The Reddits(ycombinator.com)
ycombinator.com
The Reddits
https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/the-reddits
803 comments
Interesting, it has a del.icio.us scraper. I still don't understand why that site disappeared, it was great. By my recollection, Yahoo bought it and killed it.
I wish someone brought back a Delicious clone. I loved its naive Web 2.0 aesthetics.
I think it was a really nice service. Right now all similar ones I know of are unpleasant to use and get in your way.
It was really minimal and useful to find new things. One particular area where link sharing makes a lot of sense, yet existing services are not very nice, is academic papers.
I think it was a really nice service. Right now all similar ones I know of are unpleasant to use and get in your way.
It was really minimal and useful to find new things. One particular area where link sharing makes a lot of sense, yet existing services are not very nice, is academic papers.
I don’t really remember delicious, but what would the difference be from something like https://pinboard.in/popular/ ? I was under the impression that’s basically a clone. Was it just a different aesthetic?
Pinboard was a clone with a different business model: users actually paid for it.
Fast forward, and delicious died, only to be acquired by — you guessed it — Pinboard [1]. Because Pinboard was actually serving its paying customers, it just kept trucking along.
[1]: https://blog.pinboard.in/2017/06/pinboard_acquires_delicious...
Fast forward, and delicious died, only to be acquired by — you guessed it — Pinboard [1]. Because Pinboard was actually serving its paying customers, it just kept trucking along.
[1]: https://blog.pinboard.in/2017/06/pinboard_acquires_delicious...
delicious launched before Pinboard, IIRC. There were a number of such services.
try it out. del.icio.us
That's exactly what happened and made me hate Yahoo even more than I already had. The day delicious was shut down for good I lost something that I have never managed to replace. Sad times :(
It still exists.
I once asked a famous biscuit (cookie) factory nearby in a smallish city that never gives tours whether I could tour the factory just as a bucket list check off and never expected to get anywhere.
They said they don't do that and will never do that unfortunately.
A couple weeks later they auctioned off tickets to the factory tours as a "special event". I felt incredibly sour from that. I felt like a little more of humanity had eroded.
They said they don't do that and will never do that unfortunately.
A couple weeks later they auctioned off tickets to the factory tours as a "special event". I felt incredibly sour from that. I felt like a little more of humanity had eroded.
You wanted something from someone for free and then felt sour that they were going to charge for it?
Are you friends with these people? Why do they owe you anything
Are you friends with these people? Why do they owe you anything
I think the annoyance is that they weren't interested in giving tours until someone asked, and they figured out they could make a profit. Pretty reasonable to expect a ticket, even if it isn't free.
I guess the annoyance is they said never, changed their mind, and auction the ticket off.
If I were the factory owner, I would reserve a ticket for him and give a discounted price to thank for his idea.
If I were the factory owner, I would reserve a ticket for him and give a discounted price to thank for his idea.
Yeah I felt sour but I didn't really have any reason to in today's modern world. I shouldn't expect the human I talked with to actually care.
Depending on the trade secrets involved it could be a paranoid choice made in an area that rewards paranoia.
Maybe having somebody reach out for a tour was just red flaggy enough. I agree it’s weird and kind of crummy to then offer an auction up.
Maybe having somebody reach out for a tour was just red flaggy enough. I agree it’s weird and kind of crummy to then offer an auction up.
That's not why I felt sour. My original request even offered to pay for it.
Could you not participate in the auction?
I found out well after unfortunately. And tickets were sold pretty damn fast.
Auction? So, for charity?
Man A: "Hey B, here's a nice idea. Will you do it?"
Man B: "No. Fuck off."
Local News: "Man B wins the lottery after exploiting a free idea."
Yep, you can advocate everything is fine with this scenario. You could instead advocate for a different scenario. You know, when you talk to your kids. Or family. Or friends. Or neighbours. And they talk to their x/y/z/a/b/c. Or you could advocate for being an asshole to, what amounts to, a finite number of people. Like a pebble in the pond, causing ripples. Some are poison. Some are not. But you choose which it is.
Man B: "No. Fuck off."
Local News: "Man B wins the lottery after exploiting a free idea."
Yep, you can advocate everything is fine with this scenario. You could instead advocate for a different scenario. You know, when you talk to your kids. Or family. Or friends. Or neighbours. And they talk to their x/y/z/a/b/c. Or you could advocate for being an asshole to, what amounts to, a finite number of people. Like a pebble in the pond, causing ripples. Some are poison. Some are not. But you choose which it is.
I think the issue here is a form of main character syndrome. Where people over-value their ideas, feel entitled, and make up stories where everyone else is the asshole.
Man A thinks he is a genius, and man B never considered a tour. Man A assumes nobody else has ever asked, and they aren't the 10th person this week. Man A thinks the idea is a critical contribution, not having the knowledge, planning, giving the tour, or having a factory.
Man A thinks he is a genius, and man B never considered a tour. Man A assumes nobody else has ever asked, and they aren't the 10th person this week. Man A thinks the idea is a critical contribution, not having the knowledge, planning, giving the tour, or having a factory.
Yeah this is why I let my sour feelings go but still consider the interaction funny.
Why would I, a grown man, be let into a factory based on a bucket list idea out of nowhere? Even if it's something people would have gladly done in this corner of the world 20 years ago.
Why would they, a professional company, talk to me ever again even if I were the straw to break the camels back of "touring". haha
Why would I, a grown man, be let into a factory based on a bucket list idea out of nowhere? Even if it's something people would have gladly done in this corner of the world 20 years ago.
Why would they, a professional company, talk to me ever again even if I were the straw to break the camels back of "touring". haha
That’s the way the cookie crumbles.
Figured I'd share this since its comp info you don't normally see. A lot of people made a lot of money today. I got 150,000 options for Reddit very early after it was spun out. With today's price, that's $7.5M, but I didn't get all 4 years of vesting, the pay was below-average, and my money was tied up. During the same decade, the faangs were up 12x on average, but the pay was better, and my money would have been liquid. Reddit might not hold up for 6 months, either.
Thanks for sharing, always fascinating to see different lottery tickets.
Why didn't you take a deal with a secondary market buyer? Quid or SecFi or whatever
Regardless of what price they quote in their emails, I’ve heard that Quid will only loan you a quarter of the FMV of your shares, at 15% APR (deferred) — plus 5.5% of your shares outright, which increases annually.
It sounds like a horrible deal.
It sounds like a horrible deal.
100% of $0 is $0. Even 25% of $7.4m is $1.8m
Did you miss the key words of LOAN and 15% APR?
You should be able to get a non-recourse loan, i.e. where you never owe more than the stock is worth. That said, Reddit was one of the more secondary-unfriendly firms, if memory serves correctly, if you didn’t have Board or senior management connections.
it's a non-recourse loan though, so if Reddit didn't IPO and you can't pay, you don't owe money you don't have.
> Reddit the site (and now app) is such a fundamentally useful thing that it's almost unkillable.
Looking forward to see how true this is. The communities I used to frequent, have maybe 20% of the activity they used to, before the API fiasco, even though they're "back online". I also stopped using reddit on the phone after my chosen reddit client was closed down (which I'm grateful for, thanks reddit).
My reddit activity probably dropped way below half compared to before, as the communities I used to be in are now shells of their former glory.
Looking forward to see how true this is. The communities I used to frequent, have maybe 20% of the activity they used to, before the API fiasco, even though they're "back online". I also stopped using reddit on the phone after my chosen reddit client was closed down (which I'm grateful for, thanks reddit).
My reddit activity probably dropped way below half compared to before, as the communities I used to be in are now shells of their former glory.
I was very late to the Reddit party and created my first account a year or two ago.
I posted a little bit and then one day had a big red banner on the top telling me that my account was suspended for violating the TOS (my posts were on a puppetry subreddit about puppets and were very "normal" posts... how I could have violated the TOS was beyond me). I immediately appealed and the suspension was lifted (without any explanation as to what caused my account to be suspended in the first place). But even though my account is able to post and do everything a non-suspended account can, there's still that red banner at the top every time I access the website telling me my account was suspended and to check my inbox messages for instructions on how to appeal.
That user experience kind of killed any desire of mine to ever use Reddit again.
I posted a little bit and then one day had a big red banner on the top telling me that my account was suspended for violating the TOS (my posts were on a puppetry subreddit about puppets and were very "normal" posts... how I could have violated the TOS was beyond me). I immediately appealed and the suspension was lifted (without any explanation as to what caused my account to be suspended in the first place). But even though my account is able to post and do everything a non-suspended account can, there's still that red banner at the top every time I access the website telling me my account was suspended and to check my inbox messages for instructions on how to appeal.
That user experience kind of killed any desire of mine to ever use Reddit again.
I have a similarly buggy experience: My 13-year old account with zero history of problems (and incidentally 500k comment karma) was randomly shadowbanned. I used their appeal page, got a message apologizing and saying my appeal was granted...
... But it's still shadowbanned and everything I ever wrote over those years is still gone, except now the appeals page doesn't even work because it claims my account is in good standing.
So I went looking for some kind of human help or support, but another old Reddit account (a resurrected job search throwaway from 5+ years ago) got immediately killed the exact same way, the lying "granted" appeal and all!
It certainly revitalized my interest in using personal-blogging for information instead of contributing anything to Reddit's decaying ecosystem.
... But it's still shadowbanned and everything I ever wrote over those years is still gone, except now the appeals page doesn't even work because it claims my account is in good standing.
So I went looking for some kind of human help or support, but another old Reddit account (a resurrected job search throwaway from 5+ years ago) got immediately killed the exact same way, the lying "granted" appeal and all!
It certainly revitalized my interest in using personal-blogging for information instead of contributing anything to Reddit's decaying ecosystem.
Rather the same here.
A month or two after my main account was banned (see my other post in this thread), I logged into a second account which I'd not logged into for months.
Upon logging in, I discovered the account was "permanently suspended", and the reason for this was, and I quote;
"Your account has been permanently suspended for ."
A month or two after my main account was banned (see my other post in this thread), I logged into a second account which I'd not logged into for months.
Upon logging in, I discovered the account was "permanently suspended", and the reason for this was, and I quote;
"Your account has been permanently suspended for ."
Maybe next time you'll think twice before you .
i thought it was only a problem if you a coke bottle!
Just a guess it was from one of the bot purges and somehow they thought you were on a phoney account.
I think Paul's right in the sense that reddit seems to thrive as a community when the smallest amount of effort is put into running it. The series of leadership horror shows that all mostly left the site alone demonstrates that.
The recent very active moves to clean the site up and prep for this IPO have had a detrimental community effect in the sense of disgruntlement, but I would wager have been excellent in making the site more palatable as a business.
Virtually none of the reddit-alternatives that all spun up in the wake of this mop job have taken off. So assuming our gut feeling is right that reddit engagement is down, then overall engagement on all reddits is down and users have entirely moved to other social media styles entirely.
There's the other angle on this, that engagement is down, but it was calculated to get rid of mostly users who cost reddit things, or are of an undesirable user population (troublesome, illegal, etc.) And what's left is mostly a user class that maximizes the monetary value that can be harvested.
There are huge and obvious areas where reddit can better monetize the site if they wished, and I would guess that it's going to happen. Reddit has a very long history of doing a bunch of different experiments with the site, and an influx of investment to properly analyze and then monetize the more successful ones is my guess as to what's going to happen. The recent drive to vacuum up and sell data to LLM companies is serendipitous icing right now.
There's also the huge opening that's happening right now with Twitter, where with a few chess moves, Reddit could very easily turn into or pick up the population of exTwitter users who find the current ownership trends so toxic they don't want to be associated with it any longer, but don't have a platform with a built in non-friends public sphere to turn to -- which is why Facebook hasn't been able to really tap into that market gap.
The recent very active moves to clean the site up and prep for this IPO have had a detrimental community effect in the sense of disgruntlement, but I would wager have been excellent in making the site more palatable as a business.
Virtually none of the reddit-alternatives that all spun up in the wake of this mop job have taken off. So assuming our gut feeling is right that reddit engagement is down, then overall engagement on all reddits is down and users have entirely moved to other social media styles entirely.
There's the other angle on this, that engagement is down, but it was calculated to get rid of mostly users who cost reddit things, or are of an undesirable user population (troublesome, illegal, etc.) And what's left is mostly a user class that maximizes the monetary value that can be harvested.
There are huge and obvious areas where reddit can better monetize the site if they wished, and I would guess that it's going to happen. Reddit has a very long history of doing a bunch of different experiments with the site, and an influx of investment to properly analyze and then monetize the more successful ones is my guess as to what's going to happen. The recent drive to vacuum up and sell data to LLM companies is serendipitous icing right now.
There's also the huge opening that's happening right now with Twitter, where with a few chess moves, Reddit could very easily turn into or pick up the population of exTwitter users who find the current ownership trends so toxic they don't want to be associated with it any longer, but don't have a platform with a built in non-friends public sphere to turn to -- which is why Facebook hasn't been able to really tap into that market gap.
> And what's left is mostly a user class that maximizes the monetary value that can be harvested.
Yes, probably, but the user based changed dramatically before this. Since 2019 MAU more than doubled. I deleted my 11y old account after the last debacle. It was in the ~8th percentile of oldest accounts. That’s mind blowing, because I was by no means an early adopter.
The drop in signal-to-noise ratio has been dramatic over the years. The interesting, nerdy and quirky is drowned completely by memes, political rage bait, staged sob stories, etc. Which is fine for short term business, but also makes it replaceable. Attention brokerage is “daily fix” business, loyalty is near zero, and competition is fierce.
So every time someone argues a decision is good for business, it needs to be qualified by time and risk. If you sell your house to buy Nvidia calls, is that good for your personal finance?
Yes, probably, but the user based changed dramatically before this. Since 2019 MAU more than doubled. I deleted my 11y old account after the last debacle. It was in the ~8th percentile of oldest accounts. That’s mind blowing, because I was by no means an early adopter.
The drop in signal-to-noise ratio has been dramatic over the years. The interesting, nerdy and quirky is drowned completely by memes, political rage bait, staged sob stories, etc. Which is fine for short term business, but also makes it replaceable. Attention brokerage is “daily fix” business, loyalty is near zero, and competition is fierce.
So every time someone argues a decision is good for business, it needs to be qualified by time and risk. If you sell your house to buy Nvidia calls, is that good for your personal finance?
>Virtually none of the reddit-alternatives that all spun up in the wake of this mop job have taken off.
You forgot about random discords, which is where they went.
You forgot about random discords, which is where they went.
Underrated observation. Discord has stayed in the shadows to the wider audience but in terms of quality content and community building, from my POV it’s already surpassed Reddit’s peak. I don’t like that it’s yet another proprietary platform, and the ownership/business side is shady to say the least. But man, the product is light years ahead in almost every respect, except (importantly) discoverability.
I've been seeing talk on a few servers I moved to about what their "next move" will be when Discord pulls more BS. So they're actively thinking and talking about how to keep the community going longer term. I hope they circle back to forums. They're so much better in virtually every way and can be setup to have livechat, reddit-style posts, you name it.
That and some moved to forums. I didn't get a complete 1 for 1 of all the subreddits I used to frequent, but most of the main ones I used have moved to one of those solutions.
> undesirable user population
Above all the examples you listed: tech-savvy redditors who know how to use adblock and Old Reddit.
Above all the examples you listed: tech-savvy redditors who know how to use adblock and Old Reddit.
Reddit gets its value from the users that were affected and pissed off by the recent events. Calling the moderators who created and continued to foster communities which exist to farm content for the company 'landed gentry' and telling them that their concerns over being able to work with a broken and incomplete toolset in their terrible app were not worthy of even a good faith conversation caused an irreconcilable awareness of exactly what they meant to in the reddit equation. You don't ever want to do that -- let people who work hard to create value for you live under the illusion (and often reality) that they are doing it for themselves and for their fellow community members, and they will happily break their backs for you and praise your platform. But if you make it obvious what you really want from them, they will realize how much energy it takes to deal with all of the moderation and cultivation and when they reach that point when one too many people called them a Nazi for removing a low effort post they look in the mirror and go 'why am I doing this' and you lose them.
Sure, it works to immediately cull a lot of the 'whiners who only cause you problems' but you end up bleeding the people who do irreplaceably valuable work for you for free, and your platform becomes a cesspool of low-effort crap and you can see that happening in real time.
They killed their golden goose.
But they got their IPO and spez is gonna cash out and wash his hands of all of it and get congrats from his silicon valley buddies and go to sleep at night thinking how much those ungrateful idiots used his platform for free and didn't understand reality and how people like him needed to be rewarded for their work. All the while ignoring the fact that he is actually just a terrible businessman who, if he hadn't met Paul Graham and given free money and an idea and hadn't gotten incredibly lucky that digg imploded at exactly the right time, he would be an upper middle class suburbanite making a living wage working as a salesman for a SaaS company or something.
Sure, it works to immediately cull a lot of the 'whiners who only cause you problems' but you end up bleeding the people who do irreplaceably valuable work for you for free, and your platform becomes a cesspool of low-effort crap and you can see that happening in real time.
They killed their golden goose.
But they got their IPO and spez is gonna cash out and wash his hands of all of it and get congrats from his silicon valley buddies and go to sleep at night thinking how much those ungrateful idiots used his platform for free and didn't understand reality and how people like him needed to be rewarded for their work. All the while ignoring the fact that he is actually just a terrible businessman who, if he hadn't met Paul Graham and given free money and an idea and hadn't gotten incredibly lucky that digg imploded at exactly the right time, he would be an upper middle class suburbanite making a living wage working as a salesman for a SaaS company or something.
Yea, i stopped using it from mobile entirely when that happened. I expect them to kill `old.reddit` soon any that'll be the end of that for me. ATProto is far more interesting to me, if/when someone makes a link aggregator for them rather than the Twitter style UI of Bluesky. ActivityPub will do in a pinch, if needed. (i already tested this idea, for ~60 days with zero Reddit)
Old style interface on a development focused lemmy instance has completely replaced reddit usage for me
This is the equivalent of /r/all across the lemmy world
https://old.programming.dev/?sort=Active&listingType=All
This is the equivalent of /r/all across the lemmy world
https://old.programming.dev/?sort=Active&listingType=All
How's the built in censorship and cultural bias with Lemmy?
It definitely seems to lean left, from my (American) view. That might be because most of the western world would classify as left by my (American) standards?
There have been some right-wing and far-right instances, but they seem to get de-federated by the majority.
Hope that helps.
There have been some right-wing and far-right instances, but they seem to get de-federated by the majority.
Hope that helps.
"Left" and "right" tend to decoher once you move outside a particular political space into another (e.g. one country to another). The UK right wing party introduced gay marriage, but even the most left wing part of the country (Scotland) isn't particularly progressive (e.g. majority disapproval of allowing gender self identification to 16).
Similarly, trying to judge the UK on racial issues by US standards gets quite confusing. The common British attitude towards Romani would make even the confederate flag wavers of Texas call them racists.
On the other hand, there's full support for plenty of state intervention and state support, e.g. pretty much no one says they want to abolish the NHS.
Similarly, trying to judge the UK on racial issues by US standards gets quite confusing. The common British attitude towards Romani would make even the confederate flag wavers of Texas call them racists.
On the other hand, there's full support for plenty of state intervention and state support, e.g. pretty much no one says they want to abolish the NHS.
> Similarly, trying to judge the UK on racial issues by US standards gets quite confusing. The common British attitude towards Romani would make even the confederate flag wavers of Texas call them racists.
Not directly related to Romani treatment in Britain (not familiar enough with that to judge), but sometimes I wonder if the english language needs better words to distinguish between race based bigotry and culture based bigotry.
eg often I notice for a person there will be a difference in how they treat/view "acclimatised" descendants of immigrants vs new immigrants due to being ostensibly the same race but different culturally. Of course racists will still have bigotry for both groups.
Not directly related to Romani treatment in Britain (not familiar enough with that to judge), but sometimes I wonder if the english language needs better words to distinguish between race based bigotry and culture based bigotry.
eg often I notice for a person there will be a difference in how they treat/view "acclimatised" descendants of immigrants vs new immigrants due to being ostensibly the same race but different culturally. Of course racists will still have bigotry for both groups.
> sometimes I wonder if the english language needs better words
Words like this are not bad by coincidence, they're bad because they're incredibly politically important words and thus have their meanings and connotations fought over intensely.
It doesn't matter what new word or words you try and put in place, if they relate to things people have different strong feelings on then the meanings will become messy over time.
Words like this are not bad by coincidence, they're bad because they're incredibly politically important words and thus have their meanings and connotations fought over intensely.
It doesn't matter what new word or words you try and put in place, if they relate to things people have different strong feelings on then the meanings will become messy over time.
The word I think you're searching for is, "xenophobia."
In this connection, the book Lavengro by George Borrow is interesting reading.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavengro
Excerpts from the Wikipedia article:
Lavengro: The Scholar, the Gypsy, the Priest (1851) is a work by George Borrow, falling somewhere between the genres of memoir and novel, which has long been considered a classic of 19th-century English literature.
Theodore Watts, in an introduction to the 1893 edition, declared that "There are passages in Lavengro which are unsurpassed in the prose literature of England".[9] This edition started a run of reprints which produced one or more almost every year for 60 years. Lavengro was included in the Oxford University Press World's Classics series in 1904, and in Everyman's Library in 1906.[10]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavengro
Excerpts from the Wikipedia article:
Lavengro: The Scholar, the Gypsy, the Priest (1851) is a work by George Borrow, falling somewhere between the genres of memoir and novel, which has long been considered a classic of 19th-century English literature.
Theodore Watts, in an introduction to the 1893 edition, declared that "There are passages in Lavengro which are unsurpassed in the prose literature of England".[9] This edition started a run of reprints which produced one or more almost every year for 60 years. Lavengro was included in the Oxford University Press World's Classics series in 1904, and in Everyman's Library in 1906.[10]
> The common British attitude towards Romani would make even the confederate flag wavers of Texas call them racists.
I think you are misjudging the confederate flag wavers, what makes you say this?
I think you are misjudging the confederate flag wavers, what makes you say this?
it's awful. it's like a single reddit. the instances are atomic, so you get world-moderators, who are all "tankies" in lemmy own parlance (left, communist, heavily sided with russia as ussr continuity)
very toxic place. kinda like bizarro TwitterX.
very toxic place. kinda like bizarro TwitterX.
If you use lemmy.ml, sure. Or if you don't curate a frontpage of your own topics, sure. But I joined through some unaligned Scandinavian instance, found topics I like, and stay away from the /r/all equivalent, and it's just as tolerable as Reddit, if less populous.
I joined a instance focused on Android and follow another "mainstream" sub, and don't see that. There are some instances that are very "tankie" learning though... I avoid them, like I avoid any far right/left subs on reddit.
Good, it leans left, but not so far left that it’s just LGBTQ/feminist spam. It doesn’t have a bunch of right wing trolls so far. It’s like the early days of Reddit.
> Good, it leans left, but not so far left that it’s just LGBTQ/feminist spam.
It's not quite _spam_ but I think it's fair to say it's much more left-leaning than mainstream Reddit.
Some of the biggest communities, even non-political ones, are on instances such as Blåhaj (LGBTQ-oriented), Lemmy.ML (Marxist-oriented), Hexbear (Marxists on meth).
Short of subscribing to a defederated instance, you need to go out of your way to avoid left-wing content on Lemmy. Whereas on Reddit you could get rid of most of it by unsubscribing from the top 100 subreddits - which is something you wanted to do anyway for the sake of quality, even if you were the world's biggest leftist.
It's not quite _spam_ but I think it's fair to say it's much more left-leaning than mainstream Reddit.
Some of the biggest communities, even non-political ones, are on instances such as Blåhaj (LGBTQ-oriented), Lemmy.ML (Marxist-oriented), Hexbear (Marxists on meth).
Short of subscribing to a defederated instance, you need to go out of your way to avoid left-wing content on Lemmy. Whereas on Reddit you could get rid of most of it by unsubscribing from the top 100 subreddits - which is something you wanted to do anyway for the sake of quality, even if you were the world's biggest leftist.
There's a really good quip here about how leftwingers are naturally the most likely candidates to give away free web forums instead of trying to run web forum businesses, but I'm keeping it subscribers-only.
The early days of Reddit was heavily libertarian, if only reddit voted in 2008 and 2012, Ron Paul would have been a two term president.
That's correct. When people speak of the early days of Reddit it seems like they are talking about whatever time long ago they initially joined.
I'm always hesitant to make accounts on new sites, so I thought I had waited a long time to join officially, but I ended up being in the first 500 accounts! From the earliest days (the del.icio.us to Reddit influx) it was a very libertarian place. Sometimes annoyingly so.
Reddit has shifted so many times over the nearly 2 decades, but most who stay for a long time have realized that it's great for pocket communities in smaller subreddits, as long as they last and aren't co-opted. The bots are the worst part at the moment.
I'm always hesitant to make accounts on new sites, so I thought I had waited a long time to join officially, but I ended up being in the first 500 accounts! From the earliest days (the del.icio.us to Reddit influx) it was a very libertarian place. Sometimes annoyingly so.
Reddit has shifted so many times over the nearly 2 decades, but most who stay for a long time have realized that it's great for pocket communities in smaller subreddits, as long as they last and aren't co-opted. The bots are the worst part at the moment.
I remember in the early days of reddit there was a guy who would post links to his Austrian economics / Murray Rothbard blog every day, and they would end up on the front page because they had like 50 upvotes.
It was a pretty left leaning libertarian though. As soon as those racist papers he authored came out he quickly fell off of Reddit’s radar. Not to mention, he co-opted at lot of the left’s iconography with his re”love”ution campaign.
It looks like Old Reddit, but the content is New Reddit.
It's just a stream of political dreck and virtue signalling. I really don't need to see Trump in every second post and read about people who hate cars, meat, Twitter, Reddit, etc.
It's just a stream of political dreck and virtue signalling. I really don't need to see Trump in every second post and read about people who hate cars, meat, Twitter, Reddit, etc.
Yeah, Lemmy is a pretty decent platform but the suggestion of browsing "All" is godawful, if one is looking for something closer to pre-smartphone internet.
You need to curate your homepage a bit to get a good Lemmy experience. The tech side may be like Reddit, but the human aspect is more like a couple dozen vBulletin forums rolled into one.
Some of the instances are (imo) full of straight-up insane and, worse, perpetually angry people. Some instance admins may be power-hungry and prone to drama - but you might not care if the only subreddit you follow from their instance is c/jazz and you just click on Youtube/Spotify links from it.
Is it a pain? Yes. But I still prefer to deal with a couple dozen weirdos than with a single billion-dollar company.
You need to curate your homepage a bit to get a good Lemmy experience. The tech side may be like Reddit, but the human aspect is more like a couple dozen vBulletin forums rolled into one.
Some of the instances are (imo) full of straight-up insane and, worse, perpetually angry people. Some instance admins may be power-hungry and prone to drama - but you might not care if the only subreddit you follow from their instance is c/jazz and you just click on Youtube/Spotify links from it.
Is it a pain? Yes. But I still prefer to deal with a couple dozen weirdos than with a single billion-dollar company.
>Some of the instances are (imo) full of straight-up insane and, worse, perpetually angry people
This has been true for every instance of every Fedi thing I've ever tried to use or thought of using. And many instances block single-user instances so forget about running your own unless you only want to interact with the absolute fringest nutjob basement-dwellers -- because the "mainstream" Fedi is already fringe.
I once had the dumb impulse to reply to someone who was mad about fluoride in drinking water with "you probably get more fluoride from your toothpaste" and I deleted my account as I started to receive arguments about brushing your teeth, as it made me realize exactly the kind of people I would be interacting with on this network.
Honestly I think this is grows out of the incentives for operating a homeserver. There's a negative financial incentive so you must have some other kind of motivator, likely a desire for influence or power.
This has been true for every instance of every Fedi thing I've ever tried to use or thought of using. And many instances block single-user instances so forget about running your own unless you only want to interact with the absolute fringest nutjob basement-dwellers -- because the "mainstream" Fedi is already fringe.
I once had the dumb impulse to reply to someone who was mad about fluoride in drinking water with "you probably get more fluoride from your toothpaste" and I deleted my account as I started to receive arguments about brushing your teeth, as it made me realize exactly the kind of people I would be interacting with on this network.
Honestly I think this is grows out of the incentives for operating a homeserver. There's a negative financial incentive so you must have some other kind of motivator, likely a desire for influence or power.
Similarly, I replied to someone suggesting they pay for a service and I received multiple replies suggesting I kill myself.
This wasn't on some random Marxist community, this was on one of the big tech communities.
This wasn't on some random Marxist community, this was on one of the big tech communities.
Internet death threats are so common and boring that I only notice the amusingly new ones, like “I hope you can take advantage of Canadian healthcare.”
The way to save the internet is to force everyone to have a recent picture of themselves next to any post they make.
That would almost certainly end up with the internet becoming one gigantic linkedin and everyone leaving it to flock to whichever underground 4chan-esque service pops up with a promise of pseudonymity.
That's actually how you kill the internet. This won't change people's minds. They'll still think all those "offensive" things. They just won't post them publicly anymore because of the social consequences. You'll never know what people are really thinking.
I prefer to know. I want to experience the full spectrum of humanity.
I prefer to know. I want to experience the full spectrum of humanity.
Is that why Facebook is such a nice and balanced website?
You uncle McRacy doesn't have 200,000 followers. Your cousin McFatt does.
Sorry to say "you are holding it wrong", but browsing by all is just terrible. Much like reddit, things improve a lot if you subscribe to the communities that interest you and ignore everything else.
Granted, Lemmy's issue is that the user base is not large enough to have developed a long tail of interesting communities, but hopefully this will change as it grows.
Also, I know that finding the communities is difficult, so I've put together a website to work as a crowdsource of reddit-to-lemmy communities, https://fediverser.network
Granted, Lemmy's issue is that the user base is not large enough to have developed a long tail of interesting communities, but hopefully this will change as it grows.
Also, I know that finding the communities is difficult, so I've put together a website to work as a crowdsource of reddit-to-lemmy communities, https://fediverser.network
Hate is keyword here. I really wanted to like Lemmy, but almost all instances are full of frustrated hateful people. Even if sometimes rightfully it's still to toxic. Wild tankies appearing here and there are no help either.
I really don't need to see Trump in every second post and read about people who hate cars, meat, Twitter, Reddit, etc.
Exactly. All I see online is people talking about politics, their jobs, their families, their hobbies, the environment, technology, etc.
Exactly. All I see online is people talking about politics, their jobs, their families, their hobbies, the environment, technology, etc.
Thanks for this link, this is great
> I expect them to kill `old.reddit` soon
They have already started to redirect direct image links to the new reddit garbage which has stopped my usage for reddit for entertainment when bored.
They have already started to redirect direct image links to the new reddit garbage which has stopped my usage for reddit for entertainment when bored.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/load-reddit-i...
This solved that for me, but yeah it seems inevitable that all these user hostile decisions make the site unusable.
This solved that for me, but yeah it seems inevitable that all these user hostile decisions make the site unusable.
Modern Reddit is such a broken experience especially on the web. And honestly the community has degraded over the last couple of years.
[deleted]
And the number of bots is out of control. I'm guessing they are accounts that pretend to be regular users by copying other user comments on the same topic and posting them days/weeks later when the topic gets brought up again. Then I assume at some point in the future they'll be sold off to spammers or manipulators of some kind.
What kills me about old vs new reddit is feature parity is just not there. There's also a huge lack of tooling for reddit modding, but what really kills me is how long new reddit has been in development for and still no feature parity.
Instead of making old reddit an archive on github, they should have made new reddits front-end open. I'm sure it would be miles ahead if the users were allowed to contribute like they once did with old reddit.
I wonder how much money was spent to build new reddit. Feels like a dumpster fire.
Instead of making old reddit an archive on github, they should have made new reddits front-end open. I'm sure it would be miles ahead if the users were allowed to contribute like they once did with old reddit.
I wonder how much money was spent to build new reddit. Feels like a dumpster fire.
Reddit is a cesspit of its former self. The OG reddit is far from what it used to be. It's no longer an innocent link sharing platform, it's a socio-political platform with so much slime in between the subs that I find useful. Try and use Reddit daily and ignore all the drama, political shit, and covert rage click posts. It's emotionally exhausting not to get pulled in and have to constantly triage your home feed.
I have deleted my account at least half a dozen times and just tried to use it as a source of useful information, but I inevitably fall into the pit of getting another account because I can't control myself objecting to the nasty stuff on there. I know this is partly my self control problem, but social media in general is just awful. I can get rid of FB easily, there is literally no benefit for me being on there, but Reddit legit has useful content about all of my hobbies and how to do X.
It is unkillable but for some pretty rotten reasons. It's a social media platform mixed in with really useful content. Come for the search result, stay for the drama is what happens to me.
I have deleted my account at least half a dozen times and just tried to use it as a source of useful information, but I inevitably fall into the pit of getting another account because I can't control myself objecting to the nasty stuff on there. I know this is partly my self control problem, but social media in general is just awful. I can get rid of FB easily, there is literally no benefit for me being on there, but Reddit legit has useful content about all of my hobbies and how to do X.
It is unkillable but for some pretty rotten reasons. It's a social media platform mixed in with really useful content. Come for the search result, stay for the drama is what happens to me.
One thing that happened was the anti-tracking movement provided a better interface. They have their own comment sections that are somewhat better than the actual site. Bifurcation ensues.
> socio-political platform with so much slime in between the subs that I find useful.
That’s putting it nicely! I’m increasingly seeing it as a breeding ground for fringe-left radicalization.
That’s putting it nicely! I’m increasingly seeing it as a breeding ground for fringe-left radicalization.
It's all sorts of extremism, for sure. I found myself getting pulled into some of it over the Gaza war. It took me a while to realize what was happening to me, it was making me miserable, angry, anxious. I reflected on what was happening to my mental health, my reactivity, believing things without checking them before I responded. Similar on YouTube.
