goes up to 240w (2.5x 96w), and it's not because they felt like it - playing games absolutely is a workload that requires it.
It's not necessary, for you. For those of us who do more than edit text files, it's extremely necessary.
When I work in blender, especially in larger scenes, it's necessary. When I play games, it's necessary. When I run a long build in Unity, with a render pipeline stage, and the fans kick on, and I'm maxing out my laptop running 120w+, it's not even adequate.
There's a reason the new PD spec goes up to 240w (2.5x 96w), and it's not because they felt like it - playing games absolutely is a workload that requires it.
It's not necessary, for you. For those of us who do more than edit text files, it's extremely necessary.
You don’t need anywhere near the full wattage, you will just charge slower. I frequently get by with a 60W charger, and I’ve even charged with the USB ports in my car which I think are 30W max.
I travel with a tiny 15W GaN charger, only slightly bigger than my thumb.
I don't know what you do with your MBP, but for 15W charges up overnight and holds battery level or even slowly charges while being used. If you're transcoding something or gaming perhaps you could get it to slowly discharge.
I don't know what you do with your MBP, but for 15W charges up overnight and holds battery level or even slowly charges while being used. If you're transcoding something or gaming perhaps you could get it to slowly discharge.
There are tons of things that cause my MBP to burn through power. Slack is the most obvious. Then, you have Chrome that will sometimes fire update some high rendering page.
The most sure fire way to kill the battery is fire up an IDE and do any sort of software development. Introspection, compilation, specs, etc all take up a bunch of battery.
With that being said, you certainly don't need 100W for a laptop. In fact, I'm not even sure my Mac can cool itself appropriately with high CPU usage and 50W of power.
Most people could get through a full day with a 15W charger. Laptop might be nearly dead at the end of the day, but 15W will fill it back up over night.
The most sure fire way to kill the battery is fire up an IDE and do any sort of software development. Introspection, compilation, specs, etc all take up a bunch of battery.
With that being said, you certainly don't need 100W for a laptop. In fact, I'm not even sure my Mac can cool itself appropriately with high CPU usage and 50W of power.
Most people could get through a full day with a 15W charger. Laptop might be nearly dead at the end of the day, but 15W will fill it back up over night.
Anecdotal, but my M1 Max seems to drain battery very slowly with my daily development with all kinds of things running. Firefox, Brave, Slack, VSCode, Mail, docker containers, etc. It's pretty amazing how long they last.
The other day I even accidentally left Factorio running because I got distracted getting my kid ready for school, and I hadn't noticed until a few hours later in a meeting when I heard the technology research sound. It was not plugged in the entire time, and I still had at least half the battery life.
The other day I even accidentally left Factorio running because I got distracted getting my kid ready for school, and I hadn't noticed until a few hours later in a meeting when I heard the technology research sound. It was not plugged in the entire time, and I still had at least half the battery life.
I have one of these and it is fantastic:
https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc151-100w-2-usb-c-port...
When I got it it was closer to $50, though, and not $70.
https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc151-100w-2-usb-c-port...
When I got it it was closer to $50, though, and not $70.
Other industries that depend on manufactured goods (not electronics) have been feeling this for a while.
Tried buying HVAC supplies recently? Flex duct has been very difficult to get for the past year, as have many other supplies and of course, the HVAC units themselves. I think Mitsubishi is still quoting next year for many of their products. Some areas even relaxed their energy codes (e.g. allowing R6 duct instead of R8) because of the shortages.
Tried buying HVAC supplies recently? Flex duct has been very difficult to get for the past year, as have many other supplies and of course, the HVAC units themselves. I think Mitsubishi is still quoting next year for many of their products. Some areas even relaxed their energy codes (e.g. allowing R6 duct instead of R8) because of the shortages.
In April 2020 I was in Mexico City, and needed to get a new Apple 30W charger for my M1 Air. After scouring a ton of local tech shops to not avail^, I finally trekked to the official flagship Apple store. And they had exactly ONE in stock.
It completely surprised me that even the official store serving a city of millions had such a limited inventory. And it's not even like it's an esoteric product, the 30W comes standard with all new Air laptops!
(They did say they get shipments from the US daily and could have one delivered the following day if they happened to be out, but I wanted to avoid another hr+ trek that way if possible. I've heard of JIT inventory managememt, but to keep it THAT thin at such a major retail location really blew me away!)
^Some had lower wattage Apple chargers, but not a single one had 30W or above.
It completely surprised me that even the official store serving a city of millions had such a limited inventory. And it's not even like it's an esoteric product, the 30W comes standard with all new Air laptops!
(They did say they get shipments from the US daily and could have one delivered the following day if they happened to be out, but I wanted to avoid another hr+ trek that way if possible. I've heard of JIT inventory managememt, but to keep it THAT thin at such a major retail location really blew me away!)
^Some had lower wattage Apple chargers, but not a single one had 30W or above.
I charge mine with a 12V lighter adapter:
https://twitter.com/efortis/status/1512063976007299075?s=20&...
Charger $25: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353767632151
AC to 12VDC converter $6: https://www.ebay.com/itm/381560744533
Charger $25: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353767632151
AC to 12VDC converter $6: https://www.ebay.com/itm/381560744533
> The MBP charged via USB-C so presumably I could find anything that could deliver 96W or thereabouts and use it.
Do macs let you trickle charge at lower power? If that works, you could limp along with any USB-C charger.
Do macs let you trickle charge at lower power? If that works, you could limp along with any USB-C charger.
One of the unique features of MacBook devices, is that as of the 2019 16", they can charge off of as little as 5V. I have powered mine from a power bank and cable that did not support "fast charging" (I think it topped out at 2-3A) and the computer charged just fine off it, albeit exceptionally slowly and barely at all when running.
If you are curious about what works with what, there is a YouTube channel called ChargerLab that tests different devices plugged into different chargers.
If you are curious about what works with what, there is a YouTube channel called ChargerLab that tests different devices plugged into different chargers.
Yes, you can get by on significantly less power if you can charge it while the lid is closed. It might just run on the USB-C power with the lid open, and say "not charging" but when the lid is closed it will start to fill up the battery to capacity.
Unless you have very stressful workloads, you should be able to use the laptop normally with a lower capacity power brick. It will just charge slowly or not at all. Absolute worst case you can close the lid to charge it.
there were none of these available anywhere
I had a similar experience.
I ordered a MacBook Pro charger August 2, and didn't receive it until October 13.
Luckily, I was just buying a spare, so I didn't need it urgently. But when shopping for anything these days, if I see it, I get it because it may not be available tomorrow, and may take weeks to arrive.
Heck, I ordered a Target gift card last week to give a a gift, and it's not expected to arrive until just before Thanksgiving. And it's just a gift card!
I had a similar experience.
I ordered a MacBook Pro charger August 2, and didn't receive it until October 13.
Luckily, I was just buying a spare, so I didn't need it urgently. But when shopping for anything these days, if I see it, I get it because it may not be available tomorrow, and may take weeks to arrive.
Heck, I ordered a Target gift card last week to give a a gift, and it's not expected to arrive until just before Thanksgiving. And it's just a gift card!
I don't get it, other than the Apple-y-ness of it all? Maybe that's not important but ... ?
Every single thing I own and need to function on a daily basis (other than my immersion water boiler for otg-espresso) operates on USB. Preferably type-c, but plenty of things still need a USB-A-to-C in the mix because resistors are hard, I guess.
Also, open hardware hackers,, my trimmer and touthbrush are basically internally identical. An we please make these inter hangeable?
Using a "thin-client" laptop with cheap default -cafe alliances d chesap ones means I can live out of a bag, using redundant chargers - either a tiny 45w charger that literally fits in my bu^H^H pocket, or charge my laptop, phone and Ledger using a 100W charger that is barely more than double the physical-size of the smaller charger.
Every single thing I own and need to function on a daily basis (other than my immersion water boiler for otg-espresso) operates on USB. Preferably type-c, but plenty of things still need a USB-A-to-C in the mix because resistors are hard, I guess.
Also, open hardware hackers,, my trimmer and touthbrush are basically internally identical. An we please make these inter hangeable?
Using a "thin-client" laptop with cheap default -cafe alliances d chesap ones means I can live out of a bag, using redundant chargers - either a tiny 45w charger that literally fits in my bu^H^H pocket, or charge my laptop, phone and Ledger using a 100W charger that is barely more than double the physical-size of the smaller charger.
My personal MacBook, personal Lenovo, and my work Dell all have (finally) USB-C
I only need one power cord, one dock, one USB-C monitor, for all of them. It's great.
My phone uses Lightning but I don't really mind. I have so many Lightning cables and USB ports in my computers and docks and outlets and powerstrips...
I only need one power cord, one dock, one USB-C monitor, for all of them. It's great.
My phone uses Lightning but I don't really mind. I have so many Lightning cables and USB ports in my computers and docks and outlets and powerstrips...
thankfully lightning's been deprecated too, so soon it'll all be usb-c
tangentially, I did a lot of travel this past summer
a lot of cities and towns are just not back, at all. they’re trying to have a bustling life but many local staples are closed, shuttered, resources strained. Opening hours just wrong and unknown, current existence of the place also unknown.
US, around Europe
kinda too bad. but yes unfamiliar territory economically
a lot of cities and towns are just not back, at all. they’re trying to have a bustling life but many local staples are closed, shuttered, resources strained. Opening hours just wrong and unknown, current existence of the place also unknown.
US, around Europe
kinda too bad. but yes unfamiliar territory economically
I run my 16" Pro (M1 ultra) on a 35w power delivery from my monitor daily - its plenty even under a fair bit of workload. The 95w is only used in extreme circumstances. Even compiling and light video editing isn't going to use enough to need anything more than 60w.
