The ‘clean plate’ mentality drives us to overeat?(news.vanderbilt.edu)
news.vanderbilt.edu
The ‘clean plate’ mentality drives us to overeat?
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2018/11/27/the-clean-plate-mentality-drives-us-to-overeat-to-go-bags-can-help/
126 comments
My wife’s grandparents are very much the “you aren’t leaving until you clear your plate” kind of people and it’s given her mother a lot of anxiety around food and weight. I grew up in a family of 7 where food was scarce and some nights you were lucky to get anything at all for dinner so I’m also inclined to eat way too much at each meal.
Because of this (and for other reasons) we never ever make our daughter clear her plate. If she says she’s full she can walk away. We also keep healthy snacks around the house (fruits, vegetables, whole grains, a very small amount of “junk” food) so she does “graze” throughout the day. But we don’t force food habits on her because I don’t want her growing up with a complex around food or her weight. It’s more important to me that she make healthy nutrition choices overall and keeps in touch with her body about when she’s hungry. I feel like pushing for a clean plate goes against that.
Because of this (and for other reasons) we never ever make our daughter clear her plate. If she says she’s full she can walk away. We also keep healthy snacks around the house (fruits, vegetables, whole grains, a very small amount of “junk” food) so she does “graze” throughout the day. But we don’t force food habits on her because I don’t want her growing up with a complex around food or her weight. It’s more important to me that she make healthy nutrition choices overall and keeps in touch with her body about when she’s hungry. I feel like pushing for a clean plate goes against that.
I have exactly the same story. My grandparents gave my mother a borderline eating disorder. Happily she became a nutritionist and helps lots of people … but the depression-era trauma still affects us today.
Same story here too. It took me a long time to untrain myself from clearing my plate, so we try not to let our kids think that the quantity of food available should affect how much food they eat. It sounds so obvious when it's phrased that way.
My parents were like you (no pressure) and that worked really well across my childhood; then when I struck out on my own, I had a couple "Ramen years" that changed my habits into a clean-plater. Fortunately my metabolism is pretty okay, but it's starting to catch up with me, I now have to make a conscious effort to not over-portion, etc.
So it sounds like you're happy if she becomes a "healthy fat". Has it really come to this?
Our household rule was "if you put it on your plate you had to finish it; if someone else put it on your plate you don't have to" (with some parental modulation such as "yes you are having some of these Brussels sprouts" or "finish the beans before you go for seconds").
Parents don't like to see food wasted (it took money to buy and time to prepare and the alternatives aren't good for kids) but these rules were also on us: don't put an unreasonable amount of food on the kids' plates.
Parents don't like to see food wasted (it took money to buy and time to prepare and the alternatives aren't good for kids) but these rules were also on us: don't put an unreasonable amount of food on the kids' plates.
That makes sense as a training mechanism for kids to not just overfill their plates regardless of how hungry they are.
But it is important to realize that food that you force someone to eat after they feel properly full is worse than wasted. Not only have you already spent time and money to prepare it, which you won't get back, but you also just made their stomach ache. And you have taken whatever little agency they have as a kid - now they freaking don't even get to decide how hungry they are.
(This is not directed at you, as you seem to have a reasonable system in place. Your comment just seemed like a good place to plug this rant) :)
But it is important to realize that food that you force someone to eat after they feel properly full is worse than wasted. Not only have you already spent time and money to prepare it, which you won't get back, but you also just made their stomach ache. And you have taken whatever little agency they have as a kid - now they freaking don't even get to decide how hungry they are.
(This is not directed at you, as you seem to have a reasonable system in place. Your comment just seemed like a good place to plug this rant) :)
They do learn to have agency: think plan ahead and make your own decision. Live with the consequences of your decision.
As I noted every decision is modulated by parental intervention — if a kid made an obvious mistake, possibly intervene early “are you sure you want six bao? Just take a couple — you can always have more” or late “ok, but see the problem? Next time let’s be more careful.”
Yeah, parenting is non-algorithmic, and once (if?) you get good at it it’s too late to do it again.
As I noted every decision is modulated by parental intervention — if a kid made an obvious mistake, possibly intervene early “are you sure you want six bao? Just take a couple — you can always have more” or late “ok, but see the problem? Next time let’s be more careful.”
Yeah, parenting is non-algorithmic, and once (if?) you get good at it it’s too late to do it again.
> Yeah, parenting is non-algorithmic, and once (if?) you get good at it it’s too late to do it again.
Arguably multi-generational households with grandparents on hand are able to take advantage of this. This is perhaps not as useful as it was centuries ago, due to how fast society and the situations a family might face have shifted.
Arguably multi-generational households with grandparents on hand are able to take advantage of this. This is perhaps not as useful as it was centuries ago, due to how fast society and the situations a family might face have shifted.
Good point. This is one hypothesis for why human females live beyond the end of fertility (so-called “grandmother thesis”)
Do you think this could discourage kids from trying new foods, or does that come under "parental modulation", such that if you try it and don't like it, you don't have to eat it?
I think the idea that some foods should be avoided is learned from parents anyway. I’ve only ever seen it in the US.
At the risk of sounding preachy, I was raised with the “clean plate” philosophy and avoided overeating by planning beforehand what I could reasonably eat, and never putting anything more on my plate. Once you get rid of the incentive at the very end to eat just a bit more, I don’t see this as being a huge problem anymore.