Loads of pro-Russian stuff that started to slip in, if I watched even one they started to accumulate and take over from what I used to watch for enjoyment. I then noticed these American pundits were using hijacked accounts to game the algo and get reach. Like one account was a vietnamese women's fashion account 2 years ago, now it's Americans talking about how Putin is definitely going to win the war very soon.
One day someone is going to write a history book about the 2020s propaganda and how technology was used as a psy-op, or whatever is going on. I didn't believe this was a real thing until I started questioning my own thoughts.
Loads of pro-Russian stuff that started to slip in, if I watched even one they started to accumulate and take over from what I used to watch for enjoyment. I then noticed these American pundits were using hijacked accounts to game the algo and get reach. Like one account was a vietnamese women's fashion account 2 years ago, now it's Americans talking about how Putin is definitely going to win the war very soon.
One day someone is going to write a history book about the 2020s propaganda and how technology was used as a psy-op, or whatever is going on. I didn't believe this was a real thing until I started questioning my own thoughts.
Of course you get both forms of extremism, but I think Reddit generally leans quite heavily towards the far-left.
It's a great time to do an ipo so people can cash out if they can (or just take a ridiculously sized salary). It's a terrible time to be a Reddit user. It seems like there's almost nothing left of content. And if you look at the front page then you see mostly just rage bait, relationship advice requests that can't possibly be true, and whatever video games are currently the most popular. There's almost no content more engaging then anything in a tiktok or Instagram feed. Nothing is memorable or filled with discussion. It's mostly filler. Sad really. I used to quite enjoy having discussions on various topics there. These days it's all noise.
Reddit sells the illusion of meaningful discussion in an online forum. Too bad that illusion is transparent, but where else can you get one - besides maybe here?
It's not all illusion though, particularly in smaller communities.
The big subs are seemingly filled to the brim with both post and comment repost bots. It's fun when they mess up and you see a few accounts post the same comments in the same thread then search and the comment was an actual users comment from days earlier.
The smaller communities only seem to highlight that most of the users on reddit are bots.
I keep seeing this bot comment and i'm not fully buying it. I'm not naïve, I know they exist. But on the small subs I read, anything that goes against that subs hivemind are called bots... including my own replies.
Am I a bot?
Am I a bot?
Agreed. I only tolerate reddit (for now) because it's always been better than Twitter/X and the alternatives haven't matured yet.
Hey, I know this is random but I'm a spontaneous fellow!
Wanna meditate together online at some point? I see you're into it (I'm on HN searching particular comments atm).
My email is in my profile.
Wanna meditate together online at some point? I see you're into it (I'm on HN searching particular comments atm).
My email is in my profile.
Quite similar experience, the communities for hobbies I used to check out almost daily are quite dead, they've become mostly a gear-showoff or beginner questions forum, the real content in longer form that some old posters used to create is mostly gone.
My own activity dropped like a rock after the API changes killed Apollo, the mobile client I used (and before that reddit had already acqui-killed a previous one Alien Blue). I simply check it out of habit, and mostly for news, don't have much of the joy I had when I had started accessing it back in 2009.
Probably it's just the natural cycle of profit-driven social media getting swallowed by Eternal Septembers after the initial batches of users posting interesting content and making the platform cool leave the place when the platform inevitably becomes user-hostile.
My own activity dropped like a rock after the API changes killed Apollo, the mobile client I used (and before that reddit had already acqui-killed a previous one Alien Blue). I simply check it out of habit, and mostly for news, don't have much of the joy I had when I had started accessing it back in 2009.
Probably it's just the natural cycle of profit-driven social media getting swallowed by Eternal Septembers after the initial batches of users posting interesting content and making the platform cool leave the place when the platform inevitably becomes user-hostile.
You can pretty much graduate yourself beyond the expertise of any outdooring subreddit by walking through a city park and any car-based subreddit by actually owning a car.
I've been thinking about this and trad forums witht he ability to bump a topic and keep it going for as long as there is interest really makes it the best venue for hobbies. I spent a good half hour on vwvortex the other day just surfing longer threads and learned more from that than anything reddit can offer.
It can be a little annoying when somebody tries to tack on an unrelated question to a thread but apparently the only alternative is to have 15 iterations of 'I just found out outside exist, what do?' every day.
I've been thinking about this and trad forums witht he ability to bump a topic and keep it going for as long as there is interest really makes it the best venue for hobbies. I spent a good half hour on vwvortex the other day just surfing longer threads and learned more from that than anything reddit can offer.
It can be a little annoying when somebody tries to tack on an unrelated question to a thread but apparently the only alternative is to have 15 iterations of 'I just found out outside exist, what do?' every day.
> Quite similar experience, the communities for hobbies I used to check out almost daily are quite dead
I've noticed some of the same for some communities, but where have they gone? Some claim to be migrating to Discord, which in my mind is even worse than Reddit, and to me is a high-stress environment (I simply cannot stand online chat, I've no patience for it, and if you're not constantly online you miss stuff).
There are hobby groups in Facebook, which is also disappointing since Facebook groups have terrible UX.
I've noticed some of the same for some communities, but where have they gone? Some claim to be migrating to Discord, which in my mind is even worse than Reddit, and to me is a high-stress environment (I simply cannot stand online chat, I've no patience for it, and if you're not constantly online you miss stuff).
There are hobby groups in Facebook, which is also disappointing since Facebook groups have terrible UX.
>I simply check it out of habit
Adding *.reddit.com to my DNS-blacklist was one of the single-most-productive "lines of code" I've ever added to my personal computer.
Cold-turkey, I quit.
/r/Supermod, 2010-2014, "the pineapple trees guy; erryday"
Adding *.reddit.com to my DNS-blacklist was one of the single-most-productive "lines of code" I've ever added to my personal computer.
Cold-turkey, I quit.
/r/Supermod, 2010-2014, "the pineapple trees guy; erryday"
After they killed Apollo, my usage after 15 years went from hours a day and tanked to a few minutes a month at present. They showed their hand, and I showed myself the door for the most part.
When the email dropped that I was one of the early users offered entrance into the IPO, I pretty much ignored it.
When the email dropped that I was one of the early users offered entrance into the IPO, I pretty much ignored it.
shells? they are more likely crap filled boxes of their former glory.
communities even remotely related to companies (e.g. r/googlepixel) are run by either fervently crazy zealot fans, or which is more likely, filtered by interns in those companies marketing dept in what seem to be reddit best revenue stream.
communities even remotely related to companies (e.g. r/googlepixel) are run by either fervently crazy zealot fans, or which is more likely, filtered by interns in those companies marketing dept in what seem to be reddit best revenue stream.
"Killed"/"killable" is one of those terms that changes with age. Was GM unkillable? Well, they aren't dead, but... Was Windows unkillable? Well, it's not dead, but... Is Facebook unkillable? Well, it's not dead, but... So the old fogies who would tell you GE, GM, IBM are all unkillable aren't wrong but neither were the younger folks they were responding to.
Lotta zombies hang on long after their relevance fades for the future. "X is unkillable" is a good way to reveal a limited imagination for future changes. You go from talking about disruption to talking about how things are now disruption-proof!
Lotta zombies hang on long after their relevance fades for the future. "X is unkillable" is a good way to reveal a limited imagination for future changes. You go from talking about disruption to talking about how things are now disruption-proof!
You have a strange definition of dead.
I would love to have a company that has 1% the success of just Windows 11 which is estimated to be on 20% of all running PCs, let alone the rest of the MS empire.
Selling 6.2 million vehicles in one year (GM) is hardly a zombie company.
Meta had 40 billion dollars of net revenue, and 3 billion MAUs, which is a pretty fierce zombie if you ask me.
IBM measures their profit in the billions too.
Even GE is still spinning off billions in profit.
All of the companies you mentioned have grown in the past 10 years.
I would love to have a company that has 1% the success of just Windows 11 which is estimated to be on 20% of all running PCs, let alone the rest of the MS empire.
Selling 6.2 million vehicles in one year (GM) is hardly a zombie company.
Meta had 40 billion dollars of net revenue, and 3 billion MAUs, which is a pretty fierce zombie if you ask me.
IBM measures their profit in the billions too.
Even GE is still spinning off billions in profit.
All of the companies you mentioned have grown in the past 10 years.
"Strange definition"? Isn't that literally what I said, that it changes definitions with age (and focus)?
Which of those companies still have the influence they did at their peak?
If you've got a startup, growth mindset, you're growing or you're dying. And even growth in revenue, headcount, profit, etc, can lag growth in relevance by decades.
Got any interesting new GE projects on your radar you'd want to work on that you think will be relevant in 20 years?
Do you think Paul Graham of twenty years ago would've called GE unkillable?
It's the difference in ambition and goals that leads to one person loving to take over today's Microsoft (or Reddit) and another - probably much younger person - wanting to start tomorrow's.
Which of those companies still have the influence they did at their peak?
If you've got a startup, growth mindset, you're growing or you're dying. And even growth in revenue, headcount, profit, etc, can lag growth in relevance by decades.
Got any interesting new GE projects on your radar you'd want to work on that you think will be relevant in 20 years?
Do you think Paul Graham of twenty years ago would've called GE unkillable?
It's the difference in ambition and goals that leads to one person loving to take over today's Microsoft (or Reddit) and another - probably much younger person - wanting to start tomorrow's.
> Which of those companies still have the influence they did at their peak?
Facebook is accused of having way too much influence on society as a whole on a constant basis.
MS is the money and computing power behind the hottest AI technology on earth. With Azure and AI they are arguably more influential than at any other time.
GM runs Cruise, which is busy inventing self driving cars and implementing the rules. They are also the largest manufacturer in the US. Hardly uninfluential.
> Got any interesting new GE projects on your radar you'd want to work on that you think will be relevant in 20 years?
Floating wind turbines, automated grid controls, efficient jet engines, 3d printed jet engine parts, advanced mobile medical imaging at sports events, modular nuclear reactors all seem like they might be relevant 20 years from now.
Facebook is accused of having way too much influence on society as a whole on a constant basis.
MS is the money and computing power behind the hottest AI technology on earth. With Azure and AI they are arguably more influential than at any other time.
GM runs Cruise, which is busy inventing self driving cars and implementing the rules. They are also the largest manufacturer in the US. Hardly uninfluential.
> Got any interesting new GE projects on your radar you'd want to work on that you think will be relevant in 20 years?
Floating wind turbines, automated grid controls, efficient jet engines, 3d printed jet engine parts, advanced mobile medical imaging at sports events, modular nuclear reactors all seem like they might be relevant 20 years from now.
All the examples you mention, GM, Facebook, and Windows, pump out a ton of money on the regular.
GM made ten billion in profit in the last year
GM made ten billion in profit in the last year
Which of them would you call unkillable?
I think Graham is getting a bit sentimental and overly attached to incumbents in his network.
I think Graham is getting a bit sentimental and overly attached to incumbents in his network.
Nothing is completely unkillable, but a company / tech doesn't have to be sexy, new, or fast-growing to be entirely viable or wildly profitable. See: GM, MS Excel, banks.
> have maybe 20% of the activity they used to, before the API fiasco
Is that really true? I have been on reddit since day 0 and have noticed 0 change, absolutely nothing. Some communities went through a "we're now on lemmy" phase. But even that went nowhere. Reddit is still plagued by mods and all the other things, but the userbase is as powerful as ever
Is that really true? I have been on reddit since day 0 and have noticed 0 change, absolutely nothing. Some communities went through a "we're now on lemmy" phase. But even that went nowhere. Reddit is still plagued by mods and all the other things, but the userbase is as powerful as ever
Maybe it's because my user is "only" 12 years old, but there is definitely a big difference in quality of the discussions and the activity today compared to 2-3 years ago, at least in the communities I hang around mostly (music production, 3D, animation and adjacent creative areas).
Quality discussions and activity don't drive normie usage, and that's what Reddit's optimizing for at this point. Feels like they want to be TikTok, but for links and images, and even the links part is slowly dying.
I wouldn't be surprised if you ran an analysis of the makeup of hot-page content across the biggest subs, if links used to make up 90%, that that number has slowly been dropping for the past 5 years to now be mostly images.
I wouldn't be surprised if you ran an analysis of the makeup of hot-page content across the biggest subs, if links used to make up 90%, that that number has slowly been dropping for the past 5 years to now be mostly images.
I used to be a heavy user, I rarely read it now and then. I certainly never post, and my accounts are deleted or inactive.
It still turns up in search results for me but it’s certainly no community I’m using.
If there is a stereotypical Reddit user, then they’re stagnating.
It still turns up in search results for me but it’s certainly no community I’m using.
If there is a stereotypical Reddit user, then they’re stagnating.
Anecdotal of course. I used to read for hours each day and post from time to time - I haven't even looked at it for months except a couple of days ago where I had to prep for a business meeting where reddit was relevant. I had been feeling for a long time that it was declining and also that my social media usage wasn't really adding anything positive so the API thing was just a convenient excuse to rip off the band-aid.
As someone who's used Reddit for a while, it definitely seems like there's less interesting stuff being posted there, and that things are a lot quieter than they used to be. A lot of the more technical/in depth subreddits seem to be near dead in comparison to how they were prior to the API fiasco.
But it probably depends on tastes too. If you went to Reddit for pet photos or sports discussions or political debates the difference is likely minimal, while if you went there to talk about astrophysics or history, it's probably a lot more noticeable.
But it probably depends on tastes too. If you went to Reddit for pet photos or sports discussions or political debates the difference is likely minimal, while if you went there to talk about astrophysics or history, it's probably a lot more noticeable.
I used to be a mod on a large tech subreddit, and Reddit's mod dashboard actually did show user traffic analytics. In the time between the API meltdown and my finally deleting my account, visits to the sub fell by about 30%.
>but the userbase is as powerful as ever
Sure about that? Start looking for bots that repost other peoples comments and we may find that questionable.
Sure about that? Start looking for bots that repost other peoples comments and we may find that questionable.
Sure the bots are a problem, but that didn't arise with the API changes in my experience.
The API situation seemed baffling to me at the time. The timing wasn't coincidental and it was clear that they were responding to people training LLMs on the Reddit corpus.
But here's the thing: prevailing HN sentiments notwithstanding, your average Redditor leans left and is fairly anti-big-tech, so Reddit could have leveraged this angle. They could've said it's a pro-user move to stop OpenAI and the likes from unfairly profiting off your work. And most users would have applauded.
But Reddit didn't say that. They took a PR hit and decided to wait it out. The cynical explanation was that they were actually just trying to get some of that LLM money for themselves. And not long ago, they announced a big deal with Google to give access to user data for training purposes: https://www.reuters.com/technology/reddit-ai-content-licensi...
Frankly, I was on the fence about the API access thing until the motivation became clear.
But here's the thing: prevailing HN sentiments notwithstanding, your average Redditor leans left and is fairly anti-big-tech, so Reddit could have leveraged this angle. They could've said it's a pro-user move to stop OpenAI and the likes from unfairly profiting off your work. And most users would have applauded.
But Reddit didn't say that. They took a PR hit and decided to wait it out. The cynical explanation was that they were actually just trying to get some of that LLM money for themselves. And not long ago, they announced a big deal with Google to give access to user data for training purposes: https://www.reuters.com/technology/reddit-ai-content-licensi...
Frankly, I was on the fence about the API access thing until the motivation became clear.
This doesn't track. They spent a lot of time and energy coordinating with the authors of popular mobile clients, and could easily have extended some means of letting them continue to operate given that they were clearly not harvesting content for themselves. Meanwhile, content can still be harvested for LLM training without the API (by using the HTML site).
It seems like the real intent was to regain control over the surfaces users use to consume the site, especially on mobile.
It seems like the real intent was to regain control over the surfaces users use to consume the site, especially on mobile.
Scraping is a lot more dicey than using an official API. Why did Google enter that partnership? They have the data in their index. The only conceivable reason is that they prefer to pay Reddit to avoid the risk of litigating it and ending up with some unfavorable precedent.
There's more than just the data you see remember, the data you don't see is also valuable. The DM's, the deleted posts, advertisingID's that link people to their accounts, and to their alt accounts, etc.
Avoid litigation and possibly of getting some injunction. And on other hand money can go to fund Reddit litigating others. As now they have proven someone paid so they could stop others using data. Slowing them down in process. And the sum is peanuts for Google, they waste that amount regularly...
Scraping and an official API are equally "dicey" in that the method isn't relevant to the question of how the content itself is licensed to be used.
> The timing wasn't coincidental and it was clear that they were responding to people training LLMs on the Reddit corpus.
Hard disagree, they were lying about their motives, plain and simple. Their claimed motiviation doesn't match what they did/didn't actually do.
For example, the biggest companies training LLMs could be dissuaded by simply changing the terms-of-service to prohibit that usage (skipping all that developer-labor and community protest) but Reddit didn't do that. (Dodgy companies that don't care aren't relevant since they'll just scrape the website even without API access.)
In contrast, "Reddit arbitrarily killed third-party apps to force their own app" does match what the company implemented: Abrupt and punishing new fees, mandating that third-party apps can't contain any ads of their own, and making certain categories of content exclusive to their own app.
Hard disagree, they were lying about their motives, plain and simple. Their claimed motiviation doesn't match what they did/didn't actually do.
For example, the biggest companies training LLMs could be dissuaded by simply changing the terms-of-service to prohibit that usage (skipping all that developer-labor and community protest) but Reddit didn't do that. (Dodgy companies that don't care aren't relevant since they'll just scrape the website even without API access.)
In contrast, "Reddit arbitrarily killed third-party apps to force their own app" does match what the company implemented: Abrupt and punishing new fees, mandating that third-party apps can't contain any ads of their own, and making certain categories of content exclusive to their own app.
The site really took a nosedive in about the last 6 months in my experience, I think a combination of the API fiasco + current world events has really done a 1-2 punch on the site. The front page of reddit is a nightmare zone, it's all ragebait, clickbait, shit political memes and posts clearly made by marketing interns and boosted by bot accounts. Every comment section feels intensely ideological and any comment that strays from the majority opinion is downvoted to hell. Also loads of those tacky "badges" on comments everywhere making for a lot of visual clutter. Just an all around unpleasant to use site. PG calls the average reddit user "curious, skeptical, ready to be amused" which feels almost like the exact opposite of my experience.
I’ve felt it too. I can’t fight the feeling that it happens to attract a certain kind of mentally ill person. Specifically, the preponderance of anxious, neurotic persons, often with a persecution complex and a militant ideology, is enormous. The result is a climate of unbridled vitriol and outright hate for whatever group they hold responsible for their woes.
It increasingly feels like Reddit is a breeding ground for various types of extremism (usually left-leaning, with some notable exceptions).
It increasingly feels like Reddit is a breeding ground for various types of extremism (usually left-leaning, with some notable exceptions).
People who seem to want to be offended. I hate the /s they've adopted. It ruins the joke by explaining it. I dislike the implication sarcasm cannot be conveyed via text. Hundreds of years of authorship and numerous popular works tell otherwise. But people do it to shield themselves from what sometimes feels like intentional misinterpretation.
Showing votes is possibly a huge contributing factor. It's well known they gather momentum.
Showing votes is possibly a huge contributing factor. It's well known they gather momentum.
> I hate the /s they've adopted. [...] I dislike the implication sarcasm cannot be conveyed via text.
I suspect autism is overrepresented in the Reddit population.
I suspect autism is overrepresented in the Reddit population.
It probably is here too, but people tend to self regulate a little better I think. The rules help a lot too.
I still use some tech subs but I used to dumbscroll the main page for inane things to laugh at. What was on there changed over time and it was well past the high point, but maybe a year or six months ago I just couldn't do it. The stuff you describe was always part of the /r/all mix but now that is all there is. There's nothing fun on there anymore, at all.
lemmy is probably to left leaning for my taste but at least the main page still has lots inane and funny things as well as more of a tech focus.
lemmy is probably to left leaning for my taste but at least the main page still has lots inane and funny things as well as more of a tech focus.
I quit last week with Reddit. I thought it might be a good idea to write a controversial opinion in a sub reddit. Received a perma ban. Well thanks. The content, the way the site works, dark patterns and its just not nice anymore. Happy to be loose.
Out of curiosity, what was this fringe opinion? I think this is the elephant in the room when it comes to Reddit: it’s been captured by a certain kind of radical ideologue.
It was my opinion on the Russian war in Ukraine in worldnews. My opinion was not in line with the bubble and received a ban for spreading false information.
That's not as bad as getting random bans from subreddits you never use because you join or post to a different one. To me that it is insane.
[deleted]
Worldnews are pretty well known for banning anyone that looks at them funny; you're permitted exactly one correct opinion, deviation will lead to termination Comrade.
Was it r/comics?
I was an active and fairly early Reddit user for many years, but the brutal changes to satisfy financial goals drove me away as well.
I think it’s interesting to see a flagging platform with a user base that will consistently post and upvote “fuck spez” celebrated here as a success, but I suppose the only thing that matters at this level of discussion is the almighty dollar.
I think it’s interesting to see a flagging platform with a user base that will consistently post and upvote “fuck spez” celebrated here as a success, but I suppose the only thing that matters at this level of discussion is the almighty dollar.
Completely agree with you.
My circle & I have stopped reddit on phone almost completely.
So many active posters have left reddit, that it is a shell of what it previously was. Some of my favorite subreddits have become inactive and shallower, to the point that admins are actively boosting up alternate subreddits
From what I can gather, the large majority of the remaining active users in the site are people who use reddit as alternative to 9Gag & Porn sites - prolly hyperbole, but that is what the new r/all felt like
My circle & I have stopped reddit on phone almost completely.
So many active posters have left reddit, that it is a shell of what it previously was. Some of my favorite subreddits have become inactive and shallower, to the point that admins are actively boosting up alternate subreddits
From what I can gather, the large majority of the remaining active users in the site are people who use reddit as alternative to 9Gag & Porn sites - prolly hyperbole, but that is what the new r/all felt like
Agreed, I was thinking that the API protest and the crackdown Reddit perpetrated wouldn't end up actually doing much (did still delete my account though, partly as an excuse to break the habit), and while to an extent that's true, I've noticed many more deleted or edited comments than I used to pre-crackdown. It really did drive off a lot of positive contributors.
> I also stopped using reddit on the phone after my chosen reddit client was closed down (which I'm grateful for, thanks reddit).
Same here, very grateful for Reddit’s API changes. It made me realize how little value Reddit actually provided vs time spent. I refuse to use their dumpster fire of an app so I quit altogether and deleted my very old account + comments. Good riddance after all, for each “niche” subreddit I was on, I have found very active forums and communities to replace these subreddits. And they’re independent forums that are very old (in internet terms) with lots of passionate people sharing very valuable information.
Turns out I didn’t really need Reddit at all but it took their shortsighted hara-kiri for me to realize.
Oh well, thanks Greeddit!
Same here, very grateful for Reddit’s API changes. It made me realize how little value Reddit actually provided vs time spent. I refuse to use their dumpster fire of an app so I quit altogether and deleted my very old account + comments. Good riddance after all, for each “niche” subreddit I was on, I have found very active forums and communities to replace these subreddits. And they’re independent forums that are very old (in internet terms) with lots of passionate people sharing very valuable information.
Turns out I didn’t really need Reddit at all but it took their shortsighted hara-kiri for me to realize.
Oh well, thanks Greeddit!
Have you found any generalizable methods for finding non-Reddit communities for niche interests?
I search for “$topic forum” or “$topic community” and there will typically be something in the first 10 results. There is a little trial and error involved, I check which one of the forums has been around for a while (10+ years works best for me) and still has regular activity (message volume + last posted messages)
Sometimes it ends up being a discord chat as this is very popular. Not ideal as I don’t love the discord walled garden but still better than Reddit. And if/when they pull a Reddit in the future, well, I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.
I should add that in getting much better results for these queries since switching to kagi. Ddg and startpage had more spam/SEO/generated junk in the top results. It was more effort to find these communities on those but not impossible either.
Sometimes it ends up being a discord chat as this is very popular. Not ideal as I don’t love the discord walled garden but still better than Reddit. And if/when they pull a Reddit in the future, well, I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.
I should add that in getting much better results for these queries since switching to kagi. Ddg and startpage had more spam/SEO/generated junk in the top results. It was more effort to find these communities on those but not impossible either.
Oh wow, Kagi is a little gem -- thanks for introducing me to it!
Glad you like it!
As an opposite anecdote, I probably use it as much now as before the API stuff.
I had (have?) a twelve year account, coming on the tails of the digg fallout.
Once they pulled the API I was out. Not terrible since the site's quality has been in steady decline for years. Eventually you realize you are doing the equivalent of having economics discussions in the youtube comments of a taylor swift video.
But it seems that lowest common denominator user is who reddit really wants, so good luck to them.
Once they pulled the API I was out. Not terrible since the site's quality has been in steady decline for years. Eventually you realize you are doing the equivalent of having economics discussions in the youtube comments of a taylor swift video.
But it seems that lowest common denominator user is who reddit really wants, so good luck to them.
I’m on a similar boat, but for all we know, for each of us there might be ten new users who have recently flocked to the site and don’t give a damn.
Not all users are created equal. Reddit's lost a ton of valuable contributors, via enshitification, and I only expect that to get worse.
I would like to see some hard number from people that claim Reddit was hurt from the "API Fiasco". My theory is that this is a very small number of users with a very loud voice. Entitled mods were the only people that closed down subs. Most users did not even support this decision.
Same is happening again now, entitled moderaters who complain about CEO pay.
If anything is destroying Reddit, it's the mods IMO.
Same is happening again now, entitled moderaters who complain about CEO pay.
If anything is destroying Reddit, it's the mods IMO.
> I would like to see some hard number from people that claim Reddit was hurt from the "API Fiasco".
Probably pretty hard to get. Some of the content I found that went away, was quality content. There are still users posting/discussing stuff in the niches I'm interested in, but all the high-quality discussions have gone missing, and the one's who used to engage in it no longer seem to be using reddit at all.
But there is no objective way to measure "high quality content vs low quality", so it'll be short of impossible to get any objective measures of this, it's just my anecdotal experience with a subset of subreddits.
Probably pretty hard to get. Some of the content I found that went away, was quality content. There are still users posting/discussing stuff in the niches I'm interested in, but all the high-quality discussions have gone missing, and the one's who used to engage in it no longer seem to be using reddit at all.
But there is no objective way to measure "high quality content vs low quality", so it'll be short of impossible to get any objective measures of this, it's just my anecdotal experience with a subset of subreddits.
Entitled mods... you mean the people who work for free to make reddit work? I'm not a mod and I don't have very strong opinion of reddit moderators one way or another (many do), but I think reddit would do well not to make mods angry. They are an unpaid work force.
Anyone who has run a forum knows that mods are paid, usually with ego or duty or power, but they certainly get something from it. Else hundreds of people wouldn't want to be moderators of small phpbb forums much less thousands of people on reddit.
Either way, I don't think compensation swivels the "entitled, power-tripping reddit mod" trope where they ban from their subreddit if you make a comment they disagree with. It's one of reddit's biggest problems.
Either way, I don't think compensation swivels the "entitled, power-tripping reddit mod" trope where they ban from their subreddit if you make a comment they disagree with. It's one of reddit's biggest problems.
As far as I can tell, the business model of modern social media is to make money by selling advertisers access to children, gamblers, addicts, and profligates. The content and moderation that people think is the purpose of social media doesn't actually make any money and never has.
At the same time, good moderation is what made reddit what it is, if there weren't mods doing free work for reddit in 2009 it would be flooded with YouTube comments style of content since that's what low friction posting without moderation achieves.
Yeah but Reddit doesn't owe the mods anything, the users do.
The dog doesn't owe anything to the hand that feeds it, but it would still do well not to bite it.
What? Reddit owes their entire platform to their volunteer moderators and users who contribute content. Reddit the company adds almost nothing of value, the tech isn't exactly special -- if anything it's so bad as to be hindrance.
Well, my experience is only anecdotal, but after the third party apps shut down (RIF in my case) I checked reddit less, maybe once every few days. This wasn't a conscious decision or a protest. I tried the main Reddit app and hated it. One of the key draws to my active participation in Reddit had been killed.
A number of subreddits I moderate were shutdown by reddit for being unmoderated. It turns out a lot of mods disengaged. None of the subreddits I was a part of were a part of the protests, but banning communities by moderators that disengaged achieved the same outcome as a protest effectively. Maybe someone has numbers for how many communities were banned for being unmoderated, and did this number increase after the API changes?
A number of subreddits I moderate were shutdown by reddit for being unmoderated. It turns out a lot of mods disengaged. None of the subreddits I was a part of were a part of the protests, but banning communities by moderators that disengaged achieved the same outcome as a protest effectively. Maybe someone has numbers for how many communities were banned for being unmoderated, and did this number increase after the API changes?
The hypothesis without data is that users [mods/power users] who cared about reddit, who contributed to reddit, have largely left or disengaged to an extent.
I would like to see numbers myself, though. However, looking at reddit/r/all, I suspect much of that activity is botting.
I mean, no one can seriously post "my gf cheated, AITAH for breaking up with her?".
Come on...
I would like to see numbers myself, though. However, looking at reddit/r/all, I suspect much of that activity is botting.
I mean, no one can seriously post "my gf cheated, AITAH for breaking up with her?".
Come on...
So many endless repost-bots :-/
I don't notice this at all. Old communities die off and new ones spring up all the time, and the new ones are still springing up alright. The local subs are doing well, there are still plenty of "less popular" subs to have great discussions in. The app is not great not terrible, no biggie.
They rather consciously decided that jettisoning some hard-core techies, privacy people and other "weirdos" is an acceptable price to pay for more mass appeal and more profitability. Remember, you as a user are not the client of Reddit Inc, you're the product. You or I may not like that direction, but we're not great products anyway. I block ads for Pete's sake, I am literally worthless to them.
They rather consciously decided that jettisoning some hard-core techies, privacy people and other "weirdos" is an acceptable price to pay for more mass appeal and more profitability. Remember, you as a user are not the client of Reddit Inc, you're the product. You or I may not like that direction, but we're not great products anyway. I block ads for Pete's sake, I am literally worthless to them.
I liked it better before the modern Reddit censorship machine.
At least old.reddit.com still works. For now.
At least old.reddit.com still works. For now.
Stopped going to the site/app completely... they were so far off base with the API war it wasn't worth it.
It'll shamble on forever. Look at the front page in a private tab right now.
Yeah it's all dogshit content, but this is the product now. All the niche communities that made reddit good were dying a slow death well before any of the API stuff.
That old product is dead, the current reddit will live forever as long as they can get costs under control.
Yeah it's all dogshit content, but this is the product now. All the niche communities that made reddit good were dying a slow death well before any of the API stuff.
That old product is dead, the current reddit will live forever as long as they can get costs under control.
Yeah, that's an affirmation from someone who's in a very pampered US-centric group of Reddit users (if he is that at all). "My investment is very good!"
In the last year, Reddit has pushed localized home pages across the world, and my own example is the default home page for Canada. It's now exclusively sports and right-wing nuttery.
There were good communities, but they were molded by their good moderators, and these moderators are gone.
In the last year, Reddit has pushed localized home pages across the world, and my own example is the default home page for Canada. It's now exclusively sports and right-wing nuttery.
There were good communities, but they were molded by their good moderators, and these moderators are gone.
> In the last year, Reddit has pushed localized home pages across the world, and my own example is the default home page for Canada.
I found this quite nice. A lot less American politics on the front page and some fun bits of local news.
I found this quite nice. A lot less American politics on the front page and some fun bits of local news.
> and my own example is the default home page for Canada. It's now exclusively sports and right-wing nuttery.
I think that’s typical for any national sub, because it will be filled with people that live in places that don’t have the critical mass for a local/regional subreddit (or just don’t fit into it).
I think that’s typical for any national sub, because it will be filled with people that live in places that don’t have the critical mass for a local/regional subreddit (or just don’t fit into it).
I'm not talking about the /r/Canada subreddit, I'm talking about the complete front page feed for Canadian visitors.
There are several "main" Canadian subreddits, and the only ones showing up for anon Canadian guests now are the right-wing and far-right subreddits.
There are several "main" Canadian subreddits, and the only ones showing up for anon Canadian guests now are the right-wing and far-right subreddits.
[deleted]
Can you be specific about these "right-wing and far-right" subreddits you're seeing on the front page?
I'm not logged in (I don't have a Reddit account), I'm in Canada, and on the Reddit home page I'm currently seeing submissions associated with these Canada-specific subreddits:
6 for r/canada
2 for r/onguardforthee
2 for r/ontario
2 for r/PersonalFinanceCanada
1 for r/alberta
1 for r/vancouver
None of those subreddits look "right-wing" or "far-right" to me in any way.
In fact, I'm surprised at how left-leaning they tend to be, especially r/alberta. Of the current top five submissions there, four are for CBC articles, for example, and there are a few other CBC articles on the first page.
r/onguardforthee seems to be overtly left wing.
The other front page subreddits are broad (like r/AskReddit, r/politics, r/news), or about sports or hobbies (like r/gaming, r/baseball, r/hockey, r/FigureSkating).
None the subreddits I'm seeing on the Reddit front page seem to me to even be right-of-centre, let alone "right-wing" or "far-right".
I'm not logged in (I don't have a Reddit account), I'm in Canada, and on the Reddit home page I'm currently seeing submissions associated with these Canada-specific subreddits:
6 for r/canada
2 for r/onguardforthee
2 for r/ontario
2 for r/PersonalFinanceCanada
1 for r/alberta
1 for r/vancouver
None of those subreddits look "right-wing" or "far-right" to me in any way.
In fact, I'm surprised at how left-leaning they tend to be, especially r/alberta. Of the current top five submissions there, four are for CBC articles, for example, and there are a few other CBC articles on the first page.
r/onguardforthee seems to be overtly left wing.