Probably an M1 Max -- afaik the Ultra is only for Mac Studio desktops.
I use a Gigabyte M28U monitor, which has 16W of charge. Pathetically low, but as long as I'm not compiling anything or running any especially heavy processes, it keeps my battery from draining! Clamshell results in a slow charge.
I use a Gigabyte M28U monitor, which has 16W of charge. Pathetically low, but as long as I'm not compiling anything or running any especially heavy processes, it keeps my battery from draining! Clamshell results in a slow charge.
Sorry yep you're right its the Max
Apple stores and authorized resellers haven't had high-watt chargers for very, very long time all over the world. I expect it's not a priority since only legacy laptops use them, but it sucks big time because I have one.
Part of the problem is that there are at least three different mag-safe connectors, as I recently found out. Had to order an old one recently and took a week or two to arrive.
I bought an iPhone 14 Pro with the thought “this needs to last me a couple of years.”
It’s not the color I wanted per se, but my old phone wasn’t working well for my needs and I figured continued supply chain issues would linger for awhile.
It’s only a matter a time before Apple starts making hardware closer to home en masse. Home, of course, being “not just in China.”
The era of de-globalization is upon us.
It’s not the color I wanted per se, but my old phone wasn’t working well for my needs and I figured continued supply chain issues would linger for awhile.
It’s only a matter a time before Apple starts making hardware closer to home en masse. Home, of course, being “not just in China.”
The era of de-globalization is upon us.
Which is scary because as more of this happens, there will be less reason for China to be nice.
Once there's no real reason for them to play nice with the west, we're going to see more problems.
Once there's no real reason for them to play nice with the west, we're going to see more problems.
Itll take a few years and in the meantime China will age out of feeling frisky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China
China can mandate minimum 3 kids per family, otherwise you are locked out of civilization.
I read that if they did this today, it wouldn't make a difference, it's too late to recover from now, mathematical impossibility.
The majority of their population is beyond the child bearing age so it's downhill from here no matter what policies they put in place, there's going to be a major population crash for them in the next 30 years.
Else...I'm sure Xi would've done it already.
The majority of their population is beyond the child bearing age so it's downhill from here no matter what policies they put in place, there's going to be a major population crash for them in the next 30 years.
Else...I'm sure Xi would've done it already.
there are 180 milion women aged 20-40. On Xi order they can give birth to 180 milion new Chinese citizens in 9 months.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101677/population-distr...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101677/population-distr...
Since we're talking about an amoral baby making law, the age bracket 16-36 is more realistic. Doesn't change much in terms of population, but also doesn't explain how it will be enforced.
However this is just the beginning. After that, assuming worst case labour practices, you have another 10-15 years of supporting increasingly expensive unproductive citizens before they can even start to pay back the costs on society they incurred by being born. It's a long slow road...
However this is just the beginning. After that, assuming worst case labour practices, you have another 10-15 years of supporting increasingly expensive unproductive citizens before they can even start to pay back the costs on society they incurred by being born. It's a long slow road...
As usual Neal Stephenson was ahead of the game. The plot to duplicate "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" is facilitated by Confucians needing educational materials for vast numbers of girls (maybe clones?) being raised on nursery ships.
They were unwanted daughters who were discarded by a society that wanted sons.
(and yes Stephenson is a genius)
(and yes Stephenson is a genius)
The babies don't come out ready to work in factories and invade Taiwan.
That fortunately Xi cannot order.
So roughly 20 years from now, after taking on a country-wide new baby-boom's worth of problems, they can use the fresh faces to resolve the problems they're facing today.
How the one child policy was allowed to happen is a mystery to me - surely someone saw this coming?
How the one child policy was allowed to happen is a mystery to me - surely someone saw this coming?
> Once there's no real reason for them to play nice with the west, we're going to see more problems.
What's new? They're not playing nice since Xi took over.
What's new? They're not playing nice since Xi took over.
We need to accept this and start immediately facing it head on. I'm talking a 5 Trillion Dollar investment into manufacturing in the US. Set a goal of 5 years. After that 5 years we cease any and all import from China and countries beholden to them.
While extracting and exporting every ounce of oil the US has. The profit made goes into Nuclear and Renewable Energy.
Next we Annex Canada and Mexico to further build out US infrastructure. We will dub this the Nation of North America.
While extracting and exporting every ounce of oil the US has. The profit made goes into Nuclear and Renewable Energy.
Next we Annex Canada and Mexico to further build out US infrastructure. We will dub this the Nation of North America.
Need to stage a false flag attack on a radio station first.
they hold a lot of us denominated debt
we are cool for awhile
we are cool for awhile
> The era of de-globalization is upon us.
Somewhat, but a lot is just diversifying away from China.
Somewhat, but a lot is just diversifying away from China.
Apple already makes the hardware closer to home for some parts while others come from everywhere other than China. The iPhone isn’t made in China. It’s assembled in China.
Is Apple going to really start moving out of China? So for only 2% of iPhones are assembled out of China and only one factory in Vietnam is being build.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/09/30/apple-will-take-a...
https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/09/30/apple-will-take-a...
I don't know why Apple isn't more diversified.
Forecasts are that China wants to forcibly reclaim Taiwan much sooner than anticipated. And maybe they are confident that China wouldn't retaliate against them but surely that's not a risk worth taking.
Foxconn has been asked to ramp up production in India but not sure if you would call it a success or not.
Forecasts are that China wants to forcibly reclaim Taiwan much sooner than anticipated. And maybe they are confident that China wouldn't retaliate against them but surely that's not a risk worth taking.
Foxconn has been asked to ramp up production in India but not sure if you would call it a success or not.
One of the reasons Shenzhen is iPhone assembly city is because there are so many little ancillary providers around for all the surface mount components that are common on PCBs.
If I'm running a PCB assembly line and my primary supplier of surface mount capacitors is the only guy within 50 miles, where do I get replacements from if something happens like there's a fire in his factory and it goes offline? In Shenzhen you go to the next guy down the street who's selling the exact same part.
So instead of being down for three days while finding a way to get an additional supplies airlifted in you can have probably have another supplier up and going before you run out of what's left in the lean manufacturing pipeline.
Before making the move to any labor market concerns like those have to be addressed or at least the risks mitigated. That takes time and costs serious money. As the SMT industry ramps up in more locations it'll be easier to diversify assembly locations.
If I'm running a PCB assembly line and my primary supplier of surface mount capacitors is the only guy within 50 miles, where do I get replacements from if something happens like there's a fire in his factory and it goes offline? In Shenzhen you go to the next guy down the street who's selling the exact same part.
So instead of being down for three days while finding a way to get an additional supplies airlifted in you can have probably have another supplier up and going before you run out of what's left in the lean manufacturing pipeline.
Before making the move to any labor market concerns like those have to be addressed or at least the risks mitigated. That takes time and costs serious money. As the SMT industry ramps up in more locations it'll be easier to diversify assembly locations.
Building diy devices with microcontrollers feels like a microcosm of this. Months of designing and coding and in the end you get hung up on some dumb connector that takes a month to ship. If I had an Aliexpress warehouse down the street I would be located there too.
Infrastructure and supply chain quality in China are on a completely different level to other developing countries. It's not really easy to break this coupling unless you're willing to make significant investments to partners in the new country. Samsung was forced to do that for Vietnam largely due to political instability. Now it's Apple's turn but it'll take several years to ramp up.
Is it possible even Apple does not have the resources to single handedly diversify the world’s most complicated supply chains?
It takes a decade to build up a supply chain for complex electronics products. Even though Apple, Foxconn, Wistron have started building in India, it's going to be a while before it's able to service the capacity that China is at and even longer before margins (both quality and profit) are up to where they are with their Chinese lines (which are more like city sized factories with tons of supporting infrastructure).
Yeah, Samsung somewhat recently started assembling phones in India, but they are a lot lower build quality compared to their Vietnamese or SK made units. Probably within a year or two India factory will catch up on quality, but unlike Samsung (who have a lot of budget models) Apple can't afford to ship internationally bad quality iPhones for a couple of years.
What's the source for lower build quality of Samsung's Indian made handsets?
Personal experience.
There is also this thing that working in Foxconn factories is apparently very though. And pushing the problem to third-parties seems to be very convenient in terms of reputation and salaries/contract.
Isn't the biggest problem with iPhone production that the volume is so high that very few places aside from China have the requisite number of engineers to build such a plant?
Remember hearing about Detroit back in the day? Where the transmission was made down the street from the auto factory. You probably didn't need to go more than 20 miles from the auto factory in Detroit to get 90% of the car parts. If one supplier had a problem, you'd just go to another that was only slightly more distant.
Shenzen is like that. Everything you need for electronics manufacturing of nearly anything is located in the city. This means that if part of the supply chain is disrupted in normal times, you could go get the same part from somewhere else not far away.
Today, the United States auto manufacturing isn't that way... and frankly it isn't even fair to say "United States auto manufacturing" - https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin...
So, here's the problem that Anyone building an iPhone would have - where do you get the capacitors on the board from? how much lead time do you need to keep the supply going? What happens if the supplier isn't able to send them? How big of an industrial base do you need to make all the parts and how distributed is that industrial base?
Shenzen is like that. Everything you need for electronics manufacturing of nearly anything is located in the city. This means that if part of the supply chain is disrupted in normal times, you could go get the same part from somewhere else not far away.
Today, the United States auto manufacturing isn't that way... and frankly it isn't even fair to say "United States auto manufacturing" - https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin...
So, here's the problem that Anyone building an iPhone would have - where do you get the capacitors on the board from? how much lead time do you need to keep the supply going? What happens if the supplier isn't able to send them? How big of an industrial base do you need to make all the parts and how distributed is that industrial base?