It works when you serve yourself or otherwise have control over your own portions. When I moved away to college I found that suddenly I usually cleaned my plate and didn't overstuff myself. Ditto when I cook for myself.
Not everybody eats under those conditions. When I was a kid my parents would always put food on my plate, and I was expected to eat it all. They usually put too much, because nobody wants to be the parent who starves their kid. Similarly, restaurants always tend to err on the side of serving too much rather than too little, as do family gatherings or dinner parties where the guests do not serve themselves.
Not everybody eats under those conditions. When I was a kid my parents would always put food on my plate, and I was expected to eat it all. They usually put too much, because nobody wants to be the parent who starves their kid. Similarly, restaurants always tend to err on the side of serving too much rather than too little, as do family gatherings or dinner parties where the guests do not serve themselves.
Interestingly, the my parents were the ones serving me for the majority of my childhood. I guess they had already internalized this rule and knew how much food I needed ;)
At restaurants, we would usually skimp on appetizers and other “fluff” before the main course, which I have found makes the total amount of food not overly large.
At restaurants, we would usually skimp on appetizers and other “fluff” before the main course, which I have found makes the total amount of food not overly large.
Tbh your post reads as 'I avoided overeating by me learning how much I needed to eat and me never putting extra on the plate'
In reality I guess you had unusual parents who were good at telling how much you needed, so you didn't avoid this problem in any way at all, you were just not subject to it.
In reality I guess you had unusual parents who were good at telling how much you needed, so you didn't avoid this problem in any way at all, you were just not subject to it.
I need to serve myself now, so I still think the suggestion applies?
And I believe this is were the clean plate mentality came from, only take what you need, the rest can be saved for a later meal.
Having said that, as a kid and teenager I always felt that I could it a bigger portion so always took "too much", and finishing it once I was no longer hungry was never an issue. In that sense, clean plate mentality was a problem.
Having said that, as a kid and teenager I always felt that I could it a bigger portion so always took "too much", and finishing it once I was no longer hungry was never an issue. In that sense, clean plate mentality was a problem.
My dad grew up in The Great Depression, so waste was strongly eschewed. Like you, I do my best to put as much on my plate as I think I will actually eat.
But I was never told to clean my plate. I don't practice that philosophy.
I have a serious medical condition. The mental freedom to just say no to some of the food on my plate has played a critical role in my ability to manage my condition with diet and lifestyle.
I'm fine with finding ways to discourage waste. But I'm very much against the "clean your plate" policy.
But I was never told to clean my plate. I don't practice that philosophy.
I have a serious medical condition. The mental freedom to just say no to some of the food on my plate has played a critical role in my ability to manage my condition with diet and lifestyle.
I'm fine with finding ways to discourage waste. But I'm very much against the "clean your plate" policy.
I mean, I was never 100% on cleaning my plate; exceptions were sometimes made if I was sick or there was some other reason that eating everything was a bad idea. The goal was to minimize waste, even if the food was slightly unpleasant; but it’s not like this was militantly enforced. Really, just do whatever is best for you to reduce waste and stay healthy.
I was (and still am) a picky eater. I was diagnosed late in life with a genetic disorder, which is the reason I'm a picky eater. I was often criticized for being so picky, but I was never told to clean my plate.
It wasn't uncommon for my father to eat what was left on my plate rather than throw it out, but my right to decide what to put in my body was always respected.
I think that -- respecting a person's right to control what goes in their body -- is an excellent policy. I'm not trying to talk trash about your parents. I'm just saying it's possible to be anti-waste without this rule. There are other ways to do that and I think they are better.
It wasn't uncommon for my father to eat what was left on my plate rather than throw it out, but my right to decide what to put in my body was always respected.
I think that -- respecting a person's right to control what goes in their body -- is an excellent policy. I'm not trying to talk trash about your parents. I'm just saying it's possible to be anti-waste without this rule. There are other ways to do that and I think they are better.
> I think that -- respecting a person's right to control what goes in their body -- is an excellent policy.
This sounds great but breaks down at implementation. My 5 y/o is not yet equipped with the mental discipline to have this autonomy. We force him to try everything we put on his plate. New foods are introduced in small quantities to prevent wastage, but we fully expect him to try all the weird things he is quite sure he hates. If we gave him autonomy, he’d choose candy and soda.
My view on parenting in general is that the whole point is to teach kids to be independent (and to live their own lives in their own houses). But autonomy is granted as a child learns and is capable of understanding the tradeoffs of decisons. And that is the hard part. It’s very simple to take either extreme: “here’s your dinner, eat it!”; “it’s your dinner, eat what you will.” But I think it’s my job as a parent to teach my kid to appreciate food; to eat a balanced meal; to fill up on veggies and supplement with meat and bread; to drink water over soda; that you can’t skip the salad and expect snacks later; that if you choose to not eat that means you’ll be hungry later (where I typically bring back what we had as dinner as the food option); etc.
Really, I think this whole parenting thing is a crapshoot. But I find comfort knowing I’m helping support some future therapist who can help my kids overcome all of my mistakes. It’s my contribution to America’s future GDP...