The other front page subreddits are broad (like r/AskReddit, r/politics, r/news), or about sports or hobbies (like r/gaming, r/baseball, r/hockey, r/FigureSkating).
None the subreddits I'm seeing on the Reddit front page seem to me to even be right-of-centre, let alone "right-wing" or "far-right".
It’s quite common for redditors to consider anything short of far-left as being far-right.
That's rich coming from someone who definitely doesn't lean left.
> my own example is the default home page for Canada. It's now exclusively sports and right-wing nuttery.
Can you give some concrete examples of this "right-wing nuttery" you mention?
I've heard other people in Canada make this claim, but whenever I visit the Reddit home page (without logging in; I don't have a Reddit account), I consistently see the opposite.
Right now, for example, two of the top five submissions I see are CBC and Toronto Star articles complaining about Ontario's Conservative government's policies. (For those who are unfamiliar with them, CBC and the Toronto Star are among the most left wing of Canada's mainstream media.)
Still in the top ten, there's an article complaining about how some corporate layoffs at Bell were conducted.
There's an anti-Trump article, a article about Biden cancelling some student loan debt, and a complaint about "the rich" (Musk, specifically) in the top fifteen.
Beyond that, there's a submission complaining about a landlord's behaviour, an article about urban planning in Vancouver, and the front page ends with a submission that's upset about some munitions company executive cutting down some trees in the US.
The rest are about sports, oddities, or otherwise don't seem to be political in nature.
I wouldn't consider any of the submissions I'm being shown to be obviously "right-wing" in any way. A number of them I'd consider to be centrist or neutral, if not left-of-centre. Several are overtly left wing.
Can you give some concrete examples of this "right-wing nuttery" you mention?
I've heard other people in Canada make this claim, but whenever I visit the Reddit home page (without logging in; I don't have a Reddit account), I consistently see the opposite.
Right now, for example, two of the top five submissions I see are CBC and Toronto Star articles complaining about Ontario's Conservative government's policies. (For those who are unfamiliar with them, CBC and the Toronto Star are among the most left wing of Canada's mainstream media.)
Still in the top ten, there's an article complaining about how some corporate layoffs at Bell were conducted.
There's an anti-Trump article, a article about Biden cancelling some student loan debt, and a complaint about "the rich" (Musk, specifically) in the top fifteen.
Beyond that, there's a submission complaining about a landlord's behaviour, an article about urban planning in Vancouver, and the front page ends with a submission that's upset about some munitions company executive cutting down some trees in the US.
The rest are about sports, oddities, or otherwise don't seem to be political in nature.
I wouldn't consider any of the submissions I'm being shown to be obviously "right-wing" in any way. A number of them I'd consider to be centrist or neutral, if not left-of-centre. Several are overtly left wing.
My experience of cookie-less Reddit (and the reason I don't go anymore) is getting served default subreddits like /r/Canada_sub.
I'm very open to being wrong or outdated in my impression, however!
I'm very open to being wrong or outdated in my impression, however!
Same thing as Twitter, they think the power of these sites is the tech. It's not. It's the community and when you turn that into an EBTIDA growth engine it's going to rebel.
We need something to replace it. Lemmy isn't quite there yet.
It could already but doesn't have enough users
How much of that is Reddit and how much of it is that all online communities have a definite lifecycle. Either they age out, or they become too popular and become useless.
I'm in the same boat. I only ever log in periodically to see what's going on with r/AskHistorians, and then promptly run away.
Reddit greatest thing were the users but the current users are killing it.
> > Reddit the site (and now app)
they have been bugging you with the app for years
they have been bugging you with the app for years
> Aaron was younger, a college freshman, and even more anti-authority than Steve. It's not exaggerating to describe him as a martyr for what authority later did to him.
I started reading this cynically curious if Aaron would even be mentioned, but well said.
I started reading this cynically curious if Aaron would even be mentioned, but well said.
The NPR piece on Reddit this morning stated it was founded by Steve Huffman and Alex Ohanian, and didn’t even mention Aaron Swartz.
This is probably because PG encouraged spez and kn0thing to pivot from their original idea and become founders of reddit in June 2005 and Aaron Swartz joined reddit in November 2005 after a conversation with PG, who suggested he work with spez and kn0thing on stabilizing the code since reddit had an early tendency to crash.[0]
I found reddit back in 2005 and remember the post announcing that Aaron had joined the team and giving a bit of his background. Reddit was a lot different back then since there were no subreddits.
[0]https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/the-brilli...
I found reddit back in 2005 and remember the post announcing that Aaron had joined the team and giving a bit of his background. Reddit was a lot different back then since there were no subreddits.
[0]https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/the-brilli...
He wasn't really a founder though. He was brought in months later because his own startup idea hadn't got any traction. He's a founder only in the same way that Elon is a "founder" of Tesla - a retroactive title that was the result of a deal.
I suppose to make the title legitimate Elon should’ve formally started another company, and then acquired the other?
It seems like getting in and operating in a pivotal way within the first 12 months is a valid time frame to still be given a founder title if the other founders agree to it. Since when you decide to incorporate is not consistently/necessarily at the same time for finalizing the foundational team members for a getting a company on its feet.
It seems like getting in and operating in a pivotal way within the first 12 months is a valid time frame to still be given a founder title if the other founders agree to it. Since when you decide to incorporate is not consistently/necessarily at the same time for finalizing the foundational team members for a getting a company on its feet.
The Elon-hate is so crazy to me.
He pitched in a lot of cash at a do-or-die moment in Tesla's history.
He then served as the CEO and driving force through some extremely lean and tough years, including working like hell to raise capital (which isn't optional if you're making cars)
Would we have Tesla today without Musk? No. Would electric cars be ubiquitous if it was up to the likes of Ford, GM, Mercedes, Toyota to push the tech? No.
It is, of course, entirely OK to dislike him - but at least admit his contributions.
He pitched in a lot of cash at a do-or-die moment in Tesla's history.
He then served as the CEO and driving force through some extremely lean and tough years, including working like hell to raise capital (which isn't optional if you're making cars)
Would we have Tesla today without Musk? No. Would electric cars be ubiquitous if it was up to the likes of Ford, GM, Mercedes, Toyota to push the tech? No.
It is, of course, entirely OK to dislike him - but at least admit his contributions.
The whole point is that it isn't enough for him to be recognized for his contributions. He must rewrite history to paint himself as the singular genius while discounting the work of others who were also a part of the story. There is a messianic figure that he presents in his own self-mythologizing that I find dangerous and troubling.
It is, of course, entirely OK to admire his contributions - but at least admit the dark side of his persona and the means he's used to achieved his ends.
It is, of course, entirely OK to admire his contributions - but at least admit the dark side of his persona and the means he's used to achieved his ends.
>He must rewrite history to paint himself as the singular genius
But that's closer to the truth in this case than anything else.
It's not an exaggeration to say that all Musk gained when he joined Tesla seven months after the founding—bringing the first substantial amount of outside capital—was the brand name.
But that's closer to the truth in this case than anything else.
It's not an exaggeration to say that all Musk gained when he joined Tesla seven months after the founding—bringing the first substantial amount of outside capital—was the brand name.
I agree with you on your comments about his contributions, but that doesn't mean he deserves the title of Founder of Tesla (Nor does Aaron, RIP).
Neither of them FOUNDED the company, they joined in later on.
Neither of them FOUNDED the company, they joined in later on.
How is this Elon-hate? Is a founder someone who founded a company or someone who joined it later? Calling someone not a founder doesn't change their contributions to the company.
None of that makes him a founder, simple as that. You're blowing that comment out of proportion.
>working like hell to raise capital
Sounds like some really back breaking labor, was this during his 80 hour work weeks?
Sounds like some really back breaking labor, was this during his 80 hour work weeks?
You're right - it's super easy to bounce around from one rich person to the next, trying to get fat cheques from them for your unproven and almost-certainly-going-to-fail hardware startup that would only work if enough other rich people also give you big cheques, based on nothing but a pinky-promise that you'll try your darndest to invent, manufacture, and sell cars well enough to get them their money back, one day, maybe, if all goes perfectly.
Why don't you do it too?
Why don't you do it too?
Raising capital in a new industry sucks, lol. A cushy job is still a job, and the human brain does a REALLY good job at building the same amount of attrition across roles in relativity - whether you're breaking your back in the mine or cold-calling 400 people a day from a Herman Miller chair.
> Would we have Tesla today without Musk? No. Would electric cars be ubiquitous if it was up to the likes of Ford, GM, Mercedes, Toyota to push the tech? No.
These may all be true, but that doesn't make Elon the founder of Tesla. As for the general sentiment of Elon-hate over the last few years, well, he has only himself to blame...
The reason people like to point this out is because it highlights the fact that Elon's fragile ego is not a new phenomenon. It was always there, even before he decided to go full crazy.
These may all be true, but that doesn't make Elon the founder of Tesla. As for the general sentiment of Elon-hate over the last few years, well, he has only himself to blame...
The reason people like to point this out is because it highlights the fact that Elon's fragile ego is not a new phenomenon. It was always there, even before he decided to go full crazy.
I'm not on the Elon hate train (not a fanboy either, but I mostly agree with the positive things you said about him.) However, I did think pointing out the comparison would head off any "how dare you, Aaron deserves to be called a founder" comments.
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> it was founded by Steve Huffman and Alex Ohanian
That is true. But a bit later Reddit was joined with a company Aaron Swartz had founded, so he became a cofounder of this new arrangement of Reddit.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20241
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Entrepreneurship
That is true. But a bit later Reddit was joined with a company Aaron Swartz had founded, so he became a cofounder of this new arrangement of Reddit.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20241
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Entrepreneurship
It was a bit of a gut punch for me.
His is a story of a self-selected marter. This is an unpopular opinion: he broke the law and refused to plead, then jumped on RT and dissed the prosecution for years. There was no chance they were going to back down.
Why does this hurt me?
Well, Lawrence Lessig and Richard Stallman and the rest of them radicalised me at a young age too. I was their boy. Watching that documentary was like looking into a time-warping mirror!
Maybe every hairy nerd my age feels the same way, I don't know.
His is a story of a self-selected marter. This is an unpopular opinion: he broke the law and refused to plead, then jumped on RT and dissed the prosecution for years. There was no chance they were going to back down.
Why does this hurt me?
Well, Lawrence Lessig and Richard Stallman and the rest of them radicalised me at a young age too. I was their boy. Watching that documentary was like looking into a time-warping mirror!
Maybe every hairy nerd my age feels the same way, I don't know.
Same...I honestly am furious at the effort to link Steve and Aaron here. Having known Steve, not well but for a LONG time I would struggle to label him anti-authority in any way. I think he wears many of the trappings of antiauthoritarianism - but only as a path to what he wants.
I came to Reddit via Alien Blue and stayed via Apollo. Now I check a few subs periodically in a browser, but my usage has drastically dropped without Apollo.
Have you updated past iOS 17.0? If not:
— Install AppStore++ for TrollStore: https://github.com/CokePokes/AppStorePlus-TrollStore
— Install Apollo from the App Store
— Open AppStore++, tap Apollo, tap downgrade, choose 1.15.11
— Go to your home screen and wait for the older Apollo to finish downloading
— Install this tweak: https://github.com/JeffreyCA/Apollo-ImprovedCustomApi
Open Apollo and it will prompt for your API keys — Stebe Jovs voice “Boom.”
— Install AppStore++ for TrollStore: https://github.com/CokePokes/AppStorePlus-TrollStore
— Install Apollo from the App Store
— Open AppStore++, tap Apollo, tap downgrade, choose 1.15.11
— Go to your home screen and wait for the older Apollo to finish downloading
— Install this tweak: https://github.com/JeffreyCA/Apollo-ImprovedCustomApi
Open Apollo and it will prompt for your API keys — Stebe Jovs voice “Boom.”
Do I need jailbreak for that? Didn’t get from the GitHub’s pages.
It's a CoreTrust bug that lets a jailed app install IPAs, not a full jailbreak: https://ios.cfw.guide/installing-trollstore/
Same, I quit using Reddit when they killed Apollo. Their app is terrible.
It’s what pushed me to Lemmy, which feels like Reddit early days. Actual discussion. Names that I recognize from one post to another. It’s worth checking out.
For this crowd, you might like my (not my own, but where I joined) instance: lemmy.sdf.org
For this crowd, you might like my (not my own, but where I joined) instance: lemmy.sdf.org
I used RIF. When that shut down I started checking in on my various accounts much less often. Multiple of my 500k+ user subreddits have been banned for being unmoderated since then. Ah well.
You can make RIF work again using vanced. You create your own api key and swap it in to the apk and then it works again.
Does it work now? When I tried that a couple of months ago it was broken.
I use it all the time now.
If you want NSFW to work, you need to be a mod of a subreddit. Any sub, even one you make yourself with no posts ever.
If you want NSFW to work, you need to be a mod of a subreddit. Any sub, even one you make yourself with no posts ever.
I'm using Vanced-RIF rn, it works fine most of time but has some small problems (e.g. if you open a Reddit link in a comment, it would crash).
I don't know if RIF-vanced still gets any "updates" to fix these minor issues? I assume not, but never checked.
I don't know if RIF-vanced still gets any "updates" to fix these minor issues? I assume not, but never checked.
Largely the same here. Feel like I noticed a further decline in quality on the site after that happened too. It is useful for news aggregation but I don't like the discussion as much. But that could just be the trend continuing.
I noticed the "eternal September" happening in years prior, as Reddit became more acceptable to the wider public and as a smartphone app rather than a forum host mostly for techies.
And with those "normies" came the low-effort posts that totally ignored things like stickied posts, subreddit rules, and the overall culture of the community (or site.) Take a look at /r/roms, for example. The sidebar, the top announcement sticky, the rules, and the automod on every single post says "here is where they are" and what is most of the subreddit? "How do I find game" - same thing for BuildaPC, or Tech Support, or Linux.
Then the mods have to remove the low effort posts and get called names, or they get upset that the resources they've taken time to make available to the community are ignored for the 500th time and blow up, just to get called more names or even censured by the admins.
The only way to win is to not play. And that's why I use a combination of HN and an RSS reader now.
And with those "normies" came the low-effort posts that totally ignored things like stickied posts, subreddit rules, and the overall culture of the community (or site.) Take a look at /r/roms, for example. The sidebar, the top announcement sticky, the rules, and the automod on every single post says "here is where they are" and what is most of the subreddit? "How do I find game" - same thing for BuildaPC, or Tech Support, or Linux.
Then the mods have to remove the low effort posts and get called names, or they get upset that the resources they've taken time to make available to the community are ignored for the 500th time and blow up, just to get called more names or even censured by the admins.
The only way to win is to not play. And that's why I use a combination of HN and an RSS reader now.
It definitely started years ago, probably around the time I really started using it. I visit /r/games sometimes and they have stickies around what you have been playing or game suggestions and without fail someone doesn't even read the topic at hand and just posts a random question.
Apps were mostly bad at showing sidebars too, they wanted to streamline the main view. They were there but I think a lot of users didn't know.
Anecdotally I seem to notice a trend on how grammatical/spelling corrections are received. If people generally accept them in good grace as a chance to improve, discussion quality can be decent. If they take it as a personal attack, or other people pile on (often with the classic "no one cares") ... well that's Reddit these days usually.
Apps were mostly bad at showing sidebars too, they wanted to streamline the main view. They were there but I think a lot of users didn't know.
Anecdotally I seem to notice a trend on how grammatical/spelling corrections are received. If people generally accept them in good grace as a chance to improve, discussion quality can be decent. If they take it as a personal attack, or other people pile on (often with the classic "no one cares") ... well that's Reddit these days usually.
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i use old.reddit on both desktop and mobile. if they ever break that i'm gone.
I switched to Winston. Not as great as Apollo but doesn't require you to side load.
> when Steve came back in 2015, I knew the world was in for a surprise.
> If Reddit could grow to the size it had with management that was harmless at best, what could it do if Steve came back? We now know the answer to that question. Or at least a lower bound on the answer. Steve is not out of ideas yet.
Does anybody know what "ideas" he's talking about? When I think back to recent developments at Reddit, all that comes to mind is the 3rd-party app fiasco and the "collectible avatars" and "Moons"/"community points" nobody but crypto speculators wanted anything to do with (and are now dead). Oh, and the death of celebrity AMAs after they fired Victoria.
> If Reddit could grow to the size it had with management that was harmless at best, what could it do if Steve came back? We now know the answer to that question. Or at least a lower bound on the answer. Steve is not out of ideas yet.
Does anybody know what "ideas" he's talking about? When I think back to recent developments at Reddit, all that comes to mind is the 3rd-party app fiasco and the "collectible avatars" and "Moons"/"community points" nobody but crypto speculators wanted anything to do with (and are now dead). Oh, and the death of celebrity AMAs after they fired Victoria.
That's the issue. The thing that made them worthwhile was a very basic set of functionality. Every single other feature they've tried to add was poorly implemented and not picked up by users.
It just doesn't make sense as a business. You don't need a million devs to run a forum site, you need them to add more and more bloat to convince investors you're growing.
All they have done is pushed ads harder. That is all they really have to offer.
It just doesn't make sense as a business. You don't need a million devs to run a forum site, you need them to add more and more bloat to convince investors you're growing.
All they have done is pushed ads harder. That is all they really have to offer.
I rarely use it now because of the web front end. Yeah old.reddit.com and plugins to redirect to it help a bit.
Also why on earth would I want to use an app instead of a web browser for a site that lists wen links. Oh yeah they stopped making the site about links and more about internal content.
It really is a pile of shit compared to what it used to be.
It really is a pile of shit compared to what it used to be.
Reddit is the forum to end all forums, with a spice of imageboards.
And it is ad-supported. People who have partaken in small PHPbb style forums probably can tell the story - moderation and bandwidth cost time.
That's all, a simple, dumb business model based on advertising and market share, or better: mind share.
The last part is Reddit's moat, no more, no less.
My 2 cents.
And it is ad-supported. People who have partaken in small PHPbb style forums probably can tell the story - moderation and bandwidth cost time.
That's all, a simple, dumb business model based on advertising and market share, or better: mind share.
The last part is Reddit's moat, no more, no less.
My 2 cents.
They are growing every year.
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1309791/reddit-mau-worldw...
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1309791/reddit-mau-worldw...
And they still have one of the worst apps (and website) in the game. Seems like that would be some low-hanging fruit.
i still use the old version on web and it works great
i agree the new version is very busy and buggy on mobile web
i agree the new version is very busy and buggy on mobile web
Yeah, I have Old Reddit redirect on all of my devices, and I won't touch the official app with a ten foot pole.
Never got the complaints with the official app. What's the issue?
Last time I asked someone this question they mentioned some power user stuff that didn't really apply to regular Reddit content consumers / casual posters.
Last time I asked someone this question they mentioned some power user stuff that didn't really apply to regular Reddit content consumers / casual posters.
imo it's just unnecessarily busy and can be buggy. if you spend some time using the old web version, which feels very HN like, you'll wonder why you'd ever use the new one.
the app is absolute trash and the new.reddit is almost as bad. if they remove old i'm out
Ah, but I would guess those are low quality users, i.e. they don't vote, they don't comment, they don't post. While that doesn't matter to advertisers, it does matter to the health of your content network. And their features have had zero positive effects on their community health.
You can run an ad on a subway and get more users. That doesn't mean you're doing a good job. The only reason those users have something to see is because of community health.
You can run an ad on a subway and get more users. That doesn't mean you're doing a good job. The only reason those users have something to see is because of community health.
I would guess they're no different to any other users in the past decade. In other words a percentage will comment and a small percentage will post.
It's always been that way.
It's always been that way.
LLM's-at-home are in a vastly different place than they were 10, 5, or even 2 years ago, so I'm not sure the assumptions about typical traffic from then hold true now.
What are you basing this on?
Now show us the percentage of those that are real people and not bots, and the number of accounts that are from previously banned users. I mean heck I've gotten to the point where I can only go 2 or 3 months before my account gets banned and then I have to spin up a new one.
Come to think of it that might be a reason why their ban happy, more people you ban who come back looks like a new user signup.
Come to think of it that might be a reason why their ban happy, more people you ban who come back looks like a new user signup.
> I mean heck I've gotten to the point where I can only go 2 or 3 months before my account gets banned and then I have to spin up a new one.
User error.
It's really not hard to not get banned. Site-wide, at least.
I'm pretty active and my account is nearly 13 years old.
User error.
It's really not hard to not get banned. Site-wide, at least.
I'm pretty active and my account is nearly 13 years old.
Pretty easy if you have no controversial opinions.
This reeks of "Oh you know the ones"
https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/105039166355267174...
Conservative: I have been censored for my conservative views
Me: Holy shit! You were censored for wanting lower taxes?
Con: LOL no...no not those views
Me: So....deregulation?
Con: Haha no not those views either
Me: Which views, exactly?
Con: Oh, you know the ones
https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/105039166355267174...
Conservative: I have been censored for my conservative views
Me: Holy shit! You were censored for wanting lower taxes?
Con: LOL no...no not those views
Me: So....deregulation?
Con: Haha no not those views either
Me: Which views, exactly?
Con: Oh, you know the ones
If you must know some reasons I got banned is horrible awful terrible evil opinions such as
- suggesting that COVID-19 was the result of a lab leak due to not following safety protocols
- Questioning if the full shutdown of schools for a disease which had a relatively low mortality rate in children was the best decisio and if we fully had considered the impacts.
- suggesting that predators could abuse gender self identification laws to gain access to new victims.
- and one satirical posts advocating "let us grill it all in a beautiful nuclear inferno."
It seems though you are suggesting there are only a narrowly defined opinions that are acceptable to hold and that deviations outside of those are so heretical that should not be allowed to exist.
- suggesting that COVID-19 was the result of a lab leak due to not following safety protocols
- Questioning if the full shutdown of schools for a disease which had a relatively low mortality rate in children was the best decisio and if we fully had considered the impacts.
- suggesting that predators could abuse gender self identification laws to gain access to new victims.
- and one satirical posts advocating "let us grill it all in a beautiful nuclear inferno."
It seems though you are suggesting there are only a narrowly defined opinions that are acceptable to hold and that deviations outside of those are so heretical that should not be allowed to exist.
Were you getting banned site-wide for expressing those opinions? Or just banned from specific subs?
Only admins can ban you site-wide or shadowban you, and I can't imagine expressing any of those opinions being worthy of a site-wide ban from an admin unless you expressed them in an offensive way. ie, for the first opinion, using a slur when referring to the Chinese lab workers, or basically in any way accusing them of poor standards because they're Chinese. Likewise, for the third opinion, I've too often seen transphobia get disguised as concern trolling.
If it's moderators banning you from specific subs...well...that's just shitty moderators. Some of them are extremely power-hungry and ban happy, but they're not employees of reddit, and their actions should not be reflected on reddit as a whole.
Only admins can ban you site-wide or shadowban you, and I can't imagine expressing any of those opinions being worthy of a site-wide ban from an admin unless you expressed them in an offensive way. ie, for the first opinion, using a slur when referring to the Chinese lab workers, or basically in any way accusing them of poor standards because they're Chinese. Likewise, for the third opinion, I've too often seen transphobia get disguised as concern trolling.
If it's moderators banning you from specific subs...well...that's just shitty moderators. Some of them are extremely power-hungry and ban happy, but they're not employees of reddit, and their actions should not be reflected on reddit as a whole.
There is a blog post describing the criminal history of a particular mod. If you post that link on Reddit you are automatically banned.
That growth is predicated on a feature set that has been more or less untouched for over a decade. That core feature set is still very good.
I've seen no evidence that anything they've introduced in the last 10 years has contributed to any of that growth, and my evidence is that just about every feature announced or implemented since then is now either gone or largely ignored by the userbase.
I've seen no evidence that anything they've introduced in the last 10 years has contributed to any of that growth, and my evidence is that just about every feature announced or implemented since then is now either gone or largely ignored by the userbase.
There is nothing special about Reddit unless you mean Reddit was in the right place and the right time to establish a two-sided market.
It's very hard to kill a two-sided market when it gets established. Look at Craigslist or Twitter.
An interesting thing about Reddit to me is many people who look at it see strongly offputting things like being overrun by image memes but when you look at it closely there is so much there about so many subjects. From time to time you find those brilliant social media posts that remind me of some of the emails from the Enron Emails data set where people talk about what they did for training in the army. Perhaps that is what keeps people coming back or maybe they are all about the memes.
It's very hard to kill a two-sided market when it gets established. Look at Craigslist or Twitter.
An interesting thing about Reddit to me is many people who look at it see strongly offputting things like being overrun by image memes but when you look at it closely there is so much there about so many subjects. From time to time you find those brilliant social media posts that remind me of some of the emails from the Enron Emails data set where people talk about what they did for training in the army. Perhaps that is what keeps people coming back or maybe they are all about the memes.
I firmly believe that niche content like what you mention is the life-blood of the site, and the biggest contributor to it's longevity. People come for the memes, but they stay for the litany of small communities that cater to their very specific tastes
The fact that people often append "reddit" to their Google queries is a testament to this. Even if they aren't active participants in these niche communities, they know that they are the easiest place to find reasonably reliable information from other humans on them.
If these types of communities stop flourishing on Reddit for any reason, then the site will become much easier to replace by any other generic meme factory.
The fact that people often append "reddit" to their Google queries is a testament to this. Even if they aren't active participants in these niche communities, they know that they are the easiest place to find reasonably reliable information from other humans on them.
If these types of communities stop flourishing on Reddit for any reason, then the site will become much easier to replace by any other generic meme factory.
Even the overhauled UI has gone ignored by many users, thanks to the old UI remaining available as an option, but I imagine it's only a matter of time before they pull the plug on that so they can "enhance the sponsored post viewing experience".
I have no evidence for this, but my hunch is that an inconsequentially-small percentage of Reddit users go out of their way to use Reddit’s old UI.
Those users are disproportionately mods and active users though. Reddit can't easily do away with it.
They considered this around the 3rd party app fiasco and it was clear old Reddit has a few years left because mods allhate the new Reddit UI
They considered this around the 3rd party app fiasco and it was clear old Reddit has a few years left because mods allhate the new Reddit UI
Yes but what percent of active posters use it? It's going to be much higher and the site will die without new content.
Interesting, I used to be a member of the French community which peaked around 2017/2018 and kept decreasing ever since. I wouldn't say it's a ghost town now but it became a minor forum.
I guess they grew in other countries.
I guess they grew in other countries.
Getting drunk and editing production database to delete mean comments is certainly innovative CEO behavior.
Hah, I saw this:
Steve was not a big fan of authority, so he also liked the idea of a site without editors.
Sometimes, those who are most vocal against authority, are projecting their own potential misuse of authority onto others, unable to see someone wielding power differently.
The controversy around this one was always wild to me.
Mods editing comments was the most standard behavior on every phpbb/vb board I grew up on.
His edits were clearly edited, clearly jokes, and TBH I found them pretty funny. And people were *outraged* that he had the capacity and the temerity to edit their sacrosanct posts...
I took it as a sign of the changing times
Mods editing comments was the most standard behavior on every phpbb/vb board I grew up on.
His edits were clearly edited, clearly jokes, and TBH I found them pretty funny. And people were *outraged* that he had the capacity and the temerity to edit their sacrosanct posts...
I took it as a sign of the changing times
It’s an abuse of power, that’s why. It doesn’t matter if it is or isn’t funny or if anybody was harmed, the act itself was improper for any engineer dealing with other peoples data and egregious lack of judgement by a CEO.
Yeah this is the changing times I was talking about
The thing is, when the mods would troll the hell out of users on the old BB's, they were doing it all the time, it was part of the culture. It happening on reddit, where a user's posts were thought to be immutable caused very understandable outrage.
And people want to invest in this IPO? Seems like two trains moving towards each other but can’t tell if they are on the same track yet
There is only one set of tracks.
But everything is fine, you can just go swap places with any passenger if you want.
But everything is fine, you can just go swap places with any passenger if you want.
You’d have to be a total moron, but if there’s one thing I learned from Reddit it’s that there are far more morons out there than I realized.
* Editing people’s comments critical of him.
Reddit founders made hundreds of fake profiles so site looked popular:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/reddi...
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/reddi...
Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-W0CBOGnnI
I always wondered if they continued this behavior while GPT and ML started picking up. I saw a lot of suspicious posts especially around bitcoin and crypto related subreddits start around 2013. This massively increased with the_donald and trump running for office. Covid and the disinformation policies seemed like a way to cause divisiveness and attract viewers to the site while providing a reason to cull some bots (whether internal or external). The API change and the resulting moderator backlash seemed manufactured to provide management a reason to purge moderators and more accounts. Now they have plausible deniability when people claim Reddit is the dead internet, full of AI bots. Because now their user count isn’t heavily tilted towards fake profiles (which would need to be disclosed in an IPo)
Just my conspiracy theory of the day
Just my conspiracy theory of the day
Relevant: “Containment Control for a Social Network with State-Dependent Connectivity” (2014), Air Force Research Laboratory, Eglin AFB: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf
…a.k.a Reddit's "Most-Addicted City" of 2013: https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.reddit...
…a.k.a Reddit's "Most-Addicted City" of 2013: https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.reddit...
I think he's talking about Yishan Wong and Ellen Pao. BTW, true or not, that's a hell of a way to refer to them, respectively.
I guess it was unclear, I meant what's improved at Reddit since spez's return?
As far as I can tell it's gotten worse from a user perspective.
Honestly neglect sounds more like the pre-Yishan era where Reddit was effectively a few people in the metaphorical corner of a conde nast office.
Those are the ideas that he's talking about. Paul Graham is a dinosaur. He thinks that spez's rampant monetization is a great idea, despite the fact that it has outraged the community that gives Reddit any power at all.
Perhaps that's the meaning of "almost unkillable": Look at how much room there is to enshitify without losing all the users!
Unfortunately, yes. A throw away quote at the bottom of one of the many articles during the API protest that was ignored by most:
“I would like subreddits to be able to be businesses if they choose,” Huffman said, adding that’s “another conversation, but I think that’s the next frontier of Reddit.”
Edit: here is the story. I changed "he" to "Huffman" since I took the quote out of context of the full story. It's way down almost at the end. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-protest-blacko...
“I would like subreddits to be able to be businesses if they choose,” Huffman said, adding that’s “another conversation, but I think that’s the next frontier of Reddit.”
Edit: here is the story. I changed "he" to "Huffman" since I took the quote out of context of the full story. It's way down almost at the end. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-protest-blacko...
Oh. Oh, no.
pg is just trying to use his audience to drum up interest in the reddit IPO.
Reddit has nothing to offer investors but Paul needs a return so he's trying to make sure someone else ends up holding the bags.
Reddit has nothing to offer investors but Paul needs a return so he's trying to make sure someone else ends up holding the bags.
Astonished people don't see the link with the timing.
I wouldn't blame much the firing of victoria, Woody Harrelson became a mock point when he did not confront some allegations made to him on the site. Which, sure, bad, but also, why would you risk going to a website to answer serious allegations? seems a huge risk to even go there.
Didn’t Rampart predate Victoria?
- victoria sacked 2015
- ama was 2012
So, It did, either way, victoria being there would not prevent a PR disaster. because that would require censoring.
So, It did, either way, victoria being there would not prevent a PR disaster. because that would require censoring.
Reddit IPO'd today and the purpose of this piece is to add whatever hype can be added to that IPO so that PG and other early investors can maximize their return, and then likely, slowly and carefully unload their positions into the public and other investors who will be the bag holders when the price inevitably declines over time.
The "idea" is "make PG even more money", and that's a great idea if you're PG.
The "idea" is "make PG even more money", and that's a great idea if you're PG.
> Reddit IPO'd today and the purpose of this piece is to add whatever hype can be added to that IPO
To PG's credit, he has an uncanny ability to pluck out relentlessly resourceful founders (self-fulfilling prophecy and all that, notwithstanding) who have greater chances of outsized success. And he's been more right about startups than almost anyone else. When he praises those founders, it often comes off as an exaggeration, but I am convinced he is being thoroughly honest.
To PG's credit, he has an uncanny ability to pluck out relentlessly resourceful founders (self-fulfilling prophecy and all that, notwithstanding) who have greater chances of outsized success. And he's been more right about startups than almost anyone else. When he praises those founders, it often comes off as an exaggeration, but I am convinced he is being thoroughly honest.
"As someone who went through YC and met PG while he was still actively running it, I can tell you that at least in our batch he was 100% spot on about who was going to do well. He had a tendency to spend his free time with the same individuals who ended up doing phenomenally well. It would be easy to be dismissive about this and say something about doubling down on his best investments, etc. But during our batch many of those companies had not yet become the clear cut winners that they are today, and instead only turned into them a year or so down the road.">He had a tendency to spend his free time with the same individuals who ended up doing phenomenally well.
There's a causal relationship here, but it's not obvious what direction it points.
There's a causal relationship here, but it's not obvious what direction it points.
If this guy is not only able pick successful people to spend time with, but to make people successful by the very act of spending time with them, he must be some kind of god.
TBH the obvious conclusion of the causal relationship seems more likely than what you are implying.
TBH the obvious conclusion of the causal relationship seems more likely than what you are implying.
Money begets money is more of the lesson I think.
Find and support people likely to succeed? That's standard operating procedure for VCs.
Didn’t they already unload when they sold to Condé Nast? Or did PG partake in the re-acquisition?
Wow, that was fast. Just recently I got the "hey you have a shitton of karma - do you want to be in the IPO" notification. Before I even dug in, it's public…
I’d be fascinated to know if he uses old.reddit in private
Not to mention Steve editing users' posts, Ellen Pao being in the same social circle as Epstein, Maxwellhill conspicuously going silent when Ghislaine Maxwell was arrested, promising and then failing to deliver on direct user funding and adrev sharing, and flatly ignoring user feedback for the better part of a decade.
What is this "Maxwellhill" thing refer to? I vaguely recognize the username as an old reddit powermod, is the implication that reddit power users are involved in human trafficking?
