Unheard History of Bodybuilding Forums(melmagazine.com)
melmagazine.com
Unheard History of Bodybuilding Forums
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-unheard-history-of-bodybuilding-forums-as-told-by-the-trolls-and-counter-trolls-who-made-them-huge
77 comments
Awesome thread, where body builders argue about how many days there are in a week: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751
Wow that thread is gold hahaha! Bodybuilders making a classic programming off-by-one fencepost error https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-by-one_error
Yes! I have been looking for a name for this type of error for a long, long time.
|{i, i+1, i+2, ..., n}| = (n - i) + 1 is a little clunkier to say
|{i, i+1, i+2, ..., n}| = (n - i) + 1 is a little clunkier to say
Also known as an 'Obiwan error'.¹
1: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/O/obi-wan-error.html
1: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/O/obi-wan-error.html
Glad I could help! So satisfying to find a concise name/explanation/rule/heuristic for describing complicated phenomena. ^_^
It is reviewed at length by the incredible Jon Bois (you might know him as the author of 17776): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECjjLNAOd4
Omg, this is awesome. I love this quote:
> "You don't count what day it is when counting days, I just explained that. If today is SATURDAY, it's not 2 days until SUNDAY now is it?"
The sheer concept that Sunday to Sunday = 1 week versus Sunday to Saturday = 1 week is kind of bending my brain.
> "You don't count what day it is when counting days, I just explained that. If today is SATURDAY, it's not 2 days until SUNDAY now is it?"
The sheer concept that Sunday to Sunday = 1 week versus Sunday to Saturday = 1 week is kind of bending my brain.
"Sorry to hijack, but Josh dude how are you arguing with a calender?"
"He is in Josh world. The g'damn dumbest world in the universe!"
Classic. Reminds me of arguing Xbox vs Playstation as a teen on neogaf.com.
"He is in Josh world. The g'damn dumbest world in the universe!"
Classic. Reminds me of arguing Xbox vs Playstation as a teen on neogaf.com.
This whole article takes me back to the late 90s/early 2000s gaming message boards when NeoGAF was simply "Gaming Age Forums".
A lot of shit talking, and some on-topic discussion about gaming every now and then.
What a wonderful time to have been a teen.
A lot of shit talking, and some on-topic discussion about gaming every now and then.
What a wonderful time to have been a teen.
Shit talking/posting on gaming forums do still exists. I joined a 20-year old forum 2 years ago and some thread are funny and some threads are on-topic
Just so I'm clear we're all team Justin, right?
Sun -> Mon = 1,
Mon -> Tue = 2,
Tue -> Wed = 3,
Wed -> Thu = 4,
Thu -> Fri = 5,
Fri -> Sat = 6,
Sat -> Sun = 7
So Sun -> Sun = 7 days = 1 week!
OP's mixing duration with a "period" of time.
So Sun -> Sun = 7 days = 1 week!
OP's mixing duration with a "period" of time.
[deleted]
Thank you for sharing. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. This was my previous favorite bodybuilding thread: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161809003&pa...
That's up there with the original frogtech bulk
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=174863921&pa...
A WEEK IS NOOOOTTTTT SUN-SUN!!!! IT'S SUN-SAT, S-E-V-E-N-DAYS!!!!
Sun-Sat is only 6 days?!
Sunday ONE
Monday TWO
Tuesday THREE
Wednesday FOUR
Thursday FIVE
Friday SIX
Saturday SEVEN
Arizona public schools=FAIL
Another hilarious thread from bbf: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139812923&pa...
This seems to have taken the role of the Onion's Outkube project:
https://www.theonion.com/new-decoy-website-launched-to-lure-...
It was actually implemented and comments were just going wild. Here is one thread on the WaybackMachine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120214071531/http://outkube.com...
https://www.theonion.com/new-decoy-website-launched-to-lure-...
It was actually implemented and comments were just going wild. Here is one thread on the WaybackMachine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120214071531/http://outkube.com...
Now the ultimate argument for gym goers, do you count the bar?
http://i.4cdn.org/fit/1554264639754.jpg
http://i.4cdn.org/fit/1554264639754.jpg
Hilarious! Reminds me of the classic Fark streetlight thread, which sadly has lost all of it's images looks like:
https://www.fark.com/comments/2618004/WTF-did-I-just-take-a-...
https://www.fark.com/comments/2618004/WTF-did-I-just-take-a-...