But the iPhones aren't assembled anywhere near Shenzen? The article mentions Zhengzhou which is about halfway up China (where Shenzen is at the southern edge).
in exchange for the Chinese market I guess
> I don't know why Apple isn't more diversified.
Possibly because they've got a former CFO running the company which causes a myopic view towards profit rather than interesting hardware development. The age of apple dropping new product idea after new product idea is long past.
Possibly because they've got a former CFO running the company which causes a myopic view towards profit rather than interesting hardware development. The age of apple dropping new product idea after new product idea is long past.
I can't edit or delete the above post so please disregard it. It is incorrect.
Isn’t that argument directly opposite?
A finance-oriented CEO that is concerned with profits should be more concerned with instability and risk, compared to a product oriented CEO who would be concerned about the next hot thing.
A finance-oriented CEO that is concerned with profits should be more concerned with instability and risk, compared to a product oriented CEO who would be concerned about the next hot thing.
Tim Cook was never the CFO.
They are also moving into India. I would expect they're very happy to encourage protectionist laws encouraging/requiring them to build phones in countries they sell to. It allows them to tell their Chinese partners that they have no choice in moving some manufacturing away.
I guarantee you the US government is currently having backroom conversations with various companies that go, "if/when China invades Taiwan, we're cutting off all trade and we're not going to wait for you to be ready". It will probably be advantageous to be one of the ones already safely decoupled by the time this happens.
You really think so? EU are still buying Russian gas today.
Why would they do that when they promised CCP to invest into the Supply Chains.
Diversifying a supply chain is not so easy. Takes tooling, JiT/Sequencing of parts, etc. Apple is going to have to invest (subsidize) to build it up from scratch.
And frankly I don't see Pegatron, Wistron, and Foxconn being too eager to do this. I've heard they're already dragging their feet.
And frankly I don't see Pegatron, Wistron, and Foxconn being too eager to do this. I've heard they're already dragging their feet.
> Apple is going to have to invest (subsidize)
These terms should not be used interchangeably, the meaning is totally different. You expect to see financial returns from investment
These terms should not be used interchangeably, the meaning is totally different. You expect to see financial returns from investment
You also expect to see financial returns from subsidies. The meaning isn't totally different. They are just a type of investment.
An investment is expected to yield a financial return. You subsidise something fully willing to incur financial losses because you are pursuing non-financial goals (such as greener energy, jobs, ...).
not at all, some subsidies are humanitarian, or purely political.
If you have deeper pockets, you could subsidise your products to bancrupt competitors, a technique called dumping.
EU subsidised renewables to enable renewable tech development - a worthy goal, but not an investment. UK founded the Green Investment bank, it did actual investment into R&D and construction. Same goal, but one us subsidy, one is investment.
US corn subsidies no longer make any sense - but cannot be removed because it would piss off a major voting block. If you were to su sidise farming from scratch, you would at least pick a variety of plants to make a balanced meal nutritionally
If you have deeper pockets, you could subsidise your products to bancrupt competitors, a technique called dumping.
EU subsidised renewables to enable renewable tech development - a worthy goal, but not an investment. UK founded the Green Investment bank, it did actual investment into R&D and construction. Same goal, but one us subsidy, one is investment.
US corn subsidies no longer make any sense - but cannot be removed because it would piss off a major voting block. If you were to su sidise farming from scratch, you would at least pick a variety of plants to make a balanced meal nutritionally
Again, you are describing every kind of investment, not just subsidies.
> not at all, some subsidies are humanitarian, or purely political.
Considering that we’re talking about Apple subsidizing factories to diversify its supply chain, do you think we’re talking about humanitarian and political subsidies at all? I’m sorry but it seems that people are deliberately being obtuse here.
Considering that we’re talking about Apple subsidizing factories to diversify its supply chain, do you think we’re talking about humanitarian and political subsidies at all? I’m sorry but it seems that people are deliberately being obtuse here.
Serious question: is COVID-19 still a thing? From wherever on Earth and whoever I see, life is completely back to normal though I have no friends in China.
Is COVID still impacting work in China?
Is COVID still impacting work in China?
I was contemplating a visit there for work.
14 day quarantine in a state hotel, you're not allowed to leave the room. A further 7 day quarantine in another hotel though you're allowed to leave for work. Crazy.
14 day quarantine in a state hotel, you're not allowed to leave the room. A further 7 day quarantine in another hotel though you're allowed to leave for work. Crazy.
You just described the best case scenario. It is also possible that whatever city you visit you could have a Covid lockdown of indeterminate length due to the insane zero Covid policy.
[deleted]
China is still trying to aggressively maintain a zero covid policy
This is kind of fascinating. I’m not a Covid denier or anything along those lines, but a zero covid policy at this point (widely available vaccinations, clear endemic status) just seems like a crazy policy. Like maybe the craziest thing I’ve heard of from modern China
The craziest thing is that increasing amounts of Chinese people agree, and the CCP (read: Xi) still has not blinked.
Why is it crazy? It’s not endemic in China, and even if everybody in China were fully vaccinated, getting to endemic state would result in millions dead. Covid is still dangerous in aggregate, even with a vaccine. There’s 1.4 billion people in China; even a tiny fraction of them dying of Covid would be a huge death toll. And that’s not counting the permanent disabilities resulting from long Covid.
What’s crazy is this idea that just because the rest of the world has given up on stopping Covid, that China should just let it rip. That would be devastating to China, why would they do that? Even if you don’t care about the death and disability, it doesn’t make economic sense. Temporary targeted lockdowns are less damaging to the Chinese economy in both the short and long term than rampant death and disability.
What’s crazy is this idea that just because the rest of the world has given up on stopping Covid, that China should just let it rip. That would be devastating to China, why would they do that? Even if you don’t care about the death and disability, it doesn’t make economic sense. Temporary targeted lockdowns are less damaging to the Chinese economy in both the short and long term than rampant death and disability.
> That would be devastating to China, why would they do that?
To let people get on with life.
The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away.
China's people want to do the same, but Xi doesn't care, that's the only reason this policy still exists.
It comes down to not giving a shit about what your citizens want.
To let people get on with life.
The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away.
China's people want to do the same, but Xi doesn't care, that's the only reason this policy still exists.
It comes down to not giving a shit about what your citizens want.
> To let people get on with life.
But people in China are getting on with life. Lockdowns are the exception, not the rule.
You’re also ignoring the millions of people that would die or become disabled. That’s not “getting on with life”, that’s the opposite.
> The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away.
No they didn’t. Those were decisions governments made, there was no vote. They were also decisions made after Covid became endemic in those countries. The consequences for China to let it rip when hardly anybody in China has had Covid are entirely different to the consequences for other countries to let it rip when it’s already endemic. China isn’t in that position so why would they make decisions as if they were when the consequences are so different?
> China's people want to do the same
How have you determined that?
But people in China are getting on with life. Lockdowns are the exception, not the rule.
You’re also ignoring the millions of people that would die or become disabled. That’s not “getting on with life”, that’s the opposite.
> The people of the world overwhelmingly voted to get back to life even though COVID hasn't gone away.
No they didn’t. Those were decisions governments made, there was no vote. They were also decisions made after Covid became endemic in those countries. The consequences for China to let it rip when hardly anybody in China has had Covid are entirely different to the consequences for other countries to let it rip when it’s already endemic. China isn’t in that position so why would they make decisions as if they were when the consequences are so different?
> China's people want to do the same
How have you determined that?
Note that not all deaths are equal economically. The vast majority will be bedridden people on their last legs being pushed over the edge due to covid.
These people have a negative impact on the economy.
These people have a negative impact on the economy.
You might be right, but, the perspective you're describing basically advocates disregarding the lives of those at risk of a COVID death in favor of making more money.
How much does a life cost? In the rest of the world that basically failed to contain the virus, it wasn't a question to begin with, since lockdowns didn't really work. China was somewhat successful in its lockdowns because it had ways to enforce the admittedly draconian measures -- so, how much does a life cost?
How much does a life cost? In the rest of the world that basically failed to contain the virus, it wasn't a question to begin with, since lockdowns didn't really work. China was somewhat successful in its lockdowns because it had ways to enforce the admittedly draconian measures -- so, how much does a life cost?
> How much does a life cost?
About $3500: https://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities
Used to be about $100 a couple of decades ago, but the low hanging fruit has been mostly picked by good people.
About $3500: https://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities
Used to be about $100 a couple of decades ago, but the low hanging fruit has been mostly picked by good people.
> The vast majority will be bedridden people on their last legs
Do you have a citation for that? There’s a big jump in mortality at age 50+, but that’s not the same thing as “the vast majority are bedridden people on their last legs”.
Also, death is only part of the problem. Long Covid affects people of all ages. A typical twenty-something factory worker might not die of Covid, but that doesn’t mean long Covid can’t make them economically inactive.
Do you have a citation for that? There’s a big jump in mortality at age 50+, but that’s not the same thing as “the vast majority are bedridden people on their last legs”.
Also, death is only part of the problem. Long Covid affects people of all ages. A typical twenty-something factory worker might not die of Covid, but that doesn’t mean long Covid can’t make them economically inactive.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
Majority are 80+ and will disproportionately by the more sickly of those.
Don't have good enough data on long covid to discuss it.
Majority are 80+ and will disproportionately by the more sickly of those.
Don't have good enough data on long covid to discuss it.
Once you have the population vaccinated [1], you either make the measures permanent, or you drop them. I don't think a state of affairs is sustainable in which travel is severely restricted, borders are closed, and anytime a case flares up somewhere, the city shuts down for two weeks.
So what's the criterion for an exit from Zero COVID?
[1] and China is at around 90% vaccination. They might not be good vaccinations, though. But assume, for the sake of the argument, it had the population vaccinated as well as possible.