There's a theory that account belong to Ghislaine herself. I'm personally uninterested.
I'm uninterested inasfar as her having a reddit profile and posting things. I'm much more interested as to why reddit inc refuses to answer the simple quandary that many people have as to if she was behind the account in question or not.
They more or less Streisand'd the conspiracy into plausibility by doing so, which is generally a bad idea. That's the reason I included it.
They more or less Streisand'd the conspiracy into plausibility by doing so, which is generally a bad idea. That's the reason I included it.
I think the connection between u/maxwellhill and Ghislaine Maxwell is dubious. The account is named after the town Maxwell Hill in Malaysia, and they had posted in Malaysian subreddits years before any of these theories came out. It seems more likely to me that the similar names are a coincidence and that the account owner quite reasonably stopped using the account when they became suspected of being involved in a major international conspiracy.
Didn’t they only become suspect, because they stopped posting at the exact time Ghislaine was arrested?
All they have to do is post once since she’s been locked up and yet they don’t…
Maybe they died.
No idea either. They haven't changed much in years.
They added a chat application, so you can get daily spam from onlyfans promoters, or cryptocurrency schills, before you get so annoyed you disable it.
While I still use Reddit often I kind of hope this marks the decline and something new emerges. Pretty much anything and everything their army of devs have built over the past 5+ years has been anti user. I can't even remember the last time a positive new feature was added. (This also kind of feels broadly true for the majority of the consumer apps in recent years -- remember the 2010's when devs actually added new features for users to apps on a regular basis?)
There are countless things I assumed would have been fixed years and years ago that never have been. For example the trash search engine where you are better off using google with site:reddit.com. I do wonder if it's incompetence or intentional.
Would love to see something in a vein similar to what BlueSky is attempting with twitter clone for reddit. Have a lot of ideas in this area lately.
There are countless things I assumed would have been fixed years and years ago that never have been. For example the trash search engine where you are better off using google with site:reddit.com. I do wonder if it's incompetence or intentional.
Would love to see something in a vein similar to what BlueSky is attempting with twitter clone for reddit. Have a lot of ideas in this area lately.
> Pretty much anything and everything their army of devs have built over the past 5+ years has been anti user.
That's because you're a power user.
Reddit owners figured out that even though the service gained popularity as a middle ground between 4chan and Facebook, they can make most money if they kick out weirdos and cater to general audience, so they're consistently making changes to make it appealing to average Joe. You can clearly notice how they're slowly but surely removing controversial content and promoting userbase growth over everything else.
My prediction is that Reddit will keep growing, but it's simply going to be "Facebook, but for people 15 years younger".
That's because you're a power user.
Reddit owners figured out that even though the service gained popularity as a middle ground between 4chan and Facebook, they can make most money if they kick out weirdos and cater to general audience, so they're consistently making changes to make it appealing to average Joe. You can clearly notice how they're slowly but surely removing controversial content and promoting userbase growth over everything else.
My prediction is that Reddit will keep growing, but it's simply going to be "Facebook, but for people 15 years younger".
What are some example "general audience" features added these last 5 years?
- Realtime chat
- Design that is much less customizable via userscripts/CSS
- More emphasis on users rather than communities (enhancements to user pages, profile pictures that are displayed in comments)
- Garbage native media hosting alongside worse handling of offsite (youtube/imgur) media hosting
- Inline gifs in comments
- Algorithms that emphasize clickbait
- Algorithms that try to guess what you want to see rather than letting you tell it what you want to see
- Suppression of content deemed unsavory by advertisers
- Emphasis on mobile design over desktop design
- Backward incompatible changes
- Design that is much less customizable via userscripts/CSS
- More emphasis on users rather than communities (enhancements to user pages, profile pictures that are displayed in comments)
- Garbage native media hosting alongside worse handling of offsite (youtube/imgur) media hosting
- Inline gifs in comments
- Algorithms that emphasize clickbait
- Algorithms that try to guess what you want to see rather than letting you tell it what you want to see
- Suppression of content deemed unsavory by advertisers
- Emphasis on mobile design over desktop design
- Backward incompatible changes
[deleted]
So, the userbase is increasing? Because those "15 years younger" are already on other platforms shaking their donkey.
Sounds like a great meeting summary but did it yield results?
Sounds like a great meeting summary but did it yield results?
Tons of mod tools built on top of shadow comment removals: crowd control, comment nuke, disruptive comment collapsing, contributor quality score, subreddit shadow bans via automoderator ...
Check your account here [1], you probably have removed comments you don't know about. Or comment here [2] to see how it works.
[1] https://www.reveddit.com
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/about/sticky
Check your account here [1], you probably have removed comments you don't know about. Or comment here [2] to see how it works.
[1] https://www.reveddit.com
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/about/sticky
That obnoxious FB feed style ui they try to force you to use.
dark mode
> remember the 2010's when devs actually added new features for users to apps on a regular basis
I am completely off the update treadmill.
Does Firefox need to be continuously adding features "for the users"?
I kind of like that their privacy efforts have been trimming back unnecessary features, at least from 3P hosts.
I kind of like that their privacy efforts have been trimming back unnecessary features, at least from 3P hosts.
Honestly, most apps shouldn’t be “adding features.” Simply because of what OP said: the new features are almost always anti-user. Most applications I use today are either as good as or worse than the apps were in 2014. Developers throughout the industry have been furiously developing for ten years and we’re not making anything better.
Lemmy is to reddit as blue sky is to Twitter and both run on Activity pub, IIRC.
Mastodon instead of Bluesky and you've got it, I think. (Bluesky has its own protocol.)
I've really fallen in love with mastodon.
I follow a whole bunch of developers, artists and some writers. It's such a breath of fresh air compared to what twitter ended up being.
I follow a whole bunch of developers, artists and some writers. It's such a breath of fresh air compared to what twitter ended up being.
Yes it does. Bluesky uses the AtProtocol.
Interestingly enough the best kind of development I see happening in the public sector in Australia. For example both the official Bureau of Meteorology weather app and the general car rego / council matter app get regular worthwhile improvements. With actual meaningful changelogs in the play store updates. None of that stupid "bug fixes and performance improvements" bullshit that every other popular app puts in there.
Still boggles my mind at times.
Still boggles my mind at times.
At least they let you keep the old web interface, instead of forcing the new stuff on you.
You have to wonder how long this will last, especially now that they're public.
One day, they'll need to squeeze a few extra percentage of revenue to meet their quarterly target and decide that dropping old.reddit.com will move enough people to their revenue optimized new page to get there.
Or there will be a breaking change in the API and they'll decide they don't want to bother supporting the old one anymore.
In any case, the days of old.reddit.com are counted. I already stopped using Reddit on my phone after they shut down third party app. Just waiting on old reddit to disappear to finally say goodbye to this website
One day, they'll need to squeeze a few extra percentage of revenue to meet their quarterly target and decide that dropping old.reddit.com will move enough people to their revenue optimized new page to get there.
Or there will be a breaking change in the API and they'll decide they don't want to bother supporting the old one anymore.
In any case, the days of old.reddit.com are counted. I already stopped using Reddit on my phone after they shut down third party app. Just waiting on old reddit to disappear to finally say goodbye to this website
You have to wonder how long this will last, especially now that they're public.
One day, they'll need to squeeze a few extra percentage of revenue to meet their quarterly target and decide that dropping old.reddit.com will move enough people to their revenue optimized new page to get there.
Or there will be a breaking change in the API and they'll decide they don't want to bother supporting the old one anymore.
In any case, the days of old.reddit.com are counted. I already stopped using Reddit on my phone after they shut down third party app. Just waiting on old reddit to disappear to finally say goodbye to this website
One day, they'll need to squeeze a few extra percentage of revenue to meet their quarterly target and decide that dropping old.reddit.com will move enough people to their revenue optimized new page to get there.
Or there will be a breaking change in the API and they'll decide they don't want to bother supporting the old one anymore.
In any case, the days of old.reddit.com are counted. I already stopped using Reddit on my phone after they shut down third party app. Just waiting on old reddit to disappear to finally say goodbye to this website
Reddit killed off the former mobile (i.reddit.com) interface, however. Amongst other uses, that was great in terminal browser clients.
Building an actually successful business is the most pro-user thing any company can do.
It's not fundamental, it's a glorified forum host, not to say that isn't immensely useful in the current landscape. But it's also very much a result of timing that it is still here.
The history is often overlooked: when digg imploded/shot itself in the foot, Reddit was in the right place at the right time and got lucky. Somewhere for the exodus to go to. Reddit itself was failing fast and on its last legs at the time held afloat by its core users and that's it. They didn't know what they were going to do and rather than being visionaries in any way really they got lucky hosting everyone with a slew of very standard web 2.0 features. And as with any social site, it's the userbase/community that pulls it thru darkness to the where it is now.
The history is often overlooked: when digg imploded/shot itself in the foot, Reddit was in the right place at the right time and got lucky. Somewhere for the exodus to go to. Reddit itself was failing fast and on its last legs at the time held afloat by its core users and that's it. They didn't know what they were going to do and rather than being visionaries in any way really they got lucky hosting everyone with a slew of very standard web 2.0 features. And as with any social site, it's the userbase/community that pulls it thru darkness to the where it is now.
This is true, and I was a "Digg refugee" who went to Reddit after the Digg 4.0 fiasco. But nearly all successful businesses have a huge amount of lucky timing. Reddit also had the nimbleness to capitalize on Digg's failure. I remember reading a blog post years back about how they were able to do things really quickly (I think the post was about how they changed their alien logo in like a day to something welcoming Digg folks) because they were a small startup back then.
Absolutely true. Reddit's true success started when Digg failed (remember MrBabyMan??)
Digg -> Reddit -> ?
MySpace -> Facebook -> ?
Yahoo -> Google -> LLM?
MySpace -> Facebook -> ?
Yahoo -> Google -> LLM?
Digg -> Reddit -> Discord
MySpace -> Facebook -> Instagram/Tiktok
Yahoo -> Google -> LLM
I don't like these developments, but they seem like likely candidates.
MySpace -> Facebook -> Instagram/Tiktok
Yahoo -> Google -> LLM
I don't like these developments, but they seem like likely candidates.
I'm curious why you think, Discord is the replacement for Reddit?
Feel like they server different purposes.
Feel like they server different purposes.
They function differently, but in terms of what gets communities to actually form and stick around, I think they're very similar:
- Making a new space for your community is trivial for anyone; it can be done in seconds with a few clicks and all you have to do is choose a name.
- Many people already have an account, so you don't need to convince everyone to sign up for a new platform. (Which scales with the platform's size, like all network effects.)
- Communities have their own space they can adjust to their liking, rather than being a vague cluster of nodes with a similar interest like in other social networks.
- Owners of those spaces have a lot of leeway to run things as they see fit.
Personally, I don't like the growing trend of every community being a Discord server that is going to collect dust in the corner of my chat window unless I commit to keeping up with it every day, but I understand why it's happening. Discord is an adequate social hub for any project or hobby group with a very low barrier to entry, which is more important than the actual functionality being the best IMO.
- Making a new space for your community is trivial for anyone; it can be done in seconds with a few clicks and all you have to do is choose a name.
- Many people already have an account, so you don't need to convince everyone to sign up for a new platform. (Which scales with the platform's size, like all network effects.)
- Communities have their own space they can adjust to their liking, rather than being a vague cluster of nodes with a similar interest like in other social networks.
- Owners of those spaces have a lot of leeway to run things as they see fit.
Personally, I don't like the growing trend of every community being a Discord server that is going to collect dust in the corner of my chat window unless I commit to keeping up with it every day, but I understand why it's happening. Discord is an adequate social hub for any project or hobby group with a very low barrier to entry, which is more important than the actual functionality being the best IMO.
I think that while Reddit's primary use is link aggregation, there's a secondary use for getting really niche questions answered by members of niche communities.For example, I have questions and answers on subs like r/powershell & r/xcode that still get replies years later because they solve a very specific problem.
A lot of communities are choosing Discord for their homebase location rather than Reddit, which really bums me out because I'm not a huge fan of public Discord servers and I miss seeing the posts from all the niche communities I'm in aggregated somewhere.
A lot of communities are choosing Discord for their homebase location rather than Reddit, which really bums me out because I'm not a huge fan of public Discord servers and I miss seeing the posts from all the niche communities I'm in aggregated somewhere.
They might have once but every sub Reddit has at least one, “join my discord server” post a day it seems. People just want browser based BBS but weren’t alive when they were at their best.
Far easier to manage a focused community, disseminate information rapidly, maintain a history of information.
For example im currently playing though a mod pack for a game more that 20 years old; post about it on reddit and you get nothing; post on the discord and 30-40 active people will quickly get you the info you need.
Search reddit for info (using google because reddit search has never and will never work) You'll end up with post after post of [Deleted]. Its beyond useless.
For example im currently playing though a mod pack for a game more that 20 years old; post about it on reddit and you get nothing; post on the discord and 30-40 active people will quickly get you the info you need.
Search reddit for info (using google because reddit search has never and will never work) You'll end up with post after post of [Deleted]. Its beyond useless.
Maybe federated networks will catch on
digg followed StumbleUpon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StumbleUpon). StumbleUpon was the source of the vast majority of digg and reddit content before people like Randall Monroe were making high quality comments on reddit. Once every reddit post had a literal expert respond with high quality comments, it dominated the others and content began to be posted on reddit first, rather than the content being found on stumbleupon or digg and ending up on reddit. Eventually things like askreddit became popular and community style content flourished.
Friendster > Myspace
> Yahoo -> Google -> LLM?
Yahoo -> Google -> OpenAI -> Microsoft.
LLM is a tech stack, not a company.
I added MS at the end because OpenAI brought it to forefront of the current wave of computing revolution.
Yahoo -> Google -> OpenAI -> Microsoft.
LLM is a tech stack, not a company.
I added MS at the end because OpenAI brought it to forefront of the current wave of computing revolution.
Besides general luck and timing, there are two other factors reddit had going for it.
1) It was never the hot social media site, and still to this day it's a dark horse with even some of my peers not "getting it." We're finally seeing it get the user base and mass market usage of other social media platforms. But it's been an extraordinarily long process. So it was never a hot place to work that attracted product managers / MBAs / status seekers that would come in and META the site. And I think even the investors and/or owners didn't know what to do with it, and were kinda content to just ignore it and let it do it's thing.
2) General incompetence. Search broken for decades. Videos broken for decades. Limited features for decades. Inability to make a native app that's usable. Not to say that I mind the UI of old.reddit.com. But that the Reddit team moved so slow to do anything. The only time the acted with expedience was when controversies occurred. Yeah, they're finally rolling out new stuff, but it's only been in the past 2-3 years that dev on the platform has picked up.
But the thing is, this is the REASON Reddit has become as important as it is. A "competent" startup would of enshitified reddit and it would of died 15 years ago. Just like Digg. Instead we got almost a decade where the site looked like the frontpage of hackernews. And in that time, users kept creating high quality text content. And that content brought other users. And it slowly snowballed to the point where reddit is now the place to get genuine human text content on any topic. This is not something that could of occurred in the sort of time frame most startups or VCs operate in. And now they're trying to play a game that doesn't exist anymore (social media in the 2010s), and destroying the site with bad UI, hostility to the primary content creators, changes to the algorithm to prioritize engagement vs. nurturing quality content. It's sad, but I'm happy Reddit existed for as long as it did.
1) It was never the hot social media site, and still to this day it's a dark horse with even some of my peers not "getting it." We're finally seeing it get the user base and mass market usage of other social media platforms. But it's been an extraordinarily long process. So it was never a hot place to work that attracted product managers / MBAs / status seekers that would come in and META the site. And I think even the investors and/or owners didn't know what to do with it, and were kinda content to just ignore it and let it do it's thing.
2) General incompetence. Search broken for decades. Videos broken for decades. Limited features for decades. Inability to make a native app that's usable. Not to say that I mind the UI of old.reddit.com. But that the Reddit team moved so slow to do anything. The only time the acted with expedience was when controversies occurred. Yeah, they're finally rolling out new stuff, but it's only been in the past 2-3 years that dev on the platform has picked up.
But the thing is, this is the REASON Reddit has become as important as it is. A "competent" startup would of enshitified reddit and it would of died 15 years ago. Just like Digg. Instead we got almost a decade where the site looked like the frontpage of hackernews. And in that time, users kept creating high quality text content. And that content brought other users. And it slowly snowballed to the point where reddit is now the place to get genuine human text content on any topic. This is not something that could of occurred in the sort of time frame most startups or VCs operate in. And now they're trying to play a game that doesn't exist anymore (social media in the 2010s), and destroying the site with bad UI, hostility to the primary content creators, changes to the algorithm to prioritize engagement vs. nurturing quality content. It's sad, but I'm happy Reddit existed for as long as it did.
> But that the Reddit team moved so slow to do anything
This is actually the killer feature that has made Reddit so successful - not much has changed and the content keeps coming in. Same reason HN has still continued to do well.
This is actually the killer feature that has made Reddit so successful - not much has changed and the content keeps coming in. Same reason HN has still continued to do well.
> And it slowly snowballed to the point where reddit is now the place to get genuine human text content on any topic.
That's what was interesting about the CEO's statement about their IPO, talking about how the future of Reddit is AI. Umm... I think what makes reddit great is you can actual get genuine humans discussing things they are passionate about. AI generated text seems like the opposite of this.
That's what was interesting about the CEO's statement about their IPO, talking about how the future of Reddit is AI. Umm... I think what makes reddit great is you can actual get genuine humans discussing things they are passionate about. AI generated text seems like the opposite of this.
I wouldn't read too much into that, every tech company wanting to IPO in 2024 has to satisfy clueless investors with talk about their AI strategy. If this was 15 years ago they would be talking about investing to 'harness the efficiencies of the cloud' or something...
I don't know, if you take a look at the Reddit discussion here you'll find a lot of people who look down on Reddit users. The very same people probably Google "search term reddit" to get anything useful, but think of redditors as peasants. They don't appreciate them. The founders seem like they are part of this self-perceived "landed gentry" and may very well do something stupid with AI.
Yeah, it's ironic that they're finally developing new stuff... and it's all absolute user-hostile garbage. My prediction is the IPO bombs hard and they're eventually sold off for scrap as training data for LLMs.
>A "competent" startup would of enshitified reddit and it would of died 15 years ago.
Germans have a saying for what Reddit has achieved here: "Falling up the stairs".
Germans have a saying for what Reddit has achieved here: "Falling up the stairs".
The new UI was awful. Recently, they made some changes that IMHO improved it quite substantially.
With a bit of work, it could be a good refresh of the original.
With a bit of work, it could be a good refresh of the original.
Although, in fairness, every business venture depends on timing to some degree. Good luck successfully getting a Google up and insanely profitable in 1900 or 2000. There are specific windows founders need to hit to find a market.
Curiously, eyeballing the search engine wiki page [0] for when the engines I know about started it looks like there was a window in the mid 90s (Yandex, Google, MSN Search -> Bing) and another one might have opened in 2010s (DDG, Bing #2, Yandex English).
People found these companies continuously, but there is a temporal component to when these companies take off.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine
Curiously, eyeballing the search engine wiki page [0] for when the engines I know about started it looks like there was a window in the mid 90s (Yandex, Google, MSN Search -> Bing) and another one might have opened in 2010s (DDG, Bing #2, Yandex English).
People found these companies continuously, but there is a temporal component to when these companies take off.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine
Exactly, the pure meritocracy bs is exactly that, bs. I realize that this isn't apparent to younger people necessarily. Reddit is cool but not exactly earth shattering technology. Luck was a huge factor in its success. I've been on reddit since 2005 FWIW.
> Their idea was bad though. And since we thought then that we were funding ideas rather than founders, we rejected them
> ... we wanted to fund Steve and Alexis, so if their idea was bad, they'd have to work on something else
> There needed to be something like del.icio.us/popular, but designed for sharing links instead of being a byproduct of saving them. So I called Steve and Alexis and said that we liked them, just not their idea, so we'd fund them if they'd work on something else.
So PG is saying the seminal idea behind Reddit wasn't even conceived by the original founders? If so, it's not clear to me the post's concluding sentence ('Steve is not out of ideas yet') offers much solace.
But I disagree that the idea responsible for Reddit's success is link-sharing. I think Reddit's success has a lot more to do with the ease of creating a dedicated discussion forum for any given topic simply by navigating to `reddit.com/r/[topic]`. Wikipedia already uses this approach for article creation, but there wasn't anything like that for discussion forums (in the US at least[1])
[1] Baidu Tieba preceded Reddit by 2 years, and Reddit is commonly referred to in China as the 'American Tieba' (e.g.: https://finance.sina.com.cn/roll/2024-03-21/doc-inapaxhk7062...)
> ... we wanted to fund Steve and Alexis, so if their idea was bad, they'd have to work on something else
> There needed to be something like del.icio.us/popular, but designed for sharing links instead of being a byproduct of saving them. So I called Steve and Alexis and said that we liked them, just not their idea, so we'd fund them if they'd work on something else.
So PG is saying the seminal idea behind Reddit wasn't even conceived by the original founders? If so, it's not clear to me the post's concluding sentence ('Steve is not out of ideas yet') offers much solace.
But I disagree that the idea responsible for Reddit's success is link-sharing. I think Reddit's success has a lot more to do with the ease of creating a dedicated discussion forum for any given topic simply by navigating to `reddit.com/r/[topic]`. Wikipedia already uses this approach for article creation, but there wasn't anything like that for discussion forums (in the US at least[1])
[1] Baidu Tieba preceded Reddit by 2 years, and Reddit is commonly referred to in China as the 'American Tieba' (e.g.: https://finance.sina.com.cn/roll/2024-03-21/doc-inapaxhk7062...)
I've always felt their success was being the first large network using both threaded comments and up and down voting for visibility.
That combination was killer, but also no longer unique.
That combination was killer, but also no longer unique.
Slashdot was way way earlier. Also massively overcomplex (metamoderation) and full of trolls and much narrower.
Reddit was basically Slashdot 4chan, in a meaningful sense.
Reddit was basically Slashdot 4chan, in a meaningful sense.
Metamoderation was an elegant way to handle slashdot scale, particularly given that they didn't have anything like subreddits. I suspect that partly kept it "narrow" - if you weren't into tech news or whatever, then you wouldn't enjoy slashdot. For a while there was a whole family of sites using the same codebase but with a different community feel, like Plastic and I think maybe K5?
I'd argue their success comes from making people think they're in an open discussion forum, or at least know when they're moderated, when in fact users get moderated left and right without their knowledge.
And rather than addressing that problem, with this IPO they've heaped on another one.
And rather than addressing that problem, with this IPO they've heaped on another one.
This story really drives home how being in the right place at the right time really makes a difference. They essentially made iteration 1 in three weeks and that set them down the path to success. May be the landscape has changed then but I cannot for the life of me imagine anything that could be made in three weeks today and have the effect that reddit had on the internet and the founder's lives. If there's reddit/uber/instagram for x/y/z it's already been done or someone with deeper pockets than you is doing it already. The current centre of attention (deserved or not) is Gen AI which is built on decades of hard research and very expensive compute. Start-ups still pop up but nothing like spin up a random site in three weeks and change the world.
You can incrementally delete your posts and interactions while backing them up. Once done, you can request your user data to verify that deletion has taken place, and then cancel the account.
https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite , this and other tools make it easy to manage.
Reddit has hamfistedly broken whatever value it once had as a platform for long form discussion, with the interesting and valuable fringe, hobbyist, and obscure niche forums having been banned or moderated into inane milquetoast. Now, its value seems primarily as a customer support resource for companies outside the US, or as a platform for attracting clicks on other platforms.
Reddit's going the way of MySpace. Unless you like burning money, this IPO is one to skip. All the things that made Reddit great, once, are gone now. There are no compelling reasons to use it; it's slow, intrusive, disrespectful to user privacy, performatively moralizing and preachy, caters to the worst sort of moderation and curation power dynamics, and serves no relevant purpose in the ecosystem of the modern internet. The best and only value of Reddit comes from older archives of scraped content now used as training data for AI.
https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite , this and other tools make it easy to manage.
Reddit has hamfistedly broken whatever value it once had as a platform for long form discussion, with the interesting and valuable fringe, hobbyist, and obscure niche forums having been banned or moderated into inane milquetoast. Now, its value seems primarily as a customer support resource for companies outside the US, or as a platform for attracting clicks on other platforms.
Reddit's going the way of MySpace. Unless you like burning money, this IPO is one to skip. All the things that made Reddit great, once, are gone now. There are no compelling reasons to use it; it's slow, intrusive, disrespectful to user privacy, performatively moralizing and preachy, caters to the worst sort of moderation and curation power dynamics, and serves no relevant purpose in the ecosystem of the modern internet. The best and only value of Reddit comes from older archives of scraped content now used as training data for AI.
> Reddit has hamfistedly broken whatever value it once had as a platform for long form discussion, with the interesting and valuable fringe, hobbyist, and obscure niche forums having been banned or moderated into inane milquetoast. Now, its value seems primarily as a customer support resource for companies outside the US, or as a platform for attracting clicks on other platforms.
It's so sad. They really had a good thing going. I like to believe that it could have been a sustainable marvel of the internet of the likes of Wikipedia, if they had just stuck to reddit gold and non-intrusive ads for the revenue. How much can it cost to keep the servers going? The source code for the old reddit seems pretty stable and not like it requires tons of maintenance or the attention of many devs.
It's so sad. They really had a good thing going. I like to believe that it could have been a sustainable marvel of the internet of the likes of Wikipedia, if they had just stuck to reddit gold and non-intrusive ads for the revenue. How much can it cost to keep the servers going? The source code for the old reddit seems pretty stable and not like it requires tons of maintenance or the attention of many devs.
That's because Wikipedia isn't run by a Silicon Valley swamp creature. It provides a decent living for those who run the corporate side of things, but was never intended to create millionaires. Keeping the servers running isn't a cost that will grow exponentially; you need a lack of focus on the product by incompetent people who think they should be unfathomably wealthy to get the revenue demands that Reddit has now.
Fair warning, I used PowerDeleteSuite and Reddit seems to have backfilled a bunch of deleted comments while keeping them off my user page. Every now and then I'll read an old thread and see my username and have to manually delete the comment.
Same. Also happened to my brother's account after we thought we'd nuked everything.
I used to use Shreddit and other tools and the same thing has happened. Even worse, they give me notifications if someone replies in a sub that didn't opt-in to archive mode (another dumb decision; should've been opt-out), but I can delete them.
>Even worse, they give me notifications if someone replies in a sub that didn't opt-in to archive mode (another dumb decision; should've been opt-out),
God, that is just the WORST concept especially nowadays. I was looking for info on water filtes and found a bunch of ChatGPT comments from 3 months ago on an 8 year old thread shilling for some company. Of course, they were all upvoted to the top of the thread.
I even had a notification of someone just commenting "lol" on an offhand comment I made about Firefly in 2011. As if that needed to be said.
God, that is just the WORST concept especially nowadays. I was looking for info on water filtes and found a bunch of ChatGPT comments from 3 months ago on an 8 year old thread shilling for some company. Of course, they were all upvoted to the top of the thread.
I even had a notification of someone just commenting "lol" on an offhand comment I made about Firefly in 2011. As if that needed to be said.
If you were doing this during the protests, comments on closed (protesting) subreddits were hidden from users' profiles until the sub reopened.
This seems very illegal in some places.
I don't think that reddit is "backfilling." I don't have time to check right now, but I suspect that PowerDeleteSuite goes through your profile to find things to delete. Your profile is limited to showing 1k entries. IIRC that's the top 1k according to whatever ranking you're using, so you could get some more comments by re-running it sorting by top, controversial, etc, but if you made a lot of comments PowerDeleteSuite just won't be able to find everything.
[deleted]
[deleted]
I played with the python PRAW package to scrub old comments a while ago. Even iterating through the different sorts (new/hot/controversial/etc) I could remove everything there, but different comments would appear there after some time.
My theory was Reddit ran batch jobs on some cadence (daily maybe?) to generate the topN comments lists for each users profile page. Running my script a couple of times over a several days seemed to clear everything.
My theory was Reddit ran batch jobs on some cadence (daily maybe?) to generate the topN comments lists for each users profile page. Running my script a couple of times over a several days seemed to clear everything.
It may not be backfilling, but I can confirm that my user profile is not showing comments that exist elsewhere on reddit.
Sorting by "controversial" does, though, show new comments that weren't on the main page. So you might be on to something.
Sorting by "controversial" does, though, show new comments that weren't on the main page. So you might be on to something.
Profile is 2k as it is a combination of both the 1k comment/post listings, iirc.
I bet that their TOS covers that anything you submit belongs to them.
I'd love to delete old comments on HackerNews but I can't so I'm pretty sure that Reddit could take away the delete button tomorrow and nothing would change.
I'd love to delete old comments on HackerNews but I can't so I'm pretty sure that Reddit could take away the delete button tomorrow and nothing would change.
I'll have to check out that tool.
Generalized social media is looking more and more like a mistake. There were previously forums, and they were centered around a topic. Then Reddit and Facebook came around and killed those by making it easy to create and find those communities. Now they're coming back. I want a local equivalent to Reddit, without the rest of Reddit. Beyond that, I don't need more social media that has no link to my IRL activities.
Also, the comparison to MySpace isn't fair. Tom was far cooler than spez ever will be.
<lereddit>We did it, HN! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Take my updoot, kind stranger!</lereddit>
Generalized social media is looking more and more like a mistake. There were previously forums, and they were centered around a topic. Then Reddit and Facebook came around and killed those by making it easy to create and find those communities. Now they're coming back. I want a local equivalent to Reddit, without the rest of Reddit. Beyond that, I don't need more social media that has no link to my IRL activities.
Also, the comparison to MySpace isn't fair. Tom was far cooler than spez ever will be.
<lereddit>We did it, HN! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Take my updoot, kind stranger!</lereddit>
Isn't the local equivalent of Reddit just NextDoor? Which seems to mostly be worse, from what I can tell.
One of the most valuable long-form posts I have seen in the past year was a few days ago, about the absolute dangers of reddit and other social media sites due to nation-state disinformation. Ironic.
"You're being targeted by disinformation networks that are vastly more effective than you realize. And they're making you more hateful and depressed."
https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZ/comments/1bfto4a/youre_being_t...
(Notice the "old" in the domain, because the new layout and all the apps are designed not for maximum utility, but for ad revenue).
There is so much more unoriginal content on reddit now. So little that is interesting or inspiring. It takes true effort to find content that is the combination of Interesting AND Original. /r/all is to Instagram what BoredPanda was/is to reddit: stale, shitty content maintained by bots and influencers.
"You're being targeted by disinformation networks that are vastly more effective than you realize. And they're making you more hateful and depressed."
https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZ/comments/1bfto4a/youre_being_t...
(Notice the "old" in the domain, because the new layout and all the apps are designed not for maximum utility, but for ad revenue).
There is so much more unoriginal content on reddit now. So little that is interesting or inspiring. It takes true effort to find content that is the combination of Interesting AND Original. /r/all is to Instagram what BoredPanda was/is to reddit: stale, shitty content maintained by bots and influencers.
Related video I saw yesterday: TikTok is a Cyberweapon[0].
I don't love the way he presented the idea, a bit handwavey and not properly acknowledging the fact that TikTok is only different from other socials because it's a) very good algorithm-wise, and b) Chinese. But the demo of how one would astroturf a protest was very convincing. He should have just done it, it would have been groundbreaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7WzqUq4Nk
I don't love the way he presented the idea, a bit handwavey and not properly acknowledging the fact that TikTok is only different from other socials because it's a) very good algorithm-wise, and b) Chinese. But the demo of how one would astroturf a protest was very convincing. He should have just done it, it would have been groundbreaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7WzqUq4Nk
Agreed. It's a problem across the board. Insta can do the same thing. It's just that one is US agitprop, one is Chinese.
We need to train our friends and citizens on how to be effective at changing the world around them and at communicating, and how not to let social media influence them directly.
Sadly, the people who are otherwise smart who I know are further left totally reject mainstream media as "complicit in US government crimes" and so on.
We need to train our friends and citizens on how to be effective at changing the world around them and at communicating, and how not to let social media influence them directly.
Sadly, the people who are otherwise smart who I know are further left totally reject mainstream media as "complicit in US government crimes" and so on.
> There needed to be something like del.icio.us/popular, but designed for sharing links instead of being a byproduct of saving them.
Weird comparison—user-submitted-link-aggregator-forum-combo was well-trod ground by 2005. Fark was founded in ‘99 and wasn’t the first. Slashdot, kinda, though with more gatekeeping. Kuro5hin. Tons of them. This framing makes it seem like a new idea, like there were lists of links but nobody had thought to attach forums to them yet, but they very much had.
[edit] oh man, yeah, another post mentions 4chan and pals. The framing of this as if we had peanut butter and bread but nobody had noticed we might be able to make a peanut butter sandwich gets stranger the more I think about it.
Weird comparison—user-submitted-link-aggregator-forum-combo was well-trod ground by 2005. Fark was founded in ‘99 and wasn’t the first. Slashdot, kinda, though with more gatekeeping. Kuro5hin. Tons of them. This framing makes it seem like a new idea, like there were lists of links but nobody had thought to attach forums to them yet, but they very much had.
[edit] oh man, yeah, another post mentions 4chan and pals. The framing of this as if we had peanut butter and bread but nobody had noticed we might be able to make a peanut butter sandwich gets stranger the more I think about it.
kuro5hin, now that's a name I've not heard in a long time
I mean, Digg! Digg, and its ensuing collapse from a redesign, is the reason that Reddit got its userbase!
Yeah, Digg of course, I wasn’t sure exactly of the timeline on this so was giving them that one as maybe-not-an-inspiration, but c’mon, “users post links and then talk about them” is practically an ancient kind of website.
Plastic, Metafilter, memepool, others too I’m sure.