This sounds great but breaks down at implementation. My 5 y/o is not yet equipped with the mental discipline to have this autonomy. We force him to try everything we put on his plate. New foods are introduced in small quantities to prevent wastage, but we fully expect him to try all the weird things he is quite sure he hates. If we gave him autonomy, he’d choose candy and soda.
My view on parenting in general is that the whole point is to teach kids to be independent (and to live their own lives in their own houses). But autonomy is granted as a child learns and is capable of understanding the tradeoffs of decisons. And that is the hard part. It’s very simple to take either extreme: “here’s your dinner, eat it!”; “it’s your dinner, eat what you will.” But I think it’s my job as a parent to teach my kid to appreciate food; to eat a balanced meal; to fill up on veggies and supplement with meat and bread; to drink water over soda; that you can’t skip the salad and expect snacks later; that if you choose to not eat that means you’ll be hungry later (where I typically bring back what we had as dinner as the food option); etc.
Really, I think this whole parenting thing is a crapshoot. But I find comfort knowing I’m helping support some future therapist who can help my kids overcome all of my mistakes. It’s my contribution to America’s future GDP...
> We force him to try everything we put on his plate.
As long as a child is receiving adequate nutrition, is it necessary to force him to expand his culinary horizons? Natural curiosity tends to balance out temporary fixation in the absence of such abnormal thinking that might arise from feeling a lack of control.
> If we gave him autonomy, he’d choose candy and soda.
Whether or not this is the case, there's a difference between allowing choice and allowing all choices, and there's a difference between imposing quality and imposing quantity. But, I don't think the stereotype of a kid binging on junk-food without boundary is accurate outside families that build such foods into a rare, prized(!) and denied commodity. It's just unfortunate that that attitude is so pervasive.
As long as a child is receiving adequate nutrition, is it necessary to force him to expand his culinary horizons? Natural curiosity tends to balance out temporary fixation in the absence of such abnormal thinking that might arise from feeling a lack of control.
> If we gave him autonomy, he’d choose candy and soda.
Whether or not this is the case, there's a difference between allowing choice and allowing all choices, and there's a difference between imposing quality and imposing quantity. But, I don't think the stereotype of a kid binging on junk-food without boundary is accurate outside families that build such foods into a rare, prized(!) and denied commodity. It's just unfortunate that that attitude is so pervasive.
> [I]s it necessary to force him to expand his culinary horizons?
I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows. But I’m guessing yes. There’s a natural internal conflict between curiosity and the comfort of routine. Every person (and thus every child) has a different predisposition in this spectrum. There are some kids you can probably get away with letting curiosity win. Our 5 y/o does not appear to me to be that kind of person. I expect he’d be very happy to live in our basement into his 30’s. Or maybe 50’s. Every kid is different.
> I don't think the stereotype of a kid binging on junk-food without boundary is accurate outside families that build such foods into a rare, prized(!) and denied commodity.
I thought this once but no longer do. Every kid is different, but our youngest is very happy to be “full” at dinner (i.e., “I don’t like that food”) and want snacks in 20 min. To which I present him his dinner plate.
I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows. But I’m guessing yes. There’s a natural internal conflict between curiosity and the comfort of routine. Every person (and thus every child) has a different predisposition in this spectrum. There are some kids you can probably get away with letting curiosity win. Our 5 y/o does not appear to me to be that kind of person. I expect he’d be very happy to live in our basement into his 30’s. Or maybe 50’s. Every kid is different.
> I don't think the stereotype of a kid binging on junk-food without boundary is accurate outside families that build such foods into a rare, prized(!) and denied commodity.
I thought this once but no longer do. Every kid is different, but our youngest is very happy to be “full” at dinner (i.e., “I don’t like that food”) and want snacks in 20 min. To which I present him his dinner plate.
This sounds great but breaks down at implementation
I was a full-time mom for many years. It did not break down in implementation in my home. In a nutshell, I made healthy options that my kids liked available in adequate quantity. I did not find that they wanted to live on candy.
FWIW, I also required them to taste new foods, especially fruits and vegetables, and not simply reject things out of hand. Though I was a lot younger back then. I'm not sure if I would do that these days if I were raising kids, which isn't likely to happen. But I did do that at the time.
I was a full-time mom for many years. It did not break down in implementation in my home. In a nutshell, I made healthy options that my kids liked available in adequate quantity. I did not find that they wanted to live on candy.
FWIW, I also required them to taste new foods, especially fruits and vegetables, and not simply reject things out of hand. Though I was a lot younger back then. I'm not sure if I would do that these days if I were raising kids, which isn't likely to happen. But I did do that at the time.
Don't you think your condition is special and do not apply to majority? But even if you are a picky eater, the solution seems easy. Just put on your plate enough for a tip of your tongue. If you don't like it it's fine, not much has been wasted that way. There you go. You can keep clear plate rule. Still, I think the major problem is not clear or not the plate but rather do you have an influence on how much it goes on the plate in the first place.
Food impacting health is not some weird anomaly that only applies to me. My condition exaggerates the importance. That's all.
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I have a friend who preaches this. But then she also has these regular high-tea parties where everybody brings cake. Ok, they eat all the cake, but since they are eating more than they actually need, it's still a waste ...