So what's the criterion for an exit from Zero COVID?
[1] and China is at around 90% vaccination. They might not be good vaccinations, though. But assume, for the sake of the argument, it had the population vaccinated as well as possible.
It only makes sense if they have overloaded medical systems or they expect outcomes to improve. Maybe they are waiting for their Chinese developed MRNA vaccine or better access to Paxlovid?
Yes it's crazy, to say the least
What is the vaccination rate there?
Are their vaccines as effective? New variants?
Are their vaccines as effective? New variants?
The Chinese government lobbied HARD against the western RNA vaccines in the beginning.
Their own vaccine didn't work with the newer variants, RNA stuff worked.
It was too late to undo the lobbying they did in the first place. Now lockdowns are their only option to stop a pandemic. On the other hand the lockdowns are so strict that people are dying because of them (no food, medicine, etc. Doors physically welded shut)
Their own vaccine didn't work with the newer variants, RNA stuff worked.
It was too late to undo the lobbying they did in the first place. Now lockdowns are their only option to stop a pandemic. On the other hand the lockdowns are so strict that people are dying because of them (no food, medicine, etc. Doors physically welded shut)
Covid is peaking in China now. It’s like April 2020 for them.
Luckily it's not a much milder virus now (Omicron vs original strains) and 90%+ of cases are asymptomatic...
Its important to note: China was extremely late to the mRNA vaccine game. The vast majority of their population was vaccinated with traditional inactive virus vaccines, which have been observed to be less effective than mRNA. Their mRNA vaccine, Walvax's ARCoV, is still in phase 3 trials.
They're among the oldest populations in the world; using outdated vaccine technology; on a population that's the most dense in the world; and a governmental culture of understating statistics to make the party look good.
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01690-3
They're among the oldest populations in the world; using outdated vaccine technology; on a population that's the most dense in the world; and a governmental culture of understating statistics to make the party look good.
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01690-3
What if delaying vaccination for older people is a way to solve the problem they’re having with an ageing population?
You are commenting on a press release where apple is saying that covid19 is impacting the factories where their iPhones are made.
Yes. Covid is still impacting work in China.
Yes. Covid is still impacting work in China.
In the US 360 people die each day from COVID, about three times more than a significant flu season. For them and their family it’s still a thing I suppose. But given the low vaccination rates in China and the low natural immunity it’s necessarily a thing.
I don’t know how they exit their zero COVID policy. Given how draconian they are in other respects I’m surprised it’s so hands off with respect to vaccination.
I don’t know how they exit their zero COVID policy. Given how draconian they are in other respects I’m surprised it’s so hands off with respect to vaccination.
China has far more restrictions than others when there are outbreaks of cases.
https://www.politico.eu/article/china-maintain-zero-covid-po...
https://www.politico.eu/article/china-maintain-zero-covid-po...
You need to be vaccinated to travel to many places still, and given how many people are opposed to vaccinations, their passport doesn't have the power it used to.
There's a patchwork of masking policies, which I've recently read are applied as arbitrarily as "you must apply your mask mid-flight when the airplane crosses over the international border of your destination to adhere to local covid policy" (this was for a large country in Asia).
Even in California there's still Covid Opening Instruction sheets pasted to all the doors. I even saw a new "please maintain 6 feet distance from others" sign in the grocery store today. It feels this modern parallel to abandoned soviet theme parks. Weird covid-era policies just there lurking from some eerie event in the past.
There's a patchwork of masking policies, which I've recently read are applied as arbitrarily as "you must apply your mask mid-flight when the airplane crosses over the international border of your destination to adhere to local covid policy" (this was for a large country in Asia).
Even in California there's still Covid Opening Instruction sheets pasted to all the doors. I even saw a new "please maintain 6 feet distance from others" sign in the grocery store today. It feels this modern parallel to abandoned soviet theme parks. Weird covid-era policies just there lurking from some eerie event in the past.
Here in Germany people still freak out about it, you still need masks on public transport for example. You had to wear them during air travel as well, at least up until around a month ago when someone leaked a photo of government officials maskless in an airplane so this rule is no longer enforced. :-))
With a mask mandate for public transport as the only mass-wide measure, which is not even followed nor enforced too much, I strongly disagree with your wording, that people freak out about it. (Not even arguing about the pro and cons of this measure, but the benefits of it are actually quite evident).
Also your claim that rules are not enforced because of a "leaked photo of a government official" lacks any reasoning and evidence.
Also your claim that rules are not enforced because of a "leaked photo of a government official" lacks any reasoning and evidence.
Yeah I mean just imagine the horror if you allowed people to take a train without a mask. It would be like literally all the other countries in the EU. Isn't that horrific? I can't even imagine it. Thank God for the mask mandates, the benefits are evident!
Oh and the fact that airplane mask mandates were abandoned after over 2 years, just days after Scholz got his photo leaked? Total coincidence. Yup. Unsubstantiated. https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/ma...
Oh and the fact that airplane mask mandates were abandoned after over 2 years, just days after Scholz got his photo leaked? Total coincidence. Yup. Unsubstantiated. https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/ma...
The tone of your comment as well as the logic of your argument is so personal and unobjective, my interest in answering is very low.
Nobody was talking about horror. This is a very unobtrusive measure that is proven to be effective - not only against covid - that also protects vulnerable people that use public infrastructure. The benefit of masks is so evident, I don't even want to point to singular sources, so here you can see an overview: https://scholar.google.de/scholar?q=masks+covid .
And to your second point, the logic of drawing conclusions from correlations is simply conspiracy level, no more.
Nobody was talking about horror. This is a very unobtrusive measure that is proven to be effective - not only against covid - that also protects vulnerable people that use public infrastructure. The benefit of masks is so evident, I don't even want to point to singular sources, so here you can see an overview: https://scholar.google.de/scholar?q=masks+covid .
And to your second point, the logic of drawing conclusions from correlations is simply conspiracy level, no more.
Here in Germany people still freak out about it
I'm in the United States and we still have people testing positive where I work. Unfortunately, the US handled COVID rather poorly and it's had lasting consequences for those who work in the country.
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The so called "zero-covid policy" in China has already failed, in practice, though the party would never admit their failure. Now they identify thousands of new cases daily in almost all states.
A lot of tragedies happened during massive, brutal lockdown across the whole country. People are not getting paid, facing mental health difficulties, even food shortages when they are forced to stay at home. No COVID deaths, but a lot deceased. Chinese state media will not cover these. It's somewhat saddening that people get to know all these only when Apple cannot supply enough iPhones.
A lot of tragedies happened during massive, brutal lockdown across the whole country. People are not getting paid, facing mental health difficulties, even food shortages when they are forced to stay at home. No COVID deaths, but a lot deceased. Chinese state media will not cover these. It's somewhat saddening that people get to know all these only when Apple cannot supply enough iPhones.
most of the coverage is meant to drive hysteria about the looming iPhone shortage, there’s little care for the covid situation on the ground in China contributing to the problem.
Apple stories get clicks, but there will be virtually no research on how China’s zero covid policy is the root cause, as it will be deemed “negative sentiment” which will get less CPM, or their content may even get demonetized. Modern “tech news” is a joke.
Apple stories get clicks, but there will be virtually no research on how China’s zero covid policy is the root cause, as it will be deemed “negative sentiment” which will get less CPM, or their content may even get demonetized. Modern “tech news” is a joke.
90% of which are asymptomatic as of today (569 symptomatic over 5643 cases).
And percentage is most likely under-estimated as they're more likely to miss more asymptomatic cases than symptomatic cases.
And percentage is most likely under-estimated as they're more likely to miss more asymptomatic cases than symptomatic cases.
Xi's obsession with "zero-covid" will continue to lead to things like this, and will seriously wreck their attractiveness as a manufacturing hub for the world over time.
I'm curious how many deaths would be acceptable to you, if you were the leader? China would probably see tens of millions of deaths minimum if they had the laize-faire approach some western nations have taken.
That being said it's not really clear what their exit plan is for zero-covid, as it cannot be sustained indefinitely.
That being said it's not really clear what their exit plan is for zero-covid, as it cannot be sustained indefinitely.
Every minute 120 people die on Earth. What is your acceptable limit? Sweden took relaxed approach to covid and had slight bump in excess deaths, less than US with lockdowns.
https://bioethics.georgetown.edu/2016/04/death-rate-is-120-p...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-...
https://bioethics.georgetown.edu/2016/04/death-rate-is-120-p...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-...
The western lockdowns were a manmade disaster. I look forward to history's harsh judgement on this.
Not sure what the death rate has to do with anything in the context of zero Covid. Are you implying the deaths are ok? Personally I think we should lower the number.
Or is the idea that since people are going to die anyways there’s no need to try to save them?
Or is the idea that since people are going to die anyways there’s no need to try to save them?
It's an optimization problem. You want to minimize the number of deaths AND minimize the impact on the economy.
Let's say if you shut down the entire economy, you're able to save exactly 1 life. Is this a worthwhile tradeoff? Probably not.
Now the question becomes, where do we draw the line on the number of "acceptable" deaths and the acceptable impact on the economy.
Let's say if you shut down the entire economy, you're able to save exactly 1 life. Is this a worthwhile tradeoff? Probably not.
Now the question becomes, where do we draw the line on the number of "acceptable" deaths and the acceptable impact on the economy.
Some people care more about people dying than the economy, as China clearly is showing.
The CCP doesn’t care about people dying. If it did you wouldn’t have stories of people starving to death, suicide, 3 years old suffocating, children being separated from families, animals beaten to death, etc.
What it cares about is saving face and how it appears on the world stage.
What it cares about is saving face and how it appears on the world stage.
Though I won’t disagree that there is a political element to it, I do believe China wants to minimize deaths (not exclusively).