Reddit is kinda trash these days, more rubbish is added to it when all that matters is the core functionality.
However with growth, it's just full of idiots, you go to any subreddit for something that you are interested in and it's just a toxic mess. I've jumped into subreddits for a particular brand/person before that I hadn't heard about recently or that I enjoyed some output from them, only to find that the people on such subreddits spend there entire time ripping such thing apart 24/7, why even subscribe to that subreddit, if you hate that thing?
There are subreddits for a lot of things that I enjoy, but as I have gotten older, it's become an issue that most of the users are kids and therefore don't know what the hell they are talking about, I wouldn't have such conversations with such people in real life, but the issue with Reddit is I have no idea who these people are.
Reddit certainly has the potential to be one of the most interesting places on the internet to me, connecting you to all sorts of interesting things and ideas, but it's more and more just becoming a toxic cesspool.
However with growth, it's just full of idiots, you go to any subreddit for something that you are interested in and it's just a toxic mess. I've jumped into subreddits for a particular brand/person before that I hadn't heard about recently or that I enjoyed some output from them, only to find that the people on such subreddits spend there entire time ripping such thing apart 24/7, why even subscribe to that subreddit, if you hate that thing?
There are subreddits for a lot of things that I enjoy, but as I have gotten older, it's become an issue that most of the users are kids and therefore don't know what the hell they are talking about, I wouldn't have such conversations with such people in real life, but the issue with Reddit is I have no idea who these people are.
Reddit certainly has the potential to be one of the most interesting places on the internet to me, connecting you to all sorts of interesting things and ideas, but it's more and more just becoming a toxic cesspool.
Yeah. I joined Reddit pretty early and loved it for the longest time. It was my main social media place.
But anytime a small community would grow in popularity and hit somewhere threshold, it would be overrun by the greater reddit population The subreddit would quickly lose what made the community special and core users would migrate or just stop.
And volunteer moderation is bothe best idea ever and the worst. When it works it's awesome, but it feels as if it's only a matter of time.
So when the API changes hit last year, I saw it as Reddit handing me my hat. The old reddit was no more. I couldn't use it how I wanted to use it, at least not without paying. And given that my reddit usage was more habit than value, I made the decision to accept how things are.
I miss it. This PG post felt more like a eulogy than a promise, despite the closing. But I think I'm better without Reddit. At this point it seems to primarily be a content farm for AI agents, both producing and consuming. So maybe the dark-forest Internet is starting to arrive.
But anytime a small community would grow in popularity and hit somewhere threshold, it would be overrun by the greater reddit population The subreddit would quickly lose what made the community special and core users would migrate or just stop.
And volunteer moderation is bothe best idea ever and the worst. When it works it's awesome, but it feels as if it's only a matter of time.
So when the API changes hit last year, I saw it as Reddit handing me my hat. The old reddit was no more. I couldn't use it how I wanted to use it, at least not without paying. And given that my reddit usage was more habit than value, I made the decision to accept how things are.
I miss it. This PG post felt more like a eulogy than a promise, despite the closing. But I think I'm better without Reddit. At this point it seems to primarily be a content farm for AI agents, both producing and consuming. So maybe the dark-forest Internet is starting to arrive.
I agree, Reddit communities after a certain point become awful.
I think you can still find great communities but they feel like ticking time-bombs.
Only a matter of time before they became too big and issues from large communities begin to spill in.
I think you can still find great communities but they feel like ticking time-bombs.
Only a matter of time before they became too big and issues from large communities begin to spill in.
In my experience that threshold is 20,000 subs. Anything between 5,000 and 20,000 is generally good. I've seen quite a few subreddits reach an inflection point at 20,000 where they begin to rapidly gain tens of thousands of users and the quality goes down.
> Reddit is kinda trash these days... it's just full of idiots
Reddit is the same as it always has been, but once a social media network reaches a certain scale, you can't really deal with the problems in the same way, or any way.
ex: Social network has 1000 active users. 1% (10) are disruptive: spammers, flamers, trolls, maybe just plain morons. That's fairly easy to handle, even if you only have 1 or 2 people with moderation powers.
Alternate scenario: Social network has 10,000,000 active users. 1% are disruptive. That's 100,000 people you need to regularly moderate. Which means instead of having a few "benevolent dictators" who can handle all of the content moderation, you need a team of moderators. Who probably have their own disagreements and agendas (like, I don't know, maybe a moderator of the largest picture/meme subreddit using their power to funnel traffic to a site they control while blocking competitors to slurp up ad revenue[0]). So now you need super-mods for the mod team.
It's like building out a business. You can have a high-performing 20-person team where everyone is a strong, valuable contributor. But the likelihood of your 10,000 person corporation, or even your 250 person department, having every single person be a valuable contributor is 0%. The percentages don't change as you grow, but the absolute number does.
The % of HN readers who want to make dumb reddit-style jokes here may be low, but if HN were 100x more popular, it would be as bad as Reddit. It's just the way things go.
[0] https://www.dailydot.com/debug/reddit-quickmeme-banned-miltz...
Reddit is the same as it always has been, but once a social media network reaches a certain scale, you can't really deal with the problems in the same way, or any way.
ex: Social network has 1000 active users. 1% (10) are disruptive: spammers, flamers, trolls, maybe just plain morons. That's fairly easy to handle, even if you only have 1 or 2 people with moderation powers.
Alternate scenario: Social network has 10,000,000 active users. 1% are disruptive. That's 100,000 people you need to regularly moderate. Which means instead of having a few "benevolent dictators" who can handle all of the content moderation, you need a team of moderators. Who probably have their own disagreements and agendas (like, I don't know, maybe a moderator of the largest picture/meme subreddit using their power to funnel traffic to a site they control while blocking competitors to slurp up ad revenue[0]). So now you need super-mods for the mod team.
It's like building out a business. You can have a high-performing 20-person team where everyone is a strong, valuable contributor. But the likelihood of your 10,000 person corporation, or even your 250 person department, having every single person be a valuable contributor is 0%. The percentages don't change as you grow, but the absolute number does.
The % of HN readers who want to make dumb reddit-style jokes here may be low, but if HN were 100x more popular, it would be as bad as Reddit. It's just the way things go.
[0] https://www.dailydot.com/debug/reddit-quickmeme-banned-miltz...
I think what happens with Reddit is that it's basically a collection of niche message boards for very niche interests, and over time the people who stay active in a given subreddit are people who take some topic extremely seriously and it essentially devolves into extremism/cult-like vibes with the mods at the helm.
I don't see all this. Take tea, cycling subs. I don't see any cultism there. Sub where I am mod, eupersonalfinance seems to be very polite and useful.
Well you're a mod so already you are biased here.
It's not every sub, but any diet related subs are a good example...keto/vegan/carnivore/the one for bryan johnson
It's not every sub, but any diet related subs are a good example...keto/vegan/carnivore/the one for bryan johnson
The user quality on Reddit really has taken a nosedive over the years. I recall looking at some thread recently related to online services for consoles. The overwhelming sentiment in the thread was something like "I already pay for internet why should I pay for XBox Live". Maybe the thread was just especially full of children.
I remember people on Reddit (10 years ago) used to be knowledgeable and when new information appeared, that would matter. There's just so much ignorance now.
I remember people on Reddit (10 years ago) used to be knowledgeable and when new information appeared, that would matter. There's just so much ignorance now.
I gotta say, if thats the stupidest reddit comment you can think kff, you must not spend much time there. Try literally any political subreddit to find people being so absurdly left wing that they end up advocating for despotism.
I didn’t say that was the stupidest comment I could think of. It was just something that stood out to me recently. Tech literacy among Reddit users used to be pretty decent. Now it’s pretty much the opposite.
in all fairness to the people of reddit, this is a top-down propaganda assault, not a grassroots uprising. reddit is 100% used as a controlled-narrative dissemination tool by nation state actors all over the world.
monkey brain see upvotes, monkey brain assume group consensus correct, monkey brain follow [0]. repeatedly banning or blackholing anything that goes against your desired narrative leads to a smaller and smaller percentage of users willing to speak out against the consensus, so these opinions become even more marginalized, repeat until desired level of radicalization is achieved.
it even happens on HN - heavily downvoted comments are presumed to be barely worth reading because multiple people went out of their way to downvote. you could control the public opinion of a small country with <$50k worth of black market upvotes per year. that kind of power doesn't and hasn't gone unnoticed
[0] see 1951 Asch conformity study
monkey brain see upvotes, monkey brain assume group consensus correct, monkey brain follow [0]. repeatedly banning or blackholing anything that goes against your desired narrative leads to a smaller and smaller percentage of users willing to speak out against the consensus, so these opinions become even more marginalized, repeat until desired level of radicalization is achieved.
it even happens on HN - heavily downvoted comments are presumed to be barely worth reading because multiple people went out of their way to downvote. you could control the public opinion of a small country with <$50k worth of black market upvotes per year. that kind of power doesn't and hasn't gone unnoticed
[0] see 1951 Asch conformity study
Im not conspiracy minded but if you go to the /r/Canada subreddit it is so ridiculously pro Pierre Poilievre that I think something is up.
Not a single one of the 3 parties in Canada have a likeable head, it's shocking to see the people on there go nuts for this random goon.
Not a single one of the 3 parties in Canada have a likeable head, it's shocking to see the people on there go nuts for this random goon.
I remember Reddit. It used to be a great place to meet others with the same niche interests. It's a shame they self immolated.
My only regret is that I didn't remove all of my comments before deleting my account.
I'll never forgive them.
My only regret is that I didn't remove all of my comments before deleting my account.
I'll never forgive them.
I did a data request, and then encrypted every single one of my comments, and made a web app to decrypt it lol. I randomly get messages from people still decrypting the most random stuff and either mocking me or complimenting the idea. Highly recommend this route vs deleting because a rando can still read your content, but it's not as useful to Reddit itself.
If randos are decrypting your reddit comments then you didn't use very strong encryption.
Haha, in the comment, I say to go to my profile to decrypt, and then I have a web app linked for them with instructions. It's just AES-128 iirc, so I don't think people are decrypting it otherwise.
Maybe they have a comment on their profile linking to the web app
Not sure if it was you but I have seen such encrypted comments before.
Self immolation implies making a personal sacrifice in the name of a cause. In this case, they betrayed a set of their users with the goal of greatly increasing their wealth, and that outcome is now happening.
> My only regret is that I didn't remove all of my comments before deleting my account.
don't beat yourself up about this, because they are the kind of scumbags that spend time and money on detecting these deleted/removed comments and then backfilling them.
> I'll never forgive them.
we got too attached and they exploited it. they are abusive assholes, but we need to let it go, heal, find/create new and better online/offline communities (and platforms).
Mastodon is quite nice!
don't beat yourself up about this, because they are the kind of scumbags that spend time and money on detecting these deleted/removed comments and then backfilling them.
> I'll never forgive them.
we got too attached and they exploited it. they are abusive assholes, but we need to let it go, heal, find/create new and better online/offline communities (and platforms).
Mastodon is quite nice!
Did anybody else get offered the “directed shares”? Seems so freaking scammy to ask your users to provide you with your exit liquidity.
I’m talking about this: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/reddit-will-let-users-buy-it...
I’m talking about this: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/reddit-will-let-users-buy-it...
Anyone who opted in could have doubled their money this morning. Is it still a scam with this knowledge?
It was an option offered. Nobody's hand was forced.
It was an option offered. Nobody's hand was forced.
If they didn't make the offer, they'd be criticized for offering any of the "pie" to users who helped them succeed.
I’ve steered clear of anything like that since the Deliveroo IPO. I bought into the offer of “special early access” shares as a regular user of the platform… …then watched their value spectacularly plummet over the next few years while the founders rode off into the sunset with my cash…
> They told me about the startup idea we'd later fund them to drop: a way to order fast food on your cellphone.
> So it was not going to happen. It still doesn't exist, 19 years later.
Weird take. Doordash/Uber eats/deliveroo are huge companies and it's absolutely the same idea they had, they just had it too early
> So it was not going to happen. It still doesn't exist, 19 years later.
Weird take. Doordash/Uber eats/deliveroo are huge companies and it's absolutely the same idea they had, they just had it too early
> But Reddit was special, and when Steve came back in 2015, I knew the world was in for a surprise.
It was certainly a surprise that he thought it was a good idea to edit a user's comment as a form of trolling when he's the ceo.
It was certainly a surprise that he thought it was a good idea to edit a user's comment as a form of trolling when he's the ceo.
Cute revisionist puff piece about Steve Huffman, moderator of r/Jailbait
Reddit has severely damaged their reputation recently, and usage has dropped.
I'm pretty sure the article is just an attempt at revising history in front of the IPO.
I'm pretty sure the article is just an attempt at revising history in front of the IPO.
according to their S-1, usage did not drop.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1713445/000162828024...
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1713445/000162828024...
I wouldn’t put it past them to ramp up the bot activity as real users bailed so their S-1 would look somewhat okay…
It could also be that they have had modest growth from normies offsetting the losses from earlier users. This could explain why it appears to be in steep decline for many of the people here but may look almost ok from the outside.
Or it could just be bots.
Or it could just be bots.
Agreed.
After the API thing, I stopped using for a few months, converting to Lemmy instead.
Then I got booted from Lemmy for not being communist enough, I started looking at Reddit again maybe once a day.
At first, I was so happy to see a lot of activity on my small subreddits that never had much activity before.
But after a few weeks I realized it's just bots basically rephrasing popular posts from the past. And bots rephrasing responses to those posts.
Where is the next Reddit? I miss it.
After the API thing, I stopped using for a few months, converting to Lemmy instead.
Then I got booted from Lemmy for not being communist enough, I started looking at Reddit again maybe once a day.
At first, I was so happy to see a lot of activity on my small subreddits that never had much activity before.
But after a few weeks I realized it's just bots basically rephrasing popular posts from the past. And bots rephrasing responses to those posts.
Where is the next Reddit? I miss it.
That’s the go to jail kind of securities fraud.
If you think any major social media site is not willfully ignoring some percentage of the bots, I've got a bridge to sell you.
And it's much easier to hide this problem on a site where the users are anonymous.
Reddit wouldn't be the first company to juice the numbers before an IPO. They've also admitted to taking advantage of fake accounts in the past: https://www.themarysue.com/reddit-fake-account-origins/
And it's much easier to hide this problem on a site where the users are anonymous.
Reddit wouldn't be the first company to juice the numbers before an IPO. They've also admitted to taking advantage of fake accounts in the past: https://www.themarysue.com/reddit-fake-account-origins/
I have a generic email address and its constantly being added to various new websites, apps, projects, etc. Its bizarre how blatant this is.
Its very cleary an IPO strategy is to hire "marketing companies" that are really botnet controllers to create users for your site to make it more attractive to investors. Then leadership gets to play dumb when these "marketing companies" are filling their user roster.
Its very cleary an IPO strategy is to hire "marketing companies" that are really botnet controllers to create users for your site to make it more attractive to investors. Then leadership gets to play dumb when these "marketing companies" are filling their user roster.
Exactly.
Maintaining plausible deniability is all that's necessary to avoid the legal issues. Add very minimal bot detection just to claim you aren't doing nothing about the problem.
I've stopped using reddit for a lot of reasons. But a big one was that more and more of the content being posted was from fake users. I had an account for ~11/12 years and this was always an issue. But it seemed to really ramp up in 2023. I also started receiving direct messages from bots in 2023. That had never happened before.
This is an anecdotal experience. But there are quite a few users saying the same thing lately: there's a bot problem like there wasn't before.
Maintaining plausible deniability is all that's necessary to avoid the legal issues. Add very minimal bot detection just to claim you aren't doing nothing about the problem.
I've stopped using reddit for a lot of reasons. But a big one was that more and more of the content being posted was from fake users. I had an account for ~11/12 years and this was always an issue. But it seemed to really ramp up in 2023. I also started receiving direct messages from bots in 2023. That had never happened before.
This is an anecdotal experience. But there are quite a few users saying the same thing lately: there's a bot problem like there wasn't before.
> If you think any major social media site is not willfully ignoring some percentage of the bots, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Sell me. How do they usually do that? Any concrete example?
Sell me. How do they usually do that? Any concrete example?
you can simply buy upvotes, stars, views, retweet's, reviews etc some will even guarantee delivery. If you buy 1000 and all of those bots get banned they will deploy 1000 new ones to deliver the order.
You prefer them to create real looking accounts or they start stealing them.
If it gets harder only affects the price.
You prefer them to create real looking accounts or they start stealing them.
If it gets harder only affects the price.
If a site has an API, it has bots. They call that common sense.
You don't need to ADD bots, you can just not ban as many...
the usual M.O. is to spend a lot on growth campaigns, and then they can claim that there's growth! how did the user acquisition cost change over time?
that's hilarious you think that every major platform doesn't have the same amount of bot activity.
And there are people who go to jail for fraud. Let's not forget about the whole CEO editing comments fiasco.
CEO editing comments has what to do with fraud?
If he can't handle arguments without modifying the history in his favor, it's not completely unlikely that he'd also modify the stats of his business in his favor too. Parent commenter implied that since it was a "go to jail" kind of a offense, it's not likely. Maybe less likely, but his past behaviour shows that he does do suspicious things.
A whole paragraph for something I figured didn't need expounding.
A whole paragraph for something I figured didn't need expounding.
Indeed, like it or not, the people who complained are the power users, a very vocal minority who still use old.reddit. Normal people don't give a shit about any of the controversy.
They lost all their users that provided value for reddit as a platform. Reddit will surely continue to flourish as a way to show ads to children and astroturf Google search results for product reviews. But I've noticed a ginormous drop in posting quality since they neutered their API. Even small subreddits that were fairly active are now filled with spam and engagement farming, moderators aren't interested in cleaning anything up because their app to do so is trash, users don't want to post because the subreddit is shit up with garbage. It's gotten bad.
Any examples of such subreddits? For the ones I visit, like askhistorians, programming, etc, it's been business as usual.
Recent example I've noticed, /r/patientgamers has had repeated posts in my feed that are the exact same copy of "no matter how many times I try, I just can't get into <GAME NAME>"
I didn't used to see these copy pasted posts regularly at the top of subreddits but it happens frequently now.
I didn't used to see these copy pasted posts regularly at the top of subreddits but it happens frequently now.
Well, that's to be expected from such a sub, who'd recommend games from recent history over those of, say, the Pong generation. That is simply how people grow up.
That's because askhistorians only let's other historians ask questions. I've tried asking some serious questions there before and I always got immediately deleted. IIRC it was always something about how the quality of my question was beneath them.
That's definitely not true, most questions on there are from amateurs. If your questions keep getting deleted, there is something wrong with how you are asking your questions, perhaps they are too broad to be unanswerable.
Did growth rate take a pause?
Not sure but there seems to be a lot more bots on reddit. Entire threads with hundreds of comments from bots are all around reddit.
I can't dispute this, but since you shared an anectdote I will also. I haven't seen this in any of the communities I visit personally. Do you mean bot accounts which are passing themselves off as real people and karma farming? Or bots that self identify as such to fill a legit need?
not out to defend reddit here, it also feels to be going donwhill to me, but this is not something I've personally experienced on the site yet
not out to defend reddit here, it also feels to be going donwhill to me, but this is not something I've personally experienced on the site yet
"everything i don't like is a bot"
How else do you explain people who still post on /r/politics or /r/whitepeopletwitter?
There are lots of terminally online people on the Internet.
[deleted]
This is so detatched from reality it borders on lying. People went to Reddit over Slashdot not because news there was "faster" (it never, ever was) but because Reddit had and has porn. Slashdot never did.
In fact, the biggest innovation of Reddit vs Digg and Slashdot before it, isn't mentioned here at all; you could create and moderate your own communities on Reddit. I guess that is hard to square with Reddit seizing control of so many communities in recent years.
This also completely ignores the fake traffic and posts that the Reddit founders admitted to in the early days and certainly seems to be going on still today. Most subreddits seem to be a shadow of there former selves and feel like ghost towns. The front page and /r/all clearly have the books cooked on what appears there. Brand friendly posts jump up with barely any votes. One or two posts from popular subreddits almost seem to be chosen daily to appear there.
In fact, the biggest innovation of Reddit vs Digg and Slashdot before it, isn't mentioned here at all; you could create and moderate your own communities on Reddit. I guess that is hard to square with Reddit seizing control of so many communities in recent years.
This also completely ignores the fake traffic and posts that the Reddit founders admitted to in the early days and certainly seems to be going on still today. Most subreddits seem to be a shadow of there former selves and feel like ghost towns. The front page and /r/all clearly have the books cooked on what appears there. Brand friendly posts jump up with barely any votes. One or two posts from popular subreddits almost seem to be chosen daily to appear there.
A bit of a rant, but I find it hard to believe pg goes on reddit much if this is how he feels.
I remember years ago reddit was a lot more like HN. The comment section (even for the main subs) was much more intellectual and critical.
People appeared to actually read posted articles. It was a thing where people would read the comment section before the article because everyone knew headlines were generally clickbait, and you could rely on some internet stranger to have analyzed the article and demonstrate the headline wasn't all as it seemed.
But now it seems that no one reads the articles at all or care for any sort of discourse with people with different opinions. Comments are filled with just jabs and pitchforks. No different than comment sections on news sites. Yet Redditors still seem to have the arrogance that it had developed over the years that their communities are better than those sites. And well, they used to be, but now they're just as bad.
I remember years ago reddit was a lot more like HN. The comment section (even for the main subs) was much more intellectual and critical.
People appeared to actually read posted articles. It was a thing where people would read the comment section before the article because everyone knew headlines were generally clickbait, and you could rely on some internet stranger to have analyzed the article and demonstrate the headline wasn't all as it seemed.
But now it seems that no one reads the articles at all or care for any sort of discourse with people with different opinions. Comments are filled with just jabs and pitchforks. No different than comment sections on news sites. Yet Redditors still seem to have the arrogance that it had developed over the years that their communities are better than those sites. And well, they used to be, but now they're just as bad.
I use RES to tag users that fit certain profiles of spamming divisive content or are just karma farming. In the past few months of lurking reddit an hour a day (sadly) I have accumulated more than 200 accounts that I took the time to identify, and many get banned. My count is only that low because I filter subs when I find they're total trash.
Much of reddit is, as they say, a cesspool. I have filtered over 200 subs from /r/all on my browser due to being nothing but spam, or being hatefully divisive on race or identity, or being a political echo chamber. If it burned down, little would be lost, and it would simply be replaced by another spam content farm.
Example spam submission:
https://old.reddit.com/r/FuckImOld/comments/1bk3ovp/what_els...
Example user submitting spam:
https://old.reddit.com/user/NaturallyFlashy
Notice account age compared with post history.
Much of reddit is, as they say, a cesspool. I have filtered over 200 subs from /r/all on my browser due to being nothing but spam, or being hatefully divisive on race or identity, or being a political echo chamber. If it burned down, little would be lost, and it would simply be replaced by another spam content farm.
Example spam submission:
https://old.reddit.com/r/FuckImOld/comments/1bk3ovp/what_els...
Example user submitting spam:
https://old.reddit.com/user/NaturallyFlashy
Notice account age compared with post history.
Non mainstream Reddit is still great. city specific subs for example and some programming subs.
And it's very clear to me that HN is next to suffer this fate
Luckily, we have the golden rule that will surely prevent this fate:
> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
Bottom of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
Bottom of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
People have been saying that since before Hacker News was called Hacker News.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852
Whatever the poison is, to quote Voltaire, "it must be very slow".
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21755721
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852
Whatever the poison is, to quote Voltaire, "it must be very slow".
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21755721
Fun fact: Half of all HN posts/ comments were made in the last five years. I'm brand-new to here instead of reddit (no subs grrr), but look old as the hills from this perspective.
HN has got worse in some places - I think size is the enemy of any community - but HN has comfortably sat behind the curve because it doesn't try to leave its niche. It is mostly outside forces that have changed HN (I.e growth of the general Internet population and big tech), whereas Reddit, etc try to change themselves (by changing their format and gamifying engagement)
HN's worst times was at peak free money tech optimism.
Plenty of pretending that running a "successful" startup wasn't 90% scamming. The actual tech and programming didn't matter, all that mattered was that your `hello world.proj` was a money pump from users to shareholders or from shareholders to founders.
Just find all the old posts that say Uber/WeWork/Theranos/Tesla/SpaceX/etc will all make bajillions in 10 years and their tech is amazing and the problems are actually not that hard.
Plenty of pretending that running a "successful" startup wasn't 90% scamming. The actual tech and programming didn't matter, all that mattered was that your `hello world.proj` was a money pump from users to shareholders or from shareholders to founders.
Just find all the old posts that say Uber/WeWork/Theranos/Tesla/SpaceX/etc will all make bajillions in 10 years and their tech is amazing and the problems are actually not that hard.
Let's not kid ourselves. HN already has the problem of commentors not reading the article, we're just not allowed to discuss it as per the rules.
Not next, it already does... but hacker news is also very hard to kill.
I remember Digg being more popular than Reddit more than a decade ago. What happened that caused Reddit to succeed where Digg failed?
Digg was more self-immolation than failure. Reddit succeeded by being the place people fled to from Digg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg#Digg_v4
Reddit is on the same path, but it's more of a slow burn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg#Digg_v4
Reddit is on the same path, but it's more of a slow burn.
> Many users, upon finally reaching the site, complained about the new design
Sounds like Reddit. When I go to reddit, I use "old.reddit.com". I hate the new version, once old.reddit disappears, I disappear too.
Sounds like Reddit. When I go to reddit, I use "old.reddit.com". I hate the new version, once old.reddit disappears, I disappear too.
The lack of an obvious place to go seems to be all that stands between Reddit and total collapse. Instead of an obvious Digg->Reddit type path, it's more like Reddit->a bunch of less than equivalent options.
You've got your Lemmys and Lobsters and so on, but none of them are a centralized catch-all. I can't (for example) go to Lobsters and talk about Star Trek in a /r/DaystromInstitute equivalent, and the official equivalent running on Lemmy is far from equivalent to what the subreddit was before all this chaos.
It's kind of the same deal with Twitter. Twitter was the place ~everyone went to as forums collapsed. Now there's [Discord, new forums, Reddit, 9000 different ActivityPub platforms, Bluesky, Cohost, ...] and none are quite a match for what even the narrowest niche used Twitter for. You could easily go from your forum chat threads and topical threads and recreate that experience on Twitter with a high level of fidelity. Digg->Reddit was similar.
There's no obvious match for the centralized platforms because they sucked up all the energy for creating new centralized platforms that existed before.
You've got your Lemmys and Lobsters and so on, but none of them are a centralized catch-all. I can't (for example) go to Lobsters and talk about Star Trek in a /r/DaystromInstitute equivalent, and the official equivalent running on Lemmy is far from equivalent to what the subreddit was before all this chaos.
It's kind of the same deal with Twitter. Twitter was the place ~everyone went to as forums collapsed. Now there's [Discord, new forums, Reddit, 9000 different ActivityPub platforms, Bluesky, Cohost, ...] and none are quite a match for what even the narrowest niche used Twitter for. You could easily go from your forum chat threads and topical threads and recreate that experience on Twitter with a high level of fidelity. Digg->Reddit was similar.
There's no obvious match for the centralized platforms because they sucked up all the energy for creating new centralized platforms that existed before.
I think less centralization is actually a good thing but yes it does mean that reddit can hang on a little longer because it's less obvious to people what they can replace it with.
The obvious place is discord, but discord sucks in lots of other ways. Great for voice chat, but not great as a reddit replacement.
I can't understand the appeal behind Discord for general communities. Everything is one giant persistent group chat--there's no discrete threads or posts to search, at least not in the servers I'm in. Sad that so many companies are opting for Discord for building communities.
I've tried multiple times to use discord, and the fundamental blocker for me seems to be in it's name. Every one feels just like a private slack channel for a company I don't work for. Discordant.
To say that product is going to replace twitter is -imo- just wrong.
To say that product is going to replace twitter is -imo- just wrong.
Same, Discord is useless to me
If old.reddit didn't still have a very sizeable user base they definitely would have killed it by now, so you are not alone.
It's only about 5% of users, which is sizable but not unkillable by any means. The third-party mobile apps had way, way more than that and they proved very killable.
I wonder how much those 5% contribute compared to the folks using the new interface.
When Digg started to do stupid things, everyone switched to Reddit.
When Reddit started to do stupid things, some people moved to lemmy but it wasn't as clear cut... I guess distributed networks are always a bit harder to get traction.
When Reddit started to do stupid things, some people moved to lemmy but it wasn't as clear cut... I guess distributed networks are always a bit harder to get traction.
So the question is, if Digg users fled to Reddit, where are Reddit users fleeing to now?
Before anyone replies with "the fediverse"… I've heard people talking about Mastodon etc. for years now and afaict it's still a fringe nerd thing that most people outside techie HN-adjacent circles haven't heard of. It doesn't seem remotely comparable to Reddit in terms of popularity, or potential popularity.
Before anyone replies with "the fediverse"… I've heard people talking about Mastodon etc. for years now and afaict it's still a fringe nerd thing that most people outside techie HN-adjacent circles haven't heard of. It doesn't seem remotely comparable to Reddit in terms of popularity, or potential popularity.
I think the issues is that there isn't an obvious successor place - rather lots of different ones - lemmy, etc...
Mastodon recently blew past 15m users, though, so not nothing.
Mastodon recently blew past 15m users, though, so not nothing.
Is that registered or MAU?
Internet forums are fundamentally not companies that can grow infinitely and where investors 10-100x their money. Digg was unprofitable. Tumblr was unprofitable. Twitter is unprofitable. Reddit is unprofitable. When VCs/investors ramp up the pressure the company has to change in ways the community doesn't like, and that is what normally kills it. Whether that happens with Reddit as well is TBD, but I can personally say that the quality of the forum has been steady declining over the last few years.
How does Facebook succeed making stupid amounts of money in this context? Is it the reality that they just have enough of data to make targeting effective enough?
Network effects mostly. If your relatives or friends are on facebook then you will either have to put up with it or miss out on social contacts. This does apply to other kinds of forums too to some extend but limited to a more abstract numbers game where the biggest forum is the place to be rather than more personal direct connections that you don't want to cut.
They serve up a ton of ads, which is also gradually driving people from Facebook. But if reddit served as many ads, it would be completely unusable.
Ads make the signal to noise ratio degrade. That works for spending a few minutes on FB, skimming to see what's up with friends or family, but not for reading long forum threads on reddit.
Ads make the signal to noise ratio degrade. That works for spending a few minutes on FB, skimming to see what's up with friends or family, but not for reading long forum threads on reddit.
Facebook doesn't just serve ads. They have high quality identity and market data on their users that is very appealing to advertisers looking to spend their money on specific targets. I don't think reddit is currently able to supply advertisers with data of that quality. I assume forcing people to sign up with an email or use the app instead of the website are attempts at bridging that gap.
Facebook has best-in-class behavioral advertising tools, and can be used to create highly specific segments for ad targeting. You can sell pretty much anything on Facebook, so that attracts advertisers.
Reddit on the other hand has a bunch of anonymous users whose preferences are much harder to figure out.
Reddit on the other hand has a bunch of anonymous users whose preferences are much harder to figure out.
Reddit users pour their personalities and interests into their comments. They are highly targetable.
Like I said, Facebook has better tools. Reddit is rock bottom when it comes to their ad product. They should have swallowed Twitter's business when their advertisers started fleeing, but they haven't.
You cannot use Facebook without creating an account and giving them a shit ton of data about yourself and your entire network. That data is what is used to show ads on all their properties and all over the internet. Reddit's user base on the other hand is mostly anonymous.
[deleted]
> Twitter is unprofitable. Reddit is unprofitable.
At least for Twitter and Reddit, these could be profitable. There's so much fucking garbage done on both platforms... remember the hexagon NFT profile pictures on Twitter or Reddit's NFT avatars? Who in their right mind other than cryptobros would/did buy these, and how much developer attention got sucked in by these projects? Reddit has around 2.000 employees, what are they doing all day long, given that most moderation is being done literally for free?
At least for Twitter and Reddit, these could be profitable. There's so much fucking garbage done on both platforms... remember the hexagon NFT profile pictures on Twitter or Reddit's NFT avatars? Who in their right mind other than cryptobros would/did buy these, and how much developer attention got sucked in by these projects? Reddit has around 2.000 employees, what are they doing all day long, given that most moderation is being done literally for free?
I believe the difference is that when Digg screwed up the redesign Reddit was ready to take its refugees. When the Reddit fiasco happened last year there was no clear place to migrate to.
Having said that, and being perhaps too negative, do we know how alive Reddit actually is? Because once you factor the power users that left, the bots reposting top comments on reposted stories, the auto-generated content and the shills it is possible that Reddit has already started its decline but hasn't noticed yet.
Having said that, and being perhaps too negative, do we know how alive Reddit actually is? Because once you factor the power users that left, the bots reposting top comments on reposted stories, the auto-generated content and the shills it is possible that Reddit has already started its decline but hasn't noticed yet.
Back to Digg? :)
My account on Reddit, and so as I am the founder also the sub r/AmazonRedshift, on 2023-09-30 looked to have been banned by an automated system.
The sub appeared to be working normally, I posted about the Amazon Redshift Serverless PDF, and then Reddit began behaving oddly.
After some investigation, and some guesswork, I concluded my account had been silently shadow-banned, and the sub banned (and then shortly after, deleted).
(Shadow-banning means when you log in as yourself, you see all your posts, and you see them in the threads where they were made. If you view Reddit when logged out, you then see all your posts have been deleted.)
Two years of posts and the sub disappeared, instantly, abruptly, without warning, reason, appeal process or notification, and Reddit is trying to lead me into thinking my account is still active. Make of that what you will.
Having had that experience, I concluded Reddit is not a safe place to invest time in.
The sub appeared to be working normally, I posted about the Amazon Redshift Serverless PDF, and then Reddit began behaving oddly.