Except when people serve you and you still must finish your plate
Right. Don’t be greedy and control how much you put on your plate so you won’t overeat or waste food.
Are Americans incapable of doing this?
Are Americans incapable of doing this?
At least where I live in Norway I would argue that it is not the amount of food you eat during a meal that is a problem but everything else in between regular meals (coke, chocolate, chips etc.).
I've eliminated all snacking and soda calories from my life and I still have a big problem with maintaining/losing weight. Definitely should be helping though.
Maybe lower your carb intake or incorporate a daily intermittent fasting regime. What does your usual day look like food-wise?
So you're eating 4-5 meals a day, I suppose? Eat two meals and you will lose weight. Simple as that.
I'm usually two or three meals. Just hard to control portion consistently.
Try weighing out your carbs and the rest of the meal should sort itself out. Pasta and rice should be about 100-125g for a normal man.
and smaller portions
I wonder if this has been replicated - wasn't immediately obvious to me, and I'm now perhaps overly suspicious of any and all food science claims after the Wansink disaster:
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/19/17879102/br...
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/19/17879102/br...
Mom: "There are starving kids in China, eat all your food!". Thanks Mom; kids are still starving there, and now America is fat. --unkown comedian.
I was told, as a kid, that it was rude to not eat all the food put in front of you, especially at other people's houses. Other parents would comment on how polite we children were for clearing our plates.
I was told, as a kid, that it was rude to not eat all the food put in front of you, especially at other people's houses. Other parents would comment on how polite we children were for clearing our plates.
It’s funny because I think in China or some other Asian countries it’s considered rude to actual clean off your whole plate, you should always leave a little bit. Otherwise what you’re basically saying is “What the fuck!? You’re so fucking poor you can’t afford to give me more than enough food?”
> "There are starving kids in China, eat all your food!"
This does not make much sense to me. If eating all your food is the only alternative to throwing food out, it is sort of OK, but even then, it does not solve the issue at all because you are the one eating all the food, not the starving kids in China.
Additionally, why come up with such nonsense? This is one of the worst things you could do to your kid. You should instead educate them and tell them the actual reasons for why one should not waste food.
Mind you, if you cook less instead, then you would not have to eat them, nor throw them out. :)
This does not make much sense to me. If eating all your food is the only alternative to throwing food out, it is sort of OK, but even then, it does not solve the issue at all because you are the one eating all the food, not the starving kids in China.
Additionally, why come up with such nonsense? This is one of the worst things you could do to your kid. You should instead educate them and tell them the actual reasons for why one should not waste food.
Mind you, if you cook less instead, then you would not have to eat them, nor throw them out. :)
The missing implication, that even parents completely missed, was “you should be grateful to have food, and you show that gratitude by eating all the food on your plate.”
Still completely unhelpful to the starving, and still orthogonal...
Still completely unhelpful to the starving, and still orthogonal...
And also that eating all your food implies that you thought it tasted good. Leaving a bunch behind says: I didn't like it.
I think what they are really meaning is "There are starving kids out in the world. Be grateful you have all this food available and don't waste it."
Hmm, yes, I agree with that, but then again: if the kid's parents were to cook less, then the kid would not have had to eat it "forcefully". The only reason I assume force here is because the kid would not need any reasons to be told if s/he is hungry. It seems to me that this is a special scenario, but being grateful for the things you have is not, and should not be a special case, IMO.
I am not sure that this is how I would teach my kid to be grateful, especially because the kid might perceive it to be forced and might backfire in the future.
Anyways, we might be overthinking this. :)
I am not sure that this is how I would teach my kid to be grateful, especially because the kid might perceive it to be forced and might backfire in the future.
Anyways, we might be overthinking this. :)
It's not so much about "I cooked a lot of food, eat all of it" as it is about "you ate the French fries but haven't touched the broccoli," usually. In other words, it's a cliche dragged out when a kid is being picky about something.
Do you have kids? Some of the little kids I've known would literally not want to eat anything all day. I don't know if they didn't feel hunger or just didn't yet associate it with eating. And plenty of kids (and adults!) will refuse food they don't like even if they are 'hungry', because during a normal western life they don't actually get that hungry. Because parents don't want to starve their kid into eating vegetables, they need to find methods other than "let them go hungry".
That is not the case being talked about, and even in your case, this is still not how I would teach my kid to be grateful. I never said I would let them go hungry, I am really not sure from where you got that.
I assume you are only responding to "the kid would not need any reasons to be told if s/he is hungry.". It is true in most cases, I was not accounting for depression and so on, but that in itself might dissipate hunger.
Most toddlers will eat when they are hungry, they will not just go hungry. Power play or power struggles complicates things, I deliberately did not bring it into this. Regardless, I still do not see that it is necessary to come up with reasons that are completely wrong or silly. :)
I assume you are only responding to "the kid would not need any reasons to be told if s/he is hungry.". It is true in most cases, I was not accounting for depression and so on, but that in itself might dissipate hunger.
Most toddlers will eat when they are hungry, they will not just go hungry. Power play or power struggles complicates things, I deliberately did not bring it into this. Regardless, I still do not see that it is necessary to come up with reasons that are completely wrong or silly. :)
Yes, if you simplified it to the point of triviality then every comment on the topic is silly. That's basically how parenting works.
I do not see how that follows, and from what, even.