Furthermore if you look at the number of physicians and hospitals, particularly in rural China, it’s clear they wouldn’t be able to effectively vaccinate nor treat the sick anyway.
Again, I do not believe zero Covid is a strategy that can be sustained, but I think for China it made sense for some period of time (though personally I think that time has passed).
Furthermore if you look at the number of physicians and hospitals, particularly in rural China, it’s clear they wouldn’t be able to effectively vaccinate nor treat the sick anyway.
Again, I do not believe zero Covid is a strategy that can be sustained, but I think for China it made sense for some period of time (though personally I think that time has passed).
I think alot of the people of China want to prevent/minimize deaths. There's a LOT of good people in China. During the Shanghai lockdowns when the governments were not giving out food and were locking people inside, there were people sneaking around delivering food to apartments. They do look out for each other.
But the CCP has a long history of just sweeping stuff under the rug unless it gets too hot to handle and does the bare minimum to make it go away.
I wish China was more open, if it was more willing to share information and accept help they may have a better vaccine, more people vaccinated, and more willing to drop zero covid policy while opening up knowing people will get sick but hospitals wont be overrun.
Here in Taiwan people are more or less going back to business as usual, everyone is vaccinated and while there's alot of covid cases now, hospitals are not overrun.
But the CCP has a long history of just sweeping stuff under the rug unless it gets too hot to handle and does the bare minimum to make it go away.
I wish China was more open, if it was more willing to share information and accept help they may have a better vaccine, more people vaccinated, and more willing to drop zero covid policy while opening up knowing people will get sick but hospitals wont be overrun.
Here in Taiwan people are more or less going back to business as usual, everyone is vaccinated and while there's alot of covid cases now, hospitals are not overrun.
What do you think an economy is? Its the amount if human production. Its mostly used on things people want and a good portion is used to make people's lives longer, healthier or happier. An economic downturn kills tens of thousands.
> An economic downturn kills tens of thousands
the economic consequences of covid interventions will lead to many more deaths, easily hundreds of thousands if not millions since globally the most vulnerable depends on other countries for resources, etc
the economic consequences of covid interventions will lead to many more deaths, easily hundreds of thousands if not millions since globally the most vulnerable depends on other countries for resources, etc
When the economy dies, so do people. Job losses lead to excess deaths associated with substance abuse and suicide, with knock-on effects.
That dictator is on a bender consolidating power, economy be damned. Even before COVID-19.
If that were true then the Chinese government would have approved the vastly superior mRNA vaccines by now.
I am saying people are mortal and there will be as many people dying as being born. You can lower number of deaths only by lowering number of births.
We're talking about deaths from disease, not deaths period, so again not sure how does has to do with anything. Should we stop medicine because people will die anyway?
[deleted]
It's about QALYs, not deaths. Lockdowns have a severe effect on QALYs, particularly mental health, to the point where if you're continuing lockdowns for years you're losing more QALYs to the lockdowns than the COVID.
To maybe prime the intuition pump, imagine a society that prohibits non-household interaction for 80 years. Do they save any lives? Nope, everyone dies in the end, aging is a thing. Is this place sufficiently worse to live in that 99% of people would rather lose a year of life than accept it? Yep.
Note that the direct shortening due to unvaccinated COVID is a few months.
To maybe prime the intuition pump, imagine a society that prohibits non-household interaction for 80 years. Do they save any lives? Nope, everyone dies in the end, aging is a thing. Is this place sufficiently worse to live in that 99% of people would rather lose a year of life than accept it? Yep.
Note that the direct shortening due to unvaccinated COVID is a few months.
The current variants are so much milder than, say, Delta, that I would think now is as good as time as any to significantly relax the lockdown requirements and let people deal with the illness the way they would anything else of similar severity.
We've gone through this though in the west already. Vaccines + milder strains. I would say that in Canada over the last 6 months or so some very large % of the population got Covid ( >50% ?) but because of vaccination and immunity the number of deaths was smaller than it's been in the early stages of the pandemic with severe restrictions (since no vaccines, less effective treatment options, original strain and Delta were a lot more severe).
Either China is dealing with another strain which doesn't seem super likely or their strategy defies logic. Maybe it's a way of suppressing political dissent. Who knows.
Either China is dealing with another strain which doesn't seem super likely or their strategy defies logic. Maybe it's a way of suppressing political dissent. Who knows.
If China had the same Covid death rate as Canada, this would result in millions of Chinese deaths and even more disabled due to long Covid. Why does pursuing their strategy, that has worked extremely well for them so far, “defy logic”? Why are you reaching for a political dissent explanation when avoiding mass death and disability is a far more obvious and logical explanation?
Because it's unsustainable.
You need to look at the current death rate when comparing with Canada. Which is fairly low. If you're actually looking at the numbers keep in mind the criteria is quite broad in terms of what counts as a Covid19 death (e.g. anyone that had a positive Covid test within 30 days of death even if the cause of death was not related). Nobody knows for sure what's the death rate right now.
That said you do need to have the population vaccinated with a good vaccine. So I do agree China could fare worse than Canada.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Canada pretty ended all and any measures at this point in time. There's a range of responses between lock down an entire city for one case and no restrictions at all.
Another piece of supporting evidence: "Excess mortality fell nationally from the end of February and through the spring of 2022
From the end of February and through the spring of 2022, the weekly number of deaths in Canada fell generally within the range of what was expected had there been no pandemic. This same trend was observed in Ontario and Quebec, despite COVID-19 deaths in Quebec remaining high."
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220908/dq220...
But... If your point is that Canada got here by taking a fairly large number of deaths, ~47k (+/-) for a population of 38M and China avoided most of that (assuming we can trust their data, questionable) ... then I'll concede you have some point, but still - unsustainable. A lot of Canada's deaths happened before we had vaccines and presumably with a higher % amongst unvaccinated populations after.
You need to look at the current death rate when comparing with Canada. Which is fairly low. If you're actually looking at the numbers keep in mind the criteria is quite broad in terms of what counts as a Covid19 death (e.g. anyone that had a positive Covid test within 30 days of death even if the cause of death was not related). Nobody knows for sure what's the death rate right now.
That said you do need to have the population vaccinated with a good vaccine. So I do agree China could fare worse than Canada.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Canada pretty ended all and any measures at this point in time. There's a range of responses between lock down an entire city for one case and no restrictions at all.
Another piece of supporting evidence: "Excess mortality fell nationally from the end of February and through the spring of 2022
From the end of February and through the spring of 2022, the weekly number of deaths in Canada fell generally within the range of what was expected had there been no pandemic. This same trend was observed in Ontario and Quebec, despite COVID-19 deaths in Quebec remaining high."
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220908/dq220...
But... If your point is that Canada got here by taking a fairly large number of deaths, ~47k (+/-) for a population of 38M and China avoided most of that (assuming we can trust their data, questionable) ... then I'll concede you have some point, but still - unsustainable. A lot of Canada's deaths happened before we had vaccines and presumably with a higher % amongst unvaccinated populations after.
I think it was reasonable before vaccines existed and when we thought there was a chance of wiping COVID out. But it's endemic now and vaccines are readily available.
In a vaccinated population, are you still saving tens of millions of lives? And what's the cost of locking people down? Here in the US lockdowns were much less thorough and I think we'll still be paying the price for decades wrt mental health + child development.
In a vaccinated population, are you still saving tens of millions of lives? And what's the cost of locking people down? Here in the US lockdowns were much less thorough and I think we'll still be paying the price for decades wrt mental health + child development.
Zero Covid is causing suffering and clear economic damage in itself which will also affect tens of millions of people. We've also seen no scientific evidence it works. There is clearly still covid circulating in China.
What would've been sensible for Xi is talking to and sharing information with the rest of the world and buying vaccines that work as well as those deployed in other countries.
Also, had he been more transparent about the origins of covid in the first place, we might all be ahead by now.
What would've been sensible for Xi is talking to and sharing information with the rest of the world and buying vaccines that work as well as those deployed in other countries.
Also, had he been more transparent about the origins of covid in the first place, we might all be ahead by now.
It made sense to lock everything down when we did not have an effective vaccine. Now we do. Why is Xi forcing lock downs instead of vaccinating people? Covid is endemic now just like flu or cold. It's never going away. His strategy just doesn't make sense anymore.
>if they had the laize-faire approach some western nations have taken.
Seems like a strawman to suggest that ending zero covid must mean going hands-off like "some western nations".
Also, "tens of millions" sounds like a lot, until you realize they have more than a billion in population.
Seems like a strawman to suggest that ending zero covid must mean going hands-off like "some western nations".
Also, "tens of millions" sounds like a lot, until you realize they have more than a billion in population.
So what would you do then?
rl3(3)
There is no way to do the experiment in an alternative universe, so everyone's opinion is equally valid. But nothing is permanent - covid or no-covid, and so no country will remain the worlds manufacturing hub forever.
Puzzling that this is downvoted
[deleted]
According to WHO, China's Sinopharm COVID vaccine has "not yet been evaluated in the context of circulation of widespread variants of concern".
So maybe they don't have a choice and that letting COVID run through whilst everyone could be effectively unvaccinated would quickly overwhelm their health care system and lead to mass death.
Xi very much cares about political stability and it would be pretty toxic if China has all of these troubles whilst the rest of the world has moved on.
So maybe they don't have a choice and that letting COVID run through whilst everyone could be effectively unvaccinated would quickly overwhelm their health care system and lead to mass death.
Xi very much cares about political stability and it would be pretty toxic if China has all of these troubles whilst the rest of the world has moved on.
China could have bought vaccines from other makers. Sinopharm wasn't very effective to begin with ( https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-sin... has it at 79% compared to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines starting out in the mid 90% range).