After some investigation, and some guesswork, I concluded my account had been silently shadow-banned, and the sub banned (and then shortly after, deleted).
(Shadow-banning means when you log in as yourself, you see all your posts, and you see them in the threads where they were made. If you view Reddit when logged out, you then see all your posts have been deleted.)
Two years of posts and the sub disappeared, instantly, abruptly, without warning, reason, appeal process or notification, and Reddit is trying to lead me into thinking my account is still active. Make of that what you will.
Having had that experience, I concluded Reddit is not a safe place to invest time in.
The lack of transparency with this stuff is really annoying.
I guess they want to hide it from users so their admins aren't flooded with users complaining or something? Or so spam bots keep running in circles? But it's ripe for abuse and false positives. Most users wouldn't know what "shadow banned" even means or that it exists.
I guess they want to hide it from users so their admins aren't flooded with users complaining or something? Or so spam bots keep running in circles? But it's ripe for abuse and false positives. Most users wouldn't know what "shadow banned" even means or that it exists.
Yeah the point of shadow banning is so that trolls/bots continue to scream into the void, rather than creating a new account. I'm guessing it's only so long before human trolls notice, and I'm guessing that bots could just have automated ways of checking ("was my last post visible to an unauthenticated user?")
This argument never made sense as it's trivial to verify even for most amateur bot creators. Just pull the public page and check if the comment is there - that's like a single line of code: Selector(httpx.get(url)).xpath("//div[text(),'my comment']")
Very easy to verify. Make a post, go to the permalink, log out, and see if your post is still visible.
Strange article. Is this an attempt to drum up enthusiasm pre ipo?
it is pg's tradition to blog memories about YC founders when they IPO. calm down
Though presumably he can have both sincere and cynical motivations for such blog posts.
Tradition? Which other IPOs has he done this for?
the Airbnbs would be the previous one
https://paulgraham.com/airbnbs.html
https://paulgraham.com/airbnbs.html
I had the exact same thought and I’m guessing most others did too.
Definitely
It's very weird that for as many problems as Reddit has, there doesn't seem to be any serious VC-funded competition. Why is that? Every other social site has a half dozen well-capitalized competitors. Is it because Twitter/X and TikTok occupy all of the social media attention? Or because a forum is filled with mostly young people simply isn't a scalable business?
Network effects dominate all other forces when it comes to communities.
Sure but there have been numerous exodus moments from Reddit over the last ±5 years. Even today, my feeling is that no one really likes posting on Reddit itself, it's just kind of...there. There aren't any alternatives.
It's a very different situation from say, TikTok vs. Facebook, in which I think TikTok is simply a superior product.
It's a very different situation from say, TikTok vs. Facebook, in which I think TikTok is simply a superior product.
> it's just kind of...there. There aren't any alternatives.
Yes, that's the network effect in action.
It's like having a bar you don't like that all your friends go to. You can try going to another bar, but your friends aren't there. You can try to talk your friends into going to the other bar with you but their friends are still at the first bar.
Communities are incredibly sticky.
> It's a very different situation from say, TikTok vs. Facebook
That's largely because Facebook has gradually shifted away from being a community-oriented product and largely to a media-consumption one.
If you're getting on Facebook to see pictures of your friends' kids, then some other app with a beautiful UX that has very nice pictures of strangers' children is not at all compelling. You're not there for the quality of the kid pics, you're there because it's your friends' kids.
But if you're just getting on Facebook to scroll through memes and videos made by strangers (but perhaps incidentally reposted by people you know), then another app that shows you funnier memes and more entertaining videos will easily snap you up.
The fact that Facebook transitioned away from extremely sticky community-oriented features towards mass popular media consumption seems like a shitty business strategy to me, but that's what they've done.
Reddit is definitely going in that direction too. The mobile app in particular pushes you towards image and video subreddits, and it's inevitably harder to comment when using a phone where typing is a chore. Maybe that hardware transition is the root cause leading us away from more community-oriented apps.
But, so far, Reddit still has enough community interaction to be very sticky. We'll see how long that lasts given the direction it's headed.
Yes, that's the network effect in action.
It's like having a bar you don't like that all your friends go to. You can try going to another bar, but your friends aren't there. You can try to talk your friends into going to the other bar with you but their friends are still at the first bar.
Communities are incredibly sticky.
> It's a very different situation from say, TikTok vs. Facebook
That's largely because Facebook has gradually shifted away from being a community-oriented product and largely to a media-consumption one.
If you're getting on Facebook to see pictures of your friends' kids, then some other app with a beautiful UX that has very nice pictures of strangers' children is not at all compelling. You're not there for the quality of the kid pics, you're there because it's your friends' kids.
But if you're just getting on Facebook to scroll through memes and videos made by strangers (but perhaps incidentally reposted by people you know), then another app that shows you funnier memes and more entertaining videos will easily snap you up.
The fact that Facebook transitioned away from extremely sticky community-oriented features towards mass popular media consumption seems like a shitty business strategy to me, but that's what they've done.
Reddit is definitely going in that direction too. The mobile app in particular pushes you towards image and video subreddits, and it's inevitably harder to comment when using a phone where typing is a chore. Maybe that hardware transition is the root cause leading us away from more community-oriented apps.
But, so far, Reddit still has enough community interaction to be very sticky. We'll see how long that lasts given the direction it's headed.
Reddit has had a lot of trouble with revenue, as I understand it. Not an inspiring field to move into.
What I don't understand is the compensation. It is multiples and multiples of anything any similar company pays, albeit complicated by the fact that most similar companies are public and while CEO pay might _only_ be limited to a few million annually, there's usually millions in stock grants.
I wonder if that was his play, but, again, it should have been equity. I don't care who you are, the odds of you having an impact versus someone else to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars a year are miniscule. Good for you if you get to join the club, I guess. But if we have learned anything the last few decades (Musk, Welch, Fiorina, Schwartz, Lay, Ebbers) is that the louder they are the more likely they believe their own legend and screw up. We don't like Jobs around here, but he's maybe the last CEO that was probably worth the hundreds of millions/billions. My perspective (due to my job) is probably different than a lot of peoples, I see leadership failures all day every day.
I wonder if that was his play, but, again, it should have been equity. I don't care who you are, the odds of you having an impact versus someone else to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars a year are miniscule. Good for you if you get to join the club, I guess. But if we have learned anything the last few decades (Musk, Welch, Fiorina, Schwartz, Lay, Ebbers) is that the louder they are the more likely they believe their own legend and screw up. We don't like Jobs around here, but he's maybe the last CEO that was probably worth the hundreds of millions/billions. My perspective (due to my job) is probably different than a lot of peoples, I see leadership failures all day every day.
You don’t think Cook or Nadella are worth it?
Isn't Cook going to make something like ~$65m this year? That's half of the Reddits CEO. And Tim Apple (kidding) is a logistics expert who has done an excellent job stewarding Apple. He's fairly impressive. I think Nadella's comp is similar.
Look, it's not my job on this planet to decide what people should make. But I do think the vast majority of CEO's lack vision, true leadership skills, etc. We can point to a few exceptions at the largest companies, but there are millions of CEOs.
Hell, Musk proves the point for us, supposedly CEO is is the hardest, most challenging and unforgiving job there is, yet somehow that clown is CEO/president/chief architect of 5 or 6 companies (and he spends more time on social media in a day than I do in a month, and I'm only running one very very small firm).
Look, it's not my job on this planet to decide what people should make. But I do think the vast majority of CEO's lack vision, true leadership skills, etc. We can point to a few exceptions at the largest companies, but there are millions of CEOs.
Hell, Musk proves the point for us, supposedly CEO is is the hardest, most challenging and unforgiving job there is, yet somehow that clown is CEO/president/chief architect of 5 or 6 companies (and he spends more time on social media in a day than I do in a month, and I'm only running one very very small firm).
This article understates how big the content discovery problem was on the web, at those times. Delicious, Digg, Stumbleupon, Reddit and a million others.
Reddit is the Craigslist of content discovery, in so many ways.
Reddit is the Craigslist of content discovery, in so many ways.
Except craigslist makes a ton of money
Reddit had $900 million in revenue last year.
But how much profit? And how much of that revenue was spent on spez's comp?
Appears to be about $341k
""A Securities and Exchange Commission filing said Huffman in 2023 got a salary of $341,346, which is relatively low for a CEO of a major public corporation. In February, this was raised to $550,000. He also got a $792,000 bonus last year based on Reddit's user numbers, revenue, and a type of profitability known as adjusted EBITDA that excludes certain expenses."
"The bulk of his compensation package is now in restricted stock units and stock options. A lot of this compensation is based on Huffman staying at Reddit through late 2028, and some is triggered by completing Reddit's initial public offering, the SEC filing said.
Half of the stock options vest at $25.29, a relatively easy bar to reach. The other half vest only if Reddit shares reach $45, $60, and $90 in public-market trading over 10 years, the SEC filing says — that's a higher bar and aligns the CEO's interests with shareholders."
""A Securities and Exchange Commission filing said Huffman in 2023 got a salary of $341,346, which is relatively low for a CEO of a major public corporation. In February, this was raised to $550,000. He also got a $792,000 bonus last year based on Reddit's user numbers, revenue, and a type of profitability known as adjusted EBITDA that excludes certain expenses."
"The bulk of his compensation package is now in restricted stock units and stock options. A lot of this compensation is based on Huffman staying at Reddit through late 2028, and some is triggered by completing Reddit's initial public offering, the SEC filing said.
Half of the stock options vest at $25.29, a relatively easy bar to reach. The other half vest only if Reddit shares reach $45, $60, and $90 in public-market trading over 10 years, the SEC filing says — that's a higher bar and aligns the CEO's interests with shareholders."
They lost around 90 million dollars.
Kid named opex
And yet Craig Newmark is a billionaire and the owners of Reddit aren't. $900 million in revenue means nothing if you jettison it into the stratosphere.
A really good idea, that had an honest to the user direction originally, it seems the natural progression towards making financial sense for people who got involved unfortunately has pushed some of the communities away from it a bit.
It would be good to go back to a real user driven approach instead of "user driven, when values and priorities are in-line".
I've had many memorable years there, but after leaving I haven't felt I am missing anything special anymore. It's a lot of recycled content, bot heavy, power drunk mods.. I'll cross my fingers for an improvement but not so confident.
It would be good to go back to a real user driven approach instead of "user driven, when values and priorities are in-line".
I've had many memorable years there, but after leaving I haven't felt I am missing anything special anymore. It's a lot of recycled content, bot heavy, power drunk mods.. I'll cross my fingers for an improvement but not so confident.
Reddit banned my account without warning because I created a Reddit API mirror. I even followed their API docs by including my Reddit username in the user agent used by my HTTP client, I thought I was giving them the ability to reach out if the mirror was causing them pain but nah, they just banned me.
It was at that point that I realised all the protests that were happening weren’t going to go nowhere, and indeed that is what happened. Reddit has lost its way ever in a major way in the pursuit of profit.
It was at that point that I realised all the protests that were happening weren’t going to go nowhere, and indeed that is what happened. Reddit has lost its way ever in a major way in the pursuit of profit.
Reddit still makes me incredibly sad. I loved it. I was there for the first secret santa exchange and all of the historic events and it was amazing. It trully was a unique community and platform. Now it has been completely destroyed. Sadness.
For real, reddit introduced me to so many new ideas & concepts as a dumbass teen, and helped me a huge amount in getting through tough times.
I definitely would’ve been a different person today if I hadn’t found reddit, sad to see it is a shallower former-shell of what it was
I definitely would’ve been a different person today if I hadn’t found reddit, sad to see it is a shallower former-shell of what it was
Reddit going public meant reclaiming value they provided for "free" for users. The platform will only get worse for users as they try and claw their way to profitability.
Honestly I wish this would happen sooner rather than later. There's too many people on there being exposed to profanity, xenophobia, bigotry. I will applaud them for any decision that will drive more normal people away from their platform.
What's wrong with profanity?
[deleted]
Why is now the time for a reddit IPO? Is it because of the idea that "data is oil", and reddit can sell enterprise subscriptions to access to its data? Someone who has reviewed the S-1, how are they making money? And what's the point of the IPO, deploy more capital to accomplish what?
> it's almost unkillable.
Kills my iPhone XS Max daily though.
The navigation is completely broken as well. Some things don’t close, back button might or might not work, never seems to remember where I was before, frequently rescrolling stuff.
This is all after ad blocking.
Without it, endless spam of embedded ads distracting me, wasting my time. Janky loading, page hangs on clicks.
I’m not sure wtf their engineering team is doing but the site’s basically broken. Maybe it’s the normal state of things. Before I was using some third party app that was working great until Reddit killed api access.
My usage of it has dropped as well. It’s just unpleasant to use now.
Kills my iPhone XS Max daily though.
The navigation is completely broken as well. Some things don’t close, back button might or might not work, never seems to remember where I was before, frequently rescrolling stuff.
This is all after ad blocking.
Without it, endless spam of embedded ads distracting me, wasting my time. Janky loading, page hangs on clicks.
I’m not sure wtf their engineering team is doing but the site’s basically broken. Maybe it’s the normal state of things. Before I was using some third party app that was working great until Reddit killed api access.
My usage of it has dropped as well. It’s just unpleasant to use now.
It's remarkable that a San Francisco tech company with 2,000+ employees can't seem to produce an app that's half as good as Apollo, an app developed by one guy in Canada.
Different incentives. Apollo was made by someone who loved making software and wanting to build something nice for people. Reddit is made by a corporation interested only in extracting as much wealth from the platform as possible, with as little regard for users as they can get away with.
For a while, until he made sure every holiday stuffed the app with a repeating pop-up (think 5+ times over the holiday) that asked users to subscribe. Even users that already paid for the “Pro” version.
I forgot what he did when Apollo closed down but it was another big moneygrab.
The app itself always stayed pretty great, but the steady ramp up in monetization got increasingly annoying over the years.
I forgot what he did when Apollo closed down but it was another big moneygrab.
The app itself always stayed pretty great, but the steady ramp up in monetization got increasingly annoying over the years.
I remember the reports in r/apollo but I never experienced those issues myself. I don't know the guy personally so I can't make a judgement on if he was lying about that being a bug or not, but whatever the case it certainly wasn't something every user experienced.
Interesting, I used Apollo literally every day from launch to shutdown and did not have the same experience as you at all.
ryanisnan(5)
These are all good arguments in favor of Paul's assertion that "Reddit is unkillable".
I mean, people still use it despite a complete cluster-bombed design, intense push towards monetization at the cost of user experience, atrocious management and clear dictatorial tendencies from the top muffin, etc. It seems not even Reddit itself can kill Reddit despite their best tries.
It's in the nature of their moat: millions of tightly focused small forums, each easy to duplicate on their own, but together making the Reddit account a gateway to an enormous chunk of the user-generated internet. You open a Reddit, and not, say, a Telegram channel, because that's where the users are, ready to form a coherent community around your topic.
What might finally do Reddit in, or at least open vast markets for copycats, is its intense need to fit inside the narrow Overton window of American politics, in order to be palatable as a publicly traded company. This has already led to extremely heavy handed bans of major reddits and things can only get worse. If it reaches the breaking point, you will see a mass migration of not only the ideology driven communities, but also the neutral ones like fandoms, hobbyists etc., because they will move to where the users are.
I mean, people still use it despite a complete cluster-bombed design, intense push towards monetization at the cost of user experience, atrocious management and clear dictatorial tendencies from the top muffin, etc. It seems not even Reddit itself can kill Reddit despite their best tries.
It's in the nature of their moat: millions of tightly focused small forums, each easy to duplicate on their own, but together making the Reddit account a gateway to an enormous chunk of the user-generated internet. You open a Reddit, and not, say, a Telegram channel, because that's where the users are, ready to form a coherent community around your topic.
What might finally do Reddit in, or at least open vast markets for copycats, is its intense need to fit inside the narrow Overton window of American politics, in order to be palatable as a publicly traded company. This has already led to extremely heavy handed bans of major reddits and things can only get worse. If it reaches the breaking point, you will see a mass migration of not only the ideology driven communities, but also the neutral ones like fandoms, hobbyists etc., because they will move to where the users are.
> It's in the nature of their moat
On a tangent, what is the deal with the word moat and why is everybody using it all of a sudden? What does it mean?
On a tangent, what is the deal with the word moat and why is everybody using it all of a sudden? What does it mean?
"All of a sudden"? I've heard that term used for probably twenty years now, if not more, originating (IIRC) with Warren Buffet. What does the moat of a castle do? Keeps the baddies out. What does the "moat" of a business do? Keeps the competitors out. To take a recent example, what would Nvidia's moat be? A strong argument could be made that it's CUDA. For the sake of argument, let's say anyone could throw a bunch of silicon on a PCB and make a GPU equivalent to Nvidia's. Doesn't matter, because your cheapo GPU won't run the CUDA software that makes Nvidia's dominance possible.
To offer one more example out of my butt, take Apple. The Apple brand makes up at least some of their moat. You could build an exact clone of an iPhone that even runs latest iOS (assume for the sake of argument that there's a way to get the OS on your hardware). Doesn't matter, unless you're ready to infringe on trademarks by putting an Apple logo on there, few will buy it because they want Apple, not a functional work-alike.
To offer one more example out of my butt, take Apple. The Apple brand makes up at least some of their moat. You could build an exact clone of an iPhone that even runs latest iOS (assume for the sake of argument that there's a way to get the OS on your hardware). Doesn't matter, unless you're ready to infringe on trademarks by putting an Apple logo on there, few will buy it because they want Apple, not a functional work-alike.
"Competitive moat." It's a term Warren Buffett has used often to describe businesses that have an advantage that blocks competitors, like a moat around the wall of a castle. Control over intellectual property rights is an example of such a moat.
It's bizarre to me that they didn't acquire Apollo. It would have generated so much goodwill.
They already acquired Alien Blue, the (once) most popular and beloved mobile Reddit client. How much more goodwill does the company need?
My analysts are suggesting approximately 3.2 Goodwills
Well the core purpose of the official app is to slurp up as much user data as possible and deliver targeted ads.
My biggest fear is if they kill old.reddit.com . I can't use anything of the newer interface without pulling my hairs.
Yes, the day they kill old.reddit.com will be the day my Reddit usage drops to near-zero.
Same, I know one of the current devs browses HN and commented a couple of months ago that there was still a contingent of devs on the team who want to keep old.reddit.com alive - not sure how long for though!
glad to hear there is push-back preventing complete inshittifcation of reddit.
I'll miss AskHistorians. But thanks to Reddit having already weaned me from mobile usage, I'm psychologically ready to detach from yet another community.
> Reddit having already weaned me from mobile usage
That too. I'd like to thank whoever was responsible for Reddit's mobile redesign, because they cured my Reddit addiction. I can't count how many hours I've saved by not using their obnoxious, spammy new mobile UI.
That too. I'd like to thank whoever was responsible for Reddit's mobile redesign, because they cured my Reddit addiction. I can't count how many hours I've saved by not using their obnoxious, spammy new mobile UI.
For me, it is the API restriction that did it - Reddit is Fun was a stellar Android application, killing it ended my mobile usage. Everyone seemed aware it was going to be one of the effects of API restrictions - Reddit seems to have thought it was all right...
> I can't use anything of the newer interface without pulling my hairs.
Good luck with the "current" new design. The one that superseded old.reddit.com and got pretty decent is now on new.reddit.com, and the steaming pile of bull dung that is the current reddit.com if you're unlucky enough to get it forced upon you. And of course notifications on new.reddit.com will link to the bull dung version.
Good luck with the "current" new design. The one that superseded old.reddit.com and got pretty decent is now on new.reddit.com, and the steaming pile of bull dung that is the current reddit.com if you're unlucky enough to get it forced upon you. And of course notifications on new.reddit.com will link to the bull dung version.
Yeah the new new UI makes the old new UI seem awesome in comparison. I didn't actually mind the old new UI too much.
The thing is, this now matches Twitter/X: unpleasant in usability, increasingly unpleasant in content, lots of the good posters have left; BUT such a significant chunk of "normal" companies and users are doing social media through it that it survives nonetheless. And those frogs are pretty boil-resistant.
If there's a new game launched, where is the forum likely to be? Reddit. What search term do people add to try to bypass genAI content farms? Reddit.
If there's a new game launched, where is the forum likely to be? Reddit. What search term do people add to try to bypass genAI content farms? Reddit.
> What search term do people add to try to bypass genAI content farms? Reddit.
I suspect that if reddit loses its more bespoke content, adding 'reddit' to searches will be far less useful. However, even if not, I think those days are numbered as AI becomes more useful and more integrated into search; and as it replaces traditional search.
I suspect that if reddit loses its more bespoke content, adding 'reddit' to searches will be far less useful. However, even if not, I think those days are numbered as AI becomes more useful and more integrated into search; and as it replaces traditional search.
I was a frequent and enthusiastic contributor to dozens of niche subreddits about various techy topics, chiefly because it was a great way to kill time while using the restroom, shopping with the wife, all manner of things that are notable in that I don't have a computer. After using Apollo for so long, the reddit app is downright torture and I refuse to use it. I still occasionally reddit on a computer since the mobile experience is abysmal both in app and browser, but I'd be shocked if I manage 5% of my previous rate of activity.
On the one hand, thanks reddit, I got a ton of free time back. On the other hand, that time was previously spent generating value for your website, so not sure that was a good move for you.
Edit: Also, and this is strictly second-hand info from the Apollo dev who obviously is far from an unbiased source, but I have to admit alongside the thing just being objectively worse to use, my views of the reddit corporate structure also soured significantly. I think what they did with the API changes was a boneheaded move to be sure, but the way they went about it was so uniquely shitty to the people who had built small businesses around theirs that it truly boggled the mind. The dev for Apollo posted quite a bit around the "negotiations" if one wants to be generous and call them that in the lead up to the API changes, and the CEO just blatantly lied about him numerous times, in obvious ways, trying to paint him as this entitled kid in such a way that as a millennial, I have to admit I am THOROUGHLY sick of. Reddit as a company simply jacked the price, with barely any notice, refused to negotiate on a single point throughout and made numerous bad-faith claims about the developers who were (understandably) caught off guard.
Like if you just want to close the API, fine, close it. But then that would paint reddit as the obvious bad guy, so instead they went round the back way with this "api price change" that was so ludicrously expensive that no app could possibly cover it, and then reddit gets to PR speak the thing as "well we tried to work with developers" in a blatantly bullshit way without technically lying. It's gross and tiresome and frankly, insults the intelligence of every reddit user.
I can't say for certain if this wasn't the case that I'd still be using it more, as the app and mobile experiences are truly shit even without that. But this certainly has cooled my fervor to try to find ways to use it.
On the one hand, thanks reddit, I got a ton of free time back. On the other hand, that time was previously spent generating value for your website, so not sure that was a good move for you.
Edit: Also, and this is strictly second-hand info from the Apollo dev who obviously is far from an unbiased source, but I have to admit alongside the thing just being objectively worse to use, my views of the reddit corporate structure also soured significantly. I think what they did with the API changes was a boneheaded move to be sure, but the way they went about it was so uniquely shitty to the people who had built small businesses around theirs that it truly boggled the mind. The dev for Apollo posted quite a bit around the "negotiations" if one wants to be generous and call them that in the lead up to the API changes, and the CEO just blatantly lied about him numerous times, in obvious ways, trying to paint him as this entitled kid in such a way that as a millennial, I have to admit I am THOROUGHLY sick of. Reddit as a company simply jacked the price, with barely any notice, refused to negotiate on a single point throughout and made numerous bad-faith claims about the developers who were (understandably) caught off guard.
Like if you just want to close the API, fine, close it. But then that would paint reddit as the obvious bad guy, so instead they went round the back way with this "api price change" that was so ludicrously expensive that no app could possibly cover it, and then reddit gets to PR speak the thing as "well we tried to work with developers" in a blatantly bullshit way without technically lying. It's gross and tiresome and frankly, insults the intelligence of every reddit user.
I can't say for certain if this wasn't the case that I'd still be using it more, as the app and mobile experiences are truly shit even without that. But this certainly has cooled my fervor to try to find ways to use it.
On the other hand, that time was previously spent generating value for your website, so not sure that was a good move for you.
This is what I'd like to believe, but I fear it does not really make a difference. Reddit's audience has grown far beyond its initial tech roots and the quality outside a small subset of subreddits is... let's just call it devoid of content. It's barely a blip on the radar if the early adopter drop out, because they are by now a tiny subset of the population.
And I guess that's fine. Platforms have their lifecycle. And when a social media network is for-profit, the early adopters are often only important for the initial bootstrapping. Luckily there are nice places like LWN, HN, Lobste.rs and other more niche communities.
This is what I'd like to believe, but I fear it does not really make a difference. Reddit's audience has grown far beyond its initial tech roots and the quality outside a small subset of subreddits is... let's just call it devoid of content. It's barely a blip on the radar if the early adopter drop out, because they are by now a tiny subset of the population.
And I guess that's fine. Platforms have their lifecycle. And when a social media network is for-profit, the early adopters are often only important for the initial bootstrapping. Luckily there are nice places like LWN, HN, Lobste.rs and other more niche communities.
> It's barely a blip on the radar if the early adopter drop out, because they are by now a tiny subset of the population.
The thing is, when people append 'reddit' to their search query, who writes the posts that get linked? When someone is looking for a home wifi router and types 'mesh wifi6 reddit' in google and a post comes up from /r/homenetworking, it is almost certainly a response to a question from someone about setting up a wireless network, or it is a guide or a review by someone who just posted to get their knowledge out there. Who writes those? Not the people who upvote videos of dudes getting into a fight in Burger King.
The thing is, when people append 'reddit' to their search query, who writes the posts that get linked? When someone is looking for a home wifi router and types 'mesh wifi6 reddit' in google and a post comes up from /r/homenetworking, it is almost certainly a response to a question from someone about setting up a wireless network, or it is a guide or a review by someone who just posted to get their knowledge out there. Who writes those? Not the people who upvote videos of dudes getting into a fight in Burger King.
Moderation and how horrible is the Reddit app is the thing that turned me off most.
The fact that Reddit keeps growing despite it's flaws and terrible management, let alone moderation, says a lot about the combination of a simple but effective product and critical mass.
The fact that Reddit keeps growing despite it's flaws and terrible management, let alone moderation, says a lot about the combination of a simple but effective product and critical mass.
> Reddit has a certain personality — curious, skeptical, ready to be amused — and that personality is Steve's.
This really does not match my experience of the site. Citations are vanishingly rare and myths get repeated endlessly.
This really does not match my experience of the site. Citations are vanishingly rare and myths get repeated endlessly.
This thread is so sad. Reddit was a big important part of the internet for like 15 years. People used to do massive Reddit meetups all the time back around 2010, and some of them were really fun. I still have some very close, family like friends that I met at those meetups.
But now? Almost every comment here talks about how much they hate it. I honestly agree with the hate, and again that’s really sad to me.
I truly think it’s the moderators that destroyed it. Reddit didn’t do a good job of defining their roles, and they power tripped their way into community destroying behavior.
Half the people I know who used to run and attend meetups for my city’s subreddit are now banned from even participating in it, always from some stupid petty fight the moderators had with them[1]. It makes me wonder what types of people are still posting there?
[1] there was a big push a while ago to replace the community mods with people who do “social media” professionally. The old mods that live in my city and people know got semi-threatened with doxxing (hey nice job you have there do they know your Reddit account?) and removed themselves to be replaced by “professionals”. Such pathetic internet drama.
Anyway: we all collectively pour one out for the Reddit that once was. It can go to internet heaven with fark, slashdot, digg, stumbleupon, delicious, etc.
But now? Almost every comment here talks about how much they hate it. I honestly agree with the hate, and again that’s really sad to me.
I truly think it’s the moderators that destroyed it. Reddit didn’t do a good job of defining their roles, and they power tripped their way into community destroying behavior.
Half the people I know who used to run and attend meetups for my city’s subreddit are now banned from even participating in it, always from some stupid petty fight the moderators had with them[1]. It makes me wonder what types of people are still posting there?
[1] there was a big push a while ago to replace the community mods with people who do “social media” professionally. The old mods that live in my city and people know got semi-threatened with doxxing (hey nice job you have there do they know your Reddit account?) and removed themselves to be replaced by “professionals”. Such pathetic internet drama.
Anyway: we all collectively pour one out for the Reddit that once was. It can go to internet heaven with fark, slashdot, digg, stumbleupon, delicious, etc.
I agree about the mods being a major driving force behind reddit's accelerating enshittification. It went very fast from a platform for exchanging interests and ideas to personal fiefdoms of sub moderators and their private political beliefs.
And it doesn't help that all major subs are modded by the same narrow group of people. How reddit the company has no problems with that is beyond me. Apparently that's exactly what they want.
And it doesn't help that all major subs are modded by the same narrow group of people. How reddit the company has no problems with that is beyond me. Apparently that's exactly what they want.
It’s funny seeing pg talk about Steve being anti authority, when the authorities of reddit are such a negative part of it.
It’s quite alarming how reddit has made no effort to encourage a higher quality of moderators.
It’s quite alarming how reddit has made no effort to encourage a higher quality of moderators.
I find Reddit to be wayyy too political for one side (that’s usually how clustering works) but without another guiding interest -like Tech here- it consumes and spreads to everything.
The admin are kinder to banning the opposing Red team people who congregate there. I don’t mind this, but it selects for annoying people.
This is further confusing when the site has many European users who are not even aware of the US political game.
(look at the frontpage any day, it’s all Blue tribe with maybe 3-4 neutral animal posts. Why can’t it be 20 neutral things with 3-4 political posts?)
The admin are kinder to banning the opposing Red team people who congregate there. I don’t mind this, but it selects for annoying people.
This is further confusing when the site has many European users who are not even aware of the US political game.
(look at the frontpage any day, it’s all Blue tribe with maybe 3-4 neutral animal posts. Why can’t it be 20 neutral things with 3-4 political posts?)
Sorry, as European I don't understand how anyone can be team Red nowadays. I have respect for conservative viewpoint but Republican party got overtaken by very dangerous and at the same time stupid people. Democratic party might be corrupt and maybe focusing on wrong things but they are not trying to destroy democracy and outlaw human beings.
Since Reddit demographics is mostly young and educated, no wonder it's leaning Blue.
(The amount of tankie delusion on Reddit baffles me as well though)
Since Reddit demographics is mostly young and educated, no wonder it's leaning Blue.
(The amount of tankie delusion on Reddit baffles me as well though)
>but they are not trying to destroy democracy and outlaw human beings.
1. Trying to destroy democracy how?
2. Trying to outlaw human beings how?
Be specific. Because you are parroting mainstream media nonsense, but you are likely just ignorant as a European.
1. Trying to destroy democracy how?
2. Trying to outlaw human beings how?
Be specific. Because you are parroting mainstream media nonsense, but you are likely just ignorant as a European.
This wiki article is pretty tame explanation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
> (The amount of tankie delusion on Reddit baffles me as well though)
I really love it when people think there's a "real" left anymore on Reddit. It was thoroughly decimated in 2016 and most left for Lemmy, Hexbear or Yesterweb
I really love it when people think there's a "real" left anymore on Reddit. It was thoroughly decimated in 2016 and most left for Lemmy, Hexbear or Yesterweb
From all the social medias, Reddit is the biggest echo chamber.
The voting system that glorifies posts that are voted by the community and hides posts that don't go with majority's opinion creates that one-sided effect.
I don't spend a lot of time on Reddit but whenever I do, I always see the most left-leaning naive takes being upvoted massively.
The voting system that glorifies posts that are voted by the community and hides posts that don't go with majority's opinion creates that one-sided effect.
I don't spend a lot of time on Reddit but whenever I do, I always see the most left-leaning naive takes being upvoted massively.
HN's political "neutrality" is predicated on the fact that a lot of this site is rooted in convincing billionaires and multimillionaires to give you money for a passion project, and any kind of redistributive policies means that there's less money for them to give to you.
If you excised the startup founder culture from HN (which you cant) you'd be left with a bunch of straight forward Dem party politics guys and a handful of libertarians.
If you excised the startup founder culture from HN (which you cant) you'd be left with a bunch of straight forward Dem party politics guys and a handful of libertarians.
Paulg taking a victory lap in really odd fashion: telling a couple of kids what he wanted them to build, saying he predicted ordering fast food on your cellphones was a bad idea and still can’t be done today (DoorDash?). This whole write-up seems off.
Agreed. It feels forced. "Hey Paul, we're doing an IPO soon, can you write something about how cool we are?"
My thoughts exactly. PG just writing a fluff piece to try to get them a lil IPO pop.
I admire pg. But I kind of doubt anything he writes will make any difference for the Reddit IPO.
Also this:
> Steve is not out of ideas yet.
Could this refer to the hugely innovative Reddit live chat (/s), or the idea to alienate many of it's most dedicated users by killing their favorite clients?
> Steve is not out of ideas yet.
Could this refer to the hugely innovative Reddit live chat (/s), or the idea to alienate many of it's most dedicated users by killing their favorite clients?
The only good idea he had was to fellate pg’s ego and write Reddit in lisp, which is all of talked about in those days. Seems to have a need to be proven that he was a right clever boy.
Yeah, I don't understand what he even means.
>a way to order fast food on your cellphone.
>[...]So it was not going to happen. It still doesn't exist, 19 years later.
How does this not exist?? If there was a further problem with their idea why did he describe it in the way of something that not only exists but is super popular? Has he grown completely out of touch or what's going on?
>a way to order fast food on your cellphone.
>[...]So it was not going to happen. It still doesn't exist, 19 years later.
How does this not exist?? If there was a further problem with their idea why did he describe it in the way of something that not only exists but is super popular? Has he grown completely out of touch or what's going on?
What they were probably pitching 19 years ago would have been ordering via SMS on basic phones, most likely via USSD codes. That’s why he mentioned contracts with cell networks, as they’d need to secure numbers and codes.