This is probably the funniest forum post of all time, it was the first thing I thought of when I read the title here, unfortunately it ends on a depressing note:
> My point was proved by smarter people, if you take a single week, not two weeks, just a single week, and workout every other day, you can workout 4 days a week, the end, stop bitching.
> My point was proved by smarter people, if you take a single week, not two weeks, just a single week, and workout every other day, you can workout 4 days a week, the end, stop bitching.
[deleted]
Very funny. I also am often in a discussion where I develop some theory about something and only after a while start thinking "Huh? What am I talking about? This makes no sense.". Happens to the best of us.
This is priceless. Thank you.
Thanks for that, extremely entertaining, fun to read! :)
"That's terrific you have alot of money. Can you lend me $800? I'll pay you back $100 every other day for 2 weeks. Sound cool?"
"That's terrific you have alot of money. Can you lend me $800? I'll pay you back $100 every other day for 2 weeks. Sound cool?"
I have a feeling the guy is trolling.
My favorite thread of all time. Always gets me a laugh
I love finding and reading these classic threads again.
Unfuckinbelievable!
Body building forums were really weird places, back around 2002, up until maybe 2004 when MySpace started to explode, and then, eventually Facebook.
I remember encountering at least one, and the passages I read tended to brush up against a sort of dimwitted infantile fan fiction, mixing bizarre fantasies with near-zero understanding of human anatomy and physiology.
One particular discussion that sticks out in my mind was something akin to a 12 year-old's musings (and it might, very well, have been some little kid), about how protein travels from a dinner plate all the way into the muscles, and it was tempting to believe one person was sock puppeting the whole thread, pretending to carry multiple sides of the conversation, as a sort of blend of creative writing and performance art, but just based on the voice and tone of the various replies, it really did seem like some sort of group fantasy role playing session.
This was before I knew the true depth and breadth of furry subculture, and eventually, once I became more familiarized with such facts of life, and developed an understanding of the intersection of interests between fan fiction and fur suit fetishists, I surmized that on some level, what had been going on with all those body building forums was that a subset of the fur suit/fan fiction subculture had begun to fantasize collectively about bulging human muscles and oiled up skin, as if it were a form of fur suit, and then took to authoring concept pieces, to role play within that context.
In the same way that ASMR is something akin to an alt-kink version of phone sex, this sort of thing seemed to be likened to alt-cybering in an obscure sub-genre of fur kink.
Anyway, that was the weird shit I remember bumping into back then. Now I suspect it's all rolled into the general morasse of Facebook flotsam, diluted and washed out. Maybe it's better that way... Maybe.
I remember encountering at least one, and the passages I read tended to brush up against a sort of dimwitted infantile fan fiction, mixing bizarre fantasies with near-zero understanding of human anatomy and physiology.
One particular discussion that sticks out in my mind was something akin to a 12 year-old's musings (and it might, very well, have been some little kid), about how protein travels from a dinner plate all the way into the muscles, and it was tempting to believe one person was sock puppeting the whole thread, pretending to carry multiple sides of the conversation, as a sort of blend of creative writing and performance art, but just based on the voice and tone of the various replies, it really did seem like some sort of group fantasy role playing session.
This was before I knew the true depth and breadth of furry subculture, and eventually, once I became more familiarized with such facts of life, and developed an understanding of the intersection of interests between fan fiction and fur suit fetishists, I surmized that on some level, what had been going on with all those body building forums was that a subset of the fur suit/fan fiction subculture had begun to fantasize collectively about bulging human muscles and oiled up skin, as if it were a form of fur suit, and then took to authoring concept pieces, to role play within that context.
In the same way that ASMR is something akin to an alt-kink version of phone sex, this sort of thing seemed to be likened to alt-cybering in an obscure sub-genre of fur kink.
Anyway, that was the weird shit I remember bumping into back then. Now I suspect it's all rolled into the general morasse of Facebook flotsam, diluted and washed out. Maybe it's better that way... Maybe.
It doesn't have to be a furry thing to be a fetish thing.
Why was this marked dead? It doesn't seem off-topic or anything.
Bodybuildingforum is one of the most entertaining and influential places on the internet. I honestly believe it to be on par with 4chan in scope of "internet cultural influence"
It's always weird to see articles like this talking about traditional forum sites as if no one uses them anymore.
Maybe it will die out just like livejournal
> The articles used to have automatic comments sections after each, but the members were such know-it-alls that the site, despite paying staff very well, had difficulty retaining authors. Eventually, that particular place nuked its comments because these members were just the worst type of internet experts, and authors didn’t want their serious work to be followed by a thousand forum comments that begin with ‘well actually.’”