It is authoritarian parenting - it isn't supposed to make sense it is done because it is done or else the consequences.
When I studied in France, my host family taught me that, instead, it was an insult to eat everything on your plate.
Eating everything on your plate indicated that you were ravenously hungry, taking advantage of your host's hospitality.
Leaving just a little uneaten meant that you ate as much as you could because you found the food delicious.
Eating everything on your plate indicated that you were ravenously hungry, taking advantage of your host's hospitality.
Leaving just a little uneaten meant that you ate as much as you could because you found the food delicious.
Mom: There are starving children in Africa.
Me: Got a stamp?
Mom: <SMACK!>
Me: Got a stamp?
Mom: <SMACK!>
I know that Allen Sherman did a version of that joke in his "Ode to Fat People" :-)
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Speculation, but does food waste reduce food prices?
It makes absolutely no difference if you eat the extra food on your plate or if you throw it at the trash (how could it?). The only thing that changes is that one gets you fatter.
China? These days it is largely not suffering the problem of starving people. There are new countries who joined this "club" though. Not to mention Venezuela and Yemen where everyone is on brink of death from starvation.
My grandparents were poor Oklahoman migrants. You ate your food when you had it; you and your neighbors were close to starvation. You cooked your meat (when you had it) thououghly because it wasn't always fresh. You kept every little thing so you have something later.
These behaviors are passed down through generations, but what was adaptive is now maladaptive.
These behaviors are passed down through generations, but what was adaptive is now maladaptive.
The best that ever happened to my health was gaining complete control over what I eat.
I eat only what I want, when I want. And how much I want.
The trade off, of course, is dying alone. But hey, health!
I eat only what I want, when I want. And how much I want.
The trade off, of course, is dying alone. But hey, health!
> dying alone
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a partner and eat differently to them. It's pretty common where someone has a dietary requirement.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a partner and eat differently to them. It's pretty common where someone has a dietary requirement.
It seems odd those would be related.
I feel like that, I am from a violent family who would force me to finish my plate, now it’s very hard for me not to finish at the restaurant.
Beeminder taking this to characteristic extremes: https://blog.beeminder.com/waisted
I was affected by a similar philosophy for a long time. For me, it’s an aversion to wastefulness for the theoretical sake of ecology and economics. The logical flaw I’m seeing now is that overeating to the point of obesity or indigestion is more of a waste and throwing the food away, and what I need to do is purchase less or give it to someone else.
Even worse, I have celiac and an esophagus condition that is much worse with overeating, and habitually at restaurants I’d clean my plate because I thought getting a takeout box was a waste, but I did not want to see the food be thrown out. I also see a similar pattern with containers of packaged food. I’m much more likely to finish that last one or two cookies or handfuls of chip crumbs and leave them for later.
I’m not sure that this study contains any new useful advice, but it is a real phenomenon.
Even worse, I have celiac and an esophagus condition that is much worse with overeating, and habitually at restaurants I’d clean my plate because I thought getting a takeout box was a waste, but I did not want to see the food be thrown out. I also see a similar pattern with containers of packaged food. I’m much more likely to finish that last one or two cookies or handfuls of chip crumbs and leave them for later.
I’m not sure that this study contains any new useful advice, but it is a real phenomenon.
This was annoying growing up in a household with a stay-at-home european mother who cooked huge, delicious, but calorie-dense meals. We were taught to always clean our plates, but were expected to say "when" while the chef served and never actually stopped immediately upon hearing "when".
In adulthood though, having completely restructured my diet to something devoid of calorie-dense, quickly-digested fillers, none of this matters. I never have leftovers of whatever I'm eating, just to avoid the hassle; food going bad, or simply less cleanup. It's of no lasting negative consequence to my weight.
I think this issue is largely a red herring as a result. What you're eating dictates the significance of how much. If you fix the what, how much becomes irrelevant.
In adulthood though, having completely restructured my diet to something devoid of calorie-dense, quickly-digested fillers, none of this matters. I never have leftovers of whatever I'm eating, just to avoid the hassle; food going bad, or simply less cleanup. It's of no lasting negative consequence to my weight.
I think this issue is largely a red herring as a result. What you're eating dictates the significance of how much. If you fix the what, how much becomes irrelevant.
The real innovation here is - to-go bags.
Just keep a spare zip-loc bag in your pocket, ready for the sudden and embarrassing situation when you are full with food left on the plate.
Just keep a spare zip-loc bag in your pocket, ready for the sudden and embarrassing situation when you are full with food left on the plate.
The almond experiment sounds ridiculous! Asking people to imagine eating ten chocololate-covered almonds then to guess how much they’d like to eat another after their hypothetical consumption? Does this produce results as reliable as actually eating the almonds in the first place?
The reminds me of the "bottomless bowls" experiment [0]. I know it from a TV show where it was recreated a few years ago but it was actually a real study.
> Using self-refilling soup bowls, this study examined whether visual cues related to portion size can influence intake volume without altering either estimated intake or satiation.
> Participants who were unknowingly eating from self-refilling bowls ate more soup than those eating from normal soup bowls. However, despite consuming 73% more, they did not believe they had consumed more, nor did they perceive themselves as more sated than those eating from normal bowls. This was unaffected by BMI.