That model absolutely has taken off, just not in places where everyone has smartphones. USSD services - driven by basic text menus - powers everything from microtransactions to ordering food to accessing government services in many parts of Africa to this day:
https://africastalking.com/ussd
That model absolutely has taken off, just not in places where everyone has smartphones. USSD services - driven by basic text menus - powers everything from microtransactions to ordering food to accessing government services in many parts of Africa to this day:
https://africastalking.com/ussd
I took it to mean "an app like this created by Steve and Alexis still doesn't exist."
It gave me pause though, as it's a weird way to phrase it.
It gave me pause though, as it's a weird way to phrase it.
I'm pretty sure he knows what Doordash is. I assume the thing that doesn't exist is ordering via a phone line, not an internet-based interface.
i.e. texting or calling a number in a specific way based on some standard tons of fast food places provide to make fast food orders without human interaction.
i.e. texting or calling a number in a specific way based on some standard tons of fast food places provide to make fast food orders without human interaction.
I've seen text to order food where you pay at pickup. There seem to be some systems out there.
https://www.usfoods.com/our-services/business-trends/text-to...
https://www.usfoods.com/our-services/business-trends/text-to...
It still seems pretty disingenuous to say it doesn't exist even today just because we do the same thing with better tech today - very likely what their hypothetical company would've ended up doing, same as Netflix or Twitter embracing the technology for their use cases and moving away from DVDs and SMS.
I really think he's trying to pussyfoot around his poorly-aged claim by changing the goalpost. Even in 2005, with Domino's order tracker, it was still a purposely-contrarian stance on what technology would allow us to do with food ordering in the near future. If this is considered a hill to die on, that's embarrassing.
PG essays from the 2000s felt insightful and honest. The latter-day stuff is veering dangerously close to A16z.com fluff.
Yeah, it's definitely marketing.
Re: ordering food by cellphone: paulg probably means doordash but via texts or calls navigating a tree of choices, as opposed to in an app/browser. Hence his vocabulary choice of "cellphone" not "smartphone".
You could even charge customers food orders indirectly via premium SMS texts. Without having to sign up for an account.
You could even charge customers food orders indirectly via premium SMS texts. Without having to sign up for an account.
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Isn't ordering food on your phone huge everywhere?
The people who cultivate Reddit communities are not the owners of Reddit, or the paid engineers of Reddit. Reddit isn't good because of Steve, or any of its leaders, the good and bad parts alike are 100% because of its users and unpaid moderators. Reddit is a tool, and the users have used the tool to create a massive site that contains a gigantic variety of subcultures, including ones that hate each other.
Any "innovations" Reddit has made in the past decade have been making the UI worse and borderline unusable in poor attempts to monetize the site. It offers video hosting that it does poorly, an "improved UI" that it does poorly, chat that it does poorly, some nebulous web3 things that it also did poorly, and now is going to pretend that using Reddit as a training set won't result in a very unskilled, and exceedingly confident of its own correctness, chatbot. Spez has no vision for Reddit, and clearly neither does Paul. The way to make Reddit great is to empower the communities and moderators, and instead Reddit has done the opposite, because - let's be real here - Steve Huffman doesn't want to create a cool website or a useful tool, he wants to IPO and become a billionaire and ride off into the sunset.
Any "innovations" Reddit has made in the past decade have been making the UI worse and borderline unusable in poor attempts to monetize the site. It offers video hosting that it does poorly, an "improved UI" that it does poorly, chat that it does poorly, some nebulous web3 things that it also did poorly, and now is going to pretend that using Reddit as a training set won't result in a very unskilled, and exceedingly confident of its own correctness, chatbot. Spez has no vision for Reddit, and clearly neither does Paul. The way to make Reddit great is to empower the communities and moderators, and instead Reddit has done the opposite, because - let's be real here - Steve Huffman doesn't want to create a cool website or a useful tool, he wants to IPO and become a billionaire and ride off into the sunset.
Amazing that reddit hits $54 from a ipo of 34$ and all I see on HN is negativity … about how it doesn't make money … about how it has a bad user experience … about how it doesn’t credit the mods … about how it hurt the third party developers.
Yada yada yada. Look if anything you should learn from this, its this. User experience doesn't have to be terrific. API after a good growth trajectory is less advantageous. There are no competitions for moderators because moderators are a dime a dozen. And you don’t have to make money if you’re growing or are a game changer (wallstreetbets).
You just have to be here for the long run. The run when digg failed. The run when twitter went all the way into the hole. The run when facebook becomes friendster. The run when instagram becomes exhausting. The run when threads starts losing interest. The run when google stops giving good results so you keep going to reddit. The run when Microsoft office has bad help articles and so you must ask reddit. The run when stack exchange becomes a cesspool of tired experts but they find Reddit more enjoyable. The run when all of the memes words like AmA and OP and poopstick are not just geek words but real life issues that pervade every platform… like HN.
The long run.
Yada yada yada. Look if anything you should learn from this, its this. User experience doesn't have to be terrific. API after a good growth trajectory is less advantageous. There are no competitions for moderators because moderators are a dime a dozen. And you don’t have to make money if you’re growing or are a game changer (wallstreetbets).
You just have to be here for the long run. The run when digg failed. The run when twitter went all the way into the hole. The run when facebook becomes friendster. The run when instagram becomes exhausting. The run when threads starts losing interest. The run when google stops giving good results so you keep going to reddit. The run when Microsoft office has bad help articles and so you must ask reddit. The run when stack exchange becomes a cesspool of tired experts but they find Reddit more enjoyable. The run when all of the memes words like AmA and OP and poopstick are not just geek words but real life issues that pervade every platform… like HN.
The long run.
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Is this just a promo puff piece for the IPO?
Reddit faked the initial users with bots to pretend it was active. Then we got the mysterious “subreddit simulator” which somehow had full read access to the database.
Now we have a website where all the content seems to be from bots, right before they sell.
I like reddit because it has every topic on it but it’s trash now. It’s not unkillable. Fundamentally it’s just a forum where users create their own subforums.
Now we have a website where all the content seems to be from bots, right before they sell.
I like reddit because it has every topic on it but it’s trash now. It’s not unkillable. Fundamentally it’s just a forum where users create their own subforums.
I always liked the reddits (Steve and Alexis), but I'm not overly fond of what reddit has become.
And, I fear the beatings will continue until morale improves. I just don't think the incentives are aligned with building a good community, anymore, so there's nothing pushing reddit toward becoming good again and many things pushing toward exploitation of the near two decades of conversation found there.
And, I fear the beatings will continue until morale improves. I just don't think the incentives are aligned with building a good community, anymore, so there's nothing pushing reddit toward becoming good again and many things pushing toward exploitation of the near two decades of conversation found there.
reddit's success shows how much luck and timing is involved. It was basically a digg clone until digg imploded on their own and everyone flocked to reddit. Kevin rose should be listed as a cofounder.
Digg was just a poor man's fark!
fark pioneered foobies and i really have to think reddit nsfw has some of the biggest communities
Posts like this timed with the IPO remind me this forum is basically a marketing engine.
Let’s not ever forget that.
Let’s not ever forget that.
Y Combinator is an investment firm, Reddit is a Y Combinator-funded company, Paul Graham is an essayist who had Y Combinator invest in Reddit, and this is news.ycombinator.com (where people often like to read things written by Paul Graham and things written about YC companies). It's both an interesting recollection and something to help the IPO. Is it really so bad if it's both?
> It's an interesting recollection
Replace recollection with "revisionist history"
Replace recollection with "revisionist history"
HN is a social media platform. I think the kind of marketing going on in HN is decently acceptable. This post was still very interesting to me, which fits the spirit of HN.
I’m anti-spam myself, but I wouldn’t draw that conclusion from this post. It’s a post that links to a blog post on the YC primary domain site (that is, their company site), and we are on a YC forum hosted on a subdomain of the parent YC domain.
I wouldn’t visit Reddit’s blog and interpret talk about their successes there as indicating that the entire forum(s?) exist for marketing the parent.
And although, the HN forum itself definitely is great marketing, I mean to say that not all the content is marketing for YC.
I also wouldn’t draw that conclusion if someone who worked at Reddit submitted the blog post to a subreddit and it got upvoted there.
Unless it was boosted here, it’s only on the front page because of others voting it up. It’s more likely that it’s the PG effect!
I wouldn’t visit Reddit’s blog and interpret talk about their successes there as indicating that the entire forum(s?) exist for marketing the parent.
And although, the HN forum itself definitely is great marketing, I mean to say that not all the content is marketing for YC.
I also wouldn’t draw that conclusion if someone who worked at Reddit submitted the blog post to a subreddit and it got upvoted there.
Unless it was boosted here, it’s only on the front page because of others voting it up. It’s more likely that it’s the PG effect!
HN is literally marketing....
Startups literally "launch" on here whether they're Y Combinator affiliates or not.
The content of any forum cannot be mostly marketing, because that literally means there's a lack of organic impressions and the money / time /effort is better spent elsewhere.
>It’s more likely that it’s the PG effect!
You've described a marketing phenomenon.
Startups literally "launch" on here whether they're Y Combinator affiliates or not.
The content of any forum cannot be mostly marketing, because that literally means there's a lack of organic impressions and the money / time /effort is better spent elsewhere.
>It’s more likely that it’s the PG effect!
You've described a marketing phenomenon.
That is, unfortunately, the vast majority of the Internet at this point.
I have a hard time conceiving of a platform one could currently make that would not become closer to a marketing platform the more user engagement it receives.
Maybe niche BBs or a platform with enough distasteful content that no company wants their brand associated with it. (Ex. 4chan)
Maybe niche BBs or a platform with enough distasteful content that no company wants their brand associated with it. (Ex. 4chan)
uaserussia(1)
Wait, I have a javascript framework I want to tell you about....
They've never tried to hide that (to their credit)
Anecdotes: I interacted with both Alexis and Steve, at different times in the history of Reddit.
With Alexis: in the early days of Reddit. First was to ask him some general questions, probably. (Don't fully recollect.)
Then he mentioned that they have just created this new feature called subreddits, and that any user can create a subreddit. I was into Ruby at that time, so I created one for Ruby. Didn't use it much, though, after that. I don't know if the current Ruby subreddit is the one I created or not.
With Steve: years later, I was consulting to a new fintech SaaS startup, in it's earliest stage, so was helping them with requirements, high level app design and database design, and forms (UI). I pinged Steve with a few questions about architecture and technology, since Reddit was already at scale, and he replied with some suggestions.
With Alexis: in the early days of Reddit. First was to ask him some general questions, probably. (Don't fully recollect.)
Then he mentioned that they have just created this new feature called subreddits, and that any user can create a subreddit. I was into Ruby at that time, so I created one for Ruby. Didn't use it much, though, after that. I don't know if the current Ruby subreddit is the one I created or not.
With Steve: years later, I was consulting to a new fintech SaaS startup, in it's earliest stage, so was helping them with requirements, high level app design and database design, and forms (UI). I pinged Steve with a few questions about architecture and technology, since Reddit was already at scale, and he replied with some suggestions.
The Ruby thing is semi-interesting, but this reads like a lame claim to fame. "Hey, I asked questions to these famous guys once! Probably, I don't remember fully..."
JFC. You belong on Reddit, not here. :)
Don't read meanings or motives into statements where none exist. No one should, and you in particular are very poor at it.
I said "anecdotes", right at the start. I didn't make any claim to fame, or think of it, even. Don't judge others by how your mind works.
Even your judgement is poor. If anything, I would say the Steve anecdote is more interesting than the Ruby one, because it shows a somewhat famous guy willing to give advice to an unknown person.
Now, go back under your rock.
Don't read meanings or motives into statements where none exist. No one should, and you in particular are very poor at it.
I said "anecdotes", right at the start. I didn't make any claim to fame, or think of it, even. Don't judge others by how your mind works.
Even your judgement is poor. If anything, I would say the Steve anecdote is more interesting than the Ruby one, because it shows a somewhat famous guy willing to give advice to an unknown person.
Now, go back under your rock.
I just do not think your original comment is useful to other people. Your anecdotes don't reveal any new information other than how you asked Alexis something, you might have made the Ruby subreddit maybe, and Steve answered your questions about a startup. This is benign information unless someone is trying to learn about you personally. Half of your two paragraphs is talking about what you were doing; if you'd helped them make some Reddit feature or your discussions had revealed something interesting/unique about themselves or Reddit, we might have something. But as it stands, your comment is linked to the subject matter in a trivial manner, and your anecdotes are quite benign. It's a low value story.
In the absence of usefulness, I'm left to surmise the other possible motivations for you to be posting it. One of those being that you want to let others know that you personally interacted with these famous people, or you see yourself as important to the story. This would give you some gratification, so it's not entirely illogical to consider this as a motivating factor. Apart from the technical subject matter, the value of your original comment is akin to a Taylor Swift fan saying they met Taylor once, and they talked about the weather. It's a nice reflection on Taylor to have set the time aside, just like it's a nice reflection on Steve to have answered questions, but neither is groundbreaking enough to be interesting to strangers.
Not that my comments are particularly useful. But my comments aren't top-level discussion starters, they are direct replies to you in absence of a direct message feature.
In the absence of usefulness, I'm left to surmise the other possible motivations for you to be posting it. One of those being that you want to let others know that you personally interacted with these famous people, or you see yourself as important to the story. This would give you some gratification, so it's not entirely illogical to consider this as a motivating factor. Apart from the technical subject matter, the value of your original comment is akin to a Taylor Swift fan saying they met Taylor once, and they talked about the weather. It's a nice reflection on Taylor to have set the time aside, just like it's a nice reflection on Steve to have answered questions, but neither is groundbreaking enough to be interesting to strangers.
Not that my comments are particularly useful. But my comments aren't top-level discussion starters, they are direct replies to you in absence of a direct message feature.
*
1 point by fuzztester 0 minutes ago | root | parent | next | edit | delete [–]
>Not that my comments are particularly useful.
Going by your own logic, why comment, then? To put down others? Won't work, dork.
Right on. Your comments are worse than useless, actually.
Wow, such a pious, holier-than-thou and long-winded comment, Priscilla, er, Prudence, er, Pathetica. :)
Exactly as you presume to judge me and comment about me, without sufficient basis or knowledge about me, I will now do the same to you. Let's see how you handle it:
I hereby declare your novitiate status successfully ended. You are now officially a nun of the Convent of No Reason but Full of Bile and Weakness, Envy and Hate, in the Year of Our Lord, 2024.
Enjoy the rest of your miserable nunnified life.
1 point by fuzztester 0 minutes ago | root | parent | next | edit | delete [–]
>Not that my comments are particularly useful.
Going by your own logic, why comment, then? To put down others? Won't work, dork.
Right on. Your comments are worse than useless, actually.
Wow, such a pious, holier-than-thou and long-winded comment, Priscilla, er, Prudence, er, Pathetica. :)
Exactly as you presume to judge me and comment about me, without sufficient basis or knowledge about me, I will now do the same to you. Let's see how you handle it:
I hereby declare your novitiate status successfully ended. You are now officially a nun of the Convent of No Reason but Full of Bile and Weakness, Envy and Hate, in the Year of Our Lord, 2024.
Enjoy the rest of your miserable nunnified life.
> dork
Wow, you're riled up. Even got the "I'm not raging, look I'm brushing it off" smiley emoticons.
> Priscilla, er, Prudence, er, Pathetica. :) [...] You are now officially a nun of the Convent of No Reason but Full of Bile and Weakness, Envy and Hate, in the Year of Our Lord, 2024.
Either I don't get the reference, or that's just... unhinged. It seems like you also slipped and pasted some of the comment header at the start of the reply. Maybe take a break from the internet for a bit, I'm sorry my comment upset you so much.
Wow, you're riled up. Even got the "I'm not raging, look I'm brushing it off" smiley emoticons.
> Priscilla, er, Prudence, er, Pathetica. :) [...] You are now officially a nun of the Convent of No Reason but Full of Bile and Weakness, Envy and Hate, in the Year of Our Lord, 2024.
Either I don't get the reference, or that's just... unhinged. It seems like you also slipped and pasted some of the comment header at the start of the reply. Maybe take a break from the internet for a bit, I'm sorry my comment upset you so much.
>Wow, you're riled up. Even got the "I'm not raging, look I'm brushing it off" smiley emoticons.
Who said anything about raging? This issue is not important enough for me to rage about :)
Maybe it is, for you. You are probably raging internally about me, but trying to express it in what you, a troll, but a scared one, think is a socially acceptable form, here, even though you are using a throwaway name. That shows your stupidity.
Everyone recognises a troll when they see one.
No, the smiley at the end of that sentence indicates my sneering at you, just as my use of those specific girls' names do, like Cyril and Claude in the case of boys. You know both of those points very well, but are pretending not to, like the fake and loser that you are.
>Either I don't get the reference, or that's just... unhinged.
Yes, that's right, you are unhinged. :)))
>Maybe take a break from the internet for a bit, I'm sorry my comment upset you so much.
No, you are not sorry, because you are a troll, so that's the only thing you are capable of even trying (unsuccessfully) to do. Also, it did not upset me. I was just shitting back on you. I am very good at that.
I was wrong about your address, it's not a rock.
So go back into the pond slime under the bridge, where you belong, troll.
Edit: Can't resist a last shit on you, you slime.
Do come out of your slime, from time to time, and beg for a dime, or for a lime, to give us an entertaining time. How's that for a rhyme?
Hardeharhar. Mwahahahahaha!
Who said anything about raging? This issue is not important enough for me to rage about :)
Maybe it is, for you. You are probably raging internally about me, but trying to express it in what you, a troll, but a scared one, think is a socially acceptable form, here, even though you are using a throwaway name. That shows your stupidity.
Everyone recognises a troll when they see one.
No, the smiley at the end of that sentence indicates my sneering at you, just as my use of those specific girls' names do, like Cyril and Claude in the case of boys. You know both of those points very well, but are pretending not to, like the fake and loser that you are.
>Either I don't get the reference, or that's just... unhinged.
Yes, that's right, you are unhinged. :)))
>Maybe take a break from the internet for a bit, I'm sorry my comment upset you so much.
No, you are not sorry, because you are a troll, so that's the only thing you are capable of even trying (unsuccessfully) to do. Also, it did not upset me. I was just shitting back on you. I am very good at that.
I was wrong about your address, it's not a rock.
So go back into the pond slime under the bridge, where you belong, troll.
Edit: Can't resist a last shit on you, you slime.
Do come out of your slime, from time to time, and beg for a dime, or for a lime, to give us an entertaining time. How's that for a rhyme?
Hardeharhar. Mwahahahahaha!
[deleted]
Reddit has declined in quality significantly since the API changes. All my favorite subreddits lost their moderators, which were always the heart of the site.
Couple that with their constantly pushing their own (objectively inferior) client and killing the best ways to browse the site, I've really dropped off on how much I use reddit.
Couple that with their constantly pushing their own (objectively inferior) client and killing the best ways to browse the site, I've really dropped off on how much I use reddit.
> The Reddits were the "Cell food muffins." "Muffin" is a term of endearment Jessica uses for things like small dogs and two year olds. So that gives you some idea what kind of impression Steve and Alexis made in those days. They had the look of slightly ruffled surprise that baby birds have.
LifeProTip: If the idea you pitch is obviously nonviable, be just so adorable.
LifeProTip: If the idea you pitch is obviously nonviable, be just so adorable.
As a successful VC, this is the core of my investment thesis.
At last, techbro ageism explained.
VCs: "Ooo... Little baby founder so cute, I just want to fund you right up... Oh yes, I do! Yes, I do!"
New Techbro: "I'm the special little baby."
Same Techbro a Few Years Later: "Why are the special little babies in charge?"
Newer Techbro: "OK, boomer."
VCs: "Ooo... Little baby founder so cute, I just want to fund you right up... Oh yes, I do! Yes, I do!"
New Techbro: "I'm the special little baby."
Same Techbro a Few Years Later: "Why are the special little babies in charge?"
Newer Techbro: "OK, boomer."
Seriously! Can these people not even read what they write or are they so out of touch with reality. Jesus.
I'm banned across all of my Reddit accounts because I accidentally posted to a single subreddit that I had forgotten I had been banned months before on a different account (which was unjustified, but there's no arguing with a mod having a bad day who misinterpreted you and will not accept your apologies... I stopped trying to resolve it and just moved on. Big mistake.)
They called this "circumventing a ban", take it very seriously (as they should, I guess, but COME ON!) and it triggers a ban across every identifiable account that is connected to you, which they achieve via AI heuristics and fingerprinting. And this is VERY effective.
If you create a new account because you can't reach anyone about this (because you won't) just to get back to anyone who sent you messages or comments or whatever, they will call this "circumventing a ban AGAIN" and that will be strike 2 and when you THEN try to get help they will say "it says here that you have multiple circumvention attempts" (to an initially unjustified ban)... etc...
Do you see where this is going? Once Reddit (in the form of a mod having a bad day) has decided you are a "bad actor" (whether true or not), it's completely a slippery slope to a sitewide ban.
If anyone could help me unlock my Reddit accounts, I'd appreciate it (you can use my rep here perhaps) because it's honestly been a horrible development- example- most of my health issues had support forums there that are now read-only for me.
The really unfortunate thing is that I spent much of my time trying to help other people on it, and not being able to do that has felt bad. For some evidence of this, see my HN comments (although this is not really a support forum, per se).
I've been on Reddit since it was new (my original and oldest account dates to its earliest days: https://old.reddit.com/user/lectrick) and I'd appreciate any help!
They called this "circumventing a ban", take it very seriously (as they should, I guess, but COME ON!) and it triggers a ban across every identifiable account that is connected to you, which they achieve via AI heuristics and fingerprinting. And this is VERY effective.
If you create a new account because you can't reach anyone about this (because you won't) just to get back to anyone who sent you messages or comments or whatever, they will call this "circumventing a ban AGAIN" and that will be strike 2 and when you THEN try to get help they will say "it says here that you have multiple circumvention attempts" (to an initially unjustified ban)... etc...
Do you see where this is going? Once Reddit (in the form of a mod having a bad day) has decided you are a "bad actor" (whether true or not), it's completely a slippery slope to a sitewide ban.
If anyone could help me unlock my Reddit accounts, I'd appreciate it (you can use my rep here perhaps) because it's honestly been a horrible development- example- most of my health issues had support forums there that are now read-only for me.
The really unfortunate thing is that I spent much of my time trying to help other people on it, and not being able to do that has felt bad. For some evidence of this, see my HN comments (although this is not really a support forum, per se).
I've been on Reddit since it was new (my original and oldest account dates to its earliest days: https://old.reddit.com/user/lectrick) and I'd appreciate any help!
With all the Reddit users effectively quitting because of the 3rd party app stupidity, why didn't Reddit make ad delivery part of the terms of API usage or some other solution?
It's not like their costs go up because you access via the API vs the website/the official app.
It's not like their costs go up because you access via the API vs the website/the official app.
" In those days the top forum for programmers was a site called Slashdot."
/. still exists, and I still go a few times a week out of habit. The level of discourse varies widely, but at least I know I'm usually talking to a human and not an Asian bot farm.
/. still exists, and I still go a few times a week out of habit. The level of discourse varies widely, but at least I know I'm usually talking to a human and not an Asian bot farm.
It will be interesting to see the different takes from power users that opted in and out of the IPO at $34. I imagine that bitter power users who balked[1] at the offer will be further embittered if they lose out on a significant windfall. Stock is currently at $52 and dropping [2], and if I understand correctly, there was no post IPO lockup period. If so, I bet there was some champagne being popped at 1030 AM by those who opted in.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39772319
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RDDT
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39772319
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RDDT
I hope he has fresh ideas for moderation when reddit goes public
I can't wait for reddit to go public, it's going to generate a lot of drama
we are in the decade of internet moderation, I don't understand why the world doesn't care enough about this problem
I can't wait for reddit to go public, it's going to generate a lot of drama
we are in the decade of internet moderation, I don't understand why the world doesn't care enough about this problem
Reddit is a lemon.
"Some invitees say they’re worried about the company’s financial situation. Reddit recorded a net loss of $90.8 million last year, an improvement from 2022, when its deficit came it at $158.6 million. The company said in its prospectus that it’s racked up a cumulative loss of $716.6 million."
Reddit's CEO and COO made $193M and $93M in 2023 but their CFO "only" made $6.6M
So if you eliminate the CEO and COO, they have a profitable business. Given those two have tried to kill the community over and again, why keep them?
Reddit's CEO and COO made $193M and $93M in 2023 but their CFO "only" made $6.6M
So if you eliminate the CEO and COO, they have a profitable business. Given those two have tried to kill the community over and again, why keep them?
CEO and COO compensation is mostly stock, so you can't do math like this.
I stopped using it when I noticed it had those strange banners about language in every single subreddit. It was weird to go talk about a programming question and see that.
ChatGPT gives me most what I got on Reddit without the weirdos and constant speech policing. Which is to say, half baked information and random wastes of time digging into some historical or scientific thing.
Reddit 10 years ago was fun and weird, Reddit now is a safe space meant for a wide audience and so it’s lost most the edge and fun to me. Or maybe I got old.
ChatGPT gives me most what I got on Reddit without the weirdos and constant speech policing. Which is to say, half baked information and random wastes of time digging into some historical or scientific thing.
Reddit 10 years ago was fun and weird, Reddit now is a safe space meant for a wide audience and so it’s lost most the edge and fun to me. Or maybe I got old.
[deleted]
> There needed to be something like del.icio.us/popular, but designed for sharing links instead of being a byproduct of saving them.
I am kind of surprised that the idea was Paul Graham's. I always assumed that it was Steve and Alex who came up with it. Considering HN was also started by PG, which has survived and grown with just a few changes every year, I think he has a unique talent for creating lasting online communities. It's not an easy task, btw.
I am kind of surprised that the idea was Paul Graham's. I always assumed that it was Steve and Alex who came up with it. Considering HN was also started by PG, which has survived and grown with just a few changes every year, I think he has a unique talent for creating lasting online communities. It's not an easy task, btw.
> I think he has a unique talent for creating lasting online communities
And, most importantly, money
And, most importantly, money
Paul is wrong on Reddit, and I think his article written on 3/21/2024 shows how badly the perception of value is around Reddit with the community.
Because, he is not a user of Reddit, or, has completely missed the zeitgeist of the community
Users are outraged with Reddit
The UI is continually getting worse, and is iterating on worse
The Epstein/Maxwell relationship is insane, and previous political coverups evidences corruption at the highest levels of Reddit meant to ensure that only certain things frontpage.
The Admin Mafia is a very real thing
The pay levels of Reddit execs is nausea inducing
Reddit is likely a great example of value destruction.
Because, he is not a user of Reddit, or, has completely missed the zeitgeist of the community
Users are outraged with Reddit
The UI is continually getting worse, and is iterating on worse
The Epstein/Maxwell relationship is insane, and previous political coverups evidences corruption at the highest levels of Reddit meant to ensure that only certain things frontpage.
The Admin Mafia is a very real thing
The pay levels of Reddit execs is nausea inducing
Reddit is likely a great example of value destruction.
And yet the site is growing by millions of users every year. They must be doing something right. Isn't HN discounting a company that is going to become very profitable (like Facebook) because of some internet drama?
I started using VPN full-time and Reddit bans any datacentre ip address, does wonders to fight muscle memory built over decades to avoid this god forsaken site.
[deleted]
there's an ongoing flagging tug of war on this post.
You're right. Many old comments that may have attempted to shed light on the skeletons in someone's closet related to prosecution of Aaron Swartz are gone.
This is something I noticed in the past few months here. Gang-flagging clearly intensified on HN but it doesn't look like any of HN moderators care.
As someone who has been aggressively cataloging "data" (posts, comments, subreddits, etc.) from Reddit and, importantly in this context, keeping those records relatively up-to-date, it's absolutely astonishing how much spam there is.
I hash every string with a SimHash and perform a Hamming distance query against those hashes for any hash that belongs to more than 3 accounts, i.e., any full string (> 42 characters) which was posted as a post title, post body, comment body, or account "description" by more than 3 accounts.
Regularly, this exposes huge networks of both fresh accounts and what I have to assume are stolen, credentialed "aged" accounts being used to spam that just recycle the same or very similar (Hamming distance < 5 on strings > 42 characters) titles/bodies. We're talking thousands of accounts over months just posting the same content over and over to the same range of subreddits.
I'm just some random Laravel enjoyer, and I've automated the 'banning' of these accounts (really, I flag the strings, and any account that posts them is then flagged).
This doesn't even touch on the media... (I've basically done the same thing with hashing the media to detect duplicate or very, very similar content via pHash). Thousands and thousands of accounts are spamming the same images over and over and over.
From my numbers, 59% of the content on Reddit is spam, and 51% of the accounts are spam, and that's not including the media-flagged spammers.
They don't seem to care about the spam, or they're completely inept. With the resources at their disposal, there's such a huge portion of this that should be able to be moderated before it ever reaches the API/live.
I hash every string with a SimHash and perform a Hamming distance query against those hashes for any hash that belongs to more than 3 accounts, i.e., any full string (> 42 characters) which was posted as a post title, post body, comment body, or account "description" by more than 3 accounts.
Regularly, this exposes huge networks of both fresh accounts and what I have to assume are stolen, credentialed "aged" accounts being used to spam that just recycle the same or very similar (Hamming distance < 5 on strings > 42 characters) titles/bodies. We're talking thousands of accounts over months just posting the same content over and over to the same range of subreddits.
I'm just some random Laravel enjoyer, and I've automated the 'banning' of these accounts (really, I flag the strings, and any account that posts them is then flagged).
This doesn't even touch on the media... (I've basically done the same thing with hashing the media to detect duplicate or very, very similar content via pHash). Thousands and thousands of accounts are spamming the same images over and over and over.
From my numbers, 59% of the content on Reddit is spam, and 51% of the accounts are spam, and that's not including the media-flagged spammers.
They don't seem to care about the spam, or they're completely inept. With the resources at their disposal, there's such a huge portion of this that should be able to be moderated before it ever reaches the API/live.
> They don't seem to care about the spam, or they're completely inept
They don't care, at least that is the conclusion I've reached after repeatedly reporting content farms. I think they drive engagement anyway so it's good for business at the end of day. I did not do a thorough study like you apparently did, but anecdotally from the popular subreddits, I've spent enough time on Reddit (unfortunately) to recognize rehashed content that's reposted periodically to 'mine' karma. At some point, Reddit will be just a bunch of spam bots talking to each other and upvoting each other's content while humans will be spectators, or their content will be buried. Either way, this will be great for Reddit as it's good for business (ad impressions). It will be bad for Google as they're training their AIs based off spam and they will notice..
They don't care, at least that is the conclusion I've reached after repeatedly reporting content farms. I think they drive engagement anyway so it's good for business at the end of day. I did not do a thorough study like you apparently did, but anecdotally from the popular subreddits, I've spent enough time on Reddit (unfortunately) to recognize rehashed content that's reposted periodically to 'mine' karma. At some point, Reddit will be just a bunch of spam bots talking to each other and upvoting each other's content while humans will be spectators, or their content will be buried. Either way, this will be great for Reddit as it's good for business (ad impressions). It will be bad for Google as they're training their AIs based off spam and they will notice..
> Either way, this will be great for Reddit as it's good for business (ad impressions).
They probably have a slush fund to pay the spammers to boost traffic numbers
They probably have a slush fund to pay the spammers to boost traffic numbers
I’m not much of a Redditor. Why do spammers want to “mine” karma? What makes it valuable?
Couldn’t Reddit solve this simply by making karma worthless, like HN?
Couldn’t Reddit solve this simply by making karma worthless, like HN?
See https://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaBotKillers/wiki/index/
> Couldn’t Reddit solve this simply by making karma worthless, like HN?
Why would they solve this? These bots create engagement. Until some bot farm is weaponized to organize some sort of IRL 'bad thing', I bet nobody at Reddit actually gives a fuck.
> Couldn’t Reddit solve this simply by making karma worthless, like HN?
Why would they solve this? These bots create engagement. Until some bot farm is weaponized to organize some sort of IRL 'bad thing', I bet nobody at Reddit actually gives a fuck.
Thanks, but after reading that I still don’t get it. What makes an account with 10,000 karma worth money as opposed to one with 100 karma? Do high karma accounts get more prominent display, bolder text, or something else that’s actually worth money?
> What makes an account with 10,000 karma worth money as opposed to one with 100 karma
Astroturfing. Say you're on the /r/AppleWatch and you see a post asking for some watch band recommendations. People start posting said recommendations and you check to see who's posting what. You will instinctively trust the 3 yo account with 10k karma, very popular on /r/pics vs the 2 month old account with 100 karma. That's one example for why some of these accounts are actually bought and sold https://www.epicnpc.com/forums/reddit-accounts.1277/
Political activism is another scenario for these sockpuppet accounts with heavy karma. I've noticed A LOT of pro-Palestinian and pro-Russian propaganda from accounts with huge amounts of karma quickly gained from a handful of posts on mainstream reddits like /r/pics or /r/funny which are reposted content from 3-4 years ago.
Astroturfing. Say you're on the /r/AppleWatch and you see a post asking for some watch band recommendations. People start posting said recommendations and you check to see who's posting what. You will instinctively trust the 3 yo account with 10k karma, very popular on /r/pics vs the 2 month old account with 100 karma. That's one example for why some of these accounts are actually bought and sold https://www.epicnpc.com/forums/reddit-accounts.1277/
Political activism is another scenario for these sockpuppet accounts with heavy karma. I've noticed A LOT of pro-Palestinian and pro-Russian propaganda from accounts with huge amounts of karma quickly gained from a handful of posts on mainstream reddits like /r/pics or /r/funny which are reposted content from 3-4 years ago.
Higher karma accounts are less likely to get soft-locked out of communities ("comment/post deleted: you must have x karma to post here") and probably "look more authentic". That perception is probably still subliminally there for a bit longer.