Well actually, author-marketers didn’t like paying money for an “article” only to get trashed for it.
And site operators didn’t want “authors” to realize their “serious” product placements caused a negative impression.
Well actually, author-marketers didn’t like paying money for an “article” only to get trashed for it.
And site operators didn’t want “authors” to realize their “serious” product placements caused a negative impression.
Elliot Rodger posted on the Misc subforum. In retrospect, reading his posts is like a morbid dark comedy - the lack of social awareness, the insecurity, all shone through to the point of feeling insincere. It could very well have been a troll, there was no way to know. It's no wonder he barely aroused alarm despite posting his ideologies on many a public forum including Youtube. He indirectly mentions posting on Misc in his manifesto, and how he ultimately failed to reach his fitness goals and the subsequent insecurities. I can't help but wonder if people like him would be or have been better off without ever coming across communities like BB forums. There's little to glorify, it's not a part of internet "culture" to look fondly back on.
I actually posted in one of his threads. The sad part is I and I’m sure 99% of miscers were convinced it was a troll post.
The stuff he wrote was so unbelievable that it seems to be designed to trigger some members. I specifically remember a post where he bragged about having a bmw and still had no luck with girls and he saw <some other race> in a Honda with a pretty girl and he couldn’t believe it.
It was so outlandish it was impossible to take seriously.
The stuff he wrote was so unbelievable that it seems to be designed to trigger some members. I specifically remember a post where he bragged about having a bmw and still had no luck with girls and he saw <some other race> in a Honda with a pretty girl and he couldn’t believe it.
It was so outlandish it was impossible to take seriously.
I didn't know who Elliot Rodger was, so for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings
[deleted]
Any miscers checking in?
this article was a blast for the past lol. I used to post there, i honestly doubt that most of misc even went to a gym. I stopped after I got into some political argument with some regular and he negged my account by 1000s and it ended up being pointless posting there, went to reddit for dumb offtopic stuff.
Was funny to see this come up on HN. I still love the Misc to this day. Changed my life
in.gif
Admitting to being a miscer might put you on privately run HN blacklists.
Thats next level echochamber. Do people actually do this?
Yup, even custom css to help point out who you should downvote.
That's really interesting. Can you point to a github repo or chrome extension or something?
These groups tend to be invite only and don’t publicly post this code as it reveals usernames of people on blacklists, but if you search around discord channels or some subreddits you might find them.
The 90s also had the Weights mailing list. It was moderated so always a pretty respectful place but the advent of web based forums ended it.
Time is relative?
Jeez. No comments about tuna shakes?
:-)
:-)
A really intriguing story related to bodybuilding is the story of DatBTrue.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/sports/doping-thomas-mann...
He convinced a lot of people that he was an expert at all things science despite using an incredibly immature writing style. It turns out he was a lawyer!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/sports/doping-thomas-mann...
He convinced a lot of people that he was an expert at all things science despite using an incredibly immature writing style. It turns out he was a lawyer!
Tangentially related but, Zyzz was also a hugely popular member of the BB forum. He was known as having one of the most desirable physiques and had a big personality (he frequently posted videos of himself at the club).
It was then discovered he was using steroids, which caused some of the community to hate him. He got booked for a reality show, but then died due to an undiagnosed heart defect.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/zyzz
It was then discovered he was using steroids, which caused some of the community to hate him. He got booked for a reality show, but then died due to an undiagnosed heart defect.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/zyzz
It wasn't discovered he was using steroids this was common knowledge from day 1
not natty bro
not natty bro
You’re confusing bb.com with DatBTrue. Zyzz was not a member of the latter
Yeah, I could have worded that better. I know Zyzz was on bb.com only (well, and 4chan).
>He convinced a lot of people that he was an expert at all things science despite using an incredibly immature writing style
I find this hard to believe considering the many years I spent on his forum, and especially in comparison to many of the advice touted by gurus from other hubs.
One excerpt:
-11th November 2012, 11:57 PM -How a dose of GHRP-2 affects a change in GH - CHARTED OUT
"Sometimes people seem to get confused... When you use a GHRP or Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP two things happen. One the GHRP or Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP enters the blood stream and slowly disappears from the blood stream. But what it does (by binding to cells in the pituitary) is increase the appearance of GH in the bloodstream.