[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15761167
> Using self-refilling soup bowls, this study examined whether visual cues related to portion size can influence intake volume without altering either estimated intake or satiation.
> Participants who were unknowingly eating from self-refilling bowls ate more soup than those eating from normal soup bowls. However, despite consuming 73% more, they did not believe they had consumed more, nor did they perceive themselves as more sated than those eating from normal bowls. This was unaffected by BMI.
[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15761167
So either you eat yourself into a depression or you get depressed because your constant throwing away is fucking up [your ability to stay on] the planet. Such great times to be alive.
It also happens in reverse: you tend to fill the size of plate you have, the size of glass, etc.
At buffets I either pick small plates or intentionally pick a small number of items regardless of how much of the plate is used.
With soda for instance I eventually realized that the main reason I was drinking a certain amount was a combination of the cup size and the straw. I switched to tiny cups that I drank from directly and found I could easily make that last a meal and have some left. Now I barely drink soda.
At buffets I either pick small plates or intentionally pick a small number of items regardless of how much of the plate is used.
With soda for instance I eventually realized that the main reason I was drinking a certain amount was a combination of the cup size and the straw. I switched to tiny cups that I drank from directly and found I could easily make that last a meal and have some left. Now I barely drink soda.
As a rule of thumb, I tell myself that it’s better to throw away food than to overeat. (Preparing just the right amount is even better, but more difficult.)
What about saving for the next day, composting or donating?
As a former professional cook it burns me to see such a casual suggestion to waste food. I’ve worked for people who would weigh the food you swept up off the floor at the end of the day to illustrate waste.
As a former professional cook it burns me to see such a casual suggestion to waste food. I’ve worked for people who would weigh the food you swept up off the floor at the end of the day to illustrate waste.
You’re a professional cook, and personal food waste bothers you?
That’s surprising to me given my own experience behind the scenes with institutional food service, which involved massive amounts of waste.
That’s surprising to me given my own experience behind the scenes with institutional food service, which involved massive amounts of waste.
Oh, for each stickler I’ve worked for who cared about waste, I’ve still worked for 3 others who couldn’t care less. I’ve seen heartbreaking amounts of perfectly edible food go in the trash can. Not even employees could eat it, they had to buy their own meals afterwards.
It's not just the cooked food you're throwing away, it's also the parts of the vegetables that you're dumping.
For years I had been throwing the stem of the broccoli into the compost only to find out that it's not only edible but it's really tasty.
Then I hear that the leaves of radish is also edible, so that gets thrown into a stir-fry / omelette / stamppot / salad for another meal..
For years I had been throwing the stem of the broccoli into the compost only to find out that it's not only edible but it's really tasty.
Then I hear that the leaves of radish is also edible, so that gets thrown into a stir-fry / omelette / stamppot / salad for another meal..
Totally, it’s fun to learn just how much our bodies can use! I use broccoli stems make broccoli cheddar soup :) If nothing else, freeze raw veggie scraps and meat trimmings/fat/bone for stock and turn them into soups or sauces. I freeze stock in ice cube trays, store in a gallon ziplock and throw one or two into rice, quinoa, etc.
Composting is just one (preferred) way to throw away food.
Saving for the next day and especially donating isn't practical in the small amounts we're talking about.
Personal home cooking is very different from large scale professional kitchens / dining.
Saving for the next day and especially donating isn't practical in the small amounts we're talking about.
Personal home cooking is very different from large scale professional kitchens / dining.
Both professional and personal cooking vary widely depending on who’s doing the work. I’ve seen careful and careless practices in both.
You might be surprised though how leftovers are recombined to form new dishes, even in large scale operations. Working with what you got can be just as important as food safety, foundational knowledge or technique.
It helps to have a few go-to recipes that can accept a wide variety of ingredients in small portions. For me, I usually go to either omelettes, veggie burgers or fried rice / stir fry.
Donating is the hardest one for sure due to laws and logistics. I’ve taken to giving out my extra sourdough bread or cinnamon rolls to friends and neighbors, or have my wife take them to the office; there’s always one or two that we know we won’t get to before they go bad (if we want to maintain our physiques anyways).
You might be surprised though how leftovers are recombined to form new dishes, even in large scale operations. Working with what you got can be just as important as food safety, foundational knowledge or technique.
It helps to have a few go-to recipes that can accept a wide variety of ingredients in small portions. For me, I usually go to either omelettes, veggie burgers or fried rice / stir fry.
Donating is the hardest one for sure due to laws and logistics. I’ve taken to giving out my extra sourdough bread or cinnamon rolls to friends and neighbors, or have my wife take them to the office; there’s always one or two that we know we won’t get to before they go bad (if we want to maintain our physiques anyways).
For myself at least, saving food for the next day is rather difficult. Mainly because nowadays I very seldom cook food for myself, a lot of my food consumption is through ready made meals that I can just put in the oven or microwave. The packaging almost always warns that this type of food cannot be reheated so I don't save it. I think a lot of people do this.
Even if I do cook for myself I am often unsure whether it is safe to reheat the food, and for how long.
Even if I do cook for myself I am often unsure whether it is safe to reheat the food, and for how long.
The packaging is lying to you. Reheating is not a danger. Leaving food out for too long is a danger.