Got it. So ironically, the subreddits are kind of causing the problem themselves by insisting on karma thresholds.
They really don't have much choice. It's likely one of the most effective ways to minimize spam from 5 min old accounts.
There are commercial influencing operations on Reddit, but I think what you're describing doesn't really affect the usual user experience.
I suspect that the objective of these bulk spamming operations isn't to promote stuff on the platform, but to mess with other apps. LLMs trained on Reddit content, search engines that rank Reddit posts highly, etc.
I suspect that the objective of these bulk spamming operations isn't to promote stuff on the platform, but to mess with other apps. LLMs trained on Reddit content, search engines that rank Reddit posts highly, etc.
Some time shortly before the API changes I did see _a lot_ of the spam content was clearly aimed towards prompting for comments to answer all kinds of rather generic questions about various life experiences. I can only imagine what it was used to train.
Now... so much onlyfans. The onlyfans spam dwarfs the rest (I should mention that there's quite a few political/news subreddits I just flat out ignore due to the amount of spam and astroturfing - so likely there's quite a bit there that I'm not seeing)
Now... so much onlyfans. The onlyfans spam dwarfs the rest (I should mention that there's quite a few political/news subreddits I just flat out ignore due to the amount of spam and astroturfing - so likely there's quite a bit there that I'm not seeing)
Is this catalog project open source by chance?
It's not but there's a handful of catalogs out there that are _massive_ databases of reddit content.
How long have you been doing this?
And have you accounted for reddit-isms, such as posting huge chains of "Cat" or "nice"?
And have you accounted for reddit-isms, such as posting huge chains of "Cat" or "nice"?
> How long have you been doing this?
A few years.
> And have you accounted for reddit-isms, such as posting huge chains of "Cat" or "nice"?
Like others have said, the 42 character limit is a bit of a sweet spot that I've found where basically everything is spam.
I do take a look at strings under 42 characters but have to take a bit of a manual approach there as natural repeated strings start breaking through.
A few years.
> And have you accounted for reddit-isms, such as posting huge chains of "Cat" or "nice"?
Like others have said, the 42 character limit is a bit of a sweet spot that I've found where basically everything is spam.
I do take a look at strings under 42 characters but have to take a bit of a manual approach there as natural repeated strings start breaking through.
I think the comment memes usually fall short of the 42 cutoff. Some copypasta probably needs more sophisticated filtering.
> Some copypasta probably needs more sophisticated filtering.
I did eventually have to build a process to function as an 'allowlist' for legitimate strings that would otherwise have all the characteristics of spam.
I did eventually have to build a process to function as an 'allowlist' for legitimate strings that would otherwise have all the characteristics of spam.
A 42 character min will filter those out, no?
Are these posts and comments being upvoted or just being sentinto a void that no one is seeing?
Both. Some of this stuff is _so obviously_ spam and yet there's hundreds of comments from all kinds of... not smart people. Just feasting on the bait.
Then there's lots that are just spammed into the abyss, accounts banned or suspended shortly after.
Then there's lots that are just spammed into the abyss, accounts banned or suspended shortly after.
Do you work for Reddit?
I rarely read Reddit, but when I do I rarely see outright spam (I see plenty of noise).
I rarely read Reddit, but when I do I rarely see outright spam (I see plenty of noise).
Really, it's very subreddit dependent. I process a 'spam score' for each subreddit daily and there exists quite a bit of variance. Most of the larger subreddits are pretty well moderated.
This is so interesting. How do you manage to catalog all the subreddits in existence? Is there a page which lists them all? I assume the process from there is retrieving by most recent
> How do you manage to catalog all the subreddits in existence?
Oh, I don't want to give the wrong impression. I'm not cataloging anywhere near _all_ subreddits. Or all of anything. More or less I started one day with one subreddit and built a system that just churns through what's there. The API is limited and there's only so many creative ways to request the data (while staying within TOS) - as I've wanted to remain able to function I've made sure to stay within the boundaries set forth.
Rather than try to get _everything_ (there's services out there that have databases of a lot of past/current reddit data) that ends up stale data (which may be useful for a content farm) I'm interested instead in a relatively accurate picture.
This project initially grew out of an interest in building an automated moderation bot to help out subreddits being spammed with content from accounts that are so obviously spam when the content was posted that it's astounding it ever makes it live. A few months into developing the initial crawling/database/hashing setup and getting things all tuned up they announced the API changes and I lost all interest in the moderation aspects but had enjoyed using it as a test bed for learning new things. (I came into this having no idea what a hamming distance was)
Oh, I don't want to give the wrong impression. I'm not cataloging anywhere near _all_ subreddits. Or all of anything. More or less I started one day with one subreddit and built a system that just churns through what's there. The API is limited and there's only so many creative ways to request the data (while staying within TOS) - as I've wanted to remain able to function I've made sure to stay within the boundaries set forth.
Rather than try to get _everything_ (there's services out there that have databases of a lot of past/current reddit data) that ends up stale data (which may be useful for a content farm) I'm interested instead in a relatively accurate picture.
This project initially grew out of an interest in building an automated moderation bot to help out subreddits being spammed with content from accounts that are so obviously spam when the content was posted that it's astounding it ever makes it live. A few months into developing the initial crawling/database/hashing setup and getting things all tuned up they announced the API changes and I lost all interest in the moderation aspects but had enjoyed using it as a test bed for learning new things. (I came into this having no idea what a hamming distance was)
https://www.reddit.com/subreddits/
Not sure if this list all, but should be a good start.
Not sure if this list all, but should be a good start.
Despite any PR answer they probably provided to cover themselves, this is precisely the reason they altered the readability of data like e.g. the number of downvotes of a post.
They want to hide certain correlations around controversial posts from long held accounts who otherwise have a good post and comment karma. If one had access to timestamps too then one could essentially see some of the astroturfing and intentionally directed bot spam clearly. Too much data would allow one to see such corruption in very clear ways. And even analyze the rhetorical anti-communication hostility tactics.
Simultaneously this gives them an excuse to ban all accounts productive in communication (via some slight breaking of some rule) with the explanation that they are too swamped to make discerning decisions.
They want to hide certain correlations around controversial posts from long held accounts who otherwise have a good post and comment karma. If one had access to timestamps too then one could essentially see some of the astroturfing and intentionally directed bot spam clearly. Too much data would allow one to see such corruption in very clear ways. And even analyze the rhetorical anti-communication hostility tactics.
Simultaneously this gives them an excuse to ban all accounts productive in communication (via some slight breaking of some rule) with the explanation that they are too swamped to make discerning decisions.
could you spill which subreddits have the most garbage in?
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Argh - the font is nigh-unreadable on a FullHD monitor. Why on earth does the modern web UI insist on the SUPER-THIN variants of fonts?
This is Paul Graham we're talking about. The man who on 12/23/2023, for the first time ever, installed a valid SSL certificate on his website.
Once you adjust browser settings enough to read the content he publishes, you'll notice that he praises the recent developments at Reddit, so let's just say he's not a guy that follows best practices or understands good UX.
Once you adjust browser settings enough to read the content he publishes, you'll notice that he praises the recent developments at Reddit, so let's just say he's not a guy that follows best practices or understands good UX.
Translated: "Buy this garbage stock so I can finally make some money from this damn company" – Paul Graham
Does he actually have a financial stake though? It was sold to Conde Nast…I just assumed all the equity transferred over to them.
It's complicated. Reddit was founded and funded by YC in 2005, then acquired by Conde Nast in 2006, then spun off again in 2012. Since then it has attracted ~8 more rounds of funding. Advance Publications (parent of Conde Nast) currently only owns 30% of the company, Tencent 11%, Fidelity 9.5%.
Notably, Sam Altman also invested in Reddit in 2014 when he was president of YC, and now his "investment properties " own 8.7%. What the composition of that investment vehicle is, and how YC/Paul Graham are involved, I can't say.
Notably, Sam Altman also invested in Reddit in 2014 when he was president of YC, and now his "investment properties " own 8.7%. What the composition of that investment vehicle is, and how YC/Paul Graham are involved, I can't say.
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>If Reddit could grow to the size it had with management that was harmless at best, what could it do if Steve came back?
Harmless at best wasn't enough, so let's bring in actively harmful!
I'm being hyperbolic but Reddit doesn't really seem to have grown in any meaningful way for a long time; frankly, it has regressed in many ways since Steve has regained the reins.
Steve is operating with more info than I am, so maybe all his decisions are sound from a business perspective, but as a user I've only seen Reddit become less useful, less novel, less active, and less enjoyable. As a result I use it less, and I know others use it less as well. There is no real moat to Reddit outside of it's user base, if they continue to push too hard I don't see how they survive.
Harmless at best wasn't enough, so let's bring in actively harmful!
I'm being hyperbolic but Reddit doesn't really seem to have grown in any meaningful way for a long time; frankly, it has regressed in many ways since Steve has regained the reins.
Steve is operating with more info than I am, so maybe all his decisions are sound from a business perspective, but as a user I've only seen Reddit become less useful, less novel, less active, and less enjoyable. As a result I use it less, and I know others use it less as well. There is no real moat to Reddit outside of it's user base, if they continue to push too hard I don't see how they survive.
Complaints about the stupidity and herd mindedness of the Reddit user base can generally be boiled down to complaints about large groups of average people gathered together. Look upon the average person, ye mighty, and despair.
Evil pays well in the short term. Reddit has been squeezing users and making their app unusable for quite some time. Lack of competent alternative and the difficulty of "porting" the data already there is all that's keeping it up. Still, they'll probably just try to buy any competition.
Note: they don't even let you escape the reddit app browser for external links anymore - no copying url (or any page content/links), no "open in external browser". Absolute pure evil UX.
Note: they don't even let you escape the reddit app browser for external links anymore - no copying url (or any page content/links), no "open in external browser". Absolute pure evil UX.
Speaking of reddit, this is one of the most interesting comments on the site, by cofounder and ex-CEO Yishan:
> What's the best "long con" you ever pulled?
>> Here's one.
>> In 2006, reddit was sold to Conde Nast. It was soon obvious to many that the sale had been premature, the site was unmanaged and under-resourced under the old-media giant who simply didn't understand it and could never realize its full potential, so the founders and their allies in Y-Combinator (where reddit had been born) hatched an audacious plan to re-extract reddit from the clutches of the 100-year-old media conglomerate.
>> Together with Sam Altman, they recruited a young up-and-coming technology manager with social media credentials. Alexis, who was on the interview panel for the new reddit CEO, would reject all other candidates except this one. The manager was to insist as a condition of taking the job that Conde Nast would have to give up significant ownership of the company, first to employees by justifying the need for equity to be able to hire top talent, bringing in Silicon Valley insiders to help run the company. After continuing to grow the company, he would then further dilute Conde Nast's ownership by raising money from a syndicate of Silicon Valley investors led by Sam Altman, now the President of Y-Combinator itself, who in the process would take a seat on the board.
>> Once this was done, he and his team would manufacture a series of otherwise-improbable leadership crises, forcing the new board to scramble to find a new CEO, allowing Altman to use his position on the board to advocate for the re-introduction of the old founders, installing them on the board and as CEO, thus returning the company to their control and relegating Conde Nast to a position as minority shareholder.
>> JUST KIDDING. There's no way that could happen.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3cs78i/whats_the...
The best part is all the responses by Steve Huffman, Sam Altman, and Ellen Pao, all related to the Reddit leadership at one time or another.
> What's the best "long con" you ever pulled?
>> Here's one.
>> In 2006, reddit was sold to Conde Nast. It was soon obvious to many that the sale had been premature, the site was unmanaged and under-resourced under the old-media giant who simply didn't understand it and could never realize its full potential, so the founders and their allies in Y-Combinator (where reddit had been born) hatched an audacious plan to re-extract reddit from the clutches of the 100-year-old media conglomerate.
>> Together with Sam Altman, they recruited a young up-and-coming technology manager with social media credentials. Alexis, who was on the interview panel for the new reddit CEO, would reject all other candidates except this one. The manager was to insist as a condition of taking the job that Conde Nast would have to give up significant ownership of the company, first to employees by justifying the need for equity to be able to hire top talent, bringing in Silicon Valley insiders to help run the company. After continuing to grow the company, he would then further dilute Conde Nast's ownership by raising money from a syndicate of Silicon Valley investors led by Sam Altman, now the President of Y-Combinator itself, who in the process would take a seat on the board.
>> Once this was done, he and his team would manufacture a series of otherwise-improbable leadership crises, forcing the new board to scramble to find a new CEO, allowing Altman to use his position on the board to advocate for the re-introduction of the old founders, installing them on the board and as CEO, thus returning the company to their control and relegating Conde Nast to a position as minority shareholder.
>> JUST KIDDING. There's no way that could happen.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3cs78i/whats_the...
The best part is all the responses by Steve Huffman, Sam Altman, and Ellen Pao, all related to the Reddit leadership at one time or another.
Reddit (the idea) is alive and spreading (federated) in Lemmy :)
This article is an ad for the IPO, posted by an investor.
If you enjoy visual representations, try https://scrolldit.com/
Obligatory link to an article covering how Reddit got started - Tons of fake accounts
https://www.vice.com/en/article/z4444w/how-reddit-got-huge-t...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/z4444w/how-reddit-got-huge-t...
nuked my 8 year old account and all posts and comments I had there after their API bull. Lemmy isn't as enjoyable as the communities are far smaller and less engaged, but overall I've spent a lot less time scrolling for no reason so overall it's a win.
same thing with Twitter and Mastodon, except I feel Mastodon was far more successful a transition for me.
same thing with Twitter and Mastodon, except I feel Mastodon was far more successful a transition for me.
rest in peace Aaron Swartz
Reddit has completely destroyed their mobile website to drive users to their (bad) app. They also destroyed most of their app competitors with the whole API fiasco.
Wait so Reddit wasn't even their idea? Paul just handed them an idea and a bunch of money to go with it?
This is a bittersweet period for me. I'm a long time redditor, large subreddit creator, and even very large subreddit former mod. I've even met both Alexis and Steve because of reddit.
At the same time, it's glaringly obvious that while the site was build for analytical, idealist, content contributor folks like me (i.e., the type of people who have contributed to wikipedia at least a few times), the site is being converted to focus on content consumption in order to reach a broader audience.
I don't want to be mad. I still use old.reddit and tend to stick to the smaller subs I know and love (e.g. /r/RainbowEverything, /r/flashlight, /r/knolling, /r/ShittyDaystrom), but whenever I click on /r/all, I die a little bit inside, because it feels like I'm staring a reflection of the worst instincts of humanity (both the awful and the cliché), rather than the best of humanity I saw on the first days of /r/all when it was a way to add more blogs to my google reader feed.
We all built a cool website together, and it was fun. I'll keep using it, but I probably wont ever actively moderate again, simply because it's obvious that they have a different vision. I've always found reddit to be the best of all the social media networks, simply because it actually requires people to engage instead of using it as a megaphone. I may even invest in it somewhere down the road if the financials make more sense.
At the same time, it's glaringly obvious that while the site was build for analytical, idealist, content contributor folks like me (i.e., the type of people who have contributed to wikipedia at least a few times), the site is being converted to focus on content consumption in order to reach a broader audience.
I don't want to be mad. I still use old.reddit and tend to stick to the smaller subs I know and love (e.g. /r/RainbowEverything, /r/flashlight, /r/knolling, /r/ShittyDaystrom), but whenever I click on /r/all, I die a little bit inside, because it feels like I'm staring a reflection of the worst instincts of humanity (both the awful and the cliché), rather than the best of humanity I saw on the first days of /r/all when it was a way to add more blogs to my google reader feed.
We all built a cool website together, and it was fun. I'll keep using it, but I probably wont ever actively moderate again, simply because it's obvious that they have a different vision. I've always found reddit to be the best of all the social media networks, simply because it actually requires people to engage instead of using it as a megaphone. I may even invest in it somewhere down the road if the financials make more sense.
The best take here. It pays to scroll on HN.
> whenever I click on /r/all, I die a little bit inside, because it feels like I'm staring a reflection of the worst instincts of humanity (both the awful and the cliché),
It really is awful. Maybe worst of all are the “snark” subreddits for celebrity gossip and catty bullying.
But as you also point out, that is, like it or not, broad, and broad is where the money is.
> whenever I click on /r/all, I die a little bit inside, because it feels like I'm staring a reflection of the worst instincts of humanity (both the awful and the cliché),
It really is awful. Maybe worst of all are the “snark” subreddits for celebrity gossip and catty bullying.
But as you also point out, that is, like it or not, broad, and broad is where the money is.
> Maybe worst of all are the “snark” subreddits for celebrity gossip and catty bullying.
My hobby is better than your hobby.
My hobby is better than your hobby.
For some reason I am as bothered by the "feel good" posts as the nasty ones. I really can't put my finger on why, but that type of content really just rubs me the wrong way too.
For example, the top post on /r/all right now is:
>TIL that singer Dionne Warwick, upset with misogyny in rap lyrics, once set up a meeting with Snoop Dogg and Suge Knight at her home, where she demanded that they call her a “bitch” to her face. Snoop Dogg later said “I believe we got out-gangstered that day.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1bk944c/til_...
I mean... what? It obviously didn't influence him substantially, as he still used "bitch" in his songs. I just don't get the point of something like this. It doesn't make me feel good, it just makes me confused at why this is a popular post.
For example, the top post on /r/all right now is:
>TIL that singer Dionne Warwick, upset with misogyny in rap lyrics, once set up a meeting with Snoop Dogg and Suge Knight at her home, where she demanded that they call her a “bitch” to her face. Snoop Dogg later said “I believe we got out-gangstered that day.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1bk944c/til_...
I mean... what? It obviously didn't influence him substantially, as he still used "bitch" in his songs. I just don't get the point of something like this. It doesn't make me feel good, it just makes me confused at why this is a popular post.
TIL is an engagement farming subreddit. It's a popular post because it's engagement farming. It's a form of infotainment for consumers.
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Is there an equivalent of Reddit run by a non-profit?
the fediverse alternative is lemmy. the most popular and easiest way to get started is the instance at https://lemmy.world/ which is donation funded and doesn't appear to be doing any for-profit activities, but i don't think an actual registered non-profit.
when old.reddit.com dies, i'll be done :peace:
From what I can tell, Reddit took a huge legacy forum product and pivoted into a modern social media app, using all the algorithmically addictive tricks in the modern social media app playbook.
Their numbers look really good with consistent growth in MAU and revenue year over year: https://www.businessofapps.com/data/reddit-statistics/
And IIRC they are larger than such properties as Pinterest and Linkedin. I use the app daily, and it is full of activity on a huge number of subreddits.
It seems like the only people who don't like Reddit are middle aged men on programming forums who nevertheless use old.reddit.com every day. They've basically created the TikTok of text content.
Their numbers look really good with consistent growth in MAU and revenue year over year: https://www.businessofapps.com/data/reddit-statistics/
And IIRC they are larger than such properties as Pinterest and Linkedin. I use the app daily, and it is full of activity on a huge number of subreddits.
It seems like the only people who don't like Reddit are middle aged men on programming forums who nevertheless use old.reddit.com every day. They've basically created the TikTok of text content.
I’m waiting for the discord IPO personally.
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Anyone shorting the stock?
IPOs traditionally trade below their IPO list price after a pop for about a year. However, if reddit can generate continued media buzz then it might do well?
the venn diagram of retail meme stock traders and redditors is almost a circle. I don't think anyone has the chaos-theory-modeling tea-leaf-reading ability to understand the timing around shorting this stock right after IPO.
poor alex. did he sell all his shares for like 20M years back?
IPO HN: Reddit (YC S05)
Reminder that in 2014, Reddit planned on giving away 10% of its stock to dedicated power users and moderators[1], before Ellen Pao (briefly) and then Steve rejoined as CEO.
1. https://techcrunch.com/2014/09/30/reddit-fundraising/
1. https://techcrunch.com/2014/09/30/reddit-fundraising/
Social media as a concept is in big trouble: Facebook, Tiktok, and others are constantly explaining themselves in Washington. Twitter has transformed into Elon Musk's media toy. Reddit is full of echo chambers that produce very little original content.
see also:
Reddit Data API Update: Changes to Pushshift Access - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35776848 16 comments
Reddit's proposed API changes and the continued existence of RedReader - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35767700 109 comments
Reddit comments and submissions collected by Pushshift - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36038684 294 comments
Since they disabled the ability to search effectively using pushshift, I haven't been back to Reddit myself.
Reddit Data API Update: Changes to Pushshift Access - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35776848 16 comments
Reddit's proposed API changes and the continued existence of RedReader - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35767700 109 comments
Reddit comments and submissions collected by Pushshift - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36038684 294 comments
Since they disabled the ability to search effectively using pushshift, I haven't been back to Reddit myself.
Puff piece you would expect from key stakeholders in this whole fiasco (conveniently timed, might I add). Respect where respect is due, but nothing in this post is worth a grain of salt in my opinion.
What fiasco? I think I'm missing some context here
They weren't making advertising money from 3rd party API clients like RIF is Fun or Apollo. They decided to increase the price of API calls to an impractically high amount. This was uncovered by the Apollo dev, who recorded their meetings with the Reddit leadership, which also uncovered that Reddit leadership was lying about the interaction (accusing the Apollo dev of extortion I believe). Reddit wanted $12,000 for something other sites charged approximately $200.
(see the reply to this comment by neilv for information that casts doubt on the "reddit leadership lying" part of this)
Instead of charging 3rd party clients $5/month or something and retaining them, Reddit banned all 3rd party clients. But then went back on that after realizing that people with disabilities used 3rd party clients to access the site because Reddit's own app was not usable for them. Other 3rd party apps were still banned though.
People protested, eventually taking thousands of subreddits offline, which Reddit then fixed by replacing the moderators/owners of each subreddit.
There's probably more I'm missing, but basically Reddit tried to rent-seek but their engineering teams weren't able to provide the infrastructure needed to support API subscriptions for 3rd party apps.
Edited to add: The initial Apollo developer thread is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_ca...
And the post that details Reddit leadership lying about the Apollo dev: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_t...
(see the reply to this comment by neilv for information that casts doubt on the "reddit leadership lying" part of this)
Instead of charging 3rd party clients $5/month or something and retaining them, Reddit banned all 3rd party clients. But then went back on that after realizing that people with disabilities used 3rd party clients to access the site because Reddit's own app was not usable for them. Other 3rd party apps were still banned though.
People protested, eventually taking thousands of subreddits offline, which Reddit then fixed by replacing the moderators/owners of each subreddit.
There's probably more I'm missing, but basically Reddit tried to rent-seek but their engineering teams weren't able to provide the infrastructure needed to support API subscriptions for 3rd party apps.
Edited to add: The initial Apollo developer thread is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_ca...
And the post that details Reddit leadership lying about the Apollo dev: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_t...
> which also uncovered that Reddit leadership was lying about the interaction (accusing the Apollo dev of extortion I believe).
I wasted a lot of time going through transcripts and recordings at the time, and (to my ear, and knowledge of the world) the facts available didn't fully support the confident accusations that the angry villagers with pitchforks were repeating from each other.
Which injustice is kinda poetic, if you consider how Reddit as a venue nurtured thinking like "we did it, reddit!" and other collective stupidity.
I wasted a lot of time going through transcripts and recordings at the time, and (to my ear, and knowledge of the world) the facts available didn't fully support the confident accusations that the angry villagers with pitchforks were repeating from each other.
Which injustice is kinda poetic, if you consider how Reddit as a venue nurtured thinking like "we did it, reddit!" and other collective stupidity.
I've updated my comment with a note about yours. I'll admit I haven't gone through the recordings or transcripts, thank you for doing that.
> People protested, eventually taking thousands of subreddits offline, which Reddit then fixed by replacing the moderators/owners of each subreddit.
Reddit couldn't have handled this better IMO. Mods literally held subs hostage, which, when you think of it, is just so stupid it made for some good natural selection.
Reddit couldn't have handled this better IMO. Mods literally held subs hostage, which, when you think of it, is just so stupid it made for some good natural selection.
From my understanding, reddit is losing 100m+ a year and their CEO gets paid more than Nvda ceo, or apple ceo.
That headline has been linked everywhere so of course it's untrue. a) He received an large bonus and b) his increased salary is still half of NVIDIA's CEO.
"Huffman in 2023 got a salary of $341,346, which is relatively low for a CEO of a major public corporation. In February, this was raised to $550,000. He also got a $792,000 bonus last year based on Reddit's user numbers, revenue, and a type of profitability known as adjusted EBITDA that excludes certain expenses."
https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-def...
"Huffman in 2023 got a salary of $341,346, which is relatively low for a CEO of a major public corporation. In February, this was raised to $550,000. He also got a $792,000 bonus last year based on Reddit's user numbers, revenue, and a type of profitability known as adjusted EBITDA that excludes certain expenses."
https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-def...
I think the often-quoted amount that huffmann is going to be paid includes stock he owns (will own?), with its valuation based on the targeted IPO price. I don't think he's getting paid an absurd amount of cash right now.
It's in his interest to have a small cash compensation though since long-term capital gains tax is smaller than income tax. Also, he can always take a loan against his stock to get liquidity without triggering income tax.
Looking at their SEC filing [1], the CEO compensation breaks down into ~$1mil of cash and ~$192mil roughly split between stock and options. Both the stock and options appear to have further conditions attached to them that reduce that number further.
I'm not even a fake accountant, so I don't understand the exact nature of the dilution, but the $193mil overall number seems to assume a lot of stuff goes extremely well in the IPO. I think the stock number assumes a stock price of ~$33.
[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1713445/000162828024...
I'm not even a fake accountant, so I don't understand the exact nature of the dilution, but the $193mil overall number seems to assume a lot of stuff goes extremely well in the IPO. I think the stock number assumes a stock price of ~$33.
[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1713445/000162828024...
Reddit is about to IPO. YC are principle investors.
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People are already raging that Reddit can't pay moderators, but that Spez takes more compensation than Tim Cook while his company reports losses. Reddit said it themselves, one similar website could take them out and that's exactly what I see happening once the landscape changes from community to profit which to your point is already happening given recent events.
> one similar website could take them out
I’m guessing disaggregation will hollow them out by taking away many of the high-engagement subreddits, and only then will one website be able to come in to start the reintegration cycle.
I’m guessing something similar to Discord, but discoverable via search, will be the Reddit killer.
De-centralized, self-moderated, payment options available, the company optimizes the tool rather than the content, etc.
A system like that removes most of the headaches that the current Reddit ecosystem causes.
I’m guessing disaggregation will hollow them out by taking away many of the high-engagement subreddits, and only then will one website be able to come in to start the reintegration cycle.
I’m guessing something similar to Discord, but discoverable via search, will be the Reddit killer.
De-centralized, self-moderated, payment options available, the company optimizes the tool rather than the content, etc.
A system like that removes most of the headaches that the current Reddit ecosystem causes.
People moderate on Reddit because they enjoy doing so. The mods may complain about not getting paid, but they'll continue moderating anyways. If they don't, then other people will actively volunteer to take their place.
Mods are raging that they are getting paid. Users don't care because mods are power tripping assholes who make spez look classy by comparison.
It's not true that mods don't get paid, exactly. They don't get paid by Reddit, but being a Reddit mod gives you plenty of opportunity to get paid. You're allowed to run ads all over the sub. I know people making over $100K/yr from moderating a sub.
You couldn't pay me to mod a big sub (again, I did it for a couple years). The mod queue of a large sub is soul-crushing (at least where large is >10M, idk about smaller ones). Humans can be real *******s. And the admins don't appear to care about it at all.
Two executives combined my over $300 million or better than a third of the total operating revenue and they "can't" pay moderators.
>Spez takes more compensation than Tim Cook
I didn't know this is true. That's mind blowing.
I didn't know this is true. That's mind blowing.
I really dont understand the hate. Reddit to me is a mini Facebook, with some added anonimity
* Mods dont get paid - Facebook Groups has niche groups much bigger than niche subreddits. I subscribe to both FB and Reddit for the car models I own, the FB groups are 10x bigger with 20x posts. Those mods dont get paid either, and Facebook as a much bigger spam/fake account problem to work tirelessly to defend your group against
* No API / 3rd Party access - well, just try asking Meta for a free API to build an adless wrapper around the Facebook wall, good luck
But spez is the bad guy here and zuck is a saint. Or they're both bad guys but if you think that, then spez is on the right trajectory to easily have a $20b company in 5 years
People seem to be confusing - high potential for profits with building an adless platform that also has succesfully passed the network effect
* Mods dont get paid - Facebook Groups has niche groups much bigger than niche subreddits. I subscribe to both FB and Reddit for the car models I own, the FB groups are 10x bigger with 20x posts. Those mods dont get paid either, and Facebook as a much bigger spam/fake account problem to work tirelessly to defend your group against
* No API / 3rd Party access - well, just try asking Meta for a free API to build an adless wrapper around the Facebook wall, good luck
But spez is the bad guy here and zuck is a saint. Or they're both bad guys but if you think that, then spez is on the right trajectory to easily have a $20b company in 5 years
People seem to be confusing - high potential for profits with building an adless platform that also has succesfully passed the network effect
[deleted]
What you're missing is that up until relatively recently, folks were still holding out hope that Reddit could remain a place that was enjoyable to interact with regularly. It's only the last 5 years that it has completely degraded into an obnoxious hellscape that you occasionally have to pinch your nose and deal with to extract some information that is unfortunately buried there. Facebook, on the other hand, degraded into a hellscape a long, long time ago. The facebook wounds have healed, whereas the reddit wounds are fresh. Plus, people liked using Reddit a lot more than they ever liked Facebook at their respective peaks. You're seeing people coping with a deeper and more recent loss.
I'm surprised you have been on this site for ten years and have the impression that zuck is considered a saint.
Market manipulation in broad daylight. lol.
No downvotes here, direct attack at the Ycomb-King-Slum-Lord himself
I don't go on Reddit anymore because there is too much drama there lol
Now I miss del.icio.us.
> They told me about the startup idea we'd later fund them to drop: a way to order fast food on your cellphone.
> This was before smartphones. They'd have had to make deals with cell carriers and fast food chains just to get it launched. So it was not going to happen. It still doesn't exist, 19 years later.
What does he mean here, since Uber Eats, Door Dash, Postmates, Grub Hub, and a bunch of similar startups all do some version of that.
> This was before smartphones. They'd have had to make deals with cell carriers and fast food chains just to get it launched. So it was not going to happen. It still doesn't exist, 19 years later.
What does he mean here, since Uber Eats, Door Dash, Postmates, Grub Hub, and a bunch of similar startups all do some version of that.
Reddit has become steadily less useful to me; the UI is awful. The endless pressure to use their app is irritating.
So I dunno that I buy this adulation of Steve.
So I dunno that I buy this adulation of Steve.
Steve = spez, right? Not seeing a lot of adulation of him these days.
his best idea was to "make the use-the-app popups in the browser so annoying that people will finally give up and move to the app they hate"... so all of reddit was full of hate-memes for spez recently.
A glance at his profile shows he hasn't posted anything since the intense backlash against the API changes: https://old.reddit.com/user/spez/
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence!
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence!
Does he still edit comments in the database if the don't align with his political preferences?
Reddit mobile web homepage started freezing for me a couple months ago. It happens about 1/3rd of page loads.
That was the final straw. I haven't been to the site for weeks for the first time in 12 years.
That was the final straw. I haven't been to the site for weeks for the first time in 12 years.
As of yesterday, the logged out mobile experience got much worse for me. There is now a bottom-of-screen popup prompting you to login, advertise on reddit, or shop 'collectable avatars' (who the hell would do that...).
Every time you navigate back from a post to the feed, yet another popup. But I've come to recognize this is an intended feature and not a bug.
Every time you navigate back from a post to the feed, yet another popup. But I've come to recognize this is an intended feature and not a bug.
It's downright unusable to me without old.reddit.com. If they ever got rid of the old interface, I'd probably stop using it completely.
the_gipsy(1)
Congrats to Reddit and YC. An example of the adage that all successful businesses succeed despite themselves and why product market fit is so important.
I remember the early days.. I deleted that early account b/c reddit was so addictive. And it arguably still is. I remember receiving a few replies from Aaron. He was a kid who was living in the future way ahead of his time.
I migrated here though when reddit diversified subreddits.. kinda like when Facebook opened up to the world reddit became less useful for conversation.
And I've gone through a few accounts/handles for the same reasons here as reddit.
Downvotes and even distributed slashdot moderation work to discourage conversation and ultimately engagement unless you garner a critical mass to break out of the algorithm. I imagine post engagement follows Zipf's law. This probably explains why people buy upvotes and followers etc...
No site is immune to this as far as I can tell. Niche subbreddits help but then those tend to be actively moderated. Very specific forums also tend to be better for specific things (like car forums).
Good advice is to never read the comments to the things you post and I guess that means replies as well :) .. It's a weird dynamic because what all humans really need is to be heard..
And yet magic internet points are not quite the correct filter. Maybe AI will save us.
I remember the early days.. I deleted that early account b/c reddit was so addictive. And it arguably still is. I remember receiving a few replies from Aaron. He was a kid who was living in the future way ahead of his time.
I migrated here though when reddit diversified subreddits.. kinda like when Facebook opened up to the world reddit became less useful for conversation.
And I've gone through a few accounts/handles for the same reasons here as reddit.
Downvotes and even distributed slashdot moderation work to discourage conversation and ultimately engagement unless you garner a critical mass to break out of the algorithm. I imagine post engagement follows Zipf's law. This probably explains why people buy upvotes and followers etc...
No site is immune to this as far as I can tell. Niche subbreddits help but then those tend to be actively moderated. Very specific forums also tend to be better for specific things (like car forums).
Good advice is to never read the comments to the things you post and I guess that means replies as well :) .. It's a weird dynamic because what all humans really need is to be heard..
And yet magic internet points are not quite the correct filter. Maybe AI will save us.
https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit1.0