So GHRP or Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP are involved in a two-step move that modulates the appearance of GH. The two-step dance is nicely graphed out for us in Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Growth Hormone-Releasing Peptide-2: A Phase I Study in Children, Catherine Pihoker, Gregory L. Kearns, Daniel French, And Cyril Y. Bowers, Clin Endocrinol Metab 83: 1168–1172, 1998
https://imgur.com/Rce8byc
In words, you can see GH peak in the blood stream at 30 minutes. This understanding you are probably familiar with. You can see that the initial drop in GHRP-2 corresponds to the GH rise. This disappearance primarily comes from GHRP-2 being taken up into the pituitary. An analogy would be 100 people on the street, 30 minutes later 70 of them have opened doors to houses on the street and entered. There are still 100 people, but only 30 left on the street with 70 in the houses. At the 30 minute mark GHRP-2 reflects the lesson of this analogy.
After 30 minutes there may be more binding opportunities for GHRP-2 in serum and so some may also be taken up but most will be cleared over the next 1.5 hours.
What is responsible for GH's disappearance from serum? Well to use the people/street analogy, it too begins to open doors and get off the serum street and bind to cells. This continues to take place over the next hour.
So to put this two step into context, both GHRP-2 & GH follow the same pattern. They appear in serum and then disappear because they have found their respective doors. However GHRP-2 steps out on the street 30 minutes earlier then GH which is not awoken until GHRP-2 wakes it up.
GH will then bind to receptors from approximately 30 minute post-injection to 90 minutes post injection."
This is one small sample. There was a wealth of information lost when the forum was taken down.
I find this hard to believe considering the many years I spent on his forum, and especially in comparison to many of the advice touted by gurus from other hubs.
One excerpt:
-11th November 2012, 11:57 PM -How a dose of GHRP-2 affects a change in GH - CHARTED OUT
"Sometimes people seem to get confused... When you use a GHRP or Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP two things happen. One the GHRP or Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP enters the blood stream and slowly disappears from the blood stream. But what it does (by binding to cells in the pituitary) is increase the appearance of GH in the bloodstream.
So GHRP or Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP are involved in a two-step move that modulates the appearance of GH. The two-step dance is nicely graphed out for us in Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Growth Hormone-Releasing Peptide-2: A Phase I Study in Children, Catherine Pihoker, Gregory L. Kearns, Daniel French, And Cyril Y. Bowers, Clin Endocrinol Metab 83: 1168–1172, 1998
https://imgur.com/Rce8byc
In words, you can see GH peak in the blood stream at 30 minutes. This understanding you are probably familiar with. You can see that the initial drop in GHRP-2 corresponds to the GH rise. This disappearance primarily comes from GHRP-2 being taken up into the pituitary. An analogy would be 100 people on the street, 30 minutes later 70 of them have opened doors to houses on the street and entered. There are still 100 people, but only 30 left on the street with 70 in the houses. At the 30 minute mark GHRP-2 reflects the lesson of this analogy.
After 30 minutes there may be more binding opportunities for GHRP-2 in serum and so some may also be taken up but most will be cleared over the next 1.5 hours.
What is responsible for GH's disappearance from serum? Well to use the people/street analogy, it too begins to open doors and get off the serum street and bind to cells. This continues to take place over the next hour.
So to put this two step into context, both GHRP-2 & GH follow the same pattern. They appear in serum and then disappear because they have found their respective doors. However GHRP-2 steps out on the street 30 minutes earlier then GH which is not awoken until GHRP-2 wakes it up.
GH will then bind to receptors from approximately 30 minute post-injection to 90 minutes post injection."
This is one small sample. There was a wealth of information lost when the forum was taken down.
He was a fraud that put his parents in legal peril with his scam.
He claimed "Tom" synthesized the compounds in America when in reality they were sourced from China. He doesn't have the required skill to test these compounds for purity and heavy metals. He put many people at risk for financial gain.
He claimed "Tom" synthesized the compounds in America when in reality they were sourced from China. He doesn't have the required skill to test these compounds for purity and heavy metals. He put many people at risk for financial gain.
What we can both agree on is that Dat manipulated people from his position in order to benefit himself financially. Is this normal within the Bodybuilding community? I would say yes — you would be hard pressed to find any experienced bodybuilder or powerlifter who hadn't come across deceiving sellers and figures who push their own agenda. They are, after all, participating in an illegal market where substances (such as Peptides) are either outright banned or within a grey area.