... and then you get a visitor to Shanghai Disney testing positive and https://youtu.be/yioG7mK01U0
Realizing that I am delving into speculation, this sounds more like the refinement of establishing a police state where one can use "someone you came in contact with tested positive for Covid" and shutting down large segments of a city and sending people to government quarantine camps than a desire for political stability.
... and then you get a visitor to Shanghai Disney testing positive and https://youtu.be/yioG7mK01U0
Realizing that I am delving into speculation, this sounds more like the refinement of establishing a police state where one can use "someone you came in contact with tested positive for Covid" and shutting down large segments of a city and sending people to government quarantine camps than a desire for political stability.
Never interrupt your enemy while they are in the middle of making a mistake.
It is Xi's mistake, but 1.4bn people suffer the consequences. Perhaps more.
How hard for a trillion dollar company to build their own infrastructure in the U.S. and do it relatively cost effective?
As hard as it would be for China to build their own Silicon Valley and put Apple, Google and Microsoft out of business. People think that Chinese manufacturing is simply a bunch of low paid workers in factories performing repetitive tasks, and the whole thing could be easily replicated in the US if not for labor costs. In reality there is an entire ecosystem of complex supply chains, very high skilled workers and the most advanced industrial machinery on the planet making it what it is. We simply do not have the knowledge or IP to run these kinds of manufacturing operations at scale in the US, regardless of cost.
We recently placed an order for custom-built LiFePo4 batteries with various voltage and Ah ratings, including custom branding. For an entire order of 200 batteries, they assembled, packed, and shipped within 4 days.
A similar order would have taken about a month from Germany, at about twice the cost. Most of the US manufactures don't even take custom orders at our small scale.
A similar order would have taken about a month from Germany, at about twice the cost. Most of the US manufactures don't even take custom orders at our small scale.
We used to build a lot of stuff (and I'm sure we still do) in the west. The problem is costs. The workaround is automation (see Tesla e.g.).
I'm pretty sure that with a large enough investment Apple could make phones in the US for cheaper than they do in China (including the entire supply chain). The problem is big public companies live quarter to quarter.
There's definitely knowledge and IP to do this. I worked for a company that moved some manufacturing to China about 15 years ago. Everything about how to build the thing came from our engineers including redesigns based on materials/components that were more readily available in China. It would be no problem (but wouldn't make economic sense) to move production back here (Canada in this case) just as fast as it was moved to China (years ;) ).
I'm pretty sure that with a large enough investment Apple could make phones in the US for cheaper than they do in China (including the entire supply chain). The problem is big public companies live quarter to quarter.
There's definitely knowledge and IP to do this. I worked for a company that moved some manufacturing to China about 15 years ago. Everything about how to build the thing came from our engineers including redesigns based on materials/components that were more readily available in China. It would be no problem (but wouldn't make economic sense) to move production back here (Canada in this case) just as fast as it was moved to China (years ;) ).
It's not just about the depth (of which the Chinese has plenty) but also scale, cost of transport of inputs (which are all either made in Shenzhen already or available in quantity and stocked close by) access to skilled labor in the quantities needed, services to handle any layer of the chain at arms reach - need a board respun because components have dried up? Sure you can get guys in the US to do it but your board or assembly partner in Shenzhen can also just get it handled for you, pay the right amount of money and it can be done essentially tomorrow. There is also proximity to packaging and larger manufacturing, want to get a custom injection molded case or even some fancy CNC milled one? Yeah you can get that too, probably within 30-40mins by truck of where your boards are being made and your final assembly partner also.
I guess what I am getting at is that it's the only place on earth with such centralized infrastructure for making nearly anything, nothing is hard, nothing is far away, nothing is "not stocked here", it just makes for a much more convenient way to build products.
My experience "being there" was that I don't think you can replicate it easily. It has its own vibe, culture and way of Just Getting Shit Done that just feels unique.
I guess what I am getting at is that it's the only place on earth with such centralized infrastructure for making nearly anything, nothing is hard, nothing is far away, nothing is "not stocked here", it just makes for a much more convenient way to build products.
My experience "being there" was that I don't think you can replicate it easily. It has its own vibe, culture and way of Just Getting Shit Done that just feels unique.
These capabilities (not at that scale but still) were more common in more places in the 90's. Things like computers, phones, TVs, audio equipment, appliances, cars etc. etc. were not made in China back then. Definitely somewhat smaller scale though, there's a lot more consumers around these days.
Even today- I'm not in a real tech hub by any means but there are many injection molding places within a drive distance from me. There are also plenty of machine shops with CNCs. In the industrial area near where I live there are some major car parts manufacturers, they build yachts and more. Again, this isn't a major tech hub but you can probably make anything here, it's just gonna be very expensive.
I've heard a lot about Chinese manufacturing and I do get what you're saying. Yes it's pretty amazing today (which isn't just because of China's entrepreneurs, it's also western entrepreneurs helping create this ecosystem). But I think it's not impossible to replicate. It wouldn't be the same, we can move things relatively easily in North America, we don't need one dense city that does everything with workers living in factories. But we do need a lot more automation to replace humans.
I've never seen manufacturing in China in person but I have seen large scale manufacturing in Taiwan. A lot of that was designed/built by western companies.
In terms of costs ofcourse they're lower when you pay people less, when the living conditions are worse, when there's no worker protection, environmental or health and safety requirements...
While I'm rambling ;) another thing that we need to consider is just making better quality goods that last longer. Then "cheap" is less of a factor.
Even today- I'm not in a real tech hub by any means but there are many injection molding places within a drive distance from me. There are also plenty of machine shops with CNCs. In the industrial area near where I live there are some major car parts manufacturers, they build yachts and more. Again, this isn't a major tech hub but you can probably make anything here, it's just gonna be very expensive.
I've heard a lot about Chinese manufacturing and I do get what you're saying. Yes it's pretty amazing today (which isn't just because of China's entrepreneurs, it's also western entrepreneurs helping create this ecosystem). But I think it's not impossible to replicate. It wouldn't be the same, we can move things relatively easily in North America, we don't need one dense city that does everything with workers living in factories. But we do need a lot more automation to replace humans.
I've never seen manufacturing in China in person but I have seen large scale manufacturing in Taiwan. A lot of that was designed/built by western companies.
In terms of costs ofcourse they're lower when you pay people less, when the living conditions are worse, when there's no worker protection, environmental or health and safety requirements...
While I'm rambling ;) another thing that we need to consider is just making better quality goods that last longer. Then "cheap" is less of a factor.
> I'm not in a real tech hub by any means but there are many injection molding places within a drive distance from me
No matter where you live it almost certainly doesn't have anywhere close to the same density and variety of manufacturing hubs in China!
There's also the culture aspect, arguably more important. It can't be overstated. People get shit done in the order of minutes. We are talking as low as 30 minutes to go from factory to factory. There's a hustle and "get shit done" culture that simply isn't replicated in the West.
It's like asking, why does Silicon Valley exist in the Bay Area? Why can't it exist in Kansas, which also has people? - There's a unique culture and concentration of knowledge in the Bay Area. Offices for big tech companies are within minutes of each other, etc.
No matter where you live it almost certainly doesn't have anywhere close to the same density and variety of manufacturing hubs in China!
There's also the culture aspect, arguably more important. It can't be overstated. People get shit done in the order of minutes. We are talking as low as 30 minutes to go from factory to factory. There's a hustle and "get shit done" culture that simply isn't replicated in the West.
It's like asking, why does Silicon Valley exist in the Bay Area? Why can't it exist in Kansas, which also has people? - There's a unique culture and concentration of knowledge in the Bay Area. Offices for big tech companies are within minutes of each other, etc.
I think you are drastically underestimating both the density and the scale and overestimating how much "Westerners" are propping up or otherwise essential for it's function, sure there are lots of Westerner entrepreneurs there (myself included at one point) but the reality is both Mainland and HK entrepreneurs not only drastically outnumber us but they were also the ones kicking most of the home runs and might I say the braver more creative ones (contrary to Western harbored stereotypes).
I recommend you go and see for yourself. It's really something that is very difficult to comprehend until you see it in person.
I recommend you go and see for yourself. It's really something that is very difficult to comprehend until you see it in person.
>The workaround is automation (see Tesla e.g.).
The irony of automation [1]: "the more sophisticated we make that automation, the more we become dependent on a highly skilled human operator"
A single company can move back but if all companies leave China, how do they get the skilled operators?
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33476157
The irony of automation [1]: "the more sophisticated we make that automation, the more we become dependent on a highly skilled human operator"
A single company can move back but if all companies leave China, how do they get the skilled operators?
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33476157
> The problem is big public companies live quarter to quarter.
I think that's a bit of a myth. Apple should (and probably does) have the longterm view on this, I'd hope. And I'm pretty sure proper accounting would present the requisite massive investments in a light that shareholders do not disapprove of.
> I'm pretty sure that with a large enough investment Apple could make phones in the US for cheaper than they do in China (including the entire supply chain).
That I am not so sure. The infrastructure and resources available in China are tremendous.
I think that's a bit of a myth. Apple should (and probably does) have the longterm view on this, I'd hope. And I'm pretty sure proper accounting would present the requisite massive investments in a light that shareholders do not disapprove of.
> I'm pretty sure that with a large enough investment Apple could make phones in the US for cheaper than they do in China (including the entire supply chain).
That I am not so sure. The infrastructure and resources available in China are tremendous.
Then why are they creating new factory for iphone in India and not in US?
What would it take to build a city that mirrors the auto manufacturing capabilities of Detroit in its classic car period?
Note that this isn't Ford, or GM that did it.. but rather Ford and GM and hundreds of smaller companies that supplied the raw materials to a company to make the parts that were used by companies that supplied the parts to the auto makers.