The worst case is that reheating doesn't reset the timer. If you put the leftovers into your fridge within a few minutes of eating, you have tons of time left on the timer, and don't need to worry at all.
The worst case is that reheating doesn't reset the timer. If you put the leftovers into your fridge within a few minutes of eating, you have tons of time left on the timer, and don't need to worry at all.
As long as you keep the food in the fridge and heat it properly when you reheat it (so it gets boiling hot) the vast majority of food keeps for several days in the fridge.
I leave pea soup and pot currys at room temp (19-23c) for 24-48 hours before I eat them; after that they keep for several days in the fridge.
If you live in a warm climate and/or leave food uncovered all day then you're asking for problems. In those cases I wouldn't reheat them..
I leave pea soup and pot currys at room temp (19-23c) for 24-48 hours before I eat them; after that they keep for several days in the fridge.
If you live in a warm climate and/or leave food uncovered all day then you're asking for problems. In those cases I wouldn't reheat them..
The finish-your-plate mentality can be especially troublesome in a household where food disappears quickly. I had an older brother and a dad who ate a lot, so if I didn’t take enough food in my first serving then I might not get any more.
It took me well into college to realize that (especially in a dining hall) I could serve myself a conservative-sized portion and get more later if I was still hungry.
It took me well into college to realize that (especially in a dining hall) I could serve myself a conservative-sized portion and get more later if I was still hungry.
Coming from south asia, I wish cleaning your plate was enough in my family. If you don’t take seconds and thirds it’s an insult to the host.
If I go out for dinner and get served a big meal, I'm going to stuff myself silly and if I eat breakfast at all the next morning it'll be a banana or something. It really isn't hard to balance out your calorie intake across meals. I have a hard time believing that the insidious 'clean plate' mentality is the real culprit behind why so many people are fat.
I never really understood why one shouldn't waste food. On other hand there are several reasons why one might waste a bit of it (may be it wasn't as tasty as expected/you overestimated your hunger).
It's not like food prices fluctuate based on everyone wasting certain portion of food. Global food prices are usually dependent on the supply side more than demand side.
It's not like food prices fluctuate based on everyone wasting certain portion of food. Global food prices are usually dependent on the supply side more than demand side.
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Simple rule: if you put food on your own plate you should eat it all, if someone else puts food on your plate you are allowed to leave as much or as little of it as you want. That way you will hopefully learn to take only as much food as you will want to eat.
Another solution is making smaller portions. The sizes restaurants give you are ginormous.
This seems like an under served market. When I was in SE Asia I loved the fact that I could purchase small meals off the street at regular intervals. They were inexpensive and hassle free.
Most American restaurant portions are absurdly sized. Any meal I get in a restaurant these days is almost always lunch for the next day too.
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Ridiculous idea to downvote. I almost never finish restaurant meals, I’ll take the second half for lunch the next day or give it to someone on the walk home.
But suggesting portion control would be advocating more personal responsibility, so maybe that explains peoples’ “disagreement.” So much easier to toss in the trash, right?
But suggesting portion control would be advocating more personal responsibility, so maybe that explains peoples’ “disagreement.” So much easier to toss in the trash, right?
I always feel bad when asking to pack the leftovers at the restaurant.
is it rude or a sign of being poor? I'm unsure.
is it rude or a sign of being poor? I'm unsure.
If it weren’t expected, restaurants wouldn’t keep stacks of to-go boxes lying around. As for a sign of being poor, who gives a shit? I’m obviously wealthy enough to eat at your restaurant. And if you’d like me to share some of that wealth again, you’ll box thus shit up without comment.
But enough anonymous internet tough guy talk, I’ve been taking home food for decades and no one has ever uttered a word. Olive Garden to $200/person, it’ll get boxed with a smile. Hell, waitstaff often come around and ask if you want a box (which I sometimes take to mean, “I’d like to turn this table, Slowpoke.” <g>).
But enough anonymous internet tough guy talk, I’ve been taking home food for decades and no one has ever uttered a word. Olive Garden to $200/person, it’ll get boxed with a smile. Hell, waitstaff often come around and ask if you want a box (which I sometimes take to mean, “I’d like to turn this table, Slowpoke.” <g>).
In the U.S. no one cares. Maybe you'll get a look in a very expensive restaurant but they'll probably do it anyway.
I've had food boxed up in a ~$100 per person restaurant before and it was completely normal for them.
I've had food boxed up in a ~$100 per person restaurant before and it was completely normal for them.
Nah, they know they're serving you twice as much food as a human can eat.
Cut everything neatly in half when it arrives and move it off to the side for easy boxing. Then eat a sensible amount and ask for a box for the rest.
Places that don't expect this will signal as much by serving you a portion that wont make you ill.
Cut everything neatly in half when it arrives and move it off to the side for easy boxing. Then eat a sensible amount and ask for a box for the rest.
Places that don't expect this will signal as much by serving you a portion that wont make you ill.
Asking to pack the leftovers is a complement! It says, this was so delicious, I want to have it again. I've had chefs at small restaurants thank me with huge smiles when I asked for a box.
I do feel bad when I can't (or won't) finish, and don't ask for a box. Aiming to eat only half the meal, so you have a good amount to bring home can sometimes help avoid overconsumption, too.
I do feel bad when I can't (or won't) finish, and don't ask for a box. Aiming to eat only half the meal, so you have a good amount to bring home can sometimes help avoid overconsumption, too.
At least here (Germany) it's totally normal and no one would think anything of it.
No one cares
> advocating more personal responsibility
It's interesting that nobody wondered people are just concerned that food would get more expensive.
Restaurants set their prices by complex rules, and if people just started some movement to reduce portion sizes on the "if you want more, you can always ask for 2" argument, with no extra change, it's almost a certainty that prices would raise.
It's interesting that nobody wondered people are just concerned that food would get more expensive.
Restaurants set their prices by complex rules, and if people just started some movement to reduce portion sizes on the "if you want more, you can always ask for 2" argument, with no extra change, it's almost a certainty that prices would raise.
I believe part of that is that usually the bulk of the cost of food is the labor and not the ingredients unless you have something 'extra fancy' with ingridents. If it takes as much work to make a cup of pasta as it does to make a quart or gallon of pasta.
An extra serving would add more labor as the expensive part and not save anything. The way to avoid that would be to keep a fresh surplus in the kitchen which would get wasted anyway.
Essentially it would unfortunately amount to 'efficiency theater' without very large assumption changes - sodas for instance have free refills because it is already a massive profit margin due to the sticky price-point where everyone expects it to be a dollar something while the actual cost is measured in pennies. You would die of water intoxication before they would realize a loss from refills.
An extra serving would add more labor as the expensive part and not save anything. The way to avoid that would be to keep a fresh surplus in the kitchen which would get wasted anyway.
Essentially it would unfortunately amount to 'efficiency theater' without very large assumption changes - sodas for instance have free refills because it is already a massive profit margin due to the sticky price-point where everyone expects it to be a dollar something while the actual cost is measured in pennies. You would die of water intoxication before they would realize a loss from refills.
Bingo. I feel coffee shops are the worst for this. No I don't want a bucket of milk still with only one shot of coffee in.
Theres also the problem that no one ever complained that the portions were too big. Small portions could make people feel ripped off.
Theres also the problem that no one ever complained that the portions were too big. Small portions could make people feel ripped off.
Agreed. And they won't sell the "kid" portions to adults.
One of the nice things about having kids is that you have a socially acceptable way to purchase a happy meal for yourself. (Because how are they to know how many kids you have.)
It's the only workable way to get a sensible fast food portion size.
It's the only workable way to get a sensible fast food portion size.
Restaurant portions of of crappy food (high calorie, low nutrient, heavily over salted) are large.
Restaurant portions of food you’d actually do well to eat on a regular basis aren’t large. They’re usually tiny compared to DIY at home.
Order a “pasta with scallops” for an extreme example of how many you actually get vs what you could get if you cooked it yourself.
Restaurant portions of food you’d actually do well to eat on a regular basis aren’t large. They’re usually tiny compared to DIY at home.
Order a “pasta with scallops” for an extreme example of how many you actually get vs what you could get if you cooked it yourself.
The amount of scallops is probably reasonable, but the pound and a half of pasta you get is not.
I'll never totally give up the clean plate mentality but at the same time, giving up the clean plate mentality was instrumental for me losing weight. Just put less on your plate. Then add more, judiciously.
This should be common sense.
Obviously, wasting food is bad. But if you've already served yourself too much, it's a sunk cost. This should be taught to kids, even if it's a somewhat more complicated lesson.
Obviously, wasting food is bad. But if you've already served yourself too much, it's a sunk cost. This should be taught to kids, even if it's a somewhat more complicated lesson.
I never leave anything on the plate, unless it's so bad I wouldn't eat it even if I was starving. I do this even at all-you-can-eat buffets.
To avoid overeating, I only eat once a day.
To avoid overeating, I only eat once a day.
the leftovers are food for my enemies <- my mom
so I always had to finish.
so I always had to finish.
An abundance of food and a willingness to take more than you need if the cause. "Clean plate" would not be an issue if there wasn't too much already on the plate.
Furthermore, what's on the plate matters as well. Three fried pieces of chicken and mashed potatoes with gravy is not the same as broiled chicken with steamed vegetables.
I suspect - based on anecdotal evidence - people who often over eat also too often eat badly.
Furthermore, what's on the plate matters as well. Three fried pieces of chicken and mashed potatoes with gravy is not the same as broiled chicken with steamed vegetables.
I suspect - based on anecdotal evidence - people who often over eat also too often eat badly.
just get smaller plates. large plates encourage over eating by encouraging you to put more food on them than is reasonable.
That was the key for me. I switched to smaller plates, and I quit gaining weight. It helped enforce portion control, which I am horribly bad at if left to my own devices.
the takeaway it's to order children portions when eating outside and use smaller plates when at home
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When you eat only two meals a day, every plate is clean. Trust me. You shouldn't eat anything at all outside of meal time.
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This article reads to me like a PR piece for the (marketing) professor more than an honest showcasing of scientific findings: The results are very relatable and feel intuitively true so as a reader it's easy to pick it up as "ammunition" for future family dinner discussions and thus are also good for the media to publish. So there's no need for rigorous science. (I mean come on, "participants were asked to imagine eating a certain number of cookies (...) and then asked how much they wanted one more cookie.")