However, what made Dat and his forum unique was their focus on health and wellness. Bodybuilding was one small area that could benefit (in limited cases) from the use of peptides.
>He was a fraud that put his parents in legal peril with his scam.
I am not arguing that he was ethical. I am simply stating that the information gathered over time in the forum was invaluable. Many people contributed their knowledge and expertise on a variety of subjects to lengthy discussions. I would argue that readers of HN would find a forum like this very intriguing and worthwhile.
Stating that he was a fraud does not invalidate the knowledge he and others shared.
>He put many people at risk for financial gain.
This is partially correct. Let's look at "...for financial gain":
From his arrest and the investigation, in fact, he received immunity (IIRC) and likely gave away his list of buyers which included Olympic athletes and major sports stars (a good reference for the NYT article is actually an Al Jazeera documentary on sports doping: see https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/the-dark-side.html). In the coming years we may learn more about some of his buyers.
Now, for the first part of your statement:
>He put many people at risk
Dat did not push peptides onto any participants on his forum. Many anecdotes (and from my own experience as well) show that Dat actually recommended members NOT to use peptides for many of their illnesses or other troubles. The application of peptides falls into a small band of uses: muscle rejuvenation and recovery; stimulating GH release in an older age; maximizing IGF-1 and cellular swelling for optimal hypertrophy (and a few other applications). Peptides are not a miracle cure and do not provide the same benefits as other PEDs.
Practitioners who used peptides knew fully well what the risk of application was. Nothing was peddled as completely safe and harmless; people were, after all, injecting exotic compounds into their body without proper medical supervision.
People who used peptides and other PEDs did so out of their own motivation and will, and knew fully-well what the risks involved were.
However, what made Dat and his forum unique was their focus on health and wellness. Bodybuilding was one small area that could benefit (in limited cases) from the use of peptides.
>He was a fraud that put his parents in legal peril with his scam.
I am not arguing that he was ethical. I am simply stating that the information gathered over time in the forum was invaluable. Many people contributed their knowledge and expertise on a variety of subjects to lengthy discussions. I would argue that readers of HN would find a forum like this very intriguing and worthwhile.
Stating that he was a fraud does not invalidate the knowledge he and others shared.
>He put many people at risk for financial gain.
This is partially correct. Let's look at "...for financial gain":
From his arrest and the investigation, in fact, he received immunity (IIRC) and likely gave away his list of buyers which included Olympic athletes and major sports stars (a good reference for the NYT article is actually an Al Jazeera documentary on sports doping: see https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/the-dark-side.html). In the coming years we may learn more about some of his buyers.
Now, for the first part of your statement:
>He put many people at risk
Dat did not push peptides onto any participants on his forum. Many anecdotes (and from my own experience as well) show that Dat actually recommended members NOT to use peptides for many of their illnesses or other troubles. The application of peptides falls into a small band of uses: muscle rejuvenation and recovery; stimulating GH release in an older age; maximizing IGF-1 and cellular swelling for optimal hypertrophy (and a few other applications). Peptides are not a miracle cure and do not provide the same benefits as other PEDs.
Practitioners who used peptides knew fully well what the risk of application was. Nothing was peddled as completely safe and harmless; people were, after all, injecting exotic compounds into their body without proper medical supervision.
People who used peptides and other PEDs did so out of their own motivation and will, and knew fully-well what the risks involved were.
> He convinced a lot of people that he was an expert at all things science despite using an incredibly immature writing style
I skimmed the article, but couldn't find examples or mention of his writing style.
I skimmed the article, but couldn't find examples or mention of his writing style.
He ran an internet forum with a cult following. It shutdown because:
> Thirteen months ago I was diagnosed with a very serious health issue. The prognosis is poor.
That was obviously a lie.
> Thirteen months ago I was diagnosed with a very serious health issue. The prognosis is poor.
That was obviously a lie.
I am aware. But back to my initial comment:
Where are the examples of his immature writing style that convinced people of his expert knowledge in all things science?
Where are the examples of his immature writing style that convinced people of his expert knowledge in all things science?
There may be a few ripped pages of his forum floating around. His forum was members only. There won't be anything on archive.org.
I was a member of his forum and read his posts from time to time out of curiosity.
The compounds he sold through his alias "Tom" were very vanilla, most of which were available from reputable companies like Ceretropic.
I was a member of his forum and read his posts from time to time out of curiosity.
The compounds he sold through his alias "Tom" were very vanilla, most of which were available from reputable companies like Ceretropic.
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