And so, yes, you could - but its not something that one company can do - or for that mater even has the competency to do for the same reason that Ford doesn't run steel mills.
Note that this isn't Ford, or GM that did it.. but rather Ford and GM and hundreds of smaller companies that supplied the raw materials to a company to make the parts that were used by companies that supplied the parts to the auto makers.
And so, yes, you could - but its not something that one company can do - or for that mater even has the competency to do for the same reason that Ford doesn't run steel mills.
Obviously the logistics and energy infrastructure is here. Cheap labor force, hard to compete with a lot of the world there, but let’s say maybe.
The hard problem is economically rerouting the supply chain for the diverse set of parts and materials that go into these devices.
The challenge isn’t just building a factory.
The hard problem is economically rerouting the supply chain for the diverse set of parts and materials that go into these devices.
The challenge isn’t just building a factory.
Obviously fairly hard. Suspect the "cost effective" bit is a big part of it.
I actually think the scale is the issue. It is just SO many phones and then subsequently, SO many parts. Without dropping any velocity in their ability to ship phones rebuilding a massive setup like what they have access to in China is not even limited by the money (probably by the technical know how)
Automotive bill of materials are far more extensive and requirement heavy (physical space/warehousing, subassembly integration and part sequencing, double checking firmware/electronic systems as the vehicle comes down the line) compared to consumer electronics.
Yes, TSMC 4nm is more complex from an electronics standpoint. But from a supply chain process standpoint, automotive is way more complex.
All of the best consumer electronic manufacturing sequencing and tooling is in China though, hence the problem we have today.
Tim Cook is a supply chain guy though, so I'm curious how he will approach and solve this problem.
Yes, TSMC 4nm is more complex from an electronics standpoint. But from a supply chain process standpoint, automotive is way more complex.
All of the best consumer electronic manufacturing sequencing and tooling is in China though, hence the problem we have today.
Tim Cook is a supply chain guy though, so I'm curious how he will approach and solve this problem.
There are just not enough unemployed, qualified people in the U.S. to staff a similar operation. Unless Apple radically improved automation, so that far fewer humans were needed, it would be impossible.
Only other option would be a huge surge of immigration into the U.S. and I don’t think even $1 trillion can buy that kind of policy shift.
Only other option would be a huge surge of immigration into the U.S. and I don’t think even $1 trillion can buy that kind of policy shift.
2,2 trillion dollar company to be precise
3 or 4 weeks ago I was trying very hard to buy an iPhone 14 pro (purple no less) and it was down to trying to order for pickup every morning at ~6am. I got lucky one day, so did not have to wait for 6 weeks. I find it interesting that Apple is addressing this directly.
As someone who doesn't follow phones at all it's just so weird to me to see it up to 14 already.
I think I have a few 4s from years ago someone threw out, I guess useless now and should be discarded before battery burns apartment down, imagine how many millions of other dead devices out there.
Are they going to just keep rolling, someday "iphone 37" like firefox/chrome versions?
Meanwhile still on same i5 PC build from 2012
I think I have a few 4s from years ago someone threw out, I guess useless now and should be discarded before battery burns apartment down, imagine how many millions of other dead devices out there.
Are they going to just keep rolling, someday "iphone 37" like firefox/chrome versions?
Meanwhile still on same i5 PC build from 2012
every year a new one. Does that surprise you?
Hopefully they will move manufacturing to europe and north america. Relying on dictatorships or corrupt countries doesnt help much on the long term.
I honestly doubt that anything can help much, really. The less you have valuable trade ties with other nations regardless of their political system, the more everyone has an incentive to go to war with each other.
India and Vietnam I think
One is another communist regime and the other has issues with even basic electricity and running water.
In god we trust, Others bring data - Deming.
Unless you are living under a rock, here are some dashboards you will find interesting
https://cea.nic.in/dashboard/?lang=en https://npp.gov.in/dashBoard/cp-map-dashboard
and water
https://ejalshakti.gov.in/jjmreport/JJMIndia.aspx
No place is perfect unless you are living in Utopian LaLa land or one has drunk too much KoolAid. There are problems which are being addressed by state / central governments.
In my home state of Kerala, there is plenty of Water and decent Hydel plants for power.So even the argument that you place is only tangentially accurate.
Unless you are living under a rock, here are some dashboards you will find interesting
https://cea.nic.in/dashboard/?lang=en https://npp.gov.in/dashBoard/cp-map-dashboard
and water
https://ejalshakti.gov.in/jjmreport/JJMIndia.aspx
No place is perfect unless you are living in Utopian LaLa land or one has drunk too much KoolAid. There are problems which are being addressed by state / central governments.
In my home state of Kerala, there is plenty of Water and decent Hydel plants for power.So even the argument that you place is only tangentially accurate.
What's powering their IT infra a nd trains then?
The context for this (which Apple of course wants to avoid shining too much light on) is this: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinese-cities-brace-wav...
A combination of isolation of the manufacturing site, lockdown of the surrounding region, and some number of workers gone.
A combination of isolation of the manufacturing site, lockdown of the surrounding region, and some number of workers gone.
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I mean, bestbuy has had plenty in stock around here so demand I’d say hasn’t been all that high. I thought about upgrading from the 13 pro before realizing how dumb that’d be.
Last month, I was pleasantly surprised that Apple was doing a next-day delivery of the new iPhones. Now, it has gone back to almost a month delay here in India.
I went to buy an iPhone 14 Pro yesterday in the Bay Area from the local Apple Stores and the wait time is a month everywhere around here.
Strange, the carrier versions are showing as in stock at retailers (Best Buy near here) but the unlocked is unavailable.
Strange.
Strange.
What is the real status of covid in China? Is this just political thing or is it new strain? Are hospitals there overloaded? Government working off of the data? For rest of the world, covid seems to be just history.
> For rest of the world, covid seems to be just history.
Is that really true? Or do you mean endemic?
I guess fewer people I know are dying...
Is that really true? Or do you mean endemic?
I guess fewer people I know are dying...
I wonder if China knows that Covid can be dormant in animals and is never going away.
The fact that they are still insisting on zero-covid policy is weird and kinda sus.
I hope there’s stock for when I head back to the states to buy one in February.
you could buy one on Ebay today
iPhone 14 Pro Max is $2,400 on eBay. I wonder if any dumbass is buying it.
There's a certain level of wealth where intelligence doesn't come into play. If a multi-millionaire wants their brand new toy right now, whether it's $2,400 or $1,400 or $4,000 is irrelevant.
I saw brand new ones for $1,400 not sure what the MSRP is though....
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So 2 years after inventing excellent COVID vaccines, why aren't they available world-wide? (Honest question)
Cost? Logistics? Patents? Willpower?
Cost? Logistics? Patents? Willpower?
Some world leaders have fragile egos and can't bear to admit the American vaccines worked out fine.
What does China know about COVID-19 that the rest of us do not?
Why put in place such a severe policy of forced internment, in response to very few cases, when cheap and plentiful vaccines are available?
(Never mind that mRNA vaccines have never been approved for use in China, which is mind-boggling, given that they're proven to be safe and effective for preventing serious illness or death from COVID-19.)
Why put in place such a severe policy of forced internment, in response to very few cases, when cheap and plentiful vaccines are available?
(Never mind that mRNA vaccines have never been approved for use in China, which is mind-boggling, given that they're proven to be safe and effective for preventing serious illness or death from COVID-19.)
In my opinion the reason is political, that is, I think zero-covid policy is a form of citizen control to prevent protests/insurrection against the accumulation of power by Xi, but also against the economic crumbling surrounding the collapse of their real estate market.
This episode of an excellent podcast about Xi covers the Covid response really well
https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2022/09/28/8-the-great-he...
https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2022/09/28/8-the-great-he...
As someone who doesn't have the time or patience to listen to a 42m podcast, is there a summary or transcript available somewhere?
What a fantastic series. I know what I’m listening to now. Thanks!
If you didn’t have any faith in the mechanisms you had to mitigate COVID-19 pharmaceutically, you would act in much the same manner.
Sinovac may just not be that good over time, or maybe it’s just a pride thing in which we have a political leader staking heroic, superhuman claims on a Zero-COVID strategy.
Sinovac may just not be that good over time, or maybe it’s just a pride thing in which we have a political leader staking heroic, superhuman claims on a Zero-COVID strategy.
I mean, Sweden was going free-for-all before any vaccines even existed and seemed to do OK.
Many western countries adopted gratuitously strict lockdown policies that did more harm than good. China just took it a little further than most.
I think there are many factors. First, the Chinese healthcare system is much smaller than western healthcare systems. Combine that with a much larger population and a pandemic and you end up in a bad situation really fast. Secondly, they’ve refused the mRNA vaccines, which are significantly more effective than their home grown vaccine. Third, and possibly most importantly, Xi et al both inflated the danger of Covid in their communications to the public, and made zero Covid a point of national and personal pride for Xi. He would lose face if they turned back now.
I love how the length of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page is longer than the length of the press release.
Same, hah I was expecting it to have something like "warning this press release is known to cause cancer in the state of California" in its kitchen sink of legalese warnings.
I love how the length of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page is longer than the length of the press release.
I was a little sad that the history boilerplate at the end starts off talking about the Macintosh in 1984, as if the Apple ][ never existed.
I was a little sad that the history boilerplate at the end starts off talking about the Macintosh in 1984, as if the Apple ][ never existed.
looks like standard verbiage they used for press release that contain language financials..
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/10/apple-reports-fourth-...
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/10/apple-reports-fourth-...
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While I’m sure everything in this PR is true, I’m also gonna take a moment to read between the lines. Apple will/should leverage this relatively unprecedented/innocuous statement to accelerate diversity in their supply chain.
With the US squeezing China with sanctions it is only a matter of time before China retaliates against Apple. Politically, reducing pressure on China in the US is not tenable in this climate. We’re in a one way ratchet and Apple needs to diversify away from China as quickly as possible. Covid lockdowns in China ultimately provide a fantastic opportunity and official/formal face saving measure for Apple (and all other US manufacturers) to establish alternate supply chains without openly antagonizing China.
With the US squeezing China with sanctions it is only a matter of time before China retaliates against Apple. Politically, reducing pressure on China in the US is not tenable in this climate. We’re in a one way ratchet and Apple needs to diversify away from China as quickly as possible. Covid lockdowns in China ultimately provide a fantastic opportunity and official/formal face saving measure for Apple (and all other US manufacturers) to establish alternate supply chains without openly antagonizing China.
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Yet, somehow, you can buy iPhone 14 Pro in Russia, of all places, where Apple has officially suspended all sales, and it'll be delivered to you in an hour. No wait time at all.
Yes until it gets remotely locked as part of a future sanctions package
The US Government wants average Russians and dissidents to be able to access foreign media through the Internet. Bricking electronics would be counterproductive.
Doubt Apple will let that happen. That will look very bad security wise.
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Foxcoon has been modern slavery for long[1], in case anyone doesn't know. Workers are suffering from sexual harrasment as well as poor working conditions. It seems like that someone assumed this started only after the covid-zero thing, but it's actually not. (though this has definitely made the workers' lives worse)
That's how the "advantage of low labor cost" works.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
That's how the "advantage of low labor cost" works.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
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COVID-19 restrictions, jesus. What is this 2020?
This is the appropriate response. It's more about China saving face and their attempt to maintain control than actual Covid-19 prevention, although there is some of that too.
They had a choice to accept Pfizer and Moderna early on and chose not to. Now they're paying for it politically, socially, and epidemiologically.
They had a choice to accept Pfizer and Moderna early on and chose not to. Now they're paying for it politically, socially, and epidemiologically.
Iphone 14 isn't selling well in China. PR defense against low sales numbers.
Pray tell why you think this has anything to do with Chinese sales numbers?
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Cook should be sacked. After a President openly hostile to trade with China, Covid and a crazy Zero Covid policy, now he’ll throw up his hands and say “who could have known?”
With a $100B in cash sloshing around overseas, he’s had 6 years to be a genius.
With a $100B in cash sloshing around overseas, he’s had 6 years to be a genius.
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pshirshov(3)
nemo44x(2)
don't sweat folks. Get a Pixel and you get better camera and don't miss much.
Thanks, but no. I own a Pixel 6 Pro as my second phone (for work), and I prefer not having to treat my phone like it is a (non-M1) laptop. I.e., constantly worry about having a way to charge it whenever I am out and about.
It isn't just my perception either, the reviews all pointed out the battery to be lacking. Meanwhile, I charge my iPhone about once every 2 days (or once a day before i go to sleep, in case I am using it very heavily on that particular day).
No idea what the whole "better camera" complaint is either. Pretty much every in-depth technical review (by blogs/people who actually have knowledge of photography and camera tech) of iPhone 14 Pro camera laud it as great, which my personal experience confirms.
It isn't just my perception either, the reviews all pointed out the battery to be lacking. Meanwhile, I charge my iPhone about once every 2 days (or once a day before i go to sleep, in case I am using it very heavily on that particular day).
No idea what the whole "better camera" complaint is either. Pretty much every in-depth technical review (by blogs/people who actually have knowledge of photography and camera tech) of iPhone 14 Pro camera laud it as great, which my personal experience confirms.
do me a favor. can you check how much you use your iphone vs android. It seems you use your work phone more than iphone. thats why its running out of battery most likely. also, i would prefer iphone over android for work because they have better enterprise compatibility. Android is always a mess with work profile in my experience.
also, w.r.t camera, DXOmark rated pixel 7 pro more than iphone 14 pro max. even latest macrumours review (check comments of that review) shows pixel is clear winner for example, go and take moon pictures with your 6 pro and iphone 14 pro. tell me which one has moon vs white blob.
also, w.r.t camera, DXOmark rated pixel 7 pro more than iphone 14 pro max. even latest macrumours review (check comments of that review) shows pixel is clear winner for example, go and take moon pictures with your 6 pro and iphone 14 pro. tell me which one has moon vs white blob.
> It seems you use your work phone more than iphone.
I pretty much don't at all, precisely for that reason. Just checked, and my average active screen time for the past 10 days was a tiny bit over 9hrs on iphone (because traveling, so i need it a lot for navigating around, coordinating stuff with other people, etc), and I was charging it before going to sleep (but it was not empty, it still had a decent amount of charge left). On my Pixel, back when i was using it, it was around 3hrs at the very most, and I would have to charge it midway through the day
If you are genuinely curious, please let me know. I can try using my Pixel as I would my iPhone tomorrow, and then report the results the day after that.
> go and take moon pictures with your 6 pro and iphone 14 pro. tell me which one has moon vs white blob.
Haven't tried that yet, but will do and report back along with the battery. Would heavy light pollution be a problem for taking moon pics? Because I am in theater district in Manhattan rn, and light pollution here is off the charts.
I pretty much don't at all, precisely for that reason. Just checked, and my average active screen time for the past 10 days was a tiny bit over 9hrs on iphone (because traveling, so i need it a lot for navigating around, coordinating stuff with other people, etc), and I was charging it before going to sleep (but it was not empty, it still had a decent amount of charge left). On my Pixel, back when i was using it, it was around 3hrs at the very most, and I would have to charge it midway through the day
If you are genuinely curious, please let me know. I can try using my Pixel as I would my iPhone tomorrow, and then report the results the day after that.
> go and take moon pictures with your 6 pro and iphone 14 pro. tell me which one has moon vs white blob.
Haven't tried that yet, but will do and report back along with the battery. Would heavy light pollution be a problem for taking moon pics? Because I am in theater district in Manhattan rn, and light pollution here is off the charts.
3 hours sounds like something is wrong. On my Pixel 7 Pro I currently have 5.5 hours of screen time with 40% battery left. Not as good as an iPhone, but certainly good enough to get through a day with charge remaining.
To clarify, my pixel wouldnt die after 3 hours. It would drop to around 50% or so, i would put it away, and it would die on its own by the end of the next day without me using it pretty much at all (outside of it sitting there and receiving notifications).
Taking moon photos needs special camera modes and doesn’t have much of anything to do with how good the general tuning is. The usual auto exposure algorithms don’t work on it.
I want to get a Pixel 7 Pro (sending from my Pixel 2XL) but no 5G support for the country I'm currently residing (Greece) is a bit of deal-breaker. Rooting is an option but I don't thing I want to go that way. (Has been doing it on my Nexus 5.)
It's the 1st time I'm considering a switch from Android to iOS.
It's the 1st time I'm considering a switch from Android to iOS.
Have you considered the Fairphone 4? I am in the US otherwise I'd probably have bought one already.
I will argue against this.... apple's camera ecosystem is more consistent that the Android cluster.
188 comments in and no mention of Peter Zeihan?
Someone here a while back was talking about how in the farming industry, "leaky" vaccines have been used for a long time. They mentioned that in the poultry industry that just resulted in viruses evolving to be fantastically virulent, which means that unvaccinated populations of chickens have viruses just rip through them at unbelievable speed. Note that this doesn't mean that the viruses are more dangerous, just that they're more evasive against that first line of immune defence and are harder to avoid.
What does this have to do with iPhones?
China can't keep up their zero-COVID policy forever. While they keep trying, COVID is slowly becoming more and more virulent overseas due to our use of leaky vaccines.
Either they give up now, and deal with the fast-but-maybe-manageable wave of infections, or they wait until it evolves to be so infectious that it becomes totally unmanageable.
They're stretching a rubber band further and further while repeatedly mumbling something about a "not letting go policy".
What does this have to do with iPhones?
China can't keep up their zero-COVID policy forever. While they keep trying, COVID is slowly becoming more and more virulent overseas due to our use of leaky vaccines.
Either they give up now, and deal with the fast-but-maybe-manageable wave of infections, or they wait until it evolves to be so infectious that it becomes totally unmanageable.
They're stretching a rubber band further and further while repeatedly mumbling something about a "not letting go policy".
China can keep covid policy for another 15 years. Xi is only 69 and previous China's dictator Mao lived till 82.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping
I mean that it literally won't matter what the official policy is. Eventually COVID will become so virulent that no amount of lockdowns will stop it spreading.
E.g.: by the time a case is detected and a lockdown enforced, it'll have spread too far to contain. Rinse and repeat and there will be "hotspots" everywhere, impossible to contain.
E.g.: by the time a case is detected and a lockdown enforced, it'll have spread too far to contain. Rinse and repeat and there will be "hotspots" everywhere, impossible to contain.
It is impossible to contain now and China's dictatorship doesn't care.
It can become even more virulent. Much more. To the point that containment becomes obviously futile. Right now, it is "working", for some definition of that word. Eventually there won't be any definition of "working" that will remain true.
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"Apple revolutionized personal technology with the introduction of the Macintosh in 1984. Today, Apple leads the world in innovation with iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, and Apple TV. Apple’s five software platforms — iOS, iPadOS, macOS, watchOS, and tvOS — provide seamless experiences across all Apple devices and empower people with breakthrough services including the App Store, Apple Music, Apple Pay, and iCloud. Apple’s more than 100,000 employees are dedicated to making the best products on earth, and to leaving the world better than we found it."
Sure maybe at one time, perhaps early 2000's. Apple you can thank samsung for all the success you've had over the years. lets be frank!
Sure maybe at one time, perhaps early 2000's. Apple you can thank samsung for all the success you've had over the years. lets be